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Author Topic: Amiga PCs on the way....  (Read 34331 times)

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Offline redrumloa

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #134 on: September 02, 2010, 06:28:50 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;577359
It's already been confirmed that Commodore USA, LLC is a legitimate Florida corporation. Confirming the Commodore B.V. and Amiga Inc. argeement may take a little longer.
 
But while would anyone question that part of the operation? The question is, is it are they really going to sell the product and when will they be ready to move forward?

I probably wouldn't buy a product I thought was greymarket or counterfit. Oh and it is an LLC, not corporation ;-)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #135 on: September 02, 2010, 06:34:27 PM »
Quote from: Argo;577356
Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?


It's a contract between two entities, what do you feel needs to be "filed", and where?
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Offline Belial6

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #136 on: September 02, 2010, 07:09:38 PM »
Quote from: tone007;577360
Selling the product is the easy part, since it already exists! Anyone on this forum could buy and resell an already existing computer after adding a sticker to it.

The only product in question is the custom C64 breadbin shaped machine, which would require new cases to be manufactured.


That is really the crux of it.

Some mom and pop PC retailer decided to run their business just like most mom and pop PC retailers, but saw an opportunity to appeal to a niche market by selling them in cases, first, that looked reminiscent of Amigas, with a commodore sticker slapped on it.  Then announced plans to make replica cases and sell PCs in those.  For those that want their PCs to look like that, great.  For those that don't, who cares what some mom and pop PC shop does?

Yes, you can buy a used Amiga cheaper.  So what?  Lots of us buy new thing that we could buy cheaper used.

Yes, this isn't the original hardware.  So what?  Many of us run emulated Amigas.

Yes, you could get the same equipment in a case that doesn't look like an Amiga/C64.  So what?  Lots of cases are purchased strictly for their looks.

Yes, they used a copyrighted image without permission.  So what?  So have the rest of us, and it is actually quite common in mom and pop shops.  It this really offends you, don't buy from them.

Yes, they are using a trademark they didn't create.  So what?  Either they have a legal right to it or they don't.  They are not fooling anyone, or even trying to fool anyone about what the actual product is.

I don't get all the hate that is heaped on this guy.  If you like the product he sells, buy it.  If you don't, don't.  I run emulation, so I like what he is presenting.  He isn't promising to release a new architecture with a new OS that is going to be better than anything currently on the market.  He isn't promising a revolution.  He is promising (promise may even be too strong of a word) stock PCs with a Commodore logo on it, and a couple of replica cases with standard PC hardware.

The Amiga community has had a lot of pie in the sky promises that never panned out.  Some that really couldn't pan out.  That doesn't seem to be what is happening here.  A couple of replica cases with PCs inside, and full AROS driver support is a lot less ambitious than many of the products we have actually seen released.

Certainly the MiniMig was a more complex project than a replica case.  Certainly AROS as a whole was a lot more complex than just the few drivers necessary to make a particular machine AROS compatible.  Certainly MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 are more complex than replica cases.  Even the Indivision and Catweasle are more complex than this.

There is nothing that has been presented so far that indicates that this modest project is not real.  So, lets just not send prepayments and wait and see.  If the machines don't show up, no problem.  We still have our money.  If they do, great!
 

Offline tone007

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #137 on: September 02, 2010, 07:45:57 PM »
..and if they don't show up or you don't feel like waiting, you can always find something similar and cheaper on eBay, if you're stuck on the computer-in-a-keyboard style.

(usually cheaper than these examples, maybe he's buying them all up? ;))

http://cgi.ebay.com/ZPCGX31SB-Cybernet-ZPC-GX31-All-in-One-PC-Inside-/220650077374?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item335fc4fcbe

http://cgi.ebay.com/Elite-4-Cybernet-Zero-Footprint-PC-80G-H-D-1-GIG-Memory-/260654346605?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item3cb035b16d

I got one of the second ones for $20, runs Ubuntu 10.04 just fine, and I did put an Amiga sticker on it.  Doesn't get nearly as much use as my netbooks or laptops, though.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2010, 07:52:00 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577364
Quote from: Argo;577356
Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?


It's a contract between two entities, what do you feel needs to be "filed", and where?


What I was implying, is that you seem to believe that someone would file a trade mark somewhere. But why would that be necessary?

Take Hyperion's settlement with Amiga Inc for example; "AmigaOS" is not a trade mark in its own, AFAIK. I'd say there is *only one mark*, and that is "Amiga". It is owned by Amiga Inc, and no-one else.

What Hyperion seems to have, is *merely an agreement* stipulating that "OK, we (Amiga Inc) will not sue you if you use our Amiga mark in the following ways 'AmigaOS', 'Amiga OS', 'AmigaONE', 'Amiga ONE', when marketing your OS4".

AFAIK, no-one would need to file anything anywhere in order to make such an agreement, and I think Commodore has a similar deal!

:)
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2010, 07:55:22 PM »
Quote from: tone007;577372
I got one of the second ones for $20, runs Ubuntu 10.04 just fine, and I did put an Amiga sticker on it.


... but ... but ... it won't be TEH REEL!!1!

It's all about *official* trade mark stickers, haven't you learned anything about *what really matters* during the last decade, haven't you been paying attention?

;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline tone007

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #140 on: September 02, 2010, 07:56:58 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577374
... but ... but ... it won't be TEH REEL!!1!


Actually, the sticker I used was an Amiga 2000 case sticker, I cut it down to say Amiga 200.

Mine is REELER!
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Offline Colin_Camper

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #141 on: September 02, 2010, 07:58:56 PM »
Quote from: dammy;577172
@ rebraist

How do you figure that?  Beta Board (mobo/cpu/ram) is 1,150 GBP.  If you add in case, gfx card, hd, dvd, and whatever else a end user wants plus UK's new 20% VAT, your probably looking at least 1,700 GBP.


Quite! And now let's put this in context. The UK is likely heading for the second dip recession.

I bought a BMW 735 on Ebay 2 years ago.

It has leather throughout, electric seats,
It's more comfy than my living room, it has an electric sunroof.
The Hi-fi is the best sounding system I have ever owned.
Everything on it works as expected. Apart from servicing I haven't spent any more money on it.
When I floor it, I hear Captain Picard say 'Engage' and the world goes streaky. Doing 100MpH on autocruise feels like 30Mph in my old Ford.

I paid £1100 for it.

Would I swap it for a hobby motherboard with a deadend processor architecture?

No M'Lud!
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Offline ajlwalker

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #142 on: September 02, 2010, 08:46:40 PM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;577316
If I had the money for an x1000, I'd stuff it all into a cannon and fire it off into the atmosphere.
If you want to do something useful with the money buy an FPGA arcade, a PC and put the rest into an AROS bounty for porting the kickstart and whatever graphics card you use.


I don't want an FPGA Arcade.  I've got two PCs (desktop and laptop) and they are uninspiring.  Maybe I will throw a few £ at the AROS bounties.

No, I think I'll stick to my backup, and go for the sam460.
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #143 on: September 02, 2010, 09:04:03 PM »
Quote from: ajlwalker;577385
I don't want an FPGA Arcade.  I've got two PCs (desktop and laptop) and they are uninspiring.  Maybe I will throw a few £ at the AROS bounties.

No, I think I'll stick to my backup, and go for the sam460.


That should leave you enough for a Natami ;)

If you would like an Amiga sticker for it maybe I could cut you one with my vinyl cutter, as an artistic project and at no profit 'cause I wouldn't be  breaking the law then ;)
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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #144 on: September 02, 2010, 09:18:57 PM »
@takemehomegrandma

I see what you are saying regarding the Trademark laws, it's interesting to see how much more specific US law is on this compared with UK law, the use of SM (service mark) is something I have never seen in the UK for example. Copyright seems to be more specific too, as in if you don't mark your work you could find yourself without any rights over it. In the UK an artists work has implied copyright no matter if it's marked or not. All he has to do is prove the original is his (or hers of course). It amazes me how any country can have such detail in the legal system, giving lawyers years of work and yet still expect citizens to know the law.

It still doesn't change the fact that a PC with an Amiga sticker is just a PC however. If AInc had any reals brains they would have offered the trademarks to the Natami team. instead.
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Offline persiaTopic starter

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #145 on: September 02, 2010, 09:42:43 PM »
Natami has no money, no hope of generating a profit and violates AI's promise to avoid AOS based commuters.


Quote from: Tripitaka;577389
@takemehomegrandma

I see what you are saying regarding the Trademark laws, it's interesting to see how much more specific US law is on this compared with UK law, the use of SM (service mark) is something I have never seen in the UK for example. Copyright seems to be more specific too, as in if you don't mark your work you could find yourself without any rights over it. In the UK an artists work has implied copyright no matter if it's marked or not. All he has to do is prove the original is his (or hers of course). It amazes me how any country can have such detail in the legal system, giving lawyers years of work and yet still expect citizens to know the law.

It still doesn't change the fact that a PC with an Amiga sticker is just a PC however. If AInc had any reals brains they would have offered the trademarks to the Natami team. instead.
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Offline Argo

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #146 on: September 02, 2010, 09:49:17 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577373
What I was implying, is that you seem to believe that someone would file a trade mark somewhere. But why would that be necessary?

Take Hyperion's settlement with Amiga Inc for example; "AmigaOS" is not a trade mark in its own, AFAIK. I'd say there is *only one mark*, and that is "Amiga". It is owned by Amiga Inc, and no-one else.

What Hyperion seems to have, is *merely an agreement* stipulating that "OK, we (Amiga Inc) will not sue you if you use our Amiga mark in the following ways 'AmigaOS', 'Amiga OS', 'AmigaONE', 'Amiga ONE', when marketing your OS4".

AFAIK, no-one would need to file anything anywhere in order to make such an agreement, and I think Commodore has a similar deal!

:)


Well, I kinda got the impression that Hyperion was suing someone, most likely Amiga, Inc.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #147 on: September 02, 2010, 09:53:44 PM »
Avoiding "AOS based commuters"? Yeah, they drive poorly (hey wasn't that an old BMW that just blew by)?

Now if Amiga Inc. is allowed to sell its IP to a seller of non-AOS computers (and its beginning to look that way), we'll just have to deal with it.
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #148 on: September 03, 2010, 12:35:56 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;577389
@takemehomegrandma

It still doesn't change the fact that a PC with an Amiga sticker is just a PC however.


...as was the Teron, Pegasos and the "X1000" computers; desktop oriented motherboards with the bog standard PC controllers, slots, connectors and other interfaces. The only difference was that those were based around PPC instead of x86, otherwise it's exactly the same PC stuff.

Quote
If AInc had any reals brains they would have offered the trademarks to the Natami team. instead.


Who say they can't? As we just have seen, one does not exclude one other! :)

Has the Natami team even asked?

Maybe Commodore could make an "AIO" computer out of the Natami when it's finished? That would be super cool! A Commodore Amiga with real but updated Amiga style HW, in a A1200 styled case! :)

I'd buy one!

:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline tone007

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #149 from previous page: September 03, 2010, 12:42:32 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577427
...as was the Teron, Pegasos and the "X1000" computers; desktop oriented motherboards with the bog standard PC controllers, slots, connectors and other interfaces. The only difference was that those were based around PPC instead of x86, otherwise it's exactly the same PC stuff.


You forgot the other (major, important) difference, those systems run OSes the standard x86 PCs cannot.  That PPC "dongle" unfortunately can't be stuck on your Dell.
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