Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: jj on October 28, 2014, 09:02:06 PM
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How tasty does that look/. 14.7 millions pixels. 5k screen. Yes 5K
wish I had spare £3K
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does look amazing but nowadays with even small tablets having better resolutions than even our eyes can actually see its hard to tell the difference.
personally my favourite Apple product is iDONTCARE;)
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Same price as a 1984 Mac :)
Nice thing with Mac and PC is that in a few years they'll be a lot cheaper will still good for value.
Kamelito
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I heard a certain source a while back say that an Apple Mac is not a good investment.
:)
I believe it was in a magazine. I was about how the price drops.
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Any commodity tech is the same. I'd bet a Mac would hold its value way better than a similarly spec'd generic PC.
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Macs hold their value far better than PC's, imo - and the display on the new iMac's is stunning when you actually see it hands on.
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The thing about Mac's is that most people want the newest macs so there is many old cheap macs to be found
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Macs do hold their value better than a generic pc, but that pretty well countered by the fact you pay much more for an equivalent mac.
Over the course of a few upgrade cycles, even if a person sells the old mac to recoup some costs you're still paying a lot more for macs. Personally I don't get the appeal of paying so much more for the same thing, but to each their own.
And compared to OS4 hardware its still a bargain :)
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Except that OS4 hardware keeps it's value while old Mac hardware does not. ;-)
TrevorD
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Pretty sure this new iMac's screen is delicious, but I'd have some reservations about whether or not it has enough GPU horse power to really do it justice. When Apple first released iMacs with 2560x1440px IPS panels, they looked great but the performance of the first iteration was meh.
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Macs may or may not hold value well, but they certainly hold UP very well. I had an iBook last four tough Iraq deployments whereas PCs were dying left and right. My friends that had Macs were in similar situations to me.
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Except that OS4 hardware keeps it's value while old Mac hardware does not. ;-)
TrevorD
no denying that fact & our classics in good shape STILL fetch great (sometimes insane) prices
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Except that OS4 hardware keeps it's value while old Mac hardware does not. ;-)
TrevorD
Hmmm Classic stuff yes, but I have seen used Sam440s/460s sell for really low prices.
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Guess I missed the value train last time I price checked my SAM 440ep complete machine. Paid a grand for the mobo/ram and OS 4.1 back in 2008 and earlier this year the best offer I got on it was 200 euros if I was willing to cover shipping to England for the whole machine, including case, PSU, and the 2 SSD's and 1 SATA DVD-RW that are in it.
I resigned myself into simply using it as a doorstop a few years down the road versus taking such a financial beating on what still is a a pretty fun little machine. Couldn't even find anyone to trade me a decent "legacy" Amiga like an A3000 or A4000 for it :/
I imagine the X1's hold their value far better, but I've seen the SAM boards at basically giveaway prices compared to what people paid for them new.
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I imagine the X1's hold their value far better....
I've been meaning to try flogging my A1XE for awhile now but haven't got around to it.
Now that I know I'll be able to upgrade it to 4.1 for about 30 quid *and* the tantalising prospect of a potential OctaMED port, I finally have a "compelling-enough" reason to hang on to the old warhorse. No need to flog an undead horse. :)
Back on topic:
Yes, the new iMac looks like a lovely piece of kit.
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1. Yeah that new iMac is really nice
2. The only intel Mac I have around here is a 2010 base model iMac that I bought 2nd hand in 2011, still going strong and would still sell for a real sum today
3. OS4 HW (and I'll just assume you mean NG here as the market for CS/BPPC is a collectors one with different rules) only holds it value so good because there is relativly low supply with new HW neither really improving over the last one nor getting much cheaper.
Prices would drop to rockbottom once someone somehow manages to offer G5-class performance at a price that is actually inline with it's computing value (just look up some ARM based stuff like the AmazonTV-box or the ODROID-U3+ to get an idea).
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Guess I missed the value train last time I price checked my SAM 440ep complete machine. Paid a grand for the mobo/ram and OS 4.1 back in 2008 and earlier this year the best offer I got on it was 200 euros if I was willing to cover shipping to England for the whole machine, including case, PSU, and the 2 SSD's and 1 SATA DVD-RW that are in it.
I resigned myself into simply using it as a doorstop a few years down the road versus taking such a financial beating on what still is a a pretty fun little machine. Couldn't even find anyone to trade me a decent "legacy" Amiga like an A3000 or A4000 for it :/
I imagine the X1's hold their value far better, but I've seen the SAM boards at basically giveaway prices compared to what people paid for them new.
yes the 440ep is not as desired as the flex boards due to not being able to upgrade the video card if i recall & that reflects its resell value; however, I used my old Samflex@800 for 2 years before buying my X1000 & sold it for basically what I paid for it as at that time the 460 had yet ton be released so its also about supply & demand in the market with NG stuff & resell pricing.
let's not even try to guess classic prices especially for accellerator cards as the market has always been insane!
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Pretty sure this new iMac's screen is delicious, but I'd have some reservations about whether or not it has enough GPU horse power to really do it justice. When Apple first released iMacs with 2560x1440px IPS panels, they looked great but the performance of the first iteration was meh.
5K display paired with a GPU with 2GB.... what a joke... thanks apple
In my experience, to run 5760x1024 (for gaming) sometimes a single r9 290x can't get the job done and you need two....
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a) who buys a Mac for gaming
b) if you run FPS-based games there is 0 point at useing the native resolution even if your eyesight 100%
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5K display paired with a GPU with 2GB.... what a joke... thanks apple
In my experience, to run 5760x1024 (for gaming) sometimes a single r9 290x can't get the job done and you need two....
Uhm, a single 280x isn't even close to playable framerates at 4k even.
The spanking new fast Geforce GTX 980 can't handle 4K good enough on it's own either and it's a lot faster then the 280x, near 70% faster overall in gaming performance (also the 280x is basically just a 7970).
Also the 280x in crossfire ain't enough to pull off 4K in modern games even, 2x GTX 980 in SLI is starting to get close to a steady acceptable framerate in 4K.
Don't forget that 5K (5120x2880) resolution is a staggering 67% more pixels then 4K (3840×2160).
And since not the top gaming cards in SLI/CF can handle 4K yet there is no chance in hell that iMacs can even come close to handle 5K in games with the mobility graphics circuits (Mobility Radeon R9 M290X and M295X).
So the iMacs god awful to slow GPU's can't even get close to handle gaming in 5K.
Also please explain "in my experience" since the 280x don't even come close to 60fps as maximum FPS in 4K. So what games are you talking about that 2x 280x can handle in 5K and a single one can since not even 2x 280x can handle most tiles in 4K?
Nah, if anyone want's the new iMac it ain't for gaming in 5K, it will play in way lower resolutions then 5K.
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Macs may or may not hold value well, but they certainly hold UP very well. I had an iBook last four tough Iraq deployments whereas PCs were dying left and right. My friends that had Macs were in similar situations to me.
Well even if the hardware survives, Apple will make a door stop out of it soon enough. often well before the hardware's useful life.
I'm running Win 8 on a circa 2006 Portege M400 with a Core Duo and 2 Gb ram. It flies. I do everything on it-net, email, office, media playback, youtube, streaming etc
I doubt any circa 2006 Apple product can even run a current we browser.
PC for me all the way.
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Played WoW for about an hour on a new iMac tonight and it was a stunning experience.
Not that WoW is a particularly taxing game, but the machine didn't skip a beat and the display is glorious.
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I don't understand how people can't grasp the idea that you can get better results with a PC by paying less money, a lot less. It happens at work as well, it drives me nuts. :)
The iMac doesn't give you anything special, it's the hardware. The hardware found in an iMac is nothing more than PC hardware and usually the graphics card in a iMac is a cut down version of the PC equivalent.
The iMac has no magic or special sorcery chip inside. I can assemble a much more powerful machine by just buying parts and a decent monitor for a lot less.
For example, when Apple talk of retina display for its phones and computers everyone starts drooling over them when in actual fact my Chinese phone has had a higher pixel density than "Retina" for almost two years. Iphone 6 Plus (2014) = 401 PPI vs my 2012 Chinese phone = 480 PPI.
It seems that brand names still have the desired effect! ;)
Oh and you can't upgrade the bloody things... :)
The reason why people are attracted to Apple products is the "sex appeal", the aluminium, the "thinness", the all-in-one factor, the "exclusivity" but a properly specced PC smashes an iMac any time.
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I suppose that you better understand Amigans :)
Kamelito
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Apple stays in business not for their superior hardware, which quite frankly on the PC end of things is just commodity hardware that's in any other PC stuffed into a slickly designed case, but for the whole experience. Owning a Mac is a real smooth ride, the hardware and software combined make for a real nice out of the box experience for people not into Windows, and said people are willing to pay the premium for the experience.
The people I know who buy Mac's buy them because they prefer OSX. That's not to say one cannot make a Hackintosh, because you can with very little trouble. These people know that a similarly equipped Windows PC would be much cheaper, but millions of people a year keep buying Mac's. This being said, the new 5k display on the iMac is really, really impressive when you use it. I spent more money on my 4k capable gaming PC than I would have versus buying a new 5k iMac. I'm not a Mac user, so on a personal level the things really don't interest me, but they are just gorgeous display wise. Said Mac wouldn't run the games I would require it to, so even if it was $1500 cheaper, it still wouldn't be an option for me. I'd recommend everyone try one of the new iMac's, even if you have no interest in owning one. They are really, really nice to use, and the display will stun you.
Same goes for iPhone's and iPad's. The hardware is nothing special, specs wise. The cheap Android phone I am currently using (Alcatel Idol X+) has a display that rivals the iphone. My Android tablets were half the price of an ipad, etc. People but the Apple products for the full experience, and in the case of iOS devices, for the ecosystem and OS itself. The Android apps ecosystem still pales in comparison to the iOS one, and I say that as a happy, fulltime Android user that owns several Android devices.
I've always found the Apple hate ironic within the Amiga community, really.
People gripe constantly about overpriced Mac's, but have no qualms about shelling out $3000+ for an X1 :)
My SAM, after I ended up building it, with OS, mobo, HD's, case and everything else it needed components wise cost me more new when I bought it in 2008 that an iMac would have. Friends IRL told me that I was a lunatic for spending that much money on this "godforsaken" platform, but I don't ever regret buying it.
It's fun, and that's all I expect out of a computer. That to me is the great thing about modern computing - choice.
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Does it come with a DVD/Blu-ray drive? Apple products are for idiots who have more money than sense. I can understand when there was a difference between CPUs one could argue that a PowerPC was better than a Intel equivalent. But macs of today are just PC crap packed in a Apple box!
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People gripe constantly about overpriced Mac's, but have no qualms about shelling out $3000+ for an X1 :)
Yeah the X1 is at least unique in some way. It is not some load of common PC generic parts in a apple case with a premium price tag attached to it.
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>>Apple stays in business not for their superior hardware, which quite frankly on the PC end of things is just commodity hardware
No. They are both commodity hardware. It's just that being Apple's products less common they mantain an aura of exclusivity. It's all the marketing and hype built over the years...it's still working although I don't know how much long for. Also Apple have managed to cut themselves a niche market (DTP, Graphic Design) but wanting to do DTP+Graphic Design on any PC+Windows there would be no problem at all at achieving the same results.
>>Owning a Mac is a real smooth ride
Nope. I have 3 at home and they are not a smooth ride at all. I work with about 200 iMacs every day and they are a pain in the neck in a network environment. They freeze often, the multicoloured ball comes up and you can't do much. They are not well supported...I could go on.
>>The hardware and software combined make for a real nice out of the box experience for people not into Windows, and said people are willing to pay the premium for the experience.
True but isn't that much different than with Windows 7.
>>The people I know who buy Mac's buy them because they prefer OSX.
Good on them... :)
>>Millions of people a year keep buying Mac's.
Many more millions buy PCs with Windows 7 etc...installed so?
>>This being said, the new 5k display on the iMac is really, really impressive when you use it.
Again...it's made for them by Samsung?!
>>Same goes for iPhone's and iPad's. The hardware is nothing special, specs wise.
Correct.
>>The Android apps ecosystem still pales in comparison to the iOS one
True. 88% of Smartphones run Android so you're never going to have a tidy, controlled ecosystem, it's based on Linux after all... :D
>>I've always found the Apple hate ironic within the Amiga community, really.
Nope. No hate. Just facts. :)
>>People gripe constantly about overpriced Mac's, but have no qualms about shelling out $3000+ for an X1 :)
A completely different thing. Different economies, different users, different market, apples and oranges indeed. :D
Freedom of choice...absolutely, it swings both ways though. ;)
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Does it come with a DVD/Blu-ray drive? Apple products are for idiots who have more money than sense. I can understand when there was a difference between CPUs one could argue that a PowerPC was better than a Intel equivalent. But macs of today are just PC crap packed in a Apple box!
If you don't like it don't buy it but don't write that those who bought Mac are idiots.
I've a Mac laptop from 2008 and I haven't had any issues with it software and HW wise since. I bought my wife a VAIO in 2009, the motherboard has been changed twice, the DVD drive once, and the trackpad twice too. Now it has a problem with the power adaptor so she barely use it and it was just 200euros less that the Mac with half the RAM.
Kamelito
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Any commodity tech is the same. I'd bet a Mac would hold its value way better than a similarly spec'd generic PC.
Absolutely. The last few Macs I've sold have sold for about 70-80% of the price I bought them for new.
My last Macbook Pro I paid about £900 for and sold for £650. The Macbook I had before that was £899, I sold that for £700.
My last desktop PC cost around £800, 3 years later I swapped it for a crate of beer, the one before that I gave away. There is no money in selling used-PCs, but Macs certainly keep their value.
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Hmmm Classic stuff yes, but I have seen used Sam440s/460s sell for really low prices.
Yeah, I've seen A1XEs listed for around £250 recently and they've not sold even.
Agree on Commodore gear though, that is going up in value every year.
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Guess I missed the value train last time I price checked my SAM 440ep complete machine. Paid a grand for the mobo/ram and OS 4.1 back in 2008 and earlier this year the best offer I got on it was 200 euros if I was willing to cover shipping to England for the whole machine, including case, PSU, and the 2 SSD's and 1 SATA DVD-RW that are in it.
I resigned myself into simply using it as a doorstop a few years down the road versus taking such a financial beating on what still is a a pretty fun little machine. Couldn't even find anyone to trade me a decent "legacy" Amiga like an A3000 or A4000 for it :/
I imagine the X1's hold their value far better, but I've seen the SAM boards at basically giveaway prices compared to what people paid for them new.
Same with my A1XE, I paid over £700 for it new, £110 for OS 4.1 and the case alone was £250. But I've seen A1XEs listed at £200-300 and not sell so I may as well just keep it for that price I guess.
An A3000/4000 is worth a lot more than a 440 though, A4000 average price seems to be around £400-600 for a stock system, and they always sell.
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But that is because of what I said above...rarity = price increase.
There are only two "competing" Operating Systems for desktop use really: OSX and Windows so why are we comparing Amigas to Apple?
The reason why classic Amigas sell for more it's because of the nostalgia factor. When Commodore was big it had millions of Amiga 4000, 1200, 500 etc... users. People who buy them nowadays are people who know what they are and actively search for them.
Who is going to look for an A1XE or even a SAM? Only the die-hard user who knows what it is.
Also the older the hardware the more appealing it becomes.
Surely you didn't buy a SAM+OS4 as a short term investment did you? :)
People only know about PC (Windows) and Apple, that is it. The general consumer that is.
And of the two (thanks to its clever marketing/hype/advertising/design and I'll chuck in the OS as well) the iMacs retain more value but that is not to say it's down to the incredible hardware...you can get 5K displays for PCs, I even saw AmigaOS 4 running on a 4K monitor, it looked beautiful... :)
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I don't understand how people can't grasp the idea that you can get better results with a PC by paying less money, a lot less.
Can you post a link to where I can get a comparable PC, including this lovely display, for "less money, a lot less"?
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No links to give you but if you're into building PCs yourself you can do it for the same, less or slightly more but with added advantages like a more powerful graphics card, this all depends on where you shop obviously.
First don't forget that Apple put huge orders in. For example millions of 27" 5k from Samsung (I think it's Samsung that makes the screens for Apple) so they can afford to "give it away" for less when you compare it to a PC builder who has to buy parts from a shop.
But let's say you wanted the Dell 5K 27" Ultrasharp screen which on its own gives the advantage of being a separate screen (not inside the machine) this is, for me, a big plus. This is about £1500. £600 for a motherboard, 8GB DDR3, i5 3.5GHz and an ATI 290x 4GB DDR5 NOT the cut down M version Apple offer on their site with 2GB, 1TB hybrid drive. £2100. This gives you the advantage of upgrading whenever you want, on the iMac you can JUST upgrade the memory yourself anything else and it's a trip to Apple. :)
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No links to give you but if you're into building PCs yourself ...
Which immediately makes this apples v oranges.
First don't forget that Apple put huge orders in...
Irrelevant to the question and even more irrelevant to your original claim.
But let's say you wanted the Dell 5K 27" Ultrasharp screen which on its own gives the advantage of being a separate screen (not inside the machine) this is, for me, a big plus. This is about £1500.
And as far as I can tell, still unavailable for purchase.
I've yet to see a comparable system for much less than the price of a new iMac (starts at £1999) but am happy to be corrected.
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>>Which immediately makes this apples v oranges.
No, Apple vs Amiga = apples vs oranges.
I never said a thing about PC manufacturers, I was talking about people who build PCs themselves and if you have that kind of cash you can spec a better PC yourself.
All I am saying is that if I were a PC manufacturer I wouldn't offer those specs as they know that PC gamers would expect to run games at 5k but those specs will not even do 4k at a decent frame rate. That is probably why no PC manufacturer is offering it. Yes if you want to look at pretty pictures, want to have a massive desktop, do DTP, surf the web, fine. But Windows users play games.
Also I like to know that if I want to put a dual (SLI) Titan or future (next 3-6 months) gen card, change the hard drive myself, install 64GB...I can... :)
The Dell 5K 27" Ultrasharp screen is going to be, other manufacturers will follow so not a huge problem. I can wait and feel no need to jump in to get an iMac... ;)
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I was talking about people who build PCs themselves and if you have that kind of cash you can spec a better PC yourself.
Point me to one with equivalent specs for a lot less money then.
One that I can buy now (so the monitor you previously mentioned won't cut it).
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As I already said, I've yet to see a comparable system for much less than the price of a new iMac (starts at £1999) but if you can spec one, I am happy to be corrected.
Otherwise your point is bogus.
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You aren't going to build a comparable PC to the new iMac for the money. No way, no how. Not to mention there's some special interconnect logic in the new iMac's that let it perform far better than comparable off the shelf hardware. You'd have a rough time driving even a 4K monitor on a Windows PC with an off the shelf 700 series (700m series comes in the new iMac). I know this because I have tried, lol - which is why I went with Titan cards.
My 4K monitor alone was $700 list price. A single 780 Ti is another $500-$600, and you'd want 2 of them on a PC to optimally run *even 4K*.
PSU to run that? Couple hundred bucks. Mobo the same. CPU, $200-$300 minimally. A nice case to fit 2 full slot, off the shelf graphics cards in? $150 at least.
The Dell UltraSharp 27 Ultra HD 5K Monitor lists for $2500 alone... I'd expect it to be $2000 minimally on a good day once the thing is actually released.
"Look for the Dell UltraSharp 27 Ultra HD 5K Monitor to appear on store shelves during fourth quarter with a sticker price of (brace yourself) $2,500."
Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2602870/dells-27-inch-5k-monitor-packs-almost-twice-the-pixels-of-4k-displays.html
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As I said, I could build you a better specced PC for £2100.
Read my post above, I am talking about PC builders not manufacturers. You can buy the iMac I won't as it can't run games at 5k resolution properly.
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@Duce
The iMac has an M290x inside. Can you upgrade it?
I can build you a similar specced machine with the full 290x 4GB for £2100. That is GBP not US dollars by the way...
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With what 5k monitor for that price?
Not the Dell. And a Windows PC would struggle to run 4k on one 290, let alone a 5K display. I've tried doing it with 4k, hands on. The results suck, and whatever Apple is doing with the interconnect to drive the 5K monitor, it works well.
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Post #20 of this thread.
I give up...enjoy the new iMac... ;)
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In other words, the $1000 5K monitor you had in mind doesn't exist :)
If you know of a reasonably priced one, please share - I'd love to have one, but I'm not paying $2500 for the Dell one when it hits the shelves.
I won't be buying an iMac. I'm a PC guy waiting on components that are backordered for my new build.
The below is my build sheet, which I'd consider fairly decent for driving 4K. $1300 more expensive than the base 27" iMac, without a monitor, but admittedly far beefier hardware.
http://i58.tinypic.com/33vyucy.jpg
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Wow can of worms. I use both PCs and macs. For audio windows does not come close. That goes for android too. But anyway was just impressed with the screen. Would be great for audio too all that real estate
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"For audio windows does not come close"..
You're kidding right ?
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@Duce
It exists, you know it, I know it, Asus are working on 5K monitors. The PC market drives technology forward, it's been like that for years.
The one you're going to build is lovely...let's just say that if you're into building PCs, it's a lot more fun than buying an iMac and no I have no intention of buying a 2k, 4k or 5k...too expensive for me... :)
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For audio windows does not come close. That goes for android too. But anyway was just impressed with the screen. Would be great for audio too all that real estate
Say what?
Don't go logic pro x vs ableton vs cubase discussion, all have pros and cons OSX aint doing audio production better than Windows nowdays.
It's all about the producer not the software or OS flavour.
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i7-4790k, 480gig sata3 ssd (Kingston), mobo, 32gig ddr4@3000mhz, gf 780ti, 5k screen
cost me $1800 aud./$1600 USD all up (granted, I get screens at 50% off though). Im a little shocked at the prices people mention for pc gear. Usually seems a lot more than I experience.
How does this compare to a mac? (pretty much rhetorical, I know the answer)
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I doubt any circa 2006 Apple product can even run a current we browser.
PC for me all the way.
Well, my 2005 Apple Powerbook G4 1.67 GHz runs a pretty decent browser: Odyssey 1.24 to be precise. Sure, a certain OS switch was required, but who wants OS X anyway..?
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So paying double or more for the same PC hardware in an "Apple" case. If you really want to run OSX you can without the Apple price tag. Plenty of FAQs out there on how to do it.
I'd rather have http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tXqJNG :-)
Sure the Dell 27" 5k monitor is $2500 but the prices will drop very quickly when more come to market.
Plus you're not stuck with an all in one which is hard to upgrade. Plus the number of motherboard faults (logic board faults as Apple calls it) I've seen I'll pass :-)
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Macs hold their value far better than PC's, imo - and the display on the new iMac's is stunning when you actually see it hands on.
Not sure about monetary value..but I bought a 17" PowerBook G4 brand new in 2006 for over
3k with Apple care. It was my first laptop and have used it every single day(not a lie) since.. It still remains my only laptop, in fact it is my only "modern" computer. I never had one issue, knock on wood. I dont "have" to upgrade but I want to :).
I can safely say that I have gotten my moneys worth out of the machine..Not sure a PC bought in the same year would be as useful or have performed flawlessly like my trusty
ol G4. Even started a FB page PPCMacs when I had issues with not having the latest flash player, which isn't compatible with PPC. I posted a hack which has worked just fine.
Rich
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How tasty does that look/. 14.7 millions pixels. 5k screen. Yes 5K
wish I had spare £3K
My brother has ordered one, can't wait to see it.
Re: pc builders, how is the constant upgrade cycle treating you all there?
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>>Re: pc builders, how is the constant upgrade cycle treating you all there?
The constant upgrade is voluntary and not imposed. If I wanted I could also keep running the same medium range PC for as long as I like or decide to put another 32GB of Ram inside my PC to go up to 64GB and add another graphics card in SLI/CROSSFIRE mode.
How do you that on an iMac? ;)
Also software and gaming evolve, 3D software requires more power etc...but it's up to you to decide whether do upgrade or not.
Depending on what you want to do with your machine you upgrade it or not. Some people are running Amigas with stock configurations, some have PowerPC boards and a graphics card...
If I think that Call of Duty Advanced Warfare is worth upgrading my PC, I get a new CPU, more memory and a better graphics card.
http://www.callofduty.com/advancedwarfare/media/discover-your-power
Nobody is telling me to do it...it's up to me. :D
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Yeah, the ability to upgrade when and what I want is great.
It's not like software ceases to function if I don't constantly upgrade, but if somewhere down the track a piece of software comes out where having something upgraded is enough of a benefit to bother with then it's good to be able to upgrade that component easily.
I tend to pick carefully too, so to syphon parts down to my aros or amithlon machines when I do eventually upgrade something. This way buying one component can effectively upgrade 2 or 3 machines.
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I don't like iMacs. Mac Pros (new and old), MacBooks (pro and air), PowerMacs (G4 and G5), PowerBooks, Mac Minis, Cubes, ... sure, but iMacs is not my thing. Of course I would still spend thousands to buy an iMac over a cheapo Windows PC, and I would still spend even more to buy a good old (or new) Amiga.
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If you don't like it don't buy it but don't write that those who bought Mac are idiots.
I've a Mac laptop from 2008 and I haven't had any issues with it software and HW wise since. I bought my wife a VAIO in 2009, the motherboard has been changed twice, the DVD drive once, and the trackpad twice too. Now it has a problem with the power adaptor so she barely use it and it was just 200euros less that the Mac with half the RAM.
Kamelito
That 2008 laptop- does Apple still support it with its current OS?
Because history shows they kill hardware by not supporting in the OS, then so do the web browsers, and in the internet age, you now have a door stop made of fully functioning hardware.
Planned obsolescence.
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@Duce
It exists, you know it, I know it, Asus are working on 5K monitors.
If it exists please post the link where I can buy it.
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i7-4790k, 480gig sata3 ssd (Kingston), mobo, 32gig ddr4@3000mhz, gf 780ti, 5k screen
Can you provide details i.e. brand/model of that 5k screen?
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The upgrade issue is not an IMac only issue. It's an AIO issue. Of course you cannot simply open a panel and add a new graphics card, be it on an iMac, Visio All in one, Dell, HP, or any other brand AIO, for the most part. While they are commodity guts in them, they are still special form factor just to fit in the AIO case. Some you cannot even upgrade the RAM on, esp. the low priced PC AIO's. iMac's you can add more RAM, including the new one. It's standard DDR3L and easily accessible.
There's dozens of other vendors that make all in one or one piece PC's. While there's some truth to the idea you're buying planned obsolescence, it's the form factor at fault, not an iMac only issue.
No different than a laptop - can't just throw a new gfx card in one of those whenever you like. Personally, my biggest fear on AIO's has always been a display panel conking out on a person 1 day after warranty expires.
Good teardown on iFixit - https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+Teardown/30260
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I bought a Mac Mini (which sits proudly on my A2000 :)) and it's been the most solid piece of hardware I've had in awhile. I don't know maybe Im easily impressed, but all the ports are USB 3, and the RAM is easily upgradeable to 16 GB just by turning the latch on the bottom. I think the 2014 version might even do 32 GB. And while I normally run Linux on it (nothing can beat its memory usage) OS X is pretty...and some of the features are actually innovative. Like if the recovery partition is gone, the mac can boot to the internet and download a copy of OS X...no license keys to keep track of. Works well if one accidentally...uh hypothetically....erases his hard drive.
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If it exists please post the link where I can buy it.
Post 47 and 51
You can always make do with one of these in the meantime:
Samsung U28D590 28"
Tear down or not you can't upgrade the graphics card and I would NOT want to open it (removing the glue, taking it apart, upgrade, re-glue it...no way) when it costs £2000.
The minute the 5K monitors hit the shelves price will come down, PC gamers will want to run their new game at 5120×2880 and not just look at static screens.
This is way cooler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZCla-omFyA
:)
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So the short story here is:
If your a l33t gamer (iMac buyers are very rarely) have the skills and time to built a system from scratch (still not the typical iMac demography) can live with having a full tower cluttering over your desk (completly different market, but who cares) and are willing to spend a few 100$ more you can buy something better than that iMac.
Well not really, as you also have to wait a few months for the components to become available.
So yeah it's prooven that iMac costs twice as much as it should !!!
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The iMac is an AIO. The upgrade potential of an iMac is no worse than any other AIO PC.
If you are comparing an AIO to a full tower, 110% fully upgrade capable piece-built PC, you're really grasping at straws comparisons wise. Ford vs. Chevy arguments are silly.
Two completely different beasts. By that logic, the iPad or iPhone, or any other device that cannot be upgraded by the user is a POS. Yet people still buy them by the millions every single quarter, and market share is growing year over year for all these overpriced products.
AIO's aren't for me, nor you apparently. That doesn't make them useless to the world as a whole. We could sit here for eternity and debate whether or not Apple products are overpriced as a whole, and I suspect our opinions would end up on the same page in the end :)
That doesn't change the fact that the iMac, the new one or one from 10 years ago - suits a lot of peoples needs just fine, and people buy them in spades. Some people simply have no need to expand their machines past what the factory offers. I do, some don't, and that's just fine by me. It also doesn't change the fact that in 2013, Apple sold 16 million Mac's, and I suspect a vast, vast majority were iMac's. Someone obviously finds them to suit their needs. I don't happen to be one of them, 5k gorgeous display or not.
The new 5k iMac is actually only $500 more than last rev non 5k machine, and if you can point me at a comparable 27 inch 5k monitor AVAILABLE NOW for $500 I'll eat my hat. Hell, I'll eat your hat, too.
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Post 47 and 51
You can always make do with one of these in the meantime:
Samsung U28D590 28"
Yes, it is quite nice but not exactly 5K.
Tear down or not you can't upgrade the graphics card and I would NOT want to open it (removing the glue, taking it apart, upgrade, re-glue it...no way) when it costs £2000.
It's an AIO - why would you want to open it? AIO is why you buy it - no clutter on desk.
I used to build all my PCs from parts in the past but now I just can't be bothered. Upgrades? It usually meant only chassis, kb and mouse survived the process :)
The minute the 5K monitors hit the shelves price will come down,
Sure, but for today you just can't buy one, can you?
From PC world only HP Z1 G2 workstation comes close but it costs the same as the standard non-5K 27inch iMac.
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>>Yes, it is quite nice but not exactly 5K.
It would do for a bit... :)
>>It's an AIO - why would you want to open it? AIO is why you buy it - no clutter on desk.
I answered Duce' tear down. I like opening and upgrading whenever I want that is one of the reasons I would not buy one.
>>I used to build all my PCs from parts in the past but now I just can't be bothered. Upgrades? It usually meant only chassis, kb and mouse survived the process.
Not from my experience. I usually go two to three CPUs up on the same motherboard, double the memory and two to three graphics card upgrades.
If you start at the top end you'll find it difficult to upgrade, it can still be done though.
You can't buy a 5K right now. Apple probably jumped in and ordered Samsung to make a few so they could be first, good call on their part. I'm still going to avoid it...
Got a 24" Intel based iMac (Windows 7 and OSX in dual boot, hardly use OSX), a PPC G5 iMac...in the garage somewhere, I work with them every day and in a network environment they are a pain, they are not for me. :)
Amiga on the other hand I like... ;)
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Say what?
Don't go logic pro x vs ableton vs cubase discussion, all have pros and cons OSX aint doing audio production better than Windows nowdays.
It's all about the producer not the software or OS flavour.
I am not talking about the software but the audio sub system
Well lets put it this way. I cannot get rid of latency spikes on windows drivers. There is nothing in windows API that forces good bahaviour of driver.
Audio sub system on mac is joy to use. Audio routing on mac is a breeze
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I am not talking about the software but the audio sub system
Well lets put it this way. I cannot get rid of latency spikes on windows drivers. There is nothing in windows API that forces good bahaviour of driver.
Audio sub system on mac is joy to use. Audio routing on mac is a breeze
I'm using external hardware and ASIO, both a PCI-E sound card (Asus Xonar essence STX) and a USB tracker and I do not feel the driver latency spikes you are talking about.
I am only a hobbyist enjoying my electric guitars and doing it because I enjoy it.
But friends of mine are professionals using Windows instead of OSX and we have talked about this matter on both software and hardware level with the same conclusion.
I can not answer your problems without looking at your hardware and settings/drivers.
Iv'e seen problems in latancy matters on both systems from users.
So I would not call one or another system superior for music production, I see them equal and it's down to the user.