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Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2006, 08:31:21 AM »
Quote

Fats wrote:
I just bought a Honda Civic Hybrid here in Belgium, I will need to wait till December for delivery though. It included 8 years of guarantee on the battery and the electric circuit. So if it has to be replaced after 4 years it will cost Honda money.

Staf.


Keep us updated on your purchase then. I am interested to read a real world "review" of Honda's version of the technology.  :-)
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2006, 10:34:50 AM »
Quote

GadgetMaster wrote:
Quote

nadoom wrote:
Do you own one? :) a mule that is


You mean not everybody has one in your area like we do here in Manchester  :-?  

btw it is stricly used as a form of transport here I must point out. Not for recreational purposes like in some parts of the world :-P


My sister has a mule. And to conveniently fit with the thread, it *is* a hybrid (between a horse and donkey) :-D
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2006, 12:23:01 PM »
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Cyberus wrote:

And to conveniently fit with the thread, it *is* a hybrid (between a horse and donkey) :-D


That was the original implication ;-)
int p; // A
 

Offline Fats

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2006, 02:29:22 PM »
Quote

GadgetMaster wrote:

Keep us updated on your purchase then. I am interested to read a real world "review" of Honda's version of the technology.  :-)


I actually did a test drive with the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic IMA and have choosen for the Honda for several reasons:
- cost: although we get a refund from the Belgium government of 15% on the Prius and 3% on the Honda the Honda is still cheaper. The prius should be a little bit more fuel efficient though.
Also for the Prius the test drive was with a car with extra options like parking assistence and the sales people did everything to promote these extra featres.
The Honda was the standard equipment (for Belgium) except for leader seats, and the salesguy did not seem to puch the extra options that much. Standard options on Honda: CVT transmission, cruise control, heating in the front seats, car stereo with 6 CD, VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist).
- technique: I am impressed more with the technique of the Honda IMA motor (an eletrical part and conventional part joined into one motor block) then the Toyota one (two separate motors). I admit this preference is subjective. I was also impressed by the CVT transmission of the Honda; but the Prius also has this feature.
- look: Although it is not important to me I liked the external look of the Honda more the the Prius. Also the internal look of the Honda is more sportive (rpm display of the motor) then the Prius (which is quite boring).

All-in-all I don't think I am a good reviewer and that both cars are good vehicles. I probably did make my decision more on feeling then on reasoning.

greets,
Staf.
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Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2006, 02:45:07 PM »
It's true. With the styling of the Prius they chose to make it look just like an average Corolla or something.

The CVT (Continuous Variable Transmission) is quite good. At first you tend to find it starange that there is no groaning of the engine or lurch that is produced on normal cars as they shift gear. Overall it is a much smoother drive.

Park assist etc are just gimmicks. Tell the salesman "I am perfectly capable of parking between two cars thank you very much!"
 :-P
 

Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2006, 02:59:06 PM »
Quote

Fats wrote:

All-in-all I don't think I am a good reviewer and that both cars are good vehicles. I probably did make my decision more on feeling then on reasoning.

greets,
Staf.


But posting a few fuel consumption figures would be helpful.
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2006, 10:44:51 PM »
@Gadget

How was it on the Notts run just now?
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Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2006, 11:57:50 PM »
It managed an average of 52mpg. I'm quite happy with that.

The last time I filled up was on Eid and two round trips to Liverpool and a weeks worth of commuting plus todays round trip to nottingham isn't bad for a tankful costing just £35.

Best choice I have ever made in all my years of driving  :-D
 

Offline Agafaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2006, 04:13:00 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
One likely problem with that reaction is that it isn't easy to reverse. You'd end up with a lot of sodium borate (jagshemash!) that would be difficult to reprocess back into sodium borohydride. Ideally you don't want by products from you fuel cell other than water. Anything else is dead weight you are carrying around.


well, I only know about this from wikipedia you understand: I havent really looked into it much further than that.

Quote

Production of the borohydride in the first place requires a considerable amount of energy. Overall, it's cheaper to use liquified hydrogen. However, that's also extremely dangerous.


see, theres the tradeoff that needs to be made:
safety vs. efficiency vs storability.

you could also use methanol fuel cell, but you still need to remove the hydrogen to be able to use it in a fuel cell, and what to do with the carbon ?

besides, its all a question of where the energy conversion to electricity takes place: way off at some generator somewhere, or locally with an alternator linked to an engine ?

it is also worth bearing in mind the efficiency of electric motors compared with petrol: a good petrol engine in a car will get about 25% useful work out of the petrol.
a good electric motor will get 90-95% useful work from an electrical fuel source.
a hydrogen fuel cell will get about 80% of the available energy converted to electricity.

the thing about borax (sodium borate) is that it is solid, and could be taken away and recycled in bulk - probably at a service station type thing.

also, if one is forced to burn hydrocarbon fuels to produce the hydrogen/sodium borohydride, the powerplant will only be doing ONE THING, and can be made that much more efficient meaning less carbon is released, and potentially use biofuels instead of mineral fuel.

just a train of thought (geddit!), no structure whatsoever, apologies! I'm now gonna read the rest of the thread, suffice to say, I'd heard that Priuses (Prii ?) are still deceptively expensive to run...
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Offline Agafaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2006, 04:28:04 PM »
Quote
That was the original implication


well *I* got it.

I see nobody got my mule joke...or are you all just ignoring it ? :-P
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2006, 04:30:55 PM »
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote
Don't you ride mules? =)


my wife has a pair...


Never heard them called that before :lol:
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Offline Agafaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2006, 04:33:17 PM »
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A Prius wouldn't serve my needs well


me neither - I currently drive a Laguna Estate. theres no WAY I could get me, my wife and three kids in a prius! (dont forget to include boosters for the two over-5's and a rear facing carseat for the babby...and room for the morrisons haul of course!!
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Offline Fats

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2006, 07:24:41 PM »
Quote

GadgetMaster wrote:

But posting a few fuel consumption figures would be helpful.


I have only the official numbers according to some Europian test procedure. They are also in litres/100km as is the common metric here:
(City/countrysite/combined)
Prius: 5.0/4.2/4.3
Honda: 5.2/4.3/4.6

greets,
Staf.
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Offline GadgetMaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2006, 10:29:38 PM »
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
Quote
A Prius wouldn't serve my needs well


me neither - I currently drive a Laguna Estate. theres no WAY I could get me, my wife and three kids in a prius! (dont forget to include boosters for the two over-5's and a rear facing carseat for the babby...and room for the morrisons haul of course!!


Maybe this THIS

Would suit you better then.  :-)
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2007, 10:42:50 AM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
That's the rub. Any rechargeable system that ultimately requires recharging from a mains supply will result in increased load on electricity supplies and subsequent increases in emissions from there.

Not necessarily.

Back in 1971 (when I was 14) our teacher performed an experiment about the electrolysis of water in a chemistry lesson that produced detonating gas. Finally he ignited the gas and it blew the test tube into pieces with a loud bang.

Our teacher then said thet the reaction of hydrogen and oxyde is much more fierce, produces much more energie than the reaction of e.g. petrol and air and produces zero air pollution, as the result of this reaction is steam.

At the very same moment my finger went up and I asked my teacher:
"So why do all the cars still use petrol or diesel?"

His answer was:
"If this was possible they would have done so long before!"

Later - in the course of my training as a machinist at KHD (Magirus Deutz) - I asked the same question to my foreman at KHD's engine research centre.
He answered basically the same as my teacher before, but he became more precise:
"If hydrogen and oxygen react, it results in a very high firing temperature, which would make the intake- and exhaust-valves melt."

These answers did not satify me and so I decided to make an experiment on my own.
My hobby was flying RC model aircrafts at that time and from that I had a spare 0.33 cm^3 petrol model engine.
With my limited resources I "electrolysed" me some cm^3 of detonating gas (took me two weeks with a 12V transformer and an old aquarium), slightly modified the model engine by taking off its tank and carburetteur and supplying the detonating gas instead of petrol.

Then I started the engine and - woooohooo! - it ran!
It ran for about 30 seconds until the detonating gas was empty.
Later I re-mounted tank and carburetteur and it ran flawlessly with petrol again.

So I had my proof that it worked.

Later - while studiyng engineering - I learned about constructive measures to avoid the melting of metal at such temperatures. After all the engines of the Space Shuttle (which burn hydrogen and oxygen as well) don't melt either...

But from my own experiment I knew how time-consuming the production of hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis of water  would be - and so started to look for a more efficient way to do this. After some years of research I had an idea how I could produce H & O much faster and at an lower energie footprint - I still have to prove with an experiment that it works.

But nevertheless electricity is still reqired for this process. And if we're talking about operating all combustion engines worldwide with H&O, then we're talking about a fair amount of electricity that's needed for the H&O production.

Then a next idea began to shape out.
If I want to reduce the emissions of the cars to save the environment by using H&O, then we can't use "dirty" electricity for that.
I thought about the way it is now:
We drill holes into the earth and pump up what's left of the sunshine from some million years ago (oil, result from ancient forests) and burn this in order to be mobile, while at the same time the sun still sends us a comparable amount of energy like millions of years ago.

So today we end up with the energy of the daily sunshine PLUS the energy of the daily sunshine from some million years ago that made the ancient forests grow from which the oil stems we burn when we drive by car, sail by ship or fly by plane.

So I thought that if we today "dig out the sunshine of the past" to be mobile and want to change that, we must reduce the daily sunshine that hits the ground here on this planet by exactly that amount we are burning "sunshine of the past" to be mobile.

When thinking about possible solutions, a sunshade sprang to my mind.

What, if we built a huge solar cell platform in the orbit that works as an jalousie, collects the electricity of all solar cells, transfoms it to rays and sends it down to earth wireless?
(I recently read about an technique for wireless energy transmission and it works already on distances up to 30km - I'm confident that with goal-oriented research 300km and more are no problem at all)

If the orbit is calculated accordingly, so that this platform can throw a big enough shadow on desert areas, I would expect low (air) pressure in this areas as a consequence.
As normally rain comes with low pressure, such an desert area might start to grow green again, which would improve our air quality and climate significantly.

That's why I said "Not necessarily" in the beginning...

But I'm afraid such a project is far too big for one nation - and if I look at the current political conditions worldwide I have not much hope that this could be realized anytime soon.
(Sorry for my long posting)
All the best,

Dandy

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Offline Agafaster

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Re: Anyone drive a hybrid?
« Reply #44 from previous page: January 16, 2007, 03:42:01 PM »
Quote

GadgetMaster wrote:
Maybe this THIS

Would suit you better then.  :-)


YYYuck! that is one Pig-ugly motor!

The Koleo looks better, but its nearly a bl00dy 4x4...
\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
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