Is emulation based x86 machines in Amiga cases really a no no? or......

[Daedalus]

What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?

Very little, if the x86 box was running AmigaOS or, say, a mature AROS with more seamless 68k integration... Then they're pretty similar indeed.

[Haranguer]

I took the first option.  I'd never fork out for a linux box running an emulator.

As for those who don't think a PPC MOBO constitutes an Amiga - in my not-so-humble opinion, if it runs an Amiga-like operating system, be that Amiga OS (any version), MorphOS or AROS natively (but definitely not linux and an emulator), it's an Amiga.

So, if it's got an x86 MOBO, it may very well be a Miggy, but only if it's running AROS natively.

[TheDaddy]

I also have a PPC board in my Amiga... But that is an Amiga... What we are talking about here are new machines, is there any difference between a x86 based motherboard and a PPC one in an "Amiga" case?

I meant a PPC board as a SAM PPC based board.
My A1200 BlizzardPPC was still an Amiga even when I took it out of its case and put it in a tower and it was running OS3.9.

My SAMs are Amigas even if they are in a generic £30 mini-itx case.

A PPC based MAC would still be an Amiga when running an Amiga OS although the tight connections to Apple would make this slightly more difficult to acknwoledge but still...

My SAM runs OS4 not Linux, not Windows nor OSX. You can run Linux on a SAM but at this point I wouldn't call it an Amiga.

So to answer the question...yes there is a difference. The difference is based on the OS you run. If the PPC motherboard is running YDL in an Amiga replica case then it is not an Amiga in my opinion. If the x86 in an Amiga replica case is running an Amiga Operating System then it is.

You can start going deeply into what makes and what doesn't make an Amiga but it would all be based on conjecture. What makes an Amiga OS more Amiga than another one? I have used and still use all the AmigaOS spin offs and out of all of them OS4 feels AmigaOS.

As it stands my above description fits my belief.

@Daedalus

I agree with you. I am running OS4 and, to me, it feels the natural and spiritual successor of AmigaOS. When I sold my A1200 BPPC 060 60MHz and PPC 266MHz with all the bits and bobs, Mediator, Voodoo 5, Soundblaster and OS3.9 and started using OS4 on my SAM it felt as I never left. I am not sure if it's clear. It doesn't feel alien. It's just faster than my A1200. Even the crashes feel original!
I always thought :"My A1200 has pc stuff in it...Voodoo, PCI, Soundblaster...but it's still my Amiga", the SAM is the same but it feels and it is Amiga to me at least.
I have loads of PCs and one runs Windows and goes straight into WinUAE, you hardly notice Windows is there, but you know it isn't Amiga.

[gunni]

So a lower power more expensive ARM board compared to AMD £99 MiniITX/CPU setup to run a less stable/more complicated version of UAE emulation on via a non existent release of AROS for playing old Amiga games via ADFs? nice

(If it can't physically load actual Amiga floppy disks and doesn't have a Paula chip on the motherboard it isn't actually an Amiga)

Agreed, the closest we're gonna get to a new Amiga is the Natami.

As for ARM, its going places. Just look at the way people went crazy over Quake3 running on the Raspberry Pi.. it's a platform that has a bit of buzz about it, the scene needs new development and new software and x86 is already swamped with OS options. As likely as I am to be crucified and flamed for eternity for saying so its a platform change that could see the community grow, its not going to be popular with a lot of people because like you say it wouldn't be REAL Amiga but at the end of the day I'm sure people don't look at a Macbook Air in a store thinking "hmmm well it's not a REAL Mac...". It would be nice to get back the feel of "wow, look at what this thing can do!" that to me was as much part of what is Amiga as the custom chips if we can't resurrect the 68k.
(Incidentally I have no trouble whatsoever with Amiga emulation on my ARM-based OpenPandora).

[fishy_fiz]

Actually, this is pure semantics, I dont actually care too much, but a sam, etc. isnt any more an Amiga than an x86 machine dedicated to an amiga based os. Yes, the OS it (a sam) runs the official successor, but the hardware itself isnt an Amiga. It's an AmigaOS machine, but not "Amiga" hardware.

All from a perspective of licensing, legality, etc. Like I said, I really dont care too much, Im more of a mind that its the mindset and what a person does with thier machine that dictates if a person is an amiga user.

[fishy_fiz]

(Incidentally I have no trouble whatsoever with Amiga emulation on my ARM-based OpenPandora).

Youve obviously never done much more than played simple, floppy based ocs/ecs games then     There's *plenty* of software that runs like mud on uae on OpenPandora. Breathless, AlienBreed3d, AB3d2:TKG, quake, quake2, descent freespace, doom1/2/etc, heretic, hexen, napalm, thousands of scene demos, exodus, flyin' high, racer3d, payback, tzero, Myst, Capital Punishment, trapped, trapped2, genetic species and about a billion others that I couldnt be bothered listing

[TheDaddy]

Actually, this is pure semantics, I dont actually care too much, but a sam, etc. isnt any more an Amiga than an x86 machine dedicated to an amiga based os. Yes, the OS it (a sam) runs the official successor, but the hardware itself isnt an Amiga. It's an AmigaOS machine, but not "Amiga" hardware.

All from a perspective of licensing, legality, etc. Like I said, I really dont care too much, Im more of a mind that its the mindset and what a person does with thier machine that dictates if a person is an amiga user.

So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?

Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.

[bloodline]

Very little, if the x86 box was running AmigaOS or, say, a mature AROS with more seamless 68k integration... Then they're pretty similar indeed.

Someone needs to poke Moggen... http://emumiga.com hasn't been updated in months!

[Thorham]

So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?

Why would that be true? Neither are Amigas.

Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.

Sorry, 'custom chips' and Amiga go hand in hand. Amiga hardware: OCS/ECS/AGA+680x0. Basically the hardware from back in the day: A500/A600/A1000/A1200/A2000/A3000/A4000 (and some I  missed) are Amigas.

[SaMiga]

You may be interested in the ZX Spectrum laptop then

Heh! looked at the speccy laptop mod.

No! i prefer my speccy as it is, but i have some A500 and some A600 mobo's in spare..

Maybe i'm going to do some Steampunk mod with a A600 mobo, as my job allows 'creativity' , teatching youngsters the 'fine art of metalwork'

[persia]

I've fallen in love with virtualisation.  One Box, many operating systems.  May many system has 12 cores running at 3 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and 2 TB of hard disk.  UAE doesn't using even visibly raise the core usage.  Heck I don't think UAE inside a virtual Windows box inside a virtual linux box would raise the core usage much.  I'm not pulled six ways to sunday to try to support ram, video and the like on multiple boxes.  I can split my three screens into three different OSs or allow (some of the OSs) to control all screens.

Plus if I'm doing something in another machine and UAE gurus I can keep doing what I am doing in that machine and just restart UAE.

[fishy_fiz]

So what you are saying is that a SAM with OS4 is more Amiga than an x86 machine running something else?

Define Amiga hardware please and don't give me "custom chips" and all that.

My last sentence kinda covers it I thought (ie., from a stance of legality, license, etc.) , but basically what Im saying is a Sam is Amiga OS4 hardware, but not an Amiga. It's all semantics though as I said, I really couldnt care less.
Just the other side of the coin from the often heard, "its not amiga if its not the official continuiation of the sources" arguement. If it works one way (software), then it works the other too (hardware).

[jrtolson]

if i where a rich venture capitalist..

1) i would buy Commodore and CBM assosiated brands and patents, Amiga inc, Hyperion, and those dudes making the A1x1000? and anyone else involved, i would then reFORM Commodore Business Machines as it was, i would then go to West chester and kick out QVC and take back Commodore HQ..

2) acquire key personel involved in development of the original amiga chipset and set down a roadmap to developing a new amiga product line. .

3) A new Amiga would have a full chipset that is fully backwards compatible with older hardware, based upon the AGA chipset, (or very minimal emulation) the new chipset will not only what we expect out of diplay hardware of today but incorporate full blown GPU that supports the very latest open GL standards, the main cpu will be either COLDFIRE or PPC (probabily the latter) and multicore, also a 68k cpu for backwards compitibilty and also serve as an instruction set for the powerpc when the amiga is first switched on (copied to ppc l1/l2 cache) have 2 gb chip ram and 2gb fast have wifi/ethernet and usb3.0 connectivity, Bluray rom drive and other expandibility. the whole thing designed to run with discreet fanless cooling except for big box versions... and run 0S 4

4) the Amiga released in 3 versions a) a500/a1200 style wedge.. b) small tower workstation, c) big box tower/desktop with mass Zorro 4 connectivity (or pci express).. all with same base capabilities, the wedge version has bdrom drive inplace of floppy and connects to any tv via dvi or hdmi

the thing is there is a big hole in the personal computer market for a machine like this and windows boxes do not fill this void.. infact most people ditching them in favor of laptops to get on face book these days and an x86 emulation machine no one would buy, thats why amiga needs to go back to its roots..

on the "new" amiga platform games could be coded in 3 ways, a) opengl compiled for easy porting from and to console platforms, b) amiga api (warp3d) amiga unique api, or c) CTM close to metal like the original amiga line the would unlock the full potential of the amiga chipset and as they are all the same it would be ultimatley the way games are coded, the games market would boom again (im fed up of call of duty fps shooter clones) wheres the proper amiga games we all loved? could be remade

not only that, the amiga could bring back HOMEBREW programming (amos), DTV and 3d CGI imaging and movie SFX, i would like to see lightwave 10 on the new amiga.. sound and music generation and all the other things that started out on AMIGA... ultimatley tho i think the games market would save the AMIGA, consoles are for casual gamers only (i hardly play on my ps3, no decent games) pc has only crap ports of the same console games and game shops no longer stock pc games now because of this..

im a serious gamer i like my mouse and keyboard, i want to play K240, DUNE, UFO(XCOMM), REUNION, DEUTROS, STARTREK 25th, ALIEN BREED, SPEEDBALL, ISHAR TRILOGY, CIVILIZATION 1 (not the rest lol) i could go on and on and on...

the games on my xmas list this year are SKYRIM and Sword of the Stars 2.. and those are the only 2 games i will acquire this year, i want homeworld 3 but NOT more MODERN WARFARE 57 if thats the case the whole industry die a nasty death...

just my opinion lol sorry for the rambling lol :-)

[fishy_fiz]

I've fallen in love with virtualisation.  One Box, many operating systems.  May many system has 12 cores running at 3 GHz, 64 GB of RAM and 2 TB of hard disk.  UAE doesn't using even visibly raise the core usage.  Heck I don't think UAE inside a virtual Windows box inside a virtual linux box would raise the core usage much.  I'm not pulled six ways to sunday to try to support ram, video and the like on multiple boxes.  I can split my three screens into three different OSs or allow (some of the OSs) to control all screens.

Plus if I'm doing something in another machine and UAE gurus I can keep doing what I am doing in that machine and just restart UAE.

To each his own, but give me a physical machine per OS anyday. While VMs are good for a few things a lot of the time there's no substitute for a dedicated machine. Performance hit just gets heavier and heavier per extra machine, regardless of cores. Even things like VT-x and AMD-V dont change that. Emulation of hardware hurts performance, not to mention drastic reductions in ram bandwidth. While not the most powerful machine around, my core i7-2600k + gf gtx570 noticably suffers while even running one additional OS concurrently when I do things like play recent games, 3d rendering, etc.

[commodorejohn]

but at the end of the day I'm sure people don't look at a Macbook Air in a store thinking "hmmm well it's not a REAL Mac..."

I do. Mac hasn't been Mac since the Intel switch.

[Daedalus]

@commodorejohn

Is that sarcasm? Any "normal" users could not tell the difference between Tiger on a PPC and Tiger on an Intel Mac, apart from the fact that PPC apps ran a bit slower due to Rosetta. Apple executed the switch excellently, and if the resources were available, OS4 & MOS would do well to follow the same path.