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Author Topic: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!  (Read 5734 times)

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Offline Fixer

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2007, 02:39:01 PM »
I actually like Quicktime movs for this type of thing, but I don't like Quicktime player.

I use QT Lite - it is basically just the embedded part of Quicktime for your browser. No other nonsense!

It's up to date as well for the latest versions of Quicktime files.
 

Offline Merc

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2007, 02:46:04 PM »
Quote

Flashlab wrote:
Couldn't watch the demo because I had to download Quicktime. I hate Quicktime on Windows...


Quicktime Alternative
 

Offline downix

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2007, 02:46:35 PM »
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Hey Nate!

My house is still only a 1 Mac house. We currently have 2 Ubuntu boxes and 1 XP box. I am seriously considering buying 2 more new Macs for X-Mas to replace 2 of these for the wife and kids. For myself, I am still on the fence. I am impressed, but I really want a full tower with expandability but Mac Pro's are damn expensive. I may keep using Ubuntu Gutsy myself, which in itself is pretty damn impressive. But I guess that would be a whole new thread :-)

One more Mac than I have right now.  Saving up for a MacMini this christmas.  (it's more than enough computer for a 2nd system).  Right now we are an XP, Ubuntu, Solaris and AROS house.
And the iMac seems pretty expandible to me if you use an external Firewire or USB case.
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Offline Hans_

Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2007, 02:55:38 PM »
Just watching the first few minutes, the AmiDock author has some work to do (hint hint Stefan Robl). Ironically, AmiDock already has a "stack"-like concept in it's subdocks. However, it's not as convenient as OSX Leopard's. You can emulate the grid stack layout by dragging and dropping a directory onto the dock; clicking on it will then bring up that directory in a window. Once again, similar, but not quite as nice.

Coverflow is definitely nice and we definitely don't have anything like it. Workbench is overdue for an overhaul.

Quicklook like functionality could be implemented via the datatypes system and multiview, if more datatypes were made. I've always suggested that things like Flash and PDF viewers should be turned into datatypes.

Time machine looks like a really well done backup system. The fact that all other OS features can be used directly on backups is impressive. I'm guessing that the backups are mounted like a filesystem.

We have the start to spaces with screens and switcher3D (OS4 only). It definitely needs a lot more work though.

iChat theatre like functionality could once again be done via more datatypes, if we had an iChat program to begin with.

It's clear that Apple have worked hard on making organization of information easy. Most of it is taking existing stuff, and just adding extra functionality that's easier to use. The result is definitely impressive.

Hans
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
 

Offline Fester

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2007, 03:19:33 PM »
I've never been a fan of Apple. This changes my mind. The eye candy and features are attractive. Loved the Time Machine especially.

 

Offline uncharted

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2007, 03:56:10 PM »
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
You gotta watch THIS Leopard tour! Cybereye and I watched this last night and both came to the conclusion that this is no longer in question, Apple has taken over where Amiga should have been, would have been, could have been, but isn't.


MIPS and I were saying this 5 years ago when Apple released Jaguar.  The OS hasn't really changed all that much since then, there have been a bunch of nice features (expose springs to mind) and a bunch of features that are cool-sounding, but not particularly useful (dashboard).  Overall though, not much has really changed, because they got the basics right from that start (Although some might argue that the Finder has been fundamentally broken for some time)

What's annoying is that Gateway-Amiga plans were essentially along the same lines.  I wonder if, had the MMC been released with a QNX or Linux based core, we'd be enjoying similar success right now.
 

Offline iMacMiga

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2007, 04:18:42 PM »
Yeh I'v also held this view for years. The Easy-to-use-but-powerful-and-rewarding approach Apple use now is very similar to Amiga.

I *hate* the new Dock though. Sure it looks pretty but it's wholly impractical. It takes up too much room (in comparison to the old one, and yeh I know you can change the size but it's still annoying), you can't tell what's running because the white dots are wiped out by all the background noise from the reflections. Thankfully I found a hack to enable the simplified version (used if you have the dock on the left or right) at the bottom, so I did that. It looks way nicer now :)

As far as Gateway-Amiga goes they wanted to make Amiga into a viable x86 platform way back in the 90s, using the Amiga ideal to power a totally new computer platform. The Amiga community (or at least a large part of it) blindly insisted they stick to PowerPC, which was too expensive and was outside the areas Gateway wanted to explore (being a x86 PC maker). I think in the end Gateway gave up and basically told the community to shove it, mostly out of frustration at not being able to push the Amiga platform forward. It could have lead to great things - Gateway have a large leverage in the PC industry and could have put up a decent fight. They'\d have become another Apple, with their own platform and their own OS, and they have seen the advantage then of what Apple have seen now when they transitioned to Intel - if you can do a lot of stuff really well in your OS *and* run Windows for the stuff that people can't run on your OS you are in a win-win scenario. I mean for gods sakes Apple Intel computers are common fodder at companies like Microsoft because they are good products hardware-wise (for work at least ;) ), they run the software they need, and also their closest competitors software as well :D
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Offline Hodgkinson

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2007, 05:07:16 PM »
A bit OT, but I've got a Mac PowerPC Performa 5300 with keyboard and mouse which, if anyone can collect, then you can have it for free (Seems to be in working condition).
 
I also have another Mac mainboard (Decimated) + RAM + cable loom + cable loom SCSI adaptors + internal Mac floppy drive from some towered Mac system that was taken apart (Though not by me...) that i'll also gladly give away to anyone who can collect it.

PM me if your intrested,
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Offline little

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2007, 05:39:39 PM »
Quote

iMacMiga wrote:
As far as Gateway-Amiga goes they wanted to make Amiga into a viable x86 platform way back in the 90s, using the Amiga ideal to power a totally new computer platform. The Amiga community (or at least a large part of it) blindly insisted they stick to PowerPC, which was too expensive and was outside the areas Gateway wanted to explore (being a x86 PC maker). I think in the end Gateway gave up and basically told the community to shove it, mostly out of frustration at not being able to push the Amiga platform forward.

I think you are being naive if you think a big PC vendor will bow to the will of the (by then) nearly nonexistant amiga community. I do not have proof but I do believe the rumor that it was Microsoft the one that told Gateway to get rid of the Amiga IP. As you have said, Gateway would have become another Apple (hardware vendor with nice propietary OS) and M$ could not allow that.
 

Offline da9000

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2007, 07:39:56 AM »
Quote

swift240 wrote:
If Leopard were to become available for my PC I would get it.


Revelation: a Mac *IS* a PC, and I don't just mean a "Personal Computer", I mean: it has an x86 compatible CPU and it *DOES* run Windows.

In fact, it's like buying TWO computers in ONE.

And believe me, after you play with Leopard, you will dump the "PC" side so fast, as if it was a virus eating up your hard disk space (oh wait, it IS a virus!)


A general comment based on the intial comment and couple of the following comments:

what makes Apple's OS and software so good, is the ideology behind it's programming/development environment (Cocoa):

You see, when Steve Jobs went to Xerox PARC (if you don't know of them, please do some wikipedia research), he got some of the most brilliant technology ideas of the previous century.

Scientists and engineers at Xerox PARC had not only developed the first laser printer, the first Ethernet network, the first mouse, but they were also doing some incredible software innovations (not of the Microsoft "innovation" type).

Steve Jobs said that in creating the Macintosh and it's GUI, he was so blinded by the GUI concept from Xerox PARC, that he had forgotten the other two major scientific innovations: object oriented programming and networking.

After he left (or thrown out of) Apple in 1985 he created one of the most amazing computer companies: NeXT Computers.

That's when he actually remembered to have his engineers implement those two extrememly powerful technologies at NeXT Computers. What came out with in two years, and improved over the next 7 years until 1994 was the uber-amazing, "AmigaOS for the serious boys" NeXTSTEP operating system. It was advanced in many ways, but one of the most powerful was the fact that the applications relied on a fully Object Oriented programming language (Objective-C) and an equally powerful and a complete API (much like Java, C#, Perl, Python, etc have created years later), as well as UI layout tool which allowed chaning the application UI without recompiling an app. This allowed them to create applications far faster and better (code re-use = less bugs), and much more easily (Objective-C is really *clean* and elegant compared to the dirty rotten pile that you have with C++).

Anyways, this technology conglomerate became Mac OS X, and was further improved (unlike what a previous person commented, a TON of changes have happened under the hood of OS X since 10.1, to 10.2 which had the first Quartz Extreme implementation, a lot of cleanup and integration going on, improvements in all aspects of the kernel and especially the APIs such as Core Animation, Core Sound, Core Data, Quartz Compozer, stuff that allows Apple to come out with killer apps like Time Machine, Cover-Flow, iLife '08 - do check it out, or even developer tools like X-Ray), which leads to some amazing applications. Check out what's in OS X, but also apps like Delicious Library (http://www.delicious-monster.com/).

Prepared to be blown away with the type of applications that will be coming out now that Leopard is here. We're at the edge of a major paradigm shift in desktop application presentation and dynamics. In fact, I can forsee Apple changing the HCI paradigm: multi-touch and voiceover anyone?

For the tech-heads, all I have to tell you is how simple it's to do animated GUI elements: 2 lines of code, using Obj-C 2.0 with managed code. That's IT. Try out the latest XCode/Interfact Builder - it's a killer duo!

Amiga was my Amiga of the 20th century. Apple is my Amiga of the 21st century.

Cheers


EDIT: a clarification for the inebriated: what I mean when I say "Apple is my Amiga for the 21st century" is not that Apple is creating the groundbreaking technology like Amiga did when it burst into the scene in 1985. Macs are "just" plain PCs, and their OS is from the 1980s actually. Nothing "new" there. What's new is that the features they bring forth, especially to developers and users, were "lost" because for the last 15 years it has been a Microsoft show. Stagnant. Boring. Convoluted. Bloated. Unimaginative. And further more their awesome integration, which is what Apple is really good at, is making them more valuable and prominent and in the end causing a major shift in desktop application programming and very likely soon in the UI too.

I'm still waiting for "the Amiga of the 21st century". A hardware & software package, that just blows everything we've known as customary away. Apple's doing well on the software part. I wonder if they can manage the hardware part... Time will tell.
 

Offline Chubbyrain

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2007, 08:13:35 AM »
Was a nice demo and expanded on a few of the things I had 'ooohed' and 'ahhhed' at when I first saw the Leopard features. Interesting that you have to have the new dock unless you fiddle with it. Otherwise, it all just looks so slick.

Sadly, Mr Jobs Esq. will never release it for the PC. He kicked all the clones to the kerb when he returned to Apple. He wants you to buy the hardware. I personally don't mind, since I love Apple's design department. However, I would agree that the prices do need to come down. I'm talking Mac Mini at $300, iMac starting at $699 and so on.

I also think that Apple should bring out something more powerful than the iMac and less powerful than the Mac Pros and price it somewhere in between. Aim for 20% of the desktop market in a years time and get the masses interested.  People generally feel Macs are too expensive (even if that is not 100% true anymore). Change that mindset and then Dell/HP etc. can begin to worry. Give people a real alternative to the horror that is Vista.

As for me, I was going to pick up Leopard upon my return from Europe. After seeing that demo, I think I may have to pick it up much sooner.

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Offline XDelusion

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2007, 08:17:07 AM »
 For those who hate using Apple's software to view MOV files, there is always the alternate quick time package which gives you the ability to watch quick time on other movie players I.E. Media Player Classic, or you can use Video Lan Client on most MOV's.

http://www.codecguide.com/download_qt.htm

http://www.videolan.org/


As for Mac...

...well I still don't think software bloat is in the spirit of Amiga, but they do make for a better enviroment to work on Large Media files I.E. Avid Pro, as opposed to using Windows, that is for sure!

 Unfortunatly, Amiga is more likely to get cool eye candy, than decent video production tools like in the old days. Without that, Amiga's only half an Amiga. :(
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline weirdami

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2007, 11:28:16 AM »
@FlashLab

Rock on over to Quicktime Alternative, homey.
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Offline McVenco

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2007, 01:22:31 PM »
Quote

Fester wrote:
I've never been a fan of Apple. This changes my mind. The eye candy and features are attractive. Loved the Time Machine especially.



I *have* been an Apple fan for a long time (but haven't used it in years really). All the things showed in this guided tour video can be summed up to one single thing which Apple always had, and Windows never even came close to: being user-friendly.

MacOS does what the user wants, while Windows does what it wants the user to do.

And Time Machine indeed is a very impressive and useful piece of software. Windows probably would let you restore a complete backup before you even could start searching for a file.

Hmm.. maybe I'll start saving for a Mac. This video sure impressed me.
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Offline hooligan

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Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2007, 01:50:25 PM »
XP. No competition. (at least till they get proper driversupport in Vista)
 

Offline Hans_

Re: OSX Leopard is released, looks like the new Amiga. No joke!
« Reply #29 from previous page: October 28, 2007, 02:14:06 PM »
@everyone who thinks that Steve Jobs is the most amazing guy on the planet

Please go to the reality distortion field entry in wikipedia. The phrase was coined to describe Steve Jobs. In some ways he's more cut-throat than Bill Gates. Just beware that this guy excels at convincing people of anything, including his own greatness.

Having said that, OSX Leopard does have some impressive features, and well thought out GUIs to use them. Hoever, there are two things in the Apple design philosophy that I've never liked: the closed system approach, and locking in to Apple products. Locking in to Apple doesn't seem to have changed, just look at things such as the iPod and iPhone. Both are locked in to Apple services (or Apple sanctioned AT&T). Has Apple become less restrictive about developer documentation? Providing all the documentation freely is a requirement for me to even consider anything as "the next Amiga."

Hans
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