Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: bloodline on June 05, 2005, 10:14:38 AM
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The new 12" Powerbook G4 with a 1.5Ghz CPU and a 60gig HD might fill my needs...
2 large obstacles are present. Firstly, no Mac version of Adobe Audition... But at a push I could cope with Logic Audio 7 (despite it costing 3 times as much...).
Secondly, ONE MOUSE BUTTON!!!!... I spent a couple of hours at an apple store yesterday and grew to hate the limitation with much passion.
Anyway I need to run this thing away from a power source... for extended periods... while powering a 20Watt audio interface from the firewire...
could anyone give me an idea of what duration I might get from a full charge?
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"ONE MOUSE BUTTON!!!!"
I have my mac on my KVM via a usb->ps2 adapter and I was suprised that both mousebuttons function as they would in windows, i.e left mouse does clicky stuff and right brings up menus etc, and the scroll wheel works too.
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I have a Logitech 6 button USB mouse for my Mac. OSX recognises the two normal buttons and the scroll wheel automatically and will recognise the other, fully configurable buttons if the supplied software is installed. Why Apple insist on supplying just a single button mouse is beyond me. It seems like suicide marketing as I am sure many prospective customers are not aware that Macs are fully compatible with normal mice.
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@Bloodline.
Dunno if this helps about the power useage,
Got a 14" 1.3Ghz G4 iBook here with 512mb ram, just done a full charge and it reckons it has 6h 26 mins left. Although that's just laying here in bed typing a reply, under "normal" use I get 4-5 hours.
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Doobrey wrote:
@Bloodline.
Dunno if this helps about the power useage,
Got a 14" 1.3Ghz G4 iBook here with 512mb ram, just done a full charge and it reckons it has 6h 26 mins left. Although that's just laying here in bed typing a reply, under "normal" use I get 4-5 hours.
Well, if I can get 2 hours of use then I'm happy... I'm gonna take my Audio interface down to the apple store and see if they'll let me run some tests...
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lorddef wrote:
"ONE MOUSE BUTTON!!!!"
I have my mac on my KVM via a usb->ps2 adapter and I was suprised that both mousebuttons function as they would in windows, i.e left mouse does clicky stuff and right brings up menus etc, and the scroll wheel works too.
yup, that's good to know, I have nice little Logitech (2 button + scroll wheel) USB mouse here that I was hoping to use with it.
The problem is that hardly any apps take advantage of two mouse buttons, as Apple don't provide them as standard.
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I have a mac, makes for a great doorstop!
Whatever happened to the P.A.W.S. 1200 anyway? :-D
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The new 12" Powerbook G4 with a 1.5Ghz CPU and a 60gig HD might fill my needs..
Dont you know it is dead? See here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16132). :-D Sell it while it is still worth of something ;-)
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itix wrote:
The new 12" Powerbook G4 with a 1.5Ghz CPU and a 60gig HD might fill my needs..
Dont you know it is dead? See here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16132). :-D Sell it while it is still worth of something ;-)
:lol:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
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Blood, why now a powerbook unless your adding to your computer museum? :-?
Dammy
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bloodline wrote:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
I get this with firefox on OSX a lot :-D
Typically you can have an application open with no windows presently open or if some are, they may be minimised and languishing around near the trashcan on the dock.
You can also use apple tab in an analogous way to alt tab under windows. If you are using OSX 10.3, you can also sometimes use the expose feature to find windows that have sneakily crept out of sight.
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dammy wrote:
Blood, why now a powerbook unless your adding to your computer museum? :-?
Dammy
My current laptop just doesn't give enough time on it's batteries, doesn't have a 6wire firewire and it gets much too hot... it's also too big and heavy to be a decent portable... also it has a fan intake on the underside of the unit which means that you can't put it on uneven surfaces...
The Powerbook G4 12" has none of those issues. I also noticed that the PowerBook runs Logic audio really well.
-Edit- Plus I really like the look of the Powerbook (I always have).
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Karlos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
I get this with firefox on OSX a lot :-D
Typically you can have an application open with no windows presently open or if some are, they may be minimised and languishing around near the trashcan on the dock.
You can also use apple tab in an analogous way to alt tab under windows. If you are using OSX 10.3, you can also sometimes use the expose feature to find windows that have sneakily crept out of sight.
Gah.. OSX is a PITA...
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bloodline wrote:
Karlos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
I get this with firefox on OSX a lot :-D
Typically you can have an application open with no windows presently open or if some are, they may be minimised and languishing around near the trashcan on the dock.
You can also use apple tab in an analogous way to alt tab under windows. If you are using OSX 10.3, you can also sometimes use the expose feature to find windows that have sneakily crept out of sight.
Gah.. OSX is a PITA...
Stick Ubuntu on it, and only run Mac-on-Linux for the OSX software you need! There's the double bonus of being able to run AROS-PPC hosted on Ubuntu at the same time as OSX! :-D
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mdma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Karlos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
I get this with firefox on OSX a lot :-D
Typically you can have an application open with no windows presently open or if some are, they may be minimised and languishing around near the trashcan on the dock.
You can also use apple tab in an analogous way to alt tab under windows. If you are using OSX 10.3, you can also sometimes use the expose feature to find windows that have sneakily crept out of sight.
Gah.. OSX is a PITA...
Stick Ubuntu on it, and only run Mac-on-Linux for the OSX software you need! There's the double bonus of being able to run AROS-PPC hosted on Ubuntu at the same time as OSX! :-D
I'm not sure that would work for the task which I require it... That tiny little G4 is gonna have a hard enough time running Logic Audio and driving my 10 channel audio interface alone without the joy of Linux getting in the way... :-)
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bloodline wrote:
mdma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Karlos wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open :-?
I get this with firefox on OSX a lot :-D
Typically you can have an application open with no windows presently open or if some are, they may be minimised and languishing around near the trashcan on the dock.
You can also use apple tab in an analogous way to alt tab under windows. If you are using OSX 10.3, you can also sometimes use the expose feature to find windows that have sneakily crept out of sight.
Gah.. OSX is a PITA...
Stick Ubuntu on it, and only run Mac-on-Linux for the OSX software you need! There's the double bonus of being able to run AROS-PPC hosted on Ubuntu at the same time as OSX! :-D
I'm not sure that would work for the task which I require it... That tiny little G4 is gonna have a hard enough time running Logic Audio and driving my 10 channel audio interface alone without the joy of Linux getting in the way... :-)
Just overclock the {bleep} and water cool it then! ;-)
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mdma wrote:
Just overclock the {bleep} and water cool it then! ;-)
Then I may as well stick with my existing Laptop :-P
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I don't think the G4 will be that badly underspecced for audio work, provided the software is written to utilise the vector unit for those pesky DSP like jobs.
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The problem is that hardly any apps take advantage of two mouse buttons, as Apple don't provide them as standard.
The Mac usually uses a key combination instead of the right button mouse, almost all apps support this. The right button is used for this function so you'll find almost all apps will automatically use it.
Gah.. OSX is a PITA...
It take some getting used to yes, but once you've used it for a while you'll not want to go back.
BTW the 12" PowerBooks can put out quite a bit of heat when you push them.
There's plenty of audio apps for them though.
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minator wrote:
There's plenty of audio apps for them though.
If by "plenty", you mean "expensive"... then yeah ;-)
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Seriously for a second, how does one get application to show up on the desktop in MacOSX... lets say, the application disapears for some reason, then when you click on the icon to open it up again, the title bar changes to your app, but none of the windows open
It never 'disappeared' but was 'iconified' just like on Amiga. On Apple when you click window close button it closes window but the program stays. You can open new window from program menu.
There are 3rd party commodities to fix this annoyment :-)
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itix wrote:
There are 3rd party commodities to fix this annoyment :-)
Do you know of anything that will allow me to change the highlight colour for seleceted text? That is still a major problem for me, changing just the background colour isn't enough :-(
Stupid "think different" design paradigm there. I guess they "think" that if you are colourblind, you have no place using a mac and should stick to some greenscreen 286 ;-)
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Karlos wrote:
itix wrote:
There are 3rd party commodities to fix this annoyment :-)
Do you know of anything that will allow me to change the highlight colour for seleceted text? That is still a major problem for me, changing just the background colour isn't enough :-(
Stupid "think different" design paradigm there. I guess they "think" that if you are colourblind, you have no place using a mac and should stick to some greenscreen 286 ;-)
I have a problem seeing green!
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Me too. I perceive only one primary colour properly* so I tend to use an "inverse" effect for text highlighting. For the life of me I cannot find out how to make OS-X show highlighted text white on blue!
*hint : see avatar :lol:
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If I draw a red line on a whiteboard, i can see it no problems. If I draw a green line I can see it no problems, but if I put a red line next to a green line it looks like the lines are dancing! :-)
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That seems to be common for Red-Green colourblindness (of which I have an extreme form). My brother has a similar problem - red on blue or green causes the same dancing effect. I also get it for strong primary colours against blue, but I don't tend to perceive the non-blue colour - well, it is more complex than that as I shall try to explain.
If I see something colour (that isn't blue/violet), I can usually tell that it is not grey. However I simply cannot tell what colour it is other than it is lighter or darker.
My optician explained it like so. There simply aren't enough R/G receptors to give the old visual cortex enough information to resolve what the colour is, only that it is a colour and not simply grey (some very intense greens do register as different from everything else). As for unsaturated colours, they tend to look greyish.
Hence no need for me to suffer the work of interior designers :lol:
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Is it possible to just install a decent desktop and use it instead of finder?
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bloodline wrote:
Is it possible to just install a decent desktop and use it instead of finder?
Heresy! :-x
;-)
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It seems that Apple are going to move to x86 afterall... for laptops next year, at least. So where does this leave me? :-(
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bloodline wrote:
It seems that Apple are going to move to x86 afterall... for laptops next year, at least. So where does this leave me? :-(
In the dark until Herr Jobs gives his rally later today! :-)
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mdma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
It seems that Apple are going to move to x86 afterall... for laptops next year, at least. So where does this leave me? :-(
In the dark until Herr Jobs gives his rally later today! :-)
Yeah, it's a good job (excuse the pun) I didn't buy one on saturday :-)
Where can I find out details of his speech?
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bloodline wrote:
mdma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
It seems that Apple are going to move to x86 afterall... for laptops next year, at least. So where does this leave me? :-(
In the dark until Herr Jobs gives his rally later today! :-)
Yeah, it's a good job (excuse the pun) I didn't buy one on saturday :-)
Where can I find out details of his speech?
apple.com in about 6 hours time i guess. Although I'm sure /. will have breaking news, maybe osnews.com too.
I say just buy one Matt. So what if they do go x86? It won't suddenly stop your new G4 from working.
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mdma wrote:
I say just buy one Matt. So what if they do go x86? It won't suddenly stop your new G4 from working.
Yeah, but I'm already skeptical about the machines performance...
Ok, I've had Logic audio running 8 tracks (with plenty of effects) + Reason on a 1Ghz AthlonXP before... and that was pretty much maxed... When I tried to run the same on a Mac Laptop 2 years ago (I forget what the processor was, but the thing cost £1800... probably ~800Mhz...). It simply couldn't do it.
Now the Powerbook is running at 1.5Ghz and has 512Meg of RAM... I'm hoping that it will be able to cope and run for at least 2 hours on it's batteries while doing it.
Maybe I would be better off looking for a Pentium-M laptop with a 6wire Firewire port... But I can't find 6wire laptops anywhere.
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bloodline wrote:
mdma wrote:
I say just buy one Matt. So what if they do go x86? It won't suddenly stop your new G4 from working.
Yeah, but I'm already skeptical about the machines performance...
Ok, I've had Logic audio running 8 tracks (with plenty of effects) + Reason on a 1Ghz AthlonXP before... and that was pretty much maxed... When I tried to run the same on a Mac Laptop 2 years ago (I forget what the processor was, but the thing cost £1800... probably ~800Mhz...). It simply couldn't do it.
Now the Powerbook is running at 1.5Ghz and has 512Meg of RAM... I'm hoping that it will be able to cope and run for at least 2 hours on it's batteries while doing it.
Maybe I would be better off looking for a Pentium-M laptop with a 6wire Firewire port... But I can't find 6wire laptops anywhere.
Can you not get some kind of adapter cable?
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mdma wrote:
Maybe I would be better off looking for a Pentium-M laptop with a 6wire Firewire port... But I can't find 6wire laptops anywhere.
Can you not get some kind of adapter cable?
No, the 6Wire Firewire provides power, the 4 Wire one doesn't so if you use a 6->4 cable you then have to power the device externally... which makes the whole mobile thing pointless... as I've discovered with my exisiting "normal" laptop which has a 4wire Firewire :-(
I really need to talk to others who have Powerbooks and can provide me with real world figures for perfomance... the spods at the apple store (the one on Regents Street) just hype the hardware so much, I left the shop thinking that the 1.5Ghz PowerBook G4 would make an 8 way opteron server look underpowered.. :-(
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mdma wrote:
I say just buy one Matt. So what if they do go x86? It won't suddenly stop your new G4 from working.
Another issue is that, to use the machine, I'll have to make a massive investment in software (about £600)... that's not something I'm prepared to just throw away, because Jobsie decides to change tack...
-Edit- Slightly off topic, but very cool link: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/12inchPowerBookG4/0_Preface/chapter_1_section_1.html
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Do you know of anything that will allow me to change the highlight colour for seleceted text? That is still a major problem for me, changing just the background colour isn't enough
Nah, no idea, since I dont have any kind of Mac :-)
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bloodline wrote:
It seems that Apple are going to move to x86 afterall... for laptops next year, at least.
I doubt it, can you imagine all the hassle involved with software that'll be written for x86 or PPC only? (kinda stuff done by bedroom coders or small companies for whom the extra expense of buying extra machines isn't worth it)
This Apple/Intel thing is like a networked game of Chinese Whispers, every couple of days it pops up again with something else added/distorted.
It started off as "Apple using Intel chips", that went on to "Apple using Intel CPUs", to "Apple dumping PPC for Intel CPUs in macs" then "Apple to use Intel x86-64 in macs"
If Apple are p****d off at IBMs lack of speed, why choose the looser in the 64bit x86 race?
Anyway, onto your 4/6pin Firewire thingy...
Is there any way to make an adapter to take power from the USB ports, or does the Firewire spec demand a greater minimum current?
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Doobrey wrote:
Anyway, onto your 4/6pin Firewire thingy...
Is there any way to make an adapter to take power from the USB ports, or does the Firewire spec demand a greater minimum current?
I already considered that :-)
But the USB provides 5v 550mW, the Firewire provides 9V 7W... so that's a no go...
I'm pretty much resigned to getting a powerbook G4... they do look nice if nothing else :-)
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2 large obstacles are present. Firstly, no Mac version of Adobe Audition... But at a push I could cope with Logic Audio 7 (despite it costing 3 times as much...).
Why not get Logic Express (£199)?
Do you really need the additional features of Pro?
I'm planning on getting it for the iBook.
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Wilse wrote:
2 large obstacles are present. Firstly, no Mac version of Adobe Audition... But at a push I could cope with Logic Audio 7 (despite it costing 3 times as much...).
Why not get Logic Express (£199)?
Do you really need the additional features of Pro?
I'm planning on getting it for the iBook.
I would look into both.
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@Bloodline:
I would look into both.
You may know this stuff already but one of my mates, who is a sound engineer, emailed me earlier today about the difference between Pro and Express.
Here's what he said:
Alright Robert
Express has 5 intruments (ES1,ESE,ESP,EFM1,EXS24P). I don't have EFM1, so I
assume it is one of the ones added to Logic 7 and is also given away with
the new express. The biggest problem is that the sampler is only for
playback i.e. you can't fil it with your own samlples. Peter[anothe sound engineer mate] and I were
always wondering whether, if i created the samples he would be able to play
them back, never found out. It also comes with all the garage band
instruments which you will know more about than me. The other synths are
fairly basic but still very useful especially when used with the automation.
The plug ins are 40 on express and 53 on Pro, so I assume it will be Space
Desinger, Multi-band compressor and the like that will be left out.
Still plenty to be getting stuck into and I am sure that you would have nae
complaints.
It's just finding the time.
Lack of a sampler is a bit of a pain but not 400 quids worth of pain. :-D
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@Wilse
If you have an iBook there... have you run any version of logic on it? What spec is the laptop and what performance did you get?
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Not a bad little machine...
It's not as powerful as my Winblows laptop, I'm actually a little disappointed, but it is just about able to keep up with my demands :-) I've ordered a 1Gig memory upgrade (which will take me from 512Meg to 1.26gig) so I push the machine a little harder.
But I have to say I like it... it runs much cooler, it's great on the batteries, it is more stable and consistent than Windows... Once you get past the lack of basic control the OS is really good, the audio drivers as second to none... and since Logic 7 only runs on MacOS X, I've got no choice but to keep it :-)
All in all... it's a bit expensive for what it is, but it does do its job, and does it well... Looks like I'll be first in line for one of the new Pentium Powerbooks :-D
The onboard Audio is surprisingly good too! There may be times when I don't need to use my FA-101 :-o
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Just picked up an iMac G3 to play around with. ONE MOUSE BUTTON really stinks but I believe there are options I can explore. I used to use Macs years ago in our office, I have fond memories and Mac OS 9 and X still feel very comfortable to me.
I suppose we are still cousins, wonder in AOS will ever go 86 (notwithstanding Aros).
Cheers
ace
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It's not as powerful as my Winblows laptop, I'm actually a little disappointed, but it is just about able to keep up with my demands I've ordered a 1Gig memory upgrade (which will take me from 512Meg to 1.26gig) so I push the machine a little harder.
I assume you're using Tiger, if so the memory upgrade should make a big difference. Some memory usage went down with Tiger but other things went up so it can be a bit erratic. The updates should fix it though in time.
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minator wrote:
It's not as powerful as my Winblows laptop, I'm actually a little disappointed, but it is just about able to keep up with my demands I've ordered a 1Gig memory upgrade (which will take me from 512Meg to 1.26gig) so I push the machine a little harder.
I assume you're using Tiger, if so the memory upgrade should make a big difference. Some memory usage went down with Tiger but other things went up so it can be a bit erratic. The updates should fix it though in time.
Yup, I'm on Tiger 10.4.1
I've been using the machine all morning for music work ,and it's been as solid as a rock. I've not been pushing it too hard, but I am very happy with what it has done though. It's worth it just for Logic 7, which with the timing corrector is brilliant!!! ;-)
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bloodline wrote:
It's worth it just for Logic 7, which with the timing corrector is brilliant!!! ;-)
In the old days we just played instruments tighter :lol:
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bloodline wrote:
I've ordered a 1Gig memory upgrade (which will take me from 512Meg to 1.26gig)
1.26? :-?
1024MB + 512MB = 1536MB / 1024 = 1.5GB
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mdma wrote:
I have a problem seeing green!
Time for a Colour Blind Test (http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html). Sorry, I couldn't resist :-P
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mdma wrote:
1.26? :-?
1024MB + 512MB = 1536MB / 1024 = 1.5GB
Think different ;-)
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Karlos wrote:
mdma wrote:
1.26? :-?
1024MB + 512MB = 1536MB / 1024 = 1.5GB
Think different ;-)
:roflmao:
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With regards to the mouse button issue, try installing SideTrack.
You can have six mouse buttons if you wish.
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adz wrote:
mdma wrote:
I have a problem seeing green!
Time for a Colour Blind Test (http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.html). Sorry, I couldn't resist :-P
Some nice descriptions here (http://colorvisiontesting.com/color2.htm)
The protanope and deuteranope, on the other hand, can be severely color deficient. The real problem, as a protanope or deuteranope may see it, is there are far too many hue names (color names) used by most people without any obvious basis for using one instead of another. Why call something "orange" when it doesn't look different in any way from something else called green, tan, beige, or any of several other color names?
Agree 100%. Goddam interior designers and their meaningless 'earthy tones' :lol:
I'm feckin proud to be severely Deuteranopic! (almost monochromat...)
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@Karlos
The trojan horse that is colour blindness has once again made its way into yet another thread :lol:
So, out of respect for bloodline and my fellow forum users, I have started another thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16321) elsewhere, quite an interesting topic.
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mdma wrote:
bloodline wrote:
I've ordered a 1Gig memory upgrade (which will take me from 512Meg to 1.26gig)
1.26? :-?
1024MB + 512MB = 1536MB / 1024 = 1.5GB
As Karlos quite correctly pointed out... this is a Mac... you do indeed have to "think different"
The Powerbook 12" has 256Meg soldered to the Motherboard + a 256 SODIMM... thus in order to upgrade the RAM you first have to remove the 256 SODIMM.
The correct equation is:
1024MB + 512MB - 256MB = 1280MB / 1024 = 1.25GB
Any for anyone who is interested, I have run a battery of tests and this is what I've discovered:
The 1.5Ghz G4 is about half the speed of my 3.06Ghz Pentium4.
The 1.5Ghz G4 is about one third the speed of my 2Ghz Athlon64.
The 1.5Ghz G4 is over twice as fast as my Via C3 800Mhz.
The 1.5Ghz G4 is about one and a half times the speed of my AlthonXP 1Ghz.
All tests were performed by trying to carry out the same/similar audio and music operations. Your millage may vary ;-)
I'm keen to try a "G5" and see what that is like.
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The Powerbook 12" has 256Meg soldered to the Motherboard + a 256 SODIMM... thus in order to upgrade the RAM you first have to remove the 256 SODIMM.
Madness!
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I dont know about the RAM soldered to the motherboard, I know my iBook was like that, but my Powerbook has two sodimm slots, I know because I just put 2GB on it.
All you freaking about Mac going x86 have nothing to fear. its not full swing before mid 2007. Xcode tools has an option to build binaries for both PPC and Intel in the same binary. That is one app to double click launches on both processors. Its awesome. The guy that lives next door is a Mac developer and has the new dev workstation with a 3.6GHZ Pentium 4 in it. We played with some of his code and ran things on my G5, the powerbook and the intel native machine as if it was all the same. You can run SOME PPC apps on the intel machine as well through emulation, but its not good for anything other then things like Office apps, photoshop ect. Universal binaries will be comming out for several years for both machines. Dont forget MILLIONS of PPC Macs are out there still.
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Acill wrote:
I dont know about the RAM soldered to the motherboard, I know my iBook was like that, but my Powerbook has two sodimm slots, I know because I just put 2GB on it.
Yeah, I got the 12" Powerbook, which only has one SODIMM socket... the 15" and 17" Powerbooks have 2 sockets.