AmiWest 2017 clarifications

[ferrellsl]

I guess I just didn't notice my MacBook Pro booted in 6 seconds from cold and I have Chrome up and running in under 10 seconds.

Listen, all of us here know time has moved on. My point is that somebody is trying their best to create a portable Amiga running the latest AmigaOS. If some people want to point and laugh that is their business but that kind of stuff doesn't belong in this thread.

I am looking forward to my new A1222 laptop and I don't care if my peers laugh or not.

I look forward to it as well, but let's call it what it is....as the saying goes, you can put lipstick on a pig and you still have a pig.

Shoe-horning a Tabor into a small box doesn't make it a laptop....it's a Tabor in a small box.

People outside the NG Amiga community who might be interested in an Amiga laptop are only going to be annoyed when they search for an Amiga "laptop" only to find a Tabor crammed in a small box with no WiFi and battery life measured in minutes instead of hours and it's as thick as a pizza box.

[Hans_]

I'll say more later, but just a few quick comments...

Firstly, yes, I have a 90 degree PCIe riser. It's not featured in the video because I don't have a computer case where the riser can be used. Plus, it was an electronics test, so physical layout wasn't important.

...

People outside the NG Amiga community who might be interested in an Amiga laptop are only going to be annoyed when they search for an Amiga "laptop" only to find a Tabor crammed in a small box with no WiFi and battery life measured in minutes instead of hours and it's as thick as a pizza box.

It's always interesting to see what people decide is the "definition" of something. Perhaps I should run a survey to see just how big a box I can get away with. ;-)

I'm calling it a laptop because I'm following the typical laptop design: motherboard, batteries & keyboard in the base, and a flip-up screen. That differs quite substantially from what you get when you search for luggable on Google.

Regarding battery life, I have a 93 WH battery pack, and measured 28W power usage with the CPU & GPU maxed out as much as possible. So it's good for a few hours at least, and that's without any dynamic power management. I could increase the battery capacity, but then it would exceed the max allowed on a plane.

For wifi I'm currently going to use a tiny wifi router that works in client mode. There are nicer options out there, but the wifi-router eliminates the need to write drivers, which makes getting the first prototype done easier.

Obviously, this "laptop" kit won't be for everyone. If you're someone who likes this kind of stuff, then I encourage you to sign up to the mailing list (here). If not, then perhaps A.L.I.C.E. would be more to your taste (it looked pretty neat at AmiWest).

Hans

[Spectre660]

That is quite unfortunate .

I don't know of anybody looking into this problem at the moment.

[Hans_]

That is quite unfortunate .

From what I heard, some CMI8738 sound cards have a serious bug on their PCI-to-PCIe bridge chip. It generally isn't a problem on true PCI systems, but causes trouble when there's a PCIe to PCI bridge in-between (e.g., like on the X5000).

There are CMI8738 cards with a fixed bridge chip, but it's impossible to know ahead of time which one you'll get. So, basically a lottery.

I don't think that trying to work around this issue is worth it. It would be far better to find a genuine PCIe sound card and write drivers for that.

Hans

[Pgovotsos]

I don't think that trying to work around this issue is worth it. It would be far better to find a genuine PCIe sound card and write drivers for that.

Hans

This is one of those times when I really wish this forum had a Thanks, thumbs up, or +1 button.

Hans, the above is for you. Below is not. It's venting frustration at A-eon, Hyperion, AmigaKit that your comment brought back to the surface.

Danger Will Robinson, Danger! Major rantage ahead!

Come on, the motherboards have been in hand for years. There are drivers for all components for the "alternate" operating systems. How about some love for the PRIMARY operating system?

I can't write driver code worth a hoot, but is it REALLY that hard? Took years for everything on board the X1000 to be supported. I was hoping that moving stuff off the motherboard to cards would make it easier since we already have drivers that work. Guess not.

Hasn't A-eon, Hyperion and / or AmigaKit learned any lessons from the X1000 experience? Guess not. I've got a lot of money and time tied up in 2 X1000s and 2 X5000s. That's a lot of money sitting around, spent based on a lot of promises that have not been delivered on - after years.

Lets quit mucking around with experimental file systems that still have bugs, incomplete SATA drivers that still barely provide the minimum to mount 2 drives, pushing useless Xena that still can't do anything but blink some lights on a project board that doesn't even physically fit in all the systems. The list of "lets quit"s goes on and on.

Would I love to see a new ImageFX or a functioning Libre Office? Darn tootin' but I want to see 100% functional hardware before diluting what few development resources there are in Amiga land on "extras". There's other software that can get the work done for now.

Cut the garbage and get core components 100% supported before doing anything else! I don't care who is responsible for what hasn't happened. I don't care where the fingers get pointed. The fingers have got to come out of someone's bum and start working.

How long are we supposed to keep forking over money on the promises of "it's coming, it's coming"? There's been an awful lot of patience being expended, and HAS been expended. WHEN is there going to be some delivery? When is a system going to be completed before rushing on to another one. When is ANYTHING going to get delivered within 5 years of promised? Heck, 5 years would be a major improvement over the "never" time frame currently in place on so many issues.

When will the party stop going on and just flipping get here? I swear, some days it's enough to make me want to just throw it all away.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled peaceful programming

[Spectre660]

If you saw my first post on the subject  in this thread you will see that there are quite a few results with different models of cards that are not consistent.
the buggy bridge chip works perfectly with a different PCIEx1 sound card (Envyht24) and its driver and also some PCI CMI878 cards (no bridge chip) work perfectly while other PCI versions of the the CMI8738 (no bridge chip) do not .
The CMI8738 versions exist currently in good quantity so it may be worth having thorough look at the driver .
This is one area that may be diminishing the X5000 experience among new users as some are receiving their systems with problem versions of the CMI8738 cards.
 

From what I heard, some CMI8738 sound cards have a serious bug on their PCI-to-PCIe bridge chip. It generally isn't a problem on true PCI systems, but causes trouble when there's a PCIe to PCI bridge in-between (e.g., like on the X5000).

There are CMI8738 cards with a fixed bridge chip, but it's impossible to know ahead of time which one you'll get. So, basically a lottery.

I don't think that trying to work around this issue is worth it. It would be far better to find a genuine PCIe sound card and write drivers for that.

Hans

[Hans_]

If you saw my first post on the subject  in this thread you will see that there are quite a few results with different models of cards that are not consistent.
the buggy bridge chip works perfectly with a different PCIEx1 sound card (Envyht24) and its driver and also some PCI CMI878 cards (no bridge chip) work perfectly while other PCI versions of the the CMI8738 (no bridge chip) do not .
The CMI8738 versions exist currently in good quantity so it may be worth having thorough look at the driver .

Well, I'm just repeating what I've heard. That PCIe bridge chip's IRQ bug is described as "fatal" with "no useful OS workarounds possible." Perhaps your Envyht24 is using a newer revision of that bridge chip, or maybe you're just very lucky.

I can't comment on any other issues.

This is one area that may be diminishing the X5000 experience among new users as some are receiving their systems with problem versions of the CMI8738 cards.

Now that everyone is aware of the issue, vendors can choose a different card that's known to work.

Hans

[Spectre660]

It actually does uses the version 1. See the Ranger Screen grabs from the post below.
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3625&start=40#p41538

Well, I'm just repeating what I've heard. That PCIe bridge chip's IRQ bug is described as "fatal" with "no useful OS workarounds possible." Perhaps your Envyht24 is using a newer revision of that bridge chip, or maybe you're just very lucky.

I can't comment on any other issues.



Now that everyone is aware of the issue, vendors can choose a different card that's known to work.

Hans

[Iggy]

If you saw my first post on the subject  in this thread you will see that there are quite a few results with different models of cards that are not consistent.
the buggy bridge chip works perfectly with a different PCIEx1 sound card (Envyht24) and its driver and also some PCI CMI878 cards (no bridge chip) work perfectly while other PCI versions of the the CMI8738 (no bridge chip) do not .
The CMI8738 versions exist currently in good quantity so it may be worth having thorough look at the driver .
This is one area that may be diminishing the X5000 experience among new users as some are receiving their systems with problem versions of the CMI8738 cards.

Actually, it gets weirder than that, since ALL PCI cards are working through a bridge chip (the PCI-PCI-E bridge chip on board the X5000).

You would think the PCI-E cards would work better, BUT the CMI8738 is a PCI component, so using it you're again...using a bridge chip, but this time on the sound card.
It might be less problematic if Aeon had chosen a sound card that featured a native PCI-E component.

In any case, I've got a VIA Envy24 card sitting around waiting for use (its the better of the two solutions anyway).

[Spectre660]

As seen with Acill's soundblaster with the Amiwest MorphOS demo things can get be dodgy on the MorphOS side too .
Interestingly with my X5000 my PCI CMI8738 works with no problems under AmigaOS 4.1FE  but causes a freeze under Linux if used with full screen video.
The issue is to get a working solution for which the availability of the sound cards does not dry up .

It may take a third party approach like the RadeonHD driver to keep up though unless there is a move to Radeon HD audio or USB sound cards .

[Iggy]

As seen with Acill's soundblaster with the Amiwest MorphOS demo things can get be dodgy on the MorphOS side too .
Interestingly with my X5000 my PCI CMI8738 works with no problems under AmigaOS 4.1FE  but causes a freeze under Linux if used with full screen video.
The issue is to get a working solution for which the availability of the sound cards does not dry up .

It may take a third party approach like the RadeonHD driver to keep up though unless there is a move to Radeon HD audio or USB sound cards .

Yeah, but again, there we're dealing with a PCI card being driven via a bridge component.
Although you would have thought legacy drivers like the SB Live would have been tested, then again the MorphOS ISO Paul was provided was a beta.

Odd, your freeze up under Linux, but I think I'm just going to avoid CMI, at least for the time being.

In any case, as you've pointed out on other forums, having multiple OS' on the X5000 will make things interesting.

That's why its going to become my PPC system of choice, after all, I have no use for OSX, but the other three possibilities...this intrigues me.

[Hans_]

It actually does uses the version 1. See the Ranger Screen grabs from the post below.
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3625&start=40#p41538

Assuming that they correctly updated the revision register between chip revisions... (stuff like this is so easy to forget).

Hans

[Spectre660]

The chips seem to have have markings that indicate the versions.
My version 1's end with 1B1
My version 3 ends with 1B2

Assuming that they correctly updated the revision register between chip revisions... (stuff like this is so easy to forget).

Hans

[Spectre660]

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3846&start=40#p42936

[Spectre660]

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39511&forum=14#744313

From what I heard, some CMI8738 sound cards have a serious bug on their PCI-to-PCIe bridge chip. It generally isn't a problem on true PCI systems, but causes trouble when there's a PCIe to PCI bridge in-between (e.g., like on the X5000).

There are CMI8738 cards with a fixed bridge chip, but it's impossible to know ahead of time which one you'll get. So, basically a lottery.

I don't think that trying to work around this issue is worth it. It would be far better to find a genuine PCIe sound card and write drivers for that.

Hans