Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: on May 05, 2009, 03:14:03 PM
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Good morning,
Since the other thread was getting crowded;
Just to give you an idea of what we're talking about in the other thread regarding Amiga.org's future, I've created a very BASIC mockup of what the site MIGHT look like if we went with vBulletin.
Again, it's very basic.
NO LINKS WORK
THERE MIGHT BE ERRORS ON THE PAGE
It's just an idea.
Check it with your Amiga and let me know if it works for you, keeping in mind, there may be coding errors since I was in a hurry and Dreamweaver ain't what it used to be, especially when trying to code backwards to HTML 3.x
http://www.amiga.org/mockup/
Wayne
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Looks ok to me. The community make Amiga.org, not the design. But as you are after comments about the design... the blue is a bit harsh on the eyes in the logo/header area.
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Looks good ; even the blue!
Matter of taste.
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tonyyeb wrote:
Looks ok to me. The community make Amiga.org, not the design.
Yeah I have to agree. Any new layout will take some getting used to, no matter what it is.
It`s such a bloody shame that the site has to change, but there`s nothing we can do about that.
As long as we can keep the Random Photo section lol!!! :-D
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It looks same on OWB and IBrowse, so technically it seems to be working for old browsers too.
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Looks good! just tried it with:
OWB 3.12
Ibrowse 2.4
Aweb APL Lite 3.5.09
Voyager 3.3.126
All of them displayed just fine and alike with the exception of the blue strip in Voyager which appeared as a rectangle on the left instead but still had the A.Org logo and text.
Richard
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Tension wrote:
As long as we can keep the Random Photo section lol!!! :-D
Agreed. I LOVE the random photos!!
The mockup using iBrowse & AWeb looks great. And yes, Voyager goofs the blue bar up top AND the links section above it. 'New Posts' is positioned under 'Links' and 'Gallery'. The blue *is* harsh, but that can be toned down obviously. Maybe make it Workbench 1.3 blue :-)
Overall though, looks great!
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Looks good.
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Looks great. Keep up the good work.
(Might want to take a look at it in IE7 though. The links on the top are all on the left. :roll: )
Robert
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toca180 wrote:
(Might want to take a look at it in IE7 though. The links on the top are all on the left. :roll: )
Robert
This is where we will begin running into problems. Classic Amigas can't understand even basic CSS, while the "td align=right" tag has been depreciated and isn't even supported by IE 7.
What that means is that to get it to look right on both, I've got to use both the td align tag AND the CSS, which both confuses the hell out of browsers AND makes for a slow site.
Wayne
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Wayne wrote: This is where we will begin running into problems. Classic Amigas can't understand even basic CSS, while the "td align=right" tag has been depreciated and isn't even supported by IE 7.
Tell me about it. I work at a web design company. Looks great in everything else I have tried though. :-)
Robert
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I like the current design better. New one looks like its designed by a programmer.
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I know you're more interested in Amiga browsers here, BUT:
Looks good. :-)
Viewed it with Internet Explorer 8.0.6
and Firefox 3.0.10
and Opera 9.6
and Seamonkey 1.07, and 1.1.16 (just realized I had not upgraded in awhile)
The layout seems the same in all browsers, and I don't see any kind of errors.
I like the larger logo--it looks cleaner, sharper, especially against the more vibrant blue.
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Had a brief look via AWeb3.5 on AmigaOS3.9, looks good, didn't see any oddities.
Viewing it on FireFox 3.0.10 currently, more or less the same.
I like the look of it so far.
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Just as a matter of preference it should show top 10 recent posts and hot topics... Otherwise, looks great...
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Looks good on my iPhone and Kaiser (WM6.1).
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trip6 wrote:
Just as a matter of preference it should show top 10 recent posts and hot topics... Otherwise, looks great...
I second that.
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My A1200 isn't online, but it looks good on my PSP.
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Looks good on Firefox 3.5 beta 4.
Don't have a miggy, and my WinUAE setup lacks a browser (why bother, I just play games with it)
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Wayne wrote:
toca180 wrote:
(Might want to take a look at it in IE7 though. The links on the top are all on the left. :roll: )
Robert
This is where we will begin running into problems. Classic Amigas can't understand even basic CSS, while the "td align=right" tag has been depreciated and isn't even supported by IE 7.
What that means is that to get it to look right on both, I've got to use both the td align tag AND the CSS, which both confuses the hell out of browsers AND makes for a slow site.
Wayne
Ok, I'll admit to being a web newbie.
It looks great on my A1200 in IBrowse, very good in Aweb (I like the blue, (but maybe TrueColour shows it better?) but haven't yet tried it on my PC.
But, isn't it possible to have a CSS site that reverts to non-CSS if certain checks don't pass? Or is that too much work?
I'd like to be able to use thew site still on my miggy, but will have to go to the PC if need be. However, I do prefer the miggy any day :crazy:
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Looks nice with firefox and ibrowse :-)
I like the old look, but then again... I almost never like any changes :lol:
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As seen in Ibrowse (http://extropia.co.uk/_temp/mockup.jpg)
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Of course a new design is something that takes time to get used to but this really looks like "klicked together in a SMS in a minute" while the old (current) design really has personality and looks very custom made.
It's a shame it has to go.
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Adz likes :-)
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Being a moderator on a couple of V-Bulletin sites, I have no qualms about using that particular forum software.
We still have problems with spammers but nothing a bit of light moderation can't handle.
Persistent trolls are another problem though and IP banning is not an option due to the shared nature of dynamic IP pools. Banning on range usually ends up us banning thousands of innocent customers of the ISP which owns that range. Filtering known proxies helps weed out attempts at re-registration though.
Basically as you already know there is no watertight spam proof solution.
You can tweak the theme to give the site a unique character to differentiate it from all the other VB sites out there but you still lose the flexibility advantages of a CMS.
Maybe something can be hacked into it to give you the required features.
Your decision though. I appreciate that it is not an easy one to make. I'm sure well get used to whatever route you take for the upgrade.
P.S
If the Auction Ads are not really bringing in any revenue, I would scrap them. They really slow down the loading of this site.
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I'm actually surprised we haven't been hacked. AROS-EXEC is only a a few revision beyond the version of Xoops AO uses. They have been getting hacked about twice a week for the last month. Some kind of trogan code injection into their pages.
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Sorry, I hate new design.
For some things actual code is "funny" now: I use FF 3.0.10 and NoScript filters an illegal XSS... WTF?
OK on Ibrowse with mine A2000 and A4000.
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IMHO changing the site layout is a mistake.
It is a recipe for disaster.
The current website is kinda slick and the best forum layout I've seen so far.
If the site looks as pathetic as the one you just displayed, you will lose patronage and the site will die.
Especially if you force a new sign up.
I don't want this site to die so I am firmly against it.
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There ya have it guys.
BigBen says we should just close it down and call it a day...
Part of the issue of a redesign (aside from it being mandatory) -- and I'm only talking about the graphics here -- is that after the first 8 years, I personally think it's time for a change in how the site looks, not particularly how it functions.
Indeed, after 8 years, I find the current site's theme to be amateurish and extremely boring. This starts with the header and works it's way all the way down to the footer.
I wouldn't necessarily mind re-working the header for the new design, but I don't have the font (for the mac) and since I didn't create the original, I don't have the original piece parts (such as the header background) to play with.
As I recall, Meers did that, and we haven't seen him in years.
Wayne
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@Wayne
I agree totally on the need for the change. Like most of us here, I look for content not necessarily presentation. Sorta like, she has a great personality, but she ain't much to look at.:-D
The Dawg
Note: The mockup looks fine.
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Whilst I agree that a fresh lick of paint would do wonders, I think the current site (viewed in Fx3.5 here) looks more professional.
If there are Smarty templates involved, is it possible to set the templates directory to a different target for recognised legacy browsers? Sure, it's an extra set to maintain, but in the long run, probably easier to do so than trying to do it all in the one template and satisfy every browser and quirks mode in regular circulation.
And the legacy site would render better on some phones.
jJ
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Who cares what it looks like? Surely the important thing right now is for the site to carry on while retaining as much functionality as possible.
Edit - no, functionality is the wrong word. It is more important for the *user base* to be retained.
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moto
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Since you guys are so caught up on being backwards compatible with the classic Amiga, I thought I'd build a header just for you...
(http://www.amiga.org/mockup/header_2.jpg)
Hahahaha...
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The mock up look fine, and the content/user base is the important thing, but don't kid yourself... The current design looks very professional. It's look has held up VERY well.
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According to the poll most people do not want backward compatibility. Perhaps the zealots are just more vocal.
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buzz wrote:
According to the poll most people do not want backward compatibility. Perhaps the zealots are just more vocal.
Absolutely true, and I'm killing myself mentally trying to bend over backwards for them, because I know what a villain they make me out to be any time anything changes.. :)
That being said, I may end up shelving classic compatibility, which really doesn't matter as long as the data and accounts are protected, right?
Wayne
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Wayne wrote:
I may end up shelving classic compatibility, which really doesn't matter as long as the data and accounts are protected, right?
Agreed 100%. And BTW, I really like the topaz header ;-)
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moto
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It looks quite ok, but I really hate the shade of blue in the header...
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I remember when I first saw amiga.org as it looks now, I remember thinking what great care and attention to detail had been taken in it's design. To this day the site has aged gracefully, and looks as good now as it always did.
Back then most sites worked in ibrowse.
But times change, software always needs updating and like the others have said it's only a matter of time until the script kiddies home in on you. Whilst I wouldn't like to see amiga.org go all "web 2.0" (I don't want to have to wait 20 seconds when I mouseover a menu i.e. ebay) I see no reason why it should not use an up-to-date markup.
There is no reason bash your head against a brick wall Wayne, make it so it's easy to apply updates and then focus on the sites content.
Trying to support browsers that can't support themselvs and are no good for anything else will just drain the life out of you that makes this place great. Don't get me wrong, my amiga is staying but the days I fire up ibrowse or aweb are gone as of a couple of years ago.
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It looks quite ok, but I really hate the shade of blue in the header...
I agree. Keep the current header image, do what you want with the rest.
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I like the new mockup, it appears to be viewable on everything from A600s to iPhones, that's good for all for sure. PHP4 is dieing, I still have a server running it but we're moving our main website to Drupal from a custom made system, once that conversion is complete the server goes to Leopard and PHP 4 is history...
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Wayne wrote:
Since you guys are so caught up on being backwards compatible with the classic Amiga, I thought I'd build a header just for you...
(http://www.amiga.org/mockup/header_2.jpg)
Hahahaha...
Probably get slammed for this, but I actually think that is pretty awesome.
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AmigaHeretic wrote:
Probably get slammed for this.
You asked for it... /slam... HERETIC!!!!
:python: :laughing:
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Wayne wrote:
(...)
What that means is that to get it to look right on both, I've got to use both the td align tag AND the CSS, which both confuses the hell out of browsers AND makes for a slow site.
Wayne
This whole subject you raised made me think : The current site is a hell of a GOOD design : It looks good on Miggies AND on brand new iPhones running bleeding edge xhtml rendering engines..! Remind me again why is it that you want to change it ? :) I'm kidding, I read all your related posts
At best, you're going to end up w/ a dual template, a table-based one for Amiga user-agents and a xhtml-kosher (Hallal, if you wish) one for everybody else... Drupal will let you direct your users to user-agenbt defined *themes* but this is a HELL to maintain, I predict.
Much better IMO would be to code the xhtml so semantically correctly that it would make sense even on CSS-impaired browsers, (top-middle-bottom, information flows - BTW table ARE admittable to display table-based content, like forum subject lists) but then A-Users would have to cope w/ the idea that the viewing experience is very different depending on the platform. This is what I would go for, but then again, I don't remember the last time I came here using iBrowse.. I'm going to install it now on UAE to check my latest designs.
One last thing : I REALLY like the current design. The masthead. The bullets. The icons. It's creative, Amiga-y, compact, easy on the eyes. The typographic convention, the color chart, this is lovingly crafted professional work.
If you're going to change it you might as well come with something better ;) And (this is my personal copyrighted content-protected opinion) the new mockup is nowhere near.
One side note : You should do your mockups in a drawing package, *much* simpler for you to adjust things based on feedback. If you don't know it yet may I suggest give inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/) (veeery powerful & simple vector package, kinda like what we waited in vain to get on the Amiga, but I digress) a try, or directly in The Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/).
My point : If you're going to change anything, don't go for a table-based design with CSS hacks, because that's what we have now, and it works wonderfully, bravo. To code this way again *will* eventuelly break the upgrade path of all modern CMSes, and we'll have the same PB in 2, 4 years. Again.
Oh, and Drupal is an excellent choice AFAIC.
Thank you very much Wayne, you're doing a great job running this site.
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AmigaHeretic wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Since you guys are so caught up on being backwards compatible with the classic Amiga, I thought I'd build a header just for you...
(http://www.amiga.org/mockup/header_2.jpg)
Hahahaha...
Probably get slammed for this, but I actually think that is pretty awesome.
I agree, I think it is quite apt :)
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Topaz is rather funny, in a way. :-)
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I like the extreme-bitmapped Topaz header! It's retro-goodness... :elvis:
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Hey Wayne, I have a helpful suggestion for any future work on Amiga.org (when you decide what you're going to do and get rolling with it). :-)
I don't know if you're using Firefox as a browser, or if you already have this Add-On to it, but I suggest the Web Developer toolbar ("adds a menu and a toolbar with various web developer tools). It will validate CSS, HTML, any Feed, Links, Section 508, WAI, etc.
I just ran it on this thread and it showed 18 errors on the page, using the HTML checker. Invalid markup stuff.
You can isolate tables (i.e., display all table borders on the page), etc.
Anyway, I thought if you didn't know of it already (or use it), it might help speed things along when you're working on the new site. :-D