First Natami MX boards produced

[Hattig]

Smerf, these FPGA Amiga implementations are clearly not for you. Can you stop rehashing these ancient arguments again in every thread. This isn't about creating a 2011 level computer to compete with a modern Mac or PC. There's the X1000 or Sam460 for that.

It's about creating a faster classic Amiga for those of us that happen to like the old classic Amiga, but want a bit more. NatAmi has said quite clearly that they're trying to create a hypothetical "late 90s" Amiga, with faster classic Amiga hardware rather than generic modern hardware (nice as it is). Those of us with classic computers as a hobby get quite excited at the thought, and as it's a hobby and our money to spend as we like, we don't care that it costs a lot - anything electronic custom-made in limited quantities will cost a lot!

[DCAmiga]

@ Smerf
 
Yes, I probably would and why you ask ... well its simple, It is the most advanced 68K Amiga we can buy and you could plug your 4000 HD into the Natami (Via the IDE Connector) and it will work, only it will be a much more powerful machine. Natami's intentions are to be able to playback DivX, Xvid and DVD and provide enough resources and power to surf the internet and watch online videos.
Yes it will NOT compare to our Ghz Monster PC clones we all use today (except Franko ). Natami team say it will be just a good or better then a PS2 (PS2 games are still being sold atm) and just think of how many Millions (maybe billions) of dollars have been spent in R & D to get the PC where it is today. The Natami Team are regular people with regular jobs and family commitments this project is done in their spare time and using their own money for R & D. (And they havent asked anyone for funding)
So I see projects like Natami and FPGA Replay as a big step forward for Amiga and the community and as I mentioned I cant wait to see some Benchmarks. I also noticed a few people talk about speed, well I can only make refences to what i have read... Here is something I found interesting, as FPGA's come down in price more speed options will be available futher down the track.
 
Posted: July 29, 2010 by Gunner von Boehn
 
What ballpark 68K Softcore clockrate can you get?
60 nm class - 100 MHz
40 nm class - 150 MHz
28 nm class - 200 MHz (estimate)
20 nm class - 250 MHz (estimate)
 
How does the Softcore performance translates to a real 68030 in Sysinfo?
60 nm class - 600 MHz
40 nm class - 1000 MHz
28 nm class - 1300 MHz (estimate)
20 nm class - 1500 MHz (estimate)
What memory performance can you get with such an FPGA?
60 nm class - 1000 MB/sec
40 nm class - 1500 MB/sec
28 nm class - more
20 nm class - even more
 
 
For comparison:
A 4000/040 ran at 25Mhz and reaches in the order of 30MB/sec memory throughput.
A overclocked AMIGA 68060 TurboCard runs at up to 80Mhz and reaches in the order of 80MB/sec memory throughput. Compared to these AMIGAs the Softcore will give a big performance boost!
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=23738&order=&x=2

[Khephren]

and as it's a hobby and our money to spend as we like, we don't care that it costs a lot - anything electronic custom-made in limited quantities will cost a lot!

Well, I care little bit  about cost  But I can't see it costing more than doing this (well, hoping):

towering my A1200 to allow 24bit graphics card
adding a 24bit graphics card
Adding a 3D accelerator
Adding USB
Adding a 16bit soundcard
Adding a 060 accelerator

Which are things I would like my Amiga to do. But it would end up just as bulky as my A4000T, and probably stuck together with gaffer tape. And I suppose a lot of the bits would be second hand, along with the A1200 itself.

However, if flogging my A4000T/040/PIV would cover most of the cost, I think i'd probably do it. does that make me a bad person

[salax54]

It could easily fit inside one of these:
 

I seriously doubt that...  

[takemehomegrandma]

Also to all the people who said Vapour ware.... :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

While I applaud this effort and the progress it has reached this far (and thinks the pictures of the PCB are really cool), I'd still humbly want to point out that it still is just as unreleased as, for example, the Pios One, BoXeR and Dragon:

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/pios/pios1mb.jpg

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxer3.jpg

http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01915.JPG
http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01922.JPG

It still has some way to go, and from history we have learned that this is where many projects fail. Not that I think they will fail, but the "product" still isn't a *product*. So it's still vapor!

[vidarh]

I seriously doubt that...  

Why do you doubt that?

Stated measurements is 170mm x 140mm for the board. The cube is 248×195×195 mm excluding the acrylic shell.

[Khephren]

While I applaud this effort and the progress it has reached this far (and thinks the pictures of the PCB are really cool), I'd still humbly want to point out that it still is just as unreleased as, for example, the Pios One, BoXeR and Dragon:

too late for me, save yourself!, i've already flicked the excitement switch to the on position!
(granted I got caught out with the AGA, walker and boxer)

[spihunter]

Well, Commodore USA hasn't shipped anything either but that hasn't stopped you guys from making endless threads with your cheerleading in it?.

Just saying......

While I applaud this effort and the progress it has reached this far (and thinks the pictures of the PCB are really cool), I'd still humbly want to point out that it still is just as unreleased as, for example, the Pios One, BoXeR and Dragon:

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/pios/pios1mb.jpg

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxer3.jpg

http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01915.JPG
http://tdolphin.org/amikrak/amizaduszki2k6/DSC01922.JPG

It still has some way to go, and from history we have learned that this is where many projects fail. Not that I think they will fail, but the "product" still isn't a *product*. So it's still vapor!

[Louis Dias]

Boy I hate to say "I told you so!"  Well, not really.  I told you so!

Thomas Hirsch has made it known that alot of the lessons learned in "bring up" work done on the LX board will carry over onto this board.  Hence it should be "brought up" faster to where the LX is/was.
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=1¬e=33366&x=2&z=DvlYVD

The battle is downhill now...not uphill.

[cicero790]

Great work. Hope to see some vids.

[espskog]

Now, I am really keen on hearing what the pros and cons for NatAmi vs. FPGA Replay are. Very cool to see another project seeing the light of day.  Even though I am going for the FPGA Replay board, it is always nice to see how they compare technically.

So, what are the main technical differences ?
Do they offer the same functionality ?
Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
Price difference ?
Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
What can A do that B does not ?


Regards,
Espen

[persia]

I seriously doubt that...  

I have a few of the cases sitting around, one's part of a project to stuff an Intel Mac Mini motherboard into it that I'm about half way done with.  If the price for Natami is affordable I just might create such a beast out of one of the others.  I'd change the Apple logo for it of course, probably replace it with a checkmark or perhaps the A.o logo

[salax54]

Why do you doubt that?
 
Stated measurements is 170mm x 140mm for the board. The cube is 248×195×195 mm excluding the acrylic shell.

I saw nowhere mention of it being inner dimensions for the cube, so i thought it was total; but anyway, consider the blank space between the plexiglass and the inner chassis, the chassis itself, the height of the whole chassis is around 2/3 of the total cube. Then, you have to figure the jacks for key/mouse, video etc. sticking out of the mobo. This would be a tremendous mod, one that would anyway involve unsoldering jacks from the mobo, and most likely drilling, cutting etc. on the cube itself...
This pic might give an idea of the situation:
 

[takemehomegrandma]

Well, Commodore USA hasn't shipped anything either but that hasn't stopped you guys from making endless threads with your cheerleading in it?.

Just saying......

"You guys"?!

Hehe, look, the few people responsible for the flooding of Commodore USA threads are a handful of loud Hyperion supporters starting thread after thread about how much they don't want to see Commodore USA threads! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look, someone made some statement like: "in your face, you people who thought this was vapor ware", and I simply responded that it still is! Because it is! And so is "x1000" BTW. And Clone-A. And..., and..., and...

Edit: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29050

Many are the Amiga related HW projects that was shelved after the first PCB's were made, but before real commercialization. *Most* projects in fact, much more than the few examples I showed pictures of above. Maybe it is because when you have your prototype ready, you have to start thinking about the economic reality. Commercial Viability, Risk Assessment, etc. Possibly this is a *much bigger challenge* than doing the engineering stuff, and that's why almost all projects fail in this stage. I'm not saying that the NatAmi will fail. I'm just saying it's way too soon to lift the "vapor" label from it. It has yet to face its biggest challenge...

That doesn't mean I don't like the project (I honestly do), so please quit the grumpy comments...

[Ral-Clan]

"You guys"?!
Look, someone made some statement like: "in your face, you people who thought this was vapor ware", and I simply responded that it still is! Because it is! And so is "x1000" BTW. And Clone-A. And..., and..., and...

Many are the Amiga related HW projects that was shelved after the first PCB's were made, but before real commercialization. *Most* projects in fact, much more than the few examples I showed pictures of above. Maybe it is because when you have your prototype ready, you have to start thinking about the economic reality. Commercial Viability, Risk Assessment, etc. Possibly this is a *much bigger challenge* than doing the engineering stuff, and that's why almost all projects fail in this stage. I'm not saying that the NatAmi will fail. I'm just saying it's way too soon to lift the "vapor" label from it. It has yet to face its biggest challenge...

You have a very valid point and say more clearly what I mean at the beginning of this thread when I said "I won't count the chickens before they are hatched".  Although I really want this product to be released (probably more than any other in recent years) I'll still only believe it when I see the unboxing videos on YouTube or the first buy reports.

[spihunter]

You've got me wrong. I'm not being grumpy. I'm just saying that we are all well aware of how much vapor has come from Amiga projects from any stage of develpment. Look at Red's "Giant list of Amiga vapor thread"

I've never made any of those "in your face" comments and I'm not an OS4 user so I'm not sure why you seem to be linking me to any of that?

"You guys"?!

Hehe, look, the few people responsible for the flooding of Commodore USA threads are a handful of loud Hyperion supporters starting thread after thread about how much they don't want to see Commodore USA threads! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Look, someone made some statement like: "in your face, you people who thought this was vapor ware", and I simply responded that it still is! Because it is! And so is "x1000" BTW. And Clone-A. And..., and..., and...

Edit: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29050

Many are the Amiga related HW projects that was shelved after the first PCB's were made, but before real commercialization. *Most* projects in fact, much more than the few examples I showed pictures of above. Maybe it is because when you have your prototype ready, you have to start thinking about the economic reality. Commercial Viability, Risk Assessment, etc. Possibly this is a *much bigger challenge* than doing the engineering stuff, and that's why almost all projects fail in this stage. I'm not saying that the NatAmi will fail. I'm just saying it's way too soon to lift the "vapor" label from it. It has yet to face its biggest challenge...

That doesn't mean I don't like the project (I honestly do), so please quit the grumpy comments...