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Author Topic: Alien Breed 3D  (Read 5795 times)

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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« on: July 11, 2004, 10:59:57 PM »
How coincidental that this should come up. I just revisited an old mod I made for AB3D2 with new texutes/effects/models. I uploaded some screenshots of it and mentioned it over on aw.net...

here

-edit-

Incidentally, do you mean AlienBreed 3D or AlienBreed 3D II ?
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2004, 11:11:09 PM »
@xeron

If you can get / know of a *stable* RTG version of TKG I'd be very interested to know :-D

I tried to assemble the sources myself to get into it but it's such a mess I wasnt even sure where to begin :-/
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2004, 01:16:52 AM »
Quote

xeron wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the first one is a great game, and the second one is impressive for the time, but the code is such a horrible mess, how they managed to make it as stable as it is is beyond me :)


No kidding. I spent a solid month with DevPac attempting to assemble the source but couldn't get far at all. I figured just getting the exe to build would be a milestone towards a CGX version. It never happened.

Had to laugh at some of the function names though

.dothemapwotnastycharlesisforcingmetodo

:lol:
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2004, 10:56:56 AM »
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:

The main problem with an '060 in an A1200 is the AGA chipset. There is an imbalance of CPU/GFX power and really we needed an integrated accelerator/GFX card long before the still not-so-compact PPC+BVision combo.



Actually, whilst you are true in saying the AGA chipset is slow, as far as Doom style games go, once you get to 040, C2P is throttled by the chip ram bus. Even if the chipset could do chunky pixels directly, you just couldn't write the data any faster.

This shows up in later games. If you compare Doom and clickbooms' Quake conversion running on a good 060/AGA setup you will instantly see that the AGA chipset wasn't really responsible for TKG's slow performance.

The problem with TKG's engine is that it was effectively the rushed out work of one man. I'm sure if he had been given more time and better still someone else to share the workload, TKG could have been a lot more polished.

The source code was released but unfortunately it's a mess - again hinting at the above issues.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2004, 03:11:53 PM »
@TPOTG

AB3D2 is actually very good *if* you have a fast enough system to play it. I tried it on a friend's CSMK3 060 equipped Micronik Z3 A1200 tower setup. Anything less than a fast 060 just doesn't cut it :-(
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2004, 05:43:17 PM »
@itix

Well, they are poor in hindsight, but at the time, all amiga doom clones were hell bent on using chunky copperscreen trickery for their display. The 2x2 pixels were an artifact of that. It was also designed to work in a 2MB chip only A1200, so the visuals are bound to be a bit stunted.

However, consider also that this game ran in 4096 colours (12 bit RGB as opposed to 256 colours), complete with goraud shading, transparent, tinted and bumpmapped water at an playable speed on a basic A1200 with 2Mb additional fast RAM. With any kind of accelerator, it gets very smooth.

Not a bad achievement ;-)

AB3D2 had much more impressive visuals. 1x1 pixels in 256 colours, goraud shading, realtime lighting, colour dithering (I kid you not - view on a monitor) bumpmapped lightsourcable sprites, different types of transparency, vector objects etc. It was, IMHO considerably more advanced than either AB3D or DooM. It also suffered performance wise as a result.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2004, 05:47:04 PM »
Quote

Cluke wrote:
...but most of all, incredible gameplay. It had loads of atmosphere, and great level design.


Agreed. I even completed it on a stock A1200, then after I got my first accelerator (an apollo 1240 @ 25MHz) played it again :-D

Quote
Pity about the sequel.


People always slate it, but IMHO it was good, just crippled by the rush to get it out ASAP so as not to lose ground to all the other clones appearing at the time.

I wonder why nobody thought to recreate the original AB3D levels in TKG? There is absolutely no reason it couldn't be done, as far as I can see.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2004, 05:59:26 PM »
Quote

Cluke wrote:

Because the level designer was horrendously unusable? ;-)



Fair point. I installed something called LevelEd 303, which was far better. Still written in AMOS (urk) but with a normal intuition front end and also many of the functions of the other editors built in.

I still hated the vector editor though. What a nightmare. Still, I mastered it in the end tho ;-)

I've been recently pimping some screenshots on amigaworld.net of a partial mod I made and recently got running again, so I'll put them here too :-)

First set
Second set
Third set
Fourth set
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2004, 11:54:04 PM »
Quote

Cluke wrote:
Could you imagine Doom running on that? But AB3D did. To expect to be able to Amiga+M between it and WB to do a little IRC is ludicrous.


Quite :-D
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Offline Karlos

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Re: Alien Breed 3D
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2004, 03:27:45 PM »
Hehe, deathmask. I remember that. Never have I seen a more unusual (read simple) 3D engine. It really wasn't more than a texturemapped "3D monstermaze", all movement was restricted to solid steps forward, backward etc. and the rotation was fixed at 90 degree increments.

The monsters reminded me of some sort of surreal Terry Gilliam animation too.

Yet despite all this, it was actually a good laugh to play, especially head to head.

"Fears" never really inspired me much - technically competent as it was. Whilst I also found breathless a bit lacklustre, it was a big step in the right direction however. For me, the biggest downer was that the environments were just too samey, no doubt inflicted by the 'square block' basis of the map. I'm sure this approach allowed fast depth sorting etc. without a BSP, which gave it speed. Combined with the 1x1 pixel display, this was a game you didn't have to squint at and scaled very well with your hardware (unless you had an 060 of course).

Gloom was good fun. It didn't really pretend to be anything more than it was: a gratuitious shoot 'em up, just in 3D. The lack of any real 3rd dimension (that is different height/level rooms, stairs and so on) changed the feel of this into a simple maze game, which coupled with the non stop violence gave it a really bizzare atmosphere.

Genetic species was different again. It had even less 3D complexity than Gloom - in addition to the lack of stairs etc. the walls were also 90 degree (like breathless). However, the designers made sure they used the speed gained from this to create some pretty cool effects and it had atmosphere.

For me personally, the only games which actually deserved the title "Doom Clone" were AB3D1 & 2. Both had, what at the time was considered to be a 'real' 3D environment, with arbitary angled walls, different height walls, floors, lifts, teleports, stairs etc. They also allowed two level rooms and deep water, something Doom didnt have. They had a tense, dark atmosphere, and TKG in particular had effects that really made it stand out. Bumpmapped sprites, what a fantastic idea!

You can tell the game was half finished, of course. The editors allow 8 view directions for monsters but in the game you only see 4 (which was a bit naff). There were also a bunch of features you can modify with the editors that never made it into the game. With levelEd, I discovered some flickering light animations (not the slow pulsating glow effect, but your knackered fluorescent tube), even animated water depths (like a tidal effect), all of which work perfectly but weren't even documented in the original editors...
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