Next step for Amiga(like)OS?

[amigadave]

With the court case dragging on interminably and the outcome seeming to not favor Hyperion, perhaps it is time for the AmigaOS4 team to consider another alternative.

I know there is a lot of bad blood between some of the users of AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.x, but I am not up to speed on any details of developer disputes between the AmigaOS4.x team and the MorphOS2.x team.  I am sure there must be some animosity between the two teams, but it is a shame that they cannot resolve their differences and work on a common goal and project.  Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone.  Stop fighting each other and work together and maybe something worth attracting the buying dollars/pounds/euros of the few remaining Amiga fans and maybe a few curious Linux users, or dissatisfied Windows users.

I personally am leaning toward getting and using MorphOS2.x, but would much rather see a combined effort which results in something bigger and better than both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS2.x.

Let's bring the two split parts of the Amiga community back together.

I know that this is all just wishful thinking, but what can it hurt to express it?  Please no "Red" or "Blue" trolls here.

[trekiej]

Hopefully without much arguing.

[Piru]

Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone.

I see a small problem here, assuming Amiga Inc wins (and I can't see how they could lose really), it means that they would pursue any attempt to re-use the knowledge gained from working with the AmigaOS 4.0 (it is based on the original sources after all), meaning anyone in the team would be tainted forever.

So assuming such project would ever be started (note: this is speculation, I am not signing up to any such project here), it'd be quite impossible to include anyone from the OS4 team, just alone because of this.

BTW I don't find this funny, only slightly ironic.

[Debaser]

Piru wrote:

Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone.

I see a small problem here, assuming Amiga Inc wins (and I can't see how they could lose really), it means that they would pursue any attempt to re-use the knowledge gained from working with the AmigaOS 4.0 (it is based on the original sources after all), meaning anyone in the team would be tainted forever.

So assuming such project would ever be started (note: this is speculation, I am not signing up to any such project here), it'd be quite impossible to include anyone from the OS4 team, just alone because of this.

BTW I don't find this funny, only slightly ironic.

If Ainc. had 4.x in their hands and severed ties with Hyperion - what would they do with it. It would be like giving it to a tech-ed class learning logo circa 1988.

[jorkany]

What about OS5? When McBill first announced it back in Sept. 2006 he said the AmigaDev team had already been working on it for two years - so now they've got four years in on it, it should be pretty close to release, right?

[persia]

It's pretty safe to say there is no OS5 outside of Taos Intent (AKA Amiga Anywhere) .   AmigaDev works in dotNet, although they seem to have picked up some Linux skills as well.  They aren't OS developers.  Amiga Inc's website has been devoid of even fake announcements since February.

Amiga Inc are liars, they bid US$20 million to name a stadium when they had no cash on hand, they announced new machines with an individual who doesn't have the facilities to make good on the deal, they send a letter stating that they turned down deals bigger than iPhone because of the court case, a profoundly idiotic thing to say since a) OS4 doesn't work on pocket size devices and b) the amount of money that they and Hyperion are talking about is a relatively small number compared to iPhone and c) nobody who had that kind of money would want to deal with KMOS/Amiga Inc.

If KMOS (AKA Amiga Inc) win the court case, which is not a forgone conclusion, they will take AmigaDos and bury it and that will be the end.  If Hyperion win they'll develop it, but for PPC only, which is a dead end path with little or no choice of hardware.

Any future that AmigaDos or an AmigaDos-like OS has is with us.

[amigadave]

persia wrote:
It's pretty safe to say there is no OS5 outside of Taos Intent (AKA Amiga Anywhere).......

Any future that AmigaDos or an AmigaDos-like OS has is with us.

That is the truth!!!

@jorkany,

Are you joking!  If you think there is a mystery OS5 out there somewhere in AInc's hands, you just have not kept up with what is really happening.

@piru,

I think that the AOS4.x team would need to be careful about what they create in the future, but doubt that AInc. will waste their slim resources going after a hobby OS if the AOS4.x team were to join up with the MorphOS2.x team and create something new, but similar to MorphOS2.x that would retain its backward compatibility with Classic Amiga software.  The AOS4.x team can't be tainted forever to never work on anything close to an "Amiga-Like" OS.  What would AInc. have to gain to start another lawsuit against the team if they start work on something new, but are using their knowledge and talent toward a similar, but different result?  AInc. has not gone after the MorphOS2.x team lately.

Also, I did not intend this thread to be funny, or to be a reason to renew old hostilities between users or team members of either side.  It just makes sense that if we could somehow put both sides back together working on one solution instead of two, it would get done twice as fast and might lead to something better than either alone has achieved.

Again, I know that this is highly unlikely as there is too much pride and resistance toward working together and who on either side would offer to heal past wounds first?

Just a hopeless wish that I think many Amiga enthusiasts share.

[Piru]

@amigadave

What would AInc. have to gain to start another lawsuit against the team if they start work on something new, but are using their knowledge and talent toward a similar, but different result?

Full ownership to a nice OS without actually paying anything for it?

AInc. has not gone after the MorphOS2.x team lately.

They never had a case anyway, and they know it.

[weirdami]

I see a small problem here, assuming Amiga Inc wins (and I can't see how they could lose really), it means that they would pursue any attempt to re-use the knowledge gained from working with the AmigaOS 4.0 (it is based on the original sources after all), meaning anyone in the team would be tainted forever.

Much like anyone that worked on MorphOS.

[amigadave]

Piru wrote:
@amigadave

AInc. has not gone after the MorphOS2.x team lately.

They never had a case anyway, and they know it.

Exactly my point!  I don't think they would have a case against a new OS coded by the AOS4.x and MorphOS2.x teams either, unless both teams really screwed up and tried to copy parts of AOS4.x too closely.

[Piru]

@weirdami

Much like anyone that worked on MorphOS.

Except that MorphOS is not based on AmigaOS source code, and as such is clearly not derivative work. Many claims have been made that this would be the case (by some pretty high up people), even claims of 1:1 disassembly of amigaos 3.x being found from inside MorphOS (which is quite funny considering MorphOS is PPC).

While it could be argued that any new amigoid code written by the OS4 team members would be free of any such influences, it would give pretty strong argument for A Inc to claim otherwise (since clearly these people have had access to the source code for years, and have used it as base for earlier derivative work).

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:

Piru wrote:
@amigadave

AInc. has not gone after the MorphOS2.x team lately.

They never had a case anyway, and they know it.

Exactly my point!  I don't think they would have a case against a new OS coded by the AOS4.x and MorphOS2.x teams either, unless both teams really screwed up and tried to copy parts of AOS4.x too closely.

Why would either teams bother? They don't need each other of each other's incompatible technology. The only real way to do what you are saying is to dump OS4 and get the last few guys who work on it working on MOS... Since MOS is safe from A Inc... But why should OS4 devs abandon their work? You see the problem has nothing to do with the OSs or the developers, but instead is down to the users. This is a free market, if all the users decided to go with one solution then that would naturally for the developers to work on that one solution.

But as soon as you start advocating one solution over another you'll just run into the people who want the other solution. In a market this small there can be no clear winners.

I see what you are trying to do, but it's too late.

[Piru]

@amigadave

I don't think they would have a case against a new OS coded by the AOS4.x and MorphOS2.x teams either, unless both teams really screwed up and tried to copy parts of AOS4.x too closely.

No MorphOS team member have had any access to OS4 source code, ever, so it would be impossible for anyone outside the OS4 team to know if some random code is clean or not. At least I wouldn't be ready to take the risk of getting the whole project tainted by any OS4 code.

And even if it was clean, A Inc could drag the new project to court for years, just because of a possibility of such a thing. No, I wouldn't include any OS4 team members to such project.

[LoadWB]

And there is precedence out there which covers derivative work like what is suggested.  In particular, in the original days of coding PC BIOS, anyone who understood the workings of a PC BIOS but had never ever seen, touched, or slept with someone who had seen or touched any disassembled PC BIOS code was preferred.  Doings so meant that the work done on the clone BIOS would not be tainted by the IP of the original.

This abstract also illustrates why Windows NT could be considered a derivative work of Vax/VMS, since the guy who designed the NT Kernel also wrote VMS, though he went in a completely different direction with NT than he was allowed with VMS.

OS4 devs have seen the original Amiga source code, which is AI's IP.  Were any of them to jump on-board with MOS, they would bring with them the experience and knowledge of AI's IP, and the temptation to incorporate that into MOS would be too great to ignore in maybe the dev sense and definitely the legal sense.

This is the exact basis of the SCO lawsuit claiming Linux is a derivative work from System V Unix.  Not so much that Linus Torvalds had used System V code, but that developers had contributed source based upon their knowledge of the System V core.  SCO lost for other reasons (mainly that they don't own the rights to System V, anyway, as it still remains in the hands of Novell.)

Which makes me wonder how the licensing for OpenSolaris works since Solaris is a direct descendant of System V.  (Or is it System IV?)

For a project as proposed be able to work, AI would have to release the current OS4 developers from liability for developing an a-like work of AmigaOS, agreeing that the devs can only take with them the knowledge of the deep inner workings of AmigaOS, but not any copies of the original source or internal documentation.  Which we know simply will not happen.

It proves to me that AI has no intention of doing anything useful with AmigaOS.  Hyperion could push OS4 into new territories which would not only please its current fan- and user-base, but also possibly open a new market for embedded devices, with AI's blessings.  Instead, AI binds their hands and limits them to only developing for sanctioned hardware which is either way out of date, unreasonably expensive, or non-existent.

Were AI to take OS4 away from Hyperion, AmigaOS would be consigned to atrophy under the tight-fist of AI (worse than it is now) and ultimately die a permanent and painful death.  Well, until AI sinks and someone else purchases the IP.

[takemehomegrandma]

Piru wrote:

Take all that talent and knowledge from both OSes and create a new Amiga compatible and "Amiga like" OS that is a step into the future for everyone.

I see a small problem here, assuming Amiga Inc wins (and I can't see how they could lose really), it means that they would pursue any attempt to re-use the knowledge gained from working with the AmigaOS 4.0 (it is based on the original sources after all), meaning anyone in the team would be tainted forever.

So assuming such project would ever be started (note: this is speculation, I am not signing up to any such project here), it'd be quite impossible to include anyone from the OS4 team, just alone because of this.

BTW I don't find this funny, only slightly ironic.

Indeed, any OS4 developer will be like infected with the plague in this regard; they are forever polluted by Amiga IP and all other "AmigoidOS" developers should make sure to never even go near them.