Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: lempkee on February 28, 2004, 11:10:24 PM
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27 February 2004: San Francisco, California. KMOS, Incorporated announced today that it has acquired the Operating System known as Amiga OS 4.0 from Amiga, Incorporated. Garry Hare, Chief Executive Officer of KMOS, said, the acquisition of this innovative operating system was completed in April of 2003. We have continued to cooperate, and will continue to cooperate, with the existing development, technical and distribution partners toward the AmigaOne market.
saw this on an news site today (which i dont go to much) , anyone know something more or?
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Well, at least now we know what happened to Garry Hare :-)
I wonder if he was a Genesi employee at the time he was passing out those business cards...
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According others (= I didn't check) it was also a short-time news on Amigaworld.net.
I don't expect it to be real... Sounds too strange.. even considering everythign else happening. :-o :-? :-o
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I don't know about the situation, but I know this story was taken both off AmigaWorld and ANN.
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I'm 99.9% sure it's a hoax.
Christian Kemp considers it a bad hoax and has deleted the thread 5 times from ANN.lu's unmoderated section. (Going by his post on Moobunny.)
Personally, it's not very convincing. Why wasn't an announcement made back in April 2003? Why didn't Hyperion say anything? Why didn't Eyetech say anything (as AmigaOne is mentionned)? Who is KMOS (why don't they have a website)?
Also missing from this "announcement" is the typical: small descriptive paragraphs that detail the product(s) and companies involved in this deal.
Actually, come to think about it... I'm 100% sure it's a hoax. :P
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kennyR: and who would that be?
is this yet another one of thoose conspiracy teories ?
Re: Gary Hare , KMOS and OS4 ????
I don't know about the situation, but I know this story was taken both off AmigaWorld and ANN. And I know who asked to have it taken down.
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@lempkee
I'm not certain (which is why I removed that part of the comment, too late it seems), but it was most probably Hyperion. And let me add that that is hearsay, so don't accuse me of spreading FUD if its not true. Because it might not be.
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sdesros:maybe they removed the items because they wanted an OFFICIAL statement covering all of it and just not the bits which was quoted on daveyd's comment on aw ?
going to bed now....YAAAAAAAAAWN
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DaveyD said he was asked to remove it from amigaworld.net
Ben Hermans said that it got removed because it was not
official. He won't comment on it (yet).
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Uhhh... weird.
:-?
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This is Christian Kemp's view on the announcement (taken from MooBunny):
I'm considering it as a hoax, too. And not a good one at that, which is why I deleted it maybe five times in ANN's unmoderated queue today (probably submitted by the same person each time - I could look up IP addresses, but I don't think it's worth the trouble).
Given the amount of disinformation that's been going around lately, unless I see an actual press release I'm not believing anything.
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Who is KMOS (why don't they have a website)?
Maybe they're related to KMART? After all, KMART has a _BLUE_ light special.
Paul
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DaveyD said he was asked to remove it from amigaworld.net
Ben Hermans said that it got removed because it was not
official. He won't comment on it (yet).
Awesome!
It would explain why Amiga Inc were happy to roll over in the thendic vs amiga case.
This would leave bbrv chasing shadows....
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If AmigaOS and trademark was adquired by Hyperion, then it would be great news, they are fans of the OS and Amiga for a long time and produced titles even when it was not economically viable... but this? Yes, probably a hoax and even if not, it would be probably just another company commmercially interested in the OS.
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CodeSmith wrote:
Well, at least now we know what happened to Garry Hare :-)
I wonder if he was a Genesi employee at the time he was passing out those business cards...
You think he was working for genesi and Amiga at the same time? :-o
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No, I was just pondering the possibility that he was working for Genesi and only claiming to have deposed Bill McEwen. I remember Bill Buck making a big deal of it at the time, saying how it was "old news" and he thought everyone knew about it. All this, of course, at a time when McEwen was keeping out of sight because of an alleged threat to his family. It would have been an easy thing to hire someone to pass fake business cards around, and create rumours that could later be exploited.
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In addition to everything else that's been posted, simply reading the post reveals a lot about it:
27 February 2004: San Francisco, California. KMOS, Incorporated announced today that it has acquired the Operating System known as Amiga OS 4.0 from Amiga, Incorporated. Garry Hare, Chief Executive Officer of KMOS, said, the acquisition of this innovative operating system was completed in April of 2003. We have continued to cooperate, and will continue to cooperate, with the existing development, technical and distribution partners toward the AmigaOne market.
The tone is terrible and the phrasing is awkward - obviously not written by a real company, probably by someone who doesn't speak English very well. Shouldn't there be a few quotation marks in there?
Hoax.
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The tone is terrible and the phrasing is awkward - obviously not written by a real company, probably by someone who doesn't speak English very well. Shouldn't there be a few quotation marks in there?
Never mind that - where's a link to the source? without that, it's completely unverifiable. I mean, I can do it too. Watch:
Feb 24, 2004: Cape Kennedy, Florida. NASA officials have today discovered that the moon is indeed made of green cheese. "We were completely stunned about it, but the evidence is there. We had all these moon rocks for the longest time, and no-one had though of breaking one open," said Mike McGregor, one of the scientists involved in the discovery.
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Google's only reference to 'KMOS, Inc.' (http://www.bu.edu/csp/people/spence/papers/Sheldon_Tenacious_jatp1_00.pdf)
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@ CodeSmith
:lol:
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CodeSmith wrote:
No, I was just pondering the possibility that he was working for Genesi and only claiming to have deposed Bill McEwen. I remember Bill Buck making a big deal of it at the time, saying how it was "old news" and he thought everyone knew about it. All this, of course, at a time when McEwen was keeping out of sight because of an alleged threat to his family. It would have been an easy thing to hire someone to pass fake business cards around, and create rumours that could later be exploited.
Fleecy already confirmed Garry Hare was working for Amiga though. He said Garry was there at the request of the investors.
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Oh, OK. So much for that particular conspiracy theory then :-)
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@CodeSmith
Thats one of the weirdest theories I ever heard about the Garry Hare
incedent.....
Don't you think that this threat to McBill's family sounds all to similar
to "used furniture", "backhoe-accident","attack on our phone-system"
and "we are only moving closer to our costumers" ?
The most likely scenario is that Netventures did send Garry in to perform
an (hostile) takeover. This didn't went through, wether due to McBill
having secured himself, or if it just wasn't considered worthwhile by
Netventures is beyond public knowledge.
@Jose
If this wouldn't be hoax (and I'm somewhat sure it is), and Hyperion would
really have bought AmigaOS in 2003, what would it change ?
BB's contract is still ~2 years older than that, all the $$$-verdicts are
still older than that. So IF the judge really decides that BB licenced
"AmigaOS" back than, he still would void Hyperion's contact.
Same will happen if/when AInc finally goes into bancruptsy. All contracts
made after they SHOULD have filled for (probraly somewhere in early 2002)
will be voided.
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Colin_Camper wrote:
DaveyD said he was asked to remove it from amigaworld.net
Ben Hermans said that it got removed because it was not
official. He won't comment on it (yet).
Awesome!
It would explain why Amiga Inc were happy to roll over in the thendic vs amiga case.
IMHO That lawsuit had it's merits as it is, there is/was a deal and in a way it was written... I can see that case as a way to enforce years old deal (includin related trademarks, access to code etc). *But* BBRV trying to expand it for OS4 would indeed be quite big leap (IANAL, but it don¨t feel 100% proof idea).
This would leave bbrv chasing shadows....
I think you forget something quite obvious. *If* this were real.. this KMOS (Garry Hare backed by vernture capiltalists, most likely the same that originally backed Ainc) is more likely been willing to make a decent licensing/distribution deal about OS4 than AmigaInc was.. So in the end. BBRV Could get it with *less* money/effort that way.
So far.. only thing that makes it feel even a bit more real is unclear action of Hermans.. and I'd rather heard it from himself. Perhaps he knows there is some truth in it???
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We dont get red herrings here, just red and white ones.......
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Feb 24, 2004: Cape Kennedy, Florida. NASA officials have today discovered that the moon is indeed made of green cheese. "We were completely stunned about it, but the evidence is there. We had all these moon rocks for the longest time, and no-one had though of breaking one open," said Mike McGregor, one of the scientists involved in the discovery.
WHY!!!! isn't it true?!?
OMG!!! all my mouses are crying ATM
Ciao
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So in the end. BBRV Could get it with *less* money/effort that way.
quote]
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to see pegasos/morphos stuffed the way bbrv wants Amiga Inc stuffed.
Ideally, in a years time I would like to see;
1: AmigaOS4.x/AmigaOne available off the shelf - the real Amiga for top dollar!
2: Pegasos2/Morphos available off the shelf - morphos with licenced DE API so OS4.x apps aren't broken - an amiga clone for medium dollar!
3: AROS more or less usable with a special DE licence so developers can develop for free and X86 users can be 'teased'!
Oh and a T-shirt would be nice! :-P
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@Kronos
I don't think anyone knows for sure, not even them... All we can do is talk about it. And it puzzles me a little that the contract between Thendic and AInc. was as an OEM that would have non exclusive rights to sell the OS (whatever is interpreted as OS ...) and the Hyperion one was to develop it. Totally different things. So according to logic the first one can't invalidade the second. Hyperion could develop the OS and have to give it to Thendic for them to sell it becaue of the first deal(if OS4.2 can be interpreted as DE wich is a pulled up thing everyone knows..).
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Is KMOS the same as KMOS-TV ?
Found this at
"In 1978, Central Missouri State University, located in Warrensburg, MO, purchased bankrupt CBS-affiliate KMOS, located about 28 miles east in Sedalia. With PTFP assistance the station was put back on the air as a PBS affiliate in 1979. Today, KMOS-TV provides analog PBS service on Channel 6 to more than 800,000 people in 36 central Missouri counties."
http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_kmos/ (http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_kmos/)
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:-D
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http://amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml (http://amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml)
It's on amiga.com now.. And HMetal (Ray Akey) gave the link on IRC... so it sounds pretty official to me.
Btw if it is real, I'd say its good, as I recall an ann.lu post which sounded rather genuine, talking about amiga investors bringing in Garry Harre, saying he generated dozens of potential money making leads.
-EDIT- Found it!!
http://ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=rant&file=1075169273.msg (http://ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=rant&file=1075169273.msg)
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jahc wrote:
http://amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml (http://amiga.com/corporate/150304-amigaos_sale.shtml)
It's on amiga.com now.. And HMetal (Ray Akey) gave the link on IRC... so it sounds pretty official to me.
Btw if it is real, I'd say its good, as I recall an ann.lu post which sounded rather genuine, talking about amiga investors bringing in Garry Harre, saying he generated dozens of potential money making leads.
Its real alright.
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Anyone notice this bit in the announcement..
About Amiga:
Amiga, Inc. established itself in 1985 as the premier provider of multimedia technologies to the world
They may well have done, but not this Amiga Inc !
Looks like they`re trying to hype themselves up, making out they`ve been around for ages and done a lot.
Shouldn`t it be more like..
Bought some rights from Gateway, announced they weren`t going to make a desktop OS, then decided to make one, had a false start,lost time, money and marketshare,told porkies,then had to sell the OS to cover it`s debts.
Well, at least OS4 is in safer hands now.. :-)
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Hmmm, hmmmm, this is going to complicate things. The name Garry Hare rings a bell. Has he done anything Amiga-ish before? Wonder if this has anything to do with Ask Fleecy being removed from Amiga World? Will any of these coupons for A1 or OS 4.0 be honoured?
Reminds me of that chinese curse "May you live in interesting times. :-o
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aardvark wrote:
Reminds me of that chinese curse "May you live in interesting times. :-o
I always thought it was, "May your life be intresting"
Oh, well....
SOOOOOOO...... When do we get the SHARK PPC cards, later this year!!!
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Oh, and I just checked www.elbox.com and there is no news posted! I'll bet they are readying the first batch of SHARKS!
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I'm sure everyone must be itching to ask these questions, but I'm getting there first, even if I don't expect much of a reply:
1) Is this really for real?
2) Who the hell are KMOS and where can a person find out more about them?
3) Why did't we hear about this earlier when it actually happened and not almost a year later?
3) How will this affect Genesi's threatened aquisition of OS4 as being connected to the DE?
4) Will OS4 still be allowed to be marketed with the Amiga name? If so, would Amiga Inc. still get royalties? If they do, can Genesi still claim its linked to DE?
5) Will KMOS open up the hardware market and allow OS4 to be run on a wider range of PPC boards, such as Terons, Macs, and Pegasos? Would it even be up to them what OS4 was licenced to run on?
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Perhaps the company called KMOS has been formed by the investors as a mean to get the I.P. of Amiga OS from Amiga inc.. Maybe this is why no information about this artificial company has been made public yet.
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@Van_M
Better pray that's not the case.
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Well it all looks fine... up to the point that someone tries to google search on KMOS... then things get "interesting"! I sincerely hope this isn't the case but things look reeeaallyyyy weird right now......
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To ALL OF THOSE OUT THERE who have called me a liar for over a year now regarding Garry Hare, I would hope that you have the balls to offer an apology.
Wayne
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Garry Hare wasn't, and isn't, Amiga Inc's CEO.
No apology from me.
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And probably never will be CEO of Amiga Inc.
If if what you said WAS true, why the hell should we apologize to you when it is beneath your pride to apologize to US when you are in the wrong?
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Aardvark announced:
Reminds me of that chinese curse "May you live in interesting times."
MadDuck mentioned:
I always thought it was, "May your life be intresting"
;-) IIRC, The full version comes in three verses:
"May you live in interesting times,
may you come to the attention of a high official,
may all of your wishes come true."
There may be more that I haven't heard, yet.
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Does this mean I won't get my T :whack: :whack: ... ouch!
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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by Wayne on 2004/3/15 23:19:12
To ALL OF THOSE OUT THERE who have called me a liar for over a year now regarding Garry Hare, I would hope that you have the balls to offer an apology.
If they didn't apologize for calling you all sorts of things when you said OS4 would not be released in 2003, why do you think they would do it now? Please, they are not that type of people. :\
Dammy
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dammy wrote:
by Wayne on 2004/3/15 23:19:12
To ALL OF THOSE OUT THERE who have called me a liar for over a year now regarding Garry Hare, I would hope that you have the balls to offer an apology.
If they didn't apologize for calling you all sorts of things when you said OS4 would not be released in 2003, why do you think they would do it now? Please, they are not that type of people. :\
Dammy
You're right.
Now we know why Amiga were ignoring all requests for licensing of Amiga IP too... they didn't own it anymore.
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Probably why Amiga Inc. couldn't say a single thing over the past year, probably lots of non-disclosure stuff in this sale and everything...
Sad really ... does it make all those Ask Fleecys worthless? Is AG2 a myth? Is it the future of AmigaDE, not OS? Will we ever know? Will we care by then, or will we have migrated to other computer systems?
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T_Bone wrote:
You're right.
Now we know why Amiga were ignoring all requests for licensing of Amiga IP too... they didn't own it anymore.
But they are claiming to own it in depositions for the court system, which is where this is going to get interesting for McEwen, also they sold their only real asset while the debters are trying to collect their money and the company is insolvent, thats probably not going to stand up in the courts.
-Tig
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Tigger wrote:
T_Bone wrote:
You're right.
Now we know why Amiga were ignoring all requests for licensing of Amiga IP too... they didn't own it anymore.
But they are claiming to own it in depositions for the court system, which is where this is going to get interesting for McEwen, also they sold their only real asset while the debters are trying to collect their money and the company is insolvent, thats probably not going to stand up in the courts.
-Tig
Just when things were getting boring, they get interesting again :-P
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This whole thing smells like a fish that's been out of water for a week.
If this is true, then Amiga Inc. have been intentionally misleading the community for (close to) an entire year. Boy, and I thought the "Ask Fleecy" gibbersh was nonsense before.. Puts everything in a whole different light now.
Quite frankly, this appears to be a shell-game. If the rights to AOS were purchased almost a year ago, how is it that Amiga Inc suddenly acquire money right now? Someone sell their gold dental fillings or something. I also find it hilarious that, in the court documents, it says that KMOS owns the rights to source including 3.9 when Amiga Inc didn't even have the source to give to Hyperion.
What I can't fathom is why. Or who for that matter. As cool as I think AOS is, it just isn't worth that much. Any sales past units in the 1000s is more in line with pipe dreams.
I've seen comments elsewhere that claim that this is all damning evidence for Bill Buck. Frankly, I don't see it. First of all, if the item in question regarding Fleecy (don't remember hearing about it) is true, they've got no proof that Bill Buck knew it was a forgery, even if he did post on (was it moobunny or ann?)
I also like how all of the depositions say that AmigaDE is a seperate entity from AOS4. Not one claim that it (AOS4) was planned to be forged from AmigaDE.
The only thing stopping this saga from being a great movie is one thing.. Nobody's been killed yet.
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they've got no proof that Bill Buck knew it was a forgery
Bill Buck presented it as a fact.
It was not.
End of story.
Anyway, for him to have seen the e-mail, he would have read the thread with all the "this is probably a hoax" messages.
And he didn't exactly contact Fleecy to get confirmation that it was him that posted it either.
So he knewingly, and willingly, submitted something he didn't know the authenticity of, as evidence. Most likely he knew it was forged. Of course, he wasn't betting on Amiga Inc. suddenly being able to disprove this. Looks like Amiga Inc. got a good poker hand at last!
Not one claim that it (AOS4) was planned to be forged from AmigaDE.
Which didn't happen. So it is irrelevant.
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OK. I think that this is the last change that i give to amiga. Really all the promises look like the "politicians promises". And if IBM will buy the entire amiga market?
If someone remenber, when Bill and Fleecy entering in the game, was presented as people that are amiga lovers and amiga community lovers. I'm sorry but like the others these are simple money lovers. Amigaone, Matrox, new os .... We have to get a crystall ball and lurk into this with a little bit of hope.
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@Hattig
Fleecy confirmed that Garry Hare was working in Amiga Inc, doing some consult job. Looks like KMOS was supposed to take Amiga name but due to this incident they didn't...
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Sorry to go OT and all but...
DAMN ITIX, WHO'S THE BABE!? (Avatar). :-o
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Um Phat....
That's a guy. Final Fantasy 10, Mate?
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PhatBoiCollier panted:
DAMN ITIX, WHO'S THE BABE!? (Avatar). :-o
;-) Dude, that's Tidus, the main character in Final Fantasy X on the Playstation 2.
Tidus is a guy, by the way.
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Thanks, yes, that is true.
I was talking about the e-mail 'from' Fleecy that was on ANN recently that was actually a forgery, yet bbrv used it as evidence in the court case.
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Garry Hare?
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photos/970.jpg)
LOL!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :roflmao: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now lets hear some apologies (you know yourself who you are)! :-)
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Not evidence in a case, but as one component of others in the discussion in the filed "motion to modify order". It's not a case, nothing to prove "right or wrong" (that's all over, it closed with the case), only a letter to the judge.
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Not trying to be offensive, but you would have to be blind to believe that THAT picture of the business card is real.
In THAT picture there are clearly a number of defects, including:
The shine on the boing ball, does not fit with the lack of shine on the rest of the card.
The AA on the Amiga logo does not fit with the crisp reproduction of the rest of the text.
As far as I can tell, THAT photo is a fake.
Now if there are other photos, they may prove otherwise but all the evidence on that one is damning!!
Rassilon
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congrats Rassilon you are the 1000th person to inform us of that :-)
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ah well, I get there in the end you know ;-)
Rassilon
PS: BTW do I win a prize for being the 1000th person? ;-)
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DAMN ITIX, WHO'S THE BABE!? (Avatar).
He is Tidus from the Final Fantasy X :-D
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gary hare ...
why does the card say garry?
why does it say CEO ?
why does the documents shown say something diff??
trolls and flamers all over this site..
just face it bbrv juhst wanted a flame thats all...
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Well, reading the Garry Hare declaration, it could be attached to the Genesi side as well, without chaning a word.
IMNHO both sides are in orbit now - I'm sorry for the judge. The task to clear everything up is enermous, as both sides are stirring the same pot with full strength. The situation today has little do do with the friendly terms they once were on with each other.
Add to that, I'm sorry for any ex Amiga user returning to this kingdom. Who owns what? What resembles to this'n'that? What the hell's going on? Are the questions before he shows his back again.
Like in Rome, we will end up with two very similar sides, both worlds apart from their initial grounds (namely the Amiga), cutting each other's throat.
Sad state of affairs, but it seems we just can't get along.
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warface:lol , why do u even bother then?
if this is your only argument then lol , the amiga arena has been way more confusing than this the last 10 years..
all in all someone needs to make a book + movie about this..
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Not trying to be offensive, but you would have to be blind to believe that THAT picture of the business card is real.
Here's a hires version:
http://users.kymp.net/p305543a/pics/garry_hare_biz_card.png
(linked to by http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=970)
The shine on the boing ball, does not fit with the lack of shine on the rest of the card
Those "shine" being part of the boing ball image file used when designing the card?
he AA on the Amiga logo does not fit with the crisp reproduction of the rest of the text.
The image file used for the Amiga logo being low resolution and by force causing this effect on a scaled down version of the scan?
The rest of the text having been designed with "real" text (text box in some vector gfx program or even just MS Word), ie. vector gfx font?
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To anyone that is interested:
I've found a posting in "http://www.amigaworld.net" about this:
Someone named "hyperionmp" with an email-address referencing hyperions server has posted:
> ...the KMOS acquisition of AmigaOS has no impact on our immediate plans.
> Essentially, KMOS is just replacing Amiga Inc. as a contracting partner.
Sounds good and somehow semiofficial...
My private opinion is that in the best case nothing changes, but KMOS Inc. sounds like a company that just own's and trades with rights and trademarks, they do not perform any own development (as I could read between the lines in the few pages found googling for "KMOS Inc"), so earlier or later the AmigaOS will be selled off...
Noster
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Noster wrote:
To anyone that is interested:
I've found a posting in "http://www.amigaworld.net" about this:
Someone named "hyperionmp" with an email-address referencing hyperions server has posted:
> ...the KMOS acquisition of AmigaOS has no impact on our immediate plans.
> Essentially, KMOS is just replacing Amiga Inc. as a contracting partner.
Sounds good and somehow semiofficial...
:-? :-?
Who *OWNS* OS4?! Is it Hyperion? Is it "KMOS"? Or is it still Amiga Inc, assuming that this transaction would be illigal (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1079399466&category=news&number=79#comment)?
KMOS Inc. sounds like a company that just own's and trades with rights and trademarks
Well: Mr. Hare continues, "I should point out, that except as they relate to the Amiga OS family of products, KMOS did not acquire the Amiga name, intellectual property or its DE line of products. These assets remain the property of Amiga Inc."
So it seems like they are in no position to make trades with "the name".
To me it seems like they are just a (newly formed?) holding company with their only purpose of owning OS4.
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That "Eva" person on ann.lu really is annoying :lol: She`s only making a fool out of herself, and really ruins it for the rest of the blues :-)
Im avoiding that place, never going to post something there, the tension is too high :-o
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@takemehomegrandma: (must be one of the silliest names ever :-P) No offence ;-)
Im curious, why do you bother? Whats in it for you to play detective?
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hands takemehomegrandma a bailing bucket.
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restore2003 wrote:
That "Eva" person on ann.lu really is annoying :lol: She`s only making a fool out of herself, and really ruins it for the rest of the blues :-)
Im avoiding that place, never going to post something there, the tension is too high :-o
Yeah, like the "reds" Amon_Re. :-( People who's only contributions to discussions are senseless vomiting as soon as a chance opens are good to noone. They only drag things down (BTW, AFAIK, Eva is a "he").
However, ann.lu is quite a fun place IMO. There you will find the action that other sites miss (no offence amiga.org ;-)). The anonymous posting options, as well as the liberal moderation, is its weakness, but it's also its strength IMO! :-)
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Rassilon wrote:
Not trying to be offensive, but you would have to be blind to believe that THAT picture of the business card is real.
In THAT picture there are clearly a number of defects, including:
The shine on the boing ball, does not fit with the lack of shine on the rest of the card.
The AA on the Amiga logo does not fit with the crisp reproduction of the rest of the text.
As far as I can tell, THAT photo is a fake.
Now if there are other photos, they may prove otherwise but all the evidence on that one is damning!!
Rasillion,
Just so you know the facts. Wayne Hunt scanned that business card, I physically saw it, the entire NASAU user group (the founders of this site) saw it, lots of other people saw this one, or the others that were handed out by Garry, this belief that the business card is a photoshop fake instead of a scan is just silly, period.
-Tig
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restore2003 wrote:
@takemehomegrandma: (must be one of the silliest names ever :-P) No offence ;-)
Im curious, why do you bother? Whats in it for you to play detective?
I'm certainly not trying to play detective. :-)
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why does the card say garry?
That's his name. Check his declaration in the court case. The card may be fake, but it's not an obvious fake - the Amiga logo is probably produced from a pre-scaled bitmap. On the high-res image, compare the amount of anti-aliasing on the ball and the text. The first is obviously artifactual from the printing, whereas the second is plainly a bitmap that was produced for some other purpose. The rest of the text isn't typed directly onto the picture (notice how it's rubbed off in places, and matches some imperfections in the surface of the card), and it's at the same angle as the top edge of the card.
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bah the card again.
I dont know of anyone who saw such a card passed out.
I dont know any third party that positively identified Gary Hare as the person who did.
In any case BBRV claimed he "knew" weeks in advance of this that he was CEO so the point is moot anyway.
Then he claims credit for pushing Bill McEwen out of Amiga Inc.!
And then he bring a suite against Amiga Inc, now in control of his good frien Gary Hare whislt touting about having a spirit of cooperation!
That card must be one of the most valueable pieces of bodily waste around.
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Anyway, for him to have seen the e-mail, he would have read the thread with all the "this is probably a hoax" messages.
And he didn't exactly contact Fleecy to get confirmation that it was him that posted it either.
So he knewingly, and willingly, submitted something he didn't know the authenticity of, as evidence. Most likely he knew it was forged. Of course, he wasn't betting on Amiga Inc. suddenly being able to disprove this. Looks like Amiga Inc. got a good poker hand at last!
So what if people believed it was a hoax. People frothed at the mouth and called Wayne many things when he predicted that AOS4 wouldn't be released in 2003. People can be wrong. It proves nothing. And would it really have mattered if Bill Buck contacted Amiga Inc for clarification on the letter, when both parties were hostile towards one another?
In my opinion, it the letter doesn't really have much impact for either side anyway. It doesn't do much for bPlan other than say that they (A Inc) were going to lock bPlan to an older product. Amiga Inc's claim that 100s of people thought it was a hoax is false because there were only a 100 posts, a good number of them from repeat posters.
Which didn't happen. So it is irrelevant.
Personally, I don't see a big tie in here that'll allow what Mr. Buck wants, but how AmigaDE and AmigaOS were presented at the time of the license is much more important than how things turned out. Court cases revolve around past events, not current ones.
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I agree Madgun, I think the evidence Amiga presented is underwhelming.
I think if they believed the Fleecy letter was central to the judge's decision, then they needed to cast doubt on its authenticity. However, their own evidence shows that some people thought it was real, and it was, according to them, manufactured by Cheesegrate, not bbrv. So bbrv was hardly alone in thinking it was real, and he certainly didn't manufacture it himself. In that sense, they have no case for fraud (indeed they haven't filed such a charge)...they just wish to cast doubt on its credibility.
Whether that piece of evidence is central to the case, or not, I don't know...
sitting behind my computer screen, I don't know anything. I don't know, beyond a doubt, that Fleecy Moss and Cheesegrate aren't the same person, or that Cheesegrate is credible at saying he fabricated the hoax.
For all I know, that is the lie, and Fleecy did write the original letter.
From my perspective, I don't know anything, I never said otherwise.
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@MarkTime
It certainly does get interesting though. I'm really interested to find out if the sale of AOS ip really happened as they claim. If the information they submitted is false, it could be just the evidence needed to open up the flood gates and give Bill Buck exactly what he wants.
Honestly, if television producers ever wanted to target a soap opera at the geek community, "As the Amiga turns" has more than enough to satisfy all. :lol:
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Is it possible that KMOS is Amiga Inc.
I know nothing about these things so just let me rant for a second.
Where there any predators who stood to benifit from the demise of Amiga Inc?
Would it have made sense to sell the rights (to Amiga's only asset) to a small holding set-up by Amiga Inc themselves.
While we are all tossing around conspiracy theories, would this one hold any water?
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While we are all tossing around conspiracy theories, would this one hold any water?
Yeah, it's possible. Then again, same problem.. If the court found out, it'd likely give the claims by Bill Buck more merit, which would only hurt them in the long run.
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tell me, why would anyone be THAT stupid :lol:
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I'm not anti-red or anti-blue (or anything except slightly pro-AROS ;-)) but I'm still not convinced by that card. I mean... it's so crappy! But, whatever... I haven't been keeping up with all the soap-operatics, but you guys can argue some more if that's what makes you happy...
I couldn't give a {bleep} anymore. :-)
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> by Methuselas on 2004/3/16 10:49:22
> Um Phat....
> That's a guy. Final Fantasy 10, Mate?
What!?! *Cringe*
(Reaches for glasses)
I could have sworn that was the woman from the John Frieda "Sheer Blonde" TV ads..
www.tirinoarim.co.uk\sheer.jpg
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I also find it hilarious that, in the court documents, it says that KMOS owns the rights to source including 3.9 when Amiga Inc didn't even have the source to give to Hyperion.
Well... AFAIK the IP belongs to Amiga Inc., AFAIK H&P owes royalties to Amiga Inc...
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Is it possible that KMOS is Amiga Inc.
Is it possible that Amiga Inc. is Gateway.
Who knows...
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I'd like to see a purple Amiga future :-)
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Bruised?
Apt.
:cry:
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Would it have made sense to sell the rights (to Amiga's only asset)
technically the DE is also an asset, and they have held onto that one.
actually, if I was a betting man...oh heck I am a betting man....
OK, I officially (official in my capacity as sovereign of the marktime kingdom)...DENOUNCE the idea that KMOS is a holding company for Amiga, Inc.
You see I don't like Amiga, Inc. either, but they never made a mistake, in their way of thinking. If KMOS was a shell company for Amiga, Inc.,t hen you better believe AmigaDE would have gone with it.
Amiga, Inc. probably still wants to go forward with AmigaDE, although, I still don't have a clue how they would do that...the only thing is, I no longer care.
Now, I'm only concerned about kmos. If we are to believe they really acquired this thing last year, then their silence shows they don't really give a hoot about their user base.
And that is bad, very bad. Because if they don't care about this user base, regardless, of the reason, then they don't have anyone to sell a product too.
As much as they might like to jettision the wacko's, we are all, mostly wacko's with pocketbooks who were willing to invest in amiga hardware. So now who are they going to sell to?
Maybe they want to sell to Librarians and Sunday School teacher's, but they just aren't in the market for $800 powerpc motherboards....tooooo baaaad.
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It seems funny to me how this is the only business card of Garry Hare that is in existence. I have heard of no other person claiming they have a copy of his business card!
So my question to you then is why he would get business cards printed and potentially only give out 1!
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The letter evidence in and of itself is not that big a thing, the main point around it is that BBRV submitted the letter knowing it was false, and even if he did not know, he purposely kept the court in the dark about it when it was proven to be false.
This is why they went on about the osts on the forums so much.
It shows hard indisputeable fact that BBRV purposely submitted false evidence at worst, used it as fact to further his case in full knowledge he was misleading the court.
Amiga Inc's reply has ben solely about showing that BBRV was never acting "in good faith" and that he always had ulterior motives in attempting to gain more than was intended by the contract.
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this belief that the business card is a photoshop fake instead of a scan is just silly, period.
Well I think I was the one who coined the term 'photoshop fake' and I must admit having seen the 3meg version it does look a LOT different to the 250x150 approx version.
When I first saw the 3meg one (thanks to Piru) my first thought was it was real - however when I looked closely the left hand logo showed magnification artifacts yet the left hand text showed none at all. This is odd because if you were making business cards you would offer the printers a much LARGER logo image.
Wayne may have acted in good faith but he may have been mislead - did he actually SEE with his own eyes Garry Hare give the card to bbrv?
When all is said and done (and I have participated in this great entertainment myself!) the worst thing I noticed were the pube like hairs embedded on the surface of the card. Surely Bill Buck did not carry the card down THERE for safekeeping? Euuwww! :-o
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choochy wrote:
It seems funny to me how this is the only business card of Garry Hare that is in existence. I have heard of no other person claiming they have a copy of his business card!
So my question to you then is why he would get business cards printed and potentially only give out 1!
If you search Ann.lu, there are at least 5 people who've recieved them at shows, and even more who've seen them second-hand. Garry Hare was pretty active going to these tradeshows.
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pixie wrote:
I also find it hilarious that, in the court documents, it says that KMOS owns the rights to source including 3.9 when Amiga Inc didn't even have the source to give to Hyperion.
Well... AFAIK the IP belongs to Amiga Inc., AFAIK H&P owes royalties to Amiga Inc...
From what I understand, H&P own the code, and had a "buy back" clause that would let Amiga inc buy back the code, and H&P claim that Amiga Inc failed to buy it back.
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Magic-Merl wrote:
Is it possible that KMOS is Amiga Inc.
I know nothing about these things so just let me rant for a second.
Where there any predators who stood to benifit from the demise of Amiga Inc?
Would it have made sense to sell the rights (to Amiga's only asset) to a small holding set-up by Amiga Inc themselves.
While we are all tossing around conspiracy theories, would this one hold any water?
Actually, I believe that's exactly what happened. Itec/KMOS IMO are simply shells being used by those in power at Amiga Inc to hide assets from predators.
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Is it possible that KMOS is Amiga Inc.
Hyperion’s claims of *bankruptcy proof* agreement (in relation to Amiga Inc) may indicate that.
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@T_Bone:
Fair enough, but that theory sidesteps one important question: where did Amiga, Inc get the money to pay its lawyers? If KMOS was just a PO Box somewhere, AInc would still only have $100 in the bank (minus whatever the PO Box cost :-P)
Unless lawyers are a lot cheaper now than they were just a few months ago, the theory that KMOS is a fabrication by Bill&Fleecy doesn't look too solid.
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@Hammer:
Hyperion’s claims of *bankruptcy proof* agreement (in relation to Amiga Inc) may indicate that.
More likely they knew that AmigaOS was in the process of being sold (since it affected them via the "buyback clause"), so they knew that regardless of what Bill Buck got, AmigaOS was not going to be part of it.
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@CodeSmith,
Now Thats a logical argument that I can't put aside. Makes too much sense.
Iv'e got beer and beef jerky for this one. Standby for more of "As the Amiga Turns"
Chris
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CodeSmith wrote:
@T_Bone:
Fair enough, but that theory sidesteps one important question: where did Amiga, Inc get the money to pay its lawyers? If KMOS was just a PO Box somewhere, AInc would still only have $100 in the bank (minus whatever the PO Box cost :-P)
Unless lawyers are a lot cheaper now than they were just a few months ago, the theory that KMOS is a fabrication by Bill&Fleecy doesn't look too solid.
Not a fabrication "by" Bill and Fleecy, a fabrication "including" Bill and Fleecy. Obviously the investors are involved, given Garry Hare's involvement (remember Fleecy saying Garry was originally involved by the request of the investors?) and most likely the investors fronted the legal fees.
... however the investors havent sunk any more money into Amiga inc as then it would have to be used to pay past judgements first, as the court has ordered.
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sdesros wrote:
I'm 99.9% sure it's a hoax. Actually, come to think about it... I'm 100% sure it's a hoax. :P
Hehe. Hoax, fake truth, semi-lies...
Good job, Amiga Inc. Now we know in which company Dilbert has been working all those years!
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T_Bone wrote:
choochy wrote:
It seems funny to me how this is the only business card of Garry Hare that is in existence. I have heard of no other person claiming they have a copy of his business card!
So my question to you then is why he would get business cards printed and potentially only give out 1!
If you search Ann.lu, there are at least 5 people who've recieved them at shows, and even more who've seen them second-hand. Garry Hare was pretty active going to these tradeshows.
Well I stand corrected!
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@T_Bone:
I guess it could be that too. As to the investors and Amiga Inc, it could well be that the last time Amiga Inc asked for more money, the investors agreed only under the condition that Amiga Inc got rid of AmigaOS. Amiga Inc sells the OS, uses the money to settle their debts and in exchange the VCs pay the lawyers for this last round of litigation and resume "normal" funding, knowing that all the money spent will benefit the DE. The only info I have to back this up is what's been posted on the net so far (ie not a whole lot), but that's the theory that makes the most sense to me given the info we do have.
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What really amuses me is that so many people claim Fleecy is full of {bleep}, that nothing he says can be trustesd and is all a pack of lies, yet these same people use what Fleecy says in thier arguments as well when what he says suits them.
Man one things for sure, I am gunna go buy some share in a popcorn company.....
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IonDeluxe wrote:
Man one things for sure, I am gunna go buy some share in a popcorn company.....
Nah, you`d make more money buying shares in the law fims that represent Amiga&Genesi :-D
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IonDeluxe wrote:
What really amuses me is that so many people claim Fleecy is full of {bleep}, that nothing he says can be trustesd and is all a pack of lies, yet these same people use what Fleecy says in thier arguments as well when what he says suits them.
Well isn't that par for the course? Often fibbers will find their words used against them.
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CodeSmith wrote:
@T_Bone:
I guess it could be that too. As to the investors and Amiga Inc, it could well be that the last time Amiga Inc asked for more money, the investors agreed only under the condition that Amiga Inc got rid of AmigaOS.
Problem is that the got rid of the OS in April of 2003, and this funding, which we really dont have alot of proof for, just happened last week.
Amiga Inc sells the OS, uses the money to settle their debts and in exchange the VCs pay the lawyers for this last round of litigation and resume "normal" funding, knowing that all the money spent will benefit the DE.
They didnt settle their debts, in fact as far as can be shown they didnt get paid for the OS, they claimed in their deposition to be broke 1 week after they sold the OS, the claimed in the August deposition to have $100 in their sole bank account. Not one of the creditors have been paid, so why do you think they are using the money to settle the debts??
The only info I have to back this up is what's been posted on the net so far (ie not a whole lot), but that's the theory that makes the most sense to me given the info we do have.
No the theory that makes the most sense is that its a shell game to hide assets that had to be revealed after Bill Bucks last filing.
-Tig
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IonDeluxe wrote:
What really amuses me is that so many people claim Fleecy is full of {bleep},
He is.
that nothing he says can be trustesd and is all a pack of lies,
Again thats pretty much true, you are on a roll tonight.
yet these same people use what Fleecy says in thier arguments as well when what he says suits them.
Gee, quote the liar to show he's a liar, why wouldnt we do that again??
-Tig