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Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2010, 07:34:08 PM »
Quote from: Varthall;564925
How many plugins are available for OWB, compared to Firefox?

MorphOS OWB: 1 *
OS4 Timberwolf: 0

We are talking about plugins here, the ones you can check with about:plugins right?
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2010, 07:49:24 PM »
@framiga

I*used MorphOS since the first release and also OS4 (years before it was released and years after it was released) and you must have some configuration problem in you MorphOS install because it's faster than OS4 in almost everything. I have used it with Permedia2, G-Rex+Voodoo3, PicassoIV, CV3D and CV64 and gfx were always faster in MorphOS. You can install more recent Ambient builds and also WB, but MorphOS always works faster. No just in my machine but also in my friends ones. Gfx, 68k emulation, I/O, response speed... all is faster with MorphOS. The only missing stuff from 1.4.5 is the tcp/ip stack but you can install mosnet/miamidx/Genesis... even some OS4 beta components like Roadshow 68k ;-)
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Offline Crumb

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2010, 08:33:40 PM »
Quote from: Varthall;564925
Some of them are quite important, though: Abiword and Gnumeric, or Timberwolf.


X11 ports? no thanks. Any x11 thing on Amiga is an example of quick'n'dirty port that should have never been published.

Timberwolf port is primitive and not really useable compared to any real browser. It's funny you present a pre-alpha crashy thing as a flagship.

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Where did you get this information?


go to os4depot. If you take away quick SDL ports and unix cli command apps there's nothing much left that worths to be listed.

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And it's only with the Os4 version that you should do the comparison, since the original poster has asked opinion on OS4 itself, not a comparison with MOS or other OSes. The fact that OS4's version of Mplayer lags behind MOS' one doesn't make it less useful.


Since he has the chance of running a better MPlayer version in a Peg2 thanks to MorphOS I think it's quite related.

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AFAIK Efikas are still sold as new, but they are not produced anymore. Anyway, Efikas are more limited in specs and expandibility than Sams.


I could say that any ACube hardware is not produced anymore since the produce just a few dozens of boards from time to time. Efikas may be limited but still only cost a fraction of the price of Sam440 and you can try out MorphOS on them for free (just like in any other hardware like Peg2/Mac Mini/PPC*Classics) while you have to pay around 500Euros to try out OS4 on Sam440. I bet the limited Efikas will run Quake2 faster than a 50% faster Sam440. And USB file transfer also works faster on Efikas despiting its limitations.


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Ok, but then compare second hand OS4 machines with second hand ones for MOS.


No problem, take any eMac/Mac Mini and enjoy the power of altivec now.

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You can buy various USED Mac Minis for the price of an USED Sam440, perhaps.


Sure.

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I hoped that too, but it seems that ACube's financial possibilities at the time were too limited to allow it.


The same story Eyetech and others told us: buy this thing you don't really want so we get more money to produce the thing you want. We would be in a far better situation if Moana had been released.*3rd party hardware producers could still release new hardware for those who think having new prototypes sold to endusers is important.

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Define hackish.


Sam460.After plugging a decent gfx card and a SATA*PCI card you will have 0 free slots, nothing brilliant.

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But how much will these two missing features affect the overall performance of the board?


small cache will make that emulators runs slowly and lack of Altivec will hit multimedia performance and even old Pegasos2/G4 performance may be higher.

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Unless the buyer isn't more interested in new hardware.


If buying new prototypes hardly tested, hard to replace and with G2s cpus from decades ago is your idea of "new"... I prefer hardware well tested produced in hundreds of thousands of units, easy to replace, faster and cheaper.

Quote

How many plugins are available for OWB, compared to Firefox?


Does any of those Timberwolf plugins allow you to watch youtube videos fullscreen?*no? too bad.

Quote

What you don't like about theirs Quake3 port?


It's slow and buggy and even they aknowledged it when it was released "as is".
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2010, 08:52:08 PM »
what a silly argument!  I can tell you a setup that smokes all of them-my 5 year old P4 with 4G of DDR (not even DDR2!) ram and an Nvidia 7000 series card running E-UAE and OS 3.1 under Linux.  Hmm....my browser is the latest firefox...has the latest mplayer...runs WinXP under virtualbox...in other words, there is little to nothing this computer can't handle.  For the price of a macmini and morph or the price of OS4 and an X1000 I can build a modern 8-12Gb DDR3 12 core ape-raper that can run everything and anything I could care to.  The OP wanted some reasons why OS4 is fun.  He evidently doesn't want to buy a mac and morphOS.  Cut him some slack and save your "My blue e-penis is bigger than your red e-penis" for IRC.
 

Offline Crumb

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2010, 09:03:52 PM »
@TheBilgeRat

On a Mac Mini G4 I can run OSX, OS4 alpha, Linux and on MorphOS I also run latest MPlayer and my 68k software probably runs faster than it does in your old P4, just like graphics on MorphOS are faster than UAE*P96 output. BTW, nowadays I*do all my web browsing with OWB.

If a pc suits your amiga needs good for you :-)
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Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2010, 09:23:39 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564928
MorphOS OWB: 1 *
OS4 Timberwolf: 0

We are talking about plugins here, the ones you can check with about:plugins right?

Check the generic meaning of plug-in, then see the context of my question to find out what I was referring to.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Norway

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2010, 09:32:50 PM »
Quote from: runequester;564814
from those who use it, or have in the past, how is amiga OS4 ?

Whats cool and fun ?


The Positive users!!!

They dont use EVERY opertunety to downtalk other Operating System....
 

Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2010, 09:43:01 PM »
Quote from: Varthall;564952
Check the generic meaning of plug-in, then see the context of my question to find out what I was referring to.

Varthall
In a generic meaning OS4 still can't play youtube in a browser.
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2010, 09:48:36 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;564942
X11 ports? no thanks. Any x11 thing on Amiga is an example of quick'n'dirty port that should have never been published.

What make you say that's quick and dirty? By how stable it is, by its number of feature?

Quote

Timberwolf port is primitive and not really useable compared to any real browser. It's funny you present a pre-alpha crashy thing as a flagship.

And yet it's so far the best software on OS4 to e.g. download videos and mp3s from many sites. I find it funny that you imply that it's not usable at all.

Quote

go to os4depot. If you take away quick SDL ports and unix cli command apps there's nothing much left that worths to be listed.

And by taking away all the SDL and Unix ports I should realise that every SDL port made for OS4 needed no change to the makefile, or it was derived from MOS? How do you make that connection?

Quote

Since he has the chance of running a better MPlayer version in a Peg2 thanks to MorphOS I think it's quite related.

What I see from his question is just "how is OS4", I don't read it as a "please tell me what's the best Amiga environment out there".

Quote

I could say that any ACube hardware is not produced anymore since the produce just a few dozens of boards from time to time.

Well, it's just a matter of reference. I could also say that x86 PCs are not produced since they are being produced since only around 30 years which is nothing compared to 2000 years of no PC being produced. But if you choose a reference which is different you really can't continue a discussion.

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 Efikas may be limited but still only cost a fraction of the price of Sam440 and you can try out MorphOS on them for free (just like in any other hardware like Peg2/Mac Mini/PPC*Classics) while you have to pay around 500Euros to try out OS4 on Sam440.

But Sams are more powerful than Efikas, so the increase in price can be justified. And besides, MOS is anyway OT here.

Quote

 I bet the limited Efikas will run Quake2 faster than a 50% faster Sam440. And USB file transfer also works faster on Efikas despiting its limitations.

This doesn't help much since OS4 doesn't run on Efika.

Quote

No problem, take any eMac/Mac Mini and enjoy the power of altivec now.

Well, you proposed a comparation between OS4 and MOS machines, I guess it's your turn to compare them too.

Quote

The same story Eyetech and others told us: buy this thing you don't really want so we get more money to produce the thing you want.

Wow, so you're implying I didn't want to get my AmigaOne?

Quote

 We would be in a far better situation if Moana had been released.*3rd party hardware producers could still release new hardware for those who think having new prototypes sold to endusers is important.

What is the problem with these?

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Sam460.After plugging a decent gfx card and a SATA*PCI card you will have 0 free slots, nothing brilliant.

So, "hackish" = "you don't like".

Quote

small cache will make that emulators runs slowly and lack of Altivec will hit multimedia performance and even old Pegasos2/G4 performance may be higher.

Ok, so now you're saying that a Sam460 might not be worse that a Pegasos2 G4. I agree with that.

Quote

If buying new prototypes hardly tested, hard to replace and with G2s cpus from decades ago is your idea of "new"...

No, my idea of new is something that hasn't been produced years ago and that has no valid warranty. BTW where did you read that Sams are "prototypes" and "hardly tested"?

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 I prefer hardware well tested produced in hundreds of thousands of units, easy to replace, faster and cheaper.

That's the point... *you* prefer. That's different that saying that for OS4 users Peg2 are a better choice than Sams.

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Does any of those Timberwolf plugins allow you to watch youtube videos fullscreen?*no? too bad.

So the only use for a plugin is to support Flash? I use a plugin to download videos from various sites, but judging from your above sentence it shouldn't be considered useful.

Quote

It's slow and buggy and even they aknowledged it when it was released "as is".

And yet me and other people find it to be useful even if it's alpha.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2010, 09:50:40 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564958
In a generic meaning OS4 still can't play youtube in a browser.

I don't think this changes the number of plug-ins available for Firefox.

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2010, 09:54:44 PM »
Quote from: Varthall;564961
I don't think this changes the number of plug-ins available for Firefox.

Varthall

I just installed the web developer extension for giggles...

Probably not a great idea since it's toolbar menus don't use keyboard shortcuts for initial activation.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:57:04 PM by Karlos »
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Offline Piru

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2010, 09:56:30 PM »
Quote from: Varthall;564961
I don't think this changes the number of plug-ins available for Firefox.

Varthall
The number of plug-ins for certain platform has nothing to do with Firefox. NSAPI plug-ins are generic and either they're available for certain platform or they're not. These plug-ins commonly include flash, java and various media players. Porting Firefox for your platform doesn't give you these plug-ins.

As far as I can tell OS4 has 0 NSAPI plug-ins. Please educate me if I'm wrong.
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2010, 09:57:42 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;564946
For the price of a macmini and morph ... I can build a modern 8-12Gb DDR3 12 core ape-raper that can run everything and anything I could care to.


Maybe for the price of OS4 and an X1000 you can, but don't mix that up with MorphOS total system cost. With a little luck you can get a complete MorphOS G4 system (including the OS registration fee) for 200-300 EUR, depending on your HW preferences. I spent more money on *RAM alone* in the last PC I built for myself.

Quote
The OP wanted some reasons why OS4 is fun.


And someone told him that no matter how fun OS4 might be, MorphOS will be *ahelluvalot more* fun, since it's essentially the same thing only a lot better and more competent, and you know what - He was absolutely right! ;)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2010, 10:00:23 PM »
I'd just say that bashing the firefox port at this stage is a bit silly. It's still in the alpha stage. When it's at least beta, then let's see how it stacks up.

As it stands, I expected it to be a lot worse than it is. I've not actually had it crash yet. The main issues on my machine seem to be based around the user interface, rather than anything else.
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Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2010, 10:04:19 PM »
Quote from: Piru;564964
The number of plug-ins for certain platform has nothing to do with Firefox. NSAPI plug-ins are generic and either they're available for certain platform or they're not. These plug-ins commonly include flash, java and various media players. Porting Firefox for your platform doesn't give you these plug-ins.

As far as I can tell OS4 has 0 NSAPI plug-ins. Please educate me if I'm wrong.

Check again the context where I have used the word "plug-in", and see if its meaning was meant to be about "NSAPI plugins" or a more generic use of "plug-in" as in "software add-on".

Varthall
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Offline Varthall

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Re: How is OS4 ?
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 16, 2010, 10:06:10 PM »
Quote

And someone told him that no matter how fun OS4 might be, MorphOS will be *ahelluvalot more* fun, since it's essentially the same thing only a lot better and more competent, and you know what - He was absolutely right! ;)

And possibly he didn't wanted a detailed description of only the negative parts of OS4 compared to MOS, but just to know "how fun OS4 is".

Varthall
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram
MPlayer for OS4: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-amigaos/