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Author Topic: Anyone working on PFS3 ??  (Read 10084 times)

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Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 10:21:12 PM »
Quote from: Piru;644063
Tell me, how many >2TB hard disks have you partitioned with an amiga?


None... as the biggest drives I use are 1TB... :)

Now you tell me after you've given SFS Ver 1.279 a try on an Amiga that it has a 2TB limitation... ;)
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2011, 10:23:40 PM »
Quote from: amiga4ever;644018
So, where exactly can I download a nice precompiled and user-friendly release of this new open-source version?
Nowhere as of yet. For now you should use the PFS3 binary version uploaded to aminet.

If you really MUST have the latest goodies you need to build it by yourself. For 68k version you need SAS/C and the amiga NDK 3.x. You also need to install the multiuser.library SDK if you wish to build the multiuser version.

However I'd advice against using the development PFS3 version in a production environment. Things can be in a slight flux there.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 10:31:12 PM by Piru »
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2011, 10:28:50 PM »
Quote from: Franko;644067
Now you tell me after you've given SFS Ver 1.279 a try on an Amiga that it has a 2TB limitation... ;)
I don't need to test it. I know it's technically impossible to partition a >2TB drive reporting 512 byte block size (that's what current drives do due to compatibility reasons). These drives will report more than 2^32-1 sectors and you cannot fit such number into 32bit data type (used by both TD_GETGEOMETRY and RDB itself).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 10:45:02 PM by Piru »
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Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2011, 10:33:16 PM »
Quote from: Piru;644071
I don't need to test it. I know it's technically impossible to partition a >2TB drive reporting 512 byte block size (that's what current drives do due to compatibility reasons). These drives will report more than 4^32-1 sectors and you cannot fit such number into 32bit data type (used by both TD_GETGEOMETRY and RDB itself).


Wrong... yet again... no one said anything about using 512 byte block sizes... :)

Do us both a favour go read the docs and send you theories to the author of SFS, it works (don't ask me how, ask the author) it's as plain and simple as that... ;)
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2011, 10:50:41 PM »
Quote from: Franko;644073
Wrong... yet again... no one said anything about using 512 byte block sizes... :)
You cannot change the block size the drive uses internally. Logical block size used with filesystem is irrelevant here.

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Do us both a favour go read the docs
Any amount of reading the docs won't change the fact that it's impossible to RDB partition a >2TB drive reporting 512 byte block size. If the documentation claims otherwise it is in error. You do realize that the documentation might not be entirely accurate?

Quote
send you theories to the author of SFS
The real author of SFS is doing some other things these days. For some reason the project was hijacked by this strohmayer guy. Regardless, both would agree with my assessment. As will anyone who can understand simple math.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 10:56:13 PM by Piru »
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Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2011, 10:58:07 PM »
Quote from: Piru;644083
You cannot change the block size the drive uses internally. Logical block size used with filesystem is irrelevant here.


Any amount of reading the docs won't change the fact that it's impossible to RDB partition a >2TB drive reporting 512 byte block size.


The real author of SFS is doing some other things these days. For some reason the project was hijacked by this strohmayer guy. Regardless, both would agree with my assessment.


Piru dear chap... all I can say to you is YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG and unless you give it a try yourself then you can post all the technical mumbo jumbo you want, it still doesn't change the FACT IT WORKS... :)

So unless you decide to actually try it for yourself and then come back to me with proof that it doesn't work, then you can go on quoting all the figures you want till your blue in the face, at the end of the day you are quite simply wrong on this one and I will quite happily tell you so until you prove me wrong... :)
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2011, 11:02:13 PM »
Alright Franko. We want screen shots of videos of this proof! This I got to see! :)
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Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2011, 11:09:32 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;644087
Alright Franko. We want screen shots of videos of this proof! This I got to see! :)


Screen shots of what ??? video of what ???

PS: In case you hadn't noticed or conveniently missed it Piru is the one claiming this 2TB limit and it's up to him to prove his claim not me... :)

Course I have provided a link where anyone can download SFS so if your too lazy to download it, read the docs or even try for yourself then I sure as hell aint wasting my time proving something someone else said... :)
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2011, 11:11:16 PM »
Quote from: Franko;644086
you can post all the technical mumbo jumbo you want

It actually is quite relevant technical information that explains in simple terms why I am right. You can of course try to deny it all you want, but it still doesn't change the facts presented.

You on the other hand seem to base your claim on the dubious remarks in the documentation: "Supports large partitions.  The limit is about 2000 GB, but it can be more depending on the blocksize." and "With this new 'SFS\2' format it's possible to create ... partitions larger than 128 GB (the limit for 'SFS\2' partitions is 1 TB * blocksize / 512)."

What the author of that comment doesn't realize is that while the FS might in theory work with larger block size, there is no way to partition >2TB HDD by using RDB. In fact there isn't even a way to query the true capacity of such drive via TD_GETGEOMETRY.

Thus the maximum is in fact limited to 2TB, regardless of the logical block size you might use.
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2011, 11:14:24 PM »
Franko: I don't have a drive larger than 2Tb my self, hence the reason I need videos or pictures as proof. Besides, I could never get SFS to work in the first place.

Sorry, man. I have to mess with you, Piru is paying me good money for this! ;)
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Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2011, 11:18:33 PM »
Quote from: Piru;644090
It actually is quite relevant technical information that explains in simple terms why I am right. You can of course try to deny it all you want, but it still doesn't change the facts presented.

You on the other hand seem to base your claim on the dubious remarks in the documentation: "Supports large partitions.  The limit is about 2000 GB, but it can be more depending on the blocksize." and "With this new 'SFS\2' format it's possible to create ... partitions larger than 128 GB (the limit for 'SFS\2' partitions is 1 TB * blocksize / 512)."

What the author of that comment doesn't realize is that while the FS might in theory work with larger block size, there is no way to partition >2TB HDD by using RDB. In fact there isn't even a way to query the true capacity of such drive via TD_GETGEOMETRY.

Thus the maximum is in fact limited to 2TB, regardless of the logical block size you might use.

Ah so you finally bothered to read the docs... :)

A minute ago you were telling me you the author would agree with your assessment, now you've read his docs you are now telling what he says is dubious... :rolleyes:

Again I say to you and this is speaking from my own experience using this filesystem, you go ahead and try it on a >2TB HD and if it doesn't work then I'll happily admit I was wrong and then give the author a roasting for being a diddy, sound fair... :)
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2011, 11:18:44 PM »
Quote from: Franko;644089
prove
  • TD_GETGEOMETRY and RDB use 32bit unsigned value to store block numbers. The maximum block number they can represent is 2^32 -1 or 4294967295.
  • 3TB HDD uses block size of 512(*). The capacity reported is around 3 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000 * 1000 / 512 blocks or 5859375000.
  • The value 5859375000 is larger than 4294967295. Thus it cannot be represented with a 32bit unsigned integer data type. Ergo TD_GETMEOMETRY or RDB cannot properly report/handle such device.

(*) Internally these drives use 4KB block size, but due to compatibility reasons they report back 512 byte block size.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 11:36:35 PM by Piru »
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2011, 11:20:18 PM »
We need to get you guys drunk and put you in a ring together. This could be fun. Two nerds duking it out! Power Gloves allowed! ;)
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Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2011, 11:22:20 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;644092
Franko: I don't have a drive larger than 2Tb my self, hence the reason I need videos or pictures as proof. Besides, I could never get SFS to work in the first place.

Sorry, man. I have to mess with you, Piru is paying me good money for this! ;)


And as I said the largest HD's I've got are 1TB so not much point in making a video of that (course I could doctor the pictures to turn it into a 4TB drive if that'll make everyone happy)... :)

Piru paying out money... aye right... and I'm the Queen of England... :)
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Offline Piru

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2011, 11:25:23 PM »
Quote from: Franko;644097
A minute ago you were telling me you the author would agree with your assessment

He still will. Unless if he's stupid enough not to see the problem.

Quote
now you've read his docs you are now telling what he says is dubious...

The claim is misleading. The author doesn't realize or doesn't want to acknowledge that there are limits imposed from elsewhere.
Quote
you go ahead and try it on a >2TB HD and if it doesn't work then I'll happily admit I was wrong

I tell you again: There's no need to test it, it will fail at partitioning time.
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Anyone working on PFS3 ??
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 10, 2011, 11:28:34 PM »
Godamn Pancakes!
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Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 
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