Amiga.org

The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: XDelusion on December 18, 2014, 05:23:34 PM

Title: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 18, 2014, 05:23:34 PM
I got a friend who would like to spend no more than $400 on a laptop, but does not want a cheap one that will due in less than 3 years, and would also like to be able to have a 128Gb SSD drive installed.

Windows 7 would be preferred over 8, and at least 2Gb of RAM.

Laptop must be new. Any suggestions on models that could fit this bill?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: Duce on December 18, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Lots of decent ones for under $400, but I wouldn't expect a 128 GB (or even an SSD at all) for that price.  Finding one with Windows 7 on it might be another issue in itself.

I've spent some time with the ASUS D550CA-RS31 ($379 MSRP) recently and came away fairly impressed, and I'm a real hard arsed critic of lower end laptops.  It doesn't come with an SSD or W7, however.

But Windows 8.1 is just fine.  Windows 8.0 was a bit of a stinker, but 8.1 can be run in desktop mode just great.

Only thing I dislike terribly about any low end laptop is the usual Intel integrated graphics, but not gonna get away from that one at that price point by any means.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 18, 2014, 06:35:22 PM
What is it with people on this forum and being cheap-asses? LOL. ;)

I build computers all day long. Get a used laptop for a couple hundred bucks off your local craigslist. Something like a Dell Latitude D630, I see those all day long and Latitude's are fantastically reliable business-class machines. Add an SSD from newegg.com for a hundred bucks. Buy a license for Win 7 for $69. Pocket the rest of the money. Done.  :hammer:
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 18, 2014, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: Duce;780106
Lots of decent ones for under $400, but I wouldn't expect a 128 GB (or even an SSD at all) for that price.  Finding one with Windows 7 on it might be another issue in itself.

I've spent some time with the ASUS D550CA-RS31 ($379 MSRP) recently and came away fairly impressed, and I'm a real hard arsed critic of lower end laptops.  It doesn't come with an SSD or W7, however.

But Windows 8.1 is just fine.  Windows 8.0 was a bit of a stinker, but 8.1 can be run in desktop mode just great.

Only thing I dislike terribly about any low end laptop is the usual Intel integrated graphics, but not gonna get away from that one at that price point by any means.



Thanks, according to the reviews, the  ASUS D550CA-RS31 looks nice. SSD can always be a future upgrade. :)
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: giZmo350 on December 18, 2014, 07:03:00 PM
I build machines day in and day out too.... just beware of what you're buying. I personally have not sold this model so can't confirm reviews. However, you might want to read here...

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-15-6-Inch-Laptop-500GB-Drive/dp/B00HNWLYSK

If it's true that this machine can not boot from optical, you're donzo! You MUST be able to recover the system from some other source than the internal HDD at some point. And doesn't appear to have 8.1 installed. And yes, it takes 8 to 10 hours to update an 8.0 machine. Asus has really gone downhill with their budget machines in the last couple of years IMHO.

Suggest a Joy Systems Dell refurb from Tiger Direct Joy Systems machines also come with a 1 year warranty. I just bought a bunch of i5, 15.6", 2BG mem, 320GB HDD, Wireless N, Giga Ethernet, Bluetooth, DVD-RW, Win 7 Pro 64bit laptops from Tiger for $270 each (but they all had to have BIOS and OS updated - takes a while and ya kinda need to know what your doing).
 
 Ya, they still have 'em....
 
 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9544685&srkey=JOS-102804737
 
PS - Just another peeps opinion - but I've been in this biz for a long time! :)
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: spaceman88 on December 18, 2014, 09:58:16 PM
Try to find a HP 6550b. They are a couple of years old, come with Win 7 pro, i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM, 250 GB HD and Wide screen display. Good solid business class unit, screen won't break if your cat jumps on it, like most of the new consumer units. I've sold a dozen or so with no problems.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 12:17:40 AM
Quote from: gizmo350;780118
I build machines day in and day out too.... just beware of what you're buying. I personally have not sold this model so can't confirm reviews. However, you might want to read here...

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-15-6-Inch-Laptop-500GB-Drive/dp/B00HNWLYSK

If it's true that this machine can not boot from optical, you're donzo! You MUST be able to recover the system from some other source than the internal HDD at some point. And doesn't appear to have 8.1 installed. And yes, it takes 8 to 10 hours to update an 8.0 machine. Asus has really gone downhill with their budget machines in the last couple of years IMHO.

Suggest a Joy Systems Dell refurb from Tiger Direct Joy Systems machines also come with a 1 year warranty. I just bought a bunch of i5, 15.6", 2BG mem, 320GB HDD, Wireless N, Giga Ethernet, Bluetooth, DVD-RW, Win 7 Pro 64bit laptops from Tiger for $270 each (but they all had to have BIOS and OS updated - takes a while and ya kinda need to know what your doing).
 
 Ya, they still have 'em....
 
 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9544685&srkey=JOS-102804737
 
PS - Just another peeps opinion - but I've been in this biz for a long time! :)


Word, sound advice there, I like the Tiger link!

A little higher than Ebay pricing on the same unit, but with the comfort of security!
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: giZmo350 on December 19, 2014, 12:48:35 AM
If you order one of these, you're gonna need some help with the drivers. Dell really screwed up the driver list for the E5510. There are three drivers in the 64bit list that are actually 32bit and the 32bit drivers are actually the 64bit drivers. I know.... sheesh! That screwed me up for two days! Installing the wrong drivers (the 32bit drivers will go on the 64bit install without complaining) will trash the install during the Win Updates! But I can always just zip up the 64bit drivers for you to download from me and install including the two BIOS updates that must be installed first! It ships with BIOS A3. But, you must install A10 before you can get to the latest A16 BIOS. I have them. I can then tell you the order the drivers must be installed. THEN, you can start the 8 hours of Windows updates. Then, one really nice thing, I can tell you where to get Dell's Backup and Recovery program that will allow you to create a full set of complete RECOVERY disks that takes a bootable snapshot of your entire drive at that moment! You'll never have to pay someone to reinstall Windows for you again! It's a sweet program! I can help you out no problem. Or, you can just start Win Updates as it is shipped and see if it works and installs the proper drivers from Dell...  but I ran into a problem doing that as a message would pop up during the Win Updates that the driver download needed an acknowledgment from Dell. Well, how the hell is a guy supposed to do that while in Win Updates! :roflmao: But the thing is, where are you going to get a Dell i5 widescreen laptop for $270.00 with a 1 year warranty. And Joy Systems are great! Oh, and the battery is included in the warranty - no NEW laptop includes the battery under warranty. I finally figured out what was going on with the drivers after trying a 32bit install. While installing the 32bit drivers - Windows complained that they were 64bit! BINGO! Problem solved. Maybe that's why they're selling them so cheap - no one knows that Dell's driver list is screwed up! LOL

Actually, are you in the states? If so, I'll just send you a set of recovery disks for the Latitude E5510 - Win 7 Pro 64bit! Pop 'em in and go! Takes about an hour or so and the OS will be activated and completely updated to yesterday! You'll have to create a new account if you want a different user name though. Easy Peasy. And a couple of other things after a system has been imaged - I'll tell you what to do. Oh, and BTW, if you use the recovery disks from me, Dell burning software (Roxio Creator), Dell DVD playing software (Power DVD), Adobe Reader & Flash, MS Security Essentials (excellent free Anit-virus) will be installed and everything will be configured for proper use.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 01:25:44 AM
Quote from: gizmo350;780146
If you order one of these, you're gonna need some help with the drivers. Dell really screwed up the driver list for the E5510. There are three drivers in the 64bit list that are actually 32bit and the 32bit drivers are actually the 64bit drivers. I know.... sheesh! That screwed me up for two days! Installing the wrong drivers (the 32bit drivers will go on the 64bit install without complaining) will trash the install during the Win Updates! But I can always just zip up the 64bit drivers for you to download from me and install including the two BIOS updates that must be installed first! It ships with BIOS A3. But, you must install A10 before you can get to the latest A16 BIOS. I have them. I can then tell you the order the drivers must be installed. THEN, you can start the 8 hours of Windows updates. Then, one really nice thing, I can tell you where to get Dell's Backup and Recovery program that will allow you to create a full set of complete RECOVERY disks that takes a bootable snapshot of your entire drive at that moment! You'll never have to pay someone to reinstall Windows for you again! It's a sweet program! I can help you out no problem. Or, you can just start Win Updates as it is shipped and see if it works and installs the proper drivers from Dell...  but I ran into a problem doing that as a message would pop up during the Win Updates that the driver download needed an acknowledgment from Dell. Well, how the hell is a guy supposed to do that while in Win Updates! :roflmao: But the thing is, where are you going to get a Dell i5 widescreen laptop for $270.00 with a 1 year warranty. And Joy Systems are great! Oh, and the battery is included in the warranty - no NEW laptop includes the battery under warranty. I finally figured out what was going on with the drivers after trying a 32bit install. While installing the 32bit drivers - Windows complained that they were 64bit! BINGO! Problem solved. Maybe that's why they're selling them so cheap - no one knows that Dell's driver list is screwed up! LOL

Actually, are you in the states? If so, I'll just send you a set of recovery disks for the Latitude E5510 - Win 7 Pro 64bit! Pop 'em in and go! Takes about an hour or so and the OS will be activated and completely updated to yesterday! You'll have to create a new account if you want a different user name though. Easy Peasy. And a couple of other things after a system has been imaged - I'll tell you what to do. Oh, and BTW, if you use the recovery disks from me, Dell burning software (Roxio Creator), Dell DVD playing software (Power DVD), Adobe Reader & Flash, MS Security Essentials (excellent free Anit-virus) will be installed and everything will be configured for proper use.


Wow, yes, thank you for the offer. I do live in the States and should she purchase this I'll certainly be willing to take you up on that offer... sounds a bit like my trusty Precisions M4400. The GFX drivers were tricky....

It's it odd how these companies can make great machines but can't do their drive pages correct, like EVER?! :)
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: giZmo350 on December 19, 2014, 01:39:48 AM
Yea, Dell used to have the greatest Driver division on the planet! It was a major undertaking by one Dell employee about 10 years or so ago. And he did a great job. But sadly, he must have left and the current employees are kinda screwing it up. It's still great, and this is the worst screw up I've seen but these Dells are the best. Everything is accessible under the bottom cover by removing only one screw. Plus, 64bit allows you to install up to 8GB of memory later (32bit can only go to 4GB). An i5 w/Turbo Boost & 8GB of memory screams!

So, let me know if you go that route & glad to help.

BTW, HP doesn't use lead in their solder (for a long time now) and the motherboards fail constantly due to the solder joints cracking (ever notice that you can fry an egg on an HP laptop?)! The HP motherboard failure rate is an epidemic with their consumer products!
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on December 19, 2014, 02:30:53 AM
It should be able to boot from optical drive, that would be set in the BIOS.
The recovery disk will be on the hard drive.

The DELL would be very nice, but I say get the ASUS.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: giZmo350 on December 19, 2014, 02:37:52 AM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;780153
It should be able to boot from optical drive, that would be set in the BIOS.
The recovery disk will be on the hard drive.

The DELL would be very nice, but I say get the ASUS.

Well, according to the Amazon link I posted above, a lot of peeps discovered that this unit's BIOS won't allow booting from optical. That's messed up! Even if there's a recovery disk creation program, you wouldn't be able to recover the system from the optical disks! And if the Hard Drive ever goes bad, the recovery is gone forever. Only recourse would be to install from scratch and load drivers... oh wait, can't do that either 'cause you can't boot from USB or optical drive! And don't forget that Win 8 does not come with a license key. Ever find a COA sticker on a Win 8 machine? Yea, NOT! Check out those Amazon reviews...

For example......

"The user should be aware that the BIOS has been crippled in this  Notebook to prevent the user from booting from USB or DVD.  Also, the  machine was supplied without a Micro$oft COA and Windows 8 product key  except the one embedded in the machine from the pre-loaded Windows 8.   Also noted, the cursor tends to drift when accessing the left touchpad  button requiring one hand to hold the cursor in place while the other  hand clicks the touchpad button.

Stardock.Com's Start8 is a  valuable tool to return the desktop to the user for some productivity.   Start8 makes Windows usable and useful.

I would have given this  machine perhaps four stars if ASUS hadn't crippled the BIOS function(s).   Also, current methods of pre-loading Windows 8 is done at the expense  and detriment of the user/purchaser.  Out of warranty hardware failures  will significantly hurt the buyer and could result in the loss of access  to Windows 8 altogether"
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on December 19, 2014, 05:08:02 AM
@above
Check the comments to his review. He fixed it by disabling fast-boot.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 05:11:47 AM
Quote from: gizmo350;780149

BTW, HP doesn't use lead in their solder (for a long time now) and the motherboards fail constantly due to the solder joints cracking (ever notice that you can fry an egg on an HP laptop?)! The HP motherboard failure rate is an epidemic with their consumer products!


I've heard about such things, very curious! Do you know where any official articles are on this that I could share with people so they would believe me if I told them?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: danwood on December 19, 2014, 08:45:46 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;780109
. Buy a license for Win 7 for $69.


I wouldn't bother with that, just use 8.1 that comes with all laptops. You can install the free Classic Shell or Start8 and it is pretty much identical to Win 7 (you never see the Metro/New UI stuff).
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: danwood on December 19, 2014, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: gizmo350;780149
BTW, HP doesn't use lead in their solder (for a long time now) and the motherboards fail constantly due to the solder joints cracking (ever notice that you can fry an egg on an HP laptop?)! The HP motherboard failure rate is an epidemic with their consumer products!

It's not just HP, nobody uses Lead Solder since it was effectively banned in the EU almost 10 years ago:

"On July 1, 2006 the European Union Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive (WEEE) and Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS) came into effect prohibiting the inclusion of significant quantities of lead in most consumer electronics produced in the EU."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead_solder
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 09:19:17 AM
Quote from: danwood;780165
I wouldn't bother with that, just use 8.1 that comes with all laptops. You can install the free Classic Shell or Start8 and it is pretty much identical to Win 7 (you never see the Metro/New UI stuff).


I've used both, Classic sucks, and Start8 was better, but neither totally hid the fact that I was still running Windows 8. It's an OK work around if you've no other option, but as for me, I'd rather avoid 8 and hardware built for 8 all together. They seem less friendly to work with... kind of like what happened to cars...
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 09:20:02 AM
Quote from: danwood;780166
It's not just HP, nobody uses Lead Solder since it was effectively banned in the EU almost 10 years ago:

"On July 1, 2006 the European Union Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive (WEEE) and Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive (RoHS) came into effect prohibiting the inclusion of significant quantities of lead in most consumer electronics produced in the EU."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead_solder


The ban on Lead isn't so harsh here in the States.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: danwood on December 19, 2014, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;780169
The ban on Lead isn't so harsh here in the States.


I'd imagine most machines are designed for the international market though, is lead solder still common on computers in the US?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: spaceman88 on December 19, 2014, 01:01:18 PM
Most of Hp's problems were caused by certain Nvidia GPU's developing poor connections, but the the same thing happened to Dell, Sony, Acer and older MacBook Pro's and others. Google "Nvidia lawsuit" for more info. The model I recommended ( HP Probook 6550b) is not on the "list" and at this time I don't have any to sell so I wasn't looking to make a sale. BTW, the affected units can often be repaired by reflowing or reballing the GPU, however results can be mixed, a simple reflow often fails in a year or so. Reballing usually lasts longer.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: spaceman88;780180
Most of Hp's problems were caused by certain Nvidia GPU's developing poor connections, but the the same thing happened to Dell, Sony, Acer and older MacBook Pro's and others. Google "Nvidia lawsuit" for more info. The model I recommended ( HP Probook 6550b) is not on the "list" and at this I don't have any to sell so I wasn't looking to make a sale. BTW, the affected units can often be repaired by reflowing or reballing the GPU, however results can be mixed, a simple reflow often fails in a year or so. Reballing usually lasts longer.


Interesting, my Dell has an Nvidia... where can I find this "list:?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 02:43:18 PM
Quote from: danwood;780175
I'd imagine most machines are designed for the international market though, is lead solder still common on computers in the US?


Good thought, good question, but I've no answer on either. Unless their are different factories that cater to different countries, but I don't believe that is the case.

Maybe we are all lead free now?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: spaceman88 on December 19, 2014, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: XDelusion;780181
Interesting, my Dell has an Nvidia... where can I find this "list:?


Here's one list ... http://www.canadiannvidiasettlement.com/  .... Click on the link halfway down the page.  There are computers that are affected but not on the list as well, like some Acer's.
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 19, 2014, 03:28:30 PM
Quote from: gizmo350;780149
The HP motherboard failure rate is an epidemic with their consumer products!

+1 to everything you've been saying.  Having replaced probably hundreds of laptop motherboards over the years, I've never seen more sudden, spontenous failures than with HP stuff.  They should've stuck to making their good workgroup-class printers (and not the consumer-grade, Walmart/Best Buy type junk, either).
 
If cost were no issue, the only model of laptop I recommend is business-class Dell Latitude hardware.  Business class is more robust/durable/expandable/easier to work on, and comes with (at minimum) a three year hardware warranty, even on "scratch & dent" or "certified refurbished" hardware.  Not to mention the longer product lifecycles of business-class stuff, means greater availability of spare parts.  If anything breaks in any of our Dell laptops (or more often, gets broken by an employee) I just hit up Dell on the Instant Messenger, and they'll either send out a tech next-day, or send me the parts next-day.  Of course I used to work for Dell, so I kinda know how to talk to them.  ;)
 
Additionally business-class stuff doesn't come pre-loaded with all the junk you'll find on consumer-grade hardware.  Not all the demos/trials/junk software that you'll never use, because basically businesses won't put up with the same sh*t that consumers will.
 
Not that any of that matters to me really, I just re-image any new hardware as soon as it gets off the truck at my door, but eh.  Maybe that's just me.  ;-)  I've never had a problem finding the correct drivers for Dell stuff on their website.  IMHO their drivers are easier to locate than just about any other brand, and that includes HP, Asus, Toshiba, Sony, etc.  I've worked on just about all of 'em.  Sony was the worst, in my experience.  ;)

 Also +1 for Start8.  I use that (along with a few other tweaks) to make Windows 8/8.1 systems operate like Win 7, all day long.  ;)
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on December 19, 2014, 03:37:41 PM
On the second subject that came up. Is lead free solder hard to soften after it has been there for about ten years?
On something like an A1200 would you use a heat gun, rather than trying to desolder the PLCC chip?
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: XDelusion on December 19, 2014, 04:26:04 PM
Quote from: spaceman88;780186
Here's one list ... http://www.canadiannvidiasettlement.com/  .... Click on the link halfway down the page.  There are computers that are affected but not on the list as well, like some Acer's.


Aghh good, I'm off the hook!
Title: Re: Got a friend looking for $400 or less laptop...
Post by: zipper on December 19, 2014, 07:46:54 PM
It was a combination of ROHS and mobile cards of Nvidia Go 7.xxxM and 8.xxxM series - a friend of mine did bake his 7950 5 or 6 times...