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Author Topic: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1  (Read 31447 times)

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Offline Dandy

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« on: October 24, 2016, 10:50:42 AM »
Quote from: eliyahu;806156




Introducing Warp3D Nova
Shader based 3D graphics are finally a reality!
...
Requirements

  • AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition or newer
  • A supported Southern Island* series graphics card with GDDR5 RAM

- Radeon HD 7750-7970 series
- Radeon R5 230/235/235x
- Radeon R7 250x/265 series
- Radeon R9 270/270x/280/280x

(*Not compatible with HD7790 or Southern Island graphics cards with DDR3 RAM)
...


Some questions:

- Does the requirement "AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition or newer" include the AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition for PPC equipped classic Amigas as well?

- If so, do I understand you correctly that I would have to throw my Voodoo4 PCI out for one of the mentioned Radeons, in order to be able to use Warp3D Nova?

- Do the mentioned Radeons work with my old Mediator, or would they even require the new 3V version of the Mediator?

- Is a CSPPC in a classic A4000 sufficient at all for the daily use of Warp3D Nova, or does it only make sense with NG Amiga hardware?

- What software can currently take advantage of Warp3D Nova?
All the best,

Dandy

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 12:29:10 PM »
@ wawrzon:

Quote from: wawrzon;815644


forget it..



It would be nice to know to whom and to what you're replying.

Not just you personally, but all posters here who have this bad habit of replying without indicating to whom and to what they're replying.

Is it really too demanding for you to put an "@ xyz:" at the beginning of a posting/reply or simply to use the "Quote"-button?
All the best,

Dandy

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 10:15:16 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;815648


to you. isnt it obvious, that the post references the one just above if there is no quote?



I saw this as one possibility among others.
But to be sure I think it would be the better way to principally use the "Quote"-button or to begin a posting with "@ xyz:"...

Quote from: wawrzon;815648


and isnt it obvious that you cannot fit a pci-e card into the mediator, when there is no appropriate slot?



Well, it's also obvious that you cannot plug an SCSI-II device into an UW-SCSI cable - unless you use a suitable ADAPTER...

Quote from: wawrzon;815648


you can of course be first to try, even if it would require adapter over adapter over Adapter...



That sounds familiar!
If I e.g. copied a file from my internal HD to an SD-memory card (or the other way round), the path of the data looked like this:

IDE-HD<->UW-adapter<->CSPPC with UW-SCSI hostADAPTER<->Amiga mobo<->Zorro III busboard<->Mediator PCI busboard<->Spider II USB2.0 host ADAPTER<->USB hub<->USB card reader<->SD-memory card.

(OK - meanwhile the path is shorter, as I exchanged the PCI Spider II for a  Deneb in a Zorro III slot)

Adapters everywhere!!!
:eek:  :D

Quote from: wawrzon;815648


just to prove that the driver doesnt work nevertheless, ...



That would be really bad luck after all the effort of finding and fitting all the required adapters...
:biglaugh:

But I would nevertheless expect the driver (in the case at hand the driver for a new, supported Radeon graca) to work with the graca, despite "all the adapters" - like copying data from my internal HD to an SD-memory card works in the example above - despite all the 'adapters'...

Quote from: wawrzon;815648


but according to your posts im not sure if the system you are planning to use is stable enough to deliver dependable results.



I'm not PLANNING to use a certain system, I'm already using it since I built it back in 1997/98.

Aside from current booting problems due to contact issues in the connector between CSPPC and the A4k mobo, the system ran stable since I built it.

I was just wondering if I could take advantage of the new Warp3D Nova with this given system - and to what extend.

And what I possibly might have to change in my given system, in order to be technically (harwarewise) able to  capitalise on the new Warp3D Nova...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 10:26:35 AM by Dandy »
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 07:17:22 AM »
@ Rob - #87:

Quote

Original by Rob:

The current CPUs available for 68k Amigas are a major bottleneck too.
...



As you're just talking about 'bottlenecks' in 68k cpus - does anyone here have a reasonable explanation why the CyberstormPPC only allows the use of 128 mB RAM?

According to 'Vintage Box': MC68060 tech. details (German only), the Motorola MC68060 CPU can directly address up to 4gB memory.

So what is the problem (aside from missing slots for more RAM chips) to add more RAM to a CSPPC?
I always thought 128mB is too little RAM for such a system...
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 09:29:43 AM »
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815692


It is because of the Memory-Map of the A3000/4000....

$0400 0000 - $07FF FFFF         Motherboard Fast RAM

$0800 0000 - $0FFF FFFF    Coprocessor Slot Expansion

$1000 0000 - $7FFF FFFF      Zorro III Expansion

so only 128 MB Ram are adressable to the Processor-Slot :(




Hmmm - difficult to believe.

Aside from 2 mB CHIP RAM, I do not use the adress space for the mobo ram at all, as I have my 128 mB of 64 bit ram on the CSPPC.
Does the CSPPC count as "Coprocessor Slot Expansion"?

It is really hard to believe that just 128 mB out of the 4096 mB of RAM the 060 can directly address are left for real, physical RAM...

It means that 3968 mB are reserved for the "Memory-Map of the A3000/4000", right?
:confused:  

And this is "hard wired" and cannot be changed?
:shocked:

No way to use unused parts of this "Memory-Map of the A3000/4000" for real, physical RAM?

Bummer - that's really disappointing...
:(
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 01:51:16 PM »
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


YES! It is different in the A1200.... there is NO MOBO-Fastmem and NO Zorro III... So Blizzard with SCSI-Module or BlizzardPPC can use 256 MB or more...



I always wondered why the inferior A1200 could be loaded with more RAM than an A4k with CSPPC...

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


Zorro III Space YES. So think about a Mediatorboard in your A4000



Already got a Mediator.

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


with a 256 MB GFX-Card



I have a 32 mB Voodoo4...

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


and 4 ZoRAM Boards :)



In the Mediator?
I thought the ZorRAM was for the Zorro Bus.
And all the ZorRAM Memory cannot be used as FastRAM - just as swap memory.
For this I have a 1tB HD at a fraction of the price of one overpriced ZorRAM board.

Furthermore, the RAM on the CSPPC is 64 But wide. I doubt the ZorRAM boards also provide 64 Bit wide RAM.

What I need is more real 64 Bit wide FastRAM on the CSPPC.

IIRC, I have something between 90 and 100 mB FAST available after booting.
If I want to start NetSurf for example, I already need 32 mB just for that.
Then roughly half of the RAM on the CSPPC is already consumed and there's not much left for serious multitasking with e.g. ArtEffect and/or Wildfire7 PPC...

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


That is more than 1 GB of Adressspace.... build a ZoRAM++ with 1 GB for example....



What for (see my arguments above)?
:confused:  

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


Maybe with a Hack something like the 64MB MOBO-Fastram-Hack.... but I have no Idea if this works.....

The aktual update for OS4.1 FE includes a new Feature that you could use Zorro 3 RAM as RAM instead of SWAP-Space.



Now this sounds interesting. Can you come up with a link to these news to learn more about it?

But nevertheless - as my main system is OS 3.9/WarpOS 16.1 (I just have an 'experimental' installation of OS 4.0 classic, as it doesn't support my hardware config sufficiently), I would need an OS 3.9 version of this feature and it would have to support my 1 tB harddrive at the UW-SCSI of the CSPPC besides the ZorRAM boards.

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815893


I think they managed it to "swap" parts of the Cyberstorm Memory with Z3-Ram. Let us call it an intelligent "copy" Routine.....so there will be more RAM available, wenn the update comes out.



I'm wondering how the Performance is, given the fact that CSPPC's RAM is 64 Bit wide and ZorRAM's is just 32 Bit. I might get better transfer rates with a real harddrive on the UW-SCSI of the CSPPC...
All the best,

Dandy

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 12:26:00 PM »
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815971


Most of the Mediatorboards have PCI AND ZorroIII :D so you can install 4 PCI cards AND 4 ZoRAM-Boards if you want....
...



:shocked:
Of course!
And I got one of the "rare" ones and have to install Zorro cards in the Zorro III slots on the Micronik Z-III busboard 'beneath' the Mediator:



But wouldn't the access to cards in the Mediator be anyway generally slower than access to cards in a Zorro III Slot?

I don't know how other Mediators work - but with the one I have the information coming from a Zorro III slot would first have to be processed by the Mediator's logic cirucits, before it reaches any slot on the Mediator (see photo).

And processing costs time...

So I would assume that a ZorRAM card in a Zorro III slot directly on the Micronik Z-III busboard must be slightly faster than the same card in a Z-III slot on a Mediator with Z-III slots.

Quote from: Rotzloeffel;815971


...
think about the WinUAE-users.... they are also limited on 128 MB Fastmem....



My memory may be tricking me, but I'm quite sure that I could set up my outdated AmigaForever 2006 to use more RAM, e.g. 1 gB.
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

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Re: Introducing Warp3D Nova for AmigaOS 4.1
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 10:43:23 AM »
Quote from: paul1981;816083


Dandy, it sounds like you need to upgrade to the 'inferior A1200' if you'd like 256MB Fast RAM. Anything else is  hack.



Paul, I actually HAVE a towered A1200.

And it is sitting in the corner and collecting dust for a reason:
It IS inferior compared to an A4000.

The address bus of the Motorola 68EC020 (a variant of the Motorola 68020) in an A1200 just has a word size of 24 Bit, whereby a fully specced version in theory could address an address space of just 16 mB of RAM.

By contrast, the address bus of the A4000 has a word size of real 32 Bit, whereby in theory an address space of 4 gB RAM could be addressed.
All the best,

Dandy

Website maintained by me

If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)