Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: Themamboman on October 20, 2002, 12:08:33 AM
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I've heard references and rumors on the internet that part of AROS is based on original Amiga OS code? Is this true?
How did they get hold of it? Did Bill McEwan make a special deal with Aaron Digulla or something?
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Oh, well, we're getting the first trolls: this must mean we're becoming famous :)
Fabio Alemagna
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Oh the trolls have been here for a long time =).
Anyway, AFAIK AROS is all based on reverse-engineered code.
And that's allowed AFAIK
AFAIK
Seems I'm not sure of a lot here ;-).
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did shawn get a new name :P hahahahahahahahaha
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but seriousely didnt AROS steal some source code
;-)
'trolling is fun but dont let it become a habit'
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Oh the trolls have been here for a long time =).
Quoting myself:
We are getting the first trolls
"We" as in "We, AROS Team"
this must mean we are becoming famous
Again, "we" as in "We, AROS Team".
I should perhaps start using a signature :-D
Anyway, AFAIK AROS is all based on reverse-engineered code
AROS is based on the documentation available, mostly, and for a minimum part on reverse-enginnering, where "reverse-enginnering" means just that you basically build test programs which you run on AmigaOS, and from their behaviours you deduce the functioning of the matter being tested.
That is, of course, not illegal.
Fabio Alemagna
AROS Developer
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I dunno why AROS would get trolls .... its an open source project.... I think it's a step in the right direction for Amiga and I hope it develops into something good...
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Its not true.........
Notice the full stops, this stops HERE...
Amiga Inc have publicaly announced they are keeping a very close eye on some people. That is, i believe that to be MorphOS. I have no idea, nor do i care if they have stolen Amiga Inc IP. They corts will handle it.
But as far as this thread goes, AROS have not stolen anything. Unless of course they have been sharing code with MorphOS (which they ahve) and that code is Amiga IP.. hehe :)
Guys, dont worry about it. They courts will handle it.
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Odin, you could not be more incorrect.
Anyway, AFAIK AROS is all based on reverse-engineered code.
Wrong, they've written it from scratch. If it was reverse engineered code, dont you think they would be a little bit further down the track. They only just got a Workbench clone done.
No offence AROS team, its great stuff, i love it :)
And that's allowed AFAIK
Wrong again. How could this ever be allowed? Reverse engineering requires decompiling. This is very illegal, because it gives a print out of what code went into producing the binary to get an exact copy. This is Very Illegal.
AFAIK
Yes well...
Seems I'm not sure of a lot here ;-).
You dont say :)
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Oh, well, we're getting the first trolls: this must mean we're becoming famous :)
Oh come on, admit it, you felt left out of all those aos vs mos dog fights. ;-) Look at it this way, it will now have the publicity and recognition it deserves! Long live AROS!
- Mike
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I think you mean Morphos not AROS...
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Wrong, they've written it from scratch. If it was reverse engineered code, dont you think they would be a little bit further down the track. They only just got a Workbench clone done.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Whilst AROS has been written from scratch, that doesn't mean that some reverse engineering hasn't taken place. But don't get scared, read below...
Wrong again. How could this ever be allowed? Reverse engineering requires decompiling. This is very illegal, because it gives a print out of what code went into producing the binary to get an exact copy. This is Very Illegal.
... no, that's incorrect. Reverse engineering is VERY different than decompiling: decompiling implies reverse engineering, but reverse engineering doesn't imply decompiling. Read my above post for an explanation of what "reverse engineering" is, in its more general meaning, which incidentally is the one that applies here.
Even so, though, decompiling is not illegal everywhere. It's not in Europe, for example, if its scope is to reach compatibility with the decompiled product.
However, let me state again that in AROS there's no one single instrunction which is the result of the AmigaOS' decompilation.
Fabio Alemagna
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Who the hell said something like that to you. AROS, is written from scratch and in my humble opinion better than anything the official "REAL" AmigaOS has came up with.
No more Bptrs for AmigaDOS, devices and the unique way they are done on AROS alone and it's hardware abstraction layer puts it in a better class than AmigaOS.
Bill McEwan probably wishes he had AROS, because it is actually a *TRUE* ADVANCEMENT of the architecture, for which it is attempting to be similar to. And the heart of the product is not an emulation like amithlon, and for speed and size it kicks MS-Windows "BUTT*..
Thermamborman: are you sure you are not spreading dis-information purposefully to attempt to side track this project that they are working on and their success? Or cast aspursions on the product's viability cause you know it actually works better and didn't ever come from any of your named sources for the "other" product you mention..
-Don
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They seem to be running it on Intel hardware so this seems to be AmigaOS for the X86. Whoever said AROS is going to threaten AmigaOS is mistaken. It has nothing to do with AmigaOS, except it works alike. MorphOS maybe an AmigaOS clone. Of course why should one complain about it? AmigaOS and MorphOS are basically the same thing, like Linux is a Unix clone. Are the Unix people complaining? They don't seem to be. MorphOS deosn't seem to be different. If MacOS or Windows directly opposed Amiga then one should be worried. The AOS MOS fight seems to be like brother against brother. I'm not part of the Amiga community but the complaints are nonsense. I suppose all three can coexist peacefully and there will be no problem.
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The AmigaOS is largely composed of assembly language in the ROM and C. Since the assembly language only runs on the 680x0 series it's pretty hard to argue that AROS stole code from it since it was developed on and runs on other processors.
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It's strange, but I seem to subconsciously hold out more hope for the long-term success of AROS than the "others" aforementioned.
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@DethKnight
It's strange, but I seem to subconsciously hold out more hope for the long-term success of AROS than the "others" aforementioned.
I agree, AROS is a work for the community, by the community so has a more " Amiga" Heart.
I would not be surprised if the long awaited Amiga OS 5 is not AROS ported to the AmigaDE platform.....
Regards
Darren
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Okay, what the heck is going on here? I asked a simple question and I get responses like this:
DonnyEMU wrote:
Thermamborman: are you sure you are not spreading dis-information purposefully to attempt to side track this project that they are working on and their success? Or cast aspursions on the product's viability cause you know it actually works better and didn't ever come from any of your named sources for the "other" product you mention..
and another:
falemagn wrote:
Oh, well, we're getting the first trolls: this must mean we're becoming famous :)
Fabio Alemagna
I personally like AROS and hope it succeeds. I was confused on the subject, since I was under the impression that it was a re-implementation from scratch, mimicking the API and behavior.
The only reason I asked was because I've seen at least 2 or 3 references by people on the net that indicated that AROS actually used some Amiga OS source code.
For example, this is from the readme of V39.3 reqtools.library from aminet:
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This is a back port of the AROS reqtools.library -
which itself is based on the original Amiga ReqTools
sources - to AmigaOS.
==========
Also, I saw an article on OSNews.com about Morphos, and the guy mentioned that it had some Amiga OS code. I have admittedly been out of the Amiga scene for a while and only occasionally drop in to check what is going on. I remember that there was a move a few years ago to get whoever owned Amiga OS at the time to release the source.
That's it. I had no proof, I only thought that maybe Amiga Inc had opened up some source to other developers based on nothing but a few limited sentences here and there.
I only came here to ask the question. However, I was immediately attacked as a troll, a rumor-monger and someone interested in undermining the AROS effort.
What has made everyone so paranoid? To Quote the sarge in the Bill Murray movie Stripes: "Lighten up, Francis..."
8-)
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Okay, what the heck is going on here? I asked a simple question and I get responses like this:
Well, if yours was a genuine question, then I apologize, but you must understand that such questions really come as a surprise: certain facts should be clear by now.
For example, this is from the readme of V39.3 reqtools.library from aminet:
==========
This is a back port of the AROS reqtools.library -
which itself is based on the original Amiga ReqTools
sources - to AmigaOS.
==========
Well, ReqTools has never been part of AmigaOS, it's always been a free library for everyone to use. I'm not sure whether it was open source originally, though.
Also, I saw an article on OSNews.com about Morphos, and the guy mentioned that it had some Amiga OS code.
I hope you misunderstood, because otherwise that guy must be spanked. What is true is that both MOS and AmigaOS use code FROM AROS.
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==========
This is a back port of the AROS reqtools.library -
which itself is based on the original Amiga ReqTools
sources - to AmigaOS.
==========
ReqTools isnt part of AmigaOS. There.
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blubbe wrote:
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This is a back port of the AROS reqtools.library -
which itself is based on the original Amiga ReqTools
sources - to AmigaOS.
==========
ReqTools isnt part of AmigaOS. There.
Well now I know. For some reason, I thought it was an OS library.
I do hope AROS succeeds. What I've seen so far has been very impressive.
Thanks for clearing this up for me.
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In fact, decompilation is not illegal. But in any event there are no decompilers available for the Amiga anyway, AFAIK. Does anyone know of any Amiga decompilers?
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do you have to decompile on the amiga?...
the act of alot of things is not illegal it's the 'selling' or 'use' of it that is...
the AmigaOS eula isnt very spacific...
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Oh let's not talk EULA okay?
You must be a PC person, I don't remember any Commodore products besides AmigaVision having a real EULA (End-User-License-Agreement) that gave you only specific rights. I think saying Amiga Inc has control there is beyond laughability.
I was a developer recognized by CATS (Commodore-Amiga technical support) which published most of the documentation on the OS anyway, and let's see Escom, Amiga Technologies GmBH, Gateway, let's spin the wheel vanna I could name 3 or more sources off the web right now.
You could easily get documentation from sources today other than Amiga Inc. They have really not done that much coding at the main level of the operating system themselves to even warrant giving them any credit at all). Remember the OS upgrades were done out of house and Commodore and Escom are OUT OF (AMIGA) BUSINESS... All of my developer documents and compilers even those from SAS mention nothing about Amiga Inc.
I could release a product for the Commodore-Amiga computer and be well in my rights not to mention Amiga Inc, even in passing and not owe Amiga Inc. a dime and not take ANY INFORMATION from them. I'd also probably still be very compatible with the products they hold.
I could also come out with a clone product closely resembling but not being the same code and it's a new product and not have stolen any of their intellectual property.
They don't get all of the cookies just because they own the rights now, nor are they the holy grail of informations sources. I think developers around from the Commodore-Amiga days would agree with me there. I look at the Amiga developer support network and I wonder, where is all the documentation, if Amiga isn't designing hardware, they could at least be bringing new documentation to life.
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>do you have to decompile on the amiga?...
Why not, that is like asking "do you have to program on the amiga", "do you have to play games on the amiga", etc.
I get the impression that you have the impression that I was going to decompile AmigaOS itself, or in some way harm the Amiga. As most of AmigaOS is written in assembly language you would need a disassembler, not a decompiler.
I was more interested in decompiling some of the older Aminet programs which were written in C but to which the source is not available.