Collection Low-end systems which have still users and software development

[utri007]

It is easier to port games and apps from equal systems to 68k amigas than from modern world.

So here is small collection of forums to follow:

Risc OS ?
Atari???
Sinqlair QL has at least 040/060 mobos availlable, but are there still a scene???

So I'm waiting your hints

[Cammy]

I think cross-developing new Sega Mega Drive/Genesis and SNK Neo Geo CD games along with Amiga games would be alright, along with the Atari ST, Acorns, and maybe 68k Macs. It depends on the game, but they all use 68k CPUs and have similar enough graphical capabilities that something like a single-screen platform game might work.

There are already people developing games for all of those systems (except Mac 68k) so it might be cool to see if we could get some ported to our Amigas too.

[dreamcast270mhz]

I would think one game that should be remade is Herzog Zwei, best RTS game ever made for the Genesis/Mega Drive

The Jaguar also has a 68k CPU BTW

[commodorejohn]

I think cross-developing new Sega Mega Drive/Genesis and SNK Neo Geo CD games along with Amiga games would be alright, along with the Atari ST, Acorns, and maybe 68k Macs. It depends on the game, but they all use 68k CPUs and have similar enough graphical capabilities that something like a single-screen platform game might work.

There are already people developing games for all of those systems (except Mac 68k) so it might be cool to see if we could get some ported to our Amigas too.

Kinda depends on the kind of game and source platform, though. Tile-based games aren't going to be as fast on the Amiga as on, say, the Genesis, since there's no built-in hardware support for tile-maps. (On the other hand, with video memory mapped directly into CPU address space, there's a whole lot more room for optimization than with it accessed through two measly I/O ports like on most consoles.) On the other hand, a Mac game re-optimized for the Amiga's chipset could quite possibly outdo the original, since AFAIK the 68k Macs didn't really use any kind of hardware acceleration.

Still, if they were able to do this stuff back in the day, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to pull it off now

[Cammy]

Yep, I'm fully aware of the unique hardware each of the platforms mentioned has and their capabilities, which is why I suggested a game like a single-screen platformer. Nothing needs to scroll around, you can have pretty nice looking graphics for all of the systems, even the one limited to 16 colours.

Another game which wouldn't be too hard to write for multiple computer plaftorms is one I'm working on now, a text adventure!

[commodorejohn]

Yeah, it's difficult to find a computer that isn't capable of running a text-adventure

I do think you could manage something a little more complex (8-way-scrolling single-layer + sprites, at least,) but it'd probably have to be designed carefully for that goal rather than ported from another platform for which it was designed.

[utri007]

Cammy do you know any links to Sega Megadrive/Genesis projects?

Some links to RiscOS programs with source

http://www.riscos.info/packages/SectionIndex.html


News

http://www.riscos.org/news/index.html

Atari projects and some programs to 030 - > 060

http://mikro.naprvyraz.sk/download.htm Atari Duke Nukem with sources, this more sophisticated than current amiga port. Could somebody check sources? At least this hints so, "It was planned to reuse some stuff from Amiga port but the assembler part was quite unoptimized so I decided to use C sources only. "

news

http://www.atari.sk/

[drHirudo]

I have done some cross developing projects in the past and in fact was able to port one of my games to 12 (twelve) platforms! - Amiga, Vic-20, C64, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Oric Atmos, Apple II, Commodore 64, Coleco Vision, IBM-PC (XT in DOS), Dragon 32, Game Boy (Classic), Sega Master System and Game Boy Advanced and another game to 11 (eleven platforms). Almost all the ports of the games were done on Amiga except for the MacOS X and Windows ports, where I used the alien OSes.

After doing so much ports I took several notes:
Porting to many platforms removes the uniquiness and the charm of each game on each platform. You simply can not focus on single platform and take the most of it, especailly when you are doing only one or two gaming ports and did not experiment much.

It's hard. Coding in Z80 assembler, then switching to 6502, then C, then C++, 680x0 assembler, then 65816 assembler, then BASIC, then x86 assembler, can drive you mad at times. But it works after you get used to it.

Each platform needs to have an artist that works especailly on this platform and knows the limitations and the possibilities. While the code can stay almost the same, only ported, porting graphics from Apple II to Amiga or the vice versa would not look good. Music from Amiga to C64 is also not good with using converting tools. Each platform needs capable artist for it.

All the above notes are not valid for the new platforms, where you easily can port SDL game to Amiga, MacOS X, Windows with a single recompile, because these platforms don't have the limitations of the old hardware.

But if you want to have a game for retro platforms, better first code in or less capable machine - for example Vic-20 or Apple II and then improve it on the more powerful hardware like C-64, Sega Mega Drive or Amiga and add new ideas. Porting from Amiga back to Vic-20 will have to come with some cuts of the game that can be pain. That being said it is best to code only on Amiga and polish your game there and don't care about the other platforms, even if you play a game or two on them.

Also, I mostly gave up coding for consoles because the games did not performed as good as they were on the emulators, for too many reasons.

[itix]

But if you want to have a game for retro platforms, better first code in or less capable machine - for example Vic-20 or Apple II and then improve it on the more powerful hardware like C-64, Sega Mega Drive or Amiga and add new ideas.

I would say opposite. It is much easier develop a game for Amiga 500 and then downscale features to 8-bit machines. I dont see problem there. Often C64 games were coin-op conversions and did better than games designed for C64 only. There is still people thinking Rob Hubbard's Commando is an original.

[dreamcast270mhz]

So how hard would it be to remake a simple RTS like Herzog Zwei? I tried years ago in Game Maker, but couldn't find rips of the sprites and couldn't get the AI to work correctly, it would either ignore me or pursue me relentlessly, ignoring its bases. Now I've been thinking about getting back into this, I think If I could develop a remake in AmigaE or C or something on both a real Amiga and Amithlon, then I could finally break some ground. It could probably run on as low end as a 500, considering the Genesis's modest specs.

One project that is developing on the Genesis is Hypertension TDGMods, using Doom on the 32x and sega CD system, but I have no idea if they're following through.

[Jonekare]

I love software and software development forum as like this forum.

[slaapliedje]

Speaking of ports between old systems.  I really wish someone would port some of the missing games from the Atari ST to the Amiga, and vice versa.  Specifically I'm talking about Phatasie 2.  The first and third ones both came out for the Amiga, but the second one never did.  At least that I could find.

Same with Bard's Tale 2 and 3, they were never released for the Atari ST.

Kind of difficult to play through an RPG series when the second one is missing.

Obviously to port these over, we'd somehow have to get a hold of the source code from SSI.  How often has anyone attempted to do something like that (get source code for an old, out of print, game?) and have succeeded?

Free the source!!!

slaapliedje

[Thorham]

It is easier to port games and apps from equal systems to 68k amigas than from modern world.

Games from systems in the early 2000s can also be doable. Examples include Game Boy Advance RPGs and strategy games such as the Advance Wars series (GBA and NDS).

Of course you'd have to write everything from scratch, and it's probably best done in assembler on slightly expanded machines (Adnvance Wars 2 can be done properly on an A1200 with just trapdoor fastmem and an internal HD/CF, if I'm not mistaken).

In my opinion, the only impossible things seem to be 3D games, although the Playstation 1 Final Fantasies all use prerendered backgrounds and only use 3D for character/NPCs and the battle screens (and this 3D isn't exactly advanced, maybe doable with some sort of Doom style engine). Characters/NPCs at locations could be done by partially pre-rendering them (most of this stuff can be easily ripped using modding tools) and using old style point and click scaling.

[commodorejohn]

In my opinion, the only impossible things seem to be 3D games, although the Playstation 1 Final Fantasies all use prerendered backgrounds and only use 3D for character/NPCs and the battle screens (and this 3D isn't exactly advanced, maybe doable with some sort of Doom style engine).

Don't know if you've played GoldenSun on GBA, but this is very similar to what it does (it doesn't use a Doom-style raycaster engine, but a simple scaling 360° panorama background, IIRC,) with scaling sprites instead of 3D models for the characters. Works pretty well at GBA/Amiga resolutions.

[fishy_fiz]

Yes, its just me being pedantic, but gba and amiga (even low res) resolutions are pretty different (amiga low res is more than twice the res of a gba (38400 vs. 81920 pixels).The GBA's very low res of 240x160 is a big part of the reason it appeared significantly more powerful than the snes,.... its simply wasnt moving nearly as many graphics. Yes it had a more powerful cpu too, but that was only half the story.