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AuthorTopic: Pirates and TOSEC sucks  (Read 6050 times)

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Offline Ni72ous

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2003, 03:00:10 AM »
@Spyros

Quote
The site has many old and rare utilities and games for many old computers. It would be a shame for them to disappear

No it wont, they are pirates, they need to be shut down, if you want old games goto Back2Roots
Ni72ous
 

Offline Ni72ous

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2003, 03:53:32 AM »
@Spyros
If you are talking about P.E. that is.
Ni72ous
 

Offline cv643d

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2003, 03:37:47 PM »
I cant believe people still care about pirate copies on the Amiga.

68k Amiga is a mostly dead gaming platform nowdays in a comercial view.

Sites offering games for download on the net is a great thing offering people who fondly remembers the Amiga a way of remembering its games. Its like a promotion.

And the thought that Tosec is the same as piracy is wrong. I have some issues with the Tosec project but lets not be so caught up in the 1992 Amiga piracy discussion, instead look forward -10 years forward- when anyone will be able to download the complete Amiga Tosec set in 30 minutes.

Thanks to the hard work by the Tosec crew today, Amiga games will be preserved for the future.
Amiga articles
"New shell. It was finished a while back, but I still see bugs, haha" - SSolie
 

Offline Linchpin

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2003, 05:01:00 PM »
Quote
I cant believe people still care about pirate copies on the Amiga.


Haha!

Just becouse the software is old does not mean that the software developer should not give it away for free, im no coder but im guessin it aint easy to program even the simplest game. Its like you saying that coz the TV in your living room is 13 years old i can come in and watch it for free? I dont think so.

Kev  :-D
WinUAE Only... OS3.9 with 512mb ZIII ram ;)
 

Offline Belial6

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2003, 08:51:16 AM »
iamaboringperson:  Again, saying that I'm a bid dummy doesn't prove your right.  Nothing you said actually refutes my statements, and in several places you did exactly what you were accusing me of.   Is the discussion really worth physical threats?  If you would like to take any point in my statement that you think is wrong, and state your opposition to it, I'd be happy to discuss it, but so far it has been, I make a statement and you call me a big dummy.  That is not very convincing.

By the way, for all of those that are absolutists about copyright out there, it recently came to my attention that "Happy Birthday to you" is still under copyright, so before you start singing it to your loved ones, you might want to make sure that your not in violation.  :-o

Happy Birthday, We'll Sue
 

Offline reflect

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2003, 02:54:37 PM »
belial6, you seem to think that cause a text is copyrighted, you aren't allowed to sing it. That's wrong, check out the site that someone provided for you earlier. What you aren't allowed to do is make money off of it, or publish it without permission etc.

Your understanding of copyright is clearly wrong, sorry.
Read up about (c) and (tm) and then you'll understand why we are opposing you.

To the rest of you:
I'm not against old, abandoned games being put up on the net. The link that was provided in the original posting had fairly recent games, just a couple of years old and still on sale in many amiga shops, and the authors still active on either updates or new things..  and that, truly sucks. THAT was what I meant with the original posting. (I know I posted it for a friend - but this is my view on the matter.)
A sentence might have been edited out in the original post, that even named the games that was found there (I guess to make it harder to search on google or whatever)   but here's a quote from the original posting
-----
new apc-tcp games , and games like apanosin etc..
no wonder people is giving up with developing
-----
I hope this clears things up. I'm not after old applications/drivers/whatever..  I'm after the pirates that holds fairly new games. ApanoSin is a re-release of an old game, sure. But there has been additional work on it. Not sure exactly when it was released, but it wasn't that long ago.
--
These are interesting times we live in. New machines in progress, new AmigaOS in progress.. userbase slowly, slowly growing..  which is a success in itself.
 

Offline Spyros

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2003, 03:05:14 PM »
@NitrousB

The problem with back2roots is that they only have games. As far as old applications are concerned they only have AMOS Basic. The good thing about them is that they ask for permission from the copyright holders probably. P.E. on the other hand has many more old programs that back2roots doesn't have possibly because the later can't contact their authors. OK P.E. hasn't got permission but are these programs available for sale? If they were would anyone buy them? Well I wouldn't buy a 1986 ray-tracing program. Would you? These programs are useless today and I think the reason people download them is to have more complete collection of programs released on an old computer that they own. So, they are preserving old software although strictly speaking they are doing so illegaly.  If this site closes down where will you find old applications? Definitely not at the stores, neither at back2roots for the reasons mentioned above.

I would consider them pirates if they offered StormC4 for download or Hollywood or a new game by Hyperion for example.

The programs that they offer for download are not competitive and are probably of no commercial interest to their authors.
 

Offline Ni72ous

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2003, 05:20:03 PM »
@Spyro

But if you dont have the original then you have no right to it, maybe you can persuade C.A.P.S. to add a utilities/aplications sections.
Ni72ous
 

Offline Belial6

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2003, 05:30:34 PM »
I don't know what country you are in, but the site pointed to (which was only functioning with a few pages) only Applies to Australia, which has far more liberal copyright laws than other parts of the world.  Perticularly the U.S..

As for singing a copyrighted song.  At least in the U.S., it is illegal to perform a copyrighted song in public.  So, if you sing 'Happy Birthday to you' to your brother in your house, where only family members and a few close friends can hear, you are probably legal.  If you go to a restaurant, and start belting out the song, you are making a public performance of a copyrighted song, and in violation of the copyright.

You obviously don't disagree with everything I said, as you state that you are not against old abandoned games being put on the net.  That implies that you at least entertaine the idea that copyright is broken, and needs to be fixed.

The Australia/U.S. point, brings out a very good reason why saying copyright violation is "evil", is not reasonable.  Perticularly when it is followed up with the statement that it is not evil because it is illegal, but that it is evil irrelevent to the law.

The reason this isn't reasonable is because copyright is by definition 'the law'.  It is a construct our our legal systems.  The definition changes as you cross borders.

Two thing to keep in mind... 1) I never said that copyright should go away.  Just that it should be fixed to a more rational set of rules.  2) While our (U.S.) copyright laws are more restrictive than most places in the world.  The money behind the legislation to harden copyright laws, usually starts in our legal system, and when it has taken our rights away, it moves to other countries to take theirs.
 

Offline NightShade737

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2003, 09:45:58 PM »
Quote
Haha! Just becouse the software is old does not mean that the software developer should not give it away for free


So, please do tell, where can I purchase a new (not second hand) copy of Chaos Engine? (I say brand new as otherwise the authors wouldnt get any money from it).

Quote
But if you dont have the original then you have no right to it, maybe you can persuade C.A.P.S. to add a utilities/aplications sections


So, ADF versions are illegal, but the CAPS versions of said software are fine.....?

NS
 

Offline iamaboringperson

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2003, 05:23:42 AM »
Belial6, im really getting sick of your ####, and this will be the last i will post on my knowledge of copyright, and my pro copyright stance on this thread.

Quote
Again, saying that I'm a bid dummy doesn't prove your right.
where have i called you a 'bi[g] dummy' - where have i been calling you names, or making it look as thought you are stupid? and i can agree with saying that you are a bid dummy doesn't prove you right, thats not my aim.

Quote
Nothing you said actually refutes my statements,
specifics.
Quote
and in several places you did exactly what you were accusing me of.
Which is what?
Quote
Is the discussion really worth physical threats?
there were no actual threats, i was simply making a point, you moron!
Quote
If you would like to take any point in my statement that you think is wrong, and state your opposition to it, I'd be happy to discuss it, but so far it has been, I make a statement and you call me a big dummy.
i dont think i have done that at all, i have shown you the evidence, i have shown you how you are wrong, i have not at all used personal insults
Quote
That is not very convincing.
i would agree, if only i had actually done what you say...
Quote
By the way, for all of those that are absolutists about copyright out there, it recently came to my attention that "Happy Birthday to you" is still under copyright, so before you start singing it to your loved ones, you might want to make sure that your not in violation.
...it still appears as though you dont understand copyright.

Quote
... as you state that you are not against old abandoned games being put on the net.
and where have i said that?
 

Offline CoolCPU

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2003, 07:46:17 AM »
Hey _LinchpiN_,

I noticed you're using the Commodore logo as your avatar.  I believe Tulip Computers owns the rights to the Commodore logo and trademark so isn't it a violation to be using it, especially since the logo is still in use? Tulip recently gave the rights to Ironstone to spin off Commodore 64 products and create an official C64 portal. It may even look like you're a Commodore representative.  If you are, then I apologize and ask that you guys please release new C64 hardware (how about the C-1 computer?)

I'm sure nobody cares, just having a bit of a lark. ;-) ;-)

-CoolCPU - :roflmao:
 

Offline Ni72ous

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2003, 08:43:49 AM »
@NightShade737
Quote
So, ADF versions are illegal, but the CAPS versions of said software are fine.....?

Why do people always try to twist other peoples words, did i say adfs were illegal? No! i even pointed out a site that distributes adfs (Legally)
Ni72ous
 

Offline Linchpin

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2003, 08:49:45 AM »
@CoolCPU

Not a problem. Will change it now. Seems your "Mario Kart" avitar is copywrited also but seen as its on a.org, prob not your fault. Im guessin that most of the avatars here are proberbly some copywrite or another but never mind.. gotta keep on the right side of the law eh :-P

Cheers

Kev
WinUAE Only... OS3.9 with 512mb ZIII ram ;)
 

Offline CoolCPU

Re: Pirates and TOSEC sucks
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2003, 10:56:30 AM »
Hi _LinchpiN_

Ahh... I'm sorry that you removed the avatar.  I love seeing the old Commodore logo, it gives me a great sense of nostalgia.  Tulip released a press release stating that they will be going after those who use the Commodore trademark for commercial purposes only, so I'm sure your fan usage of it won't cause any harm.

Same with the Mario graphic.  I believe it is part of the default avatars in Xoops.  There are hundreds of Nintendo fan sites, magazines, etc., using Nintendo characters and I don't believe anything has happened to them.  I'm sure Nintendo knows about it, but they'd probably receive too much negative publicity if they were to start shutting down every fan site for having pictures of Mario on their web pages.  Commercial usage would be different.

So, bring back your Commodore avatar or I shall not remove my new Atari 520ST avatar!  It doesn't get much more immoral than this. :-D :-D

Just pulling your leg.  I'll change it..... eventually.  ;-)

-CoolCPU-