Market research for new PowerPC system

[Golem!dk]

I was just thinking today, "There's such a huge demand for PPC-based hardware that needs to be fulfilled".

I hear there's medication for that now.

[persia]

I think they should concentrate on a Microsoft Bob port for AROS...

[tonyyeb]

Lovely, more vaporware.

This announcement is not even over a day old and you are already making this call. Give the guy a chance... or is it that it is PPC that you don't like the idea?

[the_leander]

This announcement is not even over a day old and you are already making this call. Give the guy a chance... or is it that it is PPC that you don't like the idea?

If this guy is genuine and checks the sales numbers for both the A1 and Sam, he will run a mile.

No one outside of serious enthusiasts is going to burn large sums of money developing pretty much from scratch a brand new PPC board for desktop use in the current economic climate, or any climate for that matter.

Perhaps positioning it as a games console for developers/hardware hackers might work, but even then you're still in serious niche market territory.

Given the amount of vaporware products that have been offered to the amiga community in the past 9 years, on balance I have to say that this is probably another iWin.

I hope I'm wrong, but this seems way too good to be true.

[recidivist]

Despite the expertise of bloodline or any other person,they can only offer their OPINION.

If someone wants to  make a new PPC  and you don't like it,you could just ignore it.

Too many experts DEMAND all users/customers must follow their advice and opinion;similar to other totalitarians like the globull warming bs.

PPC is dead when no one uses it.Just because the people who drive/restore/show certain old cars/tractors/computers are a tiny percentage of  the market doesn't mean they  can't enjoy  the activity.

And a PPC Mac port of Amiga OS or MorphOS or AROS for Mac will instantly have a huge pool of computers to run on.

[the_leander]

Despite the expertise of bloodline or any other person,they can only offer their OPINION.

That swings both ways you know.

If someone wants to  make a new PPC  and you don't like it,you could just ignore it.

It's not about like or dislike.

Too many experts DEMAND all users/customers must follow their advice and opinion;similar to other totalitarians like the globull warming bs.

Ahh, so people who have a clue about markets, hardware design etc who have commented on this are by implication totalitarian..

Cute.

PPC is dead when no one uses it.Just because the people who drive/restore/show certain old cars/tractors/computers are a tiny percentage of  the market doesn't mean they  can't enjoy  the activity.

Did you actually bother to read what has been said here? Because nowhere in this thread has anyone said or implied such. What they have said is that PPC for the desktop is dead end. The more cynical (including myself) view this with a great amount of suspicion on the basis of previous trollings of the Amiga community by the likes of iWin, for instance.

And a PPC Mac port of Amiga OS or MorphOS or AROS for Mac will instantly have a huge pool of computers to run on.

No, it really wont. First there is the driver issue, which thanks to the limited resources would take months to bring up to date, second, of the three OS's you've pointed to, only one (AROS) could actually use the system due to the dualcore nature of the proposed system. The other two would have to leave one core completely idle (so far as I'm aware neither MorphOS nor AOS are SMP capable).

In conclusion:

[recidivist]

Look,if the guy is happy just selling a one time break-even  run of several hundred collector's edition PPC boards,then  fine for him.

  I've sent my personal view which is $500  is my limit on buying a new PPC board just to be different and run old Amiga apps.Which is why SAM has yet to grace my desk.Likewise $100 for an OS.
 There is just too much cheap,proven x86 and Mac stuff out there.
 My OPINION is most of the  x86 PCs being bought today are vastly overpowered for the tasks they are doing.
Only the gamers and video enthusiasts push their machines.You don't need  multiGHz for email,bank statements,web browsing is still limited by the ISP more than the user's cpu.But we LIKE driving Ferraris 30mph to the grocery store because they look cool!
It is only we get all huffy because others won't follow our advice that it becomes a problem.

[persia]

Yeah, if every manufacturer listed to the whim of the market where would we be?  Just because nobody will buy it is not a valid reason for not making it.  

Wow, I should be chairman of General Motors!

Despite the expertise of bloodline or any other person,they can only offer their OPINION.

If someone wants to  make a new PPC  and you don't like it,you could just ignore it.

Too many experts DEMAND all users/customers must follow their advice and opinion;similar to other totalitarians like the globull warming bs.

PPC is dead when no one uses it.Just because the people who drive/restore/show certain old cars/tractors/computers are a tiny percentage of  the market doesn't mean they  can't enjoy  the activity.

And a PPC Mac port of Amiga OS or MorphOS or AROS for Mac will instantly have a huge pool of computers to run on.

[DyLucke]

I don't think PPC is dead at all... IBM made a lot of money selling PPC based servers, and it still make money with that... Power 7 is around the bend, and it will catch up with Intel and AMD again. PPC's are cheaper to produce than any X86 architecture...

EVEN, XBOX360, Wii and PS3 do use PPC, and that's nothing new. I bet they will be using PPC still on their next gen consoles. So PPC is not dead at all. If you don't like "fresh air" on the PPC scene, just stick up with windoze and the X86 shit.

X86 are faster? Yeah they are, but that doesn't mean PPC's are lame or something...

[recidivist]

You couldn't be much worse than the current and past chairmen of GM or Chrysler.
Now the politicians are in charge and we have Generally Mandated and Fiasco!

Look,our mythical Greek hero is only testing the waters and evidently NOT expecting mass market appeal.You guys are like someone ridiculing a manufacturer bringing out a new line of buggy whips-he has a ready-made but small market in the Amish.
 
Amigans just might be the Amish of computing,except with poorer manners.

[the_leander]

I don't think PPC is dead at all...

PPC survives in telecoms situations. Even in telecoms (As I recently discovered) it is now in danger of being squeezed out by pure fpgas.

But in the desktop area it's day is long gone.

IBM made a lot of money selling PPC based servers, and it still make money with that... Power 7 is around the bend, and it will catch up with Intel and AMD again. PPC's are cheaper to produce than any X86 architecture...

There are niches the PPC fills nicely. Whilst PPC might be cheaper to produce then some X86 chips, the cost of developing it into a chip that can take on X86 in the desktop market and continue to do so generation after generation is an entirely different matter. The only reason PowerPC lasted as long as it did on desktop systems was because of Apple, IBM would have dropped it long before.

Power 7 may well be upon us soon, but Power is not the same as PPC and big iron is a very different market then consumer desktops.

EVEN, XBOX360, Wii and PS3 do use PPC, and that's nothing new.

Yes again, a niche product.

I bet they will be using PPC still on their next gen consoles. So PPC is not dead at all. If you don't like "fresh air" on the PPC scene, just stick up with windoze and the X86 @@@@.

Oh good gods. (oh and watch your language - kids visit this site)

X86 are faster? Yeah they are, but that doesn't mean PPC's are lame or something...

If you're attempting to gain a foothold into the desktop market with one, yes, yes it is.

If you have a niche, then you might get away with it. But this particular board would be an ill fit due to the architectural limitations of AOS/MorphOS/AROS.

If the person behind this is genuine I do wish him luck. But of his targeted OS's, only Haiku would make any sort of sense and given the response by the Haiku board linked to... Well look for yourself.

[BooBoo1200]

I don't think PPC is dead at all... IBM made a lot of money selling PPC based servers, and it still make money with that... Power 7 is around the bend, and it will catch up with Intel and AMD again. PPC's are cheaper to produce than any X86 architecture...

EVEN, XBOX360, Wii and PS3 do use PPC, and that's nothing new. I bet they will be using PPC still on their next gen consoles. So PPC is not dead at all. If you don't like "fresh air" on the PPC scene, just stick up with windoze and the X86 shit.

X86 are faster? Yeah they are, but that doesn't mean PPC's are lame or something...

Finaly something that makes scence not to mention cooler cpus and lower power consumption - Ill agrea the prices are to expensive commared to x86
I wish people would stop wingeing about PPC hardware, its oviously not dead the most obvious choice architecture for a console -
niche product and OS4 isnt?

[Chieftain]

Have to agree with DyLucke, the PPC is far from dead and to be honest, if anything has to be put out of its misery, it's got to be the x86 (both 32- and 64-bit). The only thing that keep it from obsolescence is the bloatware called Winblows, the x86 need to be fast in order to run Winblows at an adequate speed. I'm damn sure the PPC would be a lot faster than it is today if Microshaft had kept supporting it after WinNT 4.0.
There! Now I have whacked a hornet's nest with a stick and set the ant-hill on fire.

[TheMagicM]

I dont think ANOTHER motherboard will do anyone any favors.  Nobody cares.


Why not put a pot of $ together for NEW SOFTWARE to be ported or written to OS 4.x and/or MorphOS?

A nice office suite that can read/write Microsoft Office documents, a great multiplayer online game, etc.  Something that shows off what we have NOW.  The hardware is there, the software is not.   Myself, I dont care for another PPC board.  I go where MorphOS goes.  Mac Mini G4? no problem, got 2.

[TheMagicM]

Please work on funding NEW SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for the existing 2 OS's we have (MorphOS and OS4.x)

[markos]

I was pointed to this forum, I didn't know there existed a separate discussion here. Anyway, as noted in:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29594&forum=33&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#509376

I appreciate the noise, but there are a few points I'd like to mention:

* I am not a Mythical Hero.
* This is not vapourware, I do indeed plan to invest on this.
* MorphOS and AmigaOS were not target OSes in the beginning, Linux and Haiku were. Whatever you say, Linux is a huge market for embedded AND PowerPC, and Haiku has a great potential. I would like to think that this effort is not a one-off. That is, I hope to sell enough to fund the next batch and then the next and then an upgrade, and another, etc. Whether AmigaOS/MorphOS are supported that will depend heavily on the number of users that ask this and the dev teams involved. If only 10 people ask for AmigaOS support, then it's not going to happen.
* For those who haven't seen it yet, Haiku is going to do on the desktop what Linux failed to do (not now, in a few years).
* Variety is good. PPC is not dead, and unless something really bad happens -eg. Freescale/IBM close down- it won't really die.

In any case, I'll blog about the mails I receive so far, which are surprisingly enough, given that I posted this thing <24h ago.

So, I understand the sceptiscism, I really appreciate the feedback, I note everything and I will take into consideration all important comments.

About the last comment. I'm sorry, I don't see how investing money into software for the AmigaOS, will be successful. That's for the Amiga Software companies, and IMHO, that would be even more suicidal than investing in hardware, but that's just MHO.

Regards

Konstantinos

PS. Yes it's really me.