Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: bertambala on July 29, 2006, 09:51:57 PM
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Hi everyone,
I was wondering if it would be possible to get the X-Arcade (X-Aracde Two Player (http://www.xgaming.com/two-player.shtml)) to work with the Amiga. It operates as a PC keyboard sending the signal through a cable ending with a male DB-9 connector, and from there is connected to a USB converter for use with my Mac. I know they sell separate adaptors to use this controller with the XBox, PS2, and Gamecube, but I thought it would be rather nice to use it with my miggy.
Any ideas on how I could build a convertor box to use this for two player games? Getting two buttons per person functionality would be great, though I'd even settle for one. Thanks in advance!
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You could probably wire up the x-arcade directly to the joystick ports. For more two buttons you could use the Genesis layout, or if you want more use the CD32 schematics to build an adapter.
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Hi adolescent,
Thanks for the reply. I found some info regarding the CD32 schematics, but haven't found anything regarding the Genesis layout yet - is that something I should find on Aminet? I appreciate the reply and I'll post back if I ever get it working.
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Typical one button stick (Atari style):
1 Up
2 Down
3 Left
4 Right
5 NC
6 Button1
7 NC
8 Ground
9 NC
Typical two button stick (Sega Master System*):
1 Up
2 Down
3 Left
4 Right
5 NC
6 Button1
7 NC
8 Ground
9 Button2
* On the Genesis/MegaDrive Button1=B, and Button2=C. On the Genesis, pin 7 is used to select between layouts. Genesis 6 button pads have an additional chip inside to enable the extra buttons.
The easiest thing to do is directly wire the two button style stick. This should sufice for a majority of the games. Building the CD32 circiut is a bit more involved and could be left for later.
Oh, and the real thing to worry about is if the X-Arcade itself is doing anything funny. (ie. if it already has a multiplexer...) Do you have a pinout for the X-Arcade connector?
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Ouch. Never mind, I just checked the website and this isn't going to be easy. The X-Arcade shows up as a PS/2 keyboard. Sorry to get your hopes up, but without re-wiring the X-Arcade itself it's not going to be as simple as I made it sound.
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i have one of theese which i use for MAME and my emu's (uae etc) , works great on my AmigaOne , love it to death :)
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@bertambala
Hey dude.....the solution is SUPER easy!
There is and adaptor that converts a Playstation joypad into an Amiga CD32 pad.......so just get the Playstation adaptor for that X-Arcade joystick........and then buy the adaptor for the Amiga that lets you plug in Playstation Joypads
Whalla! done!
do a search on this site...its somewhere here.
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leirbag28 : you mean, the one that is plugged to the parallel port ? It's practically useless, as most games don't use the lowlevel.library...
I'm also looking for a solution to build an X-Arcade -> Amiga adapter :)
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Any progress in building an X-Arcade -> Amiga adapter ? :)
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Maybe this PSX -> Megadrive (http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/index.php/cPath/133_135/category/amiga.html) adapter could help (used along with the PSX X-Arcade adapter). But I think some MD gamepads were not compatible with the Amiga... (especially the ones with more buttons ?)
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bertambala wrote:
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if it would be possible to get the X-Arcade (X-Aracde Two Player (http://www.xgaming.com/two-player.shtml)) to work with the Amiga. It operates as a PC keyboard sending the signal through a cable ending with a male DB-9 connector, and from there is connected to a USB converter for use with my Mac. I know they sell separate adaptors to use this controller with the XBox, PS2, and Gamecube, but I thought it would be rather nice to use it with my miggy.
Any ideas on how I could build a converter box to use this for two player games? Getting two buttons per person functionality would be great, though I'd even settle for one. Thanks in advance!
I might be oversimplifying but it says it doesn't require drivers for most OSs because it works as a standard keyboard. Since it has an adapter to go USB, wouldn't a USB card for your Amiga allow you to use it as a keyboard. The last I looked most standard USB keyboards were supported.
It's worth a try anyway. Of course, you need an Amiga USB card and a $200USD tankstick to try it out.
If it works, let me know, I'll be buying a tankstick this year for my Retro-Arcade project.
-Nyle :-D
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Of course, it probably works out-of-the-box, thanks to the USB adapter, with the Poseidon USB stack (among others)...
But what we are looking for is a way to use it with classic Amiga games, that is to say, direct hardware banging pieces of software. (no USB stack, then ;)
** Maybe ** I found a solution, but it's not sure it'll work, though, but I'll keep you informed in a couple of weeks ;)
http://tototek.com/pio/main1/SUBMENU/PARTS/LINKS/OS/mdclassicconverter.htm
+
http://xgaming.com/adapters.shtml
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http://xgaming.com/two-player.shtml
+
Amiga
=
???
What may trigger an issue, is the fact that, in my experience, there were some incompatibilities between the Amiga and 6 buttons MD controllers...
To be continued...
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mahen wrote:
Of course, it probably works out-of-the-box, thanks to the USB adapter, with the Poseidon USB stack (among others)...
But what we are looking for is a way to use it with classic Amiga games, that is to say, direct hardware banging pieces of software. (no USB stack, then ;)
Ah, I thought you wanted to use it with MAME - since you just said two players games my brain interpreted that as being with MAME.
For Amiga games I just love the old Atari Joysticks so I've never looked for a controller for that since Amiga uses them directly.
I burn some brain cells on this but I'd imagine it'd need a driver.
-Nyle
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Maybe this (PSX64 in link) could be useful :)
http://freedomirc.net/~megaboz/shredz64/
Jason
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I've just been sent this URL :
http://aminet.net/search?query=PSX+pad
Building this PSX -> CD32 pad adapter would definitely enable us to use the X-Arcade (with the official PSX X-Arcade adapter).
Problem : it requires technical knowledge & some equipment. Anyone willing to build a few ones for us ? :)
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@All
You're overcomplicating this issue way too much. All you need is an adapter that allows a PC keyboard to be used on an Amiga. The X-Arcade has programmable buttons so you can resolve any control issues once you've got the device connected.
Here's a suitable adapter project:
http://aminet.net/search?query=Epic1_2
Here's a picture of a completed board based on this project:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1551=38
Cost is around £6.
Now that an easy solution has been found, I wonder how many people will actually buy an X-Arcade for Amiga use...
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HenryCase : you do make a point, however, what many of us would like to achieve, is playing classical hardware banging OCS/AGA games, which are usually not playable with the keyboard :)
Besides, I assume this thread is rather about people who already own an X-Arcade, as there may be easier solutions for the others ;)
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@mahen
Please name me a handful of OCS/ECS/AGA games you want to play that can't be played using a keyboard. Thanks.
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er.. almost all of them?
but I don't see why is all this such a big problem, just open the damn thing and solder some wires to switches (preferably keeping the wires that are already there)
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@orange
Almost all of them?
Ok, this is some useful information for building a X-Arcade adapter from scratch:
http://pinouts.ru/Inputs/KeyboardPC6_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Inputs/AmigaMouseJoy_pinout.shtml
http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/scancodes2.html
http://www.aminet.net/docs/misc/cd32joy.lha
http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/intro.html
What you'd need to do is use a programmable chip, a PIC for example, that read the PS/2 codes and triggered a signal which the Amiga could understand as joystick input. Shouldn't be too hard.
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@All
I think I've found another ready made solution, but first I need someone to answer this question: Do joysticks designed for the C64 work with Amigas? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'd like some confirmation before I post my idea.
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Wouldn't it be easier to use this thing for playing games under WHDLoad, rather than "native"?
I think it's far easier to make WHDLoad use the X-Arcade as a joystick, than to make some sort of adapter to make it being recognised by the Amiga as a joystick via the joystick port..
Just my €0,02
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McVenco wrote:
Wouldn't it be easier to use this thing for playing games under WHDLoad, rather than "native"?
Ummm... no. Not even slightly. :) It's just not that simple, I'm afraid.
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I was thinking about making one myself, of spare parts :-)
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OK so I finally tested the Megadrive Gamepadconverter along with the X-Arcade PSX adapter : it doesn't work, probably due to the incompatibility of the Amiga with many Megadrive gamepads.
Actually, it behaves as if the player was always going to the left while pressing the fire button :)
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Ok, so nobody bothered to answer my question about C64 joysticks, but I thought I'd post the idea anyway. Actually, I realised after my post that Pertinax had found the same solution earlier, to use the Shredz64 control adapter.
This is the main summary of the Shredz64 project from its homepage:
"The Shredz64 project is an attempt to build an interface to connect the Playstation Guitar Hero controller (and any other PS controller) to the Commodore 64 computer, then create a Guitar Hero like game on the C64 utilizing the guitar controller."
So if we use the PSX control converter for X-Arcade, and plug it in to the Shredz64 PSX to C64 joystick converter (known as the PSX64) we'll have a way of using an X-Arcade stick on an Amiga. This way all games will work without modification (WHDLoad, etc...).
I've just e-mailed Toni Westbrook (creator of the Shredz64 project), let's see if we can get this solution off the ground.
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For what it's worth... you can get a blank X-Arcade panel, sticks and buttons parts, and built your own PCB / Wiring etc.
http://www.x-arcade.com/mame-arcade-stick.shtml
Should be very easy to make your own.
tiffers
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For that matter, if you can buy arcade bits (sitcks, buttons etc) it shouldn't be too hard to make your own enclosure and everything, looking at the way they've built theirs.
A moulded plastic 'cheap' enclosure might not be so easy, but if you take a look at http://www.lemon64.com/museum/view.php?id=77&genre=advertmisc you can see that a very nice joystick can be boxy and best used on a table top. These things were the best Amiga joystick I ever used.
tiffers
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@Tiffers
You can make your own X-Arcade stick, but this doesn't help with compatibility because if you build one purely for Amiga use you lose the ability to use the stick with other platforms, which is why an Amiga adapter is the best solution. Also, whilst its possible to build a nice joystick from scratch this topic is about the X-Arcade in particular as I gather a number of people already own the device. However, your ideas are worth discussing, especially if someone is looking for the ultimate Amiga arcade stick, as this is much more likely to be achieved by building your own arcade stick (with quality parts, Hori and Happ being the market leaders AFAIK).
As for X-Arcade owners, I have good news, the PSX64 (part of the Shredz64 project by Toni Westbrook) will definitely let you use an X-Arcade stick on an Amiga. Here are two 'exclusive' pictures sent to me by Toni himself (playing Shadow of the Beast on an A1200):
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2589/psx64tankstick1kz1.jpg)
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1889/psx64tankstick2vd3.jpg)
Schematics for the PSX64 are due out in the next couple of months, and Toni also told me he would be selling fully assembled PSX64 adapters soon after. Things are looking good!
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HenryCase : oops, sorry for not replying earlier. It definitely sounds great !
However, I wonder if the second amiga joystick button will be mapped ?
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@mahen
Yep, certainly sounds great. :-)
Toni did mention that he only had one button working when he tried it out on an Amiga, mentioned the DB9 port being a limiting factor. However, IIRC I had joysticks for my Amiga that plugged into the same type of port and had two action buttons, so I don't think there is anything limiting in the design for one button only.
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Indeed, the CD32 db9 Gamepad has even 8 buttons :)
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For those interested, I have the second button working now on the PSX64 interface (this affects Amigas and Sega Master Systems). It maps Fire 1 to X and Fire 2 to Square on the Playstation. I tested it out with a little Mortal Kombat II action on my A1200, looks good!
That marks the last update as well, so now the final revision is off to the PCB printers. Thanks for the input of adding button 2 support. :)
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Good news :)
BTW, has anyone tested the PSX64 adapter with a Minimig ? :)
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I'd like to use my X-arcade controller with amiga, but PSX64 seems to be unavailable there days :/ any thoughts where to get it?
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PSX64/Shredz64 adapters are completely crap compared to a real Playstation to AMIGA CD32 ADAPTER. Why are you all trying so hard to come up with the solution when it's already been pointed out in leirbag28's post way up the top of this thread?
Do you only want to be able to use one or two buttons, or do you want to be able to use SEVEN (six plus the Play/Start button)? There are adapters that remap every one of the Playstations buttons and analogue control sticks to Amiga CD32 buttons and mouse movements. Forget those adapters that are designed for other systems, you're just limiting yourself!
Get a real Playstation-to-CD32 adapter and solve all the problems you'll ever have for playing native games on any Amiga. These things plug into the standard DB9 joystick ports, just in case anyone was still thinking of the ancient parallel adapters that came out in the 90s and were only supported by a few Amiga games.
And for those people who probably still don't understand, YES you can use a CD32 controller in an Amiga that isn't a CD32. This means any Playstation/Playstation2 compatible joystick/controlpad/steeringwheel/mouse/guitar will work on any classic Amiga with a joystick or mouse port on it.
You can see these adapters in action here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apd_H6gcgAs&feature=channel_page
You can also contact Paul on YouTube and ask if he can make an adapter for you. We're currently in the process of trying to arange a bulk lot of these adapters to be manufactured so anyone can readily buy them and use any PS2 controller on their Amigas.
I'd also like to point out to anyone looking for one, that you can get far cheaper arcade style joysticks than the X-Arcade that are still high quality (I don't mean the cheap plastic ones), so the X-Arcade isn't the ONLY option for decent quality arcade joysticks these days, it's just the one that's been marketed to you best.
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I think being able to map all the buttons is awesome - but I think calling my adapter "complete crap" is kind of rude. The PSX64 was originally designed to interface the guitar hero controller to the Commodore 64, and I added in functionality for the Amiga. And most people are buying it for the Commodore (I suspect? A good amount have bought it for the Amiga too though).
But what I'm saying is, we're a small community as it is, and the hardware hackers in it are even smaller in number. I think we should at least be respectful of one another's projects, if not friendly to each other.
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Yep, not really kind denigrating other ppl's work :)
Anyway, did anyone test either the PSX64 or Paul's adapter...
1) on a Minimig ?
2) with an X-Arcade controller ?
I also wonder whether there's an additional latency or not. When I use the stick with the PS/2 (kbd) interface on the PC, keys seem to be triggered instantly. With the additional USB adapter from X-Gaming, there's definitely a little delay. I wonder how responsive it could get with the PSX2 adapter + PSX64/Paul's adapter...
Cheers !
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For the PSX64, response is pretty spot on - this was something I worked on for a while. When you plug in a controller, it automatically does a timing auto-calibration to see how fast it can poll the controller before it starts getting crap back (each controller can only be clocked so fast) - so you're always guaranteed to get the fastest response possible for that controller.
Also, I know one person who bought two and hooked them both up to his Minimig - he had a pretty cool setup, he posted the pictures around here somewhere, I will look for them.
And it works fine with the X-Arcade, I tested it out with the X-Arcade TankStick
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thanks for answers, guys. just one button should be enough for me (okay, there are few CD32 games that are worth playing) so my decision will depend on actual availability and prize. Cheers =)
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Megaboz, I apologise if my post seemed harsh, my intention wasn't to disrespect you or your adapter, which I'm sure does its job perfectly. I just felt that it needed to be pointed out that a much more suitable solution had already been mentioned. I feel bad for using the word "crap", I was just annoyed by how everyone ignored a post about an adapter that has been specifically designed for making use of all the features of the Playstation pad for any Amiga game, with mouse support, guitar support, dance mat, everything.
Personally I prefer to use all available buttons for my games. My first Amiga was the CD32, so I've always been used to having 6 control buttons and a Pause/Play button to use in my games. When I play games like Fightin' Spirit or Super Street Fighter II, I need those extra punch and kick buttons, so naturally an adapter that was designed to support these extra buttons for this system seems like the ideal option since there are all those extra buttons on the X-Arcade.
I believe the PSX64 is still a marvellous little adapter, and Shredz64 looks like an awesome game. I'm sure if anyone wanted to play Shredz, any C64 game, or any classic Amiga game that only requires 1-2 buttons then the PSX64 should do the job just fine.
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Hey guys,
did any of you have a try meanwhile ? Is there any visible lag when using 2 adapters at the same time (X-A->PSX PSX->Amiga) ?
Cheers !
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I bought two shredz adapters from tony 2 years ago so i could use them with wireless psx pads. Not yet tested it, though :) I will test it with my replay board and the minimig.
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Megaboz
You are right, its a cool project and we are thankful for devs like you. Its not complete crap just crap?? just kidding man keep up the work and thanks!
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Woohoo, I finally had the opportunity to test an X-A on my Amiga 1200 by using both X-A -> PSX and PSX -> Amiga adapter by Paul W.
It seems to work like a charm. I still have to check if there is any noticeable delay.
Well, what sucks, though, is that the X-A I acquired got damaged (badly packaged), and it seems that the "up direction" is triggered too quickly (you barely have to make any movement at all ; thus, for instance, the characters jump without your wanting it which is especially dangerous in Jim Power :).
Well, maybe it can be tuned or maybe the micro-switch can be replaced. Too bad I suck at electronics ;)
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Hmm, I'm not sure this was due to a defective X-A but rather to the fact I was using 2*adapters at the same time.
No X-Arcade user around anymore ?
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Hey I'm late to the party but want an a adapter that will hook up X-Arcade to Amiga/Minimig. Where can I get one please?
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Well, what I eventually did : I opened the X-Arcade, removed the PCB (!!) and hooked the db9 cable wires to the arcade buttons by using a bonding lug... This is super straightforward and extremely simple but, well, then, it only works with the Amiga.... :-/ And you kinda destroy your stick !!
OR you can only wire some buttons and keep the others connected to the X-A PCB : this way, you can map keyboard keys to some buttons (for flippers for instance, spacebar etc.) and the others to the Amiga db9 joystick. [provided you have a PS/2 or USB keyboard adapter on your Amiga / Minimig / MiST...]
I can tell you the experience of playing Amiga games on an arcade stick (along with some additional buttons mapped to the keyboard) is just AMAZING.
Also you can use a button for the "up" direction which also makes many games easier...
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Also you can easily build an arcade controller. Just butcher an old joystick to get the db9 cable and connect the right pins to arcade buttons... [to make things better, also get an I/PAC or something similar to map the keyboard]
You need some wood and a couple of tools, too !