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AuthorTopic: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)  (Read 41378 times)

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Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2017, 05:06:55 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820114
The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506 (see the picture of the controller connected to the drive)

Perfect.  I compared my cables and everything matches.  Thus my labeling from couple of years ago is correct.  
 
 ** HDD to Controller CABLING ALL GOOD, moving forward **
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2017, 07:06:11 AM »
STUCK (but I got really FAR ! :) )
 
 Compiling Screen Shots and progress.
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2017, 08:36:00 AM »
So here is how far I got.

Basically I have a working Bridgeboard disk that I can actually boot from.

-> I used the disk to boot, followed instructions from README

-> PC Booted MS DOS from Floppy (Which is nothing new)

-> Then I ran the SAME commands like on my WORKBENCH DISK

Things Worked.

-> But no HARD DRIVE PICKED UP by Either the Amiga or the PC

Could this mean Hard DRIVE IS TOAST / Maybe Controller Board?
* NOT GIVING UP THAT EASY. I think they are fine **

There are Install Scripts on that Bridgeboard disk that copy stuff to a working Workbench Disk (personal one).

I like the idea of making a new WORKBENCH disk and copy over what I had, and see if things work.

My SUSPICION is there are config files missing on the GENERIC "Bridgeboard DISK". Drive Mappings, Mount points etc.

HERE ARE SHOTS of What I did, and how things worked

Any idea's on next steps???







I have BLANK Floppies ready.

Over to you guys for your advice.
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2017, 08:53:04 AM »
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS (So I can sleep without thinking about this too much) :

a) I may need a DOS driver for the Hard Drive Controller

b) Maybe the Hard drive is assigned another letter other than c:

Could try more drive letters, or run some kind of DOS utility to discovery what drives are available

I have a full suite of MSDOS disk available (in 2.5" disk format), and I could copy them over to a 5.25" disk to run on the PC-Amiga

c) I've been thinking of an Alternative (Use the OLD 286 Standalone PC and maybe put the WD Hard Drive Controller Card into it and hook of the HARD DRIVE in the Amiga
- If it has a slot that matches the Controller Board. (It should)

d) Build up a NEW WORKBENCH disk (from bits and pieces, including my OLD WORKBENCH disk and the BRIDGEBOARD DISK.

e) SOMETHING ELSE
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 08:55:19 AM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline paul1981

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2017, 11:24:15 AM »
Have you tried all this with your old ROM chip? Maybe parts of the software aren't working correctly with 3.1...perhaps DJMount isn't. I don't have such a setup but perhaps others can answer this.
 

Offline gary2000

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 02:52:43 PM »
Could it be a BIOS setting?  Where you define the sectors and all that?
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2017, 04:07:12 PM »
Quote from: paul1981;820162
Have you tried all this with your old ROM chip? Maybe parts of the software aren't working correctly with 3.1...perhaps DJMount isn't. I don't have such a setup but perhaps others can answer this.

 I have old ROM chip, I could pop in.
 But waiting for more input since don't want to take things apart quite yet.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2017, 04:17:20 PM »
Quote from: wbrejnia;820179
I have old ROM chip, I could pop in.
 But waiting for more input since don't want to take things apart quite yet.


I wouldn't take anything apart except to replace broken pieces. If you're 100% certain it worked when you put it away...  how would anything change on it's own?  Of course it sounds like you already took the hard drive and stuff out, so I guess that idea's out the window! :lol:

I'd revisit the issue of that disk, however. Reconstruct a new copy of your boot disk, replacing the missing/damaged/corrupt files with new copies. Carefully inspect the Startup-Sequence, as was mentioned earlier, for if it also needs a disk in the 5.25" drive to be able to boot.

...I'm going to laugh when after all this, you're able to access the contents of that old hard drive, and all you find is copies of your 9th grade homework assignments, lol. :lol:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2017, 05:49:50 PM »
Here is a clue.

The MS DOS Floppy disk that I have has the "fdisk" command.

I ran it, and it doesn't pick up any disks as below. (Below is MS DOS window in Amiga). THERE IS A 5.25" MS Dos Floppy in there or else it doesn't boot (so PC is fine)



So until that PC side see's the Hard Drive, I see no way the Amiga side could see it. (Even running PCdisk on Amiga side, would only pick up Drive available on PC Side).

"DJmount" as show above runs fine. (NO Error Messages, it enables bridgeboard to work perfectly. And doesn't see any Hard Disk, and that could be fine, just like no Controller Card/HDD)

I played around with the (Controller-HDD) ribbon cables since the picture showed one flipped around. Doesn't help.

I wonder if a Controller driver is needed for the HARD DRIVE to work with the Controller card.

** IDEA#1: I'm thinking is either Borrow a working Controller Card from the 286, maybe even the Hard drive, since that 286 has driver software **
** IDEA#2 Reverse: Put AMIGA's Controller Card & Hard Drive into 286PC. Both with that Same 5.25" floppy and run "Fdisk" **
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 05:56:23 PM by wbrejnia »
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2017, 06:03:50 PM »
HERE IS THE 286 PC.

That Controller CARD slot in the Amiga is much shorter, but I haven't looked close enough.
This 286 for it's time was a Fully Loaded Power PC (must have been upgrade since it has a CD-ROM).



I boot it up and refresh my memory.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2017, 06:05:45 PM »
The controller card isn't an "Amiga card", per se.  It's just a regular 8-bit ISA hard drive controller card manufactured for PC's of that era.  It's not anything specialized for use in an Amiga/busboard configuration.

If you remove the card from your Amiga and install it in the PC, along with the cables and the drive, it may be able to read the PC side (once you wade through whatever antiquated configuration mess that might be, it's been 30 years since I've had to look into installing a hard drive in a DOS-based PC).  Obviously the PC won't be able to read any Amiga data that might be stored on any Amiga partition which might exist on the drive.

Here's another wacky idea though, totally out of left field and not sure if it would work, but what about PC-Task?  The software-based PC emulator for Amiga.  Again, not something I've played with in decades, but I know people still use it today and that it can even be used to install things like Windows 95 on an Amiga.  Might PC-Task have any capability (perhaps with a more intuitive user interface) to communicate with the bridgeboard and through that to the hard drive controller and hard drive?  Just a thought, any PC-Task experts around here?  :)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2017, 06:09:50 PM »
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors.  Like this:



Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well.  :D
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2017, 06:37:47 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820190
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors. Like this:

Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well. :D

 Good to know, but this project will end at the HARD Drive.
 Then I'll probably put the whole setup up for sale. (Maybe).
 

Offline wbrejnia

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2017, 06:38:36 PM »
SETUP (What I have to play with)
 
 Goes a few Generations eh?
 
 
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM »
Quote from: wbrejnia;820154
My SUSPICION is there are config files missing on the GENERIC "Bridgeboard DISK". Drive Mappings, Mount points etc.


tThis is the case.

It is very likely these are present on your "Original Janus" Amiga disk, and you should examine the directory contents and compare it to the Download "Modern Janus" Amiga floppy. That's the Janus side. In theory, there were not many changes to to the original release and specification for compatibility. In practice, some parts changed a lot to retain compatibility with different AMIGADOS releases. But it was a big thing for CBM to keep BB compatible with all Amigas. Less so for Escom and later.

On cable connections, the best way to be SURE they are connected is to get a pin diagram for each end and check that way. Then you are sure they are connected properly and that issue is resolved, but it is critical component of any solution.

This could stop even a real PC accessing the PC hard drive, with a correct floppy disk set to mount the hard drive correctly for PC DOS use. Let alone expecting an Amiga to work properly. FDisk is a good way to check for connection on the PC side, but I am not sure it would pick it up for a drive of this age, if the drive was formatted to a weirdo Amiga compatible filesystem. It should, but the standards were different then, and there were limitations in reading or even connecting "alien" devices.

BB are a bit weird, because they have shared busses, one side can talk to the others devices even if the other is technically "crashed" or hasn't been booted to an operating system. That was the whole idea, and it's what made BB so much better (more expensive though) than an emulator. Either side could have a problem, and losing the Amiga side usually lost you bits done by that (things like keyboard input) but that didn't matter sometimes.

Another point - the HD controller card might be dead, rather than the HD itself. Might need replacing.

When / If you do get file access to the drive, your first action should be to dump the contents to a suitable directory, that can take FFS sized file names and directories, of a larger area than the drive. You only get one guaranteed shot at reading the data, if you do reach that stage, so retain it as your first and top priority.

Relying on that hard drive to keep operating is not a good plan. If the read head is misalligened and gouges the disk surface as it starts reading the data, you destroy everything as you preserve it. Seen that happen. Not a pretty sight. This is why you "PARKed" a drive before turning the system off. The heads didn't park themselves safely in most drives. SCSI and IDE usually don't have that problem much if at all and are quite happy, so long as they are not shut down midstream.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 09:51:09 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

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