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Author Topic: Where are the decent scifi series?  (Read 3016 times)

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Offline cecilia

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 14, 2004, 04:45:53 PM »
Quote

zudobug wrote:
You'd think with all the money they pour in to television, combined with the latest amazing technology, TV would absolutely rock! But no... it's {bleep}!
money has nothing to do with it.
the difficulty is this: the people who have alot (or all) the money have absolutly NO idea how to write or create a good story. they just know how to get alot of money.

the people who can write great stories and act well, and light/make effects/etc have no money.

the artists that succeed are the ones who either are good at business themselves (Hitchcock) or hook up with a clever businessman who is smart enough to let the artist do his/her thing.

the poor artists just hope for the best and expect the worse. and believe me, it's not easy finding businesspeople who know how to deal with artists. managing people is a skill that is lacking in most situations. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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Offline zudobug

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2004, 07:04:07 PM »
cecilia,

I totally agree. That's gotta be what is happening. Because I know commercial channels make a lot of money through advertising, and the Beeb is rolling in licence payers money.

It reminds me of an Armando Ianucci sketch with three TV producers singing "we are good at telly" and dancing after coming up with a totally lame idea for a new reality show.

We'll never have a half-decent sci-fi series so long as people continue watching bad TV and supporting the parasites in the industry.

-zudo
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2004, 07:55:59 PM »
it's one of the reasons why Public Tv, indie movies, and other art driven groups exist. people have been trying to figure out how to get interesting projects done, because the juggernaut that is hollywood doesn't care.

and there's no point in "blaming" the public. people don't actually want to see garbage. it's more about lazyness. the conglomerates make it easy to digest the cr.ap. go to theater, pay money, see film.

if you want quality or different stuff, you have to go looking for it.

when I first saw the AMiga I was hoping this would help break the stranglehold that the big producers have. it may. I do know that alot of small companies in LA - and other places around the world would not exist if it wasn't for the "revolution" in computers/software.

In fact, a friend of mine just made his own film - all digital. he did most of it himself. shot it, directed it, did most of the editing and color correction, etc. He had me do all the special effects (he's smart enough to know what he can't do! sure sign of a smart person).
  :-P

at the moment he's trying to get this film into film festivals. I haven't heard much from him and I wish him luck, because doing something like this is an uphill effort.

But, if people don't do their own thing, nothing unique or interesting will ever get done.

this issue is quite old, btw. even a hundred years ago many of the most famous actors of the day got together and created United Artists. It was originally a group for artists trying to make great films.
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Offline Tomas

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2004, 01:05:11 AM »
I personally liked farscape, but the last season was not very good... TNG is my favorite though.
 

Offline odin

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2004, 01:12:17 AM »
I, for one, can't wait for Star Wreck to get finished :-).

Offline Dan

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2004, 01:31:32 AM »
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whabang wrote:
I haven't seen decent Sci-fi on TV since the three first seasons of Babylon 5 was aired on Swedish TV a few years ago.  The only Sci-fi we have here today is Star Trek Enterprise (which i have never liked) and Cleopatra 2525(don't even get me started on that one:roll:).

Have you missed Andromeda? TV4 is doing reruns. I like it but then I´m not looking anything serious when I watch tv.
Startreks(i have only seen voyager and enterprise) appeal to me has always been comedy.

Maybe I should look into Babylon5, i like jms comics.
Yes he is writing comics now :-D Spiderman and Supreme Power.
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Offline whabang

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2004, 07:47:52 AM »
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Have you missed Andromeda? TV4 is doing reruns.

GAAAH! The horror! :-o
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Offline zudobug

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2004, 02:31:58 PM »
Ah, Captain Dylan 'Hercules' Hunt. Or as I like to call him, The Big 'C'.

I couldn't get into Andromeda. My former housemate watched it so I'd sometimes sit down and try it out, but it seems like another one of those "if we put some beautiful half-naked women in, maybe no-one will notice how much this sucks" kinda shows.

Some nice ideas, but every episode I saw started off with them going into some sort of epic war thats been building up for centuries, only to have it all sorted out and finished by end of the same episode. "Onwards to our next massive battle! or maybe a planet full of half-naked beautiful women... depending how the mood takes us."


[edit] LOL. I take it all back. I just remembered my favourite quote from the show which I have forged in my memory (sorry if it's a bit wrong.) Dunno which ep exactly this is from.

Beka: "where did you get all the candles?"
Tyr: "I rendered them from the fat of my enemies."

:lol:

Good line!

-zudo
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Offline Cymric

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2004, 03:37:08 PM »
Quote
cecilia wrote:
it's one of the reasons why Public Tv, indie movies, and other art driven groups exist. people have been trying to figure out how to get interesting projects done, because the juggernaut that is hollywood doesn't care.

and there's no point in "blaming" the public. people don't actually want to see garbage. it's more about lazyness. the conglomerates make it easy to digest the cr.ap. go to theater, pay money, see film.

if you want quality or different stuff, you have to go looking for it.

I'm not sure I agree with this all the way. I think it is the other way around. My girlfriend and I had a little discussion about theater admission fares after seeing the visually spectacular but storywise extremely weak Van Helsing. She remarked people want to be entertained after a stressful day---and entertainment rules out engaging your brain in difficult stories and Deep Thought About Life's Truths. I think she has a point. Hollywood cares a lot about this and knows the difference like no other. (They make billions of dollars out of it, don't they?)

It's not Hollywood that's the problem, it's the people. They are lazy and uncaring, and if what they as a whole want what a genuine artist can only consider to be crap, then so be it: crap is what they'll get. Think the romantic love novellas you buy at the supermarket checkout versus soul-wrenching poetry. Think the umpteenth FPS versus textual adventures, the latter perhaps in a multi-user setting. Humans are dumb animals with rather basic needs and desires, and there's no changing that (for now).

I agree with you that if you want quality, you need to go out and look for it. But the few times I did that my stomach did somersaults at the complete nonsense I was presented. Think Kubrick movies, or from that famous Japanese director whose name slipped my mind (Koba-something?). Each time I've come to the conclusion they make crap (and bad crap at that) just like everybody else. Only now it's 'artistic' crap, and different crap yardsticks are invoked to disguise the fact that the Masters may have gotten it dead wrong.

So when I was willing to engage higher brain functions, I found the intellectual challenge to be sorely lacking. It has strengthened my opinion that my girlfriend was right. For now there seems to be a nomansland between Hollywood crap and artistic 'quality' people find hard to explore.
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2004, 05:03:40 PM »
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But the few times I did that my stomach did somersaults at the complete nonsense I was presented. Think Kubrick movies, or from that famous Japanese director whose name slipped my mind (Koba-something?). Each time I've come to the conclusion they make crap (and bad crap at that) just like everybody else. Only now it's 'artistic' crap, and different crap yardsticks are invoked to disguise the fact that the Masters may have gotten it dead wrong.
if you can't understand and appreciate Kubrick - and other's - than this is a problem with you. not Kubrick.

I GET him. he is So far above the sh.it that comes out of hollywood, he shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
-----------
to get back to the point of this thread, however, I have no problem with mindless entertainment. I enjoy childish nonsense all the time. it's important for one's mental health to get out of one's problems.

my issue with the giant corporations is that they don't encourage variety. they can't SEE talent and nurture it. yes, I'm looking at the problem from the other end (than you, the consumer), but i think it's useful to see that point of view.
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2004, 05:23:30 PM »
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if you can't understand and appreciate Kubrick - and other's - than this is a problem with you. not Kubrick.

I GET him. he is So far above the sh.it that comes out of hollywood, he shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

Hear hear.  Kubrick has made some quality films.

 

Offline cecilia

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2004, 06:39:04 PM »
Troy : How Hollywood Kills Stories

By

Cathy Lynn Pagano


a really interesting view on this film (which I didn't see) and what is going on in the middle east.
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Offline Cymric

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2004, 10:32:22 PM »
First the author tries to convince us that Homer's entire saga was written to illustrate the follies of war. Perhaps. I would rather say that it was written to illustrate the irrationality of man and utter humanity of the Greek gods: they started the war because of a petty argument over beauty. If you end the story where the original Iliad ends, she might have had a point. If you include Troy's capture, it highlights man's shrewdness. If you then tell what happened to Agamemnon (who was murdered by his wife on suspicion of adultery with a captive war slave) you can think that it is a great tragedy to die like that. If you include Ulysses' epic story, it becomes a tribute to steadfastness and an unyielding resolve never to give up despite very grim odds.

Then she complains that the movie does not convey the same meaning as the story would in ancient times---unfortunately, that is inevitable. Times have changed. We simply do not believe in the Greek gods any longer, for example. We do not know how it felt to have a historical enemy as the Trojans (and later on, the Persians). We are no longer a society in which war plays an important part. In addition, the argument falls flat on its face when she tries to involve The Passion of the Christ: that story would have conveyed a completely different meaning in the first century, namely of freedom from Roman oppression for the Jewish people. So why should the Iliad be rendered true? (She also has some really weird ideas about the Iliad and Odyssee forming the cornerstone of Greek identity, thus Greek democracy, and thus our modern society. I think she is overestimating their influence considerably.)

And then the most perverse, most revolting argument in the entire essay is unleashed: since Troy was the product of Hollywood, its original meaning was perverted as per usual. Thus a golden opportunity to start a national debate on the 'follies of war' was missed, and thus to learn from historical mistakes, and thus to critically evaluate the Bush administration's handling of the entire post-9/11 situation. This includes the Iraq invasion. In fact, this argument was the sole reason she wrote the essay. Would she have included The Passion's original meaning to this debate, I wonder. Yes, you definitely need to be a 'Jungian psychotherapist' in order to come up with such a chain of cause and effect. You really don't need to ride on the crest of a Hollywood movie wave to start national debates.

I am a little curious why you pointed us to that article, though. Everyone knows that movies (especially Hollywood ones) very rarely follow the book or historical facts to the letter. So...?
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Offline cecilia

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2004, 11:14:10 PM »
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I am a little curious why you pointed us to that article, though. Everyone knows that movies (especially Hollywood ones) very rarely follow the book or historical facts to the letter. So...?
THAT IS the reason I posted this link.
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2004, 11:25:24 PM »
I think the movie's also particularly prudish considering the sources they used :lol:
plus there ain't much gods in it, from what I heard about it, and saw in the previews of it, while it was the primary aspect of the Ilios.
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Offline Cymric

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Re: Where are the decent scifi series?
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2004, 12:51:27 AM »
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cecilia wrote:
THAT IS the reason I posted this link.

You could have a point---but since Hollywood doesn't advertise that its movies are accurate retellings, it is a weak one. Instead, movies are 'based on actual events'. Or 'the story comes to life on a screen near you'. There are a few more. You have to admit that the marketeer who thought those up was a genius at his profession.

If you want accuracy, you should seek out a different form of movie: a documentary :-). (And sometimes not even that, but the cold, hard facts written down in the scientific literature.)
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