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Offline FrankoTopic starter

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The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« on: November 26, 2010, 03:19:49 PM »
I've been reading through a lot of the old threads here from the early noughties and not even having bothered with the internet until this year I was left feeling a bit dismayed and sad about what seems to have been a huge split and infighting in the Amiga community a number of years ago, mostly with the introduction of OS4 but also MorphOS & Aros Vs so called Classic OS.

I had no idea this had gone on, as when the last of the Amiga magazines rolled of the press and I lost touch with what was happening in the Amiga community. I was left in my own happy little world thinking that all Amiga users were still out their like me doing their best to keep the old machines running. It appears this was not the case and instead of helping one another some sort of silly war broke out and the community split into different factions.

Although this is obviously old news to most of you it's left me wondering for the first time in almost 25 years of being an Amiga user if their is such a thing as the Amiga community anymore and is it worth all the time, money & effort spent on this amazing machine or is it indeed time to move on to pastures new and remember fondly just what a great machine the Amiga was/is.

Given all that, personally I see the Natami as the way forward for the Amiga, as to me it appears it's going to be basically an Amiga that runs 68K code, is fully backward compatible but will run at much faster speeds and can use modern peripherals more easily. This seems to me to be closer to a real Amiga than using MorphOS or Aros running on a processor that is totally alien to the Amiga. I suppose though this will all depend upon the Natami actually making it to production or is it time to truly consider Aros or MorphOS or dare I say it move to pastures new.

Don't get me wrong, I have quite an interest now in Aros & MorphOS and am not putting them down in any way. It just seems to me looking at what I have learned so far about the aforementioned that the Natami would be the best way forward for the Amiga in my humble opinion.

Just wondering now where does everyone else stand with their views on the future of the Amiga and why you truly believe that your personal choice would be the right path for the Amiga to take... :)
 

Offline 4pLaY

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2010, 03:24:19 PM »
Enjoy what you have and ignore all the BS? i mean, why care what lots of weirdos write on forums online? That said, if Natami is your choice, last i heard they are going to use AROS as well...

Offline bloodline

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2010, 03:24:52 PM »
Damn it!!! Where did I put my AROS flag!!! :pissed:

Seriously, for me it's AROS... Both on 68k machines (real or clones-MiniMig, replay etc) for nostalgia... and x86/ARM to get a taste of what it could have been if not for Commodore.

Offline Karlos

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2010, 03:30:54 PM »
You'll never get any two former Amiga enthusiasts to agree on what made the Amiga an Amiga, only that the nebulous whole made it what it is.

The truth of the matter is, if it waddles and quacks like a duck then it might as well be a duck. OS1.x-3.x, MOS, OS4, AROS. As for the hardware it's even more vague.

In the end, all that matters is, does it do what you want?
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Offline bloodline

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2010, 03:34:34 PM »
Actually Franko is pretty lucky to have missed the holy wars...

Offline FrankoTopic starter

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2010, 03:40:57 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;594454
Actually Franko is pretty lucky to have missed the holy wars...


Actually I've read through quite a bit of them, reckon if I'd been around here at the time I would have ended up with a lifetime ban... :lol:

I agree with what has been said so far but I'm really interested to hear peoples opinions on where they think the Amiga's future should lye & why... :)
 

Offline Heiroglyph

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 03:47:10 PM »
I agree with bloodline, AROS is the key.  We all should have focused on this over a decade ago.

It not only gives us a path forward that is controlled by the community, it also allows us to legally go back for nostalgia as well.

It just takes manpower and time.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 04:05:50 PM »
Quote from: Franko;594456
Actually I've read through quite a bit of them, reckon if I'd been around here at the time I would have ended up with a lifetime ban... :lol:

I agree with what has been said so far but I'm really interested to hear peoples opinions on where they think the Amiga's future should lye & why... :)
An interesting question is where your loyalties would have fallen? My initial sympathies fell behind PowerUp as I felt it was a cleaner expansion... This probably would have pushed me towards MOS had I not found AROS in 1999... And more importantly Michal Shlutz's x86 boot floppy...

Offline Iggy

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2010, 04:06:04 PM »
Naturally I'm biased.
I use my MorphOS based Powermac everyday and I've just upgraded it with a 1.8 Ghz Sonnett CPU card.
MorphOS will probably be the first Amigoid OS to play Bluray disks (if X86 AROS doesn't beat us to that).

While all of you argue about obsolete hardware/software or projects that aren't quite ready for regular use yet, I'm using a polished derivitive of AOS3.1 that runs much faster than an Amiga, runs many legacy applications, and has a host of MOS specific applications I use daily.

And that's my real point. I use this daily as my primary computer. How many of you can say that about your Amiga of choice?

Of course I support the wide variety of choices available because it increases our user base and offers people different options. I'm not going to try to lure you to my camp, but I know what I'm using has a real, demonstratable advantage in utility.

And were moving forward to laptop support, better graphic cards, and faster processors, all on a stable OS thats got a history that goes back to the last days of the original Amigas.

You all can keep waiting for some future solution, I've got mine and its damned good.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 04:08:24 PM by Iggy »
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Offline Golem!dk

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2010, 04:15:50 PM »
I'm not too worried about the future, I care more about what I can actually use now, that it happens to be under active development with fairly frequent updates is just a bonus.
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Offline vidarh

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2010, 04:17:00 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;594449
Damn it!!! Where did I put my AROS flag!!! :pissed:

Seriously, for me it's AROS... Both on 68k machines (real or clones-MiniMig, replay etc) for nostalgia... and x86/ARM to get a taste of what it could have been if not for Commodore.


Same here. I want both a Replay and a Natami, though the Replay looks like it'll be most suitable under the TV where my Minimig lives, while the Natami might actually get powerful enough to get more "serious" use, and I'll keep running AROS on one of my X86 boxes too, though likely hosted or in a VM for now...

I still want an X1000 too, though, and I'll keep AmigaOS4 on that because I want to play with that too... This is an expensive hobby :)

My goal is to get to the stage where I return to spending a decent percentage of my time using one or more Amiga-like OS's with as many as possible of the amenities I expect from using mostly Linux for the last 12 years.
 

Offline mechy

Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2010, 04:19:15 PM »
Quote from: Franko;594446
I've been reading through a lot of the old threads here from the early noughties and not even having bothered with the internet until this year I was left feeling a bit dismayed and sad about what seems to have been a huge split and infighting in the Amiga community a number of years ago, mostly with the introduction of OS4 but also MorphOS & Aros Vs so called Classic OS.

I had no idea this had gone on, as when the last of the Amiga magazines rolled of the press and I lost touch with what was happening in the Amiga community. I was left in my own happy little world thinking that all Amiga users were still out their like me doing their best to keep the old machines running. It appears this was not the case and instead of helping one another some sort of silly war broke out and the community split into different factions.

Although this is obviously old news to most of you it's left me wondering for the first time in almost 25 years of being an Amiga user if their is such a thing as the Amiga community anymore and is it worth all the time, money & effort spent on this amazing machine or is it indeed time to move on to pastures new and remember fondly just what a great machine the Amiga was/is.

Given all that, personally I see the Natami as the way forward for the Amiga, as to me it appears it's going to be basically an Amiga that runs 68K code, is fully backward compatible but will run at much faster speeds and can use modern peripherals more easily. This seems to me to be closer to a real Amiga than using MorphOS or Aros running on a processor that is totally alien to the Amiga. I suppose though this will all depend upon the Natami actually making it to production or is it time to truly consider Aros or MorphOS or dare I say it move to pastures new.

Don't get me wrong, I have quite an interest now in Aros & MorphOS and am not putting them down in any way. It just seems to me looking at what I have learned so far about the aforementioned that the Natami would be the best way forward for the Amiga in my humble opinion.

Just wondering now where does everyone else stand with their views on the future of the Amiga and why you truly believe that your personal choice would be the right path for the Amiga to take... :)


At the risk of sounding negative,its looking dismal. Used to be a time(yea the good old days) when everyone was working for one common goal to improve the amiga hardware and software wise. Sadly now you have half a dozen factions split off in all directions.most ignore the real machine and scoff about it being too slow instead of fixing it.Half of them whine real amiga stuff is too expensive but don't realize it holds its value mostly when you sell it which is a good thing and could be considered an investment.Some whine its not available,which is total BS because the typical 1200 is what $150-$500usd depending what it comes with.not often you can run a computer for 2,5,10 years and sell it for nearly what you paid or more in some cases. Most clones/macs depreciate before you even buy them.Luckily, some companies like e3b/individual still make hardware for our beloved old amiga's but suffer from ever declining market of real amiga hardware users and are forced to live in ever shrinking markets.You guys won't like this,but emulation users are partly to blame for this because when you quit being part of the amiga market,then you are helping to shrink the numbers for these companies to sell to and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that when they go we are left in the cold..Lets face it most emu users don't support the hardware makers by buying hardware and rarely if ever buy software(theres a few who do i know)..Then we have some emulator/PC users who code for the amiga but code bloatware designed to run on fake speeds emulation provides,and this contaminates the 68K code on aminet with apps that aren't even usable on a real amiga because they crawl(thanks assholes!).I can't count the number of times when someone asks a question about their hardware or some such that he/she is told "just got do it on a emulator or get a emulator its easier"... In the old days amigan's would band together to try and solve a problem,be it lack of a certain piece of hardware or a program and fix the problem.Emulation,aros,and now morphos with its lack of real amiga hardware support have joined the problem,splitting the amiga community further apart.They say aros will run on a real amiga,but then whats the point?  
The reality is none of us would even be here if it weren't for the real machines. They are what a amiga is,you cannot simply reduce it to a OS.You can put amiga stickers all over clones pc's with emulation and call it amiga,but its not.If you do this you are missing out on the coolness that made amiga. I can say the only thing happening lately that seems remotely interesting is the NAtami,but i can't understand why they would want AROS.
The whole point of the A1000 was originally to do something new and revolutionary.When all your criteria for running amiga os is to simply dump it on cheap hardware,you have lost sight of this,and reduced it to just a OS. I can't help thing if amigans had stuck together true on their hardware,if we'd of not of had new ppc boards by now. The market was only viable when enough people want it.Amiga hardware was pretty dead end from the start but theres still so much more that could be done with it. Look at the atari crowd,they have 100Mhz+ 060 accelerators with fast ram. Why did no one put ethernet,and or usb on an accelerator for amiga? We can't say cost is the problem,because the atari people managed it, maybe they just stick together better than we do?

You see franko,i lived thru all this mess, i have been at this stuff since late 87'. i have seen it all. So much wasted time bickering,and watching people split off in factions,which don't even get along.Most won't agree,but it is pretty hopeless. Your choices are a real amiga,emulation on a pc clone,aros,morphos on a mac,or the new Aeon stuff that most can't afford and natami,which for me holds the most interesting hope.we may see natami,maybe not. I don't see a video slot on the natami,so old toaster users may be left out,it talks about zorro tho but i cant tell if the slots on board are original size zorro slots.
For now i stick with my real hardware,its the best feeling i get when i use it still but i won't kid my self.

Flame away gents ;)
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2010, 04:22:47 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;594458
An interesting question is where your loyalties would have fallen? My initial sympathies fell behind PowerUp as I felt it was a cleaner expansion... This probably would have pushed me towards MOS had I not found AROS in 1999... And more importantly Michal Shlutz's x86 boot floppy...


I also invested in PowerUp, but when WarpOS came along with it's then much improved context switching time and later emulation of powerup, I got lured to the other side.

Then it all got a bit meh and I lost interest in the scene all together for quite some time.
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Offline TCMSLP

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2010, 04:23:18 PM »
I find the current situation very interesting and my opinions are shifting somewhat as a consequence of recent developments!

We have new accelerators for the classics, current development of OS4.x (IMO the true Amiga successor), backporting of OS4.1, Natami (which I understood would run a modified 3.x?), MiniMig AGA with super-fast memory access and huge chunks of cache ... so many interesting developments.

We then have AROS which I'm becoming increasingly interested in.  IMO it's not a 'true successor to AOS' *but* the fact it's becoming usable as an everyday OS *and* being backported to run on classic hardware is fantastic news too.   I hear a rumour AROS may also be used for Natami...

OS4.x is driving forward on new PPC hardware (X1000) with multi-core support etc, new XMOS technology ... the recent video of Hyperion talks at AmiWest has renewed my enthusiasm for OS4 and associated hardware.

I've always had an interest in MorphOS but have yet to acquire hardware to run it on.  It looks very nice though, with it's own set of applications - and probably the most advanced OS in terms of daily usability.

In the past we've had too few 'dead end' options.  We now have too many options all with a promising future.  So many options I don't know which path (or paths) to take!

I certainly don't think it's time to jump ship - for once things are looking very positive.  The only current downer is the damage Commodore USA are hoping to do to the Amiga name/brand.

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Offline Tenacious

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Re: The Future Of The Amiga - Where Do You Stand...
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2010, 04:24:13 PM »
Must there be a way foreward?  Most of my Amigas are as functional and fun to use as ever.  I certainly have enjoyed the advancing OS (3.5, and 3.9) and the brilliant hardware that has emerged since Commodore's death.  I intend to continue this way for a long time.  I have no illusions about Amiga returning from the fringe.  Strangely, I find this comforting in a way.  How many other people (besides us) have a computer plateform all to themselves?

Before responsibilty grabbed me, I had the time to learn Amiga OS very thoroughly.  I will never get the chance to learn another OS to the same depth.  Not that I want to, Amiga may be the last OS to truly serve the user.  Besides, I can always turn on a newer machine when a modern file comes along.

Do I need greener pastures?  For me there aren't any.  Computer advancement moves far faster than people, society, government and laws, and my ability to adapt.  I was ready for it all to stop when computers made good librarians for books, music, and movies.  The advances of the last 5 years seem much more Orwellian, the projected next 20 years may turn into a nightmare for our civilization.  Jay Miner may have got more right than our favorite computer.  :(

My 2 cents.

EDIT:  Sorry for the gloom, I found iMonitor running on my corporate laptop the other day.  It was a sobering moment!
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 04:40:49 PM by Tenacious »