0S4 development on track

[DaveP]

I could comment about the worst part of development.. It's when during debugging you suddenly realize that all parts don't fit together as earlier was expected and some major parts of system goes to total rewriting. Are you surely pass that point that you know it'll all fits together and will work as expected?

I see you claiming an awful lot in recent times, exactly what
are your credentials here?

@jd997uk:

jd997uk wrote:
There will be calls for Hyperion to show something, but since no company in their right sense shows an incomplete OS to the public (with the exception of M$ with Win95 ;~), there's no need at this time for any alarm.
If we hear _nothing at all_ for 6 months call me back.

I agree with you.
Once, I finished a software project until beta stadium and wanted to give it to our customer to test it and to see if it fits their needs. I gave the version number 0.80 I think. My project leader said: "When a program comes to the customer it has to be 1.0!" and named it version 1.0. Bloody idiot!!!

Hyperion doesn't work this way and I love it, when companies release full working products the way Amiga did it with every OS version.
Well done Hyperion and go on working like this!
Don't listen to those people blaming you, you're not going to release anything. I think many of us believe in you. I DO!

[DaveP]

Could you clarify a bit on this please? If all functionality hasn't been implemented, the OS can't be in beta-testing by definition. Are you talking about beta-testing of separate parts and modules?

Not really. At least in real life products almost always enter beta testing partially
complete.

[DaveP]

Ah we've had Seehund and JoannaK, now all we need
is Dammy and Strobe and we can all have a big re-union
trollfest and flamewar.

:-D

[Ami603]

Since i am working on Machinery manufacturing,this
"betatesting" of uncomplete systems can be done,
we all test all parts of each machine separately,
and when you join all together,you can left out more than
80% of problems,also is easier to solve problems on some
"module" in your real "workbench" than trying to solve it mixed with all the
metallic structure of the machine itself.if we only test each finished machine,
we just lose days and days of work leaving parts already
mounted,removing covers,leaving electrical installation,
fitting new pieces.this kind isn`t very pleasured, i can tell you for sure.

[z5]

I still wonder why Ben Yoris made that comment though. As i seem to recall from AmigaImpact, Ben always was positive in regards to AOne and OS4.

Also, i really don't understand the Cebit thing. I mean, they did announce a first showing at Cebit(launch / selling confusing). So is this still on? I mean, you announced, so the least you could do is say if this is still on, no?

I've got cash for a pc or AOne. And i'm really wondering what to do. Is it a question of summer, autumn,....? Oh well, who knows...

[Seehund]

DaveP,

Hey! I think both I and JoannaK asked quite relevant, honest and obvious questions about things that are unclear in HyperionMP's post and that "CeBIT in March" announcement.

There's no trolling or flamebaiting going on, and I think you see that there's no bad intentions or anything like that in my post. Maybe I'm oversensitive and you were referring to the zealot brigade (of whatever conviction) that always will frown at any questions at all and interpret everything as what they like to call "FUD", but those are better left ignored.

Actually, the first possible flamebait I've seen in this thread is your post. (Although I can see and appreciate your tongue in cheek, you're playing with matches next to short fuses in this forum, I'm afraid.)

[Seehund]

z5 wrote:
I still wonder why Ben Yoris made that comment though. As i seem to recall from AmigaImpact, Ben always was positive in regards to AOne and OS4.

I don't see how Ben Y's post could be interpreted as negative criticism towards AmigaOS. All he said was that someone had misinterpreted "March 2003" as the release date for AmigaOS 4.0, and that he thought it would be next year instead, to which Ben Hermans replies that he definitely thinks it's in 2003.

I honestly don't understand the people shouting "FUD" or "lies" at absolutely anything.


Oh, another question to Hyperion, were you talking about the AmigaOS-release for CSPPCs or "AmigaOnes"?

[Karlos]

I'm sure OS 4 will be released when its good and ready. Not a moment before :-D

Still, it's good to see such an avid demand for its release!

As an aside, what proportion of existing Amiga users have a PPC/gfx card in their system?

See...

Hyperion comes through again, out of the silence.

Are these good dudes, or what?     ;-)

[Nick]

I get the impression that it is quite a few. When you go on IRC you will find that theres more than you`d expect. Almost everybody seems to. I for one have PPC + GFX card. My Brother has PPC + Voodoo etc.

[DaveP]

Hi Seehund!

Yes my t-i-c attempt to lighten the atmos probably would light
it in that way ;-) Note I never said who the trollfest would
come from :-D

I'd love for Hyperion to produce detailed status reports but
the last time I saw a detailed "roadmap" and cared a toss
about it was the PhaseV one.

I am resigned to it will be done when it's done, the detailed
questions I don't think will get useful answers and nor do I
see them as being make or break issues.

But, if you do get detailed, useful answers I will read them with
interest but I wouldn't curse Hyperion if you don't get them.

In fact I wouldn't mind JoannaKs questions at all if they weren't
always ( at least in my memory which I admit can be
faulty here ) full of dubious assertions about product development.

Ive been in large scale product development for ooooh 10 years
6 months ago and I've never seen any project that didn't slip
or any adaption of so called hard and fast rules ( like what the
hardest bit of development is going to be ).

Complete design rewrites have rarely occurred ( once only in
the entire time I have been professionally employed ) and
on a product like AOS4 with a pre-existing codebase and
well known and documented "semantics" even less.

In fact if you consider that a 68k version of AOS4 used for integration
testing of function being a "simulator" and it works then the
semantics are agreed.

Questions can also be placed to create "unanswered questions"
and as a tool to spread fear and uncertainty....

Suffice to say we don't know the internal state and the internal
assumptions the project is based on, therefore no one is in
a state to judge.

[Nick]

Yep Hyperion are cool!

[lempkee]

Same comments as i expected to see, and by that i mean that the recently seen ben Yoris post is FUD,
but since i know what developing means and that an OS is no easy task (havent mos been in dev since 1988 ?
so that means also if its delayed i have full understanding of it.

I rather have a FINISHED OS,than a beta version numbered OVER the final release,
and if the people here wants to see the damn os before its released , the n there is NDA's to sign.

And for all who still thinks that AMIGAOS4 is going to be released on A1 first.....well HAVENT you guys read any of the
official posts?? , is it all about flame??
and to people who doesnt understand modular based developing, well for that there is one answer! .. IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY? ..
unless there is 1 man involved in the development this is the only way , but sure someone (m$) likes the world to betatest and that
gives many of the flamers here something to talk about, or??

i wish hyperion the best of luck (yet again) and i belive they will give us a PROPER os
and not v.00000.100000000b , and v0.2 , v0.2b , v0.2c , v0.3, then a edit v0.1 and then v1.0 and then v1.3 , and then claim its
still beta so they rename it to v0.9b like someone else likes to do (no FUD)


before there is supposed to be more of this spam/fud #### i think that all here should sit back and relax , or is this a JOB for you?

cheers and i am sorry if i have startled someone in any way.

[amigamad]

nice one did not want to run linux on a1 till end of year ,its good to see your going to release it when it is bugfree this will be worth the wait.

[Wilse]

@lempkee:

before there is supposed to be more of this spam/fud #### i think that all here should sit back and relax , or is this a JOB for you?

While it may be easy for you to sit back and relax, some of us are, well, *were*, expecting a release in March. Yes I know, "launch" apparently does not mean "release" but in light of the *complete* lack of clarification regarding what "launch" actually means, I (perhaps stupidly, granted) assumed the implication was OS4 would be released *before* March. The wording of the announcement seemed to imply this to me.
Now, reading between the lines of the threads here, it seems it's the other way round. That has disappointed me. I appreciate the reasons for not giving a release date but impatience is creeping in. I for one, do not want a useless (for me) linux machine sitting there for eleven months. If it isn't going to be here for March/April, I'd probably be better spending the cash that I have *now* on a mac.

Basically I want a new computer. Ideally, I want an Amiga. So I ordered one in November. The money is still sitting in my bank account. I expect the machine to arrive next month. The OS, I was expecting by the month after that. Now I'm not so sure.

Al, if you're reading this, I may be joining you.