ARM for the future?

[Iggy]

Only with few of the benefits.



Modern video editing has come a long, long way since the days of Newtec's Toaster. Everything these days is digital and in that arena I suspect AOS, even with all the improvements of MOS or AROS or OS4 would be put under severe pressure to cope with the sorts of demands that kind of software would make in today's environment.

Photo editing is probably more realistic, but then you're competing in an arena where Linux has some pretty mature and feature rich software to choose from.



As well as a significant chunk of it's capabilities due to it's being hampered by 80's era APIs and architecture. Appliances are supposed by nature of their requirements to be stable and unobtrusive in their function. Rigged up to the eyeballs with patches and kludges, AOS was never that.



But that Ubuntu install has out of the box more capabilities than you could get with AOS even with every patch and hack from Aminet installed and running smoothly (and good luck with that). It also has the supreme benefits of both being free (in all senses of the word) as well as well supported by vendors and coders.

There are probably more coders working just on the Linux kernel today then there were developers for Amiga software even at it's height to give you an idea of the scale of the mountain you're looking to go up.

This desire to try to move it back out into the mainstream, even under the limited guise of "appliance" type machines is simply that doesn't make any commercial sense (actually I think it makes even less sense than to try marketing it as a full blown desktop computer). There are far better suited, already mature and cheaper options around.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997, which was realistically the last chance it ever had. In 2011 that same dream leaves a truly bitter taste in one's mouth. It's a retro hobby system and I'm sorry to have to repeat this, but that is all it will ever be at this late stage of the game. Minimig (and perhaps one day Natami if/when it's released) really do show the way to go in terms of the future of the Amiga. UAE for anyone else.

For those of us committed to legacy software, I'd have to agree with you Alan.
But I run very little legacy code and I'm using my OS of choice because it provides a familiar development platform. I have Ububtu installed, but I don't write anything under it (I just use it).
I'd still like to see ARM ports of the NG OS' and if I can run Ubuntu or riscOS then I'll have those as well.
Since your not responsible for paying my OS licensing fees, I'll support what developments I care about.
And if it remains a hobby, so be it. It holds my interest.

[the_leander]

But I run very little legacy code and I'm using my OS of choice because it provides a familiar development platform.

Fine.

Since your not responsible for paying my OS licensing fees, I'll support what developments I care about.

Wholly unnecessary.

[Iggy]

hmmmm... one of this would fit very easily into an a1200 case leaving tons of room for other stuff.

ill have to check out the pandaboard

Why even put it in a case?
I'm thinking of mounting one on the back of an LCD monitor.

[minator]

Modern video editing has come a long, long way since the days of Newtec's Toaster. Everything these days is digital and in that arena I suspect AOS, even with all the improvements of MOS or AROS or OS4 would be put under severe pressure to cope with the sorts of demands that kind of software would make in today's environment.

Photo editing is probably more realistic, but then you're competing in an arena where Linux has some pretty mature and feature rich software to choose from.

I'm inclined to think Video editing will be the easier of those two. Modern chips include hardware video encode so unless you're doing some heavy video processing you don't need that much power. The previously mentioned Pandaboard has 1080p hardware encode.


OTOH The big problem in photo processing is you need ever more powerful hardware to handle ever more megapixels.  I bought Lightroom 3 a while back, I promptly upgraded to a Core i7 machine to run it!  Heavy processing on 21MP images requires a LOT of power and no Amiga flavour has that.

BTW 21MP may sound like a lot but you can get 12MP in phones now.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997

Come back?  It was never big as a desktop platform.

[commodorejohn]

Come back?  It was never big as a desktop platform.

But if we don't pretend it was the universally-beloved market ruler that was cruelly assassinated by Microsoft and Intel, we won't have any absurdly unrealistic standards for success in new-school Amiga system efforts! And man, if we didn't have those, why, we might start enjoying small-scale efforts that preserve what people liked about the Amiga even if they don't measure up to the raw computing horsepower of modern PCs! We can't have that!

[Iggy]

But if we don't pretend it was the universally-beloved market ruler that was cruelly assassinated by Microsoft and Intel, we won't have any absurdly unrealistic standards for success in new-school Amiga system efforts! And man, if we didn't have those, why, we might start enjoying small-scale efforts that preserve what people liked about the Amiga even if they don't measure up to the raw computing horsepower of modern PCs! We can't have that!

I already have that. I'm satisfied with my humble system. I'll leave the more expensive NG systems to those of you that have more money than I do.

[Hammer]

Yes, we've discussed the BeagleBoard before and if you look at earlier posts in this thread you'll see a reference I made to a more powerful, similarly sized product called the PandaBoard.
There are a lot of small ARM based systems.
And Nvidia's planning on moving the ISA to desktops and servers.

ARM ISA was on desktop PCs i.e. Acorn Archimedes(1987), Acorn Risc PC(1994), Acorn Network Computer(1996, with Oracle's support), Acorn Phoebe (1998, prototype Risc PC2).

[Iggy]

ARM ISA was on desktop PCs i.e. Acorn Archimedes(1987), Acorn Risc PC(1994), Acorn Network Computer(1996, with Oracle's support), Acorn Phoebe (1998, prototype Risc PC2).

You forgot to mention the Intel;Xscale processors used in Castle Technology Ltd's RISC OS5 machines or RISC OS 6. So technically ARM is still in these markets to this day.

Perhaps what would be a better way to say it is Nvidia intends to move an ISA which is primarily thought of as an embedded processor into mainstream use in desktops and servers.

[AmigaHeretic]

Maybe this was already mentioned.  2GHZ ARM cortex

http://www.slashgear.com/nufront-nusmart-2815-2ghz-arm-cortex-a9-looks-to-squash-tegra-2-video-14102190/

[runequester]

There are probably more coders working just on the Linux kernel today then there were developers for Amiga software even at it's height to give you an idea of the scale of the mountain you're looking to go up.

Given that I don't think HP, Intel, IBM etc ever worked for the amiga, I'd wager you are right.

The linux kernel is a pretty amazing collaboration between disparate corporations and independents.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997, which was realistically the last chance it ever had. In 2011 that same dream leaves a truly bitter taste in one's mouth. It's a retro hobby system and I'm sorry to have to repeat this, but that is all it will ever be at this late stage of the game. Minimig (and perhaps one day Natami if/when it's released) really do show the way to go in terms of the future of the Amiga. UAE for anyone else.

Keep it hobby, and it'll keep flourishing. Thats where we should be, and thats what we should work towards.

[Iggy]

Given that I don't think HP, Intel, IBM etc ever worked for the amiga, I'd wager you are right.

The linux kernel is a pretty amazing collaboration between disparate corporations and independents.



Keep it hobby, and it'll keep flourishing. Thats where we should be, and thats what we should work towards.

A hobby that still has some utility. I can deal with that. I don't think the amount of work going into this affects our hobbyist status. More its the fact that no one is likely to get rich developing for this market.

[runequester]

A hobby that still has some utility. I can deal with that. I don't think the amount of work going into this affects our hobbyist status. More its the fact that no one is likely to get rich developing for this market.

oh, I totally agree with you.

[the_leander]

I'm inclined to think Video editing will be the easier of those two. Modern chips include hardware video encode so unless you're doing some heavy video processing you don't need that much power. The previously mentioned Pandaboard has 1080p hardware encode.

You know I thought about that initially but then considered the following: Many of those hardware encoders tend to be propriatary in nature, whilst I'm sure there are possibly some open source drivers that can make full use of them I really have big doubts that that level of support would be available to small projects such as AmigaOS.

OTOH The big problem in photo processing is you need ever more powerful hardware to handle ever more megapixels.  I bought Lightroom 3 a while back, I promptly upgraded to a Core i7 machine to run it!  Heavy processing on 21MP images requires a LOT of power and no Amiga flavour has that.

I'll happily defer to you on that.

BTW 21MP may sound like a lot but you can get 12MP in phones now.

I know about those phones, when I first read about them it left me feeling incredibly old.

Come back?  It was never big as a desktop platform.

commodorejohn's response to this was a work of art. However I'll clarify, whilst it was never a major player it did have a fairly viable userbase. In 1997 if there was ever going to be anything to change the course from micro market, hideously (to the point of being non-viable) expensive hardware to something a little more reasonably priced for tinkerers and retro fans alike, it was back in 1997.

@runequestor loved your response

[dammy]

Maybe this was already mentioned.  2GHZ ARM cortex

http://www.slashgear.com/nufront-nusmart-2815-2ghz-arm-cortex-a9-looks-to-squash-tegra-2-video-14102190/

That looks pretty impressive.

[AmigaHeretic]

That looks pretty impressive.

Yeah, passive cooling at 2ghz is pretty cool.