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Offline Jupp3Topic starter

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New Amiga compatible joypads
« on: December 13, 2009, 05:13:57 PM »
Hi,

A while ago I happened to stumble upon new Sega Megadrive joypads from Dealextreme, and a while ago, I finally got the package. Actually they are made for "Megadrive emulator inside joypad" (to use as second controller), but apparently the connector and pinout is the same as in the original controller. Which, of course, also means it works on Amiga straight away.

NOTE: If you are going to use these on Amiga (or any other non-smd system with similar connector), it's probably a good idea to remove the single muxer chip, and do some rewiring. I heard somewhere, that certain button combinations might end up putting 5V on wrong (on Amiga) pin or something... Also, it's not easy to convert these to fully functional CD32 pads, so don't ask me "how?" :-) you should be able to get 2-3 buttons working easily though.

The controllers are quite a bit smaller than I had expected, but at $4.55 you might not be able to buy D9 connector and cable (and would have to solder it, and it would look worse) so could be useful to repair joysticks with broken cables aswell. The directional pad is higher-than-usual (you actually have to move it to direction, rather than just press), and it's not possible to press f.ex. left and right simultaneously (diagonals work, of course). Especially the 3 lower buttons feel better than I had expected. All 9 cables are connected to the circuit board, so should be  convertible to 2-button MSX pad aswell (one friend of mine pointed out that the "2nd button on MSX" pin isn't always connected).

Then some pictures:

The pads look like this.
Size comparison with Tac-2 and Competition Pro.
Closeup on what's inside.

Haven't had time to do any proper experimenting yet, does anyone have any documentation on adding autofire? Would be nice to add it to those extra buttons...  :-D

Originally posted here: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30240&forum=25&0

-EDIT-
I heard there's already a thread about these, but I'll leave this here anyway. As there are pics, for those who might be interested in seeing them.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 05:27:24 PM by Jupp3 »
 

Offline Cammy

Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 06:39:36 PM »
Thanks for sharing all this information about these pads, I've been waiting for someone to receive some and talk about them. Although there was another thread about these pads already, no one had talked about actually having one yet, so it was all full of speculation.

Now we need to turn the thread into a guide on how to modify these pads to work as 3-button pads, how to add/change the functions of the buttons, and how to prevent them from sending a 5V signal if they do.
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Offline matthey

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Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 07:58:02 PM »
Quote from: Cammy;533719

Now we need to turn the thread into a guide on how to modify these pads to work as 3-button pads, how to add/change the functions of the buttons, and how to prevent them from sending a 5V signal if they do.


The modification should be the same as other 6 button Genesis pads...

Quote from: matthey;446248
I have used unmodified Genesis pads without problems. B is the normal button and C works on some Amiga games. A can be made to work by swapping pins/lines 5 & 7...

http://psygnosisamiga.free.fr/games/hiredguns/instructions2.pdf

The ADoom docs also suggest putting a 470 ohm resistor in...

"A Sega Genesis controller may be use on the Amiga as long
as you swap lines 5 & 7, and put a 470 ohm resistor
between lines 5 & 7."

This allows a 6 button Genesis control pad to function on the Amiga.


The original thread...

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40796&highlight=Genesis+button
 

Offline Cammy

Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 01:06:47 AM »
Telling us that doing a modification on this controller being the same as on a Sega controller is pretty obvious, and we already knew that. The point of bringing up the subject was so that we can discuss how to do it, and take photos so anyone else can follow the guide. The modification mentioned in Hired Guns only works in Hired Guns and ADoom. I think it would be far more useful to people to learn how to turn the A button into an UP button for use in platform and racing games that require you to press that direction on a joystick.

Here's the original thread discussing these control pads - http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50210
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 01:12:30 AM by Cammy »
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A600 030@30Mhz/2MB+64MB/RTC/IDE-CF+4GB/Subway USB/S-Video/PCMCIA NIC/USB Numeric Keypad+Hub+Mouse+Control Pad
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Offline Rebel-CD32

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Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 07:20:55 AM »
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. I ordered a few of these pads for myself a few weeks ago but they still haven't arrived. The anticipation is killing me, I want to get in and try modifying them straight away, and I'm almost tempted to butcher my original Sega 6-button pad just to try some of these ideas.

I've read through the Hired Guns and ADoom manuals on the subject of modifying Sega pads to use more buttons. Hired Guns allows you to use the A, B, C and Start buttons. ADoom definitely supports X, Y, Z and Mode as well, according to the docs:

---
The button mapping is as follows:
Start = Space (Action)
A      = Strafe Right
B      = Fire
C      = Strafe Left
On the 6 button controller you also get
Mode = Esc (Menu)
X      = Return (Enter/Show last message)
Y      = Shift (Fast/Run)
Z       = Tab (Map on/off)

A Sega Genesis controller may be use on the Amiga as long
as you swap lines 5 & 7, and put a 470 ohm resistor
between lines 5 & 7.
---

I had a look at the pinouts of the Amiga and MegaDrive controllers, and the main difference is the +5V on the MegaDrive is on Pin 5 and on the Amiga it's on Pin 7. Swapping these around, (and adding a resistor for safety I guess) puts the +5V in the same place, allowing the extra buttons to be used if the software is looking for them, similar to how lowlevel.library understands the extra buttons on a CD32 pad. Unfortunately none of the data is the same between the MegaDrive and CD32 buttons, so doing this simple mod won't let you use any of the buttons (other than B) on a MegaDrive pad for CD32 games or games that need a CD32 pad. I don't know if this would fix the problem with the C button activating all CD32 buttons at the same time (as they do without modification), but it certainly wouldn't act as a Blue button. It would still work as a 2-button controller for all games that use those, and it would now let you use the A and Start buttons in Hired Guns and Flashback. In ADoom, all the buttons will work.

However... I don't think it's important that our modified controllers now allow you to do something that you can do with the keyboard anyway in a single game. It's cool, but it's not necessarily useful when it comes to using these controllers for all other Amiga games.

So what I propose for the ultimate Sega 6-button pad modification, to please as many people as possible, is to add this functionality so Hired Guns, Flashback and ADoom can use buttons A, B, C, and Start, but we map the UP direction to the X button, and turn Y and Z into turbofire versions of B and C. This would still let you strafe, fire, and open doors in ADoom, which are the important controls. But for all other Amiga games, especially platform games and racing games we would have a jump/accelerate button on X, which isn't uncomfortable to use with B and C, and we'd have useful rapidfire above the two regular firebuttons. Button A and Start (and Mode if you have a different brand of Sega 6 button pad than the DealExtreme one) wouldn't function for anything in any games except Hired Guns, Flashback and ADoom, or any game that's programmed from now on to take advantage of a modified Sega pad. The source code on how to read the pads is available with ADoom, so I'd recommend anyone still writing games for Amiga to add this functionality to their games.

Adding turbofire to buttons Y and Z might be tricky, but not impossible. There are instructions on adding a rapid fire circuit in a few Amiga magazines, and on Aminet here http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/autofire but I don't know how to follow that myself. I'm going to have a go at it anyway, but if someone who has actually soldered something before (unlike me) wants to have a go and take some photos and write up their results, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.
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Offline Methuselas

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Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 08:47:56 AM »
Could a driver be written  that would allow use of  all the buttons? If  someone  was willing to donate me one, I'd do the mod,  take all the necessary  photos and what not for the guide and then donate it to someone with coding experience to write a universal driver so everyone could use it, plug and play.

Hell, send me a pad along with money to cover the return shipping and the resistor and I'll set anyone up with a new joypad
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Offline Rebel-CD32

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Re: New Amiga compatible joypads
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 04:16:09 PM »
Someone could write a driver that maps the Sega buttons to the CD32 buttons by patching lowlevel.device, I guess. If Poseidon and Anaiis can do it with USB control pads, I don't see why it'd be hard to do it with a 9-pin pad. The source code for reading all of the buttons should be with the ADOOM sources (although I haven't confirmed it), so understanding the extra button presses won't be hard.

The only problem with using a control pad with a driver like this is that it will only work with system-friendly games, not floppy games or WHDLoad games.

And to be honest, I think it would cost someone more for postage to send you one of these control pads than it would to simply purchase one from the website and have it delivered free of charge for $4.55.

On that note, I'll also leave you guys with a link to a better quality control pad, for those with the extra cash to spend. These already have a Turbo Fire option, so there'd be no need to add one. http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Button-controller-pad-Atari-2600-Amiga-CD32-C64-NEW_W0QQitemZ150395444289QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_VintageComputing_RL?hash=item2304445c41
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