Amiga 1300[What ifs]

[runequester]

Well if you read the accounts from people like Haynie it appears the 3000 was originally supposed to be the 4000, with a DSP. That means AGA chipset on an 030 back in thereabouts of 1990 unless I have read the accounts wrong. Thats the only thing I can see that would have helped, not cancelling machines with advanced chipsets and stagnating on Agnus/Denise/Paula for so long. People bought machines back then based on capabilities not OS. Only way to enhance the capabilities was with new chipsets on the Amiga.

So, a chipset that could compete with early VGA relatively well, years sooner. Many projects that could have kept Amiga competitive longer cancelled not because it couldn't be done but because of management.

This is why I don't consider any retread of the existing Amigas as able to make a dent to change the outcome. Maybe just forestall it a few more months with some added sales to existing customers but to justify it, the costs of retooling an assembly line have to be factored in. They had a retread, remember? the CD32. It didn't change the outcome.

Well, part of the CD32 problem was that they couldn't make enough of them to meet the sales demand, and weren't allowed to sell in the US.

This is as far as Dave Haynie's deathbed vigil video goes anyways. I figure he knows what he was talking about

[Khephren]

I worked in 'game' (UK) at the time of the CD32 launch, we could not keep them on the shelves, and frequently ran out of stock. Which was slow to be replenished.

I can (sort of) understand it. The CD32 brought masses of data, 16bit CD sound, and very nice 2D graphics. It was never going to hurt the PC. But at £300 quid, it certainly gave the segaCD a run for it's money. It had quite a bit of the CD market at the time, I seem to remember.

We had quite a few returns due to build quality, normally the volume slider snapping, or the CD hinge. Generally case problems. Had a lot more returns on the CDi though.

[psxphill]

Well if you read the accounts from people like Haynie it appears the 3000 was originally supposed to be the 4000, with a DSP. That means AGA chipset on an 030 back in thereabouts of 1990 unless I have read the accounts wron

It was the a3000+ & a3000aa that were originally going to be released instead of the a4000.
 
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=23
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/a3000plus.html
 
While cancelling slowed down production, it would probably still have come out sometime in 1992.
 
The major problem was that commodore was all about doing things on the cheap, they always milked their designs. But in the 90's there was more money around and people were prepared to pay alot more for quality. ECS & AGA were both too late to the party.
 
To succeed commodore would have had to produce a better chipset than AGA earlier than they produced AGA.
 
AA+ in 1990/91 or hombre in 1992 might have stopped the high end leaving for the PC. Hombre in 1993 might have stopped the low end going to the playstation.

By 1994 commodore couldn't even afford to make CD32's.

[Digiman]

Well, part of the CD32 problem was that they couldn't make enough of them to meet the sales demand, and weren't allowed to sell in the US.

This is as far as Dave Haynie's deathbed vigil video goes anyways. I figure he knows what he was talking about

CD32 game sales trounced all CD sales at the time, PC CDROM was expensive at first.

AGA was OK for 92/93 but Commodores problem was they could never make anything as advanced for the time as A1000 to milk it for profit like they did with OCS. PCI graphics on Pentium + better CPU price/performance destroyed A4000. The A1400 with 28mhz 020 + CD for £500 would have cleaned up in 94 but could only be a stopgap for AA+ or Hombre development funds. Couple of bullets for Medhi Ali too :roflmao:

[Digiman]

It was the a3000+ & a3000aa that were originally going to be released instead of the a4000.
 
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=23
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/a3000plus.html
 
While cancelling slowed down production, it would probably still have come out sometime in 1992.
 
The major problem was that commodore was all about doing things on the cheap, they always milked their designs. But in the 90's there was more money around and people were prepared to pay alot more for quality. ECS & AGA were both too late to the party.
 
To succeed commodore would have had to produce a better chipset than AGA earlier than they produced AGA.
 
AA+ in 1990/91 or hombre in 1992 might have stopped the high end leaving for the PC. Hombre in 1993 might have stopped the low end going to the playstation.

By 1994 commodore couldn't even afford to make CD32's.

Biggest problem was cost of 680x0 processors vs 486 etc. Not much they could do on their buying quota. The Apple LC475 etc made 4000/030 look expensive too let alone 4000/040.

Damage was done in 86 when they sacked half the Amiga team, look what rubbish 'improvements' West Chester and GMBH teams made.....as effective as Plus/4 and C128 custom chips.

[actung_bab]

Reading a bit through the wonderful Amiga History webpage and found this...



Ok, A1300 never been confirmed to existed so it's just a hypothetical, but is it just me or this sounds awfully underpowered for the time? Or maybe it was their intention to sell it as a (very)cheap PC alternative? How did the A1200 compare to a cheap 286/386 system pricewise?

Are to be young the 4000 at the time ran rings around the 486 your joking arent you seriously 386 286 where crap windows 3.1 please yuk

Myabe the 486 DX 100 or 486 66 mhz with voddo card where great for 3d gaming doom
duke nuke um

A amiga 1200 with kick as 030 and internall cdrom and then games devolped for aga chipset which never really happned i think amiga be still here today i mean and comercial product you just go into deptment stores buy one just like did with my
Amiga 1200

[actung_bab]

Commodore UK were always way ahead of the rest of the company so yes, I can believe they had something like the 1300 on the cards.   Of course it still would have struggled to compete against the emerging PC but those specs are at least close to what the 1200 *should* have been in 1992.

Yeah your right just look any industry that doesint adpapt Bristish bike industry in the 70s
KNow look truimph of today l surpose alot orginal british bike owners thought they where rubbish
Designs ,
In fact i heard them Its started up By individual and brought purpose built
new factory in another city in england and look there fantasic then went back and built
New version of orginal twin designs and there fantasic
In fact as guy cut teethy on japense bikes which are great i lothe to own orginal british bike oil leakers but whould buy new twin but prefer the 675 tripple

remind anyone of somone eg x1000 (trevour)
Commodore wreaked the amiga dream , mind you mac nearly went too
They Allowed selling clones big mistake and lo thought was cool at the time
just my 10 cents worth

[runequester]

THere's a lot of amiga guilt going on here.
 
On one hand, we know Commodore had difficulty meeting demand for 1200's and CD32's (from various people over the years, who were involved, Dave Haynie for one).
 
On the other hand, we have plenty of people saying that despite this, nobody would have wanted to buy a beefier 1200 or whatever, because there were PC's in existence.
 
Hm

[Digiman]

Right OK after raiding a pile of magazines....

A1300 = Amiga Technologies
A1400/A1400CD = Commodore.

By 95/96 Escom era the A1300 would have failed. 030 is no improvement to gaming over 020 so overpriced compared to 125mhz 486 £499 PC bundles.

AT never came up with a good idea, Walker=dated and the green A4000T case design proposal made me throw up a little. Add £399 A1200 14mhz relaunch and no wonder they sank fast.

[Digiman]

THere's a lot of amiga guilt going on here.
 
On one hand, we know Commodore had difficulty meeting demand for 1200's and CD32's (from various people over the years, who were involved, Dave Haynie for one).
 
On the other hand, we have plenty of people saying that despite this, nobody would have wanted to buy a beefier 1200 or whatever, because there were PC's in existence.
 
Hm

Price is the issue. A4000/030 a turkey and A1200 too slow for 3D games. Something inbetween using cheaper 3.5 IDE would have sold, especially CD32 compatible A1400CD in 93/94. 1995/96 ESCOM era then expensive 040 vs cheap 486 Pentium 75mhz = dead end.

[NovaCoder]

AT never came up with a good idea, Walker=dated and the green A4000T case design proposal made me throw up a little. Add £399 A1200 14mhz relaunch and no wonder they sank fast.

Hey I'd never seen the A4000T concept designs before (just looked them up), mind you I only started getting in this Amiga business a couple of years back so I missed a lot of 'history'

www.amigahistory.co.uk/escom4t.html

I actually like the design, much better than how the 4000T turned out, reminds me of a Mac (runs and hides).

[runequester]

Right OK after raiding a pile of magazines....
 
A1300 = Amiga Technologies
A1400/A1400CD = Commodore.
 
By 95/96 Escom era the A1300 would have failed. 030 is no improvement to gaming over 020 so overpriced compared to 125mhz 486 £499 PC bundles.
 
AT never came up with a good idea, Walker=dated and the green A4000T case design proposal made me throw up a little. Add £399 A1200 14mhz relaunch and no wonder they sank fast.

I think we were getting screwed in Denmark when it came to computers. The PC we got in 98 or 99 (forget the exact year) was about twice that money, and that was a piece of *(&#&