Completely off topic...but is Windows XP dead?

[som99]

I use nLite to strip Windows XP so ir requires minimal HDD space and a low amount of ram.

I have a Thin Client with a low power mobile AMD 1GHz CPU (not fast) and 128MB ram and 1GB ATA flash storage.

Shrinked Windows XP keeping functionality down to 200MB HDD install and 50MB ram usage and it flied quick on the Thin Client.

Later I added put 1GB ram in the machine and 10x 2TB hdds with USB adapters and now I am using the thin client as a Torrent seedbox, works perfectly and does not consume much power, perfect as a seedbox

If anyone want a quick Windows XP but do not want to use nLite check out "TinyXP", runs great and requires very little.

So for me WIndows XP works great for a lot of things, good compability for new software and a small footprint is a great combo for slower machines
You can shrink Windows 7 a lot also but it's more heavy overall and not needed on slower machines, Windows 7 did run like crap on a 766MHz Transmeta Crusoe CPU with 128MB ram and Rage XL graphics chip but WXP ran nice, W98 was to limited and Linux had drivers issues.

Well yeah I like buying Thin Clients and use them as standalone PC's

[som99]

The only thing about old versions of Windows is that Microsoft makes you activate them online.

This sucks if you are just installing it on a computer without an internet connection, or if there comes a day when Microsoft just won't support the old version AT ALL.

That's why I like 98 - you don't need to go online to activate it.

I wish there was some way to disable this online activation in XP for owners of legit copies who want to continue to use it long after support and registration servers are dropped.

I know there are probably cracked .iso images online but who wants to install a cracked version of Windows XP that is probably full of hidden malware?  I prefer to use a clean, OEM installation disc.

Well nothing stops you from creating your own pre-activated Windows ISO, it's easier then you think, also who gets cracked Windows ISO's from open trackers? There are non malware containing scene releases if you know where to look.

Edit: Also if memory serves me right pre SP ISO's of Windows XP pro requires no activation and you can install offline SP's later if you need them.
I am quite sure I got a few legit Windows XP CD's that do NOT require anything more then the CD-key under installation.

Also Windows FLP requires no activation and is less demanding then the normal Windows XP.

Edit: Hmm thinking of it I do not think I own any version of Windows XP professional that requires online activation at all, just skip the end steps with checking for connection and Windows Update and set them yourself and no version I have used had required me to activate online.

Tell me if you need a clean Windows XP professional ISO without activation requirement and ill make an ISO from my oldest Windows XP CD's without SP.

Edit: I am downloading the "Windows XP Service Pack 3 - ISO-9660 CD Image File" from Microsoft's Download center to check if it needs activation when installed.

[som99]

I detested windows 8 however it's slowly growing on me. And I spend more time on the "classic" desktop so I don't deal with metro very much. Thats not to say I outright like it now. I am still not impressed with metro and certain things, like having to go to hot coners to alter settings, still annoy me.

You know you can make your own hotkeys to open what you want without hassle? Could aid your W8 usage

For example, you might want a hotkey combination to open the classic control panel?
Well it's easy, right click on the control panel shortcut, select properties, in the "Shortcut" tab you have a field named "Shortcut key:" press either CTRL+Shift or CTRL+ALT and desired key, for example CTRL+ALT+C and press "OK".

Bam when you press CTRL+ALT+C the control panel opens.

You can do this to everything, web URL's, Administrator tools etc etc, nice and easy way to go to whatever you want no matter what Windows version you use, ive been doing this for ages for things like network settings, computer management etc

[som99]

If you buy a new computer, you won't have a choice.  Dell is forcing Windows 8 on everyone.

Go to your local software store and see what the oldest Windows software you can buy is.  Can you get new software for Windows 95?  The answer will probably be "no".  Pretty soon the stores will stop selling software for Windows XP and your answer will be "Windows XP is broken".

The other issue is length of life on hard drives.  They have surface mount components and they don't all last beyond 5 years.

What forces you to use W8 on DELL computers? I suspect you are talking about laptops since most enthusiast computer users put together their own desktops, but sure OEM laptops will move to newer OS but you can still format the drive and install whatever OS you want as long as there is drivers available (currently not much of an issue) also who buys OEM desktops?

Also due to the limits of the 32-bit kernel in Windows XP you have no real reason to buy a brand new laptop to use Windows XP on as long as there is working second hand ones.

What is the issue with hard drives? Are you talking about hard drives or solid state drives?
Since I got tons of more then 5 years old hard drives running 24/7 in my file server without issues, the biggest killer of hard drives is heat which is a problem for laptop users.

Running old software on newer OS is no issue, I use VMware to run DOS and Windows 3.11/95/98/2000/XP etc and run all legacy software I want without trouble, you can use whatever virtual box you want for that but VMware is Superior on many aspects and have DX9 support.

Besides software using later DirectX version (mostly games) than you can use on Windows XP much software will still run under Windows XP for quite some time, the gap between Windows 9x and NT based are mostly caused by the move to the NT based kernel of Windows XP so such dramatical compability issues will not be as apparent between XP and 8 before the leap to 64-bit software kicks in.

So I still do not see the issue, if you want to run unsupported legacy software you can, most things will run for quite some time on Windows XP still.

The biggest problem I can see is when new hardware do not get drivers for Windows XP but it wont be an issue since the Windows XP kernel is getting more and more outdated for new hardware anyways so XP wont be optimal anyways and if you want to keep using it you could run it trough virtual box or keep XP supported hardware.

Since there are already limited by the 32-bit version of Windows XP from both new CPU pov and the limited RAM capabilities including VRAM (not counting the broken 64-bit version of XP with very limited driver support) you will be forced to move to a new OS by time but only if you are in need of hardware not supported by XP.

So yes, Windows XP will die out due to new hardware and higher software requirements by time, but nothing stops you from running it on a VM or keeping XP supported hardware for a XP computer.

So bottom line, XP is a decent OS yes but getting to old, nothing stops you from using it for quite some time, if you are not limited by the 32-bit kernel keep using as long as you want.
But it will be outdated as time progress but I predict most software will keep running for quite some time on it.

Getting outdated, yes.
Dead, no since it depends on the user.

WOW, i wrote a lot of text here, hope it's understandable and not to much off-topic

Edit: Also as it looks now with possible release of Windows Blue this summer with cheaper more frequent upgrade releases it seems Windows won't get better and I hope to god Linux will rule the desktop market in 5-10 years time due to Microsofts new approach!

[som99]

I love windows 8 never felt windows 7 was anything other than a new vista.
However i used windows xp last summer on my old work laptop "car diagnostics" and mapping Standalone ECUs.
I kind of wished that XP was dead because 4 days with that crap and the unstability told me that windows have only improved over the years.

Anyways before i upgraded to windows 8 on that laptop i reinstalled a fresh version of XP and i am sure that win8 is faster on that computer. (panasonic TB CF-74).
Never looked back and never will..

On somewhat new hardware XP is outdated yes, but if you are using older more performance limited hardware XP is more fitting then 7/8 (also much old hardware do not get drivers for new OS versions anymore).

So there still is some need for XP. As I wrote a few posts back I would never run W7/8 on my torrent seedbox since the hardware is to weak.
For the big mainstream masses that only have new hardware the need for XP is gone.

I ordered a new SoC Asus C8HM70-I/HDMI with a dual core 1,1GHz Intel Celeron 847 today for my car, it will be fun to see how a 17w TDP computer handles the newer OS:es.

[som99]

As for Windows XP, there are various interesting games such as The Sims, The Sims 2, and The Sims 3, which can only be run under Windows, so this is the only good reason to use Windows at all. Check the system requirements to see if they require a Windows Version later than XP. I think that anything else can be done either on Aeros OS, or Linux. Someone is trying to develop an open source alternative to MS Windows, which they call ReactOS http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html .

There is loads of new games not possible to run under Linux, later DirectX based games do unfortunately not play nice with linux at all. OpenGL has a bright future tho and Steams move to Linux will speed things up so if we are lucky it will be a better future for gaming and Linux.

Also my wife plays the sims 3 on Linux, she has Linux mint installed and I got the sims 3 running for her under both the new Whine and PlayOnLinux but ofc there is performance loss. So I do not know why you think the sims do not run under Linux.

There are tho other reasons why I can't mainly only use Linux beside games, I have dual boot of both windows and Linux but as I have two AMD Radeon HD 7970 graphics cards and Linux works like crap on my main workstation due to those cards drivers are a mess under Linux right now.

Drivers are a big issue when using high end stuff under Linux and is one of the biggest obstacles for many people.

[som99]

I'm still running XP on both my daily-driver laptop and my gaming PC - never touched Vista, and 7 has too much needless screwing around with UI stuff, only some of which can be fixed with third-party patches. XP runs all my software and lets me use the interface I'm familiar with from over fifteen years of running Win95 derivatives instead of forcing me into the New Way of doing things; why would I upgrade?

What games do you play on your gaming pc?
What specs are your gaming pc?
Are you using 32 or 64 bits windows xp?

[som99]

32-bit XP, on a P4-2.8GHz (Prescott something-or-other) with 4GB DDR400 (just under 3GB recognized, but with all four it means I get dual-channel memory access) and a GeForce 7600 GT (8x AGP.) Aside from an attempt at Skyrim (the CPU and GPU aren't really up to it,) the newest thing I play on it is Oblivion. (I'm working on a heavily modded-up Morrowind install, though, I'm curious to see whether that will end up being more of a workout for the system...)

I'm looking at boosting it to a Core 2 board in the near future; I've already got a PCIe GeForce 8400 something-or-other to go with it.

Nice to see another Elder Scrolls player
For AGP I could recommend an ATI Radeon HD3650, ive got one old 478 AGP 8x PC (no HT) with and 3.0GHz P4 and that AGP card, youd be surprised how much the poor old lady can run with that GFX card
Ive seen 3650s for good prices, tho lately AGP cards have risen quite a bit :/

But since your going PCI-E youll be better off You could pick up an Radeon 4870 or nvidia 260GTX for a really good price (Ive payed around 25-30$ for each) and with any dual core socket 775 CPU and that card you can run nearly all the latest games in low settings at least (Tried an E6300 overclocked @ 2,2GHz with an 260 GTX and it run both Skyrim and Borderlands in mid settings) under Windows XP.

[som99]

I upgraded my 4 year old netbook from XP to 7 and now 8. I wouldn't put XP back on it. It's a 1.66mhz atom with 2gb of ram. I might drop to XP for something slower, but I might also put windows 2000 on it.

That's not such and old machine compared to when XP was relaeased, I would have stayed on XP but I would have blown it free from the bloatware the OEM installation comes with, the stuff the manufacturer puts on their machines slows down loads more then people might think.
I would have installed a shrinked version of XP to make it fast but that's because I would not have any need of windows 7 or 8 on such a machine.

My wife has an similar spec'd Acer aspire One, it still has XP but not the OEM it came with and I replaced the HDD with an SSD which did loads, works good for her as a machine for webbrowsing when we travel

[som99]

I will use my Windows XP Professional 32 bit for four more months before I upgrade to Windows 7. I am doing that because I am waiting to save up enough to upgrade my CPU, upgrade my RAM, get a good video card and an entirely new HD, and get Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. I need to save up and squeeze another 2 to 3 years of my already 5 year old hardware before buying an entire new system hardware. Yes my hardware is at least 5 years old...I tend to drain out my hardware and software until I have no choice.

The biggest reason why I am upgrading to Windows 7 is because I have no choice. Ones Microsoft kills Windows XP I do not want to be in a vunerable stage of attack and hack and viruses. I have to upgrade to Windows 7 to protect myself and that is the only reason I am upgrading. Otherwise I will stick with Windows XP for as long as I can. The reason for that is because I already have all my files I need, customized my desktop, worked hard to fill up my favorite in the browser, have downloaded all the programs I need to enjoy my computer, I have made it MINE. I have made my Windows XP and my computer really MINE and it is only THANKS to Microsoft I am forced to get kicked out of my home (metaphorically speaking) and out in the street and now I have to get a new home.

THIS IS NOT FUN!

Backing up, not fun!

Downloading programs again not FUN!

Recustomizing my computer not FUN!

This whole experience makes me feel like I cannot keep my computer for me. That I have to make sure that I should prepare for the next move and that is NOT FUN!!

One of the biggest reasons why I loved Mac and Ubuntu is that you ARE NOT FORCED TO MOVE...just update and update and even change the entire UI by updating but you KEEP YOUR STUFF WITHOUT MOVING. You keep your customization, your security, everything...NOT FORCED to move every four years, every three years every five years....the feeling you cannot really open all your boxes anymore. You have to keep boxes closed for the next house move and that annoys me

You know you can upgrade to Windows 7 and keep all your settings, files, favorites, program, background picture etc etc as it is right?
Pop in the Windows 7 DVD and pick upgrade instead of custom new installation, no files will dissapere and you will keep all but GUI as it was

Even if you need new hardware you can pop in the new hardware and keep your old harddrive with windows xp on, the upgrade will "repair" and add the new needed drivers and you will be safe.

About the backup part, I recommend everyone to make backup since you never know when your hard drive will bite the dust.
I myself have set up a server with 10x 2TB hard drives in mirror raid that backsup selected hard drives over the network once a month for me, it's set to backup my important drives from computers in the network, I highly recommend people to have some kind of backup system, all from CD/DVD's to flash storage or USB HDDS etc

If you got loads you want to keep backed up, an easier route then doing it like me with a server is using a NAS.

So don't worry you wont loose any files or programs and your settings will be saved

[som99]

Really? You mean it? Hmm...maybe I should follow your advice and do a complete back up first before attempting the upgrade method. IT WOULD BE SUPER sweet if that is all I need to do without full blown format!! Oh the joy behind that!!

Ill recommend you to use software to do an complete image of your drive so you keep your MBR etc, there are lots of free software but I usually use norton ghost

I wish you good luck, ask away when you are doing it if you need help, everything done right and you wont loose anything

[som99]

No, this is not the case.  You cannot "upgrade" from XP to 7.  You can upgrade from Vista to 7, but cannot go from 32-bit to 64-bit.  Also, I'd never recommend "upgrading" - you are much better starting clean.
 
There is a migration tool Microsoft has that backs up data & settings, which you then can use to restore after you do a clean install of Windows 7.  But, if you're reasonably computer literate you can certainly copy off all that data manually and restore it when done, rather than trusting their tool to get everything you need.

He is right, forgot about upgrading to 64-bit, not possible to upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit, but as he said you can use the migration tool since you do not want to upgrade to 32-bit W7 (need an iso of Vista first, upgrade without key then W7 upgrade works) :/

Mostly Morrowind, really. There's a lot I like about Oblivion - much better combat mechanics, f'rinstance, and technically gorgeous visuals - but it just really hasn't aged well. Too many elements dumbed-down, and some changes that were intended to make things better just made them worse. (Particularly the way the magic system replaces gradually lessened spell-failure chances with arbitrary "milestone" skill levels where you're allowed to cast better stuff, making all the skill levels in between feel pointless, and the leveled-difficulty system, which is clearly intended to keep you challenged but ends up making you feel increasingly frustrated as the difficulty rapidly outpaces your character development to the point where you have to pour like two dozen arrows into a single random bandit!) Plus, it just doesn't feel like as much of a world so much as just a generic fantasy playset, as compared to Morrowind's frankly alien landscape - partly because, like a lot of fantasy works, it looks pretty much like France, and partly because having fully-voiced dialogue means there's a lot less of it to flesh things out, because every line costs money :/

I'm told Skyrim is an improvement on most of those fronts, at least, but I never got out of the tutorial dungeon on account of my system's inability to handle it. Hopefully it'll have more of what I liked in Morrowind than Oblivion did...


Yeah...I don't mind AGP, really, but it's much harder to track down a Socket 775 board with AGP than it is to just go PCIe, and anyway I got the card on the cheap at the recycle center so it's no big deal. Just gotta get around to getting a board + CPU combo and then I can cannibalize the RAM and extra disk storage from my current Core 2 box (non-gaming, as it only has the one PCI slot! Stupid little micro-ATX boards...at least it was cheap.)

Well there are parts I like and not like with Skyrim, it's dumbed down but the world is beatifull! I like all the Elder Scrolls games in different ways, but Skyrim is the current one im playing

Good luck getting that 775 board, I see em getting tossed at nearest recycling center quite often, tho often OEM.
I wish you luck and hope you get a board and CPU, 775 CPU's have risen quite some in price if you look at the more high end ones, but the dual core E series are quite easy to get cheap!