Most Amiga like experience on modern hardware

[smerf]

Hi,

@yester64,

[Personally, i would go for the antique hardware since emulators are only so good. This is especially true when you want to play games. Sometimes timing is an issue etc...]

Been with the Amiga since 2 weeks after it came out. To tell you the truth Amiga Forever is way better than any of my Amiga's. As far a timing, the only games both the Amiga and Amiga Forever have trouble with are the companies like Electronic Farts, which really banged the hardware. Case in point Arctic Fox, ran on Amiga OS 1.0 on the A1000, after that it wouldn't run on Amiga OS 1.1 up. So far using Amiga Forever, I have found very few programs it wouldn't run. Electronic Farts programs are the worst but then again that is why I own serveral different Amiga's.

smerf

[_ThEcRoW]

Calling Aros an emulator shows your overall knowledge about the amiga systems.

[Ral-Clan]

I've been an Amiga user since 1987 and love original hardware.  I was a UAE "resister" for a long time - used the same arguments as others - timing of emulation was off, etc.  But I'd actually never tried it - or tried to tweak it properly.

Then my long babied hardware finally broke down.  I was forced to try UAE.  

A well tweaked UAE system is awesome.  Feels an Amiga with a very fast accelerator and SCSI setup, and an ultimate memory expansion (although you can also configure it to the original limited specs as well).

I use mostly productivity software (including MIDI music sequencers where timing is important), but games also run well for me.

I still love the original Amigas.  And I like using the original keyboards, etc.  But I have an old Model-M keyboard on my PC for that retro-feel....and honestly, the Amiga UAE experience is flawless.  It would be cool to hook up the A2000's keyboard to my PC if that was possible (but I'm not sure how the lack of F11 and F12 would impact use of programs on the Windows side).

With the latest version of WinUAE, you can even emulate the scan lines and blur of a 1084 monitor on an LCD screen.  Looks very convincing.

Before I got an LCD monitor, I was using a CRT monitor and seriously, the output looked EXACTLY like my A2000 with flicker fixer on a CRT monitor (because the PC's CRT could even change scan-rates and resolution according the the emulated Amiga's screen preferences).

If I had hidden the PC under a desk and put an Amiga user in front of the monitor and keyboard, I'm not sure they would have been able to tell the were not using a real Amiga.

Yes, once in a while (rarely) WinUAE crashes when I push it super hard - like editing a 100MB bitmap file in ImageFX.  But these crashes are far less than the GURUs I used to get on real hardware.

I still have my old A2000 and will try and resurrect it, but for productivity work, the speed and memory available to WinUAE can't be matched.

Plus, starting games is no slower than clicking a mouse (I have all my old Amiga games set up in Amiga Forever, each configured with a custom Amiga configuration and screen mode in RP9 files)....so games that require Workbench 1.2, 1.3, 2.1, 3.1, etc. all run instantly.

It's been a very positive experience for me - and I've never been more productive in AmigaOS than now. I essentially view my machine as an alternative platform that supports AmigaOS and runs it very well.

The best part is that I can buy off-the-shelf replacement hardware instead of sweating about expensive ancient irreplaceable hardware that might break down any time. I would switch back to real hardware if I could get a real hardware Amiga that could offer me the same speed and memory that WinUAE can, and if I would not be always praying that old hardware wouldn't break down every time I turned the machine on.

If you're really anti-windows, then I would buy an older single or dual core intel machine, install a stripped down version of Windows XP (bare minimum) and install WinUAE on top of that.  The machine would then seem like it was booting straight into AmigaOS, giving an almost seamless Amiga experience.

I think if AROS was equal to WinUAE, I would consider that too.

So, if you already having functioning original hardware - by all means use it.  If you own nothing original and want to get into a good working AmigaOS system as cheaply as possible try Amiga Forever (which is based in WinUAE with an easier to use interface for novices).  For an even more authentic experience get an old CRT monitor for the WinUAE PC.  Or download and try WinUAE for free.

[smerf]

Hi,

@ThEcrow,

The word emulation refers to:

    An ambition and effort to equal, excel or surpass another; to compete or rival with some degree of success, especially through imitation

    The low-level simulation of equipment or phenomena by artificial means, such as by software modeling. Note that simulation may also allow an abstract high-level model.

Computing

    Emulator, imitation of behavior of a computer or other electronic system with the help of another type of computer/system
    Video game console emulator, a program that allows a personal computer or video game console to emulate another video game console
    In-circuit emulator, a program used to emulate the processor in an embedded system, to aid in debugging
    Hardware emulation, the use of special purpose hardware to emulate the behavior of a yet-to-be-built system, with greater speed than pure software emulation
    Emulation for Logic Validation, used to emulate hardware in manufacturing automation


Could you please repeat that, after being trained by Commodore to sell Amiga systems, and explain their hardware and software assets as compared to other systems, and winning the Best Salesman Award, three years straight in the big city of San Francisco, I would say that my overall knowledge of the Amiga systems far surpasses your little tidbit knowledge of the Amiga systems. You still probably think that MorphOS running on a MAC is a real Amiga, when the truth be known is that it is a very sorry imatation brought to you by a bunch of Mac users, trying to make all Amiga users look like idiots.

And believe me some are, they have fallen for the lines of these Mac people who have tried to say that MorphOS is the next Amiga, now these guys should say the next great Amiga Emulator.

Even I who like and support Cloanto's Amiga Forever know that it is just a super Amiga Emulator. Is it an Amiga no - it is a winblows machine.

Is MorphOS an Emulator - yes it runs on an old obsolete Mac and is in the running for 2nd place on the Amiga Emulator contest

Is AROS an Emulator -- yes it is in the running for 2nd place in the Amiga Emulator contest, and probably has a better chance than MorphOS to win since it run on Modern Hardware.

Why do I choose "Cloanto's Amiga Forever" as first place Winner and Emulator -- quite simple, it comes with the Amiga OS roms, it automatically chooses the right machine for the program you are trying to run, and

For simple minded delusional people who think that all these emulators are the next best Amiga, it will probably work best for you.

Not only that but did I say it also emulates AROS, and you can play with the build your own Amiga system emulation by clicking on features that you want.

Oh did I mention that AF emulates AROS.

By the way just to let you know I support all the people programming these programs on the different machines, why?

Because I no longer have the patience to do something like that, (ok the knowledge) so keep on programming, who knows some day you may impress the old smerf, and I may actually give you a good review.

By the way did you know that MorphOS automaticallly sets up the internet protocal, it is one of the easiest internet setups next to Linux and it also runs Youtube quite well.

On AROS I have not yet made AROS find the internet, could be because they are still stuck emulating an old obsolete NIC card in thier old obsolete PC machine.

Got to give the devil its due.

smerf

[smerf]

Hi,

Thank you ral-clan,

I use Cloanto's Amiga Forever, and I think it is great. I just didn't want to go through all the hassle of finding the roms, then setting up the machines, etc. etc.

OK I am freaking lazy and I am also old, so I don't want the hassle anymore. After several years of programming, working 18 to 24 hour days (thats right as a programmer when you need to finish up a program to meet a deadline you may not get any sleep for 2 or three days, sort of defeats the cause) I just don't like hassles. I want something I can load up and run, and Cloanto's Amiga Forever is just that. An emulator that works and works great. Don't need any specific hardware, especially obsolete junk that I threw out 10 years ago, don't need the enemies fanboy computer, hate even touching it, that machine was really made for non computer users, find the switch and turn it on, (and on a Mac mini that is no easy chore, trying to find that on / off button with those thick bio hazard gloves on is pretty hard).

smerf

[EDanaII]

The word emulation refers to:

    An ambition and effort to equal, excel or surpass another; to compete or rival with some degree of success, especially through imitation

    The low-level simulation of equipment or phenomena by artificial means, such as by software modeling. Note that simulation may also allow an abstract high-level model.

Computing

    Emulator, imitation of behavior of a computer or other electronic system with the help of another type of computer/system
    Video game console emulator, a program that allows a personal computer or video game console to emulate another video game console
    In-circuit emulator, a program used to emulate the processor in an embedded system, to aid in debugging
    Hardware emulation, the use of special purpose hardware to emulate the behavior of a yet-to-be-built system, with greater speed than pure software emulation
    Emulation for Logic Validation, used to emulate hardware in manufacturing automation

Equivocation

Equivocation consists in employing the same word in two or more senses, e.g. in a syllogism, the middle term being used in one sense in the major and another in the minor premise, so that in fact there are four not three terms. Often this happens when the two meanings are similar despite being distinctly different.
 Example Argument: All heavy things have a great mass; Jim has a "heavy heart"; therefore Jim's heart has a great mass. Problem: Heavy describes more than just weight. (Jim is sad.)

What you say, loosely speaking, is true, however, there is a distinct difference in how UAE and AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 4.1 "emulate" an Amiga. There's also a distinct difference between what you get from those two differing types of "emulation." You are taking the meaning in one sense, i.e. precise emulation of Amiga via software as superior while ignoring the advantages of API emulation on more advanced hardware.

Play nice.

[smerf]

Equivocation

What you say, loosely speaking, is true, however, there is a distinct difference in how UAE and AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 4.1 "emulate" an Amiga. There's also a distinct difference between what you get from those two differing types of "emulation." You are taking the meaning in one sense, i.e. precise emulation of Amiga via software as superior while ignoring the advantages of API emulation on more advanced hardware.

Play nice.

Hi,

HUH!!!

smerf

[_ThEcRoW]

Won't waste my time with you dude. Don't forget to take your medications.

[KimmoK]

@dammy
>Via UAE you can achieve running AOS on multi GHz level.

Yes, but it's not native. Only emulation on top of some other OS.

>If you are referring to the AmigaOne series, they are not an Amiga nor Commodore Amiga, just AmigaOne and nothing else.

By "PPC Amigas" I meant ClassicPPC, Pergasos2, AmigaOne, SAM. HW that are capable of running AmigaOS above 100Mhz natively.
(I could not care less about the actual name of the HW.)

[dammy]

@dammy
>Via UAE you can achieve running AOS on multi GHz level.

Yes, but it's not native. Only emulation on top of some other OS.

The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.

>If you are referring to the AmigaOne series, they are not an Amiga nor Commodore Amiga, just AmigaOne and nothing else.

By "PPC Amigas" I meant ClassicPPC, Pergasos2, AmigaOne, SAM. HW that are capable of running AmigaOS above 100Mhz natively.
(I could not care less about the actual name of the HW.)

Does that mean I should also be able to label AROS as AmigaOS if I can care less about the actual name of the OS?  

Now show us a video of you DBANing the AmigaOne Drive(s) and just installing WB 3.9 floppies and  then boot it into WB 3.9 and then I will concede it's running 68K software natively.

[OlafS3]

there is Aros 68k running on classic hardware. Is that emulation too?

[KimmoK]

@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.

So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!

>Does that mean I should also be able to label AROS as AmigaOS if I can care less about the actual name of the OS?  

I was not talking about the name of the OS, actually.

But I do not care about the name of the OS either.
I'm interested to see the evolution of original AmigaOS codebase.
AmigaOS4 is it, the AmigaOS codebase, compiled to run natively on PPC.

The world has moved beyond 68k.

I like all variants of our AmigalikeOSs. I plan to use all of them also in the future.
(68k version because it is classic, PPC AOS because it's real AOS, MOS because it perhaps is the best (clone) currently, AROS (clone) because it seems to have the brightest future (develops perhaps fastest nowdays, even if it's still behind in general usability, but at this rate, it might catch up) and it's free, etc...)

[paolone]

@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.

So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!

Well, he's obviously right. The fact AmigaOS 4 can transparently run 68K software does NOT mean it doesn't need any emulation layer to do that. It needs, indeed, a JIT translator for M68K instructions and calls, which may be less invasive than a whole instance of UAE running in the background, but that's emulation anyway. Some people will insist this is a "better" approach over AROS' dependance on UAE, since it allows running concurrent M68K and PPC programs and libraries, and even mixing up runtime code (es: M68K programs which can take advantage of PPC libraries, and vice versa) in a single environment, however I still prefer emulation of the whole system, with a smaller degree of integration. It's safer and more compatible.

[dammy]

@dammy
>The only thing that runs AOS natively on is a 68K Amiga, everything else has emulation/translation layer which isn't native by a long shot.

So, you are not aware that AmigaOS has been ported to PPC. LOL!

Exactly what WB 3.x source code was ported?

[Iggy]

Is MorphOS an Emulator - yes ...
smerf

No, its an operating system.

Is AROS an Emulator -- yes ...
smerf

Again, no, its an operating system.

Why do I choose "Cloanto's Amiga Forever" ...
smerf

Now THAT'S an emulator and my personal choice for emulating Amigas too.

For simple minded delusional people who think that all these emulators are the next best Amiga, it will probably work best for you.
smerf

I never said MorphOS was the next best Amiga Smerf, just the best POST Amiga.

[pVC]

Well, he's obviously right. The fact AmigaOS 4 can transparently run 68K software does NOT mean it doesn't need any emulation layer to do that.

I think he was talking about OS itself, not other 68k software. And OS4 runs natively on PPC, it's evolved from older versions (like 3.x was evolved from 2.x etc), it has compatible API etc. So, AOS runs natively on other than 68k architectures nowadays. Of course you need emulation layer to support old software which can't be recompiled for PPC, but that wasn't the point here.