Next step for Amiga(like)OS?

[uncharted]

@Piru

That still does not answer the question does it?

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:

bloodline wrote:
A Inc going under can only be a good thing... But hey why don't we forget about tainted code and propriatory operating systems and start a community based open source AmigaOS, that the community could then "own" free of any dodgy companies, legal issues and expensive hardware... Woe, woe and thrice woe, if only such a project existed... If only something like that had been started 10 years ago... Sigh... If only...

I don't see the MorphOS team as a dodgy company, but I know that they must have their own skeletons in the closet.

No MOS is not a dodgy company, the AROS team and the MOS team have worked closely... This is what I would like to see more of and what I was alluding to... Is that not what you wanted to see?

I take your sarcasm is pointed at the slow to materialize AROS project that has not gained more support.

No, I could not care less about how much support AROS has... it suits my needs, sod the rest off you ;-)

I was trying to point out that complaining about some company is pointless...

Edit: I don't think the actual AOS4.x programmers are dodgy either, but have my doubts about Hyperion.

All in all I think greed and stupid decisions have ruined the next generation Amiga.

Well yes... but that is stating the obvious... :-)

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:

bloodline wrote:
If anybody was atually interestested any more... then it could probably be sorted out really quite easily... Ihe sad part is that no one is interesting in some worthless prehistoric IP and a brand that died in the early 90s...

In a world of iPhones and Xboxes, PS3s and Wiis, A landscape of Vistas and Leopards... the Amiga is nothing more than a footnote in an old history book somewhere.

You are right, not even AInc. was interested in AmigaOS4 until it was close to being finished and they thought they could steal a few bucks from the developers working on it.  

True!

But many of the members here and elsewhere around the world on other sites like this one, there are a few hundreds of people still interested in what is going to happen to AmigaOS4.x and a similar number that are interested in MorphOS2.x.  Those are the people that matter to me and the reason I am here.  

I'm not interested in any specific flavour of AmigaOS... I just want to play with AmigaOS on cheap, powerful hardware... If I don't have to pay for it much the better.

From all the negative comments you repeatedly make (I know you will only say they are realistic, not negative, but that is just your excuse), I wonder why you are a member here and spend so much time and effort putting down almost every Amiga development and new idea.  

I have answered your question already. Please search though the threads to find the answer.

This is not meant as an attack on you, just an observation of your many recent messages on many different topics.  Such as the comment above.  

As is your want. Feel free to attack me if you wish, I feel confident I will be able to defend myself.

To most of the members here the Amiga brand did not die in the early 1990's and if asked, I would bet many do not care as much about the world of iPhones, XBoxes, PS3's, Wii's, LeopardOS and VistaOS, as they do about their Amiga(s).  That is why they are here every day and night and not somewhere else, like MS.com, or Apple.com. :-D

No you misunderstand the concept of Brand. I'm sorry to say the Amiga brand is worthless. Think of a brands like Kellogg's Corn Flakes or Coca cola...

[bloodline]

uncharted wrote:

bloodline wrote:

A Inc going under can only be a good thing... But hey why don't we forget about tainted code and propriatory operating systems and start a community based open source AmigaOS, that the community could then "own" free of any dodgy companies, legal issues and expensive hardware... Woe, woe and thrice woe, if only such a project existed... If only something like that had been started 10 years ago... Sigh... If only...

...AROS had anything remotely resembling a direction or plan, perhaps something may of happened.

What might have happened?

Curse those to idiots who screwed things up for wanting to actually run Amiga software on their new operating systems. (if I was feeling evil, I'd say any software)

Curse those idiots for not bothering to port AROS to the hardware of their choice... and then whinging...

MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 stole all the mindshare, because they had a plan for the future, and most importantly, they worked.

MOS and AROS worked together... I don't get your point, except you erroneously assume that I actually care about the people who whinge that they can't run OS4... AROS is there, the source code is open and free... do with it what you will.

[amigadave]

uncharted wrote:
@Piru

That still does not answer the question does it?

If AInc. had any proof they would have used it and not backed off.  

[LoadWB]

Piru wrote:

Monday, April 29, 2002, 11:10:22 PM, I asked:

Amiga INC. writes:

The MorphOS team knows this and has spent the last six months or so
trying to remove any code they have which was derived from AmigaOS.
However, our attorneys already have a copy of a MorphOS release where
via disassembly, you can prove that they did use the same source
routines as were in the AmigaOS source code that they had.

And that's absolute crap.  Disassembly can only at best show similarities.

[persia]

Remeber Maui X-Stream VX-30?  They produced CherryOS which when diassembled showed direct lines from PearPC..  They're princple product also shows directly stolen code.  

[takemehomegrandma]

And that's absolute crap.  Disassembly can only at best show similarities.

Of course it's absolute crap. It was part of the FUD campaign against MorphOS that Amiga Inc and Hyperion jointly fired off as part of their "OS4 marketing efforts" as soon as they teamed up to build their own OS4 (you see originally, it was MorphOS that was supposed to become OS4 since that was quite far progressed and complete at the time already, but that didn't happen (thanks to the influence of Ben Hermans of Hyperion)). Nothing more, nothing less.

MorphOS was years ahead and had a tremendous momentum in the community at the time. It had to be stopped, and FUD was supposed to be the way. The campaign was intensive and some people really believed it. Still today we see people calling MorphOS illegal, and using those same old arguments in discussions. :roll: Well, it turned out that MorphOS wasn't stopped, but a community rift was created instead.

Here is a *small* collection of examples from the past:
http://www.biclodon.com/misc/amigafarm/benhermans/

Note that you can easily replace "MorphOS" with "OS4" in almost every single one of these quotes, and it will reflect the situation of *today* with lawsuits and all (against *Hyperion* of course, *not* the MorphOS team). Do this when you for example read this (and this is a favorite of mine):

Ben Hermans of Hyperion: "The failure of Amiga Inc and the MorphOS team to come to terms is in part due to the fact that Amiga wants to assert their ownership and intellectual property rights over the Amiga OS (for which they paid 4.5 M USD) whilst the MorphOS team happily continues to refute those claims"

Ironic, huh? ;-)

(Here and here are some more)

FUD, FUD, FUD, nothing more, nothing less.

There has *never* been a case against MorphOS.

[SamuraiCrow]

persia wrote:
It's pretty safe to say there is no OS5 outside of Taos Intent (AKA Amiga Anywhere) .   AmigaDev works in dotNet, although they seem to have picked up some Linux skills as well.  They aren't OS developers.  Amiga Inc's website has been devoid of even fake announcements since February.

...

Any future that AmigaDos or an AmigaDos-like OS has is with us.

There has been some interest on AROS-Exec about porting an LLVM-based compiler to AROS so it can become somewhat more platform independent in its software.  AROS has already been developed on the x86 and ported to the PowerPC and x86-64.  My main concern is the lack of 68k support both in AROS and LLVM.

An AmigaOS that has support for multiple instruction sets will need a good intermediate code so that all of the apps will be able to install to each hardware platform.  LLVM fits that bill rather nicely.  (Not to mention it is used by Mesa to emulate shaders on systems that don't have them.)

If you're interested in LLVM the website for it is at LLVM.org.  Sidewinder and I'll probably be using it in the Mattathias BASIC compiler since it generates good code so quickly.  I might be willing to even take a bounty to port LLVM to AROS if one were offered.

[amigadave]

@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

[Painkiller]

With the court case dragging on interminably and the outcome seeming to not favor Hyperion, perhaps it is time for the AmigaOS4 team to consider another alternative.

I know there is a lot of bad blood between some of the users of AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.x, but I am not up to speed on any details of developer disputes between the AmigaOS4.x team and the MorphOS2.x team. I am sure there must be some animosity between the two teams, but it is a shame that they cannot resolve their differences and work on a common goal and project. Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone. Stop fighting each other and work together and maybe something worth attracting the buying dollars/pounds/euros of the few remaining Amiga fans and maybe a few curious Linux users, or dissatisfied Windows users.

I personally am leaning toward getting and using MorphOS2.x, but would much rather see a combined effort which results in something bigger and better than both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.x.

Let's bring the two split parts of the Amiga community back together.

I know that this is all just wishful thinking, but what can it hurt to express it? Please no "Red" or "Blue" trolls here.

IMO MOS 2.0 is allready the OS that we as an Amiga community should be leaning towards. It currently has readily available hardware to run on + it is a very finished OS. Ofcourse there are still bugs to be get rid off.

I have MOS 2.0 currently installed on my PEG II and I haven't had this good "Amiga" experience in years. The system is responsive, it support modern USB devices out of the box etc. AOS is far behind and it has little to none hardware to run on etc. There isn't a single good program to run on AOS that wouldn't have been ported to MOS or have a better alternative at MOS.

MorphOS-Team really delivered this time, just hope you guys can solve Efika problems and port it to mac mini soon.

[AeroMan]

One thing came up to my mind when reading this thread: the original Amiga was a revolutionary machine. It was a combination of a hardware concept which was ahead of it's time, and a OS that was unseen on a personal computer back then.

Then, we can take a look at our options:

OS4 - Runs on A1 or PPC accelerator. (out of production - no hope for new machines)
MOS - Peg (out of production) or Efika (hobby board)
AROS - Commom PC (choose your maker)

We have two options which have either no new hardware to run or just a base board to do it. The last one runs on common PCs and have to compete against Win/Mac/Linux as an alternative.

So, we have OS' which are "upgrades" for the old Amiga OS to run on hardware with no advantages over commom PCs. OS is just half of the Amiga's formula.

The point is:  Being "Amiga" wouldn't be do it with the same goals that the original team did? Having a innovative OS running on innovative hardware to be ahead ?

Maybe it would be a good idea to think about a machine free from PC specs to be better/faster/cheaper running a OS free from the needs to be compatible with the original Amiga that has the Amiga-like features we would like to have (fast boot, small footprint, etc..).

This looks like a next step to me. Do what the Amiga did. :-)

[persia]

@Aeroman

You are right of course, an OS designed with the original ideas of the Amiga would be a good option, however the Amiga community doesn't seem to have the programmers to accomplish this.  It's scarey that six months have passed and we are no closer to getting OS4 running on a MacMini than before.  

Maybe the only road ahead is to port MOS to Intel...

[TheMagicM]

AROS on any x86 board..

I tried AROS and at the time I figured since MOS was a flash in the pan, AROS was the next best thing once UAE integration was built in (whatever they called it).  Now that MOS2 is here, its very polished.  Yea it has bugs and yea, they'll be fixed.

To combine OS4 coders (I think you mean the brothers from Hyperion?) + MOS, to put it mildly, is a absurd idea.  OS4, its features, software, design has nothing new or good to offer MOS.  MOS Devel is a rag-tag group of hardcore coders.  I may call them elitists because they dont speak up in public w/news regarding MOS but I respect them highly for what they've designed.  They do not need any design help or ideas for MOS.

OS4 had its chance and AINC got greedy and is burying it in the deep waters of the legal ocean, unfortunately.

Anyway, come on over and check out MOS if you havent, it freakin rocks.  It will make you feel like the first day you bought your Amiga.

As for MOS having Amiga IP in it.. if they knew for a fact they would win the case or had a chance, they would of buried MOS.

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Well that's much more interesting! For all your talk about cooperation and unity in the Amiga scene, and now you claim not to like AROS... Now why would that be?


And you call me negative... The ironing is delcious!

[amigadave]

bloodline wrote:

amigadave wrote:
@SamuriCrow,

Not being an AROS fan, I would rather see you spend your time on Mattathias for MorphOS than a port of LLVM to AROS, but that is just my tilt on the subject.

Well that's much more interesting! For all your talk about cooperation and unity in the Amiga scene, and now you claim not to like AROS... Now why would that be?


And you call me negative... The ironing is delcious!

How childish.  You mean "irony" not something you do to straighten out the wrinkles in your shirts.

I sort of knew it was a waste of time to start this thread, but I am not the only one who has voiced a desire to see the Amiga community reunited under one common direction. Be that AmigaOS4.x, AROS, MorphOS2.x, or my preference, as I stated in the first message of this thread, which is none of the above, but instead to have everyone working on a new project OS that is better than all the above. That not being reality, now or in the near future, my first choice of the available "Amiga-Like" alternatives would be MorphOS2.x.

I will not waste any more of my time replying to messages like yours above.  Write whatever you want about me, I know that I very seldom write anything negative about actual or potential Amiga projects, and make a conscious effort to keep it that way.

Pointing out that, in my opinion, many of your messages tend to be in opposition to one Amiga related project or another was just stating the obvious and was not constructive to this thread. Have a nice day!  :-P