Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: on May 02, 2003, 12:43:59 PM
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Just imagine this for a second.
Genesi buy the rights to Amiga IP. No "Dongle" required, you can run AOS4 when it comes ot on the choice of motherboard you want, just like you can with Windows/Linux/DOS, be it an A1/Pegasos/Teron/Barbie/Apple/IBM or any boards that may be released in the future.
Healthy competition in the hardware market will bring down prices just like in the Wintel world.
I think this would be a "Good Thing (TM)"
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1051380286&category=news&number=97#comment (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1051380286&category=news&number=97#comment)
The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS. Amiga Inc. had no reason to spread all the FUD they did officially about MorphOS, particularly after we tried so hard to help them in 2000 and 2001. McEwen's 1 September "we will shut you down" threat was just more talk and on about the same level as the coupon scam. We could not allow him to continue to do this and took action. It worked. He is gone.
Back to the lawsuit...the worst case for us would be enforcing our license agreement that would require Amiga Inc. to integrate DE for use in some way with the Pegasos which would then allow us to use the trademarks (as there are some that would prefer to call the Pegasos an Amiga). Again, no big deal...users/customers can/should have the choice to call their computer whatever they want and do whatever they want with it....;-)
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If Genesi would own the rights to the Amiga IP, then my next computer wouldn't be an Amiga!!!!
How can you trust those guys???
For example bbrv!!!
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How can you trust those guys???
I trust no one but Buck said he will release products and he has done, Amiga Inc said they will release products and they have not.
People may not like BB for his comments but you can not deny the facts where products are concerned, now look at Amiga Inc and can you say the same?
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If Genesi would own the rights to the Amiga IP, then my next computer wouldn't be an Amiga!!!!
I'm with you there. Unless it were under different ownership too.
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hnl_dk wrote:
If Genesi would own the rights to the Amiga IP, then my next computer wouldn't be an Amiga!!!!
How can you trust those guys???
For example bbrv!!!
If this (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2273) should turn out to be true, then I am quite sure that many would reconsider where to put their trust!
Anyway, I don't think it will take long now until the Amiga Inc bubble officially bursts. Then it will be clear who has been lying and who has not. It will be interesting.
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How can you trust those guys???
For example bbrv!!!
Do you own any Microsoft products?
How can you trust those guys?
For example Bill Gates!!!
Microsoft are convicted felons.
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>If Genesi would own the rights to the Amiga IP,
>then my next computer wouldn't be an Amiga!!!!
Let's see: If Genesi doesn't have the Amiga IP, you
wouldn't buy a Genesi product. If they had the Amiga
IP you wouldn't buy a Genesi product either. So no
loss there for Genesi.
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If this should turn out to be true,
It is.
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@mdma
Shouldn't this thread be in "Talk about"?
It's not exactly based on anything concrete, is it.
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:-)
And maybe we would have gotten an OS4 beta?
(we would have gotten? is that english?)
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mdma wrote:
Just imagine this for a second.
Genesi buy the rights to Amiga IP.
No thanks. I'm curious about about the Pegasos / MorphOS but not curious enough to buy one.
Maybe if Amiga fold, Eyetech and Hyperion could join under the trademark.
Prices would drop as they dont have to pay the royalties to what was Amiga anymore.
The offical company would then also have a ready made dealer network and software department for in house development of the OS / Games.
Control would be back in Europe where the Amiga has always thrived.
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hmm, sawing off the branch that you sit on is often called "bad business practice".
Respect to those who deliver. That goes for BBRR too.
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Genesi had there chance to get os4 forpegasos but they blew it they might have products released but they do not have final versions of morph os yet .and hyperion are much more skilled at writing software than the morph os team .
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@Paul_Gadd
I have to agree with that really. Too many people confuse "trust" with "like". I see people desperately defending Bill and Fleecy because they like them, or demanding how you can trust Bill Buck because they don't like him or his methods.
I have to admit that I'm yet to see any evidence why - as a customer - I would be worried about trusting Genesi as a company. So far they appear to have delivered. The product may have more caveats at the moment than tends to be publicised, but they have delivered.*
OTOH, I have a great many reservations about Mr Buck's public attitide, specially when it comes to getting one over his rivals. He frequently cross the borders of decency and professionalism and that leads me to dislike his methods.
I quite like Bill McEwen, though I have never had any direct exchanges with him, and Fleecy is OK too unless his temper flares up, when he can turn really unpleasant, and he does seem to have something of a hair-trigger on it. The trouble is that I no longer trust them.
Both parties could do with polishing up their professional image, as neither gets goods marks overall.
Still, this is all moot, because I'm not too likely to become a customer of either side, for the simple reason that they don't have any products that are relevant to me.
(*) That opinion is derived from having spoken to Pegasos owners, who on the whole are happy and optimistic about their purchase, but admit that it's not all plain sailing. I tried getting similar opinions about OS4, but, needless to say, I was not quite as successful. :-P
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So A inc is bust when it comes to $$?
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It's not exactly based on anything concrete, is it.
If all goes well, I hope to have the court transcripts soon. Would that be concrete enough?
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If Genesi owned Amiga Inc you wouldn't see AOS4 on all those platforms!!
You want to know why?
Well Genesi own MorphOS but you don't see IT available on all those platforms do you?
Right case closed!
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Wayne wrote:
It's not exactly based on anything concrete, is it.
If all goes well, I hope to have the court transcripts soon. Would that be concrete enough?
I mean that the ownership of Amiga Inc. IP falling to Genesi is speculation. Besides, the forum is "Amiga OS development", isn't it?
Besides, aside from making use of the Amiga brand, there would be nothing else of use to Genesi.
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Actually right now Genesi finds it more realistic to be porting umpty-ten OSes to Pegasos, including AROS, thanks to the AROS team's interest in participating. I've also got people in Phoenix from various OS communities adding to this list of ports right now...
But that doesn't make MorphOS on other hardware out of the question, later. We'll see...
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Is this the beginning of the end for Amiga Inc ?
Wayne is dead right when he demands that the truth about Amiga Inc has to come out. Since the demise of Commodore and Escom, no new development has occured. Just empty promises and prototypes. Light has to be shed and end all this FUD and speculation. This has to be done sooner rather then later! Amiga users have waited too long, and endured too much.
Myself, I'm waiting for the release of OS4 with baited breath. However, even with the goodwill and perseverance that Hyperion and Eyetech have shown, without Amiga Inc, our platform would be surely doomed to failuire.
The Amiga OS should've moved on an X86 platform, rather then run on propriatary hardware, which Eyetech and Genesis are struggling to manufactur and deliver. I am not a big fan of PCs myself. But the parts are powerfull, readily available and cheap! And since they're tried and tested, embarassing mistakes like Genesi's Aritica chip fiasco would've been avoided.
Instead, Amiga Inc and Genesi should've chosen a set of motherboard chipsets, graphics and sound card to be supported. Then concentrate all their efforts in coding OS4 and MorphOS. Old applications could still run with 68k emulation. Thus Amiga hardware would be cheap and easily available. I know this would leave Eyetech, DCI and the likes out in the cold, but it would've ensured the uptake of Amiga operating systems. Unlike BeOS and others, MorphOS and OS4 could've counted on legions of Amiga users to buy, use, develop and evangelise their benefits vis a vis Windows and other bloatware.
AROS seems to be heading in this direction, we'll see what the future holds for this interesting development.
Alas, this is just a 'what if' scenario. The sooner we resolve this Amiga Inc mystery, the better!
Jethro Tull
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Hi,
But OS4 is in hands of Hyperion, right? I mean, if Amiga gets taken over or goes out of business then OS4 remains at Hyperion. Part of the deal they made. Correct?
Don't you just love it to go on wild guessing? :-D
Since no one comes with a straight answer instead of some meaningless words, this is all we can do. I know some things cannot be said. SDA, NDA, BDA, NBA etc :-D
Coder
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If Genesi owned the rights to Amiga IP
... i would by a pc right then... and i mean it
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@mdma:
Genesi buy the rights to Amiga IP. No "Dongle" required, you can run AOS4 when it comes ot on the choice of motherboard you want, just like you can with Windows/Linux/DOS,
How do you come to *this* conclusion? Currently MOS runs on Pegasos, and it will be released for Classic Amigas equipped with PPC accellerators. That's about it, dongle or not.
According to Mr. Buck, there will be no Teron/A1 version. A Mac version was announced, but last thing I heard about that project was that it would be a self-booting CD, acting as a kind of "content-engine" to deliver MOS applications to Mac users.
be it an A1/Pegasos/Teron/Barbie/Apple/IBM or any boards that may be released in the future.
The Barbie has been "put on hold" according to the guy working on it. The only Teron reseller is Eyetech.
Your choices for a PPC motherboard currently are: Eyetech, Genesi, Apple. OS4 will run on Eyetech's offerings, MOS on Genesi's motherboard. If, when and how one of the operating systems will be available for Macs remains to be seen.
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hnl_dk wrote:
If Genesi would own the rights to the Amiga IP, then my next computer wouldn't be an Amiga!!!!
Then what would it be?
How can you trust those guys???
For example bbrv!!!
Trust noone :)
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I think I'd leave the Amiga once and for all.
But it'd be cool if Hyperion and Eyetech took over.
IMHO that would be the best thing that could happen.
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A Mac version was announced, but last thing I heard about that project was that it would be a self-booting CD, acting as a kind of "content-engine" to deliver MOS applications to Mac users.
Games, not applications - useless games! :-D
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How do you come to *this* conclusion?
I was speculating.
I know I would rather run AOS4 on my hardware of choice, like I have been doing with DOS/Windows/Linux since 1993. Proprietory hardware is dead, commodity hardware rules the roost now and always will. If you can't beat them, join em. Imagine all the different taiwanese board manufacturers churning out POP motherboards in their millions and everyone knowing them as Amiga motherboards, just like people do now with PC motherboards. Brand awareness is a powerfull thing. If eyetech don't like the competition of different manufacturers or can't compete then they will fall by the wayside, but Hyperions product will keep going on and on as long as people want it and can run it on the hardware they choose
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Cojo wrote:
If Genesi owned the rights to Amiga IP
... i would by a pc right then... and i mean it
Well. Go ahead. Having WindowseXP or some variant of Linux with new PC could give you some healthy perspective to real world :roflmao:
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Jose wrote:
I think I'd leave the Amiga once and for all.
But it'd be cool if Hyperion and Eyetech took over.
IMHO that would be the best thing that could happen.
I agree, it would be nice if either Hyperion or Eyetech could take control of the IP (... and everything...). The best thing Amiga Inc. could do right now is tell the truth be it good or bad.
I wouldn't usually comment but I now have some money at hand for an A1 or Peg so..
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Hey Housey!
You have been missed.
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Wayne wrote:
Hey Housey!
You have been missed.
Why thankyou! ;-) Likewise..
Been kinda busy... nice to re-enter the war zone :-)
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Well. Go ahead. Having WindowseXP or some variant of Linux with new PC could give you some healthy perspective to real world
agreed ;)
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JoannaK wrote:
Cojo wrote:
If Genesi owned the rights to Amiga IP
... i would by a pc right then... and i mean it
Well. Go ahead. Having WindowseXP or some variant of Linux with new PC could give you some healthy perspective to real world :roflmao:
I agree! :-)
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by JoannaK on 2003/5/2 13:46:06
Well. Go ahead. Having WindowseXP or some variant of Linux with new PC could give you some healthy perspective to real world
Question is, if they taste the real world, will they want to come back again to here? ;)
Dammy
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I never thought i would say this, but i wouldn't mind them having the IP, IF they let the work on OS4 continue (which i doubt very much as it is in direct competition with MorphOs).
I don't like Bill Buck but then i may not like the boss of the company where i bought my fridge, my television, my bike, my car and all the rest that i ever bought.
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@ Dammy
I did. I got rid of 5 Amigas in 1998 and went to see what I'd been missing. Turns out, I was missing an OS and some games that don't work at all until I download "Updates" or "Patches". I also was missing an OS that needed to be re-installed constantly. I am back, hoping that there will be something like an Amiga again.
DoodooHead
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My take on what would happen is that the Pegasus and MorphOS would be relabelled as "Amiga" and "AmigaOS", and Eyetech and Hyperion sued so they'd rename their offerings. I don't see BBRV effectively screwing the entire MOS team by dropping their OS from the product, and given the past relationship between Alan Redhouse, Ben Hermans and Bill Buck, I doubt they'll work together. AmigaNG will essentially be rebranded Peg+MOS (not a bad thing in itself, I hasten to add).
If Eyetech and Hyperion win the "name" lawsuit, it will mean even more confusion and fragmentation (we'll have two separate and incompatible computers, both called "Amiga"). If they lose, they will just go to other markets (why be a sub-niche?) and the Amiga wil lose some of the best hardware and software talent we have. I hope Hyperion will survive financially, they deserve to. Overall, not a pretty picture.
:-( :-( :-(
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Genesi had there chance to get os4 forpegasos but they blew it they might have products released but they do not have final versions of morph os yet .and hyperion are much more skilled at writing software than the morph os team .
1. Amiga Inc. had there chance to get Pegasos as their nexGen Amiga but they blew it!
2. With all respect I have for Hyperion and their work for porting games to Amiga and now the Amiga OS 4, I think the MorphOS team has the edge :)
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> No "Dongle" required, you can run AOS4 when it comes ot on the choice of motherboard you wan
Oh, so MorphOS is available on Mac, IBM and Barbie as well ? Great news. I didn't know that, and I bet not even Genesi know that.
Sorry, but that was a rather pathetic attempt.
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> But OS4 is in hands of Hyperion, right? I mean, if Amiga gets
> taken over or goes out of business then OS4 remains at
> Hyperion. Part of the deal they made. Correct?
Yes.
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@EntilZha
Sorry, but that was a rather pathetic attempt.
Pathetic attempt at what?
I want to run AOS4 on whatever hardware I have. That would be good for Hyperion.
Wouldn't you rather have your OS run on commodity hardware? The more people using the OS the better your bank balance is, Bill Gates is a very rich man because of this.
For the record, I will be buying both an A1 and a Peg, but I won't buy an A1 until AOS4 is released. I'm in no hurry to buy it, I can wait unlike some. For me it's just a hobby, but I would rather be able to just buy a Pegasos I/II and run AOS4 on it. This ain't gonna happen, I know that, but there is no harm in dreaming is there?
Regards,
Nik
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dammy wrote:
by JoannaK on 2003/5/2 13:46:06
Well. Go ahead. Having WindowseXP or some variant of Linux with new PC could give you some healthy perspective to real world
Question is, if they taste the real world, will they want to come back again to here? ;)
Dammy
Well. At least I'm here and I know some others who are coming back if something potential enough materializes. I expect there are many others too...
Since Commodore collapsed I have been using allmost all OS:es available to X86 (OS/2, BeOS, various Unixes and windowses). And I got back (spring 2001) cause I was hoping to have New Amiga..
Lately I have been having Windowse PC for work and Linux PC for network server.. and I still wanted something different for use as a personal system. I really can't expect my latest purchase (Pegasos) to replace either of them right now (perhaps ever?) but at least it'll gives me chance to have something with personality.
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mdma wrote:
The more people using the OS the better your bank balance is,
Danger! Danger! Common sense detected! User will be rectified to True Amigan Thinking in 3... 2...
;)
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Danger! Danger! Common sense detected! User will be rectified to True Amigan Thinking in 3... 2...
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
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by EntilZha on 2003/5/2 22:12:51
> But OS4 is in hands of Hyperion, right? I mean, if Amiga gets
> taken over or goes out of business then OS4 remains at
> Hyperion. Part of the deal they made. Correct?
Yes.
REALLY??? Then I only have one thing to say to
Amiga Inc: PLEASE GO BUST.
Hyperion rocks, God bless 'em. And...
in case anything goes wrong with that, then plan b:
God bless Morphos.
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z5 wrote:
I never thought i would say this, but i wouldn't mind them having the IP, IF they let the work on OS4 continue (which i doubt very much as it is in direct competition with MorphOs).
I'm not sure - someone will correct me if I'm wrong - but MorphOs comes 'free' with their hardware.
(Thinking back on the MorphOs GPL? Thread)
Now many are waiting to get the A1 in order to use OS4 - which won't run on the Genesis hw (another point of contention for some).
It seems to me the smart thing in such a scenario would be to allow OS4 to continue being developed by Hyperion to support the users who wish to use it.
Seeing how they would be the only vendor supplying the needed hardware - they don't really lose any sales, they gain them.
But eh.. there will be folks who simply wont buy it on principle -- personally I'm going to wait a loooooong time before commiting myself to anything.
Siggy.
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nup,
there would be less competition - less choice
the things i like about pegasos and morphos comming into the market
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nup,
there would be less competition - less choice
Both AOS4 and MorphOS could be made to run on Apple, IBM, and the multitude of other PPC solutions if the developers wanted/had the time/financial inclination to do it.
More competition for hardware, more choice.
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Hopefully when Amiga Inc go bust the developers on both platforms will make the OS run on each others machine, (ie OS4 on PEG and MOS on A1)
That would be great and make them more money.
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MDMA
WHY is it that if MorphOS is so great everyone associated with it feel the need to lie!!!!
and spew such bull.
There is no such thing as the AmigaOS dongle! That is one of the many MorphOS lies
The one reason and the ONLY reason there is no AmigaOS for Pegasos is because BB Does not want The
AmigaOS for the pegasos board. Or for the classic Amiga that is why they have attacked or threatened
anybody associated with the Amiga Inc.
You want AmigaOS for your Pegasos Ask Bill Buck for it. Hyperion would be glad to make AmigaOs
available for the Pegasos.
BTW if the Amigaone is SOO expensive because of the dongle why haven't yet to be able to buy a
Pegasos for less than I paid for my Amigaone 600 G3.
Why can't you Morph guys just state the facts Why do you have to make the same FALSE STATEMENTS OVER
AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!
Why do you feel the need to make Attacks against Amiga Inc. Eyetech,Hyperion.
Is it because the Pegasos and MorphOS are so fatally flawed. Because besides attacks you guys have
yet to say anything TRUTHFULLY POSITIVE about the Pegasos.Or anything about them really.
Bill Buck you still haven't answered my Email questions. I guess the real reason you wanted my phone
number so bad was so you could send the heavies after me!!
That would be a really bad move on your part. You can't sue someone for liable if they are telling
the truth.
Besides I don't scare easily and my lawyers are tops over anything you could even dream of assembling
for any price!
Don't look for me to answer anything posted as response to this post for I am leaving in ten minutes
for a trip down to my beach house on Pawlys Island and will be gone for the next ten day's or so.
No internet/computers/Video Games allowed at the beach house. Only Books and magazins are allowed
for me and my family.
Kurt.
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@Kurt
You want AmigaOS for your Pegasos Ask Bill Buck for it. Hyperion would be glad to make AmigaOs
available for the Pegasos.
If Amiga Inc go bust, then Hyperion can do whatever they want with AOS4. And quite rightfully too. In an ideal world I'd like to run AOS4 on the most expensive laptop apple make with all hardware supported. There is no way AInc would let Hyperion do this.
There is no such thing as the AmigaOS dongle
Why can't I run AOS4 on any hardware I want then? Because of AInc. These guys are costing everyone money, including Hyperion.
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:roflmao: :destroy:
We now return you to your regularly scheduled reality.
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Why is what I said funny Ray?
If Hyperion can only sell to people with one particular motherboard, then they are losing potential customers.
That is simple free-market economics.
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No mdma I don't think it's funny at all; I'm
with you 100%. It's common sense.
The "reality' here Hmetal is that OS4 on more
systems (like the Peg) means more money for
Hyperion...they're not stupid, even if they
don't like BB or whatever...this is business,
not daytime television.
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HMetal
If you are talking reality, the one thing that stop all the propaganda from both sides is to RELEASE OS4 Screenshots. Aincs intergrity would be alot less tarnished.
realize
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You can't sue someone for liable if they are telling
exactly
wich is why you should wake up and question things more... think if everything you said where true about Genesi and they where telling just 'lies' and 'not true' and 'slander' then why hasnt A.inc (in fine stead with microsoft backing them, blah blah blah) not sued Genesi into oblivion for telling lies, defaming them, etc etc etc ? maybe it's because their not lies but completely true statements and you cannot sue someone for telling the truth...
wake up man... practice what you preach... seriousely... think about it... dont get mad and knee jerk react about this... sit back and think about it for a little while... I'm not saying that Genesi is a great company or anything... I'm not trying to sway you... but have an open mind about it... sit back and think about it..
the above is just my opinon... maybe you're totally right... time will certinly tell and for now I'm inclined to believe Genesi...
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@mdma
Oops, sorry mate. It wasn't at you that my laughter was directed. It was at the topic title. :-)
Sorry for not being more specific.
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mdma wrote:
Both AOS4 and MorphOS could be made to run on Apple, IBM, and the multitude of other PPC solutions if the developers wanted/had the time/financial inclination to do it.
More competition for hardware, more choice.
"Multitude"??
Barbie is canned, last thing I heard. Terrasoft is canned, last thing I heard. IBM? Let's be serious, did you check the price tag?
Pegasos: They didn't want it last time we asked.
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Seehund, I think I asked you before how you would handle customer support. Did you ever answer to that?
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see you use this 'support' as a weapon against freedom of choice for a motherboard... Microsoft handles support how do they do it? Linux(all the various distros)??? BeOS? QNX??? BSD??? Apple had clones how did it do it????... they all somehow magically can do it...how come you cant? and as BBRV has said they plan to bring MorphOS to macs and they said MorphOS will run the Teron's w/o A1 changes made....
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The more people using the OS the better your bank balance is
That would highly depend on the effort required to bring the OS to a different hardware, and the amount of copies sold. x Million Apple users wouldn't mean x million additional sales. The question would be, how many Apple users would buy it? I'd venture to say very little. So the question is, how much would it cost in terms of development resources, and customer support (the often-neglected part) to bring AmigaOS to Apple hardware? These two factors need to be balanced against each other, and only if there is a plus coming out does this make sense.
Right now, I don't believe this.
Bill Gates is a very rich man because of this.
Sigh. Bill Gates didn't do it by himself. Windows relies on external developer works (mainly drivers, mainboard BIOSes etc). Doing an OS on a specific hardware is much easier if the company making the hardware also supports the product by providing the required drivers. You won't see Apple produce drivers for AmigaOS. So you have to do this all by yourself.
Another things I always keep saying (which is always ignored it seems) is customer support. We are talking about a commercial product, so everyone calling support will want to have exactly that - support. You can't just say "sorry, I don't know this hardware". Even if you narrow down the hardware by saying "does only run on x and y", you can be certain that someone with z will come along and complain that it doesn't work. What then? Saying "it's not supported" isn't going to make you friends.
For the same reason, we don't put "Amithlon" or "AmigaOSXL" on the "supported" stickers even of those games we release for 68k. We cannot support them, since we don't have enough knowledge about it. A certain person using a three-letter acronym involved in Amithlon always tried to convince me that there is no difference between Amithlon and a real Amiga, but that is simply not true (not spelling his name, I don't want to summon him :-) )
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Microsoft handles support how do they do it?
With a multi-millon dollar budget. Come on, this is ridiculous.
Linux(all the various distros)??? BeOS?
Linux? Support? Try getting a Matrox card to work on an ALI chipset mainboard with AGP. Where do you turn to when things don't work out? Where is the Linux support department?
BeOS? That company went bust, if you didn't notice it. Partly because they entagled themselves in an endless driver writing mess. Support? Yeah, sure.
Apple had clones how did it do it????
Again, with a multi-million dollar budget. And it's not like Apple is doing the hardware support all by themselves.
hey all somehow magically can do it...how come you cant?
Yeah, sure they magically work by money, or not at all.
as BBRV has said they plan to bring MorphOS to macs and they said MorphOS will run the Teron's w/o A1 changes made....
"Planing" is nice. I don't think it's done yet, though, or is it?
You completely twist the meaning of "support". I don't mean to actually get something to run on a hardware. I mean "customer support", like in "Parametric User calls support hotline" kind of support.
S: "This is Support, how may I help you"?
U: "Hi, I do have this apple computer, and my AmigaOS crashes".
S: "What kind of Apple computer do you have?"
U: "A Macintosh"
S: "I mean, what kind of Macintosh?"
U: "One of those strawberry colored things"
(competion left as an exercise to the reader)
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by JoannaK on 2003/5/2 16:29:56
Lately I have been having Windowse PC for work and Linux PC for network server.. and I still wanted something different for use as a personal system. I really can't expect my latest purchase (Pegasos) to replace either of them right now (perhaps ever?) but at least it'll gives me chance to have something with personality.
I agree that a fun system, MOS/OS4/AROS can be justified in spending money, if there is already a XP or *nix box already in the house. AROS even more so since it can run on existing hardware. ;)
Dammy
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Seehund, I think I asked you before how you would handle customer support. Did you ever answer to that?
I'm not Seehud (nor do I play him on tv) but wouldn't it be the same as other companies handle it?
When I worked in the Windows 98 support group, for example, you let the caller know what you do and don't support before troubleshooting begins. They'll then know what to expect out of support. You troubleshoot it as best you can so long as hardware is not the suspected culprit. If it is, send them to the hardware vendor regardless if the vendor supports that operating system or not.
I had people calling in using older laptops that the vendor only supported under Windows 95. Guess what? If they wanted support they HAD to reinstall Windows 95 first. If the hardware was deemed okay and they call back for software support, then you do what you can with them knowing fully well that the software may not run on that machine and that's just the way it is.
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Re: If Genesi owned the rights to Amiga IP
Then we might actually see a product released. :roll:
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Linux? Support?
red hat support network
suse customer care
many 'small' companies giving support for their distros via phone/web/etc ...supporting PPC/X86 and all boards that fall in there... thats more then MICROSOFT and their budgets are very small...
Try getting a Matrox card to work on an ALI chipset mainboard with AGP. Where do you turn to when things don't work out? Where is the Linux support department?
they kindly say 'that isnt supported' wich is why they release hardware support sheets so consumers dont make those mistakes... but since you mention it... why wont WindowsXP run on my 386? what is microsofts answer to that??? minimum system requirements.. and why wont XP support my Wildcat 2110 card? what is microsofts answer to that? 'not our problem"...
you arent expected to support 'ALL" or even 'MOST" you the company pick a set of hardware and use it and then tell users what to buy... its that simple..expanding from a set spec to support more and more...
You completely twist the meaning of "support". I don't mean to actually get something to run on a hardware. I mean "customer support", like in "Parametric User calls support hotline" kind of support.
no I dont think so... I think you've pretty much twisted the meaning of support... microsoft dosent even have a number to call for support .. their the biggest software vendor going... most people cant call red hat... you dont even need a number... it's about supporting more hardware and giving the users a free choice...
you could have hardware compatability lists... you have dealers following them creating systems useing the compatability lists ...and you let dealers handle the support to their clients... it wouldnt all fall back to little ol hyperion the way you're making it out... you could even still bundle it on a dealer to dealer basis so you can avoid support entirely...
dont sit and tell me a 500$ waffleone is better because of 'support' then a cheap generic PC... because tons of little companies and groups are getting their products out there supported only on X,Y,Z configurations and doing a good job... NewTek dosent support every PC they manage to get their apps out there, Pinnacle manages it, A|W manages to get maya out there , they all manage it... ALL of them... from the tiny little AROS wich offers a free product and supports plenty of systems to the free FreeBSD... they all do it ...money or not...saying 'support' is this massive mountain blocking our way to generic hardware just dosent hold water when everyone else is able to support their products free or proprietary.
that little example of what Apple customer care would have to put up with is bogus to... SuSE/Debian and tons of Linux distros are running on Mac's aswell as BeOS... and Apple hasnt even complained nor has anyone gone under because of the Mac... BeOS went under for differant reasons....
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@Kurt
Why do you feel the need to make Attacks against Amiga Inc. Eyetech,Hyperion.
Who have attacked Hypersion or Eyetech from MorphOS users? I know no-one, and that includes myself. What you said yourself, only proofs that Amiga Inc. have made even the involved companies look bad.
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@hooligan:
Who have attacked Hypersion or Eyetech from MorphOS users? I know no-one, and that includes myself. What you said yourself, only proofs that Amiga Inc. have made even the involved companies look bad.
This is a big statement you are making there. Just dig up some of the discussions here and on ANN. The mud throwing between the two parties has been so big that i somehow feel that you forgot reality there for a moment. And yes, i mean between morphos and hyperion/eyetech.
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> Pathetic attempt at what?
AInc bashing.
You assume that Genesi would do it differently. But that's not the case, because MOS is also only available for the Pegasos and the old machines. That's why your comment, IMHO, was just AInc bashing.
Ok, here's *my* personal view, and that's got nothing to do with Amiga or Hyperion or Eyetech: I don't really like the dongle either. I see, however, the necessity to protect against piracy.
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If Genesi owned the classis AmigaOS IP?
One possibility might be to turn everything over to the AROS folks (they have stayed motivated and working independently for years!) or another, just release everything to OpenSource. :-o
For the moment that would seem the best course as far as we are concerned, but that is PURE SPECULATION at this point as we do not own the IP. ;-)
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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> Why can't I run AOS4 on any hardware I want then? Because of AInc.
No, not really. Rather because every hardware platform adds another amount of cost to the project. With a tight budget, this is nothing to be trifled with.
And what would we gain ? The only viable alternative for OS4 would IMHO be the Pegasos. Apple users are far too concerned about Apple to care for AmigaOS. Of all Pegasos users, I would estimate that a lot of them are not even interested in AmigaOS.
Ok, what other PPC hardware ? The few $ 5000 IBM pop boards ? Yeah, sure, that would be a market of, say, 10 to 20 people worldwide. Anything else ?
Sure, I don't have a clue about marketing. But at least I think I still have some common sense (even though Seehund will probably say I haven't an I'm doing "true Amiga Thinking").
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> RELEASE OS4 Screenshots.
Yeah, did that, and have been accused of faking them.
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> Microsoft handles support how do they do it
ROTFL.
Microsoft spends 250 million dollars for X-Box advertisement alone.
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@Z5
This is a big statement you are making there. Just dig up some of the discussions here and on ANN. The mud throwing between the two parties has been so big that i somehow feel that you forgot reality there for a moment. And yes, i mean between morphos and hyperion/eyetech.
---------------------
Are you sure they are all MorphOS "fans" (if somebody wants to call them so :) ?
I stand behind what I said: No-one I know comes to my mind now who has been spreading mud about Eyetech and Hyperion.
Critisized maybe, not mudded. And there is nothing wrong in critisizing.
Don't mix those anonymous cowards at ann.lu as MOS users.
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@EntilZha
Yeah, did that, and have been accused of faking them.
Whatever you do, you will always be accused of something by someone... That is the amiga community. This is nothing you should care about.
However, while i appreciate that Hyperion is a small company with limited resources, isn't there anything possible to keep us positive while waiting? I've believed in the project all along but IT is difficult sometimes to stay positive when no info is released and the small info that is released, seems to be for those who have paid for it (for which i don't blame Hyperion).
I'll ask in a different way. Do you, as a company, find it important what people think about your product. Isn't there some small things you could do to create a bit of prerelease 'hype' (big word here ;-) ). Some claim that OS4 is far away, some say it is very close. So it is kind of hard to know exactly what is going on. Wouldn't somebody expect some activity starting to appear concerning marketing IF it is close away?
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@Hooligan:
Are you sure they are all MorphOS "fans" (if somebody wants to call them so :)
Oh yes, i'm sure. And that really is the part that i never understood about MorphOs / Pegasos users. You should all be the happiest people because you have the platform you wanted in your hands, you can use it, there should be a lot of activity going on in forums, there is always the pleasure of new and better MorphOs versions (1.3 allready), new programs coming out, the Pegasos 2 coming...
So why bother about AmigaInc, OS4 or anything like that? Why spend so much negative energy towards nothing that should interest you anymore (speaking in terms of users that aren't interested in OS4).
THAT is the thing that always puzzled me... For Genesi, it's obvious why, because they want the Amiga name, but for the users...
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@Rogue
"Multitude"??
I meant Apple Clones, Motorola Machines, BeBoxes, RS/6000's things like that.
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@EntilZha
You assume that Genesi would do it differently. But that's not the case, because MOS is also only available for the Pegasos and the old machines. That's why your comment, IMHO, was just AInc bashing.
Correct, it was AInc bashing, but in no way was it Hyperion bashing. I have nothing but respect for you guys and want to see you succeed, but IMHO (and others too) AInc are holding you back.
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Apple users are far too concerned about Apple to care for AmigaOS.
Many Amigans would buy an Apple just to run AOS4 on it, including myself. I'drather own a nice Powerbook than an A1.
-
One possibility might be to turn everything over to the AROS folks
:-D That would be nice!
Would that be possible though, wouldn't stuff like the TripOS code have to be removed etc... Or has it already?
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Thanks for your response Thomas and Thanks Hyperion for voicing their opinion here (and to BBRV)
As far as being accused of releasing "fake" screenshots do you really care what a small minority thought? The problem is that NOONE outside of the developers and beta testers of OS4 has seen the whole thing working..
My question to you Hyperion is DO YOU HAVE OS 4 NOW RUNNING ON CYBERSTORM? Is it fully integrated? Estimate how long before public release please. Screenshots would help - whether people say they are "fake" or not. There is people who think that LANDING ON THE MOON WAS FAKE did that stop NASA from their releasing public data? Please guys, we need an update from you. A small page on the "Club Amiga" magazine from Ben is not a good sign of a close release of OS4.
There are many AMigans out there that have been burnt by Amiga companies left and right ,yet they still believe. I have friends who purchased Amiga 1 xe boards for $800 WITHOUT THE OS even working on the boards. Thats blind faith. Now, with all the exposure of Ainc's real situation things look really bleak for them. I recommended to them not to buy the A1 until the software is ready. I have a Cyberstorm 4000T i'm keeping becuase I want to run OS4 on it. I now have a Pegasos and I have to tell you guys its fantastic!
Hyperion, please you guys are good people and hard workers. The AMiga community has alot of faith and respect for you. WE need REAL ANSWERS AS TO THE STATUS OF OS4.
Thank you.
realize
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then I wouldnt buy an "amiga" :-D
I want OS4 either its nameless or called HYPEos4
With the amount of details being handled and
layed into OS4, its going to run circles around
every existing os out there :)
And i like the comment by one of the Friedens,
a direct meteor hit is the only thing stopping
it..:-D :-D
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>My question to you Hyperion is DO YOU HAVE OS 4 >NOW RUNNING ON CYBERSTORM?
yes, its been mentioned a few times in threads
but no announcement have been made yet..(i think?)
Maybe Hyperion should release a video of it booting, and just give a #### if people think its
fake or not, it shouldnt be that much work,
a video of a few secs should be easy to produce..
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If that happened, I might not feel so shamed anymore calling my A1200 "Amiga" :-)
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@Z5
>Oh yes, i'm sure. And that really is the part that i never understood about MorphOs / Pegasos users. You should all be the happiest people because you have the platform you wanted in your hands, you can use it, there should be a lot of activity going on in forums, there is always the pleasure of new and better MorphOs versions (1.3 allready), new programs coming out, the Pegasos 2 coming...
-----------------------
I am happy, but I want to be happier. My "work" as beta tester has just begun and I want MOS to be my kind of OS. If I can help to make it true or even help it towards this, by reporting bugs, suggesting features or code something, I will do it. Will do the same thing for OS4, allthough I doubt my word is not going to be very seriously taken by Hyperion :-)
But for a long time I can say I am actually having fun with the computer. It's not just a tool anymore. Reminds me of days when I got my first A500 and used it a long time, then a 21mb harddrive, supraturbo, action replay and so on.
---------------------------
>So why bother about AmigaInc, OS4 or anything like that? Why spend so much negative energy towards nothing that should interest you anymore (speaking in terms of users that aren't interested in OS4).
------------------------
1) I am part of Amiga community, like it or not.
2) Forums would be very boring if everybody would just think the same about everything
3) I like to argue ;-)
And I doubt there is a person NOT interested in OS4. Hands up :-)
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With the amount of details being handled and
layed into OS4, its going to run circles around
every existing os out there :)
Nothing personal, but I always loved the ppl like you "to know it for sure " and take it as "given" and "granted", despite you haven't even seen it or know about it, and consider it's competing OS half baked and unusable, even when most of you haven't seen it. As for me I'd like to see OS4 first before making any judgements.
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Pegasos: They didn't want it last time we asked.
So what if Genesi don't want it? Don't you want to sell more copies? I'm sure Genesi wouldn't mind more board sales either.
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@hooligan:
1) I am part of Amiga community, like it or not.
Actually, i wasn't referring to you at all. ;-)
2) Forums would be very boring if everybody would just think the same about everything
Agreed, but i don't find them that interesting at the moment either.
And I doubt there is a person NOT interested in OS4
That certainly is not the impression i get from a lot of MorphOs users.
Anyway, i'm kind of in between. I really do believe in OS4 but maybe i will buy MorphOs / Pegasos when it is in a more finished state.
I wonder if the two platforms can live together...
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frustrating isnt it ? :-D
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bbrv wrote:
If Genesi owned the classis AmigaOS IP?
One possibility might be to turn everything over to the AROS folks (they have stayed motivated and working independently for years!) or another, just release everything to OpenSource. :-o
To be honest, and I'm sure I speak for every member of the AROS Team, we'd not want those sources. We've accomplished pretty much anything that we had to do. Perhaps the sources would have been useful 4 years ago, now they are not anymore. Besides, I'd not like my "mind" to be tainted by the original sources: AROS was meant to be a reimplementation, not a copy.
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Long post follows. I'm on a sucky pay-per-minute modem right now and try to reply to "everything" in one go, offline.
Rogue wrote:
Seehund, I think I asked you before how you would handle customer support. Did you ever answer to that?
Yes, and now mips_proc did it again. :)
mips_proc wrote:
red hat support network
suse customer care
Add to those every single commercially sold Linux distro, from every single commercial distributor no matter how small. And there aren't that many "big" distributors around.
they kindly say 'that isnt supported' wich is why they release hardware support sheets so consumers dont make those mistakes...
you arent expected to support 'ALL" or even 'MOST" you the company pick a set of hardware and use it and then tell users what to buy... its that simple..expanding from a set spec to support more and more...
you could have hardware compatability lists... you have dealers following them creating systems useing the compatability lists ...and you let dealers handle the support to their clients... it wouldnt all fall back to little ol hyperion the way you're making it out... you could even still bundle it on a dealer to dealer basis so you can avoid support entirely...
Exactly. I'm in favour of the optional availability of licensed/bundled systems, for which the licensed dealer would be obliged to provide support.
The exact same system (as we see today: Teron PX) doesn't magically change technical characteristics and user support needs when it's sold by a licensed dealer (as we see today: "AmigaOne XE").
The cost of support will always be payed by the customer, regardless of whether he buys the OS bundled with a piece of hardware (then the licensed dealer grabs his share for support costs) or he buys the OS separately for installation on the exact same hardware bought elsewhere (then the cost of support is included in the OS price).
EntilZha wrote:
I don't really like the dongle either. I see, however, the necessity to protect against piracy.
Agreed on both points. However, I don't see why you put a "however" there. ;)
Even if the Dealer Dongle would stop piracy, the price payed for this would be silly.
Which alternative is the preferred scenario: 1000 payed for copies sold bundled with newly sold licensed hardware and 0 (heh) pirated copies. Or 10,000 payed for copies running on hardware regardless of hardware dealer, plus 50,000 pirated copies floating around?
From a mile away I can see someone picking apart what I wrote now and shout "those who want to buy AmigaOS want to steal it, Seehund condones piracy" or whatever. But no. Please read it again. I condone a bigger potential hardware and user base through increased OS sales.
The Dealer Dongle will not stop piracy. Not any better than a dongle delivered with separate copies of the OS or any other anti-piracy method. OTOH, the latter alternative doesn't actively exclude a larger potential market, like the first one does.
Anyway, the facts that we'll see AmigaOS 4 sold separately for Amigas (CS-PPC), and that Hermans said that other prospective licensees would be free to choose e.g. an external USB dongle have already rendered the "anti-piracy" argument worthless. As if that wasn't apparent before, IMO.
BTW, I presume that those Teron boards that Eyetech already has delivered came without dongle code? If so, will those customers have to send their mobos back to Eyetech or whoever to have them dongelized when AmigaOS is available? Will they download a new firmware revision with the dongle code attached to reflash their mobos themselves? Or will they be offered a "special" (well, normal, really) version of AmigaOS that's not limited to run only on hardware from select dealers?
What a mess.
And what would we gain ? The only viable alternative for OS4 would IMHO be the Pegasos. Apple users are far too concerned about Apple to care for AmigaOS. Of all Pegasos users, I would estimate that a lot of them are not even interested in AmigaOS.
The currently available userbase, commercial availability, second hand market etc. of any one given piece of hardware is an essential factor. Since you brought the subject up, I wonder how large the existing userbase of dongled Teron boards sold by Eyetech is, compared to e.g. a given model of the PowerBook G4 series? Pick the least sold model if you wish. How about compared to one, just one, model of the PowerMac G4? How many units and users are there out there, for each piece of hardware respectively?
I don't believe for a second that the only people, or even the majority of people that are prepared to pay for AmigaOS are those that can be expected to buy a "new" (as in newly manufactured/sold) motherboard together with the OS from an artificially restricted dealership, and that everybody else can be dismissed as not enough customers to bother with.
As for a Pegasos (I) port, judging by the hardware a port should be trivial to make. New drivers for the differing southbridge, firewire? And if the bundling/dongling/licensing requirement was removed, somebody else could write those (and even provide support for this "Amegasos enabler package", should Hyperion find the task too daunting).
Rogue wrote:
Barbie is canned, last thing I heard.
Well, they canned the design based on the Articia S at least.
Terrasoft is canned, last thing I heard.
Well, after one week's "extensive in-house testing" of the Teron PX, they decided that "it is not, at this point in time,
prudent to carry the Teron mainboards nor offer Teron-based Boxer systems."
For our Teron needs, this currently leaves Mai themselves, Inguard and Eyetech (AFAIK anyway, there might be more). Anyone is free to order a batch of Terons to sell, like Eyetech/Inguard, but as things are this can't benefit AmigaOS users by increased competition on an open (as in regardless of what OS the users choose) market.
Pegasos: They didn't want it last time we asked.
Therein lies part of the problem: you (or rather AInc) can't expect and depend on hardware manufacturers/vendors to "want" AmigaOS. For that strategy to work, AInc needs to wait until Bill Gates starts trembling when he sees AmigaOS's marketshare (i.e. it's not realistic, for many years to come at least...). Currently, all that getting a license could do for a dealer is to use the "Amiga" trademark when selling a dongled perversion of his hardware. It's not all that attractive as it could've been 10 years ago. An "Amiga hardware" market for third party hardware is a very silly idea, IMO.
To get slightly more back to what the subject line says, I don't know if Genesi would have AmigaOS ported to more platforms / another platform from different dealers. If Genesi's main focus is to sell Pegasoses, they're a bit like Apple (unlike AInc), i.e. it's not really in their interest to have people buying other hardware.
But... If they can make their hardware more competitive to e.g. Macs... If the best work made on AmigaOS and MorphOS respectively could be merged into one OS... If the main focus would be to sell Amiga/MorphOS instead of hardware... Or both... Or if...
A whole lotta ifs.
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by bbrv on 2003/5/3 11:16:56
If Genesi owned the classis AmigaOS IP?
One possibility might be to turn everything over to the AROS folks (they have stayed motivated and working independently for years!) or another, just release everything to OpenSource.
For the moment that would seem the best course as far as we are concerned, but that is PURE SPECULATION at this point as we do not own the IP.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
Why dont you OpenSource MOS.
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Alkemyst wrote:
Why dont you OpenSource MOS.
Maybe because they care about THEIR work ?
Maybe they just wouldn't have any use for the duplicate modules
if the owned the Amiga-IP (and with that atleast OS3.1) ?
-
... the amiga community wouldn't be divided anymore ? I'm tired of those wars and seing those duplicate efforts...
Anyway, Genesi NEEDS pegasos sales to be able to fund MorphOS, to pay the developers, to go ahead. BBRV always said said : the pegasos is the centre of their business.
Hyperion doesn't have hardware, so they need to sell their OS on as many hw as possible.
So making OS4 available for Pegasos would be good for everyone.
Also AFAIK, MOS does run with no modification on A1's with the openfirmware.
Finally, please Hyperion guys don't take offense each time we attack Amiga Inc ;)
BBRV is maybe a bit short tempered but did MUCH for the platform and Genesi brings products; how can anyone trust them less than A Inc ?! Incredible !
-
No one is insulting Hyperion unless Hyperion means Amiga Inc in another language :lol:
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Hi Mahen, thanks for visiting the offices in Paris last week and thanks for the support here. :-)
Thanks to you too Kronos. :-)
Hi EntilZha, we hope when a few things have changed we can work with you and your brother. It has been a long time since we had our discussions in Cologne in December 2001. ;-)
Hi Seehund, maybe we will ask you to do the port! Interested? ;-)
Hi Cato. :-o
Hi Hooligan, check your email for DemoScene Draft announcement. :-D
Hi falemagn, it was just an idea. ;-)
Hi Alkemyst, try to understand that the competitive advantage we have is three things in ONE package: MorphOS, Pegasos, Applications. The flexiblilty to respond independently and quickly to market opportunity will be our key to success. We have absolutely nothing against OS4. That is the ONLY truly valuable technical asset left in the discussion. Trademarks are another discussion, but we are not really that interested in those either. We hope you will finally understand that. :-?
Best regards,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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Trademarks are another discussion, but we are not really that interested in those either. We hope you will finally understand that.
An end to the flamewar in sight? Hopefully.
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Well, reading all the threads so far it appears that no one seems to hold anything against Hyperion and Eyetech. That's good! :-)
So best solution seems to me that the *new* management cuts the IP to AmigaOS 4 loose and let Hyperion use the name Amiga International to market OS 4. ( if anything is true from the last couple of days)
As to the proof of OS 4; it's Hyperion guys! These people deliver.
I allways compare software development with building a house. A simple small program or driver or service or whatever takes the same amount of men and time as building a normal house.
An operating system is like building a skyscraper( possibly the twin towers). And if your foundation is not right then.........
And I mean software development here. I don't mean hacking something together because that is fast and it bytes you in the back at some point.
I did my master thesis at Ericsson creating a demo of a mouse by implementing HID for Bluetooth for Windows( service and driver) and embedded.
If I see how much time is spent on just a very small thing...... They spent years developing their Bluetooth stack software and that's just Bluetooth( and there are many profiles that still need to be implemented). Also take a look at how long it took Microsoft to include Bluetooth in WinXP and how many profiles they actually did implement( not many).
So programming doesn't go fast if you want to do it right! A programmer that tells you otherwise is an idiot.
It takes time and even a demo takes time. They only get one shot and they need to do it right( like Rogue allready said).
If you consider how long they are working on it, you can't really expect them to give you a good demo. Or you're not a programmer and are talking bullocks.
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If you consider how long they are working on it, you can't really expect them to give you a good demo. Or you're not a programmer and are talking bullocks.
I think what a lot of the non-coders assume, is that because Hyperion are working from an existing working codebase that it will be easy/quick to give a demo etc, but as we all know most of the OS has to be re-written from scratch so it doesn't require the custom chips, and remove any 68k code. This means the MorphOS guys have had a few years head start on Hyperion.
AInc are useless, the ultimate outsourcing outfit gone wrong IMHO
Hyperion are hardworking and talented
Genesi/MorphOS are talented, hardworking and have a product shipping that works.
Eyetech ditto.
It would be best for all involved if AInc disappeared for good. The price of an A1 would come down as Eyetech wouldn't have to pay AInc any licence fee, Hyperion get to own AOS4 completely, and we may see it on more than one hardware platform.
Again, this is just my OPINION.
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@bbrv
Right, this is not strictly on-topic but topic subjects don't seem to bother anyone else so here goes...
1. Why don't Genesi get the "Amiga Certified" licence so they can run OS4 on the Pegasos?
2. Where can I find information on the Q-Box which I understand is the heart of MorphOS?
Thanks,
AmiMonkey
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1. Why don't Genesi get the "Amiga Certified" licence so they can run OS4 on the Pegasos?
Why should a hardware company pay a third party (AInc) to be able to run another software companies (Hyperion) OS on their own hardware? You don't see MS paying Compaq so they can run Windows on a Proliant or whatever.
2. Where can I find information on the Q-Box which I understand is the heart of MorphOS?
I'd like to know about this too, I presume it's possible to write stuff for Quark directly instead of the AmigaOS clone-API's?
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@mdma
>>Why should a hardware company pay a third party (AInc) to be able to run another software companies (Hyperion) OS on their own hardware? You don't see MS paying Compaq so they can run Windows on a Proliant or whatever.
But Compaq don't own the Windows IP. Whether Hyperion have developed it or not, they are still using Amiga Incs property (the source code). Besides, we're talking about a market of a few thousand here (if that), not billions. Why should Amiga Inc let Genesi profit from OS4 for free when Eyetech presumably had to obtain a licence? And would Genesi provide support for OS4 on Pegasos or would A. Inc have to?
All i'm saying is that if OS4 is that important to Bill Buck/the MorphOS users - why not buy the bloody licence and put an end to it? Whether you agree with the licence issue or not it exists and its staying.
AmiMonkey
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But Compaq don't own the Windows IP.
Genesi doesn't own the AmigaOS IP. Bad example.
Whether you agree with the licence issue or not it exists and its staying.
Hopefully not if AInc go bust.
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>>Genesi doesn't own the AmigaOS IP. Bad example.
Okay, but comparing Compaq and Microsoft to Genesi and Amiga is like comparing apples to oranges!
Compaq = Hardware, Microsoft = Software.
Hardware+Software = Computer.
Compaq and Microsoft aren't in the same market and aren't competitors. Genesi and Amiga are.
AmiMonkey
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So best solution seems to me that the *new* management cuts the IP to AmigaOS 4 loose and let Hyperion use the name Amiga International to market OS 4. ( if anything is true from the last couple of days)
I wonder if Hyperion would really apperciate to take on the
entire marketing / distribition and most importantlly,
indefinate development of AOS4 if it came to be. Skilled
as they might be, it's not their focus as a company in the
long term, as I understand it. They are game programmers
at heart (at least having heard comments from the
Friedens) and having the continued, sole responsibility for
the future of AmigaOS would be quite a change in business
profile for Hyperion as a company. I'm not saying they
couldn't do it, only that it's probably not the development
they'd prefer (my guess).
.
SlimJim
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Compaq and Microsoft aren't in the same market and aren't competitors. Genesi and Amiga are.
Genesi's competition in the hardware market is Eyetech/MAI
Genesi's competition in OS market is Hyperion
In exactly what market do AInc compete against Genesi?
AInc sell PDA games written by other companies, and that is all they do.
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All i'm saying is that if OS4 is that important to Bill Buck/the MorphOS users - why not buy the bloody licence and put an end to it?
Look, from what I understand, OS4 is not important to Bill Buck, or Genesi or the MorphOS users at all. The "Amiga" brand name is the one in importance here.
Genesi, already has the technology available to them (hardware + nexgen native ppc os + amiga combatibility).
They would only want AmigaOS 4 so they could legaly stick a nice "Amiga" sticker infront of their product so the xyz ex-amigan who does not know what a Pegasos is, to recognise it as one! And there are milions of ex-amigans out there.
Now if Genesi play their game right (and they do so far) they won't need to pay AInc for that (and accept their terms). They use us (the community) to pass the word out, the Amiga shows globaly, the forums, whatever...
I have no doubt they will succeed their goals.
In the end the best product will prevail (like the original Amiga did) and not the name/brand. It might be harder at the start though.
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mdma wrote:
Genesi's competition in the hardware market is Eyetech/MAI
Genesi's competition in OS market is Hyperion
In exactly what market do AInc compete against Genesi?
AInc sell PDA games written by other companies, and that is all they do.
Well, whatever. But the simple question was "Why not buy a licence?". Whether Genesi believe they should have to buy a licence or not doesn't come into it. If they want OS4 to run on a Pegasos, then they have to buy a licence.
AmiMonkey
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@SlimJim
That indeed might be for the main programmers of Hyperion themselves but there are 30 people working on it!
I was just thinking outloud.
I also read that the Friedens at some point want to start programming an own game instead of porting.
I do know that the game porting of them is going to get AmigaOS 4 a great new API.
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>They use us (the community) to pass the word >out, the Amiga shows globaly, the forums, >whatever...
if thats the case, I guess the exposure he gains
is pretty small....i've been watching both here
and amigaworld.net quite frequently, users actually browsing the sites are rarely over 50 users.. Where the hell is the rest of this
community ?
>The "Amiga" brand name is the one in importance >here.
With the latest activity around here, I've figured that out myself too :) Im sure Pegasos sales would have been 3x higher if "The Name" would follow the Pegasos/Morphos package.
We clearly see "The Name" in action with the sucsess the AmigaOne have in Europe at this time,
Eyetech can't ship many enough and fast enough it seems.
Some days ago I've been talked with some developers of a musicprogram(tracker++) for pc and mac,
one of the developers is getting an A1 when OS4 is out :) and a os4 port wasnt a longshot either
all because of "The Name".
so yes, I would say whoever have "The Name" stays in business.
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Its a pretty valid question.
Genesi says it want to support and help the Amiga and it's community.The community is currently split between Gensi products and Amiga Inc\hyperion\eyetech products.
Division in the Amiga comunity at this point is detrimental to the future of the Amiga.
Genesi has the ability to get its Morphos machine lisenced as an "official amiga"This would help greatly in removing this divide and hence help ensure the future of the amiga.It would also give us the users bigger and better choice in which way we wanted to go.
So Genesi states it wants to help and support Amiga and its comunity, and getting thier machine liscened would help achieve that, then why don't they do it?
They could still provide thier morphos only machine, and give the users us the best of both worlds by having a machine that will run os4 and morphos from Genesi.
The question remains.
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Where the hell is the rest of this community.
Aaaaahh.....that's simple!
A) They don't get involved....only read and wait for official news;
B) They don't come here nor at AmigaWorld nor on ANN. They don't go to forums. This is the major amount of (potential)users of the new AmigaOne and OS 4.
I recently met a guy who stays in touch with what happens with Amiga via the German Amiga plus magazine. He doesn't know any of this is going on and depending on the outcome, he maybe never will.
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Do you REALLY think Genesi could just get an licence from Bill&fleecy ?
/me writes out invitations to reality ;-)
And even if, do you really think that Genesi would want to comply
with the other requirements, like opening their books to AInc ?
Sofar Genesi has done ALL that could be reasonably demanded
for a port of OS4:
The HW is there.
Lot's of OSes run on it, and some of them even open-source.
They use a well-documented standard for the FirmWare.
They use well known and documented (atleast for Hyperion) chips
on there HW.
The missing bits could be looked up in the kernels of said
open-source OSes.
If Hyperion/AInc think that they can't/don't want to port OS4
to the HW, than thats their choice, and they are the ones to blame
for it. If they think that it wouldn't bring in enough cash for
them to justify the efford, or if they think they need to
"protect" another HW-vendor, than it is again their descision.
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by catohagen on 2003/5/3 20:50:48
>They use us (the community) to pass the word >out, the Amiga shows globaly, the forums, >whatever...
if thats the case, I guess the exposure he gains
is pretty small....i've been watching both here
and amigaworld.net quite frequently, users actually browsing the sites are rarely over 50 users.. Where the hell is the rest of this
community ?
>The "Amiga" brand name is the one in importance >here.
With the latest activity around here, I've figured that out myself too :) Im sure Pegasos sales would have been 3x higher if "The Name" would follow the Pegasos/Morphos package.
We clearly see "The Name" in action with the sucsess the AmigaOne have in Europe at this time,
Eyetech can't ship many enough and fast enough it seems.
Some days ago I've been talked with some developers of a musicprogram(tracker++) for pc and mac,
one of the developers is getting an A1 when OS4 is out :) and a os4 port wasnt a longshot either
all because of "The Name".
so yes, I would say whoever have "The Name" stays in business.
I remember when pegasos/mos users were saying that brand name does not matter.
Its clear now that it does matter as it always did.
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@Kronos
You seem to know the conditions of the OS4 licensing. Can you give a general overview here so I can understand why Genesi wouldn't want to obtain a licence?! Thanks.
AmiMonkey
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@amimonkey
I only know those parts that appeared in one of those famous
executive-updates posted on Amiga.com. And the one about the
licence (most have been April 02) did indeed state that
insight into company-papers had to be given to AInc.
Thats enough to shy away everyone except those who allready
were "in bed" with AInc.
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double holds longer ;-)
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SlimJim wrote:
So best solution seems to me that the *new* management cuts the IP to AmigaOS 4 loose and let Hyperion use the name Amiga International to market OS 4. ( if anything is true from the last couple of days)
I wonder if Hyperion would really apperciate to take on the
entire marketing / distribition and most importantlly,
indefinate development of AOS4 if it came to be. .....
I'm not saying they couldn't do it, only that it's probably not the development they'd prefer (my guess).
.
SlimJim
Agree on both (they can do AmigaOS and it's not likely their main target in long run).
Unfortunately, unless Hyperion finds some other willing company to take care of AmigaOS future, they are now stuck to it cause it has become highly likely that current Amiga Inc can't make ends meet and get things running in a way new OS requires.
So, either Hyperion keeps developing Amiga OS onward or it once again gets abandoned. And quite frankly I do belive they will have a lot to do even after first version of OS4 has been released to CSPPC, Aone and others (BPPC and perhaps Shark?). There will be a lot work on fixes, upgrades, drivers for new hardware etc..
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I remember when pegasos/mos users were saying that brand name does not matter.
Its clear now that it does matter as it always did.
"Ahh...the Amiga. Such fond memories I have for that trademark. That sunken logo on the Amiga 500 casework. The metal nameplate on the Amiga 2000. The precision font craftsmanship on the manual. Never has there been a finer name in print"
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I personally, didn't and will not, ever, attack Hyperion.
I did attack Amiga Inc MANY times and I will continue
till the truth is totally out.
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2. Where can I find information on the Q-Box which I understand is the heart of MorphOS?
I'd like to know about this too, I presume it's possible to write stuff for Quark directly instead of the AmigaOS clone-API's?
Read this:
morphos in detail (http://www.blachford.info/morphos/morphos_in_detail.html)
It explains the current situation with Quark and Q-Box.
PLEASE NOTE: This shall be moving to a proper home soon so don't bookmark it.
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You don't realize that we came fro the Amiga grounds.
Most of us are angry with Amiga Inc, some were ####ed
by them.
I'm still interested in OS4 and Hyperion, but I want everyone
to know THE TRUTH about Amiga Inc.
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but I want everyone to know THE TRUTH about Amiga Inc.
The truth is out, the bastards have been exposed, it is only a certain site which is still trying to hide the truth and even still continues with that nonsense ASK LIAR FLEECY Q&A.
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ASK LIAR FLEECY Q&A.
Well, his name says it all really.
For the benefit of none Brits, to "Fleece" someone is to obtain something (usually money) by deception/dishonest methods.
Nuff said really.............
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Read this:
morphos in detail
It explains the current situation with Quark and Q-Box.
PLEASE NOTE: This shall be moving to a proper home soon so don't bookmark it.
Thanks, no documented API's yet then? I think it would be cool to implement a B-Box (as well as the A-Box and Q-Box), with the BeOS API's in MorphOS similar to the B.E.OS effort on the Linux kernel. Maybe even a C-Box in the future (Carbon/Cocoa ) :-D
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So there's NO q-box yet?! How is Morphos at release 1.0 then...?
When's the q-box going to be working then because it was my main interest in MorphOS?
AmiMonkey
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If Genesi owned the Amiga IP, for me that wouldnt change a thing. I've been wanting to get re-inquanted with AmigaOS for many years now, and like the rest of you, i've been waiting for that new elusive Amiga. Im not talking about hardware, im talking about AmigaOS. And im not talking about the name, im talking about the code base that OS3.1 and all those before it gave us. So, the operating system which Hyperion is developing (no matter what name it has) is the OS for me, and im guessing for many folks...
BTW - from what i see above, this doesnt mean genesi would own the Amiga IPs, just means that they'll be able to use some of them right? Not including the AmigaOS ones. So while pegasos may be an Amiga, you cant say it runs AmigaOS (morphos).
Anyway, for present and past users who know a little bit about the situation, the name is meaningless!!!
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Hi, most of these discussions are academic, but as we have mentioned in another thread you can make your own comparison starting...
At Tain l'Hermitage: HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/a_expo/a_24.jpg) and here (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/a_expo/a_19.jpg)...
At WOASE: HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/shenfield/b/woa_bf.jpg) and here (http://www.theboyz.freeserve.co.uk/images/EyeTech.jpg)...
In Aachen: HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/aachen/aa_13.jpg) and here (http://jockel.themac.de/Retro/Seiten/Bild7.html)...
...and in Sweden (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/amigbg/3CEE6.jpg) (twice) and Italy (http://web.infinito.it/utenti/n/nexusdev/images/pa2002/5.jpg) too. :-)
But, we did not see "them" HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/ces/9.jpg) at CES 2003 in Las Vegas or HERE (http://en.genesi-support.com/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=10&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=0&offset=0&imageId=171) at CeBIT 2003 in Hannover. We did not even see them HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/pologne/po_g.jpg) in Poland or HERE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/espagne/a/gf_k.jpg) in Spain or even HERE (http://batman.jypoly.fi/%7Esaku/yhdistys/tapahtumat/vuosi2002/kuvat/web10.jpg) in Finland !!! :-o Maybe, we will see them HERE (http://www.cebit.com.au) this week -- who knows?! :-?
Anyway, we are really happy to be coming to AmiWest. It's a peice of CAKE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/ces/7.jpg) for us, because we are planning to have FUN (http://en.genesi-support.com/tiki-browse_image.php?galleryId=7&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=19&offset=0&imageId=133)! And, by the way, if you don't like that then you can try one of THESE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/aachen/aa_1.jpg) and even better one of THESE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/shenfield/c/woa_ce.jpg) !!! But, most of all we hope you come to AmiWest so you can try ONE OF THESE (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/equinoxe/AllSetUp.jpg), just like THEY DID (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/equinoxe/KidsStuff.jpg) :-) !!!
Anyway, we are headed THERE (http://www.morphzone.org/amiwest/), so come join the TEAM (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/aachen/aa_2.jpg), if you see what we mean and just stop by (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/expoprotec/ep_i.jpg) to say "Hi!" to give it a TRY (http://thendipo.alias.domicile.fr/img_show/pologne/po_i.jpg) !!!
Yeehaw! We are headed WEST! AmiWest that is!!! Maybe there you will better understand what we would do...;-)
Signed, the WHOLE GENESI (http://www.genesi.lu) TEAM!!! :-D
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Bill, i know you mean well, but is it necessary to repeat your messages in every thread ?
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catohagen : Bill, i know you mean well, but is it necessary to repeat your messages in every thread ?
LOL - Like a hundred others don't repeat basically the same things over and over (and over, yet) - and for many more than two posts! ; }
Anyway, it was a good post! : }
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Well Cato that is sort of our job...;-)
We posted this quote from Jack Welsh the old CEO of General Electric yesterday. He was speaking about Clausewitz: "Strategy was not a lengthy action plan. It was the evolution of a central idea through continually changing circumstances."
We are just trying to get the central idea across (through continually changing circumstances); that is, there is a future in the Pegasos and MorphOS. We are on the march! (so to speak ;-) )
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill :-)
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Hi Bill, could you answer my previous questions in this thread?
1. Why do you not want to get an AOS4 licence and put an end to this no AOS4 on Pegasos nonsense?
2. When is the Q-Box to be completed and what version of Morphos will include it?
And a new one:
3. When will the Trance JIT emulation for MorphOS be ready?
Thanks,
Ian :-D
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amimonkey wrote:
.. ..end to this no AOS4 on morphos nonsense?
Well that IS nonsense ..... :-D
Or maybe ....
Do a port of MOL to MOS, and than run OS4 in it ?
Not that that would make any sense, but wouldn't it still be cool ?
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Heheh yeah - sorry about that! :-)
Post corrected! :-D
Ian
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Hi Ian, before it might have made since. Now it does not. We do not need OS4 or any of the trademarks. We have our own "brand" now. We want to promote this and this is our #1 focus. For your information, the last serious conversation (if you can call it that) we had with Bill McEwen was in June 2001. Bill wanted $20/unit license fee and a $100,000 up front payment, plus a dongle and we had to do all the work! We said forget it and the rest is history. We spoke briefly to Fleecy again face to face in London in April 2002. At this point we understood the effort to combine the efforts was totally futile. We decided to eliminate any cross-pollenation whatsoever. We did.
In the meanwhile, we legally purchased a few hundred copies of OS 3.9 which if we wanted to we could bundle with the Pegasos -- just to put an Amiga label on the package. Alternatively, we could have made a deal with Cloanto...this would have done the job too. In the end, we decided against both approaches.
When OS4 is done we can analyse the situation then, but our inclination is that we do not have the time to do this. Hyperion can do it if they want to. They will need an installed base of users to sell their product. The Pegasos "Community" could be a potential market for them.
For us, OS4 is no different than any flavor of Linux, BeOS or BSD. To tell you the truth, NewOS is the most interesting of all of them. Anyway, we will support Hyperion when they are ready. The people that made what they are using now are part of Genesi, so eventually it would not surprise us if everyone is happy and gets along someday...
As to the other questions...the Q-Box is a long term development (years), but that will not stop someone from partitioning their hard drive and running multiple operating systems. There are options already. Some JIT works now and the Pegasos will do more things as time goes on. Any good OS is "alive." There is never a final product -- just evolution and hopefully improvement.
Hope that answers your question.
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
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Thanks Bill. I'm glad at least one company can give a straightforward, honest answer.
So what is the current status of the Q-Box? Does it actually exist?
Thanks,
Ian
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we legally purchased a few hundred copies of OS 3.9 which if we wanted to we could bundle with the Pegasos -- just to put an Amiga label on the package.
Thers a way of buying OS3.9 illegaly ? Anyway, I dont understand how bundling OS3.9 with your package makes
it an "amiga" ?
They will need an installed base of users to sell their product. The Pegasos "Community" could be a potential market for them.
I thought the owners of AmigaOne _is_ their target for OS4, together with all the CSPPC and BPPC users.
Rumours around is that A1 at this point outsells pegasos
3x, i think that the Pegasos "Community" is a minority
compared to that.
The people that made what they are using now are part of Genesi
The people making OS3.x and some of the enhancements
of OS3.5 and 3.9 are part of Genesi ? I thought they are
working on OS4 ? (mostly thinking of Amidock, FFS2, roadshow, deficons,++)
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catohagen wrote:
Rumours around is that A1 at this point outsells pegasos 3x
And you believe THAT rumour ? Take a good look around, and if
you still think Eyetech has sold (including those just
ordered) more than 500 boards, it would seem that you are
in need of some reality-pills ....
This may change when OS4 finally runs on the A1, but that is still
sofar away that we aren't even allowed to speculate how far
away it is :-o :-P
The people that made what they are using now are part of Genesi
The people making OS3.x and some of the enhancements
of OS3.5 and 3.9 are part of Genesi ? I thought they are
working on OS4 ? (mostly thinking of Amidock, FFS2, roadshow, deficons,++)
and someohow I doubt that Bill was thinking about SW .....
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>And you believe THAT rumour ?
well, with all the rumours around, i thought
this rumour sounded most sane :-D
>and someohow I doubt that Bill was thinking about SW .....
oh, ofcource....i forgot about the hardware :-D
sorry about that..
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>Rumours around is that A1 at this point outsells
>pegasos 3x
Really? Facts tell me, that ComputerCity have sold
more Pegasos than they have AmigaOne preorders.
PS: Michael Boehmer of E3B must be very very rich
if A1 sells so good ;)
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cato: it must depend on the places... Here in France, I know about 15/20 pegasos users, and 1 person who ordered and just received his A1.
Maybe it's different in other countries. In the USA probably ?
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I'm not saying that I know that there's a lot of
A1's out there but the activity on the A1-mailingslists
is getting really high and if it will continue like the last
two weeks then my e-mail account will be flooded in
the next two weeks.
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Well this does answer my question bbrv.
We have our own "brand" now. We want to promote this and this is our #1 focus.
The Genesi product is not an Amiga...it is a seperate product with a seperat OS that just happens to share some capabilities of the Amiga.
Bill wanted $20/unit license fee and a $100,000 up front payment, plus a dongle and we had to do all the work! We said forget it and the rest is history.
This does not seem excessive, the user ends up paying for it in the end anyway and if the consumer wanted a Genesi branded amiga I am sure they would pay for it.
When OS4 is done we can analyse the situation then, but our inclination is that we do not have the time to do this. Hyperion can do it if they want to. They will need an installed base of users to sell their product. The Pegasos "Community" could be a potential market for them.
This I don't think I get completely.Why would hyperion enter the hardware market?Or are you saying they might alter the OS4 software for use without a dongle?
Are you also saying that you may change your stance on this issue in the future?
One last question I have is: Why dont you promote your product as heavily on the Mac\linux user forums as you do in the Amiga forums?They have alot more users and one would think from this that they would have many more prospective customers to offer than Amiga.
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>One last question I have is: Why dont you promote
>your product as heavily on the Mac\linux user
>forums as you do in the Amiga forums? They have
>alot more users and one would think from this that
>they would have many more prospective
>customers to offer than Amiga.
You might have noticed that Genesi was also
represented at several other non-Amiga fairs (from
small ones like BeGeistert (two times already) up to
the bigger ones like CES and CeBIT. Next non-Amiga
fair will be CeBIT Australia next weekend.
And yes, Genesi is also active in other forums, for
example at golem.de, osnews.com or slashdot.org.
There is also discussion about Pegasos in PPC
Linux forums (search google).
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I recently read something about an attempt to port
AROS to the pegasos. Is there any chance that we
will see AROS on the A1? (a question that probably
millions (?) have asked before)
And another similar question: Is there any chance of
seeing Morphos on the A1? I read that Genesis were
depending on the sales of the pegasos in order to be
able to develop Morphos and in that perspective I
understand that they might not be so keen on porting
Morphos to other hardware. But hey! I believe that
there's quite alot of people who would be willing to
pay a descent amount of money for a port of
Morphos, atleast I would. But I guess it's not just
a question of meny is it? Which is a shame because
I'm really intressted in both AOS and Morphos and
I can't afford two HW-setups (which ofcourse also
is a shame :-D )
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The Genesi product is not an Amiga...it is a seperate product with a seperat OS that just happens to share some capabilities of the Amiga.
After Commodore died and took Amiga Tech with it, nothing new is an Amiga, even if you slap a boing ball sticker on the front of a PC or PPC. So there's no point in arguing semantics with this one - A1/OS4 is as far away from the original Amiga as Pegasos/MOS is, and that's a fact.
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a question of meny? :-o :-D :-P
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@stix
I would like to see that too.I would like Genesi to have an AmigOne product.
@kennyr
Does not matter if you like it or not, AmigaOne is an Amiga. Just because it has changed hardware does not make it less so.It has the trademarks the IP and the copyrights, and\or the lisences required.
Using your reasoning a Mac is no longer a Mac, it is nothing like the classic Mac's.
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Is there any chance that we
will see AROS on the A1?
If you send me an A1 board I'll port it for you! :-D
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@mdma
Well, if I had lots of them I definitly would send
you one :-D , in other words: if I were Eyetech
(although it doesn't seem like they have LOTS
of them :-) I would, and a couple of them would
go to Genesis aswell,
Being generous is quite easy :-D ,
but then, business is not my cup of tea :-D
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It may be at the end of the day, but we will answer any questions here now or later tomorrow.
:-)
R&B
P.S. Check it out! (http://www.gfxbase.com/reviews/pegasos.shtml)
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1. Why don't Genesi get the "Amiga Certified" licence so they can run OS4 on the Pegasos?
Much likely becouse Pegasos is sold out. Bigger question would be about Pegasos 2.
And about the license terms, do they state, that "certified machine must be sold with copy of AmigaOS4" ?
Well, as all Pegasos boards are already sold out...
Of course, it might be possible to make "Pegasos AmigaOS4 enablers" (that were sold with a copy of AmigaOS4, when ready)
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P.S. Check it out!
Nice review.
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Hi,
mahen wrote:
cato: it must depend on the places... Here in France, I know about 15/20 pegasos users, and 1 person who ordered and just received his A1.
Maybe it's different in other countries. In the USA probably ?
Just a few words to say that I know more than 7 persons who own an A1 in France and this number grows every day :)
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Hi,
sTix wrote:
I'm not saying that I know that there's a lot of
A1's out there but the activity on the A1-mailingslists
is getting really high and if it will continue like the last
two weeks then my e-mail account will be flooded in
the next two weeks.
Yes I can confirm it. For example, this week-end (the last four days), I received more than 100 msg by day :)
A1 is here and it is real...
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The finnish Amiga users club members have about fifteen Pegasos's, and one AmigaOne I am aware of. I am not 100% sure about that one AmigaOne owner even :)
-
This does not seem excessive, the user ends up paying for it in the end anyway and if the consumer wanted a Genesi branded amiga I am sure they would pay for it.
In a marketplace where software that sells a 1,000 units is considered making a killing, a $100,000 up front license cost is quite excessive. That plus a $20 per unit license and the cost of AOS 4 itself?
If Amiga Inc. had any sort of weight to throw behind AOS, it might be different.. But I don't see any signs they're doing anything other than expecting people to come to them.
Considering the presence Genesi has had at the various shows, it would be of benefit to both Amiga Inc AND Hyperion to cut them some slack with regards to the licensing. Genesi could set up a few machines showing AOS and without doing jack all give their product greater visability. (The only comapny that wouldn't benefit from this would be Eyetech.. Genesi has no need to show off another companies hardware.)
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"The Genesi product is not an Amiga...it is a seperate product with a seperat OS that just happens to share some capabilities of the Amiga."
So, your saying it's like a Draco....
BTW, Anyone have one of those?
-
Yeah, Wasn't Commodore planning on moving the platform to RISC?
-
Yeah, Wasn't Commodore planning on moving the platform to RISC
HP-PA/RISC otherwise known these days as Intel Itanium.
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>Just a few words to say that I know more than 7
>persons who own an A1 in France and this number
>grows every day :)
Hm then they will reach the number of French
Genesi full time employees working on
MorphOS "soon" ;)
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bbrv wrote:
Hi Seehund, maybe we will ask you to do the port! Interested? ;-)
Heh, sure, just wait a decade or two until I've at least learned to code my way out of a wet paper bag. Unless writing hardware drivers only entails hacking up some arexx or bash scripts, I think you'd be better off looking for talent in that specific area elsewhere... ;)
Bill wanted $20/unit license fee and a $100,000 up front payment, plus a dongle and we had to do all the work!
This surely must be some mistake. I don't think I'm alone in distinctly remembering being told repeatedly that in the "Amiga licensed hardware" case, a licence would be "free" (As In Beer, gratis), and that any doubts about the existence of such a rather unique arrangement for a commercial licence were, well, the usual: "FUD". ;)
Might it be that the "free" bit only was valid for the former "hardware partner", which had been made redundant by failure to deliver ("A1 1200/4000") and technological and strategic evolution (third party hardware instead of new Amigas)? The "hardware partner" that was "consulted" (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/041202-mcewen-cache.html) when it came to setting "guidelines" and "standards" (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/reply021203.html) required for a licence.
Ooooh, now I can even better see all those prospective licensees stumbling over their feet in order to get first in line to call their hardware "Amiga" and sell someone else's little OS bundled with a dongled version of their hardware... A true mastermind plan to get AmigaOS back on the commercial arena. :P
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@Seehund
You are confusing 2 things here.
The pices Bill mentioned were what he was told back in 01
when bPlan planned to sell MOS without Ambient.
He also said that he hasn't spoken the other Bill eversince.
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...actually the last time we spoke to Bill was November 2002.
That ought to tell you something!!!
:-)
OK, now forget it and get on with the rest of your life...
Have a good night,
Raquel and Bill