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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: jj on February 29, 2012, 01:56:08 PM

Title: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 01:56:08 PM
Just ordered one.  Seems up to a 30 day wait for them to get another delivery.
 
Model b - £30 nice :)


Adding Links to Website and Ordering Contact Info

(Amiga.org Staff)

Product Website

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Ordering

http://www.raspberrypi.org/contact-us
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on February 29, 2012, 02:13:00 PM
Websites kept timing out... Will have to get one from the next batch :(
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Firedawg on February 29, 2012, 02:13:02 PM
I got on the interested list.  No offer to pre-order as I believe they sold out of the first run. :pissed:
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: hooligan on February 29, 2012, 02:17:12 PM
Its interesting as its cheap.. but really can't think of a use for it. BTW can you buy a case for it.. I understand its just the mobo.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: Firedawg;681868
I got on the interested list. No offer to pre-order as I believe they sold out of the first run. :pissed:

Just kept at it.  Site kept timing out.  I think I managed to get around it by managing to add one to my basket.  Site kept crashing and by time got back in you could only register interest.  But it was still in my basket so ordered it and it said 30 day wait for re-stock.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 03:57:56 PM
Just had email.   Order has been allocated stock :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 04:01:39 PM
Lucky git! Where from?

I have been trying since 6:20 this morning...useless.

I am not sure they handled this the right way though...

They either hyped it or they truly failed to understand that 100,000 people trying to buy the pi would crash two websites...

They sold out 10,000 in two hours but they knew pretty well that there are at least 100,000 people interested...

Anyway I am looking forward to one.

And making a case for it ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 04:04:15 PM
I knew you would be all over case design for one of these babies :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 04:09:13 PM
Premier Farnell or RS?

I have tried both but nothing... :(

I am thinking of using it as a media centre :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 04:13:54 PM
Farnell.  RS was on register interest as soon as I tried 10:00 this morning.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 04:20:22 PM
I'll give it another go, thanks :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on February 29, 2012, 04:26:26 PM
Apparently Farnell sold out straight away.  I don't know how I flooked this.  Must be people who dodnt compete orders so I got theirs :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on February 29, 2012, 05:10:32 PM
RS won't be selling until the end of the week.

Farnell wants to charge a 20 dollar "handling fee".

I'll be waiting (a while) for the stock to hit this side of the pond.

Although, it was fun to follow the twit feed at 0601am GMT this morning and watch as we crippled both farnell and RS with our desparation :).
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on February 29, 2012, 05:13:28 PM
It hasn't come out yet, but my feeling is that when they decided to go with the distribution partner side, the Raspberry Pi folks didn't quite know what they really were getting.  I would have preferred they just sold the 10,000 form their own shop and had a slower ramp up.  More money to their charity.

Quote from: TheDaddy;681876
Lucky git! Where from?

I have been trying since 6:20 this morning...useless.

I am not sure they handled this the right way though...

They either hyped it or they truly failed to understand that 100,000 people trying to buy the pi would crash two websites...

They sold out 10,000 in two hours but they knew pretty well that there are at least 100,000 people interested...

Anyway I am looking forward to one.

And making a case for it ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
I agree...a bit of a FAIL on their part...newbified! :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Pyromania on February 29, 2012, 05:45:27 PM
Looks like I missed the boat getting it as well.

:(
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Daedalus on February 29, 2012, 06:37:04 PM
I think we can safely say that there'll be plenty more made... I missed out too, but I'm happy to wait for a little while until things have stabilised.

I'm delighted to be honest that it's gathered this much momentum for them!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on February 29, 2012, 07:08:51 PM
Hard to go wrong with a £22 computer

(http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/images/smilies/pirates5B15D_th.gif)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: swift240 on February 29, 2012, 07:18:30 PM
I have expressed my Interest in one, but I am thinking at the back of my mind (Hmm i wander Amiga on a Raspberry Pi) But I am glad its Linux thats going on it instead of that robing MS.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on February 29, 2012, 07:53:18 PM
I've tried, but I really can't see the appeal of this thing.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 08:16:17 PM
Quote from: tone007;681899
I've tried, but I really can't see the appeal of this thing.


You might be right...

Some people have even said that children aren't that interested in programming and for a reason, they aren't bothered with what's underneath or inside a machine they just want to use it and play. Time will tell...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Boudicca on February 29, 2012, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;681901
You might be right...

Some people have even said that children aren't that interested in programming and for a reason, they aren't bothered with what's underneath or inside a machine they just want to use it and play. Time will tell...



Playing devils advocate, the far east would buy them to clone/put a case on it / Stick Android on it and get some anime characters kicking ass and sell it back as Air Jordan's. Bling.

Still bought one tho
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: VuData on February 29, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
I missed out this morning but I cant wait to get one and run XBMC on it (and sell the appleTV 2's).
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on February 29, 2012, 09:07:41 PM
Quote from: Boudicca;681902
Playing devils advocate, the far east would buy them to clone/put a case on it / Stick Android on it and get some anime characters kicking ass and sell it back as Air Jordan's. Bling.

Still bought one tho



Have they told you when you will receive yours?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on February 29, 2012, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;681887
It hasn't come out yet, but my feeling is that when they decided to go with the distribution partner side, the Raspberry Pi folks didn't quite know what they really were getting.

Actually, no..
Apparently the Raspberry Pi folks are mad at the distributors..
They apparently tried and tried to warn them about the demand, and the distributors either didn't listen or didn't believe them...

Personally, I'll wait for better availability later...  ;-)

desiv
(I apparently really like the word "apparently".. Hmmm...)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: paul1981 on February 29, 2012, 10:22:16 PM
Quote from: desiv;681909
Actually, no..
Apparently the Raspberry Pi folks are mad at the distributors..
They apparently tried and tried to warn them about the demand, and the distributors either didn't listen or didn't believe them...

Personally, I'll wait for better availability later...  ;-)

desiv
(I apparently really like the word "apparently".. Hmmm...)


It's just been on our national BBC news.  I was quite suprised really, it had a good 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on February 29, 2012, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: tone007;681899
I've tried, but I really can't see the appeal of this thing.


25-35 dollar 700Mhz 256Mb ARM computer the size of a credit card able to be run off 4AA batteries and able to play back 1080P?

I see nothing BUT potential.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on February 29, 2012, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;681917
25-35 dollar 700Mhz 256Mb ARM computer the size of a credit card able to be run off 4AA batteries and able to play back 1080P?

I see nothing BUT potential.
I see AROS ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Mazze on February 29, 2012, 11:00:55 PM
Quote from: bloodline;681918
I see AROS ;)

World domination! I hope that an AROS developer could get that thing. :afro:
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on February 29, 2012, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;681901
Some people have even said that children aren't that interested in programming and for a reason, they aren't bothered with what's underneath or inside a machine they just want to use it and play. Time will tell...
That's a bit of a sweeping assumption - programming is taught so little and so poorly below BA-level college classes that it's difficult to say whether kids actually aren't interested or simply have never had a latent interest properly fed. It's like saying kids aren't interested in reading when all you've got is a shelf full of accounting manuals.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: gunni on February 29, 2012, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: hooligan;681870
BTW can you buy a case for it.. I understand its just the mobo.

Cases are coming with later batches they say. I couldn't get one ordered at 6am this morning, couldn't even get the farnell page 2 hours later. Registered interest on RS eventually, got a dead C64 with keyra that will get a new lease of life as an oversized pi case! :lol:
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Gazbonk on March 01, 2012, 12:00:03 AM
Looks very nice & cheap runs debian 6, file can be downloaded from site 797MB.

This could be a cheap option for a small web server on a bookshelf.

May be a few other options for its use as well as the programming side.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: kedawa on March 01, 2012, 01:10:50 AM
It would be a decent enough platform for plug and play game systems.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on March 01, 2012, 08:05:21 AM
I got one to play aorund with.
 
it was £30 by then time you added VAT but still.  £30 for what as I see as a piece of history and a very interesting platform to mess around with.
 
It is powered from a mini usb port.  Everyone has these leads for their phones these days.  You  cna basically carry this thing around anywhere with you
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 01, 2012, 10:43:13 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;681920
That's a bit of a sweeping assumption - programming is taught so little and so poorly below BA-level college classes that it's difficult to say whether kids actually aren't interested or simply have never had a latent interest properly fed. It's like saying kids aren't interested in reading when all you've got is a shelf full of accounting manuals.



That is what an adviser to the government said, he might be right, let's hope he is not.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 01, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;681917
25-35 dollar 700Mhz 256Mb ARM computer the size of a credit card able to be run off 4AA batteries and able to play back 1080P?

I see nothing BUT potential.


Ho hum. http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Motorola+Atrix+(TM)+2+(Refurbished)&q_sku=sku5580225#fbid=bvU-6q8AWxi
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 01, 2012, 04:26:57 PM
Quote from: tone007;681968
Ho hum. http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Motorola+Atrix+(TM)+2+(Refurbished)&q_sku=sku5580225#fbid=bvU-6q8AWxi (http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Motorola+Atrix+%28TM%29+2+%28Refurbished%29&q_sku=sku5580225#fbid=bvU-6q8AWxi)

From that link:
No Commitment Pricing(New)                                                                                                                                       (http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/sharedSegments/noCommitPricingPopup.jsp)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           $449.99                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
2-yr Contract Price                                             $99.99                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
Refurb Discount                                                                                                                                                                                - $99.98

So, a $35 device is "Ho hum" compared to a $450 device (that can be had for only $100 with a 2 year contract or free for a refurb with a 2 year contract...

er..  You're trying to prove the point that it's a great device/deal then???  ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 01, 2012, 04:29:11 PM
You left off the .01 final cost of the phone but regardless, "Ho hum," because there are plenty of people walking around with devices more powerful than this in their pockets.

Cheap doesn't make it awesome.

edit: the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of a $99 Android tablet I had, minus the screen, exact specs.  What's a touchscreen go for, about $60-$70?

Sounds like that tablet wasn't a bad deal either.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on March 01, 2012, 04:51:42 PM
Yes, it's an Android tablet without the touchscreen and wifi.  But Android doesn't encourage programming, it encourages surfing.  Yes, you can put a keyboard on it but people psychologically see it as a tablet.  They aren't going to think about programming.  Android isn't designed to be developed on, it's designed to be developed for.

(http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/images/smilies/pirates5B15D_th.gif)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 01, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: tone007;681970
You left off the .01 final cost of the phone but regardless,

No I didn't, I just rounded down.

Quote from: desiv
or free for a refurb with a 2 year contract...

And free (or $0.01) "WITH A CONTRACT" is not even close to free...

Yes, it is closer to a cheap tablet.
But my cheap tablet (which I love) doesn't connect to my TV.

It's a different target device....

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 01, 2012, 06:04:49 PM
Quote from: tone007;681970
You left off the .01 final cost of the phone but regardless, "Ho hum," because there are plenty of people walking around with devices more powerful than this in their pockets.

Cheap doesn't make it awesome.
No, but cheap makes it accessible, and that's entirely the stated point of the project. Tablets and smartphones are designed for media cattle to click through movies and Facebook, not to allow kids to learn programming. For that purpose your average tablet is about as useful as an Etch-A-Sketch, and quite a bit pricier.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 01, 2012, 06:41:11 PM
I don't see the point of this thing. I'd bet money most of these will just wind up collecting dust after getting a weeks worth of being messed around with. Kids are not hurting for computers (in developed countries anyway). To the average kid, this thing will be about as interesting as a Chia Pet once the novelty wears off.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: HenryCase on March 01, 2012, 06:54:47 PM
Quote from: koaftder;681998
I don't see the point of this thing. I'd bet money most of these will just wind up collecting dust after getting a weeks worth of being messed around with. Kids are not hurting for computers (in developed countries anyway). To the average kid, this thing will be about as interesting as a Chia Pet once the novelty wears off.


Depends on your market. In terms of a cheap PC for education, this gives kids something they can experiment with programming on, and that can become part of the school curriculum (therefore it won't get dusty as they'll be doing homework with it).

As for the general population, if you're not interesting in building something with it, then the most obvious use is as a cheap HTPC. If you've not played with one before, then perhaps you'll change your mind when you do. Recommend checking out XBMC. XBMC can do more than I could reasonably hope to succintly summarise, but to get a feel for what it feels like to use a highly polished media centre, try watching this (this is just one skin for XBMC, there are others):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLzdLOO3sYI
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: maffoo on March 01, 2012, 07:03:21 PM
I managed to order one of these from Farnell last night by using searching by the product code (2081185.) I thought it would come up with an error at some point, but it let me place the order :) The projected delivery date is the end of April.

I have no idea if they will be able to get it to me by then, but it's worth a try :)

What's annoying me about the whole thing at the moment is the fact that people are already putting their preordered Raspberry Pi on Ebay at massive markups (there's one on there for £99 at the moment :pissed: )
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: dammy on March 01, 2012, 10:02:25 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;681917
25-35 dollar 700Mhz 256Mb ARM computer the size of a credit card able to be run off 4AA batteries and able to play back 1080P?

I see nothing BUT potential.


Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 01, 2012, 10:18:25 PM
Quote from: dammy;682021
Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11


It's never been publicised enough. The pi people have made a lot of noise, and they got the bbc behind who yesterday gave them 2mins of air.

It's all about the hype.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 01, 2012, 10:39:54 PM
Quote from: dammy;682021
Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11


The Daddy is partially right, for sure on the marketing.  I know this is a community used to dropping three figures on something as banal as a network card or a USB card, but I'll throw 35 bucks at all sorts of things way before I'll throw a hundred.  I'll take risk with a 35 dollar thing that I wouldn't for 125.  I don't think it will be a great XBMC platform, but I DO think it will be a great platform for a low power controller for homebrew projects.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 01, 2012, 10:47:10 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682027
The Daddy is partially right, for sure on the marketing.  I know this is a community used to dropping three figures on something as banal as a network card or a USB card, but I'll throw 35 bucks at all sorts of things way before I'll throw a hundred.  I'll take risk with a 35 dollar thing that I wouldn't for 125.  I don't think it will be a great XBMC platform, but I DO think it will be a great platform for a low power controller for homebrew projects.


Hype it and they'll come... :)

Wait until next week when the ipad 3 comes out, queues of believers from dusk till dawn, ready to queue for hours on end, with a coffee (usually a Starbuck), in the rain, sun or snow, to immolate themselves on the Apple altar, to be the first one to hold a slimmer and lighter ipad (why don't they wait until next year when a slimmer and lighter one comes out) and show it to the cameras...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 01, 2012, 10:51:38 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682027
The Daddy is partially right, for sure on the marketing.  I know this is a community used to dropping three figures on something as banal as a network card or a USB card, but I'll throw 35 bucks at all sorts of things way before I'll throw a hundred.  I'll take risk with a 35 dollar thing that I wouldn't for 125.  I don't think it will be a great XBMC platform, but I DO think it will be a great platform for a low power controller for homebrew projects.
I agree. My "serious consideration" range is somewhere around $50-60, so the Pi falls well within the range of "eh, why not" while the Efika (in either form) is something I'd want to budget for.

Use-wise, I've been toying with the idea of hobby OS development for a while, so I think (now that they've begun seriously releasing development information) that this might be a good platform to experiment with that on...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: mongo on March 02, 2012, 12:14:37 AM
Quote from: dammy;682021
Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11


The guys who did the Raspberry Pi Fedora Remix used some of them in their build farm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWE6qF7pIM
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Iggy on March 02, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
Quote from: dammy;682021
Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11


Well, not enough memory (only 512MB).
A slow A8 processor.
Little to recommend it over a cheap tablet.

What else don't you understand?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on March 02, 2012, 09:09:08 AM
What you dont understand iggy.   You are totally missing the goals of this device.  But you are american so you probably do not know about the history of the bbc micro and what it achieved in and for the british education system
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 02, 2012, 10:01:35 AM
Quote from: Iggy;682050
Well, not enough memory (only 512MB).
A slow A8 processor.
Little to recommend it over a cheap tablet.

What else don't you understand?
You are bitching about the Raspberry Pi... But you should consider that you are arguing about an education device built by a small charitable organisation for the purpose of teaching British school children to write computer programs! It's not mean for anything else :)

The fact that there is pent up demand for a £25 computer you can plug into your TV is just a bonus ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: HenryCase on March 02, 2012, 10:16:24 AM
Quote from: bloodline;682114
You are bitching about the Raspberry Pi...


Actually, Iggy was referring to the Efika MX (he quoted Dammy in his post).
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 02, 2012, 10:19:58 AM
Lol! That will teach me to jump into a thread :)

But my point sill stands... Now just directed to everyone in general.

I guess we, as Amiga users always knew there was a market for a £25 computer you can plug into your TV... That's not hype, that just clear sense :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: gertsy on March 02, 2012, 11:02:14 AM
ohhh Acorns live...!
Can u play Elite?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on March 02, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
Quote from: HenryCase;682119
Actually, Iggy was referring to the Efika MX (he quoted Dammy in his post).

 
In that case I apologise Iggy.  I would agree that the Efika  is pointless :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on March 02, 2012, 02:09:07 PM
The BBC Micro was introduced three decades ago, a different world.  Kids nowadays have tablets, iPads, iPods, Smart Phones competing for attention. As well as Laptops and game consoles.  But all of this devices are consumer devices.  You buy,beg or borrow software and run it to view the world.  Raspberry PI is designed to teach them to program.  

(http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/images/smilies/pirates5B15D_th.gif)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 02, 2012, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: persia;682144
Raspberry PI is designed to teach them to program.  


Why program this thing when there are real computers running Linux to program on?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: tone007;682146
Why program this thing when there are real computers running Linux to program on?


Take a class of 30 kids.......  yes, cost.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on March 02, 2012, 02:46:53 PM
The one thing that would have been better is to provide an environment for developing Android apps.  I think it would have been fun for kids to develop an app and install it on their phone or their friends phones....
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 02:49:52 PM
Quote from: tone007;682146
Why program this thing when there are real computers running Linux to program on?


How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers. Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 02, 2012, 03:26:43 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682150
Take a class of 30 kids.......  yes, cost.


Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.

Quote from: Linde;682152
How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers. Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.


It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: tone007;682155
Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.


One word for you on that score: Ergonomics!

I for one would not be happy with my kids using a netbook for hours.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 02, 2012, 03:35:50 PM
Depending on the size of the kid, the ergonomics could be perfect! ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 03:48:36 PM
Quote from: tone007;682155
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.


To be fair, the situation has changed. This thing is equivalent to a typical PC in terms of what language compilers and interpreters it can run. Add to that OpenGL compatible hardware and you can be sure that speed/RAM won't be the bottleneck for what children will be able to learn using them. You won't be stuck running qbasic or some modern day equivalent, but Ruby, Python, JS, C, C++, PHP, and exactly whatever the real world is using.

A full-fledged Linux system with the most widely used processor architecture... For a price low enough to realistically buy one for every student, you won't get much closer to the "real world."
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 02, 2012, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: tone007;682155
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.
Feh.

If you can't do it on 700MHz and 256MB of RAM, it isn't worth doing.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 03:53:16 PM
Quote from: Linde;682152
How exactly isn't this a "real" computer? Not all children have their own personal computers.
This thing requires more than just the Pi.  When you add up the other crap you'll need to use it, is it really that great?

If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.

Plus once its all setup, you have a goony little board with no case (or a case when they have them), with wires on all sides.  Great for hamfisted kids to sit near and use.  

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.  

I picture cake frosting and crap spilled on these.  Kids are clumsy and sloppy.   Slap them in front of some hulking PC case.  It's safer.


Quote
Access to a personal computer only gets you so far when your use of it is restricted in various ways, especially when it comes to programming.
I'm sorry, how are you restricted on a personal computer when it comes to programming?  If you've got Linux (free), a keyboard, and at least 1 finger, you aren't restricted.  Hell you don't even need fingers really.  Toes are fine.

This thing is more restricting than a personal computer.  It supports what, Perl, Python, C, and BBC BASIC?  No C++? No C#?  No Java?  THAT SOUNDS RESTRICTING.

They'd be better off sticking these kids on Linux boxes with endless possibilities.  



Quote from: Tripitaka;682156
One word for you on that score: Ergonomics!
I for one would not be happy with my kids using a netbook for hours.

Meanwhile they're probably slumped over coloring or playing handheld games, or slouched down so far in their seats they might as well be laying down. :)

and who's to say these things are going to be ergonomical?  It's all up to the end user's setup.

What if this things on a floor with a keyboard (either on the floor or in their lap), and then it's wired to a TV that forces the kid to sit and stare straight up like its the front row of a movie theatre?

Plus, you can be ergonomical with a netbook (unless you're some 350+ pound blob with poor posture and no desk room).

Quote from: commodorejohn;682160
Feh.

If you can't do it on 700MHz and 256MB of RAM, it isn't worth doing.

if you can't do it in assembly, it isn't worth doing.


now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.
 

I think this thing's called the Pi because its a 3.14/10
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 03:54:00 PM
As for the price of peripherals. Worst case is that you have a student who has neither a PC monitor or a TV monitor. A TV monitor can be had new for ~$30 and a basic keyboard goes for what, $4?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: tone007;682155
Lets see.

You'll probably need a keyboard, monitor and mouse, and maybe even a case.  I can't see the whole setup being too much less than $200.  Buy the kids netbooks and be done with it.

no, you do not need a monitor.  You need a TV.  Keyboards and mice can be had for free, or at the very most 14-15 dollars for a new kbd/mouse combo from the wal-mart types.  Most households have a TV.

Quote
It's about as real as the 8088s and 286s I was learning QBasic programming on back in high school while the rest of the world had moved on to Pentiums and more powerful programming languages.  Might as well give them what the real world is using.

Well, I'm not sure what to say to this.  ARM on mobile is the future for  a large segment of computing.  But, hey, you see no value - that is for sure your prerogative.  My CS department sees value in them - a testing developing platform they can line item as a lab fee for every CS student.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on March 02, 2012, 03:55:31 PM
Quote from: Linde;682162
A TV monitor can be had new for ~$30 and a basic keyboard goes for what, $4?


"Here kid, don't mind the blurry letters."  Love it.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
I think this thing's called the Pi because its a 3.14/10


Ha!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 04:05:03 PM
I am baffled by the dislike bordering on hate.  I, for one, am excited about it for the many reasons stated above.  Some people aren't - I get that.  I'm a little bit saddened by the dismissal of young british kids' intellect or sense of curiosity as well.  If they are anything like young American kids, there are more coding type nerds out there than you think, with parents more willing to let the kid go nuts on a 35 dollar computer than the household one.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 04:06:46 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682161
This thing requires more than just the Pi.  When you add up the other crap you'll need to use it, is it really that great?
See my last post :)

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.
Who said you need a HDMI capable display?

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
Plus once its all setup, you have a goony little board with no case (or a case when they have them), with wires on all sides.  Great for hamfisted kids to sit near and use.  

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.
Good point, though at $35 it's not a great loss for the school.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
I'm sorry, how are you restricted on a personal computer when it comes to programming?  If you've got Linux (free), a keyboard, and at least 1 finger, you aren't restricted.  Hell you don't even need fingers really.  Toes are fine.
I don't think what I was trying to say came through to you! What I am saying is that while most kids have ACCESS to a computer, quite a few don't have their own. I don't know, but libraries, parents and whatever are usually pretty restrictive in what they allow you to do with computers. I'm not sure that poor John Doe's Microsoft-Office-and-youtube dad will be happy if his starts mucking about with installing compiler environments, and I'm quite sure that he won't be happy to have his computer occupied all day.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
This thing is more restricting than a personal computer.  It supports what, Perl, Python, C, and BBC BASIC?  No C++? No C#?  No Java?  THAT SOUNDS RESTRICTING.
No C++, no Java and no C#? Where did you get that idea? I'm getting more and more confident in the fact that you have no idea of what you are talking about. It's a Linux system, not some sort of sandboxed toy OS.

Quote from: Arkhan;682161
They'd be better off sticking these kids on Linux boxes with endless possibilities.
Yes, they should give Linux boxes to all k... wait, isn't this what the Raspberry Pi is? Are you that clueless or are you leaving out some aspect of your argument that gives it some sense?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682161
now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.


Python is hardly assembler.  Neither is Java, C, or Ruby.  RTFA before you jump off the deep end.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 02, 2012, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682161

OOPS I SPILLED CAPRI SUN ON MY RASPBERRY PI.  

I picture cake frosting and crap spilled on these.  Kids are clumsy and sloppy.   Slap them in front of some hulking PC case.  It's safer.

That's actually a plus for the Pi there..

I'm sure, when it gets to kids, there will be cases..  So I don't see spills really being a problem..

But it's possible..  
So, ruin a $35 Pi or a $200 netbook/PC..  Which is easier to replace?

Slap them in front of a hulking PC case and it gets knocked off the desk (I used to (man, was it that long ago, I'm getting old) work for a school district, it happened a lot- not daily, but it happened much more than we wanted) and again...
Replace a $35 Pi (which you wouldn't have to most likely..  Things that small falling off of a desk, most likely no issues...), no biggie.
Even if it's just re-seating cards to get the PC working, that's a service call to the help desk, down time, tech time...

Done right (which I'm sure it won't be), it could be a really neat setup..  ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 04:08:22 PM
Quote from: tone007;682164
"Here kid, don't mind the blurry letters."  Love it.


When you juxtapose it to not having a monitor or a computer at all it doesn't look that stupid.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on March 02, 2012, 04:11:17 PM
Personally I would waste 20 cents on a netbook, dead end technology, not tablets not notebooks.  They're getting harder to find in stores now too.

But why the hate for a device that is designed to get kids curious about programming.  If it works it's a good thing, if it doesn't, well you've just wasted the cost of an Indian takeaway....
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 04:15:40 PM
Quote from: persia;682174
Personally I would waste 20 cents on a netbook, dead end technology, not tablets not notebooks.  They're getting harder to find in stores now too.

But why the hate for a device that is designed to get kids curious about programming.  If it works it's a good thing, if it doesn't, well you've just wasted the cost of an Indian takeaway....


I'm wondering if it isn't Anglophobia.  Where do those uppity British get off building a 35 dollar SOC that lots of people are excited about?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on March 02, 2012, 04:17:53 PM
These are the first batches to get developers / teachers etc hand on before its released to schools in cases etc.
 
I think people are being very narrow minded, who would have though it in the amiga community.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: JJ;682179
These are the first batches to get developers / teachers etc hand on before its released to schools in cases etc.
 
I think people are being very narrow minded, who would have though it in the amiga community.


'Ere now.  Shouldn't you be off doing more traditional British things?  These here fancy electronic doo-dads are awfully complimacated...lawn gnomes and labor riots - that's all dem brits is good fer!

sorry about that - I'm in a queer mood.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 04:48:18 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682170
Python is hardly assembler. Neither is Java, C, or Ruby. RTFA before you jump off the deep end.
I was quoting another age-old programming quote (If you can't do it in assembly it isn't worth doing) to go with the ARM/256 RAM quote, and then moving onto a real point.  The two are not related as indicated by the "now, really," and the "get with the times".

I can tell you're eager to wave your "huruhrur I'm a CS major" card around.  Stop.  

Quote from: Linde;682169
Who said you need a HDMI capable display?
Anyone who doesn't want to use a composite output for a computer?  Ever try programming on a standard def tv?  Screw ergonomics, these kids will be blind by the age of 12.   HDMI (crisp visuals) or jank ass composite (blurrylolol!).  HMMMMM.  Tough choice.

Quote
Good point, though at $35 it's not a great loss for the school.
When enough of them get broke that they could've just bought some more versatile computers...

Quote
I don't think what I was trying to say came through to you! What I am saying is that while most kids have ACCESS to a computer, quite a few don't have their own. I don't know, but libraries, parents and whatever are usually pretty restrictive in what they allow you to do with computers. I'm not sure that poor John Doe's Microsoft-Office-and-youtube dad will be happy if his starts mucking about with installing compiler environments, and I'm quite sure that he won't be happy to have his computer occupied all day.
Parents are retarded.  So the answer is to give kids crippled machines?  Cool!    

It will be like taking Timmy off his Ninja Turtles huffy complete with training wheels, slapping him on a Kawasaki Crotch Rocket, and watching him slam into a wall, full tilt.  Blood everywhere.  Teeth removed, bones broken.

Schools can provide programming computers.  Parents who aren't stuck in the 1940s can provide real computers.  

Quote
No C++, no Java and no C#? Where did you get that idea? I'm getting more and more confident in the fact that you have no idea of what you are talking about. It's a Linux system, not some sort of sandboxed toy OS.
From Wikipedia: This board is intended to run operating systems based on the Linux kernel, including, but not exclusive to Linux[2] and to support the Python programming language,[11][12] BBC BASIC,[13] C[11] and Perl.[11]

So, no, I am not clueless.  Just reading the information I see.  The thing comes with Kids Ruby, Scratch, and BASIC , I think?

Can anyone confirm otherwise that this thing supports C++ and C#?  I sure doubt it supports C# in any good form.

Quote
Yes, they should give Linux boxes to all k... wait, isn't this what the Raspberry Pi is? Are you that clueless or are you leaving out some aspect of your argument that gives it some sense?
This thing is far from being a fullblown linux box.   Linux based != Linux.  It's got some hacked up Linux based OS running off an SD card.  It ain't like you're going to be able to hit up the repo browser and grab tons of packages to install.

Are you sure you aren't the clueless one?



If I wanted a kid to get excited about programming, I'd sit him down in front of a Linux machine with some Galaga clone in C, and show him how that works.  

Games are how you get kids excited.  Not goony little boxes that make Amigafans hard in the pants.

This thing has a long way to go before it would be useful in my book.  I'd rather spend the extra money on a real computer for a kid, so he/she can learn more than just programming.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682187
wharrgarbl


Holy crap, you are an idiot.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 02, 2012, 04:53:08 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682161
If they have an HDMI capable display and no personal computer, their family needs to rethink priorities and get them into technology instead of HD television.
It's DVI via HDMI, you can hook it to basically any LCD made in the past seven years with a $5 adapter. I find DVI monitors in piles at the recycle center, for God's sake, it's not like you're required to shell out for a wall TV.

Quote
if you can't do it in assembly, it isn't worth doing.
I would point out that there's nothing you can't do in assembler.

Quote
now , really, its 2012.  This kind of thinking is just stupid.  Stop being stupid and get with the times.
I think not. The best thing that could happen to software right now is a new generation of programmers who learned on a machine with 1/8 to 1/4 the power of base-level desktop systems. It's like all the demoscene coders who went on to be game programmers - those skills at doing lots with little stay with you the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 04:58:16 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682188
Holy crap, you are an idiot.

awww why is that Bilgey.

Is it because I don't take your penis waving CS department nonsense as fact/law?  The fact that you condense things into whaargarbl means to me that you are too stupid to come up with any kind of reply.


and John, what you're saying is we should force kids to learn assembly.  I agree.

Except, we'd have like 3 successful students out of 200.

At least you can DVI
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 05:00:52 PM
OK, so I just looked on ebay and found an HDMI to VGA lead, a 15" TFT monitor, keyboard and mouse all on buy it now for a grand total of £18. With the Pi that's £40 total and all I need is a case. Oh look, this external floppy case in my cupboard is big enough, a little hacking and I'm done...

..as for kids being messy, pah! My kids have never spilt anything on my PC stuff. I have and my cat is a menace, but the kids, never. If it's an issue, mount the Pi on the wall and get a waterproof keyboard, job done.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682192
OK, so I just looked on ebay and found an HDMI to VGA lead, a 15" TFT monitor, keyboard and mouse all on buy it now for a grand total of £18. With the Pi that's £40 total and all I need is a case. Oh look, this external floppy case in my cupboard is big enough, a little hacking and I'm done...

..as for kids being messy, pah! My kids have never spilt anything on my PC stuff. I have and my cat is a menace, but the kids, never. If it's an issue, mount the Pi on the wall and get a waterproof keyboard, job done.

what about shipping?

And for that price I can craigslist a real computer with better specs and pick it up locally.

just because your kids aren't clumsy dip****s doesn't mean others aren't, anyway.


and there will be at least one fat kid that tries to eat it when you tell him the name of the machine.

HUHUH I LIKE PIEEE!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 05:07:00 PM
@ you know who.

Why the name calling? Manners cost nothing, if you can't argue your case and remain civil you just make yourself look stupid. A well reasoned argument requires no such childishness.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682194
what about shipping?

And for that price I can craigslist a real computer with better specs and pick it up locally.

just because your kids aren't clumsy dip****s doesn't mean others aren't, anyway.


and there will be at least one fat kid that tries to eat it when you tell him the name of the machine.

HUHUH I LIKE PIEEE!


That included shipping! Granted the TFT was a local pick up.

Why so little faith in children?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 05:09:27 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682191
awww why is that Bilgey.

Is it because I don't take your penis waving CS department nonsense as fact/law?  The fact that you condense things into whaargarbl means to me that you are too stupid to come up with any kind of reply.


and John, what you're saying is we should force kids to learn assembly.  I agree.

Except, we'd have like 3 successful students out of 200.

At least you can DVI


Nobody was waving any CS penis around as fact/law - that was you.  Mentioning that my CS department would be willing to lab fee a 35 dollar computer is hardly pointing out that I am some super geek whom all words should be obeyed.  I did condense your drivel to that, because it is drivel. You aren't making any salient point, you are just attacking people personally, so I returned the sentiment.

Seriously, what is your problem?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 02, 2012, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682191
and John, what you're saying is we should force kids to learn assembly.  I agree.

Except, we'd have like 3 successful students out of 200.
I never said any such thing. I just said that people who bag on assembly language would do well to remember that ultimately every single toolchain and library for every single high-level language is only a tool to write assembler for people who can't or won't do it themselves.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 05:21:04 PM
Some of you may find this of interest (throws petrol on the fire):

http://elinux.org/RPi_Programming
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 05:22:42 PM
Who's calling who names now?  I called someone stupid, but mostly in jest.  I hope commodorejohn realized that.

John, I actually think kids should learn assembly and hexadecimal before they become rebellious jackoffs that get too fixated on Java to ever learn anything useful.   :)



Quote from: Tripitaka;682196
That included shipping! Granted the TFT was a local pick up.
Not bad.   But that's still like 130 USD, which could buy a pretty nice PC off craigslist...

Quote
Why so little faith in children?
Because they're learning.  This usually involves breaking stuff and causing problems because they don't know any better.


Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682197
Nobody was waving any CS penis around as fact/law - that was you. Mentioning that my CS department would be willing to lab fee a 35 dollar computer is hardly pointing out that I am some super geek whom all words should be obeyed. I did condense your drivel to that, because it is drivel. You aren't making any salient point, you are just attacking people personally, so I returned the sentiment.
It's drivel because you say so.  Not because it is.  I've backed my statements on the Pi up with information found on the Pi's site, and other sites.  

If you can't comprehend what I have said enough to make counterpoints, then maybe you should learn how to read and try again.  Dismissing everything as drivel/whraaaarharbarbarbaral (that picture is hilarious) that disagrees with what you say, means you suck at arguing/debating and should kindly leave the internet until you learn how to play.

and if you can't handle it because it's not written like some frikkin thesis, boo hoo, it's the internet, not the knowledge olympics.

Quote
Seriously, what is your problem?
Currently?  You! :D





That RPi link from Trip up there is interesting.  I wonder why they don't state more of that elsewhere to remove any doubt.  Looks like Wikipedia needs their **** updated.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 05:28:59 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682203
Not bad.   But that's still like 130 USD,

40.00 GBP = 63.4156 USD at current exchange rate

Quote from: Arkhan;682203
Because they're learning.

Err.... odd, I thought we never stopped learning.

Time for me to sod off for a few hours, I got stuff to paint.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682187
Anyone who doesn't want to use a composite output for a computer?  Ever try programming on a standard def tv?  Screw ergonomics, these kids will be blind by the age of 12.   HDMI (crisp visuals) or jank ass composite (blurrylolol!).  HMMMMM.  Tough choice.

The choice is obvious to those who are able to choose.

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
Parents are retarded.  So the answer is to give kids crippled machines?  Cool!

Crippled in what sense?

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
It will be like taking Timmy off his Ninja Turtles huffy complete with training wheels, slapping him on a Kawasaki Crotch Rocket, and watching him slam into a wall, full tilt.  Blood everywhere.  Teeth removed, bones broken.

Yes, you make a very VALID and INTERESTING point, idiot. :D

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
Schools can provide programming computers.  Parents who aren't stuck in the 1940s can provide real computers.

Whether you think it's ridiculous or not, the problem exists and isn't going to solve itself.

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
From Wikipedia: This board is intended to run operating systems based on the Linux kernel, including, but not exclusive to Linux[2] and to support the Python programming language,[11][12] BBC BASIC,[13] C[11] and Perl.[11]

So, no, I am not clueless.  Just reading the information I see.  The thing comes with Kids Ruby, Scratch, and BASIC , I think?

Oh, you are able to read information you see! A useless skill if you are not able to draw logical conclusions from it, though. It comes with a Fedora Linux distribution with the things you mentioned preinstalled. An Arch Linux ARM ditribution is soon to follow, if you are too hardcore for Fedora.

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
Can anyone confirm otherwise that this thing supports C++ and C#?  I sure doubt it supports C# in any good form.

It supports C++ via the GNU toolchain like any linux system. C# in "any good form?" How about a full language implementation? It's called Mono. You have no clue about Linux, but you sure know how to paint yourself into a corner.

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
This thing is far from being a fullblown linux box.   Linux based != Linux.  It's got some hacked up Linux based OS running off an SD card.  It ain't like you're going to be able to hit up the repo browser and grab tons of packages to install.

Again, you are wading through things you don't understand. Since when is Fedora a "hacked up" Linux based OS? There is no "true" linux OS; everything is Linux *based* as Linux is not an operating system in itself. Fedora is a full-blown Linux distribution in every valid sense of the word, though. It's customizable and open down to rewriting and recompiling the kernel if you wish.

Quote from: Arkhan;682187
Are you sure you aren't the clueless one?

Yes, I am pretty sure. I use both ARM and x86 based linux distributions every day, and since you are asking I might as well mention that I am a professional C programmer. I do know a thing or two about both Linux and programming.


Quote from: Arkhan;682187
If I wanted a kid to get excited about programming, I'd sit him down in front of a Linux machine with some Galaga clone in C, and show him how that works.

What stops anyone from doing this with a Raspberry Pi?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 05:47:42 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682203
Who's calling who names now?  I called someone stupid, but mostly in jest.  I hope commodorejohn realized that.

how was he supposed to realize that, exactly?  maybe throw a few more smileys at the end like Franko used to.

Quote
John, I actually think kids should learn assembly and hexadecimal before they become rebellious jackoffs that get too fixated on Java to ever learn anything useful.   :)

there ya go!  smilies make any asinine statement better!

Quote
Not bad.   But that's still like 130 USD, which could buy a pretty nice PC off craigslist...

You're absolutely right - those british kids should be on the cragslist buying used computers with more oomph and practicality.

Quote
It's drivel because you say so.  Not because it is.  I've backed my statements on the Pi up with information found on the Pi's site, and other sites.  

No, you haven't.  You have been ranting about how stupid the raspberry pi is and how stupid little british children are and berating your fellow board members as stupid.

Quote
If you can't comprehend what I have said enough to make counterpoints, then maybe you should learn how to read and try again.  Dismissing everything as drivel/whraaaarharbarbarbaral (that picture is hilarious) that disagrees with what you say, means you suck at arguing/debating and should kindly leave the internet until you learn how to play.

OK, moving on..  

Quote
and if you can't handle it because it's not written like some frikkin thesis, boo hoo, it's the internet, not the knowledge olympics.

Well, now a salient point, if stated flippantly.  It IS the knowledge olympics, actually.  when one decides to jump into a discussion about some topic, it behooves them to actually read up on the topic, considering that most of your statements about the Pi can be refuted by clicking here:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

So, until you decide to actually educate yourself on what the Raspberri Pi is, instead of spreading false information about its cost and its capabilities, or until you actually PROVE what you are saying with actual links, facts, etc.. I am going to stick by my assertion that you are nothing but an idiot with no knowledge concerning the topic at hand.

UPDATE:
Quote
That RPi link from Trip up there is interesting. I wonder why they don't state more of that elsewhere to remove any doubt. Looks like Wikipedia needs their **** updated.

You mean besides the wiki dedicated to Raspberry Pi coding?  I am guessing that is because they assume you know how to operate a keyboard and a search engine.  Perhaps they assume too much.

When we want to know all about crappy PC Engine ports or god awful homebrew games like Atlantean, we'll be the first in line to hear what you have to say.  Until then, go finish your thesis, drink a coffee, and pound sand.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 02, 2012, 06:09:48 PM
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.

Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively overblown.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682204
40.00 GBP = 63.4156 USD at current exchange rate
I thought you said 80GBP, lol.  Are you sure you said 40?  50$ can get a decent computer still, I bet!  

Quote
Crippled in what sense?
I dunno, it's a tiny little goonbox with crapass specs.  That's crippled in my book.  

Quote
Yes, you make a very VALID and INTERESTING point, idiot.
Whoaaa no name calling dude, people will get angry! Easy.  There are crybabies afoot.

Quote
Whether you think it's ridiculous or not, the problem exists and isn't going to solve itself.
Right.  However, I think there are better solutions.  Ignorant parents suck.  Especially since most parents suck at computers and screw them up (and then blame the kid who barely uses it)


Quote
It supports C++ via the GNU toolchain like any linux system. C# in "any good form?" How about a full language implementation? It's called Mono. You have no clue about Linux, but you sure know how to paint yourself into a corner.
Please, lets drop the condescending HURHUR you dunno nothin' crap.  It's getting none of us anywhere.

I use linux daily (Zenwalk and Fedora).  I've even got a frigging Minix install still.  Mono blows.  The good form of C# is all the M$ related nonsense.

Plus this *is* all Linux stuff.  Linux is not really user friendly, especially to kids who generally have short attention spans and are impatient.

Quote
Again, you are wading through things you don't understand. Since when is Fedora a "hacked up" Linux based OS? There is no "true" linux OS; everything is Linux *based* as Linux is not an operating system in itself. Fedora is a full-blown Linux distribution in every valid sense of the word, though. It's customizable and open down to rewriting and recompiling the kernel if you wish.
I was under the impression these things came with goofy little dumbed down Linux OS's that aren't exactly full of all the features you'd want, out of box. I don't expect a little kid to be savvy enough to start adding things he needs/wants to one of these.  Nor do I expect most staff at a school.   I drew this conclusion from reading the wikipedia entry AND the RPi wiki.  It sounds like they've got Linux going on it, but it isn't full-blown.  As expected from some crap running off an SD card.

But, what you are saying then is, these can run the same full blown Fedora install that I have installed right here?  With all the fixins?  

and still, it's a fairly low powered machine.  I sure hope the thing is snappy.  I remember putting Fedora on a 1ghz 256mb machine, and even with XFCE, the thing was pretty damn sluggish.

Everyone is approaching this from a seasoned developer standpoint.  Try putting yourself in a clueless little kids shoes.  These aren't the PROGRAMMING YOUR COMPUTER IN BASIC days where a happy little computer cartoon on the cover tells you all about how to PEEK and POKE and make pacman in a weekend.

This is a cluster****.  It's modern computing.  

Quote
Yes, I am pretty sure. I use both ARM and x86 based linux distributions every day, and since you are asking I might as well mention that I am a professional C programmer. I do know a thing or two about both Linux and programming.
Me too.  I also program in asm.  and C++ and C# (though C# is pretty annoying.)  




Now, onto Mr. Tons of Fun.

Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682207
how was he supposed to realize that, exactly? maybe throw a few more smileys at the end like Franko used to.
I miss franko.  He understands how2forum.

Quote
there ya go! smilies make any asinine statement better!
What's wrong with teaching kids assembly and hex?  It doesn't seem that farfetched.  If they can count in base 10, they can count in base 16.  Christ, the kids are stupid, but they aren't that stupid!

Quote
You're absolutely right - those british kids should be on the cragslist buying used computers with more oomph and practicality.
Yeah they should be buying these off the internet with their parents bank information! ;3   Parents can go nab used computers for their kids and stop holding them back from the modern world.  We don't need some company to develop some little machine to open parents up to the idea of letting little Timmy use the computer.  

Who's to say parents will even bite at this?  Will it be up to the schools to buy the stuff ?  If so, why don't THEY just get real computers too.

Quote
No, you haven't. You have been ranting about how stupid the raspberry pi is and how stupid little british children are and berating your fellow board members as stupid.
Who said anything about little british kids?  All little kids are stupid.  They're kids.  It's how it works. Only a kid is stupid enough to put a fork in a wall outlet or to put a pet turtle in his mouth and choke and die.

Quote
So, until you decide to actually educate yourself on what the Raspberri Pi is, instead of spreading false information about its cost and its capabilities, or until you actually PROVE what you are saying with actual links, facts, etc.. I am going to stick by my assertion that you are nothing but an idiot with no knowledge concerning the topic at hand.
I'll admit 90% of this has been bored trolling and half cocked googling.  It's friday, sucka.  Though, I did paste what I grabbed off Wikipedia, but you condensed it down to whaargarbl because you're boring.

Quote
When we want to know all about crappy PC Engine ports or god awful homebrew games like Atlantean, we'll be the first in line to hear what you have to say.
Whoaaa now.  That was simply uncalled for.  I prefer you call them ****ty, and ****ing awful.  Don't bring god into this. He didn't do anything to you.  Or maybe he did. I don't know.  

Besides, people like my games. Play them before you act like a polesmoker.

Or, get better insults.

However, I am touched that you at least clicked my link and cared enough to research your prey.  =3 *hug*

Quote
Until then, go finish your thesis, drink a coffee, and pound sand.
Getting close, coffee sucks, and I prefer pounding my wang. Or your mom.



Quote from: koaftder;682208
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of  time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the  ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out  of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids  aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.
True.  Most K-12 teachers don't know **** about computers or programming.

Quote
Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the  vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of  computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I  think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively  overblown.

I do notice that most people getting erect over this are probably planning to keep the thing to play with themselves.  While playing with themselves maybe.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:21:58 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682208
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.

Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively overblown.


US statistics on lowest unemployment rates by degree/field:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-57324669/25-college-majors-with-lowest-unemployment-rates/

CS is 3.5%.  Lots of demand out there for programmers, especially good ones.  At least in the US.  Not everything is being outsourced.

Although the take home from the above article is that geophysics and astrophysics are the fields to get into.

You are possibly right about the educational usefulness in a K-12 setting.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682210
tl/dr


You're still an idiot.

Also, tell my mom hi, and I'm not calling you dad no matter what she says.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682211
You are possibly right about the educational usefulness in a K-12 setting.

My highschool dropped C++ in favor of VB6 for classes because they found that all the students couldn't comprehend anything and would rather draw forms and buttons and click things to make happy faces appear.

Older people I know had similar things happen.  Some schools drop programming altogether.  

My highschool is rated one of the top ones in the area, so, that aint a good sign

Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682212
You're still an idiot.

Also, tell my mom hi, and I'm not calling you dad no matter what she says.

If you can't be bothered to read anything, don't bother replying.  You flail  your penis around pissing and moaning about not providing facts or  whatever it is you're doing, whining about berating people, all the  while flinging insults, but this is the second time now that you've been  all tl;dr.

learn how to internet.  What the hell are they putting in the water in Dundee?

You're the worst troll target ever.  The troll-targets even troll you.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 02, 2012, 06:27:14 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682210
Please, lets drop the condescending HURHUR you dunno nothin' crap.  It's getting none of us anywhere. .

:roflmao:  
Man, that was hysterical!!

Thanx for that!!

Irony can be so ironic sometimes..  :)

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:28:50 PM
Quote from: desiv;682214
:roflmao:  
Man, that was hysterical!!

Thanx for that!!

Irony can be so ironic sometimes..  :)

desiv


Welcome to the party!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 06:32:26 PM
aw look the Oregon Trail brigade is playing together! ;3

I wonder how long it will take for Bulgey to realize I've been , uh how is it the Brits put it?

taking the piss?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 02, 2012, 06:33:28 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682208
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.

Programming itself isn't all that particularly useful of a skill for the vast majority of people and society isn't suffering from a lack of computer programmers. The raspberry pi is a cool toy for geeks but I think it's usefulness in an educational setting for k-12 is massively overblown.
Bull. Programming is a great skill to have whether or not you use it on a daily basis or in a professional context; it's an excellent key to a real understanding of computers and how they work, and the more ubiquitous computers become in every aspect of life, the more useful that understanding will be.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:33:34 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682213
My highschool dropped C++ in favor of VB6 for classes because they found that all the students couldn't comprehend anything and would rather draw forms and buttons and click things to make happy faces appear.

Older people I know had similar things happen.  Some schools drop programming altogether.  

My highschool is rated one of the top ones in the area, so, that aint a good sign

Well, that is too bad...whoa!:

Quote
If you can't be bothered to read anything, don't bother replying.  You flail  your penis around pissing and moaning about not providing facts or  whatever it is you're doing, whining about berating people, all the  while flinging insults, but this is the second time now that you've been  all tl;dr.

learn how to internet.  What the hell are they putting in the water in Dundee?

You're the worst troll target ever.  The troll-targets even troll you.

You are obsessed with penis!  And just when I thought you had calmed down and taken your ritalin...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 06:34:49 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682218
Well, that is too bad...whoa!:
You are obsessed with penis!

I know man, I can't quit you!

Quote
And just when I thought you had calmed down and taken your ritalin...

I took ritalout, dude.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:36:08 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682216
aw look the Oregon Trail brigade is playing together! ;3

I wonder how long it will take for Bulgey to realize I've been , uh how is it the Brits put it?

taking the piss?


Did you not fully read the tl/dr response?

I admit it took a few posts.  Cut me some slack, I multitask like a rhino ****ing a volkswagen.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 06:37:49 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682220
Did you not fully read the tl/dr response?

I admit it took a few posts.  Cut me some slack, I multitask like a rhino ****ing a volkswagen.

no, it was tl;dr.


Do asians say tr;dl?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 06:39:08 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682221
no, it was tl;dr.


Do asians say tr;dl?


Only ones that can't afford good speech therapists.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682208
Trying to teach programming to kids is a waste of time. The geek kids don't need incompetent teachers to show them the ropes and the non geek kids don't give a damn and won't get anything out of it any way. The raspberry pi doesn't change anything, and kids aren't hurting for computers anyway, they're surrounded by them.


Yeah, well, maybe. TBH I think geek kids are better served by the XGameStation. UK industry has stated that it's more hardware understanding that is required rather than a lack of programmers. With cash in hand I think I would rather buy an XGS for myself too. I just don't need the Raspberry Pi. Having said that, as an XBMC unit, it would go nicely with my HD projector. But then what would I do with my hacked XBox?

Oh yeah, linky for the sake of completeness: http://www.xgamestation.com/
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 02, 2012, 07:22:22 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;682217
Bull. Programming is a great skill to have whether or not you use it on a daily basis or in a professional context; it's an excellent key to a real understanding of computers and how they work, and the more ubiquitous computers become in every aspect of life, the more useful that understanding will be.


I agree that it's a great skill to have, but the list of great skills to have is exceedingly long and there is a limited amount of time and resources available  for instruction of k-12 kids. What makes learning how to do a few tricks in BASIC or python more important than other things such as focusing on reading proficiency, mathematics and other important things that are of much more benefit to most people in society? Programming is a very specialized skill and the vast majority of people not only have little use for it, they also loathe it with fervor. I wish I had a dollar for every friend I've had who told me they were interested in learning how to code, tried it for a while and subsequently dropped that mess on the floor.

One does not need to learn a few lame programming tricks in Python to understand how to make use of a computer. Most of the people on this forum couldn't code something as simple as Lemonaid Stand to save their life, but they surely know a lot about computers.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 07:27:57 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682226
What makes learning how to do a few tricks in BASIC or python more important than other things such as focusing on reading proficiency, mathematics and other important things that are of much more benefit to most people in society?


I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly the UK education system is becoming very workplace orientated. Too much so IMHO.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 02, 2012, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682226
I agree that it's a great skill to have, but the list of great skills to have is exceedingly long and there is a limited amount of time and resources available  for instruction of k-12 kids.

True, but what I always liked about the very early computer experiences I had (BASIC/ LOGO type languages) was that I felt they were great at teaching logic.

And that's something that I think is equally as important as math and reading...

Whether or not you ever work in the computer industry..

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 02, 2012, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: desiv;682230
True, but what I always liked about the very early computer experiences I had (BASIC/ LOGO type languages) was that I felt they were great at teaching logic.

And that's something that I think is equally as important as math and reading...

Whether or not you ever work in the computer industry..

desiv


In in the 80's and early 90's, they were shoveling LOGO and BASIC down kids throats. Educators don't bother with it anymore because it turned out that it wasn't very useful. The teachers had no idea what they were doing and the kids didn't get anything out of it.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 02, 2012, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682229
I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly the UK education system is becoming very workplace orientated. Too much so IMHO.


Here in the US, we have a serious problem with kids having trouble reading or doing basic math after graduating high school (if they graduate at all). Every year a higher percentage of kids find themselves rejected from the colleges because they can't meet the entrance exams. They wind up in the community colleges and spend a year or more taking prerequisite classes which yield no credits before they can even start taking college level classes.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 02, 2012, 07:48:52 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682232
Educators don't bother with it anymore because it turned out that it wasn't very useful.

I don't agree...
I think the lessons in "logic" were much more important than they realized..

Just because they all didn't go on to work with computers, doesn't mean the education wasn't important..

But who knows..

desiv
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 02, 2012, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682232
In in the 80's and early 90's, they were shoveling LOGO and BASIC down kids throats. Educators don't bother with it anymore because it turned out that it wasn't very useful. The teachers had no idea what they were doing and the kids didn't get anything out of it.


I got a lifelong enjoyment of computers.  To be fair, I only did LOGO and BASIC in the early 80s.  By the time middle and high school rolled around (late 80's) we had moved onto DOS and pascal and cobol.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 02, 2012, 08:07:14 PM
Quote from: desiv;682235
I don't agree...
I think the lessons in "logic" were much more important than they realized..

Just because they all didn't go on to work with computers, doesn't mean the education wasn't important..

But who knows..

desiv


I'm 31, and the most I ever did in k-12 was stuff like:

10 let a = 12
20 let b = 7
30 print a + b

or punch in LOGO programs from a sheet

I saw more interesting stuff in BASIC from Mr. Wizzard on TV and Compute! magazines. In the 6th grade we had to do some LOGO stuff and the teacher didn't like messing with the computers so she just took us out on the playground and made every kid a turtle and had us walk the programs out in the sand. Don't even need a computer for that kind of stuff. Anybody who ever played a board game or knitted a scarf has done more logic than what a school child will ever see in a classroom. Kids will learn more about logic in a math class than they'll ever get in a few stupid programming tricks lessons in computer lab.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 02, 2012, 09:10:07 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682234
Here in the US, we have a serious problem with kids having trouble reading or doing basic math after graduating high school (if they graduate at all). Every year a higher percentage of kids find themselves rejected from the colleges because they can't meet the entrance exams. They wind up in the community colleges and spend a year or more taking prerequisite classes which yield no credits before they can even start taking college level classes.


I'm not surprised by this. Another NWO control system, that's why you had the right to bear arms in the first place. Not that I would encourage US citizens to rebel against the psychos running the place but...

In the UK kids are just being taught their future assigned slave positions, no need to be a reasoning human being just as long as you can do a job. It's all so f 'ed up.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Firedawg on March 02, 2012, 09:35:24 PM
I was contacted by Newark/element14 to process a pre-order for the R-Pi to be shipped appx April 4th.  Well, I did not get in during the initial sales frenzy but at least I did not have to wait long to order.  For me the size of the device will lend it self to many small embedded projects.  The price certainly makes owning one a no brainer.  Time will tell how successful the device will be based on how developers embrace it and make it useful for learning.  But, for the rest of us hacks just another tool to make something happen. :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Arkhan on March 02, 2012, 09:49:13 PM
My school taught me VB.

After I made Pong in class, the teacher gave me an A and said do whatever, because I'd already passed the class.

It still a neat class, I just wish it wasn't VB.

There was alot of logic/problem solving, but the teacher was an actual programmer.  She knew C, BASIC, Fortran, and all the good stuff.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 02, 2012, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: koaftder;682237
I saw more interesting stuff in BASIC from Mr. Wizzard on TV and Compute! magazines. In the 6th grade we had to do some LOGO stuff and the teacher didn't like messing with the computers so she just took us out on the playground and made every kid a turtle and had us walk the programs out in the sand. Don't even need a computer for that kind of stuff. Anybody who ever played a board game or knitted a scarf has done more logic than what a school child will ever see in a classroom. Kids will learn more about logic in a math class than they'll ever get in a few stupid programming tricks lessons in computer lab.
That's a problem of bad curricula and bad tools, though, not a problem with the concept. I don't know how the Pi effort is going to work out, curriculum-wise, but I will say that while Python isn't my language of choice, it's certainly not LOGO or '80s ROM BASIC.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Linde on March 02, 2012, 10:55:35 PM
Quote from: Arkhan;682210
I dunno, it's a tiny little goonbox with crapass specs.  That's crippled in my book.

Well, that's in the eye of the beholder, and in the end it depends on what you are going to use it for. I'm sure it would have enough horsepower for you to troll amiga.org with it, for example.

Quote
Right.  However, I think there are better solutions.  Ignorant parents suck.  Especially since most parents suck at computers and screw them up (and then blame the kid who barely uses it)

I'm glad you are able to make legitimate points and back them up with hard data. I see that in your eyes both parents and children are stupid and ignorant, but in real life the situation is a bit more complex. Naturally, you don't want your 12 year old child to experiment freely with your computer. If he has his own computer, you probably don't want him to mess about too much with that either, because in the end you'll have to fix it if things **** up.

Quote
Please, lets drop the condescending HURHUR you dunno nothin' crap.  It's getting none of us anywhere.

If someone's talking out of his ass, making invalid assumptions about everything, I'll point it out. It's hard to approach you in any way that' not condescending because most everything you say makes you look like an angry 15 year old.

Quote
I use linux daily (Zenwalk and Fedora).  I've even got a frigging Minix install still.  Mono blows.  The good form of C# is all the M$ related nonsense.

Frankly, it's beyond me why anyone would like to do C#/.NET stuff in Linux, but maybe you could point out what particularly blows about Mono. It's not a 100% implementation of .NET, but it's no less than C# for you.

Quote
Plus this *is* all Linux stuff.  Linux is not really user friendly, especially to kids who generally have short attention spans and are impatient.

Totally distribution dependent. Tried Android? It's not like Fedora is black magic either.

Quote
I was under the impression these things came with goofy little dumbed down Linux OS's that aren't exactly full of all the features you'd want, out of box. I don't expect a little kid to be savvy enough to start adding things he needs/wants to one of these.  Nor do I expect most staff at a school.   I drew this conclusion from reading the wikipedia entry AND the RPi wiki.  It sounds like they've got Linux going on it, but it isn't full-blown.  As expected from some crap running off an SD card.

Before you start talking about full blown/not full blown, you need to set the definitions straight. The distribution for the RPi is full blown in the sense that you can compile and run software freely as you would any other distribution. It's NOT full blown in the sense that... well, in that you'll never acknowledge that it is, no matter what anyone says.

Oh, and on one hand you are whining about how Linux isn't user friendly, and on the other hand you are whining about the distribution being "dumbed down." Make up your mind. If you can't follow your own train of thought, maybe you should continue trolling some other day. Your arguments so far have been based on ambiguations, misunderstandings, fallacious conclusions and outright lies.

Quote
But, what you are saying then is, these can run the same full blown Fedora install that I have installed right here?  With all the fixins?

Get a big enough SD card and make a big enough swap file; I'm sure you could. The RPi distribution probably has a subset of the software you get out of the box with the official desktop PC distribution, but it is Fedora nonetheless.

Quote
and still, it's a fairly low powered machine.  I sure hope the thing is snappy.  I remember putting Fedora on a 1ghz 256mb machine, and even with XFCE, the thing was pretty damn sluggish.

We'll have to wait and see, I guess. Personally, I don't use desktop environments at all, and simple/friendly WMs like Openbox run happily without.

Quote
Everyone is approaching this from a seasoned developer standpoint.  Try putting yourself in a clueless little kids shoes.  These aren't the PROGRAMMING YOUR COMPUTER IN BASIC days where a happy little computer cartoon on the cover tells you all about how to PEEK and POKE and make pacman in a weekend.

This is a cluster****.  It's modern computing.

Generally speaking, 12 year olds are quick learners when given the right motivation. I understand that you don't think highly of children at all, but 12 year olds are close to the peak of being able to pick up new skills. Even if 90% won't have any use of it, the $35 price makes it more worth a shot than ever before.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: HenryCase on March 03, 2012, 12:39:37 AM
Quote from: koaftder;682237
Kids will learn more about logic in a math class than they'll ever get in a few stupid programming tricks lessons in computer lab.


You're wrong. What most kids learn from maths classes is how to repetitively apply rules about arithmetic manipulation, so that it's more about having a good memory than about thinking creatively. Programming seems much better placed to teach you how to think for yourself to solve problems. Besides, programming is basically 'applied mathematics' in many ways, especially when you get past the initial stages. Mathematics is an important subject, but to state computer programming offers little to the kids that learn it conveys a hefty level of ignorance.

@all that are dissing the Raspberry Pi
How do you propose giving each schoolkid their own cheap computer they can transport between school and home?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: koaftder on March 03, 2012, 01:30:51 AM
Quote from: HenryCase;682260
You're wrong. What most kids learn from maths classes is how to repetitively apply rules about arithmetic manipulation, so that it's more about having a good memory than about thinking creatively.


That's bs. You obviously have no idea what's going on k-12 math classes. (that covers a *lot* of territory)

Quote

Programming seems much better placed to teach you how to think for yourself to solve problems.


Only if you can wrap your mind around it. Most people can't, mainly due to laziness and lack of interest. Even most people who call themselves programmers are woefully incompetent and fail at solving basic problems.

Quote

Besides, programming is basically 'applied mathematics' in many ways


I agree.
 
Quote

especially when you get past the initial stages.


That takes genuine interest, perseverance and lots of time, something most people lack.

Quote

Mathematics is an important subject, but to state computer programming offers little to the kids that learn it conveys a hefty level of ignorance.


Given that programming was dumped on little kids in the 80's and early 90's and didn't yield useful results, I think it's ignorant to think it would a second time around. Programming classes make sense for high school electives, but anything more is just a waste of time. That's why elementary and middle schools don't really bother with it anymore.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 03, 2012, 04:20:56 AM
Buhh, "expected to ship April 3..." Oh well, as long as it gets here...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: HenryCase on March 03, 2012, 06:40:09 AM
Quote from: koaftder;682262
That's bs. You obviously have no idea what's going on k-12 math classes. (that covers a *lot* of territory)


Okay, go on then, enlighten me, what are students expected to learn in K-12 mathematics classes?

Quote from: koaftder;682262

Given that programming was dumped on little kids in the 80's and early 90's and didn't yield useful results, I think it's ignorant to think it would a second time around. Programming classes make sense for high school electives, but anything more is just a waste of time. That's why elementary and middle schools don't really bother with it anymore.


Back then, computer use was not as pervasive a part of our culture as it is today, computer skills were vaguely understood to be important, but the reasons why were poorly understood.

Nowadays, computing is everywhere, many more people interact with computers on a daily basis, and there's a stronger understanding that programming skills are useful in a wide range of jobs.

To summarise; whilst before there were good intentions without much insight on how best to capitalise on these intentions, nowadays we have good intentions plus a drive to improve computer literacy beyond the state it's at today. That's why it's more likely to work this time.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 03, 2012, 11:02:53 AM
Quote from: Iggy;682050
Quote from: dammy;682021
Although this is more expensive by $100 or so, I don't see why it didn't sell that well to the Geeks: https://www.genesi-usa.com/store/details/11


Well, not enough memory (only 512MB).
A slow A8 processor.

What else don't you understand?


:lol:

Memory:
OK, much memory is pleasant to have, but in these applications it's a trade-off with cost, and 512MB memory is actually *enough* for most cases (often more than enough), at least I haven't run into any problems or disturbing slowdowns due to this.

And the Raspberry has *half* of this (and on "Model B" (which everyone will be buying) half of that is reserved for the GPU), so your point is rather strange...

Processor:
The Raspberry's BCM2835:
- is ARM11, in other words ARMv6, which due to its age is no longer supported by several popular versions of Linux, including Ubuntu.
- Level 2 Cache is 128 KB, used primarily by the GPU, *not* the CPU
- Doesn't have Hardware Floating Point? (Note the question mark: This is feature is optional in ARM11, and AFAICT only cores with a trailing "-S" have this feature, like "ARM1176JZF-S". The BCM2835 appears to be ARM1176JZF)
- It's only 1.25 DMIPS/MHz
- It's only clocked at 700MHz.

The "slow" (as you put it) A8/i.MX51 in the Efika MX:
- is ARMv7 (what everyone uses today, including Apple, Android and the Linux distros)
- Has 256KB L2 cache
- Has NEON SIMD (think Altivec, but not quite as powerful)
- Has Hardware Floating Point (with hardfloat support implemented in Linux through Linaro, much thanks to Genesi)
- 2.0 DMIPS/MHz
- is clocked at 800MHz.

General differencies:
The Efika MX:
- Has WiFI (and also Ethernet of course)
- Has a 8GB Internal SSD, with a pretty decent performance actually
- Audio jacks for headset (yes, including audio *IN*)
- Has a built-in speaker
- Comes built in to a real case

The Raspberry:
- Nope!

While I actually understands that a price tag at a quarter of the Efika MX would seem cool at a first glance, it's also worth noting that the Raspberry only reaches a quarter to the Efika's level of specification and functionality. In fact, I think this could be too limited to actually be useful for real. The final version of this (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/genesi-i-mx-53-netbooks-nettops-to-take-freescale-machines-deep/) could possibly be sold as a naked PCB at a similar price (and it would offer a lot more than the Raspberry). But the question is - Why?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: minator on March 03, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682229
Sadly the UK education system is becoming very workplace orientated. Too much so IMHO.



The entire Raspberry Pi project was conceived because the UK education system is *not* workplace orientated.

The industry wants developers while schools are teaching them about Powerpoint and Word.  Even Microsoft don't want them to do that!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: minator on March 03, 2012, 12:36:57 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682282


Processor:
The Raspberry's BCM2835:
- is ARM11, in other words ARMv6, which due to its age is no longer supported by several popular versions of Linux, including Ubuntu.


Linux supports a whole range of ARM cores.

Quote
- Doesn't have Hardware Floating Point? (Note the question mark: This is feature is optional in ARM11, and AFAICT only cores with a trailing "-S" have this feature, like "ARM1176JZF-S". The BCM2835 appears to be ARM1176JZF)



It's got an ARM11JZF-S
The "F" indicates it has hardware floating point.


Quote

While I actually understands that a price tag at a quarter of the Efika MX would seem cool at a first glance, it's also worth noting that the Raspberry only reaches a quarter to the Efika's level of specification and functionality. In fact, I think this could be too limited to actually be useful for real. The final version of this (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/23/genesi-i-mx-53-netbooks-nettops-to-take-freescale-machines-deep/) could possibly be sold as a naked PCB at a similar price (and it would offer a lot more than the Raspberry). But the question is - Why?


They're designed to be so cheap you can almost give them away.  The other parts you need you'll already have so they in effect cost nothing.  It's also done by a charity so they're not intended to make any significant profits.

If you want to equip 100 kids with these boards it's surprisingly cheap.  There's quite a difference if you want to do that with the Efika MX.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 03, 2012, 01:36:33 PM
Quote from: minator;682286
The entire Raspberry Pi project was conceived because the UK education system is *not* workplace orientated.

The industry wants developers while schools are teaching them about Powerpoint and Word.  Even Microsoft don't want them to do that!


That's a fair point and I agree but to clarify, that was not what I was referring to regarding the UK education system.

My comment was on the general approach of the UK education system based on the fact that my own kids (twins, now 13) are taking their options. It's not a lesson for lesson based approach, they have to pick paths, basically career paths. The qualifications a lot of kids are working towards now in the UK are NVQ, National Vocational Qualifications. I think it's too much direction at too young an age, how many people know what they want to do for a career at 13?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: gazgod on March 03, 2012, 02:04:32 PM
Just managed to pre-order a Pi from Farnells.

I really don't understand all the negativity in this thread to something that can only be seen in a positive light, its the first bit of technology that I've been eagerly awaiting for a long time.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 03, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: gazgod;682301
Just managed to pre-order a Pi from Farnells.

I really don't understand all the negativity in this thread to something that can only be seen in a positive light, its the first bit of technology that I've been eagerly awaiting for a long time.


Considering that we all have mice, keyboards and monitors anyway, at the price of less than the average console game I think they are hard to resist. If someone buys and tries, then decides it's not for them the demand will mean they recoup most of the cash anyway. I hope you have lots of fun with it. :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 03, 2012, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682282
Bunch of cool stuff about Efika


I want one of those as well! But it is over a hundred dollars, and then if you take everyone's assumption about cost of kbd/mouse/monitor, that thing costs 1200 dollars!!!!111111oneoneone :insane:

But serious.  The efika IS cool.  Still, what, 2800 dollars cheaper than other homebrew projects we could mention.  BUT, for the cost of an efika, you could have a pretty sweet morphOS box, if you could afford the keyboard, mouse and monitor for it...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: dammy on March 03, 2012, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682310
BUT, for the cost of an efika, you could have a pretty sweet morphOS box, if you could afford the keyboard, mouse and monitor for it...


What, an eMac?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Iggy on March 03, 2012, 06:18:03 PM
Quote from: JJ;682137
In that case I apologise Iggy.  I would agree that the Efika  is pointless :)

You guys did confuse me for a moment there.
I actual find the Pi rather appealing.

I just think Genesi's offering is a little weak when I can buy a PandaBoard for only a little more and A15 based systems ought to be coming on line soon.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: vidarh on March 03, 2012, 06:19:34 PM
I must admit I find the whining about the performance of the Pi on a forum where a large number of members still stick to hardware with CPUs where double digit MIPS values are considered fast...

It's not like people here don't know and understand that you can actually do a lot of fun stuff with *really* slow hardware.

Especially when the cost of the Pi is practically a rounding error compared to a what a lot of people here regularly spend on hardware...

Someone who complains about the speed of the Pi just instantly demonstrate that they don't get the point of it.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 03, 2012, 07:27:45 PM
Quote from: dammy;682327
What, an eMac?


Well, according to the conventional wisdom, it would be 111 euros for the MorphOS license, 100 bucks or so for the Mac to run it, then a couple hundred dollars for the keyboard, mouse and monitor.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: desiv on March 03, 2012, 07:38:15 PM
Quote from: vidarh;682335
I must admit I find the whining about the performance of the Pi on a forum where a large number of members still stick to hardware with CPUs where double digit MIPS values are considered fast...

Exactly! :-)

You would think we'd be supremely aware of the waste in the "higher numbers mean better" fallacy...

And not just retro...
I have a 400Mhz Nokia 770 tiny tablet...
My wife got me an 800Mhz Android tablet recently..

Both are crazy fun, for different things...
But frequently, the 770 is faster and more responsive than the 800Mhz tablet..
Why, Android....
It has some great benefits (remember, I think the tablet is great), but Android has some serious overhead...

So, I can imagine the Pi, with a stripped down Linux running really fast, even given it's specs....

My only complaint (I've mentioned a few times) is that it doesn't do RGB, so I can't use it as a MAME device in my cabinet (I have a real arcade monitor)..

And, to be honest, I think it probably won't help education...

I think it could..  I just think it won't..  Knowing the system nowadays, it won't be adopted widely enough and/or they'll choose all the wrong software..
Yeah, I'm cynical..  ;-)

But I think the Pi can be a success, just not the way they intend it to be..
Hobbiest and embedded market...
Higher education even...  Prepping for embedded system careers..
But K-12, I have my doubts...

desiv
p.s.  Just noticed something turned one of my phrases into a VigLink to an Amazon search?  Is that something Amiga.org is doing now?  Not necessarily a problem; I just noticed it....
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: mfletcher on March 04, 2012, 02:52:10 AM
Just got my order in for a Model B on Element14. Really hoping to see some prods appear on Pouet.net for it in the coming months!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: jj on March 06, 2012, 12:38:46 PM
had an email this morning from farnell.  Delivery date of my PI moved from 14/04 to 14/05 :(
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 06, 2012, 12:42:08 PM
Me too, this is complete FAIL!

And the foundation is to blame too, they can't just say: "oh it's up to them now..." Bah!

Have you already paid? Have they taken your money?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Firedawg on March 06, 2012, 01:25:54 PM
Quote from: JJ;682672
had an email this morning from farnell.  Delivery date of my PI moved from 14/04 to 14/05 :(

Yeah, I just received an email from Newark (Premier Farnell) stating my expected ship date in now 6/12 from 4/5.  Crap!  Well, I have many projects on going, I just shall keep myself busy with them for the time being. :)

The Dawg
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on March 06, 2012, 02:10:36 PM
Wow, a seven month delay.  At least it's close to Christmas....

Quote from: Firedawg;682677
Yeah, I just received an email from Newark (Premier Farnell) stating my expected ship date in now 6/12 from 4/5.  Crap!  Well, I have many projects on going, I just shall keep myself busy with them for the time being. :)

The Dawg
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: dammy on March 06, 2012, 02:24:31 PM
Quote from: persia;682683
Wow, a seven month delay.  At least it's close to Christmas....


June 12th?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 06, 2012, 02:50:04 PM
Quote from: persia;682683
Wow, a seven month delay.  At least it's close to Christmas....

Yeah, it took me a second as well, and I'm from 'Merica :lol:

EDIT - I'm on the RS list to hopefully maybe get one from the UK, otherwise I'm on the Allied list here in the states for whenever they may end up getting them.

EDITx2:  Check Here about those later dates:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/764

Looks to have been a mistake.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: VingtTrois on March 06, 2012, 02:55:33 PM
According to the new delay, I think I'll not have mine before 1 ou 2 years!?!?: :(

Arch Linux ARM
Arch Linux ARM is based on Arch Linux, which aims for simplicity and full control to the end user. Note that this distribution may not be suitable for beginners.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Firedawg on March 06, 2012, 04:23:54 PM
Quote from: persia;682683
Wow, a seven month delay.  At least it's close to Christmas....

Actually, new ship date of June 12th, from an April 5th original ship date.  I knew these boards would be hot and all the hype would grow interest to a frenzy when they did become available.  It will just give me more time to ponder some uses.  I'm currently working on my own touch screen home theater remote with its own GUI, using a Parallax Propeller, should see how this could convert over.

Mike
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 06, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
The Raspbery Pi is too popular... It won't be properly available until the end of the year for sure :(
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: runequester on March 06, 2012, 05:09:06 PM
Definately want one, but I'll wait til the frenzy dies down a bit.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Firedawg on March 06, 2012, 05:27:25 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682689

EDITx2:  Check Here about those later dates:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/764

Looks to have been a mistake.

Thanks TheBilgeRat!  Ok, I'm back on for April again.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 06, 2012, 05:41:46 PM
Well, once you get hold of your Pi you may be after one of these:

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-gets-a-case-you-can-download-and-3d-print-2012035/

A nice case IMHO.

I just took a look at the Shapeways site too. Looks like a few cases are available.

http://www.shapeways.com/search?dos=1&shapewaysSearch=raspberry+pi
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: VingtTrois on March 06, 2012, 08:37:39 PM
700 orders per second...
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/raspberry-pi-mini-computer-sells-out-after-taking-700-orders-per-second/
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: amigadave on March 06, 2012, 09:17:25 PM
The Raspberry Pi is a very interesting product, but I have one question about it.

If it only comes with 256mb of combined RAM for both the GPU and CPU to share, how is it not going to run into low memory problems when running Linux?

Is the version of Linux that is designed to run on the Raspberry Pi some special version that is extremely tiny in size and memory usage?

For comparison, my Efika 5200b came with only 128mb of motherboard RAM and has a 128mb VRAM Radeon 9250 video card and runs a very tiny and efficient MorphOS2.7, but under certain conditions can run low on RAM.  In fact many people would not buy it due to it's limited RAM capabilities.

Isn't the Raspberry Pi going to have the same kinds of problems?

Just a question that I thought deserved being asked.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 06, 2012, 09:23:02 PM
Very good question. They've got a custom Fedora spin for it which I'd bet they've been tweaking, I haven't looked at it though. Honestly I'm much more interested in running Haiku or RISC OS or something on it than another Linux distro...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: kedawa on March 07, 2012, 12:12:30 AM
I'm holding out for the $25 model, so I'm already prepared to wait until year's end.
I'm not sure just what I'll do with it once I have it.
Space probe?  Mini arcade cab?  Love tester?  Who knows?!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 07, 2012, 12:47:36 AM
Quote from: kedawa;682745
I'm holding out for the $25 model, so I'm already prepared to wait until year's end.
I'm not sure just what I'll do with it once I have it.
Space probe?  Mini arcade cab?  Love tester?  Who knows?!


That's pretty much my thinking too. At the price of a single video game it's worth getting just to have a play with it.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 07, 2012, 01:18:54 AM
Quote from: VingtTrois;682727
700 orders per second...
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/raspberry-pi-mini-computer-sells-out-after-taking-700-orders-per-second/


Also, this:

http://www.techspot.com/news/47178-25-raspberry-pi-twice-as-powerful-as-iphone-4s-gpu-burns-tegra-2.html

Especially to the "Its an underpowered, worthless POS!!!" crowd.

Also, there is no issue running linux in 256 MB.  There is a problem, say, running LibreOffice, a 720P video in Mplayer, TuxRacer,ripping a CD, and playing on armor games in 256MB of memory at once, maybe...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: KimmoK on March 07, 2012, 08:43:57 AM
@TheBilgeRat
"twice as powerful as iPhone 4S GPU"

I think no one has said it has weak GPU power?
It's GPU outperforms cell phones.
It will run tiny games and other small apps well.

It is weak for desktop kind of use.
No L2 for CPU use, shared RAM, no decent mass storage interface, ...

GPU: "roughly equivalent to Xbox 1 level of performance"
CPU: "Overall real world performance is something like a 300MHz Pentium 2"
http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs

For porting hobby OS:
"To get the full SoC documentation you would need to sign an NDA with Broadcom, who make the chip and sell it to us. But you would also need to provide a business model and estimate of how many chips you are going to sell."

But as it anyway would be pretty steep downgrade from SAM440 kind of HW, AOS4 kind of OS + SW would never be an option for it.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 07, 2012, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682711
Well, once you get hold of your Pi you may be after one of these:

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-gets-a-case-you-can-download-and-3d-print-2012035/

A nice case IMHO.

I just took a look at the Shapeways site too. Looks like a few cases are available.

http://www.shapeways.com/search?dos=1&shapewaysSearch=raspberry+pi


...and suddenly it isn't $35 anymore, and with 8GB storage, power supply and cables on top, it's crawling up in Efika MX price range (but not in performance, features and usability). Many a little makes a mickle... ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 07, 2012, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: amigadave;682729
Is the version of Linux that is designed to run on the Raspberry Pi some special version that is extremely tiny in size and memory usage?


I guess you can customize/strip Linux to "run" it on very slimmed down environments, it's only a matter of lowering your standards according to what's realistic given the conditions. Problems *will* arise however, if you want something close to what could be called a full, usable desktop environment, there is no magic way of circumventing missing HW resources. A special, custom build will probably be required anyway, since most major desktop distros doesn't support ARMv6 anymore (according to the Raspberry PI wikipedia page).

Quote
For comparison, my Efika 5200b came with only 128mb of motherboard RAM and has a 128mb VRAM Radeon 9250 video card and runs a very tiny and efficient MorphOS2.7, but under certain conditions can run low on RAM.  In fact many people would not buy it due to it's limited RAM capabilities.

Isn't the Raspberry Pi going to have the same kinds of problems?


Seeing that the Raspberry PI lacks real storage (no real SSD on board), I guess any memory swapping (and all other "disk" operations) will have to use a slow (in comparison) SD-card...?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 07, 2012, 10:14:57 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682711
Well, once you get hold of your Pi you may be after one of these:

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pi-gets-a-case-you-can-download-and-3d-print-2012035/

A nice case IMHO.

I just took a look at the Shapeways site too. Looks like a few cases are available.

http://www.shapeways.com/search?dos=1&shapewaysSearch=raspberry+pi


Or you could wait for my case for the raspi and support an Amigan ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 07, 2012, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682775
I guess you can customize/strip Linux to "run" it on very slimmed down environments, it's only a matter of lowering your standards according to what's realistic given the conditions. Problems *will* arise however, if you want something close to what could be called a full, usable desktop environment, there is no magic way of circumventing missing HW resources. A special, custom build will probably be required anyway, since most major desktop distros doesn't support ARMv6 anymore (according to the Raspberry PI wikipedia page).



Seeing that the Raspberry PI lacks real storage (no real SSD on board), I guess any memory swapping (and all other "disk" operations) will have to use a slow (in comparison) SD-card...?
Or a USB HD/SSD
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 07, 2012, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: bloodline;682781
Or a USB HD/SSD


Then the storage alone will probably have surpassed the entire Efika MX system in price...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 07, 2012, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682785
Then the storage alone will probably have surpassed the entire Efika MX system in price...
Lol... No more than putting the same thing on an  ;) moot point anyway, as I want to run AROS on my Raspberry Pi.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 07, 2012, 02:04:17 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682772
...and suddenly it isn't $35 anymore, and with 8GB storage, power supply and cables on top, it's crawling up in Efika MX price range (but not in performance, features and usability). Many a little makes a mickle... ;)

But I have spare cables, external drives etc..  Your point is fair however.
TBH I like the Efika MX too. Maybe Genesi should have sold the MX Mobo as a bare mobo.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 07, 2012, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;682777
Or you could wait for my case for the raspi and support an Amigan ;)


As I'm damn sure I'll be waiting for the Pi itself I see no reason why not.
Although I am getting tempted to buy a 3D printer ....
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: KimmoK on March 07, 2012, 02:17:49 PM
It seems Rasberry is around the minimum specs of AROS HW:
"Ideally around 700Mhz and above with 256MB of memory is recommended for desktops and around 1GHz and 256MB for laptops/notebooks/netbooks."

But from my experience, a HW like 1Ghz Celeron is a bit too slow.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheDaddy on March 07, 2012, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682793
As I'm damn sure I'll be waiting for the Pi itself I see no reason why not.
Although I am getting tempted to buy a 3D printer ....



Cool, thanks!
How much are 3D printers?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: vidarh on March 07, 2012, 03:29:13 PM
Quote from: KimmoK;682794
It seems Rasberry is around the minimum specs of AROS HW:
"Ideally around 700Mhz and above with 256MB of memory is recommended for desktops and around 1GHz and 256MB for laptops/notebooks/netbooks."

But from my experience, a HW like 1Ghz Celeron is a bit too slow.


Since it runs even on M68k, I think that depends a lot on how you set it up.... The first tip regarding AROS performance on slower hardware is to turn off Decoration (you get the 3.x look), as enabling decoration makes it dramatically slower.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 07, 2012, 03:32:06 PM
Quote from: vidarh;682801
Since it runs even on M68k, I think that depends a lot on how you set it up.... The first tip regarding AROS performance on slower hardware is to turn off Decoration (you get the 3.x look), as enabling decoration makes it dramatically slower.
The first thing I do after installing AROS is kill off decoration! If I want fancy window boarders I'll use MacOSX or WinXP in fisherprice mode ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 07, 2012, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;682775
Problems *will* arise however, if you want something close to what could be called a full, usable desktop environment, there is no magic way of circumventing missing HW resources.
Well, there's always writing tighter code, but the Linux folks don't really seem to be interested in that anymore...

Quote from: bloodline;682802
WinXP in fisherprice mode ;)
:lol: I've always called it "Windows for Toddlers," since it's got bright colors and no sharp corners...good to see someone agrees ;) First thing I turn off on every new XP install...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 07, 2012, 06:48:00 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;682799
Cool, thanks!
How much are 3D printers?


Check your PM.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: runequester on March 07, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
well, Damn Small Linux ran in 50 megs of RAM, and was quite full featured.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 07, 2012, 08:13:39 PM
640K ought to be enough for anybody!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on March 07, 2012, 08:54:05 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;682828
640K ought to be enough for anybody!
Indeed it ought!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: amigadave on March 07, 2012, 09:46:19 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;682750
Also, this:

http://www.techspot.com/news/47178-25-raspberry-pi-twice-as-powerful-as-iphone-4s-gpu-burns-tegra-2.html

Especially to the "Its an underpowered, worthless POS!!!" crowd.

Also, there is no issue running linux in 256 MB.  There is a problem, say, running LibreOffice, a 720P video in Mplayer, TuxRacer,ripping a CD, and playing on armor games in 256MB of memory at once, maybe...

Remember, this 256mb of RAM is shared between the GPU and CPU.  There is zero dedicated VRAM, so you could say that there is 128mb RAM and 128mb VRAM, or if you are running extremely demanding graphics programs at very high resolutions, I suppose it might be possible to use more than half of the available RAM for VRAM and the GPU, which could conceivably leave you with less than 128mb of RAM for the rest of the system and the CPU.

Given the right version of Linux, like others here have suggested, the 256mb of combined RAM might be okay for most of the circumstances and situations, but it is hardly a generous amount of RAM when you consider that it is combined VRAM and CPU RAM.  You would never want a full desktop system with that low amount of RAM, would you?

MorphOS probably only takes up around 40mb to 45mb of RAM when loaded on my Efika (IIRC), which would leave me with approx. 83mb to 88mb of free RAM after it boots up.

If the Linux being used on the Raspberry Pi only uses slightly more RAM to boot up, it will work fine in most circumstances.  Remember, one of the heavily advertised points of the Raspberry Pi, is that it can palyback 1080p video content, so I am sure more than a few people are buying it with that in mind and want to use those great video playback capabilities, which will no doubt use a big chunk of that shared 256mb of RAM.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on March 07, 2012, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: amigadave;682840
Remember, this 256mb of RAM is shared between the GPU and CPU.  There is zero dedicated VRAM, so you could say that there is 128mb RAM and 128mb VRAM, or if you are running extremely demanding graphics programs at very high resolutions, I suppose it might be possible to use more than half of the available RAM for VRAM and the GPU, which could conceivably leave you with less than 128mb of RAM for the rest of the system and the CPU.

Given the right version of Linux, like others here have suggested, the 256mb of combined RAM might be okay for most of the circumstances and situations, but it is hardly a generous amount of RAM when you consider that it is combined VRAM and CPU RAM.  You would never want a full desktop system with that low amount of RAM, would you?

MorphOS probably only takes up around 40mb to 45mb of RAM when loaded on my Efika (IIRC), which would leave me with approx. 83mb to 88mb of free RAM after it boots up.

If the Linux being used on the Raspberry Pi only uses slightly more RAM to boot up, it will work fine in most circumstances.  Remember, one of the heavily advertised points of the Raspberry Pi, is that it can palyback 1080p video content, so I am sure more than a few people are buying it with that in mind and want to use those great video playback capabilities, which will no doubt use a big chunk of that shared 256mb of RAM.


Lots of links and video out there showing what it can or can't do.  I'm tired of posting links.  Show me an equivalent anything for 35 dollars.  Drop the bull**** about keyboard/mouse/monitor.  RTFM on ArchLinuxARM, FedoraARM, and DebianARM as to what is in the repos and what isn't.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 07, 2012, 10:46:37 PM
So you could say, the Raspberry Pi has 256meg Chip Ram!!! How awesome is that :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Bif on March 08, 2012, 12:04:43 AM
Wow, looks like they are way short on supply to meet demand. I think they should raise the price to $200 to lower demand so that nobody has to endure horrible waits. :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Gulliver on March 08, 2012, 12:46:03 AM
I was wondering if I can use this much in the same way the raspberri pi. Will I be able to use it as a standalone system?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/nc700-multi-user-linux-2-6-31-3-network-computer-pc-terminal-w-3-x-usb-lan-video-black-2gb-117296

Comes with a nice case, a psu, a remote control, has a tiny flash drive, it is available and shipping is free, unlike the pi.

What do you think?

BTW, there is a version with wifi built-in for a couple of bucks more.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: Tripitaka on March 08, 2012, 02:18:22 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;682872
I was wondering if I can use this much in the same way the raspberri pi. Will I be able to use it as a standalone system?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/nc700-multi-user-linux-2-6-31-3-network-computer-pc-terminal-w-3-x-usb-lan-video-black-2gb-117296

Comes with a nice case, a psu, a remote control, has a tiny flash drive, it is available and shipping is free, unlike the pi.

What do you think?

BTW, there is a version with wifi built-in for a couple of bucks more.


I just had a good root around on google and it looks like it can work standalone. It was designed for use as a net/cloud computer or multimedia box. Looks interesting, if you get one I would be very interested in a review.

Whilst looking I found another ARM box also called a NC700, this one runs Windows CE6 instead, maybe that explains why it costs a bit more.

http://www.pcstation.sk/predaj/106/PCstation-NC700/
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: VingtTrois on March 09, 2012, 10:45:28 AM
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on March 09, 2012, 10:49:46 AM
Quote from: VingtTrois;683033
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/781
Ah well, sh1t happens :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 17, 2012, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: bloodline;682854
So you could say, the Raspberry Pi has 256meg Chip Ram!!! How awesome is that :)


Did you guys ever figure anything to do with these things? I just ordered a 512meg Chip RAM version...

So far I really just want to try RiscOS...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on October 17, 2012, 12:31:47 AM
Quote from: bbond007;711734
Did you guys ever figure anything to do with these things? I just ordered a 512meg Chip RAM version...

So far I really just want to try RiscOS...
Mine got kind of shuffled aside as I got my PDP-11 pretty much right afterward...been meaning to get back to it. I still need to try Raspbian and see if that's better performing than the unoptimized Linux builds, and I have wanted to give RiscOS a shot, too...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: som99 on October 17, 2012, 01:31:15 AM
Quote from: bbond007;711734
Did you guys ever figure anything to do with these things? I just ordered a 512meg Chip RAM version...

So far I really just want to try RiscOS...

Im using mine with Ångström linux as a mediaplayer in my car with a 7" monitor.
Using the AUX line in the car stereo to get sound from the PI to the stereo.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 17, 2012, 05:45:45 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;711736
Mine got kind of shuffled aside as I got my PDP-11 pretty much right afterward...been meaning to get back to it. I still need to try Raspbian and see if that's better performing than the unoptimized Linux builds, and I have wanted to give RiscOS a shot, too...

I can't have something like a PDP-11, it takes too much power and probably produces a bunch of heat than my AC would then have to cool... PI is more my budget.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on October 17, 2012, 05:59:13 AM
Quote from: bbond007;711753
I can't have something like a PDP-11, it takes too much power and probably produces a bunch of heat than my AC would then have to cool... PI is more my budget.
I don't know for sure; I've asked some of the minicomputer fanatics over on the Vintage Computer Forums (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/forum.php) about power draw before, and they weren't sure of anything conclusive. Later models at least are probably better (and the PDP-11 was always a mid-range sort of machine anyway, compared to the PDP-10 - which had power supplies so inefficient that CompuServe, which used a bunch of them, had to design a replacement!)

In any case, mine is not one of the classic fridge-sized minicomputer models; it's a microcomputer version (or at least inasmuch as you can say that a tower case the size of a small radiator is "micro.") The power supply's only 320W; I'm pretty sure my P4 gaming rig uses more than that. Budget's still an issue, though, since DEC gear of any kind is prey for collectors and service agencies trying to maintain ancient field installations alike; mine was a very lucky score at the recycle center, which only wanted scrap value for it - followed by an extremely lucky score of a bunch of upgrade parts from another machine that they were obligated to scrap but let me pull the boards from.

I kinda would like a full-fledged minicomputer with a proper lights-and-switches front panel, but as I have neither the space nor the budget, my MicroPDP-11'll do just fine for now ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 17, 2012, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;711736
Mine got kind of shuffled aside as I got my PDP-11 pretty much right afterward...been meaning to get back to it. I still need to try Raspbian and see if that's better performing than the unoptimized Linux builds, and I have wanted to give RiscOS a shot, too...
The latest firmware automatically over clocks (and safely overvolts) the core  during times of peak demand... So the machine is very usable now, also helped is that the official Linux distro is Raspbian based, it all adds up to a very functional device.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: persia on October 17, 2012, 04:31:09 PM
PDP-1 anyone?
(http://alignedleft.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/pdp-11-large.jpg)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 17, 2012, 04:59:21 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;711754
I don't know for sure; I've asked some of the minicomputer fanatics over on the Vintage Computer Forums (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/forum.php) about power draw before, and they weren't sure of anything conclusive. Later models at least are probably better (and the PDP-11 was always a mid-range sort of machine anyway, compared to the PDP-10 - which had power supplies so inefficient that CompuServe, which used a bunch of them, had to design a replacement!)

I don't suppose you would leave the PDP running 24/7, then then again, that's probably what its designed for...

there is a device you can get that will tell you the current draw from the AC outlet. I don't know what its called, but I have been wanting to get one because I'm curious to see how all these "wall warts" add up...

I remember when I was a teenager and the school was trying to get rid of some sort of big mainframe thing with tape drives... I tried to convince my dad to bring it home with his truck as it would not fit in my mustang-II. He said no way, so I must not have  convincing enough. I guess that was my one shot of having a mainframe.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on October 17, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
Quote from: persia;711778
PDP-1 anyone?
Oh, I wish. Got to see one of the last remaining units in existence when I visited the Computer History Museum, but sadly I didn't get to see a demo. Maybe when I go back to California this Christmas...

Quote from: bbond007;711781
I don't suppose you would leave the PDP running 24/7, then then again, that's probably what its designed for...
It is, but then that's in an industrial or business environment where your power budget is already high. For me, it's no skin off my nose, as my utilities are included in the rent :D But I don't anyway, as the fans are quite loud and it's a small apartment; I only left it on overnight the once (when I was imaging the hard drive - over the serial port, joy,) and that was plenty. Though it doesn't actually seem to run hot, anyway, not sure why it needs to move that much air...

Quote
I remember when I was a teenager and the school was trying to get rid of some sort of big mainframe thing with tape drives... I tried to convince my dad to bring it home with his truck as it would not fit in my mustang-II. He said no way, so I must not have  convincing enough. I guess that was my one shot of having a mainframe.
Aw, bummer...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on October 17, 2012, 08:29:09 PM
All this DEC stuff is making me want to power up my MicroVAX and Alphaserver...
(http://cbmvax.com/jungle/heaters.jpg)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on October 17, 2012, 09:08:52 PM
Lucky bastard!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: runequester on October 17, 2012, 11:25:35 PM
okay, you guys are mental.

I mean that as a sign of respect btw :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: commodorejohn on October 17, 2012, 11:34:09 PM
I wear it as a badge of pride ;)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: MiAmigo on October 18, 2012, 06:27:10 AM
Quote from: JJ;681866
Just ordered one.  Seems up to a 30 day wait for them to get another delivery.
 
Model b - £30 nice :)


Adding Links to Website and Ordering Contact Info

(Amiga.org Staff)

Product Website

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Ordering

http://www.raspberrypi.org/contact-us


Got mine when they were originally introduced. Pre-paid, and waited several months for final delivery. Was it worth it? Don't know yet.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 18, 2012, 07:57:43 AM
I've just ordered a 512Mb version, I want to use my old 256mb one as a file server.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: MiAmigo on October 18, 2012, 08:01:08 AM
Quote from: bloodline;711846
I've just ordered a 512Mb version, I want to use my old 256mb one as a file server.


I might sell mine - or give it away. I may need the money for another project.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: kickstart on October 18, 2012, 09:06:20 AM
Quote from: bloodline;711846
I've just ordered a 512Mb version, I want to use my old 256mb one as a file server.


Is still available or need to wait another batch?
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 18, 2012, 09:41:56 AM
Quote from: kickstart;711851
Is still available or need to wait another batch?
They are under continuous production now. RS are manufacturing in China, Farnell/Element14 are manufacturing in the UK, the lead time is about 3 weeks at the moment. But some people on the Pi forums are claiming that they are only waiting a week!

The only unit currently in production is the 512Mb model B (revision 2, which has an improved board layout, including a power back feed via a powered USB hub!).

I'm currently using mine to learn OpenVG (like OpenGL but for 2D graphics).
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: tone007 on October 18, 2012, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;711810
Lucky bastard!


Just realized, I've got a third DEC machine (Rainbow 100+ tower, very complete) buried around here somewhere, and I didnt pay a cent for any of the DECs (all separate, "free for the taking" Craigslist posts.)  I guess I am either lucky or in the right area for old DEC stuff.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: kickstart on October 18, 2012, 03:00:25 PM
@bloodline

Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 02:00:55 AM
Quote from: bloodline;711846
I've just ordered a 512Mb version, I want to use my old 256mb one as a file server.


I just got my 512mb version today...

I have updated the Raspbian, overclocked  to 800mhz and split the memory 128/374...

So far I'm not very impressed with this device at all...

Very slow and unresponsive overall.

It misses mouse clicks and when your are dragging or resizing windows it seems to think you released the mouse button when you did not.

like using an Amiga mouse with a worn out button...

Hopefully RiscOS is more interesting...

Also, why could they not mount the USB and Ethernet flush with each other?

I guess you get what you pay for :/

update:
adding usphid.mousepoll=8 to the command.txt fixes the mouse

I also have a problem with the keyboard where keys don't respond or stick and repeat and the fix for that seems to turn my USB hub off and back on then the KB seems ok. Not found a better fix for that. I have to do that every time I boot it seems...

I think the Raspberry PI was designed to make 8-bit computers look good :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on October 24, 2012, 04:58:22 AM
Quote from: bbond007;712382
I just got my 512mb version today...

I have updated the Raspbian, overclocked  to 800mhz and split the memory 128/374...

So far I'm not very impressed with this device at all...

Very slow and unresponsive overall.

It misses mouse clicks and when your are dragging or resizing windows it seems to think you released the mouse button when you did not.

like using an Amiga mouse with a worn out button...

Hopefully RiscOS is more interesting...

Also, why could they not mount the USB and Ethernet flush with each other?

I guess you get what you pay for :/

update:
adding usphid.mousepoll=8 to the command.txt fixes the mouse

I also have a problem with the keyboard where keys don't respond or stick and repeat and the fix for that seems to turn my USB hub off and back on then the KB seems ok. Not found a better fix for that. I have to do that every time I boot it seems...

I think the Raspberry PI was designed to make 8-bit computers look good :)


Crazy - my first gen with 256MB and no OC or ram fiddling seems to work just fine.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 06:02:57 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;712399
Crazy - my first gen with 256MB and no OC or RAM fiddling seems to work just fine.


It was sloness issues before I OC or started fiddling with the RAM. The image by default only saw 256 megs of ram.

It is more responsive now with the mouse fix. The CPU was maxing out with any movement of the mouse.

The USB support just seems really poor. I have now tried it with 3 different KB with different results.

Cosair - keys misfire or stick and repeat. Totally unusable.

Logitech- same as Cosair but if you turn of and on the usb hub, the KB starts working fine most of the time.

Belkin - works perfectly. I just don't like the feel of the KB, its really cheapo.

Also, I find it really sad that none of the browsers from the image are capable enough to order the video codecs from http://www.raspberrypi.com.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 24, 2012, 11:44:26 AM
@Bbond

You seem to have some odd USB issues there... Issues similar to what I had with the pre-Raspbian distribution.

Make sure you have run "apt-get update" followed with "apt-get upgrade", which will do a system update.

Also why are you only running 800Mhz turbo? Try at the top setting first and only drop down if you suffer any stability issues.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TCMSLP on October 24, 2012, 01:41:37 PM
bbond007: I think you have something wrong somewhere.   My 256Mb Pi (and those of friends) all work fine with whatever keyboard/mouse we happen to have spare.  It definitely sounds like something isn't right there ...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 24, 2012, 02:08:36 PM
Quote from: TCMSLP;712453
bbond007: I think you have something wrong somewhere.   My 256Mb Pi (and those of friends) all work fine with whatever keyboard/mouse we happen to have spare.  It definitely sounds like something isn't right there ...
Thinking about it, I suspect that bbond007 has a power supply issue... The Raspi model B needs at least 700mA to function and some keyboards/mice will try and pull much more that that.

I'm using a 1.2A (IIRC) supply, and have has no USB issues at all.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Quote from: bloodline;712454
Thinking about it, I suspect that bbond007 has a power supply issue... The Raspi model B needs at least 700mA to function and some keyboards/mice will try and pull much more that that.

I'm using a 1.2A (IIRC) supply, and have has no USB issues at all.


I'm using a PS with 2A and ther PI actually runs just as well without the PS - getting power from my 16 port USB HUB.

The problem seems to be with the Cosair and Logitech backlit keyboards. It works well with the cheapo keyboards I have tried like the Belkin and I just tried a Lenovo OEM.

Settign the clock back to 700mhz does not seem to make a difference.

this is the update guide I followed:

 
Quote from: some dude

Here's the how-to I made from my troubles getting it to recognize the memory split for 512MB Pi boards

Create your new installation on SD
boot it
change the following in raspi-config
· Resize partition (as needed)
· change password (as needed)
· 128mb split (or whatever value you need)
· timezone set to your locale
Exit raspi-config (do not choose to reboot yet)
set your time
date -s "22/10/2012 08:00am"
Run raspi-config again
· update raspi-config (now that your date/time is set properly)
Exit raspi-config
sudo reboot (to Resize partition)
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install git (Since you can't run rpi-update without it)
sudo wget http://goo.gl/1BOfJ -O /usr/bin/rpi-update
sudo chmod +x /usr/bin/rpi-update
sudo rpi-update
sudo apt-get upgrade
sudo sh -c 'cp /root/.rpi-firmware/* /boot'
sudo rm /boot/arm*_start.elf
cd /boot
sudo nano config.txt
Add "gpu_mem_512=XXX"
Add License Keys for MPEG & VC-1
Add overclocking settings (if desired)
Ctrl=O
Ctrl-X
sud
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: TheBilgeRat on October 24, 2012, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: bbond007;712463

The problem seems to be with the Cosair and Logitech backlit keyboards.


I ain't no rocket scientist, but driving all those LEDs for the backlit fanciness could very well be an issue.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 24, 2012, 05:28:54 PM
@bbond007

Well, I would say backlit keyboards definitely pull too much current... But as you say, it's on a powered hub so that "should" be a non-issue.

Also, you should run the Pi at 1Ghz turbo mode really... And only drop it down if the device is unstable (an unstable pi, will just reset when the load is too large) at that over clock. Linux is not a lightweight OS by any standard, and prefers the faster clock speed!
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 06:16:44 PM
Quote from: bloodline;712471
@bbond007

Well, I would say backlit keyboards definitely pull too much current... But as you say, it's on a powered hub so that "should" be a non-issue.

Also, you should run the Pi at 1Ghz turbo mode really... And only drop it down if the device is unstable (an unstable pi, will just reset when the load is too large) at that over clock. Linux is not a lightweight OS by any standard, and prefers the faster clock speed!


Cool. I'll try it when I get home, I'm at the eye doctor now and I don't know if they would appreciate me plugging in the PI to the TV in the waiting room.... But if they take as long as usual...

I also tried playing a few video files, one was 1080 h264, one was Divx. Used VLC, mplayer, the supplied one(o..something) and it did not go well. I did end up buying those codecs, hopefully it helps. Not installed them yet. I was playing the video files from /home/pi...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 24, 2012, 06:28:28 PM
Quote from: bbond007;712476
Cool. I'll try it when I get home, I'm at the eye doctor now and I don't know if they would appreciate me plugging in the PI to the TV in the waiting room.... But if they take as long as usual...

I also tried playing a few video files, one was 1080 h264, one was Divx. Used VLC, mplayer, the supplied one(o..something) and it did not go well. I did end up buying those codecs, hopefully it helps. Not installed them yet. I was playing the video files from /home/pi...
For video playback I use omxplayer (which is command line only at the moment), it plays back 1080p H.264 videos with virtually no CPU usage!!! :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: whabang on October 24, 2012, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;712464
I ain't no rocket scientist, but driving all those LEDs for the backlit fanciness could very well be an issue.


Speaking of which - has anyone gotten the G15 LCD display working on the Pi yet? I'm thinking about buying one just for tinkering around, and would love to have a terminal running in the keyboard. :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 06:40:40 PM
Quote from: bloodline;712478
For video playback I use omxplayer (which is command line only at the moment), it plays back 1080p H.264 videos with virtually no CPU usage!!! :)

Yeah, that's the one that I could not rember the name of. Was not able to play the videos smoothly. I suppose you have the codecs?

I can try the codecs when I get home...
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 24, 2012, 11:24:07 PM
Quote from: bloodline;712478
For video playback I use omxplayer (which is command line only at the moment), it plays back 1080p H.264 videos with virtually no CPU usage!!! :)


I tried omxplayer again and it now plays videos really smoothly - even the 1080p video. I'm not so sure what I was doing wrong last night. Maybe I just needed to reboot. It would play really fast then stall over and over... strange.

Anyway, I put my codec keys in the config.txt and changed my OC settings and now this thing is running pretty well. I did not go for the full 1000mhz yet but that is next.  

I'm still using the Logitech backlit KB, usually resetting the hub after each reboot.

thanks.
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bloodline on October 25, 2012, 01:02:51 AM
Wow! I received a shipping notice from Farnel, I guess the backlog is clearing :)
Title: Re: Raspberry PI
Post by: bbond007 on October 25, 2012, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: bloodline;712529
Wow! I received a shipping notice from Farnel, I guess the backlog is clearing :)


I ended up getting mine from MCM electronics.

this is the case i got with it.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ADAFRUIT-INDUSTRIES-859-/83-14388