Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: on March 23, 2003, 04:42:40 PM
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Man, I've been away forever, enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro.
I figured something would have happened by now.
Crap!
All the Amiga community has to offer is Pegasus?
MorphOS?
ewwwwww.....
Must be worst than I thought.
Fill me in on what I've missed.
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Fill me in on what I've missed.
Nothing much apart from delays and the usual "AmigaONE boards are shiping" and the army of apologists defending Amiga companies at all costs.
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Fill me in on what I've missed.
Amiga OS4 is almost finished and AmigaOne boards are already shipping to end users. Pretty much the same story as the last year....
Just "two more weeks".
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Fill me in on what I've missed.
In a vulgar display of militant power, the G Dubya Regime invaded the borders of a non-neighboring country in an attempt to flex is bulging, super-power biceps.
Oh wait....I thought we were talking about something important. (rolling eyes) :-D
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Fill me in on what I've missed.
Nothing much. The spring collection of modern
generalization-terms has arrived. All flamers that want to
be "in" just must use these hot terms as often as possible
and in as unwarranted situations as they can find.
Before it was very "chic" to use the term "MOS-follower"
and "BAF" as soon as someone had a different view from
you. (Actually this stone-age way of flaming is still used
by some people without any fashion sense - everyone
knows it's sooo out). The latest, hottest, very
fashionable trend is use the term "apologist" for everyone
not bashing AInc at every turn. And it's cheap! Everyone
can do it without even thinking! Don't you just love prêt
à porter for the masses?
It's all very modern and all, but I for one cannot wait for
the anti-generalization movement to get a firm grip on the
flame-fashion industry. I still hope to see a collection of
conservatory "I disagree with you because..." and "I see
why you might think so, but..." on the catwalks sometime
in my lifetime.
Here's looking forward to the summer collection.
.
SlimJim
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The latest, hottest, very fashionable trend is use the term "apologist" for everyone not bashing AInc at every turn.
Nonsense, the apologists are the people who will defend,lie and make excuses for what Amiga companies do wrong, there is a big difference between an Amiga user and a Amiga apologist, they have a new site so hopefully they will stick with it.
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Mountain_Myst wrote:
Man, I've been away forever, enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro.
I figured something would have happened by now.
Crap!
All the Amiga community has to offer is Pegasus?
MorphOS?
ewwwwww.....
Must be worst than I thought.
Fill me in on what I've missed.
Come back in six months and see what has happened. MAYBE (emphasized, bolded, underlined, italic MAYBE) then we'll have OS4.
Just maybe.
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@Paul_Gadd
You make me laugh...go on say something else! :-D
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@Paul_Gadd
I'm sorry to say, but that's blatant generalization at its
finest. My fashion analogy stands. As an example, you are
effectively judging an entire website just
because there are a couple of die-hards posting there (and
yes, I have actually read the threads there, and there is
noone making up stuff to defend anybody. People are just
trying to see some positive aspects in the sad state of
affairs. That's not apologizing, that's having a different
viewpoint. That's people having hope for the way they like
their hobby to develop.)
You see, there is no right or wrong in this. No good or
evil. Some people see Genesi as the worlds greatest
scumbags. Some look on AInc as the founders of all evil.
Most of us are just happy to see anything happening with
a platform "dead" for more than ten years. Who is right?
I sure know that I think it's more than childish
to insult people -be they MOS/AOS/AInc/Genesi/
Elbox/Amithlon/whatever - "supporters", by calling them
deragatory names and by putting everyone under the
same generalized label. Everyone has a different view on
things. Respect that.
.
SlimJim
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Not much really just the amigaone being even more dated, OS4 still not here, no real new amiga to report of.
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hey slimjim,
While you are studying terms, will you look up the term hypocrite and see if that still has any meaning.
Aren't you painting 'flamers' with same broad generalizations that you accuse them of committing?
"the latest trend is to use the term 'apologist' for everyone not bashing Ainc."
since no one is actually doing that, I don't know what you are referring too, or who you are trying to criticize in your post, but it seems what they call...and I don't know if this term is fashionable, but its an oldy and a goody ...a 'self-refuting' argument.
If being over general is bad, then you, sir, are baaad....baaadd baaaad
:-)
I don't think you are bad...but you must be an amiga apologist...since I didn't detect any amiga bashing in your post :-)
OH CRAP...I didn't really address Amiga in this post either...so I'm an amiga apologist now....oh well :-)
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@ Marktime
:-D An actual argued response!
By all means, if you consider "flamers" as a homogeneous
group, you could indeed claim that I am generalizing.
But it seems you take my use of "flamer" as being another
name for the entire community. I don't.
It is quite clear (to me, it must be noted) that people, that
previously were using "BAF", are now taking the term
"apologist" to heart when wanting ammo to flame. The
infamous "You're just a MOS-fanatic" is still seeing heavy
use though, so I guess this olden goldy is still a winner... ;-)
... -edit (since you did)-
Well, if you want to consider yourself an apologist, that's
OK with me...;-) Others calling you that, only based on
you not agreeing with them on AInc:s policies, is not OK in
my book though.
.
SlimJim
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Impulsive temper, ranging from frustration, anger to fanatical belief. That what's going on. :-):-):-)
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Nah.... And it dont look like it will ever come either...
Not much updates from amigaINC either.. they wasnt even the show..
I have totally lost faith now.. and even if it comes out sometime in end of 2003, the hardware would so outdated that.................
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Man, I've been away forever, enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro.
I figured something would have happened by now.
A click on your profile shows your last post was on March 9. That isn't exactly "away forever," especially in AmigaLand. But I guess time flies when your having fun. ;-)
-- gary_c
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@Paul_Gadd
they have a new site so hopefully they will stick with it.
Whay exactly do you mean by that?
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(removed by -D- due to asinine content:))
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Rudei wrote:
@Paul_Gadd
they have a new site so hopefully they will stick with it.
Whay exactly do you mean by that?
My guess is that he mean AmigaWorld.
Have a look at these threads:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577)
and:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1603 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1603)
(especially from page 3)
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@MountainMyst
Well.. Quite frankly, nothing new has happened. People are still waiting for their promiced products, some lose their faith and leave. Some make critical comments and some still defend their great heroes.
Personally I'm getting bored to all this ****
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Whay exactly do you mean by that?
Amigaworld.net (http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/pub/aminet/info/www/dirs/aminet/pix/imagi/worship.jpg) - the new Amiga inc one sided PR website
(http://amigaworld.net/images/ask-fleecy.jpg)
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Paul_Gadd,
your link dont work.
;-)
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Mountain_Myst wrote:
Man, I've been away forever, enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro.
I figured something would have happened by now.
Crap!
All the Amiga community has to offer is Pegasus?
MorphOS?
ewwwwww.....
Must be worst than I thought.
Fill me in on what I've missed.
Have you not tried AROS? :-o
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:-( :-( :-( :-(
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All I know for sure is, they're not releasing it on April 1st.
I don't have any inside info, it's just a common sense observation, you know, an educated guess. They've had enough slip ups to last 50 years, and they don't want to look bad.
AmigaOne! Looking Good!
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@slimjim
sorry for the delay, actually I might have edited my but that was before I knew it had a response, otherwise I wouldn't have done it...any way small matter.
Yes, someone put it a lot more eloquently than me, but this community is one that likes its phrases and slogans. I find it interesting.
Certainly, I have always thought that an argument is either one or lost
at the time the terms of the discussion are defined.
I think we see that around these parts, people starting very early trying
to define the terms of discussion.
And sometimes, if people don't get the terms they want, they even start new websites.
But...I can't complain, as I've admitted before, I started an 'amiga name' thread
of my own years ago on csam and I've never known this community to be w/out such
an argument since.
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@P Gadd
"Ask Fleecy"
Oh man, am I just tired or is it normal to
fall of the chair crying and laughing at the same
time..
Not judging anything though, just observing
my body expressing itself. :-D
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Do you guys think they can deliver OS when they are unable to send out few hundreds of promised t-shirts to Club Amiga members after almost a year of delays?
Be, Inc. was much better with delivering EVERYTHING and still went down like a rock.
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Do you guys think they can deliver OS when they are unable to send out few hundreds of promised t-shirts to Club Amiga members after almost a year of delays?
Keep in mind that Hyperion Entertainment is in charge of the OS project, while Amiga, Inc. is responsible for the T-shirts.
Be, Inc. was much better with delivering EVERYTHING and still went down like a rock.
Very true, though they might have continued to skip across the surface if decisions had been made differently. Anyway, the eventual sinking doesn't bode well for Amiga.
-- gary_c
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by Paul_Gadd on 2003/3/24 11:05:04
Quote:
Whay exactly do you mean by that?
Amigaworld.net - the new Amiga inc one sided PR website
http://www.morphzone.org the new Genesi one sided PR website
its seems only fair.
But fair is something you know nothing about i see.
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Paul_Gadd posted in answer to " Whay exactly do you mean by that? ":
Amigaworld.net - the new Amiga inc one sided PR website
(http://amigaworld.net/images/ask-fleecy.jpg)
I think you weakened your argument by POSTING the image without its 'CLICK HERE' Working!
That's not hard to implement:
(http://www.fongueusemare.com/images/bill.gif) (http://www.fongueusemare.com/wavs/Billw98.wav)
(OT Example - ie. Hyperlinking Image)
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@Paul_Gadd
Amigaworld.net - the new Amiga inc one sided PR website
OK well your entitled to your opinion of course!
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@vortexau
I posted it as a image only, not something what points somewhere where you can ask Fleecy nice easy questions, if you ask Moss some challenging
questions you get attacked by the die hards (see HERE) (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=277&forum=10)
I will post it here and see if anyone finds the below question sarcastic and unproductive
<>
Z5 Wrote:
"Do you find it normal that people have to pay to get information out of your company?"
BrianHoskins replied:
I don't see anyone "paying" to get these 10 questions a week answered, and it's very nice of Bill to volunteer his precious time to do it - so I would suggest we repay him with less sarcastic and unproductive questions.
<>
Dont mention T-shirts and coupons :-D
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@Paul_Gadd
So you have a thread with 5-6 people wanting "tougher"
questions (me among them), and some also asking them,
and one person wanting those questions to be less
sarcastically phrased. And on this you pass some sort of
judgment on an entire website?
Oh, man if amiga.org or ANN were held to these
standards... ;-)
You are of course free to any opinion you might have, but
admit this was a very poor example. These comments
could have appeared anywhere in Amiga-land.
.
SlimJim
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The z5 guy has asked the most honest questions on that site but will they get answered? no chance if Bouma is sending Moss the questions.
Yes it was a poor example but it shows you that there is people ready to attack someone who asks questions which are not sugar coated with the nice as pie approach.
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@Paul_Gadd
I guess with you the cup is always half empty, right? :-)
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OS4 still hasn't came yet?
I told it to lay off the viagra but it wouldn't listen.... ;-)
(sorry)
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As much as I saw of it as a visitor, AW seems to be a pretty polite site, except for a few outbursts. Maybe it has something to do with the similar attitude the users have, and lack of possibble confrontation, yet it's nice. I liked it.
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@Paul,
The z5 guy has asked the most honest questions on that site but will they get answered?
They *were* sarcastic; "do you find it normal....", when referring to something within the guy's own company is totally sarcastic. I can't believe you can't see this. Or maybe I just don't know what sarcasm is.
I agree the question should be asked but only if reworded. I stated this in the thread, as, I believe, did SlimJim. Neatly ignored.
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Yepper...
Same old thing, still going on.
:-?
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Speaking of OS4, is anybody else sick of hearing the Hyperion team getting slated for the delays etc, or is it just me?
It's not as if the world's largest operating systems producer ever hit a release date on time and that's with a devloper team and budget that totally dwarfs Hyperion by comparison.
I understand the frustration but come on guys, I'm sure theyr'e doing their best. Show a little levity. We waited a decade for a new platform. Whats a few more months?
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Karlos wrote:
It's not as if the world's largest operating systems producer ever hit a release date on time and that's with a devloper team and budget that totally dwarfs Hyperion by comparison.
How many countries' GDP do they dwarf????
It's not like making an OS for a simple device, like C=64, like you say. (Not to demean C=64, but todays tech is VERY complex.)
blubbe wrote:
Oh man, am I just tired or is it normal to
fall of the chair crying and laughing at the same
time..
Not judging anything though, just observing
my body expressing itself.
That's how I felt about most of the comments, and is why I posted in a sort of "oblivious to the rest of the thread", manner.
AmigaOne! Creating magic with a shoestring (budget).
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
My guess is that he mean AmigaWorld.
Have a look at these threads:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1577)
and:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1603 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1603)
(especially from page 3)
Being a "moderator" is hard and unrewarding work, but someone's gotta do it... (http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/83642?page=2) ;)
I think it's extra hilarious to see Bouma take the word "untrustworthy" in his mouth in THAT particular thread. :)
It's the hypocrisy that disgusts me. I wouldn't have any issues with AW.net (or OSNews.com, or "AmigaRing") if it somewhere clearly said that "content and membership on this site is arbitrarily regulated depending on compliance with Mike Bouma's personal opinions and Amiga, Inc. corporate policies". But those Terms Of Service are nowhere to be found. It's just (apparently incorrectly) claimed to be "AmigaWorld.net - Amiga community portal", with a stated aspiration of becoming "the central Amiga community portal."
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Atheist wrote:
How many countries' GDP do they dwarf????
It's not like making an OS for a simple device, like C=64, like you say. (Not to demean C=64, but todays tech is VERY complex.)
The problem is - their task is not to make a brand new Operating System. It's just port an existing operating system to a different architecture. It's not even an expectation to have all of it's parts PPC native. Everything is at their disposal - 68K emulators, AmigaOS sources, etc.
It's not a simple task though - but not that ridiculously hard. The delays are out of different reasons methinks - low budget, parallel tasks (game porting, partly due to low budget maybe) as you suggest may be a better argument.
I have to say, Hyperion in many ways similar to Haage und Partner. They have a firm hold and understanding of their interests and rights, and they have the support of the community. Haage gave us 2 operating systems. I presume Hyperion will just as well give us 2 or more, before being public enemy in the eyes of the fanatics.
Let them work. Delays have little consequences in Amiga land. We're all used to it.
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Karlos wrote:
Speaking of OS4, is anybody else sick of hearing the Hyperion team getting slated for the delays etc, or is it just me?
It's not as if the world's largest operating systems producer ever hit a release date on time and that's with a devloper team and budget that totally dwarfs Hyperion by comparison.
I understand the frustration but come on guys, I'm sure theyr'e doing their best. Show a little levity. We waited a decade for a new platform. Whats a few more months?
Karlos, i agree. There is one worry though. The longer it takes, the longer Hyperion is a company without any income. And you have to have income to survive. That is my main worry.
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@Karlos
Completely agree mate - give `em a break!
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@z5: It isn't completely true. As far as I know, Hyperion's income comes everywhere else than Amiga/Linux products (games) :-(
One reason for the delay is (as the Friedens have said) that they have to do contract work to support OS4 developing.
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Warface wrote:
The problem is - their task is not to make a brand new Operating System. It's just port an existing operating system to a different architecture. It's not even an expectation to have all of it's parts PPC native. Everything is at their disposal - 68K emulators, AmigaOS sources, etc.
What you have got to keep in mind is that most of the AmigaOS kernel source is written for 68K, in asm. Just moving the code to C, whilst maybe not that difficult conceptually, is nonethless a time consuming task in itself.
Further to that, it isn't a port exactly. There are many features that are not present in previous versions of the OS, including a total rewrite of Exec, and other critical resources. Also, as far as I understand it, Hyperion are working hard to make the system as PPC native as possible.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more work than people seem to think.
Anyway, nice to see that we have some positive opinions here too :-D
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Karlos wrote:
What you have got to keep in mind is that most of the AmigaOS kernel source is written for 68K, in asm. Just moving the code to C, whilst maybe not that difficult conceptually, is nonethless a time consuming task in itself.
Further to that, it isn't a port exactly. There are many features that are not present in previous versions of the OS, including a total rewrite of Exec, and other critical resources. Also, as far as I understand it, Hyperion are working hard to make the system as PPC native as possible.
What I'm trying to say is that there is a lot more work than people seem to think.
Anyway, nice to see that we have some positive opinions here too :-D
Exactly. A simple port would take 3 month or 6, presuming the appropriate 68K emulator is available, the only task then is to rewrite hardware dependant system parts.
There is no doubt that their current task is more challenging, but it's not the only factor in existence. (This cannot explain why they didn't progressed with the integration of the 68K emulators since november)
I just want to emphasize, one cannot explain why it takes so long by the difficulties of the task alone.
That's where real life comes into picture - there are bills to pay, there is no income from the OS4 project, etc, etc. The rest is history.
Strictly IMHO of course
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"enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro"
:-o
:-P ;-) :-P
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ksk wrote:
"enjoying my new PC with 2000 Pro"
:-o
:-P ;-) :-P
Yeah, this is arcane to me too.
Well, I can't see any update anywhere, just WHEN is OS4 due out ??
pX
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And the Hyperion boys don't say nothing...
Please give us a tease !!! :-P
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I understand the frustration but come on guys, I'm sure theyr'e doing their best. Show a little levity. We waited a decade for a new platform. Whats a few more months?
To some, me thinks it must be an eternity. Hyperion should hire someone to do hand-holding for the community.