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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Pyromania on September 20, 2010, 05:18:33 AM

Title: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Pyromania on September 20, 2010, 05:18:33 AM
Amiga Future #86 is a great issue and I recommend getting it. In a interview with Petro Tyschtschenko he answered one question very interesting.


Question: AmigaMMC's abrupt end and the dismissal of Jim Collas were a big surprise to many and hard to understand. Do you know what made Gateway take this step?

PT: I think Microsoft wasn't so innocent in the whole matter. Gateway was a PC producer and co-operated closely with Microsoft. Microsoft definitely didn't want to have a new platform as competition.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 20, 2010, 05:25:15 AM
I want my MCC (sung like mtv).

:(
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: MaximvsPayne on September 20, 2010, 07:32:23 AM
thats interesting, the idea of the mcc wasnt that bad but microsoft stopped it indirectly like it seems.. damn
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Golem!dk on September 20, 2010, 11:49:12 AM
Funny.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Crom00 on September 20, 2010, 11:53:23 AM
Microsoft strong arming a vendor into submission? Come on guys to think they would have such malicious intent.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Plaz on September 20, 2010, 11:57:55 AM
Pretty standard story from over the years. Microsoft simply says... "Hey there vendor, if you mess with that third party product, your license with us could be in jeopardy."

What's a company to do that's deeply reliant on MS? Perhaps initially Gateway was niave in thinking it could develope Amiga without consequence.

Plaz
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: pwermonger on September 20, 2010, 12:16:44 PM
I doubt it was directly Amiga that MS even noticed. I recall back in those days MS having a general policy in precventing the companies that got special pricing on the OS from sellign any hardware with another OS. the "stick"they used was that special pricing threatening to pull that meaning the maker would add hundreds to the price of their computers compared to competitors who were still getting the OEM prcing for Windows.
 
Add to that MS not allowing anyone to alter the bootloader in a dual OS system they sold pretty much killed any chance another OS had to gain any percentage of market for a long time.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Templario on September 20, 2010, 02:32:17 PM
The long arm of Bill Gates when they want the master of world, now he is more calm, because if not Linux and others will be finished.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: jorkany on September 20, 2010, 02:51:55 PM
Quote from: pwermonger;580354
I doubt it was directly Amiga that MS even noticed. I recall back in those days MS having a general policy in precventing the companies that got special pricing on the OS from sellign any hardware with another OS. the "stick"they used was that special pricing threatening to pull that meaning the maker would add hundreds to the price of their computers compared to competitors who were still getting the OEM prcing for Windows.

To this day there are still people in the collective Amiga community who believe MS and Apple are "out to get" OS4.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: persia on September 20, 2010, 03:13:56 PM
It's fascinating how a community that measures sales in 100s can possibly think that communities that measure sales in 1,000,000s see them as a threat.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: Plaz on September 20, 2010, 03:27:44 PM
Quote from: persia;580374
It's fascinating how a community that measures sales in 100s can possibly think that communities that measure sales in 1,000,000s see them as a threat.


1997 was a different world. Far more potential existed. But then it was squander leaving today's sad remains of 100's. Or perhaps 1000's if you're very optimistic.

Plaz
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: KThunder on September 20, 2010, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: Crom00;580351
Microsoft strong arming a vendor into submission? Come on guys to think they would have such malicious intent.


I don't think it is really as malicious as that. MS gives special rates to large manufacturers and part of getting that special rate is exclusivity. If they gave a company a special rate and they break the terms of that agreement I don't think it is malicious to pull that rate, or at least warn of that possibility. Companies should be allowed to use special rates and other incentives to encourage the use of thier product, and revoke said incentives if necissary.

I think the reality of pc's no longer being "IBM" compatible or even x86 compatible but being MS pc's as opposed to Apple pc's or linux pc's changes the gameplan. Microsoft is protecting its interest in the manufacturers that use its os as much as Apple protects what machines can use its os.

The strong-arming I do see is what MS did to netscape, and has tried to do to Sun et al. Making a product similar to but incompatible, giving it away free and then trying to enforce its use, putting the original company out of businness.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: djrikki on September 20, 2010, 03:54:38 PM
None of this surprises me in the slightest.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: the_leander on September 20, 2010, 04:03:46 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;580327

Question: AmigaMMC's abrupt end and the dismissal of Jim Collas were a big surprise to many and hard to understand. Do you know what made Gateway take this step?

PT: I think Microsoft wasn't so innocent in the whole matter. Gateway was a PC producer and co-operated closely with Microsoft. Microsoft definitely didn't want to have a new platform as competition.


Wait, so the dancer Jim was shagging was in fact a cunning plan by microsoft to use honey pot set to destroy Amiga?

GODDAMNIT!

/sarcasm

Even in 1997, Microsoft had the home desktop market sewn up. Yes, they strongarmed vendors to stop other OS's getting into a position where they might become a threat. But tbh the effort put behind the Amiga was so bipolar and messy, it was never going to get to the point where Microsoft would even notice them.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: vidarh on September 20, 2010, 04:07:24 PM
Quote from: KThunder;580382
I don't think it is really as malicious as that. MS gives special rates to large manufacturers and part of getting that special rate is exclusivity. If they gave a company a special rate and they break the terms of that agreement I don't think it is malicious to pull that rate, or at least warn of that possibility. Companies should be allowed to use special rates and other incentives to encourage the use of thier product, and revoke said incentives if necissary.

US anti-trust law says different, and MS didn't dare face off with the US DOJ over it (entered a consent decree in 1995 where they guaranteed they would end this and other anti-competitive practices), because it is highly anticompetitive for a company with a near monopoly to use that position to strongarm customers into not dealing with their competitors.

EDIT: You might also note that MS was later sued and *convicted* of a spate of violations of US anti-trust law. In fact, had it not been for incompetence on the part of the judge (spouting of to the press), MS might have been broken up into pieces.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: the_leander on September 20, 2010, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: vidarh;580392
US anti-trust law says different, and MS didn't dare face off with the US DOJ over it


Be.Inc would like to have a chat with you.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: brownb2 on September 20, 2010, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: the_leander;580395
Be.Inc would like to have a chat with you.

BeOS... now that was an OS to rival AmigaOS for usability and Windows Xp/Vista/7's PlayDoh looks. I really wish it had survived, I remember the CLI being particularly good and better than bash, I even had it installed on my P2 400 for some time because it was so fast...
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: the_leander on September 20, 2010, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: brownb2;580409
I remember the CLI being particularly good and better than bash,


Errr, BeOS used Bash...
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: dammy on September 20, 2010, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;580327
PT: I think Microsoft wasn't so innocent in the whole matter. Gateway was a PC producer and co-operated closely with Microsoft. Microsoft definitely didn't want to have a new platform as competition.


So he didn't really know and just giving an answer that sounded good, IMO.  YMMV
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: desiv on September 20, 2010, 06:53:39 PM
Quote from: the_leander;580390
Even in 1997, Microsoft had the home desktop market sewn up.

I'd disagree there..  
Not that history doesn't show that they DID have the desktop "sewn up," but that MS felt that way...

MS is always afraid of the competition, even when it's not really there...   That's one of the reasons they've been so successful...

I do think it's unlikely the MS directly said anything about Amiga (but it's possible) at the time.  But I think it's plausible that MS reminded Gateway (and other vendors) from time to time about other platforms in general.

It wouldn't take much after a meeting with MS for Gateway to say, "You know, we don't want any ripples in the water..  That other project; we don't really want to mess with it right now.."

desiv
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: pwermonger on September 20, 2010, 07:20:17 PM
Quote from: jorkany;580370
To this day there are still people in the collective Amiga community who believe MS and Apple are "out to get" OS4.

Very true. OS/2 and Linux were the only ones really big enough for MS to notice and these policies MS had in place for OEMs really came from those. They just happened to be a big blanket that Gateway might not have wanted to test. Gateway had to compete price with Dell, Compaq, HP, IBM and a slew of others on their main market.
Title: Re: Interesting comment from Petro in Amiga Future #86
Post by: vidarh on September 20, 2010, 08:35:36 PM
Quote from: the_leander;580395
Be.Inc would like to have a chat with you.


I don't know what you're getting at. They clearly *did* abuse their monopoly position and massively hurt several competitors in the process - which it would seem is what you're hinting at -, hence why they entered the consent decree rather than risk a lengthy court case. In the end they violated the consent decree in several ways anyway, did face a lengthy court case, and were convicted. Only the idiocy of the judge saved it from having really severe consequences.