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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 12:31:27 AM

Title: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 12:31:27 AM
After watching Steve in his new video I decided to download Icaros Desktop 1.3.
After installing it to Virtual Box, I see it is much more stable than I have seen before.
Good work to all working on it.

I was going to wait a while for Aros to get more bundled up with UAE, M68k, Aros KickStart,etc.
I am glad it is going well.

One thing I need to fix is the screen resolution. I run at 1600 x 900 and Icaros wants to run at 1600 x 1200. I have to close the Wanderer prompts. I have not been able to get around it yet.

I also can not get Mplayer to view Youtube videos. I am wonder if YT has changed there site.

I hope that a test video and audio get included into future releases.

Quake and Doom ran well but Doom did not have any sound.

Later.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: RMK305 on June 08, 2011, 02:51:56 AM
Cheers for the heads up on the video, just watched it there. I'm waiting to see what sort of system Steve comes out with to replace the imica's as I'm quite keep to give Aros a try once it makes a little more progress.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 04:07:16 AM
I found that I can put VBox into a scale mode.
I am running in full screen now.
I will try later to see how much of Wanderer I need to close to get the screen size to work.
1024 x 768 seems to be limiting.

Aros seems to be running smooth.
I will try other sites to see how they are.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 04:20:17 AM
Virtual Box seems to be faster on my system than Qemu.
I tried the html5 beta on http://www.youtube.com/html5 and I got undefined and the video did not
play.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 07:30:11 AM
I still am not able to get Aros to go 1600 x 900.
I do not have the Wanderer prompts anymore.
I guess that was qemu situation.
I booted off the dvd and I have no sound or ether net. I am using usb wireless anyway.
The video was good at 1280 x 1024.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 08, 2011, 07:47:54 AM
A kind Amigan gave me a link on how to change VBox to 1600 x 900.
I went ahead and changed the 1024 x 768 configuration on grub to 1600 x 900 and then went full screen.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 09, 2011, 11:38:36 AM
I would like to add that when I push a key on the keyboard it produces a '('. It seems to do this once. I have changed the setting to American 104. I think it has fixed it.

I am liking Murks. I have been making a basic program with it. It is a basic "Hello World" program.
The stability has been greatly improved. I guess if I keep using it I will see for sure.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 09, 2011, 06:58:51 PM
So I was excited to see a new release, I booted it up in Virtual PC, and was amazed at how polished it looked! Instantly I put in my Amiga Forever disk and let it auto configure Ami-Bridge. After this I tried to start up Ami-Bridge in the Prefs so I could tweak the options, but....


it won't load.

Also, I am not getting any audio in Virtual PC.

So my question is:

What emulator works fast and support AROS's audio.

What emulator will not prevent Ami-Bridge/Janus Prefs from loading?
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 09, 2011, 10:33:50 PM
I can set the sound card and play a test sound, but when videos are played they run fast and have no sound.
I will try a different VBox sound setting.
Edit:
AC97 seems to work, but not for video.
Still runs fast.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 10, 2011, 08:24:49 PM
I don't see how I can change the virtual sound card type. Also, anyone got any clues as to why the GUI for Janus refuses to load? I can run the emu, but not the GUI.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: shaf on June 10, 2011, 08:52:51 PM
AROS has no Virtual audio Driver support. Currently the most reliable audio drivers are based on the SBLive Series of Cards.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 10, 2011, 09:15:43 PM
So that means no audio at all no matter what emulator I use?

-1 for AROS. :/
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: Cammy on June 10, 2011, 10:19:39 PM
If Aros is missing anything it's just because none of us have added it yet, there's no one really to blame or ask to fix it. I'm not sure how to program drivers myself, and haven't used any virtual PC emulators yet so I can't help with your audio problem, sorry.

But I have had pretty good success with running Aros natively on my various PCs. You are better off if you build a PC out of supported components to begin with rather than hoping it will work on an existing PC because it usually ends in disappointment. There are just too many different chipsets for the two or three occasional/casual Aros developers to handle. It doesn't help that the three major distributions are handled nearly entirely by a single person each, usually only with their own PC and a virtual PC setup to test it on.

When you finally get a fully supported system set up though, it's a really fun experience. I'm fortunate to have found several broken PCs in junk piles on the side of the road recently, so I've finally built myself an almost fully supported Aros box from the parts. I only lack a compatible network card since it seems none of the on-board ethernet chipsets are supported in the ten working PCs I built from the parts. But an ethernet card costs about $4-5 from China or Hong Kong so I can afford to buy one of those myself.

I have used Aros with Vesa, Intel GMA, nVidia and Radeon drivers on my various PCs here, and by far the best one to use is nVidia. It's still the only one with 3D support, so you can play games like SuperTuxKart and Assault Cube with 3D acceleration. Intel GMA is second best, then Vesa, then Radeon. Radeon drivers don't even support screen dragging yet, but the rest do.

I was lucky that amongst all the junked PCs there was a single working SoundBlaster Live card, which I use with Aros in my PC, but also the built-in audio in my Acer Aspire 3610 works with the AC97 driver in AHI. A few of the various motherboards I found had supported on-board audio chips too, so if you were to build a PC there are some motherboards with supported audio.

I tried out Janus-UAE integration with coherency enabled in Icaros 1.3, after clicking on the Start Amibridge wizard and it promptly copied all the required files from my Amiga Forever CD. Then I loaded the Janus UAE prefs, enabled Integration and Coherency, saved the settings and quit. Then I launched the "Add Program" wizard (I first had to copy the "Add ADF Game" icon over the top of the "Add Program" icon because it wasn't executing itself), and selected a 68k OS3 program. In this case, I chose AmigaAmp. After a few seconds loading up the emulation, AmigaAmp popped up on my Aros desktop. I was able to drag it around the screen and its equalizer and playlist windows snapped to it when I let go, just as they do in OS3. This should be very handy, since there are no native MP3 players for Aros yet, unless you want to play them through the CLI or one at a time in MPlayer. I tried several other programs and they worked well too. I was even able to resize OS3 windows with the Aros frames that are used around them, and of course it uses the Aros menus too! While it's not up to the same level of transparent emulation and integration that MorphOS has, it's getting there and it's much better than it ever has been before.

I think a better way of using Aros without having to install it on your hard drive is to install it to a USB stick and boot from that rather than use virtualisation.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 10, 2011, 10:51:45 PM
So with an Aspire One I can expect a smooth experience as well as 3D acceleration in OpenGl, or will it all be software based?

 Also, when you say you opened Janus prefs, does that mean you opened Ami-Bridge under the prefs directory?

 I got it set up under emulation with the Amiga Forever CD, but after that when ever I try to open up Ami-Bridge for further configuration, nothing happens.

Lastly, I have tried various machines that "I thought" had the correct ship set, cards, and so on and so forth, but so far I have had issue after issue running the OS, especially when trying to use UAE. I get a lot of screen garbage, system hangs, slow downs, sound issues, etc.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 10, 2011, 10:55:03 PM
Aros runs fairly fast on my Virtual Box setup. I can hear sound when I choose AC97 in aros and click on test. It does not work on any video I play.
Owb is great but no flash plug-in.
Murks is great, I started programming on it.
edit
I am not against getting hardware for an Aros build. I just wish I had the money for a new processor and mainboard.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: Cammy on June 10, 2011, 11:16:44 PM
3D acceleration only works with selected nVidia chipsets, and games that require it won't work properly at all with other drivers and chipsets.

When I opened the Janus-UAE prefs I went to Work:Extras/AmiBridge/emulator/ and double-clicked on the Janus-uae icon. Then all I needed to do was change and save the prefs and all worked fine.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: kedawa on June 10, 2011, 11:33:24 PM
I've wanted to build an AROS box using well supported hardware, but I haven't been able to find out which mainboards the prebuilt systems are using.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 11, 2011, 01:11:04 AM
I was thinking. The fact that there are no audio drivers available for use with emulators is a bad sign. I mean isn't this where all the developers do their development? In a virtual environment due to the lack of memory protection?

Or do they not need sound drivers to code that aspect correctly?



As for shopping for the right board... it is a shame that resellers of such boards do not list the exact model of the chips that in the boards half the time. That would save us a ton of hassel.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: ncafferkey on June 11, 2011, 01:57:39 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;644129
I was thinking. The fact that there are no audio drivers available for use with emulators is a bad sign. I mean isn't this where all the developers do their development? In a virtual environment due to the lack of memory protection?


Are you reading any of the replies in this thread? trekiej has already mentioned twice that VirtualBox's AC97 emulation works with AROS. *If* your CPU has hardware virtualisation, VirtualBox is great for running AROS. I've heard VMWare is good for AROS as well, but I don't know if it has sound.

Quote from: shaf

AROS has no Virtual audio Driver support. Currently the most reliable audio drivers are based on the SBLive Series of Cards.


Maybe the SBLive drivers are the most reliable, I don't know. But the HDAudio and AC97 drivers are pretty good on the right hardware too. There's also an Envy24 driver, but I haven't used it.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 11, 2011, 02:03:29 AM
Quote from: ncafferkey;644132
Are you reading any of the replies in this thread? trekiej has already mentioned twice that VirtualBox's AC97 emulation works with AROS. *If* your CPU has hardware virtualisation, VirtualBox is great for running AROS. I've heard VMWare is good for AROS as well, but I don't know if it has sound.



Maybe the SBLive drivers are the most reliable, I don't know. But the HDAudio and AC97 drivers are pretty good on the right hardware too. There's also an Envy24 driver, but I haven't used it.


I read that and was confused. My copy of Virtual Box does not allow one to custom config their virtual sound chip.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: ncafferkey on June 11, 2011, 02:17:15 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;644135
I read that and was confused. My copy of Virtual Box does not allow one to custom config their virtual sound chip.


AFAIK older versions of VBox are stuck to AC97, while newer versions give you a choice of AC97 or HDAudio (the AROS HDAudio driver doesn't work with it though).
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: shaf on June 11, 2011, 02:48:34 AM
I couldn't get the AC97 Driver working on my Motherboard ( Realtek ALC850 Chipset) which is why i switched to the SBLive Card. Although That was with Icaros 1.26 I don't think the Audio Drivers changed in 1.30.

The one minor problem is the additional THEMES do not appear to work although the assigns for SYS:THEME and SYS:THEMES appear to be correct. Still get the error THEMES: does not exist.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 11, 2011, 03:45:01 AM
I go into the aros settings and change the audio there.
Quake sounds good.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 03:27:26 AM
I got Aros (Icaros Desktop 1.3) installed today.
1. Make sure that Grub gets installed to the drive you specified in the partitioning section in the beginning.
If you had unit 8 like I did then it will be the same for a single drive setup. It is a 20 Gig drive.

2. when you setup your sound card and Mplayer plays fast, you go into AHI and set it up. (aros-exec post)
For example you select Music and then you card. Then select Unit 0 and your card again. You will repeat for each setting. Make sure the frequency is the same too. Thanks Clusteruk for the card. I have not forgotten.

3. The network works. OWB seems to cause the system to crash. I am not for sure about it.
I use a Linksys router with DHCP enabled. When I go the maint. page the password prompt comes up. I enter the password or click cancel it reboots the system.

4.If I had a 6600GT or 7600 GT, I would have a good machine. I do not know how it will work with pci-e with those cards.

5. Before I wiped the drive. I had a chance to run Amibrige. It ran well but the mouse pointers were not synced. I did not run it at the same resolution so I did not have coherency. I think.

6. It really does look to be stable.

Congratulations to the Team.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 17, 2011, 03:53:17 AM
I finally got a laptop that runs it well. UAE is still crappy, but everything else works pretty damn good for the most part. It ain't BeOS/Haiku and it ain't MorphOS, but it really ain't all that bad with the right hardware after all.

Now... How to delete all those screen modes from Grub that I don't need.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: fishy_fiz on June 17, 2011, 04:38:41 AM
edit: oops. accidently typed a response to another thread in here  :)
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 05:18:12 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;645753
I finally got a laptop that runs it well. UAE is still crappy, but everything else works pretty damn good for the most part. It ain't BeOS/Haiku and it ain't MorphOS, but it really ain't all that bad with the right hardware after all.

Now... How to delete all those screen modes from Grub that I don't need.


You can delete them out of Grub.conf. Feel free to back up that file first. Commenting them out would be better.
I think it is a '#".
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 17, 2011, 05:40:54 AM
Speaking for myself, I'm just happy that Icaros 1.3 (appears to) fully support my SL510. I actually have a proper screen, instead of a stretched 1024x768 res. Sound is good. Only issues I've encountered is that some games run kinda choppy. Not a loss for me, since I'm not really much into games anymore. I only wish I could find some decent (reliable) programming tools for it. (Of course, I also wish I could actually invest the time in finding those things... sigh.)

I guess, since AROS finally supports the gfx card on my laptop, it's probably time for another donation...

Kudos to the AROS guys.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 06:35:14 AM
Right now Murks and AmiDevCPP seem to be it for programming,
except the wonderful Hollywood Media Abstract Layer package.
It has to be run on Windows or Amiga.
It makes executable for  
   * AmigaOS 3 (m68k)
    * AmigaOS 4 (ppc)
    * AROS (i386)
    * Linux (i386)*
    * Mac OS X (i386)*
    * Mac OS X (ppc)*
    * MorphOS (ppc)
    * WarpOS (m68k/ppc)
    * Windows (i386)
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 17, 2011, 02:16:50 PM
I've used AmiDevCpp, it's decent. But I need a good source-level debugger for the AROS side of things.

There was a guy working on something more robust for AROS, but I'm guessing it got too complicated, life got too busy or both. He hasn't done anything for it in a while. A shame. I'd love to have that, might even pay for it.

Oh well, I'll continue to play with AROS and do what I can when I can. :)
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 03:01:02 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;645848
I've used AmiDevCpp, it's decent. But I need a good source-level debugger for the AROS side of things.

There was a guy working on something more robust for AROS, but I'm guessing it got too complicated, life got too busy or both. He hasn't done anything for it in a while. A shame. I'd love to have that, might even pay for it.

Oh well, I'll continue to play with AROS and do what I can when I can. :)


Do you remember what the name of the app. was?

There is someone using Pascal as a Rapid Aplication Dev. tool on aros-exec.
I forgot about that one.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 17, 2011, 05:47:31 PM
Ganymede IDE. A quick search of the 'Net for "AROS Ganymede" shows that he last reported his progress in October. I haven't found anything since. It's no small undertaking, so he may be balancing it with real life. :) I wish him success. I'd certainly pay for it, if it proves to be worth it.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 17, 2011, 05:54:17 PM
Quote from: trekiej;645772
You can delete them out of Grub.conf. Feel free to back up that file first. Commenting them out would be better.
I think it is a '#".


Where can I acess these grub files and then save the changes? I can edit during boot time but can not save my changes.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 06:06:21 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;645890
Ganymede IDE. A quick search of the 'Net for "AROS Ganymede" shows that he last reported his progress in October. I haven't found anything since. It's no small undertaking, so he may be balancing it with real life. :) I wish him success. I'd certainly pay for it, if it proves to be worth it.


Sounds familiar from aros-exec. Maybe someone could email and see what is up.
What do you think it would be worth?

@XDelusion:
Aros:Boot/Grub/Grub.conf
I believe. I do not have a machine running right now to confirm it.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on June 17, 2011, 06:37:20 PM
Cool, I'll look when I get home. Thanks!
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: paolone on June 17, 2011, 06:51:38 PM
Repetita iuvant, ancient romans said.

Please, read the Icaros Desktop user manual, most of the issues I've read here are covered by the documentation, and reading it you would have saved much time and got less problems.

In particular, with virtualization, sound, graphic mode and amibridge setup.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 17, 2011, 07:06:14 PM
It's possible the Roman's also said "Carpe caseum!" Not that it anything to do with this. :D
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 17, 2011, 07:15:07 PM
Quote from: trekiej;645893
What do you think it would be worth?


I suppose that depends on what he produces and what he wants for it. :) Sadly, I wouldn't pay too much, but only because I don't know how much I'd use it. Definitely like to have it, though. That's part of my frustration with the state of Amiga Land, the lack of really good programming tools. I'd love to have Java or Mono, for example...
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: Heiroglyph on June 17, 2011, 08:18:37 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;645908
I suppose that depends on what he produces and what he wants for it. :) Sadly, I wouldn't pay too much, but only because I don't know how much I'd use it. Definitely like to have it, though. That's part of my frustration with the state of Amiga Land, the lack of really good programming tools. I'd love to have Java or Mono, for example...


Amen brother.

I'm cross compiling everything and debugging with printf's and UAE.  It's not fun.

I'd pay well for a good IDE with a GUI debugger.  Visual Studio spoiled me a long time ago so I find even the Linux IDE's lacking in many ways, but anything is better than the current state of things.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 17, 2011, 09:12:57 PM
An IDE is a needed bounty.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on June 18, 2011, 12:24:05 AM
I'm not sure a bounty is needed. :) We got Ganymede, if Proto ever produces it. If not, we got Murks, which is OK... although for someone like me who wants to get to the business of coding rather than learning how to use Murks, not my favorite option. And we got AmiDevCpp, even if we have to use printf statements for debugging.

But I'm with you. Gimme somethin' a little better.

Oh, and I took a closer look at that RAD Pascal you were talking about. Nice, very nice. Definitely have to look even closer at that.


@ Heiroglyph

On the Amiga side, I've had some success with source-level debugging using either SasC or StormC. Biggest problem is having to move the project from AmiDevCpp to one of the others. Not always easy.

But, of course, neither of these options exist for AROS.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: trekiej on June 19, 2011, 09:11:35 AM
I thought I would give a Youtube link a try.

[youtube]-w0WAg6kr4M&feature=channel_video_title[/youtube]
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: mt12345 on November 18, 2011, 07:36:46 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;645774
Speaking for myself, I'm just happy that Icaros 1.3 (appears to) fully support my SL510. I actually have a proper screen, instead of a stretched 1024x768 res. Sound is good. Only issues I've encountered is that some games run kinda choppy. Not a loss for me, since I'm not really much into games anymore. I only wish I could find some decent (reliable) programming tools for it. (Of course, I also wish I could actually invest the time in finding those things... sigh.)

I guess, since AROS finally supports the gfx card on my laptop, it's probably time for another donation...

Kudos to the AROS guys.


No problems so far running  Aros on SL510? Does it crash? What games run choppy?
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: XDelusion on November 19, 2011, 12:36:57 AM
Edit: Posted in wrong thread.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: nicholas on November 19, 2011, 12:46:10 AM
Quote from: EDanaII;645908
I suppose that depends on what he produces and what he wants for it. :) Sadly, I wouldn't pay too much, but only because I don't know how much I'd use it. Definitely like to have it, though. That's part of my frustration with the state of Amiga Land, the lack of really good programming tools. I'd love to have Java or Mono, for example...


Porting something like JamVM would be relatively simple, but it's the huge class libraries that make it a difficult task to have a full Java stack on Amiga OS's.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: bloodline on November 19, 2011, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: nicholas;668401
Porting something like JamVM would be relatively simple, but it's the huge class libraries that make it a difficult task to have a full Java stack on Amiga OS's.
I have a pathological (probably unjustified) hatred of Java... Do we really really need it? (yes I know I have two apps open right now that are built with Java... Cyberduck and Arduino... I'm so conflicted)
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: EDanaII on November 19, 2011, 02:20:44 PM
I have a pathological (completely justified) hatred of C and C++. ;) So, yea, a more mature next-gen language would be nice. It doesn't have to be Java, I'd be happy with C# too.


@ Nicholas

True, but it'd still be nice to have.


@ mt12345

Still running fine. Unfortunately, I don't use it heavily enough to say it's totally stable, but it is usable. As to games, like I mentioned, I just don't play games much anymore, so I don't remember which ones I tested that didn't run to well. I remember Doom ran without issues.

Ed.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: nicholas on November 19, 2011, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: bloodline;668429
I have a pathological (probably unjustified) hatred of Java... Do we really really need it? (yes I know I have two apps open right now that are built with Java... Cyberduck and Arduino... I'm so conflicted)


I'm not the world's greatest fan of Java myself, but it's much closer to C++ than Obj-C is, which makes it better for me.
Title: Re: Icaros Desktop 1.3
Post by: nicholas on November 21, 2011, 01:59:56 PM
Now this JVM should run on Amiga NG systems right now. :)

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/11/21/0454254/javascript-jvm-runs-java