Amigakit and their customer service...

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J-Golden wrote:

If I were this dude/dudet, yes I would be anoyed at first, but then I'd be looking at the drive, the case, and my dremmel with an evil grin on my face thinking all kinds of cool ways to mount that drive...

Would you be annoyed at yourself, or at the company?

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Lorraine wrote:

This still doesn't mean Matt couldn't put a little note in bold/8point/times at the very bottom of the ad simply saying "this is a modified PC drive", unless he's worried it'll somehow put people off buying it, but then that's dishonesty in itself.

Products are often an amalgamation of parts from various vendors and often go through various manufacturing and/or re-manufacturing processes to become the final end-user product.  Did the owners of the Amiga brand on the A1200s and A600s that came from the factory with modified PC drives call them that or point that out on those particular units?  No.  Why?  Because they fit in the case, they read and write the proper disks in the proper format, and their eject button works.  Same thing here.  To the uneducated saying such could cause un-necessary confusion, and until someone says different that fact means nothing to what the product does.

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Painkiller wrote:
Did any of the modified "original" Amiga drives have custom shell modifications.

No.

So what?  He never claimed they were original.

If it was mentioned that these are modified PC drives would I have directly know that they wont directly fit for my purpose.

Yes.

Actually no.  Since you yourself admit not all original drives fit (something you figured out later).  That means it was (without asking) pot luck if they would happen to match the exact dimensions of the kind of original Amiga drives that did fit in your custom case.  They may just happen to match the dimensions of a original Amiga drive that does not fit your custom case, or they may be different than anything else.  Since he never said they were OEM or NOS so long as they fit properly in an A600 or A1200 case they have done their job.

Could it have been an original drive that wouldn't fit my purpose.

Yes. That would have been my bad.

It could have ended up being a modified PC drive that would have fit your purpose too.  Your response here is immaterial.  He never said they were original drives.

Do I think it is misleading to sell these as just Amiga parts, yes because they aren't the same as the original drives be it that some of the original drives were made from PC drives, but all with factory parts.

So even though he never said they were OEM, or original, or NOS.  You want him to list "made in a factory with the following equipment xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx, dremel".  

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Painkiller wrote:

They never claimed they weren't.

You aren't a little kid in a schoolyard anymore (at least I think).  Start thinking and acting like an adult.  You want every vendor on this earth to list everything a product isn't?  Warning this hammer is not a screwdriver!  Warning this car is not a pickup truck!  Warning, this new stretch limo started off as a regular car at one point!  Warning, this Saleen Mustang started off as a regular Mustang at one point!

 They know for a fact that these are modified PC drives they should tell it IMHO

They are Amiga drives just like they say.  If you plugged them into a PC they would not work right.  Their manufacturing process is slightly different than some others that came before it to become a Amiga drive.  So what?

There isn't a PC drive that wouldn't require further modification to fit this case. So I would have known.

When you ordered it you made the bad assumption that any drive that can fit in a A1200 case can fit in your custom tower case.  So you are making a bold unsubstaniated statement there.  And you got sold an Amiga drive.  The fact that at one point during its manufacture it could possibly have been used as a PC drive if someone so chose is immaterial.

No it couldn't have atleast I don't know any PC drive that would have the metal part of the eject button positioned same as it was in the truly original Amiga drive.

All the more reason you should have asked some questions.

There was no dremel cut shells for Amiga drives that were modified from PC ones. They had pressed metal parts and moulted plastic parts.

So what?  So friggin what?  Really?  So what?

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Didn't come to my mind at the point that someone would sell a modified PC drive and not mention about it.

I want you to try to look at this from Amigakit's perspective for a second.  Here is a guy that knows a lot about Amiga.  He knows there were 11 different OEM drive mechanisms at various times in Amiga history for these models.  Some were purpose built as Amiga only drives through the whole manufacturing process.  Some were not and equated to being PC drives at some point during the manufacturing process.

From his informed perspective he is not selling anything different at all.  And from his perspective he is trying to be informative to his customers upfront by saying the drive mechanisms may vary.  Maybe the next batch won't have the dremel cut for instance for all we know.

You are pissing on the reputation of someone who is generally highly regarded by the community and seemed to be trying to do the right thing, both in his description and in his willingness to take the drives back even though its not in his return policy that he needs to.  You are not being reasonable.  Worse, there is every indication he would have answered any and all questions you might have posed honestly, if you had bothered to take the time.

You are buying parts in what is almost 2009 for a 1992 machine.  Amigakit's average customer is not so naive and they are not a big company like Walmart to just absorb any costs just to make you 100 percent happy even though you are in the wrong.

When I ordered I didn't remember that not all A1200/A600 drives were the same.

Your problem, not theirs, and something they would have been happy to educate you on had you asked them it seems.

Build quality? Already had troubles getting one of the drives out from the 3.5" bay as one off the sides on the upper shell had bend to a wrong position during this modification process and I didn't notice it.

Thank the heavens.  Maybe there is a possibility that you will see this as a separate issue.  You think that the build quality is bad due to the dremel work thats fine and a fair opinion to hold.  And a fair one to complain about.  So long as you don't mask it like you have been as something else.  But listing that these drives at one point were PC compatibles would not tell you the build quality.  This issue has nothing to do with how they list the product on the website.  Its not a misrepresentation issue.  A fair thing for you to do would have been to complain to Amigakit on the quality issue and have seen what they had to say about that first, just between the two of you.  And worst case if they told you to piss off (or simply left if unresolved to your satisfaction), then you could have posted a friendly heads up to all on the board that you don't think the build quality of the current drives they sell is so great as a heads up.  Thats a entirely different thing then what you did.

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This description, specifically that it says 'Amiga internal drive' leads me to believe that this is in fact an Amiga branded drive.(The difference between 'brand new' and 'NOS' aren't necessarily easy to understand for non-native english speakers).

If you are a non-native English speaker all the more reason to ask questions to clarify before ordering.  Shall Amigkit have to go to the expense to get their website translated and certified as translated correctly into every language on earth?  Is there some hallucinogen that has been released into the air in northern Europe recently?  Because starting to go down that path of thinking is pretty crazy.

Between "drive mechanisms may vary" and it being almost 2009 it certainly should be assumed these are not drives that Commodore or Escom manufactured directly.  Amiga at the time was a brand.  And these drives are for that brand, like it says on their page.

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broken wrote:
I think Amigakit should just reword that description to add:

"Drive mechanism may not be compatible with aftermarket tower conversion kits. Please contact us first to inquire about compatible drives."


Done deal.

That saves everyone a hella lot of headaches about what these are intended for.

They certainly can and it might be nice for them to do I agree.  But its certainly far from necessary at the same time.

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dannyp1 wrote:

You can run across a road without looking one hundred times and not get hit.  When you get hit on the 101st time you run across does mean that you were right to do it the first hundred times.

You really feel thats a fair analogy to Amigakit selling its drives with the current description?  You really feel they were that wanton and reckless?

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dannyp1 wrote:
The point of the story was that someone eventually didn't understand the description and if adding a sentence to the description will fix the misunderstanding, why not fix it?  

If I were Amigakit I would modify it at this point slightly.  I've agreed with some of the suggestions given already.  BUT to say it needed fixing is to say it was broken.  First it was not.  It was more than reasonably sufficient.  I'm all for it being even beyond that and agree that its probably in Amigakit's best interest to do so (why not improve something if it can be).  But its not my business, nor anyone elses.  Its one thing to give friendly suggestions.  And we can all vote with spending our money at other vendors.  But its another to blame the victim in a public attack.  And in this case Amigakit is the clear victim IMHO.  He got cursed at for no good reason (and granted was apologized to and that particular attack did occur in private).  But beyond that he has been attacked in public as if he has a dishonest listing on his site.  Which is simply not the case.  And the person who is the disgruntled customer has gone way out of his way to cloud the issue and misplace blame. The fact is if it said it was made from a PC drive it would not have stopped his order, as he has admitted several times that he thought any drive that fits in an A1200 fits in his custom case.  If one really reads all he has written that become pretty apparent.  His real sour grapes is that he dosen't like how its built.  And build quality is to some degree a matter of opinion.  That is what he should have addressed with Amigakit.  If he has been honest from the get go, who knows, he might have even gotten satisfaction from Amigakit.

But I am also willing to acknowledge that I live in the US and it's very possible that customer relations here might be very different than in the UK.

I'm in the US too.  And we have been as a culture excusing the need for personal responsibility for decades now.  Its a wonder anyone wants to run a business these days at all.

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@Painkiller

amigakit wrote:

Before completing checkout, we ask customers to confirm they have read this message displayed:

"You must decide before ordering if the goods are suitable for your needs and the product is fit for the application that you are using it for. If you need further detailed information or have general queries about a product, contact us before placing an order. Check compatibility of the product carefully. We do not exhaustively publish product compatibility details on the website, so you may email us to check compatibility against individual configurations."

You failed to mention this extra bit.  This really put the last nail in the coffin of your argument.  :rtfm:

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Painkiller wrote:

What I said was I taught any A1200 drive would fit case

Well you thought wrong, as evidenced by these A1200 drives not fitting.

in which point I didn't recall that they made different A1200 floppy drives

Thats unfortunate, really.  But has nothing to do with the store you bought from.  Worse, it was a store known for good friendly customer service, but you didn't even bother with that ahead of the purchase.

Its pretty obvious you are really eaten up about this 40 something euro.  Its sadly not coming back to you.  You learned a lesson hopefully.

What I also said is that I knew that no modified PC drive would fit the case without further modification

 The fact that some original A1200 drives fit this description makes your assertion dubious at best.

Anyway this is going in circles.  If you don't get it by now I hope you one day will.

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A1260 wrote:
is it really that hard for amigakit to write and include in the text, that they are selling modified pc floppys? IS IT REEEAALLY THAT DAMN HARD1!!!!!! :-x JESUS CHRIST HOLY MARRY!!!

Obviously they didn't feel it was necessary.  Hard or easy had nothing to do with it.  If you bought toothpicks that you later found out were made from unused wooden chopsticks instead of logs of wood does it really matter if the seller specified such ahead of time, or is it extraneous information?

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A1260 wrote:
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its clearly here that IT IS necessary and amigakit is pissing in the wind... amigakit should layflat fix the text and move on, its as easy as that.

 

How do you figure that?  The webpage is quite clear from the start.  The information at checkout is very clear on top of that.  And even though his return policy (that is also clear on the website) does not indicate that he needed to take the drives back he was willing to anyway as a gesture of good service.  You are asking him to fix something that is not broken.  

you dont start a 11 pages discussion about it, period!

Painkiller started this thread.  Not Amigakit.  Would you have someone tell you how to run your business, even after you kindly gave the opinion due consideration, but just did not agree with it?  And you tried honestly to resolve the issue by allowing a return you normally do not allow?  Painkiller took extra steps to gain sympathy, saying its approx 43 euros to send back when it could be sent back for 20 something and to rub salt in the wound he wanted Amigakit to pay the higher price on its way back.  For what, spite?  Give me a break.  The only alternative he gave was that he keep the drives but get approx 20 euro for his "trouble".  Then he curses Amigakit out in email when these demands are not met.

Amigakit has other customers to think about as well and he dosen't want to confuse the info on the page based on his response.  Thats a valid opinion and his prerogative to hold.  Personally if I were Amigakit I'd choose a wording middle-ground.  I think just saying "New compatible A600/A1200 floppy drives - drive mechanisms may vary" was the best suggestion.  But its his business.

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kolla wrote:
Btw... anyone happen to  have a spare "expansion" for Infinitiv? Mine isnt tall enough with both zorro board and the Blizzard inside :-)

http://amiga.nvg.org/moro/infinitiv-daneel-2.jpg  :roll:

You just couldn't let this thread slip off the front page huh? :crazy: