Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: OlafS3 on January 23, 2012, 09:58:11 AM
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I have asked this to gpsoft, the owner of Directory Opus Magellan II:
The other question is, would it be
possible to open the source (f.e. for using it in Aros) and how much would you want to have for it? I would ask to make a bounty for it, perhaps there is enough interest.
And the answer was:
For the source, we would want something like A$5-10K.
What do you think? Should we make a bounty?
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I doubt that we could collect that much.
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I guess one should 1st clear up in what stage these sources would be.
Pure C or some 68k-ASM thrown into it ?
Documented or wild spaghetti-code ?
Uses undocumented features of AmigaOS or just the public API ?
Next step would be deciding what the goal is here:
- just another desktop for AROS (Scalos has just been ported)
- act as an addon to Wanderer
- completly replace Wanderer on AROS-distros
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From all camps? I think it could be possible
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I think having Dopus Mag2 open source would be fantastic. It's something that all camps would probably enjoy. I doubt any os4, mos, or aros users would turn thier noses up at the idea of native versions for thier platforms of choice and 68k users could benefit from bug fixes, and any changes/improvements made along the way.
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it f.e. works in the Aros 68k version so it is propably not using undocumented things...
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@JuMa
Dont under estimate the money the remaining amiga users are willing to spend. AROS users got poseidon open sourced, at the cost of near to $5k, OS4 people have a similar amount invested in Firefox, and so on and so forth.
Combine all camps and even $10k doesnt appear too much of a stretch.
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From all camps? I think it could be possible
I think it already runs on MorphOS?
I wouldn't know myself though, had no reason to try, since the MorphOS workbench (Ambient) already implements most of the key features I would most likely be wanting to use from Magellan, so...
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no it does not. It is propably imitating some of the features but it is not running Magellan.
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The 68k Dopus Magellan II works pretty well on Morphos.
I am still using it more than Ambient.
Only thing I am missing is support for large files.
So I would definitely donate to make it Opensource but I am
skeptical the sum can be reached.
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Lets try it. The response is very positive so I think it is possible.
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no it does not.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it then, but at least Magellan 2 *did* run on MorphOS. It was very commonly used as an Ambient replacement back in the early MorphOS days, since the Ambient back then was quite limited:
http://jpv.wmhost.com/dopus-magellan2/ (also see the FAQ link from that page for details in tweaking)
I know that this linked-to article was for MorphOS 1.4, but is there really any reason to believe it won't run on MorphOS 2? If someone has bothered to try, please make a post! ;)
It is propably imitating some of the features but it is not running Magellan.
Well, as I said, for my own perspective, most of the Magellan 2 features and functionality that *I personally* would be interested in, are already integrated native in the MorphOS workbench called Ambient, in a very nice way. Maybe it would help to rise interest from MorphOS users if you (or someone else) would compile a list of the benefits of choosing Magellan 2 instead of Ambient?
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Next step would be deciding what the goal is here:
- just another desktop for AROS (Scalos has just been ported)
- act as an addon to Wanderer
- completly replace Wanderer on AROS-distros
I'd like to emphasize what Kronos said. What is the goal? This must be defined precisely. And maybe even more important thing, WHO would continue the development? Someone has to be assured BEFORE the 5k is spent.
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I guess one should 1st clear up in what stage these sources would be.
Pure C or some 68k-ASM thrown into it ?
Documented or wild spaghetti-code ?
Uses undocumented features of AmigaOS or just the public API ?
Next step would be deciding what the goal is here:
- just another desktop for AROS (Scalos has just been ported)
- act as an addon to Wanderer
- completly replace Wanderer on AROS-distros
I'll answer you m8.
1:Its Mix of C and Asm (heavily on ASM though)
2:Its Spaghetti
3:Its Both OS friendly(API) and non friendly.
@all
as i have tried to say before and on AW, this is not for beginners at all, GuruMeditation bought a liscense for OS4 version of Dopus Mag many years ago and even though there was many talented ASM developers who'd happily help failed or figured out that it would need an insane amount of work and time.
i'd happily support this bounty but i want to see goals and i want to know the actual guys who will work on it, saying Opensource won't mean much to me as while it might be positive i still think we need dedicated developers for it (atleast until there is a rewrite etc of the code).
Keep in mind that DopusMAG takes over the whole workbench, all funtions gets mapped etc, yes you can start it as an app/tool type of thing after you have booted up the system (and workbench/wanderer/ambient etc)but it still maps the OS stuff as well as add quite a lot of new functions aswell (or atleast many of them was "new" back when DopusMag1 and 2 was in its heyday.
@takemehomegranny
a lot must have changed in MorphOS1.4 -> 2.7 (and soon 3.0) for sure so i am not entirely sure if dopusMAG2 works as good as it used to run on current morphos versions compared to back in the day.
Also yes, both OS4 and Morphos has indeed used ideas based on Dopus4,Dopus Mag etc but its far from the whole package really, but then again........
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Also yes, both OS4 and Morphos has indeed used ideas based on Dopus4,Dopus Mag etc but its far from the whole package really, but then again........
You really can't group OS4's workbench together with MorphOS's Ambient in this context; they play in different leagues altogether, they are miles apart. OS4's workbench might have improvements compared to the original, but it's still "only" workbench, and maybe Magellan 2 may be useful here in the same way it was useful on MorphOS versions 1.0->1.4, but not so much in MorphOS 2.7...
From a MorphOS user's perspective, it would certainly make much more sense to add whatever feature to Ambient that you miss from the Magellan 2 WB replacement. And my question remains - what features are those exactly?
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You really can't group OS4's workbench together with MorphOS's Ambient in this context; they play in different leagues altogether, they are miles apart. OS4's workbench might have improvements compared to the original, but it's still "only" workbench, and maybe Magellan 2 may be useful here in the same way it was useful on MorphOS versions 1.0->1.4, but not so much in MorphOS 2.7...
From a MorphOS user's perspective, it would certainly make much more sense to add whatever feature to Ambient that you miss from the Magellan 2 WB replacement. And my question remains - what features are those exactly?
You are aware of that DopusMAgellan is a Wb replacement right? , much like Ambient is, its a feature packed tool/lister for anything and everything.
I don't know if you are still stuck in 2002-4 but MorphOS has been about having AmigaOS backwards compability while OS4 went forward but i highly doubt that Morphos inner system and os calls stuff havent changed since 1.4, dopus might work allright but hardly anywhere 100%.
DopusMagellan use hardware banging stuff and is doing illegal OS calls etc.
But ofcourse, one can always say like Olaf did, it works in emulation mode, hardly the same if you ask me.
As for what features is missing in what OS etc, i can't really tell anymore as i havent used Magellan since 2002-2003 (which btw was ON MorphOS and with the hack fix).
other than that, i agree very much so on your last point, instead of porting /re doing all of DopusMAG it would be easier to just add these features to the filelisters etc we have today (may it be Workbench or Ambient etc).
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other than that, i agree very much so on your last point, instead of porting /re doing all of DopusMAG it would be easier to just add these features to the filelisters etc we have today (may it be Workbench or Ambient etc).
How many people were working on DOpus Magellan? How may people are working on Ambient? How long did it take to develop DOpus Magellan? How many years has Ambient been around?
@takemehomegrandma
It's not just about file liesters, it's the entire package, listers, panels, buttons, menus, hotkeys, double click, triple click, mouse buttons, drag and drop, qualifiers, app icons, scripting... Ambient and OS4 Workbench are much similar to each other than any of them are similar to DOpus Magellan.
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How many people were working on DOpus Magellan? How may people are working on Ambient? How long did it take to develop DOpus Magellan? How many years has Ambient been around?
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No idea really, but i guess i could just look in the manual (Dopus Mag).
As for how long it was developed, first one came in like 1995 , not sure though, second one came a couple years later, GP Soft stopped developing in 1997 or there abouts and came out as a freebie on a Amiga magazine later on (CU Amiga or AmigaFormat.. not sure which one it was really).
Ambient has atleast been in development for 8-10 years now or so now right? (not sure anymore, time go to fast and i am getting older every day)
Fail to see your point except for that GPSoft developers probably worked full time and had money, that matters indeed but i still fail to see your point.
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You are aware of that DopusMAgellan is a Wb replacement right? , much like Ambient is, its a feature packed tool/lister for anything and everything.
Magellan _can_ be used as a WB replacement, but you don't have to. You can use it as a separate program as well too. You can even config it to work like traditional two view file manager. But of course to get the best of it, you should run it as replacement.
Magellan2 runs still well on MorphOS2.x. Actually better than in 1.4 as the font requester doesn't crash anymore :)
Quote from MZ:
I'm still running it with the latest MorphOS too and would probably donate something for open sourcing as it would give possibility to fix small little issues and add compatibility etc.
Although Ambient has advanced a lot and it's hands down the best default desktop for any Amiga platform ever, but it still isn't up to Magellan2 in efficiency and all the features. Ambient is on good path to clone Magellan2 features, but there's still something missing, partly done, simplified (not bad thing always) or just have some technical limitations to be as good as on Magellan2.
Some features why I'm using Magellan2 still with Ambient: Magellan2's Start Menus are much better than Ambient Panels currently, integrated ftp, very versatile hotkey settings, scripts, nice arexx features, better inline editing in listers (in Magellan2 you can edit all fields like dates and protection bits), copying filenames to clipboard works better, etc.
In any case Ambient also has some new more modern features, support for modern techniques and eye candy etc, which obsoletes the option to run Magellan2 as complete desktop replacement.
But luckily both Ambient and Magellan2 can coexist just fine on the same screen with couple of 3rd party launchers. You can use whichever you want for the current task. And Magellan2's Start Menus, hotkeys etc work "transparently" on Ambient screen so that it isn't that noticeable what's the underlying program which does the job.
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You are aware of that DopusMAgellan is a Wb replacement right? , much like Ambient is, its a feature packed tool/lister for anything and everything.
What it has to do with anything? Ambient developers have been using Magellan because they can use Magellan as their desktop while testing new Ambient builds. I don't know if anything has changed but I think Magellan still works in MorphOS 2.7.
DopusMagellan use hardware banging stuff and is doing illegal OS calls etc.
Uh oh, what illegal OS calls?
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No idea really, but i guess i could just look in the manual (Dopus Mag).
As for how long it was developed, first one came in like 1995 , not sure though, second one came a couple years later, GP Soft stopped developing in 1997 or there abouts and came out as a freebie on a Amiga magazine later on (CU Amiga or AmigaFormat.. not sure which one it was really).
Latest versions came in 1998. Magellan2 was never given as free until in AmiKit month ago or so. Cover disk versions were pre Magellan releases, which were very immature compared to the very latest versions. In my opinion Magellan1 (5.6) wasn't mature enough to be used as complete WB replacement, but Magellan2 hitted the jackpot.
IIRC Magellan was always said to be coded cleanly by using system functions for everything...
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It runs with Aros 68k and Kickstart Replacement, so I do not think that it is system "unfriendly" programmed.
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It would be worth to gather some info from Andreas Loong from Guru Meditation and, possibly, continue where he stopped. I remember, back in the days when he owned the Magellan II license, he told me his team managed to port the sources to C completely (or they were very near to completion at least).
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i have sent a email to Andreas Loong regarding his experience. Hope the email is still valid.
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I'd love to have this for MorphOS!
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@All
I got the answer of the person who licensed Magellan years ago. That the port failed was because the main programmer dropped out. They came quite far but had some problems later on because Magellan had hooks deep in the system (port to OS4). The code itself is clean and well-structured.
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Good news. Greg (owner of DOpus) accepts A$5000 as minimum and opensource it. 99% of Code is C. Calling it "Directory Opus Magellan" on 68k but not on other platforms without prior permission.
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for those who are interested I have created a text on amigaworld for the bounty:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34986&forum=2&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0
feedback welcome
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I got a copy a while ago, since I own the Windoze version and would be lost without it. I'd happily drop some cash down on this becoming open sourced. Don't really have a need for it, though. I rarely even get into WinUAE anymore....
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I have the answer of GPSoft. They only want to release the source AFTER payment. I do not know if there is then still interest and I should create the bounty. What do you think? I do not think GPSoft wants to cheat us but nevertheless I do not want to take the risk for the whole sum (but of course for my donation). What do you think?
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Yes, create the bounty !
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You can do it!
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final text for bounty:
Description
Open the source of Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) 68k
Source-code purchase of GPSoftware's Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) for
free use under APL. The Name "Directory Opus Magellan", a trademark of
GPSoftware, can be used on Amiga (Amiga here is 68k, Aros, MorphOS, AmigaOS)
without further permission. Use of the source or trademarks any other OS is
strictly prohibited except where a separate licence has been negotiated.
Bounty will be paid, then the source will be released and integrated "as is" into the AROS SVN.
Bounty goal: 5200$ (plus Paypal)
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Hi Olaf,
PayPal fees can be quite hefty when you're talking that amount of money.
How about Kickstarter? Would that work?
Cheers,
ck
final text for bounty:
Description
Open the source of Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) 68k
Source-code purchase of GPSoftware's Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) for
free use under APL. The Name "Directory Opus Magellan", a trademark of
GPSoftware, can be used on Amiga (Amiga here is 68k, Aros, MorphOS, AmigaOS)
without further permission. Use of the source or trademarks any other OS is
strictly prohibited except where a separate licence has been negotiated.
Bounty will be paid, then the source will be released and integrated "as is" into the AROS SVN.
Bounty goal: 5200$ (plus Paypal)
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This bounty is getting a good response on the Natami forums. For all Amigoid platforms it's not a bad price either IMHO.
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Would this not qualify as a "personal" transaction, thus not subject to PayPal fees?
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Source-code purchase of GPSoftware's Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) for free use under APL. The Name "Directory Opus Magellan", a trademark of GPSoftware, can be used on Amiga (Amiga here is 68k, Aros, MorphOS, AmigaOS) without further permission. Use of the source or trademarks any other OS is strictly prohibited except where a separate licence has been negotiated.
The AROS Public License is an open license that includes no limitations with regard to target platforms. Either a piece of software is released under the APL license or it is not. If somebody adds provisions to the APL at will, the result will be a new license that may be partially compliant, but will certainly not be the same license.
In order words, the bounty description is contradictory.
Bounty will be paid, then the source will be released and integrated "as is" into the AROS SVN.
Unless the software is released under the original AROS Public License, I would guess that it is unlikely that the source code will be accepted into the AROS SVN.
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Would this not qualify as a "personal" transaction, thus not subject to PayPal fees?
Absolutely not. There will always be fees.
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I have this ok by email and forworded the correspondence to power2people. I have not a signed written contract because I do trust GPSoft and who will do the lawsuit in australia even if there is one.
"
Ok.
__
Regards, Dr Greg Perry
GPSoftware, PO Box 570, Ashgrove, Qld Australia 4060 Ph/fax +617 33661402
Email: greg@gpsoft.com.au web: http://www.gpsoft.com.au
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Olaf Schönweiß [mailto:olaf.schoenweiss@innovatronic.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 January 2012 7:06 PM
> To: Dr Greg Perry
> Subject: Re: Natami and GPFax (Last)
>
> I have merged both emails
>
> Last version that I will send tomorrow to power2people:
>
> Open the source of Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82) 68k
>
> Source-code purchase of GPSoftware's Directory Opus Magellan II (5.82)
> for free use under APL. The Name "Directory Opus Magellan", a trademark
> of GPSoftware, can be used on Amiga (real hardware or emulated, Amiga
> here is 68k, Aros (all flavors including hosted), MorphOS, AmigaOS)
> without further permission. Use of the source is limited by the APL
> Licences agreement and use of trademarks on other OS's is strictly
> prohibited except where a separate licence has been negotiated.
> Bounty will be paid, then the source will be released and available on
> public SVN page, so developers from all the camps can works on it
>
>
> Bounty goal: 5200$ (plus Paypal)
>
> please short "ok". the only change was that I put the text from this
> email in the text.
>
"
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It is online now:
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/64
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My donation added to the bounty...
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+20
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Bump
Please, donate !!
=> http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/64
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The AROS Public License is an open license that includes no limitations with regard to target platforms. Either a piece of software is released under the APL license or it is not. If somebody adds provisions to the APL at will, the result will be a new license that may be partially compliant, but will certainly not be the same license.
In order words, the bounty description is contradictory.
No it's not, you're mixing up copyright and trademarks. GPSoft is promising two licenses: One for the code, which will be released under the APL, and one for using the trademark, which is only valid for 68k builds. You can still do with the code whatever you want (as long as you respect the APL), but if you're compiling it for anything but 68k you can't call it Opus Magellan.
Think of the official Firefox vs. OS4 Timberwolf vs. Debian Iceweasel.
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Will do monthly donations (when possible) on this bounty I think.
Last month $20, yesterday $60...
Please help us free the sources of this great program!
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You really can't group OS4's workbench together with MorphOS's Ambient in this context; they play in different leagues altogether, they are miles apart. OS4's workbench might have improvements compared to the original, but it's still "only" workbench, and maybe Magellan 2 may be useful here in the same way it was useful on MorphOS versions 1.0->1.4, but not so much in MorphOS 2.7...
From a MorphOS user's perspective, it would certainly make much more sense to add whatever feature to Ambient that you miss from the Magellan 2 WB replacement. And my question remains - what features are those exactly?
Dual Lister Windows for one.
Built in FTP directory.
I dunno... EVERY FEATURE! :)
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No it's not, you're mixing up copyright and trademarks. GPSoft is promising two licenses: One for the code, which will be released under the APL, and one for using the trademark, which is only valid for 68k builds. You can still do with the code whatever you want (as long as you respect the APL), but if you're compiling it for anything but 68k you can't call it Opus Magellan.
Actually, you might want to read the entire discussion. The proposed bounty terms that I objected to - as found in this discussion thread - said:
Use of the source or trademarks (on) any other OS is strictly prohibited
Based on my remarks, the bounty terms were adjusted to what is on the Power2People website and are now in full compliance with the AROS Public License...
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Dual Lister Windows for one.
You can have as many listers as you want, or at least probably a lot more than you will ever need.
Built in FTP directory.
Will be there in MorphOS 3 (encrypted even)...