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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:13:22 AM

Title: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:13:22 AM
Hi, I need some help with a Classic Amiga 2000, which has a HARD DISK in it but I have no idea what I used it for decades ago.
 
 If anyone has a working A2000 maybe you can point me in the right direction.
 
 I need to understand if this HARD disk would boot Workbench, or was is strictly for DOS use.
 
 There is a bridgeboard inside the A2000, and a SCSI controller.
 
 If I could access that Hard Drive, it might satisfy my curiosity for the past, and possible find some interesting stuff on it.
 
 I might even consider selling it.
 
 More details below....
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:18:20 AM
HERE IS THE A2000 (Not bad shape for it's age).
  (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/31555763304_42064ccd91_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:20:52 AM
It Boots from Floppy Workbench fine.  
 
 I upgraded the kickstart chip from the Original KS1.2
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/773/32277692641_f6680e6db2_o.jpg)
 
 HERE IS SYSINFO
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/669/31555763064_fa6ace1ffb_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:25:28 AM
INSIDE (Is 386 Bridgeboard, SCSCI HDD Controller, and the Hard Disk)
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/378/32358807046_396d6d428a_o.jpg)
 
 I figured out to get a Workbench Disk working to boot MS DOS via 5.25 Floppy.
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/377/32277692801_69abecb1e0_o.jpg)
 
 I have Amiga Explorer working via a Home PC, so I can get more drivers etc.
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/765/31555761314_7b3ef43d87_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:26:55 AM
Can anyone help me?
 
 How can I see what's on this Hard Drive?
 
 Many thanks for anything.
 
 Wally
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 06:39:49 AM
If my memory serves me correct from last attempt...
 
 I think I need a DOS Driver for that SCSI Card, which I couldn't find.
 
 So what are my other options?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 07:30:39 AM
Hmmm, digging thru notes.
 
 It's not a SCSI HDD, it may be IDE.
 
 I will open the A2000 and pull out the HDD Controller to get some information on it.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 08:07:53 AM
Looks like the hard drive is connected to some kind of old connector on the PC (Bridgeboard) side.  Hard to tell from the picture but I think this predates IDE - may be an MFM hard drive, or some other prehistoric format?

At this point unless there's something you really want to recover off that drive, I'd consider it toast.  If you want to use the Amiga as an Amiga get yourself some kind of modern solid state solution (such as a CF or SD adapter), or at least a SCSI controller and hard drive.  It really depends on what you want to do with the system.  That bridgeboard and your current expansion cards are pretty much only good for old DOS-based software.  Maybe Windows 3.1 if you're really up for a challenge. ;)

First thing's first though, take out that drive sled and remove the barrel battery before you do anything else.  Search the forums for info about leaking batteries, but suffice to say it's not good.  System seems to be in decent shape otherwise, be a shame to let it get ruined by a leaking battery.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Matt_H on January 19, 2017, 01:35:10 PM
It looks like the only boards plugged into the system are the Bridgeboard (this (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=328) seems to be the one you have, not a 386) and 2 ISA cards to support the Bridgeboard. The hard drive is connected to one of the ISA cards, suggesting it would have been used by the PC "side" of the system.

Did you upgrade the Kickstart chip just recently or long ago? Kickstart 1.2, which you said the machine originally had, can't autoboot from hard drives. You would have had to boot from a floppy disk containing the driver for a hard disk controller.

So, 3 theories:
1. This Amiga was primarily used as a PC. Whatever boot floppy it had years ago was used to launch the Bridgeboard software and the bulk of the machine's productive work was done using software on the PC side's hard drive, or via floppy disks on the Amiga side.
2. The hard disk controller board for the Amiga side (with hard drive) was removed some time ago. This seems unlikely given that all the board slot covers are in place. Usually when someone pulls a board out of a machine before putting it into storage they don't replace the slot cover. :)
3. The hard disk contains BOTH Amiga and PC systems. If I'm remembering correctly, it was possible with the Bridgeboard software to put Amiga partitions on hard drives connected to the PC side. (Can someone confirm/refute this?) They wouldn't have been bootable, but since the machine had Kickstart 1.2 anyway, that wouldn't have mattered. The system's boot floppy would have contained the the appropriate configuration files and mountlists to make this work.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 04:24:31 PM
Thanks for all the info.
 
 I will remove that Battery right away.  It hasn't leaked but it may.
 
 Then I want to tackle the Hard Drive access.
 
 I'm the original owner and nothing has been removed, so the setup is as was (when working).  I have a ton of floppies so one of them might hold the setup I need to boot up and see the hard drive.
 
 Other option is I have a old fully loaded 286 PC, that has a controller with a same ribbon cable that the HDD has in the amiga.  Maybe I can hook it up to the PC and see the contents.   If it has a DOS partition I may be able to see what's there.  If it has a AMIGA partition, then I'll won't be in luck on the 286.
 
 I'll post some more details on the Hard Drive connector, the Amiga Hard Drive controller board that HDD is hooked up to.  
 
 Stay tuned.   Should get things setup very soon.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 19, 2017, 04:49:05 PM
Good news. Bridgeboards are the most supported Commodore products, probably.

You are about to experience having two separate computer systems under the same hardware simultaneously, and both independently, and in a new mode, called harmony. This will be a new experience for you, although there are many variations of this and other multiple approach.

You need to run Janus software on the Amiga with all cards plugged in to the Amiga side and operating OK.

Janus does the bridgeboard bit. The hard drive almost certainly contains an image of an ancient PC that might be resurrected to full capability, which on a 386 running DOS, ain't a lot.

I hope you can cope with that barebones infomration and search Aminet for appropriate information and the local scrapyards for suiitable extra hardware to add.

At some point you will stop in this endeavour, that's cool. Janus could look forwards and backwards in time, mythology wise.

Quote
DOS Driver for that SCSI Card
Er, no. You got to have a compatible PC SCSI card that it was formatted with, sometimes. You can try with the SCSI controller you have, but PCs didn't have an equivalent to RDB at the time that was consistent across all systems. Depends when the drive was written, what with. Usually it changed with a manufacturer at least.

Even having the correct driver for what you have doesn't work sometimes, but strangely, having the right DOS driver for the partition, if the controller cards have same controller chips, can do the job. Filesystem issue with what the drive was written with. PCs had this problem. If the SCSI was done on the Amiga side, all will be well. If it was done PC side, that can be a huge issue.

Drive ST-506 possibly. Neither SCSI nor IDE.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 04:55:30 PM
I did get Janus working before.
 Will boot up tonight and see what happens.
 
 The challenge I faced last time was after Janus boots and PC window shows up in Amiga.  How do I get access to that Hard Drive which is hooked up to a Hard drive Controller via IDE cable.
 
 I assume somewhere or somehow a driver loads for that hard drive controller and then I'll see that PC in the amiga boot up from the hard drive.
 
 It's a chicken before the egg thing.  HOW DO I GET that hard drive VISIBLE from the Bridgeboard PC boot?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 04:58:56 PM
Here is a picture of the Bridgeboard that I pulled out last time.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/423/32358807546_90536870cd_b.jpg)

I'll dig up the photo of the Hard Drive controller.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 04:58:58 PM
This is probably obvious, but after you boot into the DOS environment, did you try just cd'ing to c:?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 05:11:49 PM
The hard drive controller is a Western Digital WD1002A-27X
 
 Digging for a Driver for DOS.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 05:17:39 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820090
This is probably obvious, but after you boot into the DOS environment, did you try just cd'ing to c:?

I'm pretty sure I tried that.  Tried a whole bunch of Drive letters.
 It may be that I'm not properly booting via JANUS, just booting DOS off the Floppy drive.
 
 Shouldn't the PC Bridgeboard boot up without the Floppy disk?
 
 Will refresh my memory with another start up tonight.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 19, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;820074
3. The hard disk contains BOTH Amiga and PC systems. If I'm remembering correctly, it was possible with the Bridgeboard software to put Amiga partitions on hard drives connected to the PC side. (Can someone confirm/refute this?) They wouldn't have been bootable, but since the machine had Kickstart 1.2 anyway, that wouldn't have mattered. The system's boot floppy would have contained the the appropriate configuration files and mountlists to make this work.

You can do without Bridgeboard. Bus to bus :)

If you imagine multibus systems like this, and this kind of works with most Amiga SCSI gear. A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller. Each controller can see the others drives as well as it's own, because they are all on one bus. The problem with doing this SCSI style is when you unplug a drive or controller, or power it down, all the systems bomb out. Bad news for CD owners who eject a drive. Guess ther are ways around this.

IIRC BB is similar bus to bus, The PC can access the Amiga drives, the Amiga can access the PC drives, I think. That's kind of the idea.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 05:32:33 PM
I'm determined to end this multi-year project, and close this chapter in my life.
 
 Would this help?
 
 I'll video tape my setup, my boot up, my internals and post the video on youtube.
 
 This system was working when I put it into storage.  I just need to figure out the proper sequence and which workbench disk I need to put in.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 19, 2017, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;820074
3. The hard disk contains BOTH Amiga and PC systems. If I'm remembering correctly, it was possible with the Bridgeboard software to put Amiga partitions on hard drives connected to the PC side. (Can someone confirm/refute this?) They wouldn't have been bootable, but since the machine had Kickstart 1.2 anyway, that wouldn't have mattered. The system's boot floppy would have contained the the appropriate configuration files and mountlists to make this work.

You can do without Bridgeboard. Bus to bus :)

If you imagine multibus systems like this, and this kind of works with most Amiga SCSI gear. A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller. Each controller can see the others drives as well as it's own, because they are all on one bus. The problem with doing this SCSI style is when you unplug a drive or controller, or power it down, all the systems bomb out. Bad news for CD owners who eject a drive. Guess ther are ways around this.

IIRC BB is similar bus to bus, The PC can access the Amiga drives, the Amiga can access the PC drives, I think. That's kind of the idea. One way to do it is for the PC side to autoboot, but that means hooking the drive up to a controller that side that is bootable. If wll bootup as last set, which means if it doesn't have the hardware present, it will not boot up properly if at all anyway.

So reading the data on the Amiga makes as good sense as any. BB systems aren't just BB when starting them up, they are all hardware needed for that PC hard disk to startup correctly.

I did call it an archive a while back, but somebody zapped the comment already. Thanks guys. You can't verify a BB PC disk is bootable unless necessary hardware is also plugged into the right places for it to boot. You do not get autoconfigure on a 386 PC.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Matt_H on January 19, 2017, 06:05:40 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820095
I'm determined to end this multi-year project, and close this chapter in my life.
 
 Would this help?
 
 I'll video tape my setup, my boot up, my internals and post the video on youtube.
 
 This system was working when I put it into storage.  I just need to figure out the proper sequence and which workbench disk I need to put in.


Yes, it sounds like you just need to find the right floppy disk(s).

Remember, the hard disk controller in the machine is in an ISA slot. So by default, that means only the PC would be able to see it. I don't know what determines if a PC disk controller is bootable, but theoretically when you power on the machine the Amiga side will boot up asking for a floppy and the PC side will boot up from the hard disk.

If the PC disk controller is not bootable, then you will also need a floppy in the 5.25" floppy drive (connected to the PC side) with a driver for the hard disk controller.

Janus is the Bridgeboard software that interfaces the Amiga and PC sides. If it is possible to put an Amiga partition on a PC-side hard drive, you'd need Janus to make it work. Hopefully somewhere in your disk collection there's a functional working copy of Janus that you used in the past that has all of the correct configuration details on it. I'm hoping that if you find and boot from that disk you'll find your system exactly as it was when you last used it.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;820101
Hopefully somewhere in your disk collection there's a functional working copy of Janus that you used in the past that has all of the correct configuration details on it. I'm hoping that if you find and boot from that disk you'll find your system exactly as it was when you last used it.

I think we're all hoping for that.  Although you might want to prepare yourself for that hard drive being kaput.  It is, after all, at least 25 years old.  I suppose some obvious checks would be do you feel it spinning if you power up the system with the case open, any activity lights, etc.?

Hope all this effort is worth it!  :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
Moving Forward (Setup almost done)

*** SOME ADDITIONAL CLUES ***

The WD HDD Controller is DOUBLE HOOKED UP to Hard Drive
as shown below:

(And the Next Photo of the OLD WORKING WORKBENCH DISK IS ANOTHER CLUE)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/686/32289778991_649e622cf0_b.jpg)

I REMEMBER THIS DISK BELOW. It is what I always used to BOOT.

The LABEL SAYS "Amiga/PC WorkBench" so it was setup for Dual Boot Somehow.

The Dual Connection says to me "that the HARD Drive was visible to PC and AMIGA" Somehow...

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/271/31567384234_f8a92c3763_o.jpg)

It's won't boot off this disk (Read Error), but I can Boot off a working Workbench disk and Examine it.

Last time I tried to re-recreate this workbench DISK and I got as far as a booting Workbench, that will Boot PC Side (but only from a Floppy MS DOS Boot Disk).

Does anyone know how this is suppose to work?
 
 IF I COULD SEE WHAT THE BOOT IS SUPPOSE TO BE LIKE.  IT might jog my memory to figure things out.
 Plus if the PC Side See's the Hard Drive, how do I know.  Will an ICON Appear on Workbench?  Will there be a C: drive on PC DOS Window.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 09:41:37 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820102
I think we're all hoping for that. Although you might want to prepare yourself for that hard drive being kaput. It is, after all, at least 25 years old. I suppose some obvious checks would be do you feel it spinning if you power up the system with the case open, any activity lights, etc.?

Hope all this effort is worth it! :)
The hard drive is working.  Spinning. and Does the Whirl Click Click Sound when powered up.  Even that Hard Drive LED that I wired ages ago, blinks.   It's ALIVE, I'm pretty sure.
 
 It's not the end of the world if DRIVE IS DEAD.  But would be cool to see what's on it  (Plus this is a challenge to me.  Like a puzzle to solve).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 09:53:38 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820110
The Dual Connection says to me "that the HARD Drive was visible to PC and AMIGA" Somehow...

The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive_interface

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506  (see the picture of the controller connected to the drive)

That being said, it may be visible on the Amiga side, but that just depends on how you have it configured through the bridgeboard software.  It would be much slower than a natively configured Amiga hard drive.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

Do you have access to another Amiga that you could attempt to run DiskSalv on that bootdisk, with?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 09:57:10 PM
This site has link to the manual.  How's your German? :lol:

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=328
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 10:22:46 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820114
The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

Do you have access to another Amiga that you could attempt to run DiskSalv on that bootdisk, with?

This Amiga is functional, and I have an external Floppy drive (make things easier).
 
 I will get DiskSalv and attempt a clone.
 
 In the meantime I can read the ORIGINAL WORKING DISK.  What file would I review to see what the boot sequence originally did.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 10:31:57 PM
Start with "S:Startup-Sequence" on your bootdisk.  Also "User-Startup", if it exists (only newer versions of the OS have this).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 10:39:51 PM
Boot with "OLD DISK in DF2"
 
 I booted off A Working Workbench Disk and on Other External Drive I can see the Original Workbench DISK.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/272/32371442856_9734681e3f_o.jpg)
 
 Will continue with instructions given above (thanks for helping)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 10:51:12 PM
Here is the Original Workbench Disk that I used to Boot this Amiga With.
 
 s\Startup-Sequence file contents
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/666/32033461440_6c1c5d4994_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 19, 2017, 11:00:12 PM
OK. You might never be able to boot off the PC disk to get the PC hard disk to get going, but you should be able to get access to the data. Very good chance of it.

One complication with the older drives - because they have multiple data cables, it is ever easier for just one end to be the wrong way around and the connections get scrambled.

You really want to power off and read a manual for the PC hard drive controller if you can. Make sure the cables are all connected correct way around, these older ones are tricky sometimes.

The reason you can usually do it from the Amiga side if you can suss out the controller is - you can usually get the PC going enough from floppy to mount the drive to DOS at least. That's one starting place.

This is not a SCSI or IDE drive, but if the drive spins at least, good chance you can pull the data from it, however it was setup to read to..

How good you can get Janus going to mount the PC hard drive from the Amiga is just a question of getting the right components, after that, should access OK. Sounds like it. One attempt if the circuitry on the drive has died is to try to find an identical circuit board, that can be swap out replaced on most types. Spinning drive healthy or savable mostly..

One very handy thing to know about working with old PCs. Digital Research DOS. It's very handy if you need a boot disk that will get you to a DOS prompt on a real PC. Works usually on emulators too, but you want about 5.31, not much later if any. DOS is DOS nearly 100% on these early PCs. You don't have to touch microsoft products to do it, but that's another way.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 11:13:46 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820121
OK. You might never be able to boot off the PC disk to get the PC hard disk to get going, but you should be able to get access to the data. Very good chance of it.
How good you can get Janus going to mount the PC hard drive from the Amiga is just a question of getting the right components, after that, should access OK. Sounds like it. One attempt if the circuitry on the drive has died is to try to find an identical circuit board, that can be swap out replaced on most types. Spinning drive healthy or savable mostly..

 First.  IF any HW is broken, I give up (not worth it).  But I don't think so, other than age, it might be ok since my own.
 
 Hmmn.  I'm examining the Boot Sequence.  
 
 "DJmount" is missing.  I assume this is part of Janus.
 
 Where can I get the DJmount package?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Matt_H on January 19, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
That's the key - the command "DJMount". There is an Amiga partition on the PC hard drive. That command mounts it as the Amiga device JH0:. The subsequent commands reassign the system paths to the hard drive.

The command "rbk pc/pcdisk" may also be important for getting the PC side to boot, but I'm not certain. I'm wondering if it might be the driver for the hard disk controller.

So, the question is whether the command DJMount is self-contained (i.e., could you just boot from another Janus disk and run that command) or whether it calls a config file elsewhere on the disk (a JH0: entry in the file devs:mounlist or something else).

A Bridgeboard or Janus manual would answer these questions. I'm sure there are (English) PDF versions kicking around somewhere online.

Since you have Amiga Explorer, try to make an ADF image of the disk for safekeeping. It might be able to bypass the error (if the error isn't too severe) and give you a clean copy.

You're making progress! I think we'll get this.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 11:15:28 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820120
Here is the Original Workbench Disk that I used to Boot this Amiga With.

(snip)

So you're able to read the startup-sequence of the floppy disk but you can't boot from it because it gives an error, correct?

Sounds like the disk might not be too far gone, then.  Try doing a "set echo on" or have it print a line after each command runs.  That should allow you to easily trace which command or sector on the disk has gone bad.  You could try replacing just the file or files on the faulty disk, but my recommendation would be to create a new boot disk - copy over everything from your existing disk (that works) and replace just the commands that fail.  Voila, you should have new boot disk!  :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Matt_H on January 19, 2017, 11:28:41 PM
@ Oldsmobile_Mike

Well said!

@ wbrejnia

All signs so far point to this being a software issue rather than a hardware one. DJMount is part of the Janus package - it should be on that disk in the C: directory. As long as the file containing the drive geometry is intact (although we have yet to figure out exactly what that is) you should be able to get the system working with the tools that you have. As Mike said, you'll need to create a new boot floppy, probably mixing and matching files from a few different disks. Get a few blank disks ready :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 19, 2017, 11:34:53 PM
Using DJMount or other Mount with a drive of this era has one issue - you cannot automount. You must have a mountlist entry. Values to write one (they're are few lines of text) are usually written on the drive where you can read them. It is typical for this kind of hard drive not to automount.

ide or scSI drive on mount, this is old school.

Also, janus has it's own library, I assume that is present in some form where the Amiga can get it. From the original boot floppy. Or a working copy anyway, working to the point where you can get most of it into a working booting floppy. That's the AmigaBootdisk in the download, so if you combine the two somehow, that should get you some bits going at least. Copying old onto new would be best, libs, devs, c, l, any other directories. You might not need the actual startup sequence from the old one.

Old one maybe has mountlist in L to use to mount PC hard disk? Sidecar obviously where Janus lives.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 19, 2017, 11:51:52 PM
Thanks "Pat" and "Matt" for helping and providing inspiration.

My Name is Actually "Wally", and I'm not going to give up.

My next mission is DJmount. Startup-Sequece has it, but disk does not.

My mind is starting to hurt, and I need a break. Will be back soon.

Break Time :)

Tried these two Floppies. Still work. Wish the Workbench did too....

This is my all time favorite, Coin Op Clone of "Missile Command"
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/707/32034096560_8e5dafb052_b.jpg)

And of Course this one too.....

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/780/32034095570_779bd6dffb_o.jpg)

BOTH HAVE GREAT SOUND. Even my 15 year old was impressed and tried it.

Back soon....Stay Tuned...(Hope you are having fun tagging along).
 
 THIS (HARD DRIVE PEEK MISSION Game Isn't over Yet)
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/406/31569149014_a4a3227de2_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 19, 2017, 11:59:35 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820128
My next mission is DJmount. Startup-Sequece has it, but disk does not.

Then this may be the file that's corrupt on your boot floppy.

Create your new floppy using the process we described earlier, then try obtaining a new copy of DJMount from the Janus software download disks on Amiga Hardware Database (using the link I provided previously).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 20, 2017, 12:05:52 AM
(Facepalm) sorry I thought you had Bridgeboard software download already? If not;-

http://www.cbmfreaks.com/?p=63

You can find lumps of Janus on Aminet too, IIRC.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=aminet+janus&t=canonical&ia=web

It can be dangerous to DL too much, it got lots of software. You want version compatible with your BB hardware.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Matt_H on January 20, 2017, 12:06:33 AM
@ Wally

I was looking at documentation for the A2386 and the A1060, other Bridgeboards that also use the Janus software. According to those docs, DJMount appears to be self contained. It's apparently able to detect the partition layout on hard disks connected to the PC side and automatically mount Amiga partitions. This is good news. In case that floppy disk can't be salvaged, you should still be able to mount the hard drive from another Janus disk.

I'm surprised that DJMount isn't on that disk. It should be in the C: directory. Can you check again? Another possibility is that your system originally booted with that disk in DF0: and another disk in DF2:. Can you post a picture of the very beginning of the startup-sequence? I'm wondering if there are some commands in there that would indicate a dual-floppy boot setup.

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that ultimate success depends on the hard drive itself still being functional. I don't think we've definitively confirmed that yet. But progress is being made!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 20, 2017, 12:14:39 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;820131
Another possibility is that your system originally booted with that disk in DF0: and another disk in DF2:.

That is an excellent point!

Do you remember back when you used to use this system, did you have to have a disk in both drives in order for it to boot?  Odd system, in any case.  Basically a bare-bones Amiga (not even the 1MB Agnus), but with a whole bunch of expansions added on the Bridgeboard/PC side.  What did you use it for, back in the day?  Mostly PC software, I would assume.  :lol:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 12:18:38 AM
I'll be back (to read all your great info).

Have an appoint to fix my wife car [tire]. (Higher Priority than my Toys)

I'll leave you guys with this. It's two Photo's of me, set in my Man Cave Office, On Top of my Box of Disks....( Background is Fish tank in my Office Wall, one of two Tanks).

Yup. Me and my Commodore PET, and Me and my Commodore 64.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/644/32372533476_90a08f6f11_b.jpg)

I'm not as young as back then, but my spirit and enthusiasm for TOYS and playing is.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 20, 2017, 12:26:47 AM
OK, but another way if DJ mount isn't working is to start with a DOSbooting disk from the DL and put a DOS driver and mount command for the PC to fire up from floppy and access it.

That would confirm at least if the drive is good, bad or indifferent maybe.

One odd thing you can get with setting up bridgeboards is disk-validator virus. That might have been what took out the Amiga floppy working properly in the first place. Bridgeboard is from the era when that could be a problem. You ind of know you get it when you delete the file using hardware (ripper hardware like Action Replay)  and it keeps reappearing when you eject from the ripper. DV lives in L, you don't even need it really. The tricky bit can be making sure it doesn't keep coming back on you or crashing the system when you delete it.

The thing with Janus was, you could have drives setup anywhere mapped out anywhere. Very flexible in terms of what drives could be JH0 etc. hardware was very varied, so were names. That should be in L on the original boot floppy for the BB.

Also, DJMount might be autoconfig friendly all right, the issue is, that age of hard drive almost certainly isn't. Not all SCSI gear was either, sometimes you had to have a manual entry, typing MOUNT XYZ: from l/mountlist.pc or similar, where the second was a path to a little txt file.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 03:05:08 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820133
That is an excellent point!

Do you remember back when you used to use this system, did you have to have a disk in both drives in order for it to boot? Odd system, in any case. Basically a bare-bones Amiga (not even the 1MB Agnus), but with a whole bunch of expansions added on the Bridgeboard/PC side. What did you use it for, back in the day? Mostly PC software, I would assume. :lol:

I can't remember exactly how I used it.  That is the biggest mystery.
 I know I played games a lot but that was probably from Floppies.
 I think I used it for School on the PC Side, for Enginering (DOS programs).
 
 We'll figure it out.
 
 I'm working on putting together the AmigaExplorer PC to be able to get Downloads.  
 
 BUT FIRST WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE HARD DRIVE is properly hooked up with the ribbon cables (I think it's right).  But the Controller side ribbon cable can go either way as show below.  
 
 So there are 4 Possible ways.  I think one of the specs you sent show the proper ribbon connections.
 
 See below:
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/572/32374456316_9799f98ea4_o.jpg)
 
 The Hard Drive side fits only one way.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/649/32263507222_e37c88fb5c_o.jpg)
 
 I'll check around for DJmount.
 What is the command for doing a "Dir" but see is page by page.  My unix skills would say "dir | more" but that doesn't work.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 04:30:17 AM
Both you guys know a lot.

I am digesting this and possibly thinking is more complicated than is it.

After checking Cabling (which I think is correct), I am going to go thru all my disks as See which has "DJmount"  or download it and run it (to see what happens)
 
 I'm also going to read up on AmigaDos Command and what editors I can use. (Hey it's been a while).  I'll catch up quickly.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 04:51:42 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820135
OK, but another way if DJ mount isn't working is to start with a DOSbooting disk from the DL and put a DOS driver and mount command for the PC to fire up from floppy and access it.

Sound like I have a couple options:

1) AMIGA SIDE (DJmount and hopefully have access to JH0: )
2) DOS Side (Boot DOS from Floppy, but Need Driver for Controller and have access to C: Drive).  I looked for DOS Drivers few years ago, but no luck.  Will try again.

I have a 3rd option to suggest (LAST RESORT)

I have a 286 Fully loaded PC (with Hard Drive, CD) All on a similar ribbon Cable (IDE I think). I tried this before with no success but hooked up the Hard Drive (replace the CD drive) on that 286 Machine. I gave up, but still have that 286 Windows PC. I think it didn't work since this is NOT a IDE drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 05:06:55 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820114
The dual connection just means it's an RLL or MFM type hard drive, has nothing to do with the drive being visible on the Amiga side.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ST-506 (see the picture of the controller connected to the drive)

Perfect.  I compared my cables and everything matches.  Thus my labeling from couple of years ago is correct.  
 
 ** HDD to Controller CABLING ALL GOOD, moving forward **
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 07:06:11 AM
STUCK (but I got really FAR ! :) )
 
 Compiling Screen Shots and progress.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 08:36:00 AM
So here is how far I got.

Basically I have a working Bridgeboard disk that I can actually boot from.

-> I used the disk to boot, followed instructions from README

-> PC Booted MS DOS from Floppy (Which is nothing new)

-> Then I ran the SAME commands like on my WORKBENCH DISK

Things Worked.

-> But no HARD DRIVE PICKED UP by Either the Amiga or the PC

Could this mean Hard DRIVE IS TOAST / Maybe Controller Board?
* NOT GIVING UP THAT EASY. I think they are fine **

There are Install Scripts on that Bridgeboard disk that copy stuff to a working Workbench Disk (personal one).

I like the idea of making a new WORKBENCH disk and copy over what I had, and see if things work.

My SUSPICION is there are config files missing on the GENERIC "Bridgeboard DISK". Drive Mappings, Mount points etc.

HERE ARE SHOTS of What I did, and how things worked

Any idea's on next steps???

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/604/32039199690_326585925a_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/768/32377799856_b408074809_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/449/32039750590_134c9ca33e_b.jpg)

I have BLANK Floppies ready.

Over to you guys for your advice.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 08:53:04 AM
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS (So I can sleep without thinking about this too much) :

a) I may need a DOS driver for the Hard Drive Controller

b) Maybe the Hard drive is assigned another letter other than c:

Could try more drive letters, or run some kind of DOS utility to discovery what drives are available

I have a full suite of MSDOS disk available (in 2.5" disk format), and I could copy them over to a 5.25" disk to run on the PC-Amiga

c) I've been thinking of an Alternative (Use the OLD 286 Standalone PC and maybe put the WD Hard Drive Controller Card into it and hook of the HARD DRIVE in the Amiga
- If it has a slot that matches the Controller Board. (It should)

d) Build up a NEW WORKBENCH disk (from bits and pieces, including my OLD WORKBENCH disk and the BRIDGEBOARD DISK.

e) SOMETHING ELSE
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: paul1981 on January 20, 2017, 11:24:15 AM
Have you tried all this with your old ROM chip? Maybe parts of the software aren't working correctly with 3.1...perhaps DJMount isn't. I don't have such a setup but perhaps others can answer this.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: gary2000 on January 20, 2017, 02:52:43 PM
Could it be a BIOS setting?  Where you define the sectors and all that?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: paul1981;820162
Have you tried all this with your old ROM chip? Maybe parts of the software aren't working correctly with 3.1...perhaps DJMount isn't. I don't have such a setup but perhaps others can answer this.

 I have old ROM chip, I could pop in.
 But waiting for more input since don't want to take things apart quite yet.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 20, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820179
I have old ROM chip, I could pop in.
 But waiting for more input since don't want to take things apart quite yet.


I wouldn't take anything apart except to replace broken pieces. If you're 100% certain it worked when you put it away...  how would anything change on it's own?  Of course it sounds like you already took the hard drive and stuff out, so I guess that idea's out the window! :lol:

I'd revisit the issue of that disk, however. Reconstruct a new copy of your boot disk, replacing the missing/damaged/corrupt files with new copies. Carefully inspect the Startup-Sequence, as was mentioned earlier, for if it also needs a disk in the 5.25" drive to be able to boot.

...I'm going to laugh when after all this, you're able to access the contents of that old hard drive, and all you find is copies of your 9th grade homework assignments, lol. :lol:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 05:49:50 PM
Here is a clue.

The MS DOS Floppy disk that I have has the "fdisk" command.

I ran it, and it doesn't pick up any disks as below. (Below is MS DOS window in Amiga). THERE IS A 5.25" MS Dos Floppy in there or else it doesn't boot (so PC is fine)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/587/32424916615_7222e408ff_b.jpg)

So until that PC side see's the Hard Drive, I see no way the Amiga side could see it. (Even running PCdisk on Amiga side, would only pick up Drive available on PC Side).

"DJmount" as show above runs fine. (NO Error Messages, it enables bridgeboard to work perfectly. And doesn't see any Hard Disk, and that could be fine, just like no Controller Card/HDD)

I played around with the (Controller-HDD) ribbon cables since the picture showed one flipped around. Doesn't help.

I wonder if a Controller driver is needed for the HARD DRIVE to work with the Controller card.

** IDEA#1: I'm thinking is either Borrow a working Controller Card from the 286, maybe even the Hard drive, since that 286 has driver software **
** IDEA#2 Reverse: Put AMIGA's Controller Card & Hard Drive into 286PC. Both with that Same 5.25" floppy and run "Fdisk" **
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 06:03:50 PM
HERE IS THE 286 PC.

That Controller CARD slot in the Amiga is much shorter, but I haven't looked close enough.
This 286 for it's time was a Fully Loaded Power PC (must have been upgrade since it has a CD-ROM).

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/408/32047084380_035f0d2764_b.jpg)

I boot it up and refresh my memory.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 20, 2017, 06:05:45 PM
The controller card isn't an "Amiga card", per se.  It's just a regular 8-bit ISA hard drive controller card manufactured for PC's of that era.  It's not anything specialized for use in an Amiga/busboard configuration.

If you remove the card from your Amiga and install it in the PC, along with the cables and the drive, it may be able to read the PC side (once you wade through whatever antiquated configuration mess that might be, it's been 30 years since I've had to look into installing a hard drive in a DOS-based PC).  Obviously the PC won't be able to read any Amiga data that might be stored on any Amiga partition which might exist on the drive.

Here's another wacky idea though, totally out of left field and not sure if it would work, but what about PC-Task?  The software-based PC emulator for Amiga.  Again, not something I've played with in decades, but I know people still use it today and that it can even be used to install things like Windows 95 on an Amiga.  Might PC-Task have any capability (perhaps with a more intuitive user interface) to communicate with the bridgeboard and through that to the hard drive controller and hard drive?  Just a thought, any PC-Task experts around here?  :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 20, 2017, 06:09:50 PM
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors.  Like this:

(http://www.wbochar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ISA-300x300.jpg)

Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well.  :D
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820190
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors. Like this:

Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well. :D

 Good to know, but this project will end at the HARD Drive.
 Then I'll probably put the whole setup up for sale. (Maybe).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 20, 2017, 06:38:36 PM
SETUP (What I have to play with)
 
 Goes a few Generations eh?
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/473/32274531992_b9521e90f1_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 20, 2017, 09:24:00 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820154
My SUSPICION is there are config files missing on the GENERIC "Bridgeboard DISK". Drive Mappings, Mount points etc.


tThis is the case.

It is very likely these are present on your "Original Janus" Amiga disk, and you should examine the directory contents and compare it to the Download "Modern Janus" Amiga floppy. That's the Janus side. In theory, there were not many changes to to the original release and specification for compatibility. In practice, some parts changed a lot to retain compatibility with different AMIGADOS releases. But it was a big thing for CBM to keep BB compatible with all Amigas. Less so for Escom and later.

On cable connections, the best way to be SURE they are connected is to get a pin diagram for each end and check that way. Then you are sure they are connected properly and that issue is resolved, but it is critical component of any solution.

This could stop even a real PC accessing the PC hard drive, with a correct floppy disk set to mount the hard drive correctly for PC DOS use. Let alone expecting an Amiga to work properly. FDisk is a good way to check for connection on the PC side, but I am not sure it would pick it up for a drive of this age, if the drive was formatted to a weirdo Amiga compatible filesystem. It should, but the standards were different then, and there were limitations in reading or even connecting "alien" devices.

BB are a bit weird, because they have shared busses, one side can talk to the others devices even if the other is technically "crashed" or hasn't been booted to an operating system. That was the whole idea, and it's what made BB so much better (more expensive though) than an emulator. Either side could have a problem, and losing the Amiga side usually lost you bits done by that (things like keyboard input) but that didn't matter sometimes.

Another point - the HD controller card might be dead, rather than the HD itself. Might need replacing.

When / If you do get file access to the drive, your first action should be to dump the contents to a suitable directory, that can take FFS sized file names and directories, of a larger area than the drive. You only get one guaranteed shot at reading the data, if you do reach that stage, so retain it as your first and top priority.

Relying on that hard drive to keep operating is not a good plan. If the read head is misalligened and gouges the disk surface as it starts reading the data, you destroy everything as you preserve it. Seen that happen. Not a pretty sight. This is why you "PARKed" a drive before turning the system off. The heads didn't park themselves safely in most drives. SCSI and IDE usually don't have that problem much if at all and are quite happy, so long as they are not shut down midstream.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 20, 2017, 10:04:58 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820190
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors.  Like this:

Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well.  :D

I'd forgotten you could do that, and some Amigas, you had to. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 03:17:45 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820203

On cable connections, the best way to be SURE they are connected is to get a pin diagram for each end and check that way. Then you are sure they are connected properly and that issue is resolved, but it is critical component of any solution.

 That's a great idea.  My top priority before I move forward with the rest of your great ideas.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 03:22:13 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820190
FYI, on an unrelated note, if you do intend to get this system running again and expanding it into a dual Amiga/PC workstation, you can also extend those last two 8-bit ISA slots into 16-bit by adding the missing connectors. Like this:

(http://www.wbochar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ISA-300x300.jpg)

Although if you're going to do that I'd look into getting a faster model bridgeboard, as well. :D

 This could be an option.  Later
 
 But what I would be interested in more so, is replacing the Current Ancient Hard Drive.
 
 I have a pile of Hard Drives that I have from replacing most of our 7 home computers (family of 5), with SSD drives.  
 
 I'd like to use them for an AMIGA HARD DRIVE and Possibly and IBM Hard drive.
 
 What are my options for both.  Higher priority would be to have an Amiga Hard Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 03:32:26 AM
I have some cabling specs as shown below (Thanks for that link)

I think I should be able to confirm the Controller Ribbon cabling by just looking for the MANY Grounds on each side.
 
 There are only 3 ways (not 4), and [ Hard Drive Connector is slotted so only one way to connect]

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/679/32054101570_cd6a1115e8_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 03:42:34 AM
I have to say Wbrejnia does the best photos with custom labelling that I have ever seen on an Amiga forum (:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 03:55:06 AM
Quote from: darkage;820233
I have to say Wbrejnia does the best photos with custom labelling that I have ever seen on an Amiga forum (:

Thanks for the appreciation. I built up the skills from my other Forum Posts (Fish Tank Stuff).
If you think this is good labeling and photos check One of my Tank Threads out. This is my Aquarium Lighting System build (one of many detailed Threads). http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2510779

Anyways, there is a reason I'm trying to document detailed. It help me track my findings in one place, and hoping it will help others too if they ever face similar challenges like me.
 
 Also when/If I sell this Amiga, it will come with a Binder of all my documentation.  All the disks, freshly copied, etc (So the next person inherits a nice complete system).

I wish I could change the "wbrejnia" ID. I did that years ago, and wish it could be "WallyB" since my first name is Wally. Which I use on all other forums. Can a Admin Change that?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 04:06:00 AM
On the TOPIC of Photo's and Labeling.
 
 You should get a copy of SnagIt.  It's the best Photo Capture, cropping, labeling, Video All in one tool.  Quick, Easy.  I use at work, and even my kids used at school.  (Worth every penny the few bucks).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 04:47:18 AM
I normally use PicPick since they provide a free limited version.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 05:15:12 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820229
so, is replacing the Current Ancient Hard Drive.
 
 I have a pile of Hard Drives that I have from replacing most of our 7 home computers (family of 5), with SSD drives.  
 
 I'd like to use them for an AMIGA HARD DRIVE and Possibly and IBM Hard drive.
 
 What are my options for both.  Higher priority would be to have an Amiga Hard Drive.

Depends on what type of connector they have. I would reckon most if not all would have 40 pin IDE connectors. Legacy (old) A2000 HD controllers are nearly all SCSI.

Even if all the drives you have are SATA type, there are solutions, but let us know what you have before people start recommending "ideal" solutions.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 05:40:46 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820242
Depends on what type of connector they have. I would reckon most if not all would have 40 pin IDE connectors. Legacy (old) A2000 HD controllers are nearly all SCSI.

Even if all the drives you have are SATA type, there are solutions, but let us know what you have before people start recommending "ideal" solutions.

I do have spare Sata drives and also ATA . (WD136BA-00AKA1 is one ATA example).

I rather used the ATA/IDE since SATA's are good for BULK storage even on modern computers since SSD have re-write limits (Price too)

So what in the Amiga and PC do I need for ATA/IDE drive re-use? Some controller cards I guess to start. But want something I can setup easy and find drivers (something proven, no hacking, and can find exactly how to setup).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 05:50:24 AM
Here are a few SPARE STORAGE Choices, a Few From my parts Shelf.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/510/32055610800_920b16c20e_b.jpg)
 
 Hard to believe that at work we used to pay $400 for the 8 MB card to keep our Network Hub Configs preserved.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 06:38:28 AM
Well, the main contenders on the left are all IDE. The laptop drives top right might be IDE or SATA. All my opinion, I haven't tried looking ever for an IDE controller for the A2000 - But - ;-

It's not going to be that easy to get an IDE controller for the A2000. Not without searching a lot of Amiga market places online. Bhudda was one such, there are others listed in the hardware databases, the snag is finding someone willing to sell. Be wary that all will fit, some are Zorro 3 and so only fit an A3000 or A4000.

A good alternative (IF you can find a seller) are the ICD A500 controllers. These work by unplugging the CPU, plugging in the board, and plugging the CPU on top. Very nice solution, but very rare now. They fit A2000s too. Not a card expansion but they do work very nicely.

Now the above 2 paragraphs could be untrue, there might be a commercial source still. I couldn't find one, but like I said, I never really tried to look for one before. Others here are way way more experienced than I am at finding Amiga equipment.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 07:40:00 AM
A2000 ide controller on ebay.de

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tandem-IDE-Harddisk-Controller-fur-Amiga-2000-und-Amiga-3000-/192079037730?hash=item2cb8cd8522:g:y-8AAOSwImRYe4b2
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 07:48:58 AM
Hmmm. Maybe IDE isn't the way.

Don't want to be looking for old and possibly broken cards, with hard to find drivers. (But I can consider as last resort).

The Other drives are SATA since replace with SATA SSD.
One is 450 GB, so plenty for an Amiga.

Are there better more modern solutions for the A2000 for SATA?
 
 Or what about Compact Flash (seems to be a solution for this)?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 07:49:55 AM
Good work darkage. Obviously me searching on "A2000" was not the best way. ;)

Reason I never seriously had to search for Amiga equipment - I either fixed what I had or it stayed broken until it was fixed.

Nah, that card should work good. It is not that easy to blow up a HD controller.

Only person I know of that offers warranties with their Amiga gear is me. Haven't got IDE card. Sorry.

SATA-IDE convertors not that hard to get, but watch out - some of them you can't boot with.

Also, first partition on a hard drive has to be less than 4GB, and most people stick with 2 or less. Plenty. There are various patches out there for bigger drives, but they usually insist on later (2.1, 3.0, and upwards) Kickstart ROMs in the Amiga. Using more on different partitions works, but you are much smarter to stick with 2GB sized paritions. OS is 32 bit, remember.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 07:57:11 AM
And will that IDE card have easy to find drivers?

Would this Compact Flash I found on German Ebay be easier, Cheaper?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/NEU-3-5-IDE-to-CF-Compact-Flash-Hard-Drive-Festplatte-Amiga-4000-3000-2000-/132062592434?hash=item1ebf8b3db2:g:scwAAOSwubRXMdPl
 
 Sorry, I just glanced and didn't know this was IDE to CF. (Not what I need)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 08:05:07 AM
CF is more geared towards A600/A1200 users, who have both IDE and PCMCIA built in.

A2000 has neither of those. Usually CF or SD into IDE is cheapest solution, but not in your case.

A2000 cards are NEVER the cheapest. Unfair I know. But, at least they are not as pricey as Zorro3 cards. Maybe 3 times the price?

EDIT: Tandem driver is here. Site has quite a lot of support for Amiga hardware;-

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tandem

And the nice part is - you can get CD-ROM attached real easy too, easier than A1200 or A600.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:13:48 AM
Not that I'm going to spend more money on this A2000.
 
 But what about this.
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Commodore-Amiga-A2091-SCSI-Card-with-210mb-Harddrive-2MB-of-Fast-Ram-OS-3-1-/222378950299?hash=item33c6d17e9b:g:v8oAAOSw-0xYe7mN
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:15:13 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820253
EDIT: Tandem driver is here. Site has quite a lot of support for Amiga hardware;-

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tandem

And the nice part is - you can get CD-ROM attached real easy too, easier than A1200 or A600.

Interesting. Thanks.  I'll watch that auction just for fun.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 08:16:59 AM
Not worth it $76. A2091 maybe worst ever SCSI controller for Amiga. Max Partition size is 256MB. Only allows one partition per drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:25:04 AM
I did a search in my area Kijiji.

Found WebSite. (Thought it was a seller, but some kind of Search Engine)

Anything here useful for me

http://reduto.ca/Amiga%202000?p=scb&gclid=CIaklNjn0tECFdi6wAodOLUANg&search=Amiga+2000

** Never mind, it's just a search front for Ebay and places *
 
 But hey.   Isn't this the Card I have??
 
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Western-Digital-Disk-Drive-Controller-WD1002A-27X-ships-worldwide/151135715827?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35909%26meid%3D6c26b0ca2f004291a1594ab724393169%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D192079037730%26clkid%3D2018258828725410600&_qi=RTM2247628
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820252
And will that IDE card have easy to find drivers?


Pretty much all drivers can be found on this site -  http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/tandem

Has the user manual there too.   Main downside with this card is theres no autobooting.  

You could get a scsi controller and then use a scsi to ide bridge. but they can be expesive.  like $100 to $150 for the bridge adapter.  

I would check all the controllers released and short list a few you like -  http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/scsi  

Then post a wanted add on amibay.com or monitor the for sale section.

Heres  GVP Impact SCSI controller -  http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?89173-GVP-Impact-A2000-HC-8-series-II-A2000-A3000-A4000-SCSI-controller


Someone did do a electronics project to reverse engineer the a1200 or a600 gayle ide interface for a a500, etc. Theres schematics online.    These should work for a2000, just have to check for space restrictions.

some ppl have done custom projects, you may want to check with them if it fits within a a2000 case.  

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?51339-Amiga-500-4-8mb-fastmem-boards-with-IDE&highlight=kipper

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?7158-A500-IDE-adapters-PS-2-mouse-adapter-A600-CF-adapter
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:40:52 AM
Darkage.

So what does no autoboot mean exactly.?
The amiga will power up. I'll need to put in a Workbench disk into Floppy Drive.

Then do something to boot the Amiga off the Hard drive.

Correct?  Or something else.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 08:46:04 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820257

 
 But hey.   Isn't this the Card I have??
 
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Western-Digital-Disk-Drive-Controller-WD1002A-27X-ships-worldwide/151135715827?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35909%26meid%3D6c26b0ca2f004291a1594ab724393169%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D192079037730%26clkid%3D2018258828725410600&_qi=RTM2247628


Looks like a PC ISA card which you can only use with the bridgeboard in emulation mode ?

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2386sx

Past discussion about it http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4322

For regular amiga disk controller if no autoboot, then you need to use floppies to boot into WB and load the drivers for the controller.    If it had autoboot then it would have boot code within onboard ROMS so no floppy startup required.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: darkage;820260
Looks like a PC ISA card which you can only use with the bridgeboard in emulation mode ?

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2386sx

Past discussion about it http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4322

For regular amiga disk controller if no autoboot, then you need to use floppies to boot into WB and load the drivers for the controller. If it had autoboot then it would have boot code within onboard ROMS so no floppy startup required.

Yikes. That's almost as hard as me figuring out my Hard Drive Access problem.

Time to get back on the original track which is....

Figure if I can get access to my HD (somehow). Trying the Workbench disk rebuild sounds like my best effort at this point. (IT may work!!)

Wow time has flown. It's 4am here in Canada (Toronto).
Till tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 08:52:32 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820259
Darkage.

So what does no autoboot mean exactly.?
The amiga will power up. I'll need to put in a Workbench disk into Floppy Drive.

Then do something to boot the Amiga off the Hard drive.

Correct?  Or something else.

Close. The floppy mounts the hard disk into the system and then you can transfer boot to that. A standard WB floppy would not have the handler (l), driver (.dev) for the hard drive. You could copy them onto a WB floppy, then adjust the startup with a MOUNT command.

It is far from ideal. I guess one thing about an A2090A - you could connect the existing hard drive to it. (shudder)... I thought you said you wanted a faster solution, so that probably is a backwards step.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 21, 2017, 09:05:45 AM
This seems like a great price so far on ebay.ca, no bids and one more day left.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-GVP-Impact-A2000-HC-8-Series-II-Rev-II-A2000-A3000-A4000-/122314705339?hash=item1c7a8649bb:g:~BMAAOSwA3dYflif

info on card - http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/impact2000hc8  

Scsi so need scsi to ide bridge adapter.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 09:12:43 AM
One last question so I can sleep knowing I sent this out, and I'll be prepared to get some progress tomorrow.

CLONING THE BROKEN (Workbench disk for my Amiga) STEPS:

Remember I'm a Rookie, but can learn fast as I go along....

1) I make a new Workbench disk (Hopefully same version of Workbench)
2) I copy over as many files as I can from my OLD Workbench disk to the New Workbench disk. (Overwriting them, or Delete and Copy)

3) If some give read errors, they won't copy
4) What files should I be targeting from the Old Workbench disk (with hope that I can get this Hard Disk to recognize)

*** Will also try one of the Disk Recovery tools on that workbench disk (but less reading is best to keep it alive). **
*** I do have a couple of Workbench disks labelled as for this setup, so might have to use both to get the files I need **

Of course all above will be done painfully slow, so I'll work on ensure that cabling is correct between the Controller and the HD.

All above steps seem right?
 
 ** OH one question to save me time, and stress on amiga. It there a keyboard sequence to reboot it to try workbench disks ** Right now I power off and on **
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 21, 2017, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820268
** OH one question to save me time, and stress on amiga. It there a keyboard sequence to reboot it to try workbench disks ** Right now I power off and on **

CTRL+AMIGA+AMIGA

Yes, make that new Workbench disk. Good luck! :)

Btw - nice setup in that earlier pic! :D
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 06:27:01 PM
Question on SCSI interface connectors (MAY HAVE Plenty of SCSI Drives)

I just remembered something....

Since I was a SUN administrator years ago at work (before SUN Equip. got replaced). I built many SUN Systems, including RAID Storage, etc.

At work in my Storage Room I have a ton of SCSI Drives in a box (at least 10-30).

If I buy that card [COMMODORE AMIGA GVP Impact A2000-HC+8 Series II Rev II A2000, A3000, A4000] on Ebay will one of those SCSI Drives work with this Card.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/267/32322218021_ae8a4324d8_b.jpg)

My point is I'm not sure what kind of Interface Connector those SCSI Drives have. I assume there are many generations and Rev Versions of Signalling (But SCSI may have some standards).

Regardless of the connector, would there be a conversion cable to make them work?

I would have to drive to my Storage Room which is about a hour away (To have a look at them).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 21, 2017, 06:49:12 PM
A2091 uses a 50 pin SCSI cable for internal devices (as do most Amiga SCSI cards). Other common sizes are 68 pin and 80 pin. Yes, you can get adapters for all. Just watch out if you want to use drives larger than 4GB (which would be a whole other can of worms for you). ;)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 06:51:32 PM
When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 21, 2017, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820303
When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).


Don't partition more than the first 4GB of available capacity. Large hard drive support was included in later versions of the operating system, via various methods. If you were (for example) to upgrade your Amiga to run OS 3.9, it would be pretty easy. With 3.1 it's doable (again through various hacks/patches/modifications). 2.1 or older it would be a real struggle.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 07:17:54 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820303
When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).

SCSI is beautiful. What Mike means is, there are different connector sizes.

Any 50 pin controller should work, any device (with some adaptors maybe, cheap). The later variants could go faster, but dropped down to Single Ended if that is what controller used, most A2000 solutions, cards, controllers in that bracket.

You will like SCSI on Amiga. Even with a Commodore card, GVP card. Maybe worst is A570 using expansion for CDTV, but they can do SCSI too.

You can only have 2GB partition sizes to be on the safe side. With the Amiga. There are ways around this, but that is "vanilla" pattern, for earlier versions anyway.

What is KickStart on the Amiga if you have not listed? That is maybe limiting fact. I will check.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 07:18:03 PM
Working on the Workbench disk today.

I'm getting sidetracked with this A2000 HD future thing (ie SCSI)

I have 4 projects on the go, and the A2000 Wasn't on that list.
I was clearing my workbench for other projects when I powered up the A2000 to see if it still worked (Big BLACK HOLE mistake).

Here is the project I need to finish. Custom Doser system for my Fish Tanks. (Ardiuno Mega). HW built/Wired(75%), SW Coding (75%).

Fish tanks are waiting for me to finish it. Once done automation will give me more time to play with the A2000.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/526/32322953961_c224c0e326_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/591/32444160765_9ea045d68d_b.jpg)

Other projects on my TO DO LIST:

- A Raspberry PI Project Fish Tank Controller Interface (Linux)
- SDK project for COZMO the Robot for my son to learn programming (Python/Andriod)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 07:33:57 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820305
What is KickStart on the Amiga if you have not listed? That is maybe limiting fact. I will check.

I have 3 KickStart chips.

2x) Original KickStart 1.2 and a Spare.
1x) KickStart 1.3 (Inside A2000 now). I put in a couple years ago when trying to get things working. Also I did this to see the Newer Workbench for fun.

Should I put back the Original 1.2 to make it the Original A2000? (Could the CHIP upgrade to 1.3 be causing my current issues?)
If I do that, I'd take the opportunity to remove the old Original nMH Battery (it hasn't leaked but it's a ticking time bomb).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 07:36:30 PM
Hey, cool fish. (Paws screen)

What you got here is a very very old A2000 that has never been upgraded. Some of this stuff is quite rare. Like the 1.2 Kickstart, you did post on first page, together with Skinny Agnus and OCS Denise.

You would have to upgrade KS to enable autobooting on ANY hard drive system? I don't know if you could ever do that on a Bridgeboard, autoboot with a PC drive from the Amiga side...

Also, to fit a ROM size of 512K is a soldering job, perhaps. You might just have to go for 2.04 or 2.1 (if you can find) otherwise, this era of A2000 is the first phase, rev 4 mobo I think.

You also don't have any fast RAM as such, you have this weird stuff like on an A500 with a trapdoor. 512K chip ram too.

These things go very cheap sometimes, but their real worth is in how undamaged and pristine they are, on the inside and outside.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 07:37:28 PM
1.3 is good for autoboot pal, nothing to worry about. :)

Do check the controller will do so too, some of them didn't autoboot, sometimes ROM upgrade. Usually supported though, there is ton of support for this stuff if you look. :/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 07:59:04 PM
BACK TO THE Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive on PC side of Amiga

Let me clarify and get back to the original plan.

If I understand correctly. That HD controller [Western Digital WD1002A-27X] hooked up to my [RLL or MFM/ST ST-506] DH-drive has primarily nothing to do with the AMIGA side (other than being linked thru the Bridgeboard, when it get's exposed to the Amiga side)

So the clarification is when I boot the PC on the Amiga off the 5.25" disk, I don't have the original disk I booted years ago.

What I did it I got some 5.25" floppies and formatted a DOS boot disk using that 486 PC.

Thus I put that plain old DOS boot into the Floppy drive in the Amiga, and it boots DOS.

But it's just PLAIN DOS boot. No drivers for the controller (nothing).

Is it possible I really need some driver to load on that DOS boot to enable the controller. Once the controller activated, the Hard Disk might be recognized and things will be visible to PC and then thru Bridgeboard to the AMIGA.

So it my roadblock is the fact that the HD Controller isn't activated in DOS? (I assume it doesn't just get recognized with On board firmware and picked up on the PC side Bus as a available Drive)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820306

Here is the project I need to finish. Custom Doser system for my Fish Tanks. (Ardiuno Mega). HW built/Wired(75%), SW Coding (75%).

Fish tanks are waiting for me to finish it. Once done automation will give me more time to play with the A2000.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/526/32322953961_c224c0e326_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/591/32444160765_9ea045d68d_b.jpg)
Put a case, an SD card and encoder on it, it saves you SO much time setting them things up with Arduino dev. Otherwise it's a recompile, every setting. Write them down as you make, you can put in firmware source later.

Also be aware there can be reset issues when depending on Arduino Mega to operate continuously for weeks and months. You really have to understand power supplies and Arduino to get your head around it, but I KNOW it exists, because it played merry hell with getting in to RFID controlled doors monitored by A Megas. You have to strap extra hardware on to make it reliable. I am unsure of the exact details, but Nottingham Hackspace have some of the details on that I think. Their vending machine operates very very well continuosly - years in some cases. The mechs jam, displays get dislodged, but the Arduino is rock solid on that baby. Thank you Dominic Morrow, now THAT's a maker. The doors are pretty reliable now too.

All them folks is awesome in their own way. He builds things that are awesome. Including, you could say, Nottingham Hackspace. Their gits have some very good stuff on. They love open source. Send 'em my best wishes. No further comment.

https://github.com/NottingHack/opensource
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820312
Also be aware there can be reset issues when depending on Arduino Mega to operate continuously for weeks and months.
Thanks for the info. Is the Reset A Mega Issue or Generally with Any Ardiuno like Uno?

I already built a mini version of this Controller, and it's been running over a year.
Resets if they happen are not a problem. The code is written to handle resets very safely (This is after all dosing a fish tank and 50ml too much WILL WIPE OUT $2000 worth of corals in minutes). Default after reset is STOP and Wait for human intervention. (Plus I wrote in many safety measures (Max Limits), and feedback via PH probe).
There is a battery RTC Battery Clock module that keep the time/date for obvious reasons.
IT WILL BE 110% safety proof and extensively tested in a bucket for a while before 1 drop of chemical goes into my tanks.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 21, 2017, 08:22:04 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820311
Is it possible I really need some driver to load on that DOS boot to  enable the controller. Once the controller activated, the Hard Disk  might be recognized and things will be visible to PC and then thru  Bridgeboard to the AMIGA.

So it my roadblock is the fact that the HD Controller isn't activated  in DOS? (I assume it doesn't just get recognized with On board firmware  and picked up on the PC side Bus as a available Drive)
A vanilla DOS disk booting upcould not pick up a PC hard drive without the means to access it. This was put into BIOS on a real PC. On a Bridgeboard, the BIOS was fixed I think. You could not change it? Or maybe you can hack the thing, I don't know. You usually needed a device entry on config.sys at the time. Welcome to the stone age.

But I would  have thought a PC hard drive and controller of the time would have shipped with a floppy. PC or Amiga. Only later were controllers added to motherboards on real PCs.

I think the way it worked was, the Amiga side hacked off the PC side to access the PC hardware, so yes, you would need the drivers installed on the PC side.

With a DOS disk or a Bridgeboard.

Maybe just a Bridgeboard. If CBM had a generic ISA drieer that could access the controller directly, and there was a standard way to do that with that type of expansion, the PC could be just turned on and you could access it with Janus. I'm not convinced it could handle any ISA expansion, but if just HD controller type, then I guess maybe it could. Didn't really need it's own individual controller for the card as such. Genreic ISA-HD, connect, pump data.

There maybe hacks for doing some of that, and I call them hacks because it is very very naughty, technicaly. Some places, anyway. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 08:28:38 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820314
A vanilla DOS disk could not pick up a PC hard drive without the means to access it. This was put into BIOS on a real PC. On a Bridgeboard, the BIOS was fixed I think. You could not change it? Or maybe you can hack the thing, I don't know.

But I would have thought a PC hard drive and controller of the time would have shipped with a floppy. PC or Amiga. Only later were controllers added to motherboards on real PCs.
[/B]
I don't have that original disk for the controller. And as you say the Vanilla DOS disk isn't picking up the Hard Drive since nothing loaded.
I just contacted this company that sells the controller and they say they have drivers for the stuff they sell. http://www.radwell.ca/Buy/WESTERN%20DIGITAL/WD1002A27X?redirect=true (http://www.radwell.ca/Buy/WESTERN%20DIGITAL/WD1002A27X?redirect=true) (Wow $245 for that controller, Crazy)

I'll also dig around the web to see if I can find a dos driver/disk for the controller (It think this is my hurdle to solve the Hard Drive access)
So far I found this which is useful (but no SW) http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-disk-floppy-controllers/U-Z/WESTERN-DIGITAL-CORPORATION-Two-RLL-ST506-412-driv-219.html (mentions a DEBUG Utility to access Low Level Format Program)

** Seems like I need to get dlgmaker.exe to make a Driver Disk ** (but this looks like a Virus/Trojan)
I have to be really careful. Many of these SO CALL DRIVER download places try to get you to install Crap. (Will use a spare JUNK PC for trying this stuff)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 09:31:36 PM
TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE (Found some DISKS)

I gave up on finding Driver on the WEB.

So I decided to dig thru all the floppies and found these.

The one on the FAR right looks promising. Long Shot but keeping my fingers crossed.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/602/32406329066_809c434456_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 11:20:44 PM
WD1002-27X HD Controller & Octagon ST-506 Hard Drive
 
 Comparing the info I have and the way things are connected, I'm 90% sure the cabling is correct.
 
 Here an update to all the specs I have.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/32326887381_68a7ec09b8_b.jpg)
 
 Next is the DOS driver investigation.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 21, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
Western Digital DISK CONTENTS (Looking very Promising)

Check this out. I was searching the Internet (no luck) for DLGMAKER.exe which makes a WD Disk.

This may be the disk (Contents of Disk #3 in the Photo)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/285/32070177410_b9fb29b176_o.jpg)

Now all I need to do is copy over to a 5.25" for the Amiga DOS Drive, and try running some of these.
 
 Will check out the two .txt file to see what they say.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 01:17:58 AM
Almost Giving up.  (Couldn't get access to 5.25" drive, and now Lost C: Hard Drive on 486).  
 
 The first problem I faced is I could only see the 3.5" floppy, but not the 5.25".  I assumed first was a: and 2nd b:  (so that limits my ablity to create a 5.25" DOS disk)
 
 The 5.25" did work a few years ago since I was able to create the one Boot Disk I have.
 
 This computer seems to boot differently each time. Can't breath near it.
 
 So I played around with cables, and things are sensitive.
 
 I now can't see the C: drive.  Only D: is visible (even from BIOS)
 
 Progress is going backwards, and I'm losing energy and hope.
 
 The Western Digital Disk Does boot by itself, and here is what the program looks like.  Seem to be geared toward ATA drive, so seems hopeless.
 
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/503/32328506571_50d14f7160_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 01:32:10 AM
Some cable wiggling fixed the C: drive. 486 is back up.

But still can't see the 5.25" disk as B: drive. ( I vagely remember there was some trick to see the B: Drive. Like disconnecting the A: drive. What's weird is the BIOS show the 3.5" a: drive as a 5.25" a: drive.)
 
 The only hint I have is doing a "dir a:" or "dir b:" gives me listing of the same 3.5" disk drive.
 
 From Windows there is only an a: drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 22, 2017, 01:42:43 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820331
Some cable wiggling fixed the C: drive. 486 is back up.

But still can't see the 5.25" disk as B: drive. ( I vagely remember there was some trick to see the B: Drive. Like disconnecting the A: drive. What's weird is the BIOS show the 3.5" a: drive as a 5.25" a: drive.)
 
 The only hint I have is doing a "dir a:" or "dir b:" gives me listing of the same 3.5" disk drive.
 
 From Windows there is only an a: drive.


Not sure how you have it hooked but, but theres is normally a twist in the cable which shows which is A: and B:.  Then of course it has to be specified within the BIOS.  

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/fdd/confCable-c.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 22, 2017, 02:14:11 AM
I think I know why Janus isn't starting up. It was written to cover all of 5 different products with the same software. That means, you have to run PCPrefs and tell it everything properly first before a PC side hard drive can be accessed from the Amiga. That's on Page 30. It has to be told which kind of Bridgeboard is connected at least.

Further, the drive settings are complex, but there is a setting for a PC hard drive on a PC controller to be mounted automatically, if you know which kind of hard drive it is.

Do have a read, it's very good.

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 02:17:26 AM
ERROR IN THIS POST: (Removing for update)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 02:36:14 AM
Thanks for the Info ( Great Teamwork Here :) )

I've shown all I can below.

There is a twist in the cable. Both A: and B: are on same cable.

If I flip the Connector on the controller card the 5.25" B: drive light comes on and stay on (so wrong).

The connector on the 5.25" drive cannot be reverse due to slotted connector.

I even disconnect the 3.5" a: drive, and put the 5.25" b: drive as the 2nd connection on the cable (a: & b: ) or even  ( B: by itself) no luck.  Doesn't work on the latter since OS wasn't an A: drive to boot. (that could be changed in BIOS)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/323/32299261632_17a6eac4c5_b.jpg)


This is getting Crazy. We are not suppose to be fixing (TWO COMPUTERS). 3 if you count the Amiga a (2)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 22, 2017, 02:42:33 AM
OK, so you got a 486 to verify that the hard drive is showing partitions. (Hooray).

That's not helpful to getting the data off if it isn't PC data. You have to do that through the Bridgeboard via Janus.

You probably have one partition of each type, I would think. Logical, there are two partitions. Or maybe you have the BB PC HD and something else in the 486.

And you have to arrange somewhere for the data to fit, too. I'd back off the drive. Give it a rest.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 22, 2017, 02:50:12 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820336

I even disconnect the 3.5" a: drive, and put the 5.25" b: drive as the 2nd connection on the cable (a: & b: ) or even  ( B: by itself) no luck.  Doesn't work on the latter since OS wasn't an A: drive to boot. (that could be changed in BIOS)


Have you tried swapping the power connector to confirm that works ?  Not sure if the 5.25 floppy actually works.  You will need to do basic trouibleshooting like swapping power connector and confirm original one works on another device, changing ribbon cable if  you have a spare (if you dont have a spare push down on the end connectors to make sure its got a good bite into the cable), is there another I/O card with floppy controller you can swap it with.  maybe something is up with the card.     Would be good if you have a spare 5.25 floppy somewhere to swap with.

Edit - Off topic, but I would recommend picking up a gotek floppy emulator and try to do every off floppy images.     It needs a modified firmware to work on a amiga, but should work ootb on a regular pc.  

https://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/
http://amigastore.eu/en/323-usb-floppy-emulator-gotek.html  (already modified firmware, cheaper to get off ebay not modified)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 03:23:01 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820337
OK, so you got a 486 to verify that the hard drive is showing partitions. (Hooray).

That's not helpful to getting the data off if it isn't PC data. You have to do that through the Bridgeboard via Janus.

You probably have one partition of each type, I would think. Logical, there are two partitions. Or maybe you have the BB PC HD and something else in the 486.

And you have to arrange somewhere for the data to fit, too. I'd back off the drive. Give it a rest.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. THE 486 is the PC running Window 3.1 that I'm trying to get going to format a 5.25" disk for the bridgeboard PC.

The 486 is not the Amiga PC (that is the 8088 PC). I'm far from done.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 03:32:48 AM
Quote from: darkage;820338
Have you tried swapping the power connector to confirm that works ? Not sure if the 5.25 floppy actually works. You will need to do basic trouibleshooting like swapping power connector and confirm original one works on another device, changing ribbon cable if you have a spare (if you dont have a spare push down on the end connectors to make sure its got a good byte into the cable), is there another I/O card with floppy controller you can swap it with. maybe something is up with the card. Would be good if you have a spare 5.25 floppy somewhere to swap with.
All good ideas!!

I did the power connector swap. All good either way, either drive.

It could be the ribbon cable and the bite as you say, since I once did see the 5.25" disk drive light blink on boot. Going to dig for another cable from another old PC.
 
 If I had a spare 5.25" floppy in another computer my problem wouldn't exist.  I could do what I need to do on that PC.  This is the only 5.25" disk I have, but that does bring an Idea to mind.  Take out the 5.25" from the 486 and put into another computer.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 22, 2017, 03:52:24 AM
maybe even cleaning the edge connector on the floppy with some isopropyl alcohol might help ?

edit - its probably been 25 years since I touched a 5.25 floppy drive, but you might want to check it for jumper settings.  Looks like they came with termination settings.

http://blog.3b2.sk/igi/file.axd?file=2015%2F5%2F5.25-jumpers.pdf

Jumper settings on the floppy disk drives must not be changed from the default configuration
shown in the figures of the drives.
The only exception is the TM jumper (terminator), which must be removed when the 5.25"
drive is installed as the systems second drive. However, this terminator must be present if
the 5.25" drive is the only one present in the system. The terminator is always present on
3.5" drives, and is soldered on the board



Theres a cheap one for sale on ebay.ca  


http://preview.tinyurl.com/zez3qau

Edit - You could make a new friend http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71880

Look up manual for the controller card you are using

This might be helpful http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/working-with-st-506-interface-mfm-hard.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 05:30:07 AM
I will catch up on all your tips.
 
 This 486 Standalone PC issue shouldn't be happening.
 
 It worked before and has been sitting on shelf last two years.
 
 That B: 5.25" disk DRIVE worked and here is proof.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/283/32452585415_88580a1d7b_o.jpg)
 
 I label the disk with the command I used a couple of year ago.  Because I learned that time that the Amiga 5.25" need to be formatted a certain size.
 
 the command was as at the top of the floppy on the sticker.  
 
 Clearly says B: for the DRIVE
 
 and the command was....
 
 format b:/F:360 /s
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 05:59:30 AM
LONG SHOT Possibility for B: Drive Not working.

To be Clear this is the 486 Windows PC (no B: Drive) , not the Amiga.

I was thinking of pulling out the 5.24" drive out for the Explorer computer

As I pulled out the cable I notice this.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/307/32452966635_65c0fcdbda_o.jpg)

It's perforated from a previously connected connector.

I don't think this is the reason since the A: Working Drive is after this punch.

But depending on what pins are needed this could be an issue.
 
 If I can put back another connector at this punch point, I may restore some needed connections.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 06:26:07 AM
NOPE, the cable is good even with the punchthru.
 
 I tested each line with an ohm meter from One-Far-End to the Other.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 22, 2017, 06:29:26 AM
don't think it should be an issue.   Ive use to run a few cables where I move the connectors to different positions and still had puncher marks in it.    The connector pins that go into the ribbon cable are V shaped, the pin more hugs the bare wire inside the ribbon cable instead of going thru the middle.  So I don't think electrical connectivity would have been broken.     Doesn't hurt to go thru all the pins with a multimeter.  

Picture of pins on IDC connector http://rarecomponents.com/store/1282

Edit - Whats the model of 486 motherboard and I/O card that your using..   best to look up info online.    

this seems cool 5.25 floppy to usb adapter -  http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/2503
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 06:39:42 AM
I AM ABOUT TO GIVE UP, unless I come up with something new.

If I can't create a 5.25" disk for the Amiga Bridgeboard PC 5.25" Disk then I can't possibly get the Amiga PC to pick up the Hard Drive.

Creating a restored Workbench Disk is a waste of time since the plain old Bridgeboard PC WORKS. The DJMount works but nothing to mount since PC doesn't pick up the Hard drive thru the WD Contoller Card.

The whole GOAL OF THIS THREAD was to get a Peek at that HARD DRIVE.

I might as well just remove the Controller Card, and the Hard Drive. Put both in my Spare Part shelf. Can't be sold as working since I have not proven that.

Maybe some day build up the Amiga for some reason. But I doubt it.
I can't see what purpose I have for the Amiga other than to see the old games I played. Those work and I can get/burn more onto ADF floppies if the need ever arises via Amiga Explorer.

If I want a faster Amiga, I'm sure there are Emulators, or Better Solutions that this A2000.

Might be time to clean it up and sell my Whole Amiga "Lot of Stuff" for some Fish Tank Gear.

Not sure what it's worth, but the Amiga Monitor itself might make the sale more valuable.

Thanks for everyone's help. It was frustrating and yet fun.
 
 The FUNNY PART of this EXPERIENCE is I've bought SSD drive for every computer in this Family to have them boot Windows in 2 seconds.
 Over last two days, I watch 3 computer boot 50 times.  Each time for Minutes.  That was very painful.  Many times I left to do other things :) :( :)

Nice to have met all of you, and greatly appreciated everyone's help.

Wally B.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 07:59:09 AM
HANG ON (Not giving up). One last IDEA.

I'm killing myself to get that 5.25" floppy working on the 486 so that I can boot my Bridgeboard PC on the 5.25" floppy drive in the bridgeboard.

My issue is a 5.25" disk, but does is have to be that.

I have all kind of cardf in that 486 Machine and 3.5" floppy drives galore.

Is there a Card I can plug into the Bridgeboard side Bus to get a 3.5" floppy working on the Amiga PC? If I can, then I can make a 3.5" DOS boot disk and do my last attempt to get the HARD Drive recognized by DOS.  (I'll list the card I have, but what kind of SLot Connector technology is on that PC side of the amiga?)

Is there a way? I notice some of the cards in the 486 go into long slots, but only use a portion of those slots. So maybe they will fit into the AMIGA and work.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 08:06:05 AM
I just thought about what I wrote above.

It's a Chicken before the Egg thing.

I can't make a 3.5" disk to boot on the Amiga PC Side, because I would need to boot off that 3.5" DOS disk to load the driver, to recognize the card, to boot off that floppy to recognize that other Controller to get access to the Hard Disk I want to see.

But maybe there is something along that line that you guys can think of.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: paul1981 on January 22, 2017, 12:38:36 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820357
I just thought about what I wrote above.

It's a Chicken before the Egg thing.

I can't make a 3.5" disk to boot on the Amiga PC Side, because I would need to boot off that 3.5" DOS disk to load the driver, to recognize the card, to boot off that floppy to recognize that other Controller to get access to the Hard Disk I want to see.

But maybe there is something along that line that you guys can think of.


It's all very painful when you don't have a hard disk in your Amiga. When they boot to Workbench in a few seconds it just makes any Amiga complete, it's a transformatiom. like an entirely new computer. Should you decide to keep the 2000, I'd certainly pickup a A2091 controller or one of those GVP ones with FastRAM too.

WinUAE can now emulate bridgeboards too. Would that help any? If you attach the controller card to your 486 with drive attached would that not enable you to read the drive? I'm not very experienced with DOS, but isn't there a driver on the card firmware or  I a few years ahead? If not, there has to be a driver out there somewhere.

Apologies if I'm saying things that have already been said. Did you get any further with making that Amiga disk to replace the damaged one? Have you considered imaging the disk for us and sending it to one of us so that they may reconstruct your disk?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 04:50:25 PM
Quote from: paul1981;820367
WinUAE can now emulate bridgeboards too. Would that help any? If you attach the controller card to your 486 with drive attached would that not enable you to read the drive? I'm not very experienced with DOS, but isn't there a driver on the card firmware or I a few years ahead? If not, there has to be a driver out there somewhere.
Paul1981, I'll comment on your other points later, but you sparked a interesting point.

I just got a reply from a Parts Seller that the WD Controller card doesn't have any Drivers (or at least they don't have them). So it must be recognized EITHER TRU DOS, or THRU BIO.

So as you suggest, if that CARD fit into the 486 Standalone Computer, along with the OLD Octagon Hard Drive. It might get picked up, and my mission accomplished. (In the past I did try the Hard Drive Alone with an IDE cable, but wasn't aware it wasn't an IDE Drive).

First I need to detail all the connections on the 486 to be able to put it back together. This is risky on the 486, since it may never work once put back together. Oh well, it's dying anyway, and no use to me.

Before I begin, I'll post a photo of Controller Card, and the Slots in the 486 to confirm this will work.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 22, 2017, 05:05:41 PM
Hang on a minute... that 5.25 inchh floppy you are booting Amiga from?

Why are you expecting it to work in PC too? I thought Amiga / PC floppies incompatible. Hack to change one into the other. That might be why does not work in 486 - is not a PC floppy drive. It's an Amiga floppy drive?

You cannot set an XT to have an HD in BIOS. FDISK will not see drive if driver not installed. Check links posted already. It's only 16K BIOS anyway.

I never knew BB shipped with GW Basic. License goes with HW, I think. :) If you got had 286BB and upgraded it to 486, you could have both Amiga and PC in same box. Less space. And there are drivers for controller, in DOS. You usually have to register somewhere to get them, because they are part of MS product, you see. A very ancient one. Not unrestricted free for DL, usually.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 05:58:10 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820394
Hang on a minute... that 5.25 inchh floppy you are booting Amiga from?

Why are you expecting it to work in PC too? I thought Amiga / PC floppies incompatible. Hack to change one into the other. That might be why does not work in 486 - is not a PC floppy drive. It's an Amiga floppy drive?

You cannot set an XT to have an HD in BIOS. FDISK will not see drive if driver not installed. Check links posted already. It's only 16K BIOS anyway.

I never knew BB shipped with GW Basic. License goes with HW, I think. :) If you got had 286BB and upgraded it to 486, you could have both Amiga and PC in same box. Less space. And there are drivers for controller, in DOS. You usually have to register somewhere to get them, because they are part of MS product, you see. A very ancient one. Not unrestricted free for DL, usually.

I'm lost with your comments above.

The 5.25" DISK in my Amiga is for the AMiga PC.
I dont' boot the Amiga from it. Amiga boots from 3.5" Workbench disk.
I put in 5.25" DOS disk into Amiga (Which is PC Bridgeboard) and the 8088 PC boots inside of an Amiga Window.

The 486 is just a separate machine to try an get drivers onto 5.25" disk to use in the Amiga PC.
 
 My recent idea is to reverse things.  And get the 486 Standalone PC, to recognize the WD Hard Drive Controller, and thus have access to that Hard Drive (Assumption is Hard drive has a DOS Partition, not an Amiga Partition)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 22, 2017, 06:19:52 PM
OK. Bridgeboard had own floppy connector, for floppy PC drive.

I thought you were booting Amiga from 5.25 connected to Amiga floppy connector. Which did not make sense if you tried same drive in PC - PC do not like floppy drives that Amiga connects with. In those days, Mac, PC, Amiga, Atari, all drives were incompatible at floppy 5.25 inch. Also 3.5 inch, I think. Everything OS could read a disk in PC format, with a little tweaking. But you could not just swap drives, and some formats were alien (Amigas could not read Mac floppies without a real Mac floppy drive without big development, do not know if ever reliable). PCs used DOS, DR DOS, others were foreign.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 06:21:08 PM
Just to be clear.
 
 That 5.25" DOS Flooppy DISK was actually made on the 486 a couple of year ago.  I made two.
 
 I need that DOS boot disk to boot the Amiga Bridgeboard PC to confirm Bridgeboard 8088 PC works.
 
 A) All I wanted to do this time is add some drivers to that 5.25" disk to boot the Amiga PC possibly with a driver to wake up the WD Hard Drive Controller.
 
 B) Another plan was to make at 5.25" version of 3.5" Western Digital Floppy and run that on Amiga PC.
 
 Plan (A) & (B) Failed, when the 846 5.25" Disk didn't work this time (B: Drive)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 06:21:51 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820406
OK. Bridgeboard had own floppy connector, for floppy PC drive.

I thought you were booting Amiga from 5.25 connected to Amiga floppy connector. Which did not make sense if you tried same drive in PC - PC do not like floppy drives that Amiga connects with.

Yes, bridgeboard is directly connected to 5.25" Floppy drive that is how that PC boots.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 06:50:21 PM
THIS MIGHT BE A CLUE (on How my setup Ran on Amiga PC Side)

Here is something, I never paid attention to.

There is a 2nd card on the Amiga PC Side.
It might shed light on how my PC setup ran.
It's an RS232 Parrallel Port Card, which I probably had hooked up to a dot matrix printer for my University work. I remember I never had a PC at the time, and my Amiga PC was my work center for MATLAB.

Here is where the cards are.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/496/32343224531_9cd9c5ecf2_b.jpg)

Here is the RS232 card. (I pulled it out)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/414/31653085163_df0183f41e_b.jpg)
 
 Back side of card for Numbers
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/431/31621581044_cf8f821c4a_o.jpg)
 
 

If I understand what it takes to make that RS232 card work, it might help to understand how to get the WD Hard Drive Card to work.

Would an RS232 card like that need drivers in DOS side of Amiga PC?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE.

Is it possible that things worked like this.

1) The HDD controller and the RS2323 didn't need drivers.
2) There is no need for a 5.25" DOS Floppy to boot the AMIGA PC
3) The PC Side simply enabled the WD HARD Driver Controller
- That Activated the Octagan Hard driver in Auto Boot
- The PC booted off the Hard Drive in DOS Partition.

Maybe I need to put back the original Kickstart 1.2 ROM and try again. (With a rebuilt Workbench Disk from the partially readable one I have)

What I describe above is how the 486 PC boots.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 22, 2017, 07:25:41 PM
XTs need drivers for everything except basic graphics, keyboard, floppy, clock. Some will mount cards automatically from ROM on the card if the BIOS supports it, but rare with XT and 8 bit ISA gear. Wasn't a "standard" way to do that, IIRC. Stone Age, really.

The A2000 is not that dissimilar, but at least it has a 16 bit autoconfig bus. The Amiga was always nice graphics with a slow processor nailed to it, really. You had to fit more processor power, but at least you could. CPU cards came much later on the PC. ATs were nice, but they were never Amigas.

Anyway, you got all the resources out there, just consult them and think about cracking the data out, whatever it was. I'm guessing it's student stuff, which can turn out surprisingly useful later in life. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820416
XTs need drivers for everything except basic graphics, keyboard, floppy, clock. Some will mount cards automatically from ROM on the card if the BIOS supports it, but rare with XT and 8 bit ISA gear. Wasn't a "standard" way to do that, IIRC. Stone Age, really.

The A2000 is not that dissimilar, but at least it has a 16 bit autoconfig bus. The Amiga was always nice graphics with a slow processor nailed to it, really. You had to fit more processor power, but at least you could. CPU cards came much later on the PC. ATs were nice, but they were never Amigas.

Anyway, you got all the resources out there, just consult them and think about cracking the data out, whatever it was. I'm guessing it's student stuff, which can turn out surprisingly useful later in life. :)

 Thanks for that clarification.  No point wasting time on what won't work.  DRIVERS NEEDED (don't have them).
 
 You mention that some cards will automount from ROM.  What caught my attention on the documentation I found, is the WD HD card does have an Embedded format tool that can be accessed from DOS in some kind of Debug command.  But who knows what that means.
 
 I will take one last look at that workbench disk just in case there is a clue, but can't see anything special being there.  It's boot the Bridgeboard PC fine. What else could it do without access to the HD on the PC side.
 
 Anyway to save me time on Limitation of Amiga Tools. If I remember correctly there is a way to access a 3.5" Amiga Floppy from a Windows PC. (Correct?).
 
 Amiga Explorer is one way. Correct?
 
 Another tool I noticed on my Explorer computer is ADFread.
 
 I need to read back on this thread since there was mention of other tools for scanning and stripping/recovering corrupt disks.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 22, 2017, 08:42:05 PM
One other option (846 PC).
 
 I just got permission from my friend who lent me that 486 PC.  He doesn't need it and if I break it he doesn't care.
 
 So I'll rip it apart and see if the WD Controller card will fit in there with the Hard drive.  Maybe (doubt it) BIOS will pick it up.
 
 Can't hurt to try.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 12:54:10 AM
if you havent done so, please read the manual.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

A2088-A2286.pdf


I get the feeling there might be alot of stabbing in the dark within this thread.

How about visit the local Commodore user meetup ? http://www.tpug.ca/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 01:01:55 AM
dupe post
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 01:28:45 AM
Quote from: darkage;820451
if you havent done so, please read the manual.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

A2088-A2286.pdf


I get the feeling there might be alot of stabbing in the dark within this thread.

How about visit the local Commodore user meetup ? http://www.tpug.ca/

WOW!! TPUG (Toronto Pet User Group) is still around. (They meet like 15 minutes from my house. Incredible)
I used to attend those club meetings  decades ago for the Commodore 64 Knowledge. Even met Jim Butterfield.
Very interesting. I got to make the next meeting and bring the Amiga in the back of the VAN.

Yes this is stabbing in the dark. It's all I have with my limited knowledge.

I did look up the bridgeboard before your post and was working on this.

BRIDGEBOARD SPEC SAYS
-------------------------------------------------------------
Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 floppy disk drive from the following:
1. One PC-only external drive (3.5" or 5.25") 2. Two PC-only internal drives of same computer type (PC or Amiga),
3.5" 1.44MB PC drive, 3.5" 720KB/880KB PC or Amiga drive, 3.5" 880KB/1.76MB dual-speed Amiga drive, 5.25" high density, or 5.25" low density. 3.
One shared 3.5" Amiga drive Card Type: Uses both Amiga bus and PC ISA bus. Occupies one of the two combined positions
.-------------------------------------------------T

Thus the Bridgeboard will support TWO Floppy drives.
I hooked up a 3.5" to the Bridgeboard using the cable from the 486.
3.5" Drive spins up on boot attempt, but says Bad DiskFormatting a 1.44MB DISK version of DOS to try. Could be the 3.5" drive isn't compatible.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 02:45:58 AM
or maybe the disk your trying to access has deteriorated alot.  

Theres a regular Monthly Amiga user group meeting just around the corner from my house as well.   I was like wow they will do that these days.  I have to make an effort to attend one day.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 03:54:38 AM
Quote from: darkage;820463
or maybe the disk your trying to access has deteriorated alot.
Your not kidding.  I had to try 6 floppies to format a 3.5" successfully.  They are all degrading.
 
 and now I face something worse.  The only 5.25" DOS floppy I have won't boot.  Amiga PC tries, but it won't boot, so it's also deteriorated from using it these last few days.  
 
 I'm really stuck since I didn't have any luck putting in the 3.5" into the Amiga PC (tried all kind of combos.  I figure it's formatting capacity, or just different generation Floppy controllers-Floppy Drives).

 I'm deteriorating into a Dead end, if I don't come up with a fresh idea or workaround.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 04:38:04 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820476

Your not kidding. I had to try 6 floppies to format a 3.5" successfully. They are all degrading.
 
 I'm really stuck since I didn't have any luck putting in the 3.5" into the Amiga PC (tried all kind of combos.  I figure it's formatting capacity, or just different generation Floppy controllers-Floppy Drives).

 I'm deteriorating into a Dead end, if I don't come up with a fresh idea or workaround.

I would just purchase a Gotek floppy emulator.   That way you can just deal with floppy images instead of physical oxidised media.

For PC  -  http://bit.ly/2j3iOfl  

For Amiga - the above floppy emulator will need its firmware updated to work on an amiga.   You can purchase one online already modified for Amiga use.  http://bit.ly/2jRcWKu

This would save alot of heart ache.   imagine just keeping all your floppy images (.adf image) on fat32 formatted usb plugged into the gotek floppy emulator and then selecting from the device which image to use in DF0:    simple.


even if you use physical floppies, you still have to create disks from archives or images which can be a hassle at times.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 04:42:11 AM
Quote from: darkage;820478
I would just purchase a Gotek floppy emulator. That way you can just deal with floppy images instead of physical oxidised media.

For PC - http://bit.ly/2j3iOfl

For Amiga - the above floppy emulator will need its firmware updated to work on an amiga. You can purchase one online already modified for Amiga use. http://bit.ly/2jRcWKu

This would save alot of heart ache. imagine just keeping all your floppy images on usb plugged into the gotek floppy emulator and then selecting from the device which image to use in DF0: simple.

Thanks.  If I do go forward with upgrading (I actually might) it won't be with all this flaky unreliable stuff.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 04:48:10 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820479
Thanks.  If I do go forward with upgrading (I actually might) it won't be with all this flaky unreliable stuff.


demo video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUxsmQxJZ3c
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 05:06:45 AM
THREAD Coming to an END ( WHY ALL THIS FUSS over a STONE AGE Hard Drive)

So in case anyone is wondering why all this struggle and not just upgrade as suggested.

This thread and attempt was purely to get access to that Original Hard Drive that I used in University on the PC Side.

I spent my money on an Amiga. Had no interest in XT PC's, but needed one for Electronics School.
And on that Drive, I'm 95% sure is a Electronic Copy of my Thesis Paper, which I lost the Hard Copy years ago in a flood.

Would be cool to read it again, and show my Son who is actually starting a High School Courses in a few weeks in Computer Programming and Robotics Automation. For me to.

So not sure if it's appropriate or Norm to share, but what the heck not, this Thesis Project was probably something folks Use even Today for the Kickstart Burns.

The THESIS was a UNIVERSAL EPPROM & Single Chip MicroProcessor Programmer. A real working model at the end of Graduation (1991).

I have some paper photo's that my Mom recently passed on to me.

Here is the Programmer.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/568/32473820645_7e73e82522_z.jpg)

It was Truly Universal since it could handle any Chip that fit into that Socket.

Inside shows the Interface Board, with Programmable Voltage Power Supply to handle any Chip Voltage required.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/602/32473821555_e4113c770b_z.jpg)

To handle various Chip Pinouts, there was a Custom Cartridge Module that plugged into the back to re-route the addressing, data buses and power.

I have the Module sitting on my shelf in my office (the rest was lost)
I actually got this module back last March 2016, when my Dad Passed away (I was going thru his stuff). He kept it for years.
That moment when I found the module it shook me up, and got me on this mission to get the Thesis.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/372/31662157203_4db5bd3575.jpg)

More modules could be made for the Base Unit,
but the inside shows how This One Module handled the 9 different chips it supported (via toggle switches and push buttons)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/616/32473821245_685b9c4658.jpg)

I wrote the User Interface for the PC, to upload the Compiled C Code, or data to be burn via Serial cable to the base unit.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/356/31662156033_4b2e4bda77.jpg)

It could read chips, make copies, and burn new one. If I had it today, I copy make copies of Kickstart ROMS, or make new ones from images.

It was a fun Thesis (learned a lot) , got 95% (lost 5% for Spelling Errors. Professor was tough)


SO A COPY of that Thesis Paper is what this Thread was about.

Even if I don't get that Paper ever, my mom got me these photo's just last Christmas,
and this was the best one, the DESIGN WHITE BOARD of the Programmer from my Bedroom wall.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/256/31662155653_24146acf85_z.jpg)

Thanks for everyone's help. You guys have been great. I would have given up sooner if it wasn't for you all.

I'll never give up, but I'll take it a bit slower.

Wife and kids want to kill me for blowing away a whole weekend on this.

Wally
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 23, 2017, 06:24:47 AM
nice project looks very clean and professional!   You can detect the hard drives within the bios on the 486 right ?    It might make more sense if you can try and find a way to create hard drive image file from the MFM drives via the 486.  Not sure if you have to convert he MFM drive images at all.  You will need to read up.


  Then you might be able to load the hdd image with Winuae emulator configured with a bridgeboard..    

video example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC8UUgXPnsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnsZBX_AYKA


even if you dont take a image of the MFM drive, you could still fire up WinUAE configured with a bridgeboard to become more familiar with the setup and how the system should react minus any bad hardware disadvantages.   Might be a useful training aid on a fast modern day computer.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 07:40:39 AM
Quote from: darkage;820486
You can detect the hard drives within the bios on the 486 right ? .
If you are referring to the Hard Drive in the Amiga with my school work the answer is no. If I could I'd be very close achieving my goal (Even if I were to get access to Ascii text data within since that's all I really want (read what I wrote in that Thesis Paper).

Going beyond and getting a image of either the DOS or (if an amiga partition exsists) would be the next step. If somehow possible.

However, I haven't torn apart that 486 to put in the WD controller (if it even fits into a compatible slot).

That I will try, and is my next step, along with some other hacks or as stated (Stabs in the Dark, which is true).

I am going to email that TPUG user group and see what kind of folks are member and what knowledge or part they have to assist me.
 
 THANKS for that YouTube video of the Bridgeboard emulator.  That sparks some ideas, but not even close to understanding what it would take.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 07:52:31 AM
I see a Donate Link on this web site, and since I've gotten so much in so little time I feel compelled to donate a small token of appreciation to assist the upkeep and a thanks for all the information compiled here.
I clicked on it but seem like no donations are active.
Are the folks running this site collecting donations? I'd  hate to send money into a black hole.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 23, 2017, 08:27:30 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820489
I see a Donate Link on this web site, and since I've gotten so much in so little time I feel compelled to donate a small token of appreciation to assist the upkeep and a thanks for all the information compiled here.
I clicked on it but seem like no donations are active.
Are the folks running this site collecting donations? I'd  hate to send money into a black hole.

I clicked on the link to see what would happen and got taken to a Paypal payment page, plus an auto-response in my inbox.  So it appears to still be working if you have a Paypal account?

...which reminds me, I should probably toss a couple bucks for hosting, considering how much time I spend on here.  :laughing:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 23, 2017, 03:28:55 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820491
I clicked on the link to see what would happen and got taken to a Paypal payment page, plus an auto-response in my inbox. So it appears to still be working if you have a Paypal account?

...which reminds me, I should probably toss a couple bucks for hosting, considering how much time I spend on here. :laughing:
I just made a  token donation (went thru Paypal to A-EON Technology Ltd)
I checked the monthly Goal on the Forum, it didn't update (but could take time).  Will check later.
 
 I'm not the greatest donator to charities, but I do get moved by world disasters.  Also when it come to Freeware software that I really find useful I do donate as well.  The way I see things as far as Forums like this and others. (What if the forum wasn't around, how much would one pay for excellent information pointers (past and present), especially past on Legacy technology.  Also hats off to folks like yourself who reach out and help like you did help me of free will.  That  wouldn't be possible without a place like here).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 04:55:19 AM
Thinking about that WD1002a-27x IBM RLL Hard Drive controller in my spare time.

I picked this information up in two places.  (Specifically one Persons Build book for XT machines)

It appears the Western Digital Controller was one of the better ones (RLL Drive) at the time and it has a built in BIOS, so maybe it doesn't need a driver, since nowhere anywhere there is mention of one. Retro stuff is overprice by this controller sells for over $150-250 US today.

Plus the Retro Reseller who has drivers for everything they sell, stated he has no driver for this card.

What documentation says is you can access to on Board BIOS using the DOS "Debug" command, and entering this command "G=C800:5.", which starts a text based interactive menu. (to Format, Partition, etc).


QUOTE: Once in the BIOS program, it will ask you a few questions about your drive. If you do not know the information on your drive, then you are going to have to get it from the drive manufacturer. The next step is to run FDISK. In this program you select the type and number of partitions that you would like to make.

At least if I got this working it would prove I have a good WD Controller and it's alive.

Then the next step is

QUOTE: The next step is to run FDISK. In this program you select the type and number of partitions that you would like to make. After you make the partitions, you will need to format them again using FORMAT. Finally to make your partition bootable you need to run the program SYS.

If FDISK then picked up the drive that would be progress.

I wouldn't re-partition or format, but maybe I could see what partition are there, and verify that I have a working drive.

OF COURSE this all means I need to get my 486 B drive working to make a DOS disk. arrrgh!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 25, 2017, 05:05:46 AM
Looks like you can get the WD1002A-27X


$19 from a computer recycler http://www.4drives.com/4drives/WD1002A-27X.htm

$40 to $79.95 from ebay  http://ebay.to/2jvp7sU
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 25, 2017, 06:22:09 AM
Well, I got some good news - apparently the drives are pretty good for keeping their contents, especially if they have been switched off and stored well. Which this one has been. So your work probably is intact on it.

Also, WD do their own DOS rescue package, called Lifeguard Tools. I don't recommend you just plunge straight in and use this, but it almost certainly contains a driver somewhere, if one is needed. Plus, it's kind of "the official rescue package" for WD products, so seems a good place to start, in terms of download everything and have a look offline. Quicker than trawling online for odds and ends. You can get the same straight from WD, if you know where to look.

http://www.4shared.com/zip/jibFxotI/Western_Digital_Data_Lifeguard.html?cau2=403tNull&ua=WINDOWS

http://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?DL

If you used the drive for PC files, chances are pretty much a certainty that the partitions are DOS, and you ARE going the right way about it. :) You might have to do a boot disk in 3.5 inch size, if you can't get your current 486 boot system happy with reading from that ISA WD controller.

If they are not, then you are going to have to learn Commodore Bridgeboard again anyway, and read them off with an Amiga. But I doubt that, it would not make sense to use a PC and store data on an Amiga. Unless you wanted to keep it REALLY safe. ;)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 25, 2017, 06:55:50 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820692


What documentation says is you can access to on Board BIOS using the DOS "Debug" command, and entering this command "G=C800:5.", which starts a text based interactive menu. (to Format, Partition, etc).



Careful with that debug command.   It looks like it only executes a low level format app from memory.   Manual says the following

'This controller has a built-in low-level format program. To enter the program run the DEBUG utility supplied with DOS and at the prompt enter: G=C800:5.'  

Also dont set the jumpers on the MFM/RLL controller card, looks like that triggers low level format.


Screenshot of debug app running showing just low level format option, may be a different controller  -  http://angelohouben.nl/restoring-an-ibm-5150-computer/  


Not sure if you have checked all terminator resistors are inplace and correct jumper settings are setup.   If the terminator resisters are sockets you may want to remove and reseat them.   I didn't realise the 5.25 floppy has these until this thread pop up, not sure if these are on the MFM drives at all.    

heres some handy old school applications,  you might want to see if you can load checkit diagnostics perhaps

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/software/software.htm

On the 486 you will probably want to disable IDE if onboard and/or remove the ide controller card, if you are adding the MFM controller to that.

Edit - You may want to hit up on the vintage computer forums, they might be handy for MFM stuff http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum.php
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 07:36:53 AM
Man, both of you are really good finding this material. I tried and never got this close.

Plus the fact that you are around is so nice, I thought you gave up on me. Since things seem kind of "stabbing in the dark" on my side.

That Lifeguard WD tool looks exactly what I need (not going to use it yet) but that Version is the one I was looking for, since I do have similar Floppy version. I ran that Lifeguard tool and it booted MS Dos Right off of it and went into the menu. This version you found looks more ideal (older, possibly for the time).

And that article you found on the DEBUG is great. Looks Promising on what I was thinking (A disk that will recognize without a driver).

But I have two hurdles to face before I even try the two above.

1) IS the 486 and that B: drive that I couldn't get working to make a fresh 5.25" DOS boot disk and add tools to it (like DEBUG).

2) My biggest worry. I pulled out a couple of old 3.25" floppy drives from some spare computers, and I tried with hope to hook one up the the Bridgeboard (To start working with 3.5" floppy rather than the 5.25")

I did 2) because I read in the bridgeboard spec that you can have both a 5.25" and a 3.25". But when I read again, I noticed my 8088 Bridgeboard spec only supports ONE 5.25". Not a 3.5 at all.

So I went back to the 5.25", but from that point onward the 5.25" on the Amiga Bridgeboard DOS connection isn't booting Like it was a few days ago.

The drive activates. LED comes on. The reports bad disk.
This never happened before. It was working fine (Screen Shots prove it). DOS booted on the Bridgeboard with a DOS 6.2 floppy in it.

At first I thought the floppy degraded. But I have two (not sure if 2nd was ever good), but two labeled 5.25" floppies now don't work.

My worry is I damaged the Bridgeboard, or the 5.25" in the Amiga, when I tried to hooked up a 3.5" floppy. (the data bus lines), not the control lines (since control works by LED turning on).

IS THAT POSSIBLE? Are the data lines sensitive to a degree that if the 3.5" connection shorted a data line that it would get damaged. I kind of think this old technology wasn't that sensitive. After all many times in past I reversed the ribbon cable since it can hook on either way.

If I damaged the bridgeboard floppy controller, or the Amiga DOS drive, my mission is over (From an amiga Perspective), and the only hope would be to move efforts into the 486.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 07:44:45 AM
Quote from: darkage;820702

Not sure if you have checked all terminator resistors are inplace and correct jumper settings are setup. If the terminator resisters are sockets you may want to remove and reseat them. I didn't realise the 5.25 floppy has these until this thread pop up, not sure if these are on the MFM drives at all.


Hmmm.  Good idea.  Not that they could be in wrong positions, since Never changed, but I like the fact of (remove and reseat).  Might want to do where there is a terminator or jumper to clean up connections.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 07:49:15 AM
Quote from: darkage;820693
Looks like you can get the WD1002A-27X


$19 from a computer recycler http://www.4drives.com/4drives/WD1002A-27X.htm

Good spec sheet in that suppliers web site.
 
 Again hope of No Driver needed from DOS with this
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 be seen by DOS as 4 hds.
 940          W2           closed
             cyls. 17 SPT. Supports only up
             to 16 heads and 663 cylinders
             (physical).
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Could be worthy of a try in the 486.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 08:04:26 AM
So I have a clue if the AMIGA Bridgeboard 5.25" DOS Floppies are corrupt of if it's something else (like I damaged something).

I have a box of 10 5.25" floppies. I bought a new box a couple of years ago when my HDD hunt started.

8 of them were never used.

So if I put a Formatted BOOT DISK in, or a unformatted disk, I get a quick "BOOT DISK FAILURE MESSAGE".

In my opinion if the Formatted Boot disk was slightly corrupted, the BridgePC would at least spend a second more trying to read it. But it doesn't.

Time to move things into the 486 (Empty the cards) and see if something can be built for the WD controller and HDD (but I must have 3.25" DOS BOOT floppies to work with as a starting point).   Maybe hook in just the C: (HDD)

Will prepare similar DOS floppies first, since in DOS you can only format a Floppy with the /S (system install) from a working DOS System (same version). I won't have that once I rip apart the 486.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 25, 2017, 10:14:01 AM
Sounds like the 5.25 inch drive died. If none of the 10 floppies will format or read.

They can be brought back to life, if the mechanics are all ok and it's just dirt on the read heads.

It is not easy to damage a 3.5 inch drive plugging in the wrong way, but I am not so familiar with breaking or fixing 5.25 inch. It is probably easier to take the heads off for cleaning, if you can't get another one.

But, why not just boot from a floppy on the 486, from 3.5 inch PC drive, and just try it that way? Crash bang wallop, read the data off onto another hard disk, on a different controller. Job done.

A floppy disk is a floppy disk, after all. From the computer's point of view. It does not care where it boots from.

I would not boot with the whole diags tool, that sounds a bit risky unless you know what you are doing and are confident you will not damage the data. Practice a bit with it first, with the hard drive disconnected.

If you get confident with doing this sort of stuff, with IDE and SCSI too, you can earn some very nice money. Data is VALUABLE. Only now are you realizing how value it can be. Top dollar at this game is 10% (finders fee) on the value of recovered data. You got to be VERY good to charge that though. No recovery of at least 80% of data, no fee, is usual. Clients want the whole thing or they are not happy.

I usually just charge for materials, but rarely offer the service. It can be a little dangerous. You don't know WHAT is in the archive to begin with, if it isn't yours. Could be anything. Usually it's totally harmless.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 25, 2017, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820709

So if I put a Formatted BOOT DISK in, or a unformatted disk, I get a quick "BOOT DISK FAILURE MESSAGE".

even on bad floppies I would expect to hear floppy main motor spinning and the head motor engaging  while read light shows and the drive attempt to seek.  Normally a very quick return of a error message like that without sound, indicates hardware not setup correctly or hardware failure.      

Heres the German manual that you can translate to english within the browser if translate extension is used  -   http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html  

BridgeBoard guide from Aminet - http://aminet.net/search?query=bridgeboard+guide   Think its the same thing.  

Can you populate the following missing information -    

5.25 Floppy Brand and model number  = ?
486 motherboard brand and model number.  = ?

We have established the following models -

ISA Western Digital WD1002A-27X MFM / RLL controller
Octagon ST-506 Hard Drive

NOTE - IF you need to transfer a file like a floppy image over to the Amiga you can use a NULL modem cable and theres a little script for AmigaBasic or ARexx that you can type up just to receive the first file.  

http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/adfsenderterminal/methods.html  

just incase you want to recreate any of the Janus or PC setup disks.


Not sure if you have tried to access the bridgeboards bios -

http://home.arcor.de/kickstart/TKA/Tutorials/bridgeboard/pcjanus.html

'In the BIOS is accessed by pressing the key combination Ctrl-Alt-Esc active PC Monocrome display .'


I will probably have to buy myself a bridgeboard some day now :P
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 07:07:18 PM
Quote from: darkage;820736
even on bad floppies I would expect to hear floppy main motor spinning and the head motor engaging while read light shows and the drive attempt to seek. Normally a very quick return of a error message like that without sound, indicates hardware not setup correctly or hardware failure.
Not sure if you have tried to access the bridgeboards bios -

http://home.arcor.de/kickstart/TKA/Tutorials/bridgeboard/pcjanus.html

'In the BIOS is accessed by pressing the key combination Ctrl-Alt-Esc active PC Monocrome display .'


I will probably have to buy myself a bridgeboard some day now :P

First, 5.25" Bridgeboard the drive does spin.  Light turns on and then the error message.
 
 *** WOW SUPER COOL, I didn't know you could get into bridgeboard BIOS **  That will be very interesting and tell me so much more ***
 
 And now something DISTURBING!!!
 
 I was so close, but didn't know this.
 
 The Bridgeboard has a Floppy drive Port in the back of A2088 Bridgboard only!!!!!!! (mine is a A2088).
 You can hook up a 5.25" or 3.5" Amiga Floppy to it.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/507/32522559335_f0b1ed9502_b.jpg)
 
 
 I thought it was a parallel printer port.  Even decades ago I didn't know this.
 
 **** I HAVE A 3.5" A1000 External Floppy DRIVE **
 **** I could have done everything I wanted in that Bridgeboard DOS.
 
 ** No need for 5.25" at all except to boot **
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/480/32143510620_1c02a3bd5d_b.jpg)
 
 
 Next steps.
 
 1) Get into Bridgeboard BIOS and see what I can do.
 2) Maybe I can boot of the 3.5" floppy.
 3) Maybe ALSO BIOS can pick up that WD controller, or Hard disk.
 
 This will be interesting.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 07:31:38 PM
I'm getting excited!!!
 
 Haven't figured out how to get in BIOS (Ctrl-Alt-Esc) not working.
 
 But I disconnected the A: 5.25" disk, and have the 3.5" disk connected to bridgeboard.  After a first no A: drive failure, Bridgeboard PC is now trying to boot off the 3.5" (Drive light is on briefly), then "Boot Disk Failure".
 
 I'm sure the boot disk I am using is formatted higher capacity that the drive can handle.  Need to make a 5.25" DOS BOOT DISK at 1.44 MB or 1.2.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 10:24:24 PM
Found out that the ALT-ALT-CTRL-DEL isn't really a HW BIOS, it's access to SETUP and is only Available after you get a DOS PROMPT.

(So no hope there till a boot happens)

No Luck with a MSDOS Boot. (I know it worked before on the 5.25").

All activity is proper.

1) Janus Libraries Loaded
2) Tries to boot from A: Drive (Head moves, drive spins, Led on During Read Attempt)
3) Tried to boot from B: Drive (appears that way, same behavior as A: )
-------> Boot Disk Failure for both

Could Format Type(size) be wrong.
Manual says the 3.5 A1010 Floppy should be 360K, or 720K

Tried "Format a: /F:720 /S " or " /1" for single sided (Get Paramater Not Compatible )  Can you format a 3.5" floppy 720K?

** WISH I NEVER TOUCHED THE WORKING 5.25" Booting Floppy Drive **

Failures look like below for Proof.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/649/32402854141_fbeda9849e_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 11:09:24 PM
** NEXT STEP **  (MAKE A WORKING DOS BOOT DISK)

1) Leave Amiga Alone (Setup should work if nothing is BAD)
- Could be bad 5.25" disk
- Possible (you can't boot from a B: Drive)
- Wrong Format Sizes

2) Get 5.25" (386) Floppy drive working in Another spare Computer (If I have the parts)

3) Try formatting Floppies in other Formats sizes

4) Prove I have bootable Floppies (and put back into Amiga for tests)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 25, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
From bridgeboard guide -

    Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 standard PC floppy disk drives:
        5.25" Drives: 360KB (Comes standard with 360KB drive)
        3.5" Drives: 720KB (Uses Amiga external floppies drives on the external floppy connector)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 25, 2017, 11:39:48 PM
Quote from: darkage;820789
From bridgeboard guide -

Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 standard PC floppy disk drives:
5.25" Drives: 360KB (Comes standard with 360KB drive)
3.5" Drives: 720KB (Uses Amiga external floppies drives on the external floppy connector)

What is weird about the above is I formatted the 5.25" floppy 720K and it worked. Now doesn't. Can't make another (no B: drive)

I can't format a 3.5" Floppy 720KB (DOS won't let me).  Same Floppy will  Format 1.2 M .
 
 Does the disk have to be a certain kind (hole on case? No Hole?). How does DOS know or decide if format is not possible? (DISK DRIVE makes decision)?
 
 I figure that any higher density disk can be formatted LOWER Capacity (No the other way around)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 25, 2017, 11:46:08 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820791
I figure that any higher density disk can be formatted LOWER Capacity (No the other way around)

AFAIR there's a risk of data loss by formatting disks incorrectly, but I don't think it matters much in this case.  ;)

Re: how does the drive detect:

(http://minuszerodegrees.net/images3/3.5_dd_hd_difference.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 12:33:36 AM
Try

format   a:/4

http://www.easydos.com/format.html

Have to use a fresh disk. Every time you write data to an HD disk formatted to DD, it degrades.

You try can try resussitating dead High Density floppies by putting them on top of a loud speaker playing music for a few hours, or custom designed hardware to "randomize" the magnetic domains on a disk. Then try formatting them fresh again.

(This one is really deep, don't go there unless you like headaches).

http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/guzis.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 02:39:13 AM
Pat (is that what I should call you, or do you want the_cat added, you bring up a good point.

I think I "Degaussed", my 5.25" DOS Boot floppies. Place is getting cluttered and I put the floppies on top of all kinds of places. On Top of the Amiga Monitor, Near the Amiga Power Supply Transformer. They may be extra sensitive being OLD.

I'll know once I have a 2nd 5.25" floppy drive. Hoping tonight.

The setup might be fine.

The pain of legacy. Can't just use another computer (have to build one), Can't just go to variety store a pick up a box of 5.25" DOS Formatted Floppies.
 
 I guess there is no SD Floppy Emulator I could plug into the Bridgeboard?  Can't be spending money for some XT Controller Card (at this point at least)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 03:20:52 AM
POSSIBLE SOLUTION to Bridgeboard Internal 5.25" disk A: Drive not working.
 
 Stumbled upon this AN (MOD) for Bridgeboard to allow the Externally Connected Floppy Drive to be recognized as Drive A:  not B:
 
 http://www.amiga-stuff.com/hardware/a2088.html
 
 I doubt it, but if I blew that internal Floppy Connector, this might be an option.  Small gotcha is this if for a 5.25" inch disk.
 
 ** MOD is drastic.  Cutting Bridgeboard Circuit Board traces, and running jumpers **
 
 For now, keeping this in my POCKET.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 03:22:41 AM
You could plug in a Gotek drive to a floppy port, but that's just complicating things. Amiga and PC flavours. The snag is, the data is stored as a floppy image, so you have to set them up in advance. So it just makes things 10 times harder.

If you can boot the 486 from a floppy with the controller on it, with an autoconfig file that incudes it the drive should be recognised, IF it was formatted with a PC filesystem (DOS). Any floppy. 5.25 drives sometimes have jumper to switch between DD and HD, which is a great help sometimes.

And yes, this happens a lot when trying to get data from old systems that won't boot up for some reason. First time it's a maze. ESPECIALLY with XT systems. They weren't designed for Hard disks in the first place.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 06:33:42 AM
You ain't kidding this is a Maze, the exit is still FAR. This isn't Stabbing in the Dark, this is a DARK MAZE.



*** I GOT THE 386 5.25" Floppy Drive working in the Amiga Explorer WinXP PC **

But the result may not be good for needs.

This at least proves the 5.25 is good, and should have work in the 386 (even same cable).

But depending what I assign the 5.25 in DOS, it either picks up, or does not.

When I assigned it as a 5.25 1.2M, it picked up and I was able to format a Floppy. But it couldn't read the DOS Boot Floppy for the Amiga PC 5.25

When I changed BIOS to 3.25 760K, it gives a "Drive Not Ready Error" for that Same Floppy I just formatted in that 5.25 Drive.

So this will be tricky.

- Will play around with various combinations:
- Might consider bring the Amiga 5.25 Floppy over to Explorer PC
- Or could I possible bring this 5.25 Floppy over to Amiga (probably not since Bridgeboard doesn't support 1.2M)

-> This just proves the 386 Floppy DRIVE is good.
-> This does not prove the 5.25 Floppy BOOTDisk is corrupted (degaussed), or GOOD (if good then something is wrong on Amiga PC bridgeboard)

Photo is to document this point of trial.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/374/32377825182_186b951922_b.jpg)

NEXT STEPS:

1) Try a few BIOS Setting in Exporer PC (See if I can get a common format that will work in BOTH [ Explorer 5.25" ] and also in [ Bridgeboard 5.25"] )
 *** THAT WOULD BE A BINGO, since I could boot the Amiga PC again !! **
 *** As I was typing Post, I tried another BIO setting.  Doesn't change anything [[[ Therefore must try DOS format options /F: for other Formats **
 *** Maybe the BIOS and Hardware is kind of the MAX capacity, and DOS might be able to go lower *

2) Must get a 3.5" disk working as A: Drive on this Explorer PC to be able to boot a DOS disk, to format a 5.25 DOS boot disk on B:
(Which kind of needed to do #1 above )

3) Other crazy choices (Like move the Amiga Hard Drive and WD Controller into the 386 PC) with some kind of setup. Who knows...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 08:10:51 AM
** WOO HOO !! ** (Two Drives a: 3.25" & b: 5.25" ) Working.

After many tries, and all kind of Bios Setting, I got something that works to start playing with HOPE (Hope I can make a Low capacity Disk Amiga PC can read)

Thanks to whoever mentioned the TWIST in the Ribbon cable. First cable was straight and both drives would conflict.

Then it came to figuring out the Right BIOS setting for 5.25"

I'm still not in the Clear, since I need to get a Format the Amiga PC 5.25" can read.

So next step is playing with FORMAT Commands.
Windows XP doesn't have as low level on first Glance.

Will be possible now to create a DOS 6.2, or 3.2 DOS Boot Disk with a Legacy Format Command.

This makes the 386 Obsolete at this point. Maybe later if I persue WD controller since it has the right motherboard Slots.

** One note, in above POST PHOTO and Comments.
That was not a 1.2M Format. I think it took a BIOS change for Japanese Mode 3 Drive to make it format that way by DEFAULT Format Command **

* Documenting my Setup as below so I don't forget **
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/645/31687803544_c6a4f3031f_c.jpg)

NOW the Next Step is hopefully (Formatting a 5.25 Floppy the Amiga will recognize).

If that works, I can copy over whatever is needed, to 5.25 Disks for Amiga PC.

And I may get to see that BRIDGEBOARD Bios Type Menu. And Possibly the WD Bios Tool too.

Format: Possibly via DOS, or some utility I can find.

This PC has internet and a Hard Drive so my Abilities are plentiful.

Onward.......
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 08:30:15 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820830
So next step is playing with FORMAT Commands.
Windows XP doesn't have as low level on first Glance.

Will be possible now to create a DOS 6.2, or 3.2 DOS Boot Disk with a Legacy Format Command.
Yes. You pretty much HAVE to use DOS to rescue an XT system. Windows 95 onwards is not recommended for such a task. It gradually erases true DOS usage as a user choice for doing system tasks. 6 is usually OK, rarely do you have to use an earlier version (usually because the target system has very small memory, does not support the larger memory sizes so DOS 6 does not work).

Not necessarily MS-DOS, like I said, DR-DOS is an alternative. But MS-DOS is what most people use for the task. And a "real" old PC.

OR an Amiga with a Bridgecard, which can read MSDOS drives and file systems. Easier in some ways, trickier in other ways.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 09:16:58 AM
iiiiiiii.......ttttttt
...ii.............tt
...ii.............tt
iiiiiiii..........tt

iiiiiiii......sssss
...ii.........ss
...ii.........sssss
...ii..............ss
iiiiiii.......sssss

ALIVE !! (again)


Yes indeed. The Bridgeboard is Good. Amiga PC Boots from 5.25.

(( Yes the 5.25 DOS Disk were Magnetized/Deguassed )) Unreadable


DID The Following with a 6.2 DOS Boot Disk that had "Format" command on it.
 
 (Booted Explorer PC with it, then Format /F:360 /s  and Format /F:720 )


-- Formatted a 5.25 Boot Disk 360K in Explorer PC
-- It Boots of Bridgeboard 5.25 and Amiga PC Has Dos

-- Also Formatted a 3.25" 720K Disk
-- It reads on the Bridgeboard External A1010 3.25" Drive. (Cool, never knew that was possible)

HERE IS LIVING PROOF:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/314/32532294475_8c30086934.jpg)

Bit of time wasted on Figuring out 5.25 Boot Disks were bad (the only two I had). Now can make as many as needed.

But learned a Lot. (Now Have an External Bridgeboard 3.25 disk)

And more.

ONWARD to next Steps, which I hope will be more fun.

But next step is some Sleep for Tonight.....
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 11:20:32 AM
You might find this helpful, it makes a boot floppy for any western digital controller? Not sure if only for WD disks, not controllers, but it looks like it's a controller access method.

I suggest you make the floppy, but check it over to make sure it doesn't automatically run the EZ Drive software (it shouldn't, but it's best to check);-

http://www.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php?driverid=32531&si=d355eddaec425fe05a5be8474a5f501e

That one seems closest to what you need right now, if you do a search on the site for everything to do with that controller, most hits show "Windows", not "DOS". The "Disk Manager" software looks good if you do go with the 486, as it gives you options to copy data onto another connected hard drive. Do check over any disks made. You want to be sure about this before booting with floppies with the hard drive connected.

http://members.driverguide.com/driver_search.php?q=western+digital&si=d355eddaec425fe05a5be8474a5f501e&st=1485429222&si_prev=cd5e689088f78c3069cae44f526cde53&gqm0=western+digital

What you could do is, setup with the controller card in the Amiga, but with the hard drive disconnected.

When you are sure as you can be the controller is recognized, then switch off, attach the drive and try to access.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 26, 2017, 11:31:15 AM
Good job!  

My goto website for general bootdisks is this one  http://bootdisk.com/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 11:45:52 AM
Pretty good, but a little bit modern for an XT. These are the sort of systems you are trying to emulate (not very pretty);-

http://www.uncreativelabs.net/index.php?site=xtreview%7Cxtreview.htm (http://www.uncreativelabs.net/index.php?site=xtreview%7Cxtreview.htm)

The page mentions a SYS command to make hard disks bootable. Not relevant for what you are trying to do, but maybe explains why you had problems getting it to autoboot to DOS. The Bridgeboard, that is.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
Thanks for the info. More Tool choices and options for my Toolbox drawers (right next to the Flint, Stone, Stick and string :) ).

So now that things are back to normal with Bridgeboard PC Booting to DOS.

Why isn't CTRL-ALT-ESC working to get to the Bridgeboard BIOS? (You don't need SW, it should just work on PC Boot (during or after boot). Correct ?)
[[[[ Does anyone have a bridgeboard that they can get to this BIO with? (One thing I was thiking is putting back my original Kickstart ROM, but better not to take anything apart right now ]]]

I first thought my ESC key isn't working (since it's beside my F1 Key which doesn't work). (What is a quick test to ensure my Keyboard ESC KEY is working?)

Is this BIOS only for the 286/386 bridgeboard or Sandwich Card and not the 2088?

Or am I doing something wrong, or setup is wrong. (I did read something about a guy having problem getting to the BIOS if Amiga-PC memory was not setup properly (Too low).

My thinking for next steps is to go thru that Bridgeboard install manual (which is great), and go step by step (Making a fresh Bridgeboard workbench with proper Config setup). Right now I have been just using the Bridgeboard Native Workbench Install disk without any customization (Good enough to prove my HW is all setup right and WORKING)

BTW, even though I have no recollection from Eons ago, that bridgeboard manual does ring Bells in my head, that I USED THAT MANUAL to setup the WD Controller and that Ocatgon Hard drive. (It is a many step process)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: darkage;820838
Good job!

My goto website for general bootdisks is this one http://bootdisk.com/

That's a very handy site.  Nice photo's of the pretty ladies too!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 26, 2017, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820853
Is this BIOS only for the 286/386 bridgeboard or Sandwich Card and not the 2088?

Looking at the manual and logically thinking.   Your bridgeboard actually doesn't have a battery onboard for electrical rewritable eeproms.   It just has a static ROM onboard, so it probably doesnt have a configurable bios setup.    The 286 onwards models have coin batteries to help store bios settings.

I too would definitely recreate all the available disks for the bridgeboard and go through the setup again.   I recall theres memory locations in the documentation that the bridgeboard and isa cards have to be set to to avoid conflicts.   maybe go through the setup guides from the start and see what happens.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 26, 2017, 03:59:21 PM
Now I wished I had a bridgeboard.  Seems like alot of fun :P

Actually been thinking of building a z80 clone to try and learn more about hardware artitecture.  

http://rc2014.co.uk/

or

http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/zeta-sbc-v2
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: darkage;820856
Looking at the manual and logically thinking. Your bridgeboard actually doesn't have a battery onboard for electrical rewritable eeproms. It just has a static ROM onboard, so it probably doesnt have a configurable bios setup. The 286 onwards models have coin batteries to help store bios settings.

I too would definitely recreate all the available disks for the bridgeboard and go through the setup again. I recall theres memory locations in the documentation that the bridgeboard and isa cards have to be set to to avoid conflicts. maybe go through the setup guides from the start and see what happens.

 I agree with uou.  When I read about a guy solving issues with accessing his BIOS, he was trying to clear BIOS setting by removing battery.
 
 I bet the 2088 bridgeboard loads it's config from a files.  Possibly even PC-Preferences which I noticed doesn't exist on the Original Bridgeboard Setup disk that I'm using.
 
 So if I go thru the whole bridgeboard manual setup proces (but not format the HD), and I bring back the config file(s) from one of my original Workbench disks.  It might actually work.  (That was recommended earlier in this Thread by Pat_The_Cat.)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 26, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: darkage;820857
Now I wished I had a bridgeboard. Seems like alot of fun :P

Actually been thinking of building a z80 clone to try and learn more about hardware artitecture.

http://rc2014.co.uk/

or

http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/zeta-sbc-v2

Z80 look cools, but you might have more fun and purpose with a Raspberry PI.

I got a really neat HDMI LCD Touch Screen Monitor for my Son's PI to build a Web Based Touch Status Screen (Which talks to my Fish tank controller, that controls his Gaming PC Monitor Power, which limits his gaming time). Basically he can see how much time he has left, can ask for more (Snooze Button). What's cool about this LCD compared to others, is it's really and HDMI screen that you can hook up to anything HMDI.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01F4RSIA2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (Made for a PI1/2, not 3)

As who knows, if I complete or fail on this project, I might have a certified working bridgeboard for sale at a good price (if you have the stomach for pre-stone age Technology) :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 26, 2017, 10:06:42 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820868
 
 So if I go thru the whole bridgeboard manual setup proces (but not format the HD), and I bring back the config file(s) from one of my original Workbench disks.  It might actually work.  (That was recommended earlier in this Thread by Pat_The_Cat.)

Just "Pat" is fine, Wally. :)

That is the thing with these early XT DOS systems - no CMOS to save settings. You had to setup everything with floppy. Single or double floppy was the standard, very few people had hard disks. A bit like Amiga in the early 90s. Apple II was cheaper for hard disk controllers, so more development happened on Apple II than PC-DOS in early days.

Bridgeboards (even early ones) do have one "killer app" - they let you use an ISA network card from the Amiga side, using software like Etherbridge on Aminet. Very primitive bridge, very slow, but VERY cheap hardware if you do have a Bridgeboard Amiga. Cheapest way to hook one up to a SANA-2 network.

Z80 is fun. Not as fun as 68K with an Amiga, but much simpler to get familiar with. I found both nicer than 6502.

A good job you had the external A1010 Amiga drive Wally. That saved your bacon. :) You are not quite there yet, but I think you are much closer to solution.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 26, 2017, 11:27:36 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820870
Z80 look cools, but you might have more fun and purpose with a Raspberry PI.


Raspberry PI is too high level, Ive already got 3 of them.  I really want to get down to basic hardware level to get a deeper understanding.  So constructing a 8bit system would be perfect.  I can also try to design my own peripherals to help teach me more.  

At one stage I was thinking of the mycpu project (http://www.mycpu.eu/)  which is a complete CPU from TTL logic but I thought thats probably a bit extreme.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 27, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
Quote from: darkage;820877
At one stage I was thinking of the mycpu project (http://www.mycpu.eu/)  which is a complete CPU from TTL logic but I thought thats probably a bit extreme.

Holy ****, S100 boards. Haven't played with  them since the mid 80s. That is hardcore. You got to be really good to get that right. What I cut my teeth on.

This guy does easier to build (and prettier) stuff if you want an easier Z80 dev. Still build it yourself, but simpler.

http://www.sowen.com/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 01:10:39 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820878
This guy does easier to build (and prettier) stuff if you want an easier Z80 dev. Still build it yourself, but simpler.

http://www.sowen.com/


Looks like the RC2014 which is the unit Im interested in since it has a modular bus and is not too expensive.

030 sbc looks cool, but I figured I better take baby steps with Z80 first

https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:gryphon_68030:start
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 03:09:02 AM
I'll stick to building Fish Tank Dosing Pumps with Aurdino board.

I'm having enough fun with this Amiga Rebuild.

I do have some good news. THE WD Controller Card is Good.

Before embarking on the Workbench Rebuild, wanted to make sure the journey wasn't a dead end. (Still could be with the Hard Drive).

I Ran the Debug Format Tool on The Controller Card. See below, this proves we have a working card. (I DISCONNECTED THE CABLES from the HD).

I haven't gone further, and I wouldn't even know what to answer for the FIRST (Y/N) Question shown.
 
 ((( When it SAYs  [Current DRIVE is C: ] [Current INTERLEAVE is 4] , and the Drive is not hooked up, IS THIS default, OR Last Config Value stored in EEPROM ))

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/407/32504432656_aa57e8d5c7_b.jpg)

( I will go thru all the questions with defaults, just to post them. With HD not connected)

Now I did read a paper that this particular kind of BIOS tool on WD Controller can actual re-format, but not wipe out a drive by writing ZERO's like a Low Level Format. The Format actually refreshes the drive for longer life (like a READ, and WRITE BACK).

I'm not going to take a chance on doing any format YET. That will be at the very end, if I want to rebuild a new setup. (ie. I give up on getting my schoolwork).

TIME TO PULL OUT THE BRIDGEBOARD MANUAL and follow the steps....
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 03:39:17 AM
I found the installation guide for WD1002A-27X Controller Card.

http://www.os2site.com/dec/hard/harddisk/wd/a2272

THERE IS NO MENTION OF DRIVERS (Just DEBUG, FDISK and FORMAT)

Might that be possible?
 
 And Better yet the step by step and explanation for the WD BIOS Format Tool (different model but same kind of info)
 
 http://ftp://ftp.necam.com/Versa/Old.Portables/Utilities/INSTHD.TXT
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 27, 2017, 03:43:21 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820482
I'll never give up, but I'll take it a bit slower.

Wife and kids want to kill me for blowing away a whole weekend on this.

Wally

Spend time with them too Wally. You've done most of the work, you know it's all viable. Personal relations  really are more important than technology.

If you are going to settle around doing things on the Bridgeboard and Amiga, take your time. Get a SCSI drive going on it. Make it easy for yourself when you do get drive access, to copy all the data off.

Like I said, you only get one guaranteed shot. You will PROBABLY get more than one chance, but there is no sense in rushing it too quick.

You got to remember, the world is different now. People can get ROMs burned over the internet, if they just want a couple. OK, some places do want their own ROM programmers, but there isn't a big market for them. Not for the old ones. There are still quite a few old ones around that work. They cost thousands of pounds brand new, but they don't cost that now.

You got to keep perspective about what really matters. This is personal project for you, so is very very important. I understand that.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 04:06:49 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820882
Spend time with them too Wally. You've done most of the work, you know it's all viable. Personal relations really are more important than technology.

If you are going to settle around doing things on the Bridgeboard and Amiga, take your time. Get a SCSI drive going on it. Make it easy for yourself when you do get drive access, to copy all the data off.

Like I said, you only get one guaranteed shot. You will PROBABLY get more than one chance, but there is no sense in rushing it too quick.

You got to remember, the world is different now. People can get ROMs burned over the internet, if they just want a couple. OK, some places do want their own ROM programmers, but there isn't a big market for them. Not for the old ones. There is still quite a few old ones around that work.

I dedicate too much time to my family. This Computer/Builds and fish tanks is my break. I don't watch TV (Zero), just a good movie the odd time, and reading.

I work from home last 15 years (IT Telco 31 years), while wife a teacher goes to work.
Gives me more time than she has with her driving, so I'm Super Dad, who drives them to school and picks up, makes meals, cleans house on while on Conf. Calls. Drives 14-20 times a week for kids Piano, Karate, Swim, Soccer, Gymnatics, baseball, etc. Tutors 3 kids. etc.. . So I'm good to everyone. They rely too much on me, and I need breaks.

Yes, I am taking it slower on this build, but it' started 2 years ago, and was put on shelf twice. Better to dig in and get it done and over with, then more time for other things. Plus spreading it out too long, Cold Storage Sets in (with Legacy Stuff). At least this time, I'm documenting everything details, in this forum and that helps if I park things so I know where I've left off (and all the notes, Photo's, etc).

Hey, too bad I don't have that University Burner I built. Could have started a Internet ROM burning business to fund my fish tank food. ( Just Kidding ).

You know in some ways, this build wherever it goes is kind of better than seeing what's on that drive. I'm reliving a Amiga Build that I did years ago (brings back memories). That is satisfying enough, and if I format the drive, and build a new system with all things working (a dual boot system on HD). That would feel good enough to close this chapter in my life. (To move on to the 5 other projects planned, started, parked)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 04:11:45 AM
Found a better reference for your controller card that covers fdisk and all that

http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT  

also found a dump of the ROM onboard the ISA controller card.  After you rescue your data, you might want to see if this is a new version of the ROM or not

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/rom/rom.htm

Edit - I actually have a eprom programmer, picked up on one my the many trips to the electronics markets in china.    Its pretty amazing it does hundreds and hundreds of chips.  
http://www.vipprogrammer.com/top3000-eprom-programmer-top3000-universal-programmer-mcu-pic-avr51-programmer-788

Works good, even helped a forum member somewhere else burn a chip tune for their car :P
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 04:21:21 AM
On the Topic of that MC68705 based ROM burner in the photos (Thesis Project Possibly on Hard Drive).

When I graduated from University the Telco Hired me on the spot when I showed off my skills. Then my first project was I built another MC68706 unit. It interfaced in between the parallel port going to the printer which printed the Alarms in the Central office equipment cabinets. Parsed the text for alarm conditions, and which cabinet the alarm was in (announced the Alarm,priority and CABINET/SHELF/SLOT using a voice speech chip over intercom, so guys on the floor didn't need to run back to the printer in the back room, sometimes on another floor). It was a cool proof of concept. Never got implemented across all CO's, but it began a long HANDS ON fun career in IT.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 05:04:02 AM
Quote from: darkage;820884
Found a better reference for your controller card that covers fdisk and all that

http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT

Darkage, this is amazing. A complete manual. I read it all.

So it answers my biggest question. "Is a driver Needed to pick up the C: hard Drive".

Answer is no.

Just DOS (Fdisk) and (Format).

Since I haven't changed any jumpers since it last worked, the Drive should be picked up by the controller. (If it not DEAD, or read below another reason)

I'm going to try "fdisk" again.

But I have a hunch if it doesn't pick up (and I may need your help).

I only have DOS 6.2. Maybe it only supports more modern drives like the WD Lifeguard Disk I have.

Maybe I need DOS 3.x to with and older version of FDISK, and thus the Amiga PC also need to boot with that Older DOS TOO!!

I need a DOS 3.x Boot disk, with the FDISK,FORMAT matched.

For now I'm going to download that older version of the LIFEGUARD tool and see if the AMIGA PC running it pickup up the HD.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 27, 2017, 05:11:53 AM
Be cautious with those manuals - notice they have a block of strange characters at the end?

It looks to me that the original files might have been cut short. MS were very keen to remove ALL dos drivers from easy download. They spent a lot of money doing that, to force end users to switch to Windows 95 onwards.

But maybe I am being too negative. It's all about experimenting and see what works, without causing damage.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 05:33:25 AM
Im pretty sure the ISA MFM Controller, has the driver in the bios.      From the 80's / 90's Ive only seen SCSI and VESA & other IDE addon cards with I/O ports needing additional drivers.   If the hdd controller was on the motherboard then driver would already be on the m/b bios.  

When I saw the screenshot of you successfully running debug against the controller card, my first thought is hook up the MFM drive.   It should automatically work in theory.  (fingers crossed).  

Hopefully the MFM drive is okay and isnt experiencing bit rot.   Thats when you start to investigate applications like spinrite.  

hook it up and see what happens.    and dont run that debug cmd while the hdd is in, dont want to low level format it.   :P

Edit - Found this article about XT hdd driver -  http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com.au/2016/05/working-with-st-506-interface-mfm-hard.html

'The IBM PC and XT BIOSes do not support hard drives and know nothing about them.  Support is added via a BIOS extension found on a hard drive controller card.  The default settings for XT controller cards are I/O 320, IRQ5 and DMA3.  An alternative I/O setting is at 320 and some cards allow the IRQ to be set to 2.  The latter is necessary when using an MFM controller in a Tandy 1000, which uses IRQ5 for video (Ghostbusters will not work properly if IRQ5 is disabled for video, as it can be on the SX and TX).  The controller's BIOS extension also provides hard drive tables for the types of hard drives it supports.'
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 05:49:14 AM
I found my KAlOK Ocatagon Hard Drive.  (MAY NEED THIS FOR FUTUR FORMAT)
 
 http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/DISK/specs/Golden%20Oldie%20Drives.pdf  
 
 Can't tell what Model # (Just a Defect Head sticker on top).
 
 Need remove it to see underneath.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 05:51:24 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820888
Be cautious with those manuals - notice they have a block of strange characters at the end?
The WD Controller Manual looks to me complete.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 06:03:43 AM
This seems interesting even though it would be slow & is expensive.. but still interesting

A MFM / RLL drive emulator http://www.drem.info/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 06:11:15 AM
Darkage,

I thought the same as you. So I Hooked up the Hard Drive, Booted DOS and ran FDISK.

The HARD DRIVE did not pick up in "FDISK" or just typing "C:" in DOS.

I flipped both ribbon cables just in case. Rebooted, and FDISK didn't pick up.

AGAIN, I'm wondering do we need an OLDER VERSION OF DOS to pick up the RLL DRIVE. (Why would Microsoft continue to support super old/obsolete Hard drives in DOS or FDISK?)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I HAVE ALSO Been looking into MS DOS and how drives are recognized (DRIVER or otherwise)

Below shown are two DOS commands that might be "like a Driver" with a BIOS Controller and some smarts on disk.

EXAMPLE IS for a FLOPPY but it does apply to HARD DRIVES TOO



DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
 
THIS IS DRIVPARM Command help http://www.dewassoc.com/support/msdos/drivparm.htm (http://www.dewassoc.com/support/msdos/drivparm.htm)

THIS IS DRIVER.SYS Command help http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/driver.sys.htm

The DRIVER.SYS device driver creates an external reference to the floppy disk drive if it is configured correctly. DO NOT REFERENCE Drive B; otherwise, the floppy disk drive will be installed incorrectly. If you have a hard disk Drive C and you set up DRIVER.SYS, it will create a reference of D: to the 1.44 MB disk in Drive B. Use Drive D to access the 1.44 MB floppy disk drive.

BUT THIS MAY GIVE A CLUE (on a need for OLDER DOS), Just the fact that older drives are not longer supported in DOS 6.2
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 06:18:27 AM
THIS IS GETTING TO BE TOO MUCH.
 
 I am starting to FEEL LIKE FORMATTING THAT HARD DRIVE, and go forward than all this Reverse Engineering.
 
 It may simply prove it works and I'm happy that I have a working system and built it up to whatever it can be.  I wouldn't trust this HARD DRIVE FOR Anything anyway.  It's a collector piece like my OLD 1MB Compact Flash Card.
 
 Or it doesn't work (Hard Drive is toast), or if Formats but we are Still without a recognized HARD DRIVE.
 
 The more I spend time on this Amiga, the more I remember what I did in university.   I used the XT machine to run MATLAB, so I wouldn't have to wait in line in the LABs.
 
 I think I wrote my Thesis using the Amiga Side.  Can't be sure.
 
 Even if it's there all this work for 50 pages of spelling mistakes.
 The Photo's I have, and that Cartridge is the best I could ever want.
 
 Going to think about this, after a bit more tries.
 
 NEXT STEP is to run some WD Tools and see if HD is seen.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 06:28:56 AM
FIRST STRIKE (Failure of Western Digital V2.0 LifeGuard Tool)

This tool doesn't work (won't even run) on AMIGA DOS 6.2 (It's meant for ATA, since it worked in other PC).

Going to download the older version of WD lifeguard
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 06:31:33 AM
Im wondering if the drive has to be low level formatted to match up parameters with the controller card.    but of course we dont want to do that.    this drive has only ever last been used with the amiga right ?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 06:55:44 AM
Quote from: darkage;820896
Im wondering if the drive has to be low level formatted to match up parameters with the controller card. but of course we dont want to do that. this drive has only ever last been used with the amiga right ?

 The controller card should match the drive.  This is all original, bought by me, never touch for ages. (It worked before).
 
 I even checked the WD card and jumper settings.  They are no jumper, (all open), and compared that to the manual that means BIOS is turned on (proven), only one drive (correct) and set to a Hard drive (Highest capacity at the time).
 
 I JUST LOOKED INTO THAT LIFEGUARD TOOL Link you provided.  I have Version 2.1 and it doesn't work.  The download is V1.3 will give it a try (but release notes say lowest supported OS is XP)

 
 IF THAT DOESN'T WORK.   I am seriously at a point where I'll try and FORMAT THE HARD DRIVE
 
 Who knows (as I stated above) the format may refresh the Sectors, and not wipe it out (thus it may become active)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 07:08:49 AM
STRIKE 2 ( THE WD Tool V1.x is Years NEWER than the V2.1)
 
 I downloaded the WD Tool provided.  It's a new version for Windows.
 
 My version 3.2 would only run in DOS, but too new for the Amiga PC
 
 ALL DEAD ENDS
 
 All that I'm going to try before FORMAT:
 
 1) ATTEMPT is the DRIVEPARM and DRIVER.SYS commands. (If they are on my 6.2 DOS Install 3 Disk Set)
 
 2) I just found a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK (With no FDISK on it, just Command.com).  I'll run DOS 6.2 "Fdisk" from DOS 3.3 and if it fails that mean FDISK has changed over 2 versions
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 07:16:46 AM
STRIKE 2.5 (MSDOS 3.3 BOOT DISK incompatible with DOS 6.2 Commands)

As I expected. I tried to run "Format" command from a DOS 3.3 DISK that I found and it won't run in DOS 6.2), then FDISK would even be worse.

If I don't find a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK and FDISK for it, I'll consider this STRIKE 3 and try the format.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 07:42:33 AM
One more bit of research/education for me. (Rough Guesses, I may be totally off)
 
 But could this be the way to get the C: Drive (HARD DRIVE) recognized by AMIGA DOS????
 
 
 DRIVEPARM is a command
 
 DRIVER.SYS is a config file
 
 Within DRIVER.SYS you can insert
 
 DRIVERPARM with options
 and then assign a device
 DEVICE=[drive:][path]DRIVER.SYS /D:number [/C] [/F:factor] [/H:heads] [/S:sectors] [/T:tracks]
 
 as below
 
 Parameter
 
[drive:][path]
    Specifies the location of the DRIVER.SYS file.
 
Switches
 
/D:number
    Specifies the number of the physical floppy disk drive. Valid values for
    number are in the range 0 through 127. The first physical floppy disk
    drive (drive A) is drive 0; a second physical floppy disk drive is drive
    1; a third physical floppy disk drive, which must be external, is drive
    2. For a computer with one floppy disk drive, drives A and B are both
    numbered 0; for a computer with multiple floppy disk drives, drive B is
    numbered 1.
 
/C
    Specifies that the physical disk drive can detect whether the drive door
    is closed (change-line support).
 
/F:factor
    Specifies the type of disk drive. Valid values for factor are as
    follows:
 
        0    160K/180K or 320K/360K
        1    1.2 megabyte (MB)
        2    720K (3.5-inch disk) or other
        7    1.44 MB (3.5-inch disk)
        9    2.88 MB (3.5-inch disk)
 
    The default value for factor is 2.
 
    Generally, if you use the /F switch, you can omit the /H, /S, and /T
    switches. Check the default values for these switches to make sure they
    are correct for the type of disk drive you are using. To determine the
    appropriate values for the disk drive, see the disk-drive manufacturer's
    documentation.
 
    If you specify the /H, /S, and /T switches, you can omit the /F switch.
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 08:57:48 AM
FINAL DECISION (NO Formatting of Amiga PC Octagon HD)

So I decided not to format the Hard Drive using the WD debug utility.

Instead this is the Project Plan:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 1 [ Amiga 2000 with Bridgeboard ] * Completed *
- Amiga 2000 with Sound (working)
- Amiga Monitor (working)
- Amiga Keyboard (Most needed keys working, F1-.. need fix)
- Amiga Mouse (working)
- Epyx Joystick (working)
- 3.5 Internal Amiga Disk (working)
- Bridgeboard (working)
- Amiga External A1010 Drive [Amiga & on Bridgeboard] (working)
- Three Kickstarts ROMS including Original (working)
- OS [Workbench 1.2 & 1.3 on appropriate kickstarts] (Working)
- SW Licenses (Have a few original Copyright Disks for Amiga, Bridgeboard and working downloaded copies)
- CURRENT USABLE (GAMES, MS DOS, Amiga OS) Good old RETRO stuff.
- FUTURE PROJECTS (upgradable with additional components, including Modern solutions)
- CONSIDERATION: Sell   Fully Tested and Working System (All documented in detail on Amiga.org Thread)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 2 [ 386 PC - DOS 6.2 with WD Controller & Hard Drive ] * Future *
- Install WD Controller with HD into 386 AT/XT
- Try to get above working with MS DOS
- HAVE [Hard Drive] [3.25" 1.44 MB Floppy Drive]
- ** Try to get controller working with HD**

- ** Last resort try DEBUG Format on Hard Drive **
- ** IF WORKS ** consider putting back into Amiga **

- ** IF DOESN'T WORK ** Below:
- CONSIDERATION: Sell working WD Controller Card from Amiga PC
- CONSIDERATION: Sell PC RS232 CARD from Amiga PC
- MOMENTO: One Stone Age RLL Hard Drive (for Retro Shelf :) )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 3 [Aurdino Aquarium Pump Doser ] * Critical *
- Amiga Project has side tracked me too much from Priorities
- Tanks Alkalinity has dropped due to distractions (Could Damage/KILL 30 new Corals in new Tank Setup)
- Finishing Automation gives more time for Project #2 (And Family)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At least project #1 is completed and I'm happy :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 27, 2017, 12:16:22 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820096


...
A SCSI controller can be connected to 7 devices, any of which can be a controller.
...



Wutt?   :confused:
Why would anyone connect 7 controllers to an SCSI - the correct term is - host adapter?
The SCSI host is the one that controls the up to 7 devices on the SCSI-II chain (up to 15 devices on UW-SCSI chains)...

(Typo edited)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 27, 2017, 12:55:59 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820110


Moving Forward (Setup almost done)

*** SOME ADDITIONAL CLUES ***

The WD HDD Controller is DOUBLE HOOKED UP to Hard Drive
as shown below:

(And the Next Photo of the OLD WORKING WORKBENCH DISK IS ANOTHER CLUE)
...



Well, this photo makes it clear that it is a MFM/RLL harddrive.
I still have a self-built dual 5 1/4" harddrive unit (2 x 65 mB) with integrated XT power supply, that is connected to the Amiga500 via the so called 'ct-interface' (from the 'ct Computer Magazine), that provides one PC/XT Slot and is plugged into the A500s Expansion port at the left side. In the PC/XT slot sits a 'OMTI MFM/RLL' controller from an old XT PC.

The driver software to operate it on the Amiga was named 'Boil3'.

Provided your controller was not just capable of the MFM format, you could also format a harddrive in RLL format, which allowed for roughly 1/3 more capacity on the same drive.

In my case I got 65 mB when I formatted the drives in RLL format - compared to 43 mB in MFM format.

Back then I also had a "PC Bridge board" in my A500 - the Vortex ATonce 286 Classic  (http://www.bboah.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=48&id=2161&artlang=en).  I could run the Amiga and the PC in parallell and switch back and forth between the systems, which was pretty cool back in 1988/89...

The PC side was started from the Amiga side - I had all the necessary files on the Amiga side of my harddrives. There also was a partition for the PC side on the one of the drives, from where I booted M$-Dos 6.22 or later one of the early Win versions - but just in "monochrome" (IIRC, it was called 'Win for 286')...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 27, 2017, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;820131
@ Wally

I was looking at documentation for the A2386 and the A1060, other Bridgeboards that also use the Janus software. According to those docs, DJMount appears to be self contained. It's apparently able to detect the partition layout on hard disks connected to the PC side and automatically mount Amiga partitions.
...



You mean the PC side boots before the Amiga side was booted?
I don't believe it works that way.

I mean - I have no experience with Janus and the bridgeboard he has - just with the Vortex ATonce 286, PC Task and PCx.

All of them REQUIRE the Amiga to be booted first and then the PC to be started from the Amiga side - and not the other way round.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 27, 2017, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820154


So here is how far I got.

Basically I have a working Bridgeboard disk that I can actually boot from.

-> I used the disk to boot, followed instructions from README

-> PC Booted MS DOS from Floppy (Which is nothing new)

-> Then I ran the SAME commands like on my WORKBENCH DISK

Things Worked.

-> But no HARD DRIVE PICKED UP by Either the Amiga or the PC

Could this mean Hard DRIVE IS TOAST / Maybe Controller Board?
* NOT GIVING UP THAT EASY. I think they are fine **

There are Install Scripts on that Bridgeboard disk that copy stuff to a working Workbench Disk (personal one).

I like the idea of making a new WORKBENCH disk and copy over what I had, and see if things work.

My SUSPICION is there are config files missing on the GENERIC "Bridgeboard DISK". Drive Mappings, Mount points etc.

HERE ARE SHOTS of What I did, and how things worked

Any idea's on next steps???

...

I have BLANK Floppies ready.

Over to you guys for your advice.



Well, your screenshots clearly show you have to start the Amiga first to access the bridgeboard.
So I would assume the HD is Amiga formatted and contains all the stuff to start (initialise) the PC from there, as well as a PC-partition for booting the PC side...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 01:45:36 PM
Quote from: Dandy;820913
Well, this photo makes it clear that it is a MFM/RLL harddrive.
I still have a self-built dual 5 1/4" harddrive unit (2 x 65 mB) with integrated XT power supply, that is connected to the Amiga500 via the so called 'ct-interface' (from the 'ct Computer Magazine), that provides one PC/XT Slot and is plugged into the A500s Expansion port at the left side. In the PC/XT slot sits a 'OMTI MFM/RLL' controller from an old XT PC.

The driver software to operate it on the Amiga was named 'Boil3'.

Provided your controller was not just capable of the MFM format, you could also format a harddrive in RLL format, which allowed for roughly 1/3 more capacity on the same drive.

In my case I got 65 mB when I formatted the drives in RLL format - compared to 43 mB in MFM format.

Back then I also had a "PC Bridge board" in my A500 - the Vortex ATonce 286 Classic  (http://www.bboah.com/index.php?action=artikel&cat=48&id=2161&artlang=en). I could run the Amiga and the PC in parallell and switch back and forth between the systems, which was pretty cool back in 1988/89...

The PC side was started from the Amiga side - I had all the necessary files on the Amiga side of my harddrives. There also was a partition for the PC side on the one of the drives, from where I booted M$-Dos 6.22 or later one of the early Win versions - but just in "monochrome" (IIRC, it was called 'Win for 286')...

Interesting..... Especially the comments about "Boil3", and drivers on the Amiga side.

One last effort I'm going to make, since know so much more about the bits and pieces I have and how they work separately (eg. WD controller), compared to when I started this journey, is to go through the 3 Custom Workbench disk I have Labelled "From Past" as "working" (but are partially not readable, so I can't boot with them) is to go through them all and examine the "startup-sequence files".

There might be a clue in the startup of the Past Working Amiga for something not described in the Bridgeboard Install Manual.

Will try before I start hacking things in the 386, and running the WD Low level format (which could end all hope of data recovery)
 
 Also since I have to take the HD out, I'll put back the original Kickstart ROM, and cut off that Battery (which hasn't leaked yet).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 27, 2017, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820237


On the TOPIC of Photo's and Labeling.
 
 You should get a copy of SnagIt.  It's the best Photo Capture, cropping, labeling, Video All in one tool.  Quick, Easy.  I use at work, and even my kids used at school.  (Worth every penny the few bucks).



I use Xabier Payet's 'SnapShoter (http://www.xabierpayet.com/).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
What's making me scratch my head, is that with this last attempt, I'm putting in a 5.25" DOS boot Floppy to boot the Amiga PC, and thinking I need Drivers to get the WD Controller recognized to recognize the Hard Drive on the PC side.

I'm pretty sure that I never used any 5.25" disks or I would have had some in my collection. The 5.25 disk I have were bought two years ago so that I could boot the Amiga PC.

So somehow the Amiga did Boot from the 3.5" Workbench disk, and the AmigaPC was available to use (thus the PC booted from the Hard Drive, with some kind of access controlled by the Amiga side....Thus the WD controller was activated somehow not thru a PC Floppy boot, but from Amiga having access to the HD passthru the bridgeboard [maybe ADISK as mentioned in the BridgeBoard Install instruction manual). I just don't get how that WD controller woke up and presented a C: drive without a Driver (so maybe it doesn't need a driver, or PC activation, it just need proper Jumpers setting to Match the HD type[which it should since nothing has been changed ] )

THE STARTUP SEQUENCE my OLD WB Disk may hold that answer.

Dandy, I'm going to blame-you/thank-you for getting me motivated again :) :( :) [but first I need to stabilize my fish tank water chemistry(manual top up)]
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
The AMIGA PC floppy disk DOS boot is only needed ONCE to Get access to DOS DEBUG command, to run the INITIAL Low Level Format via the WD Controller BIOS.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Chartus on January 27, 2017, 04:01:41 PM
I have put together many DOS base computers  back in the day.  My first DOS system was a 386-40 with an IDE hard drive.  Reused the hard drive (50meg quantum) from my Amiga 500 system.  Still got that old drive in my closet.  

I came across an old 286 system that had a working MFM hard drive in it. (think it was 20 megs)  I forget what version of DOS that was in it but it was an older version.  Disk compression was popular at that time so I installed that with DOS 6 and got a nice increase in size.  The point is that I didn't need any drivers to install to run it.

So you have a A2000 with an 8088 bridgeboard in it with a MFM card installed in one of the ISA slots running a hard drive. Your trying to get your information from the drive.

The A2000 is making it complicated.  Take the controller card and hard drive out and install it in a PC compatible.  The BIOS on the controller card will help the system detect the drive.
You need to make sure it is working.  If you don't hear the hard drive it is stuck.  (You will hear it if it is spinning) The heads are stuck to the platter. That happens when it sits for too long.   Assuming it works; you can use a boot disk (DOS 6 will work)to boot the computer and read your info.

If you get it running I would just copy the complete drive to something more modern.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 04:16:39 PM
Quote from: Chartus;820925
I have put together many DOS base computers back in the day. My first DOS system was a 386-40 with an IDE hard drive. Reused the hard drive (50meg quantum) from my Amiga 500 system. Still got that old drive in my closet.

I came across an old 286 system that had a working MFM hard drive in it. (think it was 20 megs) I forget what version of DOS that was in it but it was an older version. Disk compression was popular at that time so I installed that with DOS 6 and got a nice increase in size. The point is that I didn't need any drivers to install to run it.

So you have a A2000 with an 8088 bridgeboard in it with a MFM card installed in one of the ISA slots running a hard drive. Your trying to get your information from the drive.

The A2000 is making it complicated. Take the controller card and hard drive out and install it in a PC compatible. The BIOS on the controller card will help the system detect the drive.
You need to make sure it is working. If you don't hear the hard drive it is stuck. (You will hear it if it is spinning) The heads are stuck to the platter. That happens when it sits for too long. Assuming it works; you can use a boot disk (DOS 6 will work)to boot the computer and read your info.

If you get it running I would just copy the complete drive to something more modern.

Chartus, thanks for popping in.... (The Hard Drive spins (hear it, feel it), the head is moving (hear it do a the classic shake sound on power up), but no grinding-screach sounds that it's touching the platter, LED on Hard drive blinks )

That is next plan. (Use my 386 PC and put Controller card and HD into it)

That will at least prove something.

I say this because the next POST confirms the Hard Drive at least has an AMIGA Partition (which PC wouldn't be able to read)

However if there are two partitions (a DOS too), then maybe I could read off PC (AND THAT IS MY GOAL)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
HERE IS HOW MY Original (AMIGA/PC) Workbench compares to a Regular Workbench.

It clearly shows there was an AMIGA Partition on the HARD DRIVE (Doesn't confirm if there was an DOS Partition [ but there could be one] )

Looks like PC-DISK along with DJMOUNT exposes the PC HD (AMIGA PARTITION) to the Amiga side (thru the bridgeboard).

Then after mounting directories, it boot Workbench of that Hard Drive.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/776/31742126483_ed4daa4953_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 04:58:16 PM
Before I do the 386 trial.
 
 I'm made a copy of the Native BRIDGEBOARD (Workbench disk)
 and copied over the "Startup-Sequence".
 
 First attempt to boot didn't work since the paths to all the commands are different.
 
 Adjusting...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 27, 2017, 07:14:57 PM
I'd just compare contents of S, DEVS, LIBS and L folders. That should show main differrences.

C could be important too if it contains command used by the startup-sequence. PATH and ASSIGN for example.

You probably won't find much in the way of C commands, they are usually stripped out from Aminet downloads, as they are still copyrighted, and people still sell Workbench disks (Amiga Forever).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 09:46:15 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820937
I'd just compare contents of S, DEVS, LIBS and L folders. That should show main differrences.

C could be important too if it contains command used by the startup-sequence. PATH and ASSIGN for example.

You probably won't find much in the way of C commands, they are usually stripped out from Aminet downloads, as they are still copyrighted, and people still sell Workbench disks (Amiga Forever).

I did create a NEW WB Disk (from pieces of OLD) that works (Except STILL NO Hard Drive JH0)

However I did learn something.

When DJMOUNT is run there is some kind of PORTAL CREATED for JH0:

(I have proof if I run the ASSIGN command on the Amiga Side) since the DEVICE=JH0 shows up ONLY when DJmount is run.

I figure if the Controller/Hard Drive on the PC side was working it would link the Amiga side to to PC Side. (What the Bridgeboard and Janus does together).

The screen Shot shots below show this: (also notice the DIFFERENT behavior when Typing the JH0: drive, vs a Drive that doesn't exist JH1)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/404/31746771923_aa5a9f9f02_b.jpg)

So this motivates me to work on the 386 computer and get the WD Controller working with the Hard Drive.

If I somehow fix the combo (ie BIOS Format), I could bring that back to the AMIGA and it might work.


(but that's MSDOS 286 Build is becoming a Complex Chore).. Things are picky, order of Drives hooked up matters, BIOS settings, etc.

PROJECT#2 is becoming 2 projects (Since I'm painfully building two DOS 6.2 Machines. THE 386 and I Put a EMPTY Drive in the Explorer PC) will explain later.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;820937
You probably won't find much in the way of C commands, they are usually stripped out from Aminet downloads, as they are still copyrighted, and people still sell Workbench disks (Amiga Forever).
I am using Originals (I own), not downloads of Workbench. But doesn't make a difference.

What has been making me pull my hair out is in some cases the commands don't work. (a copy from one disk to another [eg DJmount] ). Appears the OS workbench and the commands are dependant on each other (like library versions to executable). I'm no expert but in my unix days things don't work well when mixing different versions (ie Like trying to run a DOS 6.2 command in DOS 3.1).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 27, 2017, 10:33:28 PM
ONE MSDOS 6.2 Computer has been built (Explorer PC).
 
 But the XT computer (386) is a challenge.
 
 I can't change things much.  Taking our one Hard Drive, craps out HD controller.  I got two drives in, but I can't make the one I want C: (Even thought I jumper it MASTER).
 
 All I want is a MDOS 6.2 Boot HARD DRIVE, and Floppy to bring stuff in so I can boot DOS and put the WD Controller and HD.
 
 Is there some concept of TERMINATION on the Ribbon Cables?  There are no twists in ribbon cable like the Floppy drives.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 11:38:26 PM
try   cd jh0:  

Not sure if you need to increase the buffers for JH0:  

Found this article http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/access%20a%20JanusTools%20hard%20disk.htm
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 27, 2017, 11:43:22 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820950

 
 Is there some concept of TERMINATION on the Ribbon Cables?  There are no twists in ribbon cable like the Floppy drives.


It seems MFM/RLL drives came with options for straight thru cables and twisted cables.   You could specify via jumpers on drive.   Termination is always on the drive it self.

Check this diagram out for a different model setup.

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/5170_hard_drive_cabling_single.jpg
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 12:20:59 AM
Quote from: darkage;820952
try cd jh0:

Not sure if you need to increase the buffers for JH0:

Found this article http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/access%20a%20JanusTools%20hard%20disk.htm (http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/access%20a%20JanusTools%20hard%20disk.htm)

Thanks for the Article (will check later). Busy on many pieces of this puzzle.

BTW. It would be amazing if "cd jh0:" worked. But it doesn't'.
The behaviour is the same as in the Photo above.   "cd jh0:" gives (can't find jh0: ) and "cd jh1: (Pops up the Insert Volume jh1: ). So something is special about "jh0" when DJmount is run.

And I proved that different versions of WB disk commands don't mix and match well. When I copied over some stuff from my Original WB disk, it works (PC Boots) but this message POP UP. I can't trust this disk anymore, till I restore it.

I think a post above talked about a tool for disk partially-unredable recovery.
But in general this command line copy is painful. What are some good tools for file management?

Is there a way to use a NEW WB Disk, and then my OLD working copy, and just copy everything I can get off of it (overwriting the NEW WB Disk)?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 12:47:17 AM
AMIGA PC (DOS C: RamDrive Trick) Didn't work.
 
 When I was preparing the DOS 6.2 Installs, I came up with an Idea.
 
 I created a Boot disk and put a Small (RamDrive) entry into config.sys.
 Simple 100 K Ramdrive assigned to C:
 
 device=c:\dos\ramdrive.sys 100 /a
 
 I thought that if my luck changes, the PC sde having a C: drive (just like if my HD drive worked) it would trick the JANUS DJMount to think there is a Hard Drive there so that a "cd jh0:" would work.
 
 The RamDrive Worked (Shown Below), but It didn't work to Trick DJMOUNT.
 Of course the Ramdrive is a DOS filesytem, not and Amiga or RAW unformatted disk.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/685/32560468555_7ab438c401_o.jpg)
 
 THIS WAS JUST TO PROVE That the PC Workbench DISK load is truly talking across to the PC side via JANUS.
 
 Maybe the Ramdisk need to be configure differently, and using the format command in the Bridbgeboard Manual. (Haven' tried that)
 
 But the Ramdrive options are here http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/ramdrive.sys.htm#Examples
 
 WITH THAT BEHIND ME and DOS 6.2 all installed on Explorere PC..
 
 Next is  to take out the HardDrive, WD Controller, Put into the 386, and see if Debug Picks up the controller.  
 
 Getting close to the end of all possibilities.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 12:53:24 AM
While you wait for me to tear apart and build HW, I have this to share. A Cartoon Brickworks type Movie I made with my son.

My Son was doing a Computer Graphics Course in Grade 9, So I was doing and experiment with Snails and stuff in my fish tanks. Taking time lapse movies to figure out which snails/critters eat Algae better (tank was infested with Algae). Watching those timelapse of a SeaHare made me think Jabba the Hut they way he moved in High Speed.

Anyway, using my fish tank and props we made a STAR WARS Parody Movie call Algae Wars. It using my fish tank, and stuff, A Educational Comedy Cartoon.

Episode 1 was Last Christmas and Episode 2 this Christmas, next year we'll finished the ending.

I share this since he got like 100% at school, but always complains not many views on YouTube. I tell him, if you learned and enjoyed doing it, that's good enough.

Here are the two episodes.

ALGAE WARS - Episode-1 (The Plan) 2015
(http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/AlgaeWars-Eposide1-BannerYouTube_zpspjjly6pi.jpg)
(http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/YouTubeThumb_zpsugbw9ahu.jpg) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycQ9YPuAaVk&t=98s
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALGAE WARS - Episode-2 (The Weapon) 2016
(http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/AlgaeWars-Eposide2-BannerYouTube_zpsqqlhp563.jpg)
(http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/YouTubeThumb_zpsugbw9ahu.jpg) https://youtu.be/AbjrROyxjlo"]https://youtu.be/AbjrROyxjlo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boring if you don't like Star Wars and don't like Fish tanks. (If you like either, you might enjoy it)


I'll have that WD controller and HD installed and tested tonight if all goes well.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 02:01:15 AM
Bad Cut on Paste on the You Tube Links for the Algae Wars Movies.

These are correct.

(Algae Wars : Episode 1 [The Droids] ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycQ9YPuAaVk

(Algae Wars Episode 2 [ The Weapon] ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbjrROyxjlo
 
 There might be a sequel call "Amiga Wars [ The Bridgeboard Drive ] ) :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
Quote from: darkage;820954
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5170/misc/5170_hard_drive_cabling_single.jpg
Many thanks.  How little I know.  I thought the Terminator was a thing you put on the end of a Ribbon Cable Connector when not hooking up a drive to it. (It's on the Circuit board.  Now I know how to do that step of reseating them.)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 02:25:21 AM
Quote from: darkage;820952
try cd jh0:

Not sure if you need to increase the buffers for JH0:

Found this article http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/access%20a%20JanusTools%20hard%20disk.htm (http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/access%20a%20JanusTools%20hard%20disk.htm)

Many Thanks.

Reading this gives some more insight. More happens and in configured than I thought. Learned about DISKINFO and PC/SYSTEM/ABOOT.CTRL (Plus SYS:/DEVS/MountList, that one I've been peeking at and all my Entries, I see nothing beyond a few standard things and floppies. ** There should be a Mount to a HARD DISK ** )
 
 So it is key to Run DISKINFO and put Output that into MountList.  (Great Info)
 

The bits and pieces are endless to assemble the Bridgeboard advanced stuff.

Janus Tools is another thing.

I'm so in the dark (learned so much) but still mountains to climb to fully understand it all.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 02:35:54 AM
I just went thru all my Amiga Floppies (Working or not, but readable)

Not one has a MountList with anything pointing to a Hard Drive.

I must have just used the HARD drive like I thought. For the PC School Lab work.

And now I notice on the Bridgeboard the Installed MATH Co-Processor on the 2088 Bridgeboard (I remember buying that extra) , which I need for MATHLAB to run.

This help to know this. Hard Drive should only be one partition, DOS Filesystem and if it's alive, then 386 could possibly pick it up.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 03:24:53 AM
Amiga 2000 Taken Apart. Controller and Hard drive removed (Peek at Motherboard)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/556/32562284555_76662f470f_b.jpg)

Got Board Spec while I have things out.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/624/31750440133_abfc61acbb_o.jpg)

My 5 year old Tower Computer is more dusty than this.

Reading up on how best to remove that Battery.
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/527/32409306382_a5af555c7f_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 03:52:02 AM
Battery Out (Soldering Iron and a pair of Needle Nose Pliers)
 
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/581/32183397210_95764c502d_o.jpg)
 
 It never leaked, but it eventually would.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Fats on January 28, 2017, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820955
BTW. It would be amazing if "cd jh0:" worked. But it doesn't'.
The behaviour is the same as in the Photo above.   "cd jh0:" gives (can't find jh0: ) and "cd jh1: (Pops up the Insert Volume jh1: ). So something is special about "jh0" when DJmount is run.


Using the info command in Amiga CLI should reveal more information on how JH0 is handled.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: Fats;820989
Using the info command in Amiga CLI should reveal more information on how JH0 is handled.
Thanks. Will try that.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 28, 2017, 10:57:10 PM
QUICK UPDATE on overall Progress (Reached the END)

I got lots done last night till wee hours of the morning, but I finished at a Dead End (kind of).

I'll update with Photo's and details but here is a summary:

- I put the WD Controller in the 486 PC (it's a 486 not 386), but it wouldn't boot since there was a DOUBLE HD controller conflict.

Problem is my 486 Controller is also a Floppy controller so having the WD controller in meant no Floppy to boot DOS from (but I tried just the WD controller alone, and BIOS wouldn't pick up the WD + Octagon drive.

This meant I couldn't even try doing the DEBUG on the 486 to format the drive.

- So I re-assembled the AMIGA 2000, and all is good (never broke anything). One thing I noticed is when booting AMIGA/PC there is a clock error message (since battery is gone), but everything still works.

- I put back the WD Controller with HD into Amiga and tried the DEBUG Format with the options I found for the Drive (Best Guess from this List)
http://www.mfarris.com/hard/Kalok.html

The format did attempt to run, but came back with an ERROR CODE ( I never noticed any blinking of the LED light on the HD)

- So I've reached a dead end on making that DRIVE WORK. There is nothing I can think of, unless someone comes up with something.


- THE AMIGA project is completed.
- THE HD recovery attempt Project is completed

Time to get back to my fish tank room maintenance/projects which has been neglected for the past week or so.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/267/32577139185_90873e5200_b.jpg)

I'll post details later.  
 
 (BTW. I wasted a LOT of time with the 5.25"  Floppy work around.  The 486 PC setup was fine and B: drive was fine.  When I worked on the Amiga Battery, I thought of the fact that 486 was old and BIOS config was lost since dead battery.  When I played with BIOS for 5.25" drive, the B: drive recognized and started working.  arrgh!!)

Future for Amiga is unknown. May fool around a bit more when I have time. May consider some fun upgrades. May just sell complete or split up into parts. Don't know right now.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 07:02:11 AM
As promised, here are the details of my final attempt to see if the WD controller BIOS Format would work on the KALOK Hard drive.

According t the manual the ERROR CODE 80 I got is Timeout (Not sure what that means), since there is no detailed explanation. (Maybe Cabling is reversed on one of the ribbons???).

I did flip BOTH cables and the LED on the HDD went ON SOLID. Which usually means reversed cable on a IDE type cable.

Now that I think about it, I should have just flipped One Ribbon cable at a time.  But why would they reverse PIN one on one cable and be inconsistant.
 I could try flipping the cables one at a time and try.
 
The full list of Completion codes are below:

Table 1 - Error Codes

Code Completion Code Summary

01 Bad Command
02 Address Mark Not Found
04 Sector Not Found
05 Reset Failed
07 Set Parameters Failed
09 Attempt to DMA across 64K boundary
0B Bad Track
10 Correctable Data Error
11 ECC Error Corrected
20 Controller Failure
40 Seek Failure
80 Time-out
BB Undefined Error
FF Read Status Failed


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/370/32204242730_c68d834588_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 07:29:07 AM
While looking on WEB to check proper cabling I found a Article how to get data of an MFM drive like the KALOK Octagon.

Explains how PC/XT works with a WD type controller with it's own BIOS.
Kind of mentions why my 486 BIOS machine may work with the WD controller with BIOS (thus why it works with the Bridgeboard with NO HDD BIOS)

Also explains how you can hook up to the drive and read data off.

Including a DOS/WinXP Tool call Sprite for Data Recovery of HDD's https://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm
The tool isn't so much to get the data off, but it will pick up drives GEOMETRY, so that proper parameter can be used to READ/or RE-FORMAT the drive using WD Controller BIOS.
 
 (( And the cool thing mentioned in the Article is that you need to disable the Floppy Controller not to Conflict with the WD digital Controller, which is exactly what happened to me on the 486))

Article link is below (Transferring data off that old MFM or RLL drive)
http://home.icequake.net/~nemesis/blog/index.php/archives/81

Lucky for me I that Format didn't run. :)

Back luck for me, this journey may not have ended :(
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 08:17:47 AM
OH!! MY!! (The Cables were reversed) ** Controller now talking to DRIVE ***

Every picture I saw showed no difference between the cables.

I ASSUMED my cables were not reversed based on the PIN 1 RED marker on the cables. (At that the HDD side of the cable Connector has a NOTCH, so can go on only one way)

Then I looked closely a the HDD connector, and the ribbon on each goes in the opposite way. (Thus reversed)

1) I Put on cable so that LED wouldn't go SOLID (One that would go solid reversed)
2) Then other cable I flipped

*BINGO*
I ran the WD Bios Utility and (NO TIMEOUT ERROR Code 80).
I guess the code means can't talk to Hard Drive Controller.

WD Controller is now talking to HD Controller and ready to Format.

Hmm. Holding off this time, after some thinking. Need Characteristics of Drive.

Or WTF, just format it. I don't care about the school paper anymore.

Care more about getting this HD working. (How things change after so much pain, and will to success on a challenge)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/597/32431219082_b3ed1ced2b_b.jpg)
 
 BUT!!  After this step forward, the first thing I thought is  ( NOW THE AMIGA PC/ Birdgeboard/DJMOUNT should WORK)
 
 Maybe it will, since so many changes/HACKS  the WORBENCH DISKS.  Must check and try the others.
 
 NEXT STEP:  (Try all those Workbench Disks, or build new one, like the original Plan)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 29, 2017, 09:04:41 AM
I wouldn't format the drive, at best see if you can use a modern replacement and leave the drive on the side until you have more ideas.    Best to find out what those jumpers are next to the terminator resisters on the actual drive (near the ribbon connector).

I just bumped into the following - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JVUez4XxpI

XT ISA CF Card - https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/revised-isa-compactflash-pcb/

Looks interesting and may make your computing experience more fun.

Theres other interesting boards - https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/product-category/retro-ibm-pc/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 09:07:28 AM
Quote from: darkage;821010
I wouldn't format the drive, at best see if you can use a modern replacement and leave the drive on the side until you have more ideas. Best to find out what those jumpers are next to the terminator resisters on the actual drive (near the ribbon connector).

I just bumped into the following - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JVUez4XxpI

XT ISA CF Card - https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/revised-isa-compactflash-pcb/

Looks interesting and may make your computing experience more fun.
FOR SURE I won't be formatting the drive.

 Will read you material later. Thanks, every tidbit helps, and there have been many tidbits to get to where I am now.
 
 Right now thinking about NEW NEXT STEPS.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 09:18:02 AM
So here is my thinking....

NOW THAT CONTROLLER (is working) and HARD DRIVE CONTROLLER (is working) and they are talking, that presents a few possibilities.

The Hard Drive may be DATA CORRUPT, but let's put that aside (it may not be).
But even if the HARD DRIVE bits are corrupt, then PC wouldn't boot, or would be full of unreadable data just like some of my floppies are.

I figure that if I get things configured properly, (and data is bad), then I should get read errors (since controller and drive controller is fine).

BUT RIGHT NOW, I'm not getting Visibility to the WD-HARD-Drive-CONTROLLER (that is key)


I'm no Amiga or PC-XT Expert, but there are 3 basics scenarios (corrupt or not-corrupt).

1) The drive has a AMIGA FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
2) The drive has a DOS FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
3) The drive has BOTH a [DOS and AMIGA IMAGE]

** due to small drive size, there is probably only 1 or 2 partitions **

I need to read the BRIDGBOARD install Guide steps to fully understand how that new-install/config would be done (there will be clues)

------------------------------ DOS IMAGE SCENARIO --------------------------------------
NOW if a DOS Partition, then somehow (since we know we don't need drivers) the Controller should present a C: or D: Drive, but it doesn't (YET), or if no DOS image (it can't)

Need to figure out how that is done (if an DOS image is there).

(Darkage, that YOUTUBE PC-Pimp guy video (you linked above) should know. I notice the tel # on the you tube video. (416) is in Toronto Canada Area :) )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------- AMIGA IMAGE SCENARIO --------------------------------
No idea how this works (yet), but the amiga Bridgeboard manual will provide clues
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I have some research and reading to do.
Everyone welcome to send me idea's or links they find.

Next step is to READ THAT BRIDGEBOARD MANUAL very carefully and understand the NEW BUILD procedure for a IBM-SideHDD and a AMIGA SIde Access to it.

I think if there was a DOS Image, then the AMIGA/PC would see a C: drive. (but it doesn't)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOUND IS SOMETHING THAT TRIGGERS Memory
So even if I don't remember how I used The Amiga 2000
Every time I hear the Computer power up (now), and that Hard Drive's Head makes the LOUD shake-wiggle sound.
It's music to my ears.....
I expect to hear follow up shakes and for the AMIGA to BOOT (without a Workbench Floppy in there), but it doesn't I only get 2 shake sounds.
That is a memory in my head, I haven't forgotten from YEARS BACK.

that "TAT.....TAT.TAT....TAT.TAT.TAT......TAT.TAT.... sound.
It's pretty distinct "squeak" sound that a A2000-HD Makes with Old HD Drive and Metal case. (You got to hear it to understand)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 29, 2017, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821009
OH!! MY!! (The Cables were reversed) ** Controller now talking to DRIVE ***

Classic problem when dealing with these drives - the cables are never keyed. So you have to check them both ends, from diagrams, to make sure. :)

As for links, I reckon if you check over the boot floppy downloads I recommended (just download, put on floppy, examine floppy contents) should give you a working boot floppy.

The BIOS on these controllers is very, very limited. Typically they do require CONFIG.SYS to have an entry that points at a driver file. They are extremely small, but required. That's booting on a PC.

Reading the BB manual and setup guides is vital to going through Amiga to get at the data. Especially the bit about how JH0, main PC boot disk, is implemented - as PC hard disk partition, as Amiga partition, or as Amiga hard file (not true partition, but encoded). I think those are main 3 choices, this is further on in BB manual.

Yes, the old noises are very encouraging. I think you are nearly there now, in terms of stages. But it's understanding how the different systems need to be setup to access the drive that you are missing.

This last stage will probably take quite a lot of reading and experiment, but the actual steps needed are not that big. It is just getting them right that matters.

Drive sounds healthy, like I said, the magnetic domains are BIG on small capacity drives, so they tend to remember things very well in storage.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 29, 2017, 06:01:02 PM
Pat,

Thanks for the confirmation and words of encouragement.

I agree that the BB manual is critical for the solution.

My efforts are going to be threefold (based on a proper cabled system):

1) BB setup details (mostly for understanding the Amiga Access to HD and what config files on AmigaDOS/JANUS make that happen)
--> Attempt a new install of Bridgeboard (Skipping the PC HD Format, which was once done)

2) Since much of my efforts have been with a mis-cabled HD, everything I've tried is the past may needs to be re-tried
--> Trying to boot the Amiga with every Workbench disk I have AGAIN).
--> Recover and/or Build a new reconstructed WB disk (with files off my old disk, but I shouldn't assume any of the old disks are correct)

3) THE Amiga PC Side (has me thinking). If now I can DEBUG (BIOS) access the Harddrive, WHY does FDISK not pick up the C: drive?

--> Some more research on why that is not happening
--> Could it be DOS 6.2 FDISK (may need to try DOS 3.3)
--> I forgot to put back the Original Kickstart ROM during battery removal (Could that be the magical Solution to make the Older Version of JANUS work). Must do that
------> Few years ago when I struggled (with possibly improper cabled HD), I bought that Kickstart rom, and had progress, but more on the front of Newer Workbench running.

--> Could a DOS Driver be needed (I assumed not, but could be wrong)
--> To solve this I need to look into the PC-XT materials more (possibly PC FORUMS)

Yes this will all take time. Much more with bad luck, much less with some good luck.

NEXT STEP: Put back original Kickstart ROM (kind of like getting the Cables right). Maybe after ordering a COIN Replacement battery (and installing it)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 29, 2017, 11:36:13 PM
Well, here's an idea...

... you say you have lots of SCSI drives stashed, and it's not that hard to get ISA SCSI controllers for the PC. MUCH cheaper than Amiga SCSI controllers. Getting 8 bit ones not so easy, true, but if you can find locally, should not be expensive - they are very very old and very very slow.

Why not try setting up a "virgin" PC SCSI controller and drive first, as a test run, so you can make mistakes without losing any data...

... Then, when you are sure you understand all the issues with using ISA hard drive controllers, you can do it for real with the old school card and drive you have?

That way, you have freedom to experiment, and mistakes don't matter. You can learn easier about the issues involved. Especially differences between XT and AT. I think that is where you having most problems - XT usage is very rare now. Most people never ever train with them, they learn theory from books and never use them.

As for removing battery, is good idea to replace. Amiga will see the clock is not updating and will report a fault. Is hard to say if this will be problem until replaced - maybe your old Janus config files are set to using clock and will not work without. I say "maybe" because I never test that, for obvious reason. ;)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 12:32:59 AM
Pat, Great Idea.
 
 I have plenty spare IDE,  SCSI (maybe), SATA, PSATA Hard Drives.
 
 All I need for the Amiga PC bus side is a controller card.  The WD controller I have won't work for anything other than my MFM ALOK Octagon.  Correct?  
 
 I wonder if the 486AT Hard Drive/Floppy drive controller would go into the Amiga (I have  drivers on the 486 MS DOS), but I doubt it.  Highly doubt it.
 
 BUT before I consider any of the above, I want to try the ORIGINAL KICKSTART ROM and all my OLD workbench disks. (That won't cost me a penny).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 12:36:00 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821048
Well, here's an idea...
As for removing battery, is good idea to replace. Amiga will see the clock is not updating and will report a fault. Is hard to say if this will be problem until replaced - maybe your old Janus config files are set to using clock and will not work without. I say "maybe" because I never test that, for obvious reason. ;)

Removing the battery is good protection. But it was actually still a working battery (Kind of tells you how good shape this A2000 is).
The Amiga isn't complaining about battery missing, only shows up on the Janus PC boot, but it's just a warning, and DOS boots up.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 30, 2017, 12:44:41 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821052
 
 All I need for the Amiga PC bus side is a controller card.  The WD controller I have won't work for anything other than my MFM ALOK Octagon.  Correct?

It should work with ANY MFM hard drive. It was a standard, just a very tricky one to deal with.

So, either look for another MFM drive to play with, or a different 8 bit ISA controller for a drive you already have.

Then you have test kit to learn with and you know the data cannot be messed with until you are good and ready.

EDIT: I will check my collection, I did have some ISA SCSI cards, if you cannot find any (but I would have thought not too hard to find). I paid 99 cents for them. This will not be quick though, I have rather a big collection.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 30, 2017, 02:54:05 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821055
It should work with ANY MFM hard drive. It was a standard, just a very tricky one to deal with.

So, either look for another MFM drive to play with, or a different 8 bit ISA controller for a drive you already have.

Then you have test kit to learn with and you know the data cannot be messed with until you are good and ready.


I would grab the 8bit ISA CF card PCB, if it works then it would give you a great test bed to play with.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 03:53:17 AM
Quote from: darkage;821063
I would grab the 8bit ISA CF card PCB, if it works then it would give you a great test bed to play with.
I guess you mean one of these.
(This one is assembled)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Assembled-Tested-Working-Lo-tech-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-IDE-for-8-Bit-PCs-/282312406702?hash=item41bb2176ae:g:9HYAAOSwL7VWoBxq

They do come as build your own kits. (for a bit cheaper)

Kind of too much to spend on my purpose.

Contacting my friend who lent me the upgraded 486 which the PC case is mislabelled 286. He keeps way more stuff in his storage room than me.

Also going to visit a Electronic Surplus store nearby. There is a section at the back I never paid attention to. Piles of old computers.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 04:17:39 AM
KICKSTART ROM Question.
 
 I am hesitant on opening up the Amiga to put back the original KS1.2 ROM.  Things could get broken with too much take-apart.
 
 
 Are the newer KICKSTARTS backward compatible? , so I shouldn't worry about my older bridgeboard having issues for my JANUS software version.
 (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/657/32449298832_6c791880e2_o.jpg)
 
 Would hate to spend hours/days on wasted effort to find out at the end that a Lower Kickstart ROM would have solved everything earlier.  
 
 (Like the Cable being reversed , or the BIOS not set on the 486. TWICE I wasted a lot of unnecessary time and effort.)
 
 Might be worth holding off till I get a battery to install.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 30, 2017, 04:21:48 AM
There isn't a huge difference, but to be SURE, putting back the same one you used originally would be worth it.

For your peace of mind more than anything. :)

IIRC Setpatch on Workbench 1.3 was quite large, so there were some bugs introduced in 1.3 ROM, as well as some bugs removed.

I really doubt any of these affected Bridgeboard usage, but I could be wrong, and like I said, it is best to be SURE.

ROM chips are usually very robust, they can take things like bent pins, static electricity etc very well.
Quote from: wbrejnia;821068

Contacting my friend who lent me the upgraded 486 which the PC case is  mislabelled 286. He keeps way more stuff in his storage room than me.

Also going to visit a Electronic Surplus store nearby. There is a  section at the back I never paid attention to. Piles of old  computers.

This is something good about Eastern Europe. In UK, stuff is either  recycled for gold and copper content or shipped outside Europe and dumped if  hazardous material.

Space / land is so expensive here, there are a few stores that hang on to old stuff, but they are nearly all gone now.

Happy hunting. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 30, 2017, 04:26:56 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821068

Contacting my friend who lent me the upgraded 486 which the PC case is mislabelled 286. He keeps way more stuff in his storage room than me.

Also going to visit a Electronic Surplus store nearby. There is a section at the back I never paid attention to. Piles of old computers.

This is something good about Eastern Europe. In UK, stuff is either recycled for gold and copper content or shipped abroad and dumped if hazardous material.

Space is so expensive here, there are a few stores that hang on to old stuff, but they are nearly all gone now.

Happy hunting. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 04:30:48 AM
BATTERY REPLACEMENT ( COIN Battery with Diode )
 
 Found this link about just using a Coin battery instead of the rechargeable.
 
 I'll do slightly different, and run a wire to have access to replace the battery.
 
 http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/07/23/battery-replacement
 
 I have the parts (minus the Coin Battery Holder) but can build a hard Soldered version for now.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 30, 2017, 04:34:25 AM
Yes, battery is battery, will do the same job.

Remember, solder is old school - lead based. You do not need very hot iron, it should melt easy.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 06:17:46 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;820133
That is an excellent point!

Do you remember back when you used to use this system, did you have to have a disk in both drives in order for it to boot? Odd system, in any case. Basically a bare-bones Amiga (not even the 1MB Agnus), but with a whole bunch of expansions added on the Bridgeboard/PC side. What did you use it for, back in the day? Mostly PC software, I would assume. :lol:
I've seen/built as least 300 computers its hard to remember my 3rd over 30 years ago (but the Amiga was special).
 I know I played games uses Floppies, since I still have them in a box.
 I know I use the Amiga PC for DOS and DOS Programs, since it was used for school.
 I still have every single floppy I ever had, (except the DOS floppies, which is a clue)
 
 BUT I can't remember if I had Workbench on a Hard Drive, or if I had Dos on a Hard drive (or both).  That is the mystery. (Best bet in it was Amiga Partition on the PC side, and Amiga Booted Amiga Workbench, because I remember the SOUND of the Hard Drive, and there never was a Hard Drive on the Amiga Side).
 
 I'm sure if I saw it whatever is on that Hard Drive Boot, then memory would come back.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 06:29:07 AM
I've read the Bridgeboard Manual a dozen times.  (But just found something new.)

Everything in BB Manual (setup Apendix) points to running FDISK on the PC Side to partition the PC HARD DRIVE. Regardless of if a Partition exists or not.

but running (DOS6.2) FDISK returns "NO fixed Disk", which is pure [DOS PC] and the [WD controller - Hard Drive ]

** I keep hinting that maybe DOS 6.2 FISK may not support my setup **

So nothing can be done more for an DOS Partition and Format.

However I just discovered the "ADISK" command, with is the same as FDISK but to create an AMIGA Partition on the HD.

I found it in the Amiga Resource Section of the Bridgeboard. With all the DISKS that came with the Bridgeboard.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/332/32450617272_e89f4db2c0_o.jpg)

If things were working/setup properly, I bet if I run FDISK the AMIGA Partition will show up.

Could I be that lucky? Probably not, since if FDISK isn't picking up Controller, then ADISK won't (Who knows)

And I bet, I will face another challenge. Everything that came with BB was DOS 3.3 (so this ADISK may not run).

I DO have a 5.5" DOS 3.3 Boot disk, but it won't boot on the 486 PC.

So my work is to figure out some way.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 06:55:33 AM
FDISK and DOS 3.x
 
 So I found out that FDISK in MSDOS 3.3 and lower was an INTENAL COMMAND, not a Separate FDISK.com command like in MSDOS 6.x.
 
 http://www.computerhope.com/fdiskhlp.htm
 
 So that MS DOS 3.3 (3.5" Disk) I have has everything I may need (FDISK).  And the Bridgeboard has a DOS 3.x version of (FDISK).
 
 But what's got my head scratching is why it won't boot on the 486?
 No read error, it just start booting, and HANGS.
 
 Is there a reason it won't boot?  I understand earlier version of DOS were built for the pre-286 CPU's.  (My Bridgeboard is 2088 CPU).
 
 I'm not PC expert, to understand the compatibilities, but my hunt is to get a DOS 3.x bootable disk working.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 08:40:19 AM
SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS (but No Results)

- Got a DOS 3.3 Image
- Made a DOS 3.3 (3.5" bootable Disk)
- Booted 486 with (3.5" DOS 3.3 Disk)
- Formatted a 5.25" DOS Boot Disk

DOS 3.3 Format is different from higher DOS
http://www.robvanderwoude.com/format.php

FORMAT B: /4 /S (for a 360K Bootable Floppy)

- Copied over Janus and A-DOS BB files to Boot Disk

- Booted Amiga PC in MS DOS 3.3

- Ran FDISK, Runs Nice but (Error: No fixed DISKS)

- Ran ADISK, Runs Nice but (Error: Partition read/write error! )

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/458/31793377813_19d2c82e51.jpg)

** SAME ERROR with Drive cables connected or NOT **

 
 
NEXT STEP: (SOMEHOW THE CONTROLLER isn't properly presenting the C: Drive to Amiga PC) Need to figure out Why? (PC searches, Forums, ... ) )
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 30, 2017, 10:52:12 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;820955


...
BTW. It would be amazing if "cd jh0:" worked. But it doesn't'.
The behaviour is the same as in the Photo above.   "cd jh0:" gives (can't find jh0: ) and "cd jh1: (Pops up the Insert Volume jh1: ). So something is special about "jh0" when DJmount is run.



I'm still a bit confused about how your system is set up.

In my system 'autoboot' was not supported and so I had to boot from DF0: with a floppy disk called 'BootDisk'. This contained all the necessary files '(s/startup-sequence and all commands in c/ required by the Startup-sequence, incl. 'boil3' and 'movesys') to boot the system just far enough to be able to load Boil3 from the 'BootDisk:c/', to mount the harddrives with 'Boil3' and to move the system over from the floppy to the harddrive(s) mounted by boil3 with command "movesys dh0:". Then the "rest" of the startup-sequence was executed from DH0:s/startup-sequence.
After that my Workbench was readily booted.

When I wanted to use my "PC-bridgeboard" (the Vortex ATonce 286 classic) I had to start it from the already booted Amiga side - either by using the Vortex floppy disk, or by double-clicking a 'batch-file' containing all the necessary info to start the Vortex (after having copied all necessary stuff from the Vortex disk to the relevant Amiga system directories on the HD, of course). This initialised the Vortex board and booted the PC side from the M§-DOS partition on the (already mounted and working) HD(s).

Although your setup is completely different, I would expect it to work in the same manner:
- first your Amiga must be booted (either directly from HD, or from floppy to mount the HD for full booting)
- after the Amiga is fully booted the PC bridgeboard can be started and M$-DOS or Windows can be launched (either from floppy disks, or from HD).

Quote from: wbrejnia;820955


And I proved that different versions of WB disk commands don't mix and match well. When I copied over some stuff from my Original WB disk, it works (PC Boots) but this message POP UP. I can't trust this disk anymore, till I restore it.



Yeah - mostly this happened when you booted e.g. WB 3.1 and then tried to run an obsolete command from WB 1.3...

Quote from: wbrejnia;820955


I think a post above talked about a tool for disk partially-unredable recovery.
But in general this command line copy is painful. What are some good tools for file management?



For "quick and dirty" file operations I use DOpus 4.16.
But you can also try one of the later versions.
Download the version you like from DOpus (Directory Opus) on Aminet (http://aminet.net/search?query=dopus&start=50).

Quote from: wbrejnia;820955


Is there a way to use a NEW WB Disk, and then my OLD working copy, and just copy everything I can get off of it (overwriting the NEW WB Disk)?



???
Not sure if I fully got what you mean...
You want to overwrite a new WB Disk (an 'original' one?) with the content of your old working copy of an original WB disk?

I would never overwrite 'original' disks...
Your "OLD working copy" may have been modyfied (either by you manually, or by the system automatically - e.g. the "user-startup") and so be no longer 'original'.
But basically you can of course overwrite any "new WB Disk" - just make sure the "Write Protect" is disabled.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 30, 2017, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821012


...
I'm no Amiga or PC-XT Expert, but there are 3 basics scenarios (corrupt or not-corrupt).

1) The drive has a AMIGA FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
2) The drive has a DOS FORMATTED IMAGE (one or more partitions)
3) The drive has BOTH a [DOS and AMIGA IMAGE]

** due to small drive size, there is probably only 1 or 2 partitions **



Most likely it's option 3)...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821012


I need to read the BRIDGBOARD install Guide steps to fully understand how that new-install/config would be done (there will be clues)
...
Next step is to READ THAT BRIDGEBOARD MANUAL very carefully and understand the NEW BUILD procedure for a IBM-SideHDD and a AMIGA SIde Access to it.



That seems to be the best idea...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 30, 2017, 11:37:41 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821052


...
All I need for the Amiga PC bus side is a controller card.  



No.
Normally you have a PC Partition (or a PC 'file') on your Amiga harddrive.
No additional hardware (e.g. drive controller card) needed for the PC side.
The PC side normally uses the Amiga harddrive (either a partition on it, or a 'file').

Quote from: wbrejnia;821052


The WD controller I have won't work for anything other than my MFM ALOK Octagon.  Correct?  



It should at least work for all MFM harddrives. In case the WD Controller is also capable of RLL, you can format your drive(s) in RLL format in order to  obtain roughly 1/3 more drive storage capacity.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821052


I wonder if the 486AT Hard Drive/Floppy drive controller would go into the Amiga (I have  drivers on the 486 MS DOS), but I doubt it.  Highly doubt it.
 


Why would you want to use this 486 Controller with your Amiga?

Quote from: wbrejnia;821052


BUT before I consider any of the above, I want to try the ORIGINAL KICKSTART ROM and all my OLD workbench disks. (That won't cost me a penny).



If you have several different versions of Kickstart Chips, you might want to fit an Reprogrammable Kickstart Switcher (http://www.vesalia.de/e_a500flash.htm) or an mechanical Kickstart Switcher (http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/80YAAOSwpIdW7tSg/s-l300.jpg).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 03:37:09 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821084
I'm still a bit confused about how your system is set up.

In my system 'autoboot' was not supported and so I had to boot from DF0: with a floppy disk called 'BootDisk'. This contained all the necessary files '(s/startup-sequence and all commands in c/ required by the Startup-sequence, incl. 'boil3' and 'movesys') to boot the system just far enough to be able to load Boil3 from the 'BootDisk:c/', to mount the harddrives with 'Boil3' and to move the system over from the floppy to the harddrive(s) mounted by boil3 with command "movesys dh0:". Then the "rest" of the startup-sequence was executed from DH0:s/startup-sequence.
After that my Workbench was readily booted.

When I wanted to use my "PC-bridgeboard" (the Vortex ATonce 286 classic) I had to start it from the already booted Amiga side - either by using the Vortex floppy disk, or by double-clicking a 'batch-file' containing all the necessary info to start the Vortex (after having copied all necessary stuff from the Vortex disk to the relevant Amiga system directories on the HD, of course). This initialised the Vortex board and booted the PC side from the M§-DOS partition on the (already mounted and working) HD(s).

Although your setup is completely different, I would expect it to work in the same manner:
- first your Amiga must be booted (either directly from HD, or from floppy to mount the HD for full booting)
- after the Amiga is fully booted the PC bridgeboard can be started and M$-DOS or Windows can be launched (either from floppy disks, or from HD).
Dandy,

Some great information here.

I agree with your boot sequence (my system was similar).
- Amiga Booted Intially from A WB disk (I still have 2 WB disks from the past) But don't boot (all files intact on WB disks). Assumption is OS is corrupt on Floppy.
- WB DISKS (Startup-Sequence) in those disks shows a mount of JH0: (vi DJMOUNT) and all directories (Mapped to JH0:xxx) which means the Amga then booted off the Image of AmigaOS (off the PC Hard Drive thru the Bridgeboard/Janus)
- JANUS (is in the Expansion Folder) of the WB DISK
- How the PC side worked is a mystery (Maybe I only used floppies, or maybe there is also a MDOS partition on the PC Hard Drive)
--------------> or it worked like your setup (the C: HARD drive DOS Partition on the PC side just booted)
- I'm not sure how things happened exactly (BOIL doesn't sound familiar at all)

- Biggest OBSTACLE is that (Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive) COMBO are (c: PHYSICAL DISK) not seen by the PC Side (via FDISK or ADISK)
--------------> I can talk to the Controller via DEBUG
--------------> Controller appears to be talking to the HARD DRIVE
--------------> Perhaps the Level Format using (DEBUG) is required for that C: drive to be seen (doesn't seem right, but who knows)

My comment about the 486 was that I wanted to use it to get the WD-HardDrive-Controller working on it to get access to the Hard Drive. (Similar to the setup on the A2000/PCside)

I have some ideas, and thanks for the DOPUS program, that might be handy.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 30, 2017, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


Dandy,

Some great information here.


I agree with your boot sequence (my system was similar).



Fine.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


- Amiga Booted Intially from A WB disk (I still have 2 WB disks from the past) But don't boot (all files intact on WB disks). Assumption is OS is corrupt on Floppy.



OK.
What WB disks do you have?
For example - the complete set of "Workbench" disks of OS version 3.1 consists of 6 DD floppy disks wich are labeled as follows:
1) Install - Version 3.1 (contains the installer to install the complete OS on HD)
2) Workbench - Version 3.1
3) Extras - Version 3.1
4) Locale - Version 3.1
5) Storage - Version 3.1
6) Fonts - Version 3.1

Initially I had to boot my Amiga from the WB floppy disks.

Then I had to prepare the drive(s) with the Boil3 software (from a backup copy of the Boil3 floppy disk - entering drive geometry data & saveing, mounting the drives).

Then I had to install the OS on the HD from the "Workbench" floppy disks.

As I already mentioned, my RLL HD setup had no autoboot option - so I had to boot from a "special bootdisk" floppy.

As I had booted the OS (from the floppies), I could insert a blank DD floppy disk into a floppy drive and format it as bootable disk from the Workbench. This way the my "Bootdisk" was for the same OS version that I used to boot from the floppy disks, e.g. "HD-Bootdisk 3.1".

First I created the necessary directories on this Bootdisk:
c
devs
l
libs
s
system
t
Then I copied all the system files to this "special bootdisk" floppy into the relatred directories required to "boot" the Amiga to such a degree ("minimum system") that it could load the required Boil files, mount the HD(s) and finally move the system was over to DH0: and the startup-sequence on DH0: was executed.

The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
;run system/cli
;add32bit-special resetfest
;setcpu cache burst fastrom config 2 trap 2
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence

When I switched on the Amiga with the Bootdisk in a flppy drive, it started to boot the floppy and after a few seconds the HDs spun up and the complete Amiga operating system booted from HD.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


- WB DISKS (Startup-Sequence) in those disks shows a mount of JH0: (vi DJMOUNT) and all directories (Mapped to JH0:xxx) which means the Amga then booted off the Image of AmigaOS (off the PC Hard Drive thru the Bridgeboard/Janus)
- JANUS (is in the Expansion Folder) of the WB DISK



So far it seems to work analogue to my setup.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


- How the PC side worked is a mystery (Maybe I only used floppies, or maybe there is also a MDOS partition on the PC Hard Drive)



Have you already tried to find documentation/manual of your bridgeboard on the web?

There the "mystery" should be explained...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


--------------> or it worked like your setup (the C: HARD drive DOS Partition on the PC side just booted)
- I'm not sure how things happened exactly (BOIL doesn't sound familiar at all)

- Biggest OBSTACLE is that (Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive) COMBO are (c: PHYSICAL DISK) not seen by the PC Side (via FDISK or ADISK)
--------------> I can talk to the Controller via DEBUG
--------------> Controller appears to be talking to the HARD DRIVE
--------------> Perhaps the Level Format using (DEBUG) is required for that C: drive to be seen (doesn't seem right, but who knows)



As we don`t know how your bridgeboard works all we could do is guessing, which mostly leads to nowhere.

Best idea is to get the manual and see if and how the HD can be used from the PC side.

In my setup, the Vortex ATonce 286 classic software had to be installed on the Amiga side. In its Preferences, you could select the boot method (IIRC, M$-Dos formatted HD partition or HD-file in Amiga format, or floppy disks) and then all you had to do to start the PC (in my case from M$-Dos formatted HD partition) was double-clicking on the ATonce icon on the WB.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


My comment about the 486 was that I wanted to use it to get the WD-HardDrive-Controller working on it to get access to the Hard Drive. (Similar to the setup on the A2000/PCside)



IF there really is a M$-Dos formatted partition on the HD, then you could see it this way.

But as your setup seems to work similar to my setup, I would assume there`s already an Amiga partition on it. And if you succeed to boot that, I`m quite confident you can start the pc from there.

I think the trick is to get the Amiga to boot from the HD (which possibly requires a "special HD boot disk" similar to what I used on my setup.

If you could find the installation files for your bridgeboard, it could be that it offeres the option to create such a bootdisk.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821098


I have some ideas, and thanks for the DOPUS program, that might be handy.



You`re welcome!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 09:53:55 PM
Dandy,

That's really good information AGAIN!! I'll tackle this eventually.

I still don't understand what BOIL is. HW/SW, can you explain a bit more?

BTW, interesting Website (in your footnote). My wife is from German Family and just visited Germany this summer with one of my children. I'm Polish background, so a visit to Europe to show the 3 kids, would be easy to cover both parent's heritage since countries are side by side.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 10:39:43 PM
NEXT TEST [Aread, Awrite to confirm Bridgeboard - DOS/Janus/AmigaOS working ]

What I plan on doing next before anything else, (now that I think I have many things setup and working) is try the Aread and Awrite commands available on the DOS side (they come with the Bridgeboard DOS diskette)

These commands should allow me to copy to/from Amiga/DOS file systems.

They should work, and if they do/don't that may provide evidence on if the setup, drivers, and libraries are in sync and configured properly.

If they DO WORK then more efforts can continue to enhance the setup to go further (Boot Amiga from PC Amiga Partition).

If they DO NO WORK, then more adjustments need to be figured out.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821110
Fine.

Have you already tried to find documentation/manual of your bridgeboard on the web?

There the "mystery" should be explained...

As we don`t know how your bridgeboard works all we could do is guessing, which mostly leads to nowhere.

Best idea is to get the manual and see if and how the HD can be used from the PC side.

Yes, I have the Full Bridgeboard install Guide (SCANNED PAPER ENGLISH COPY), the link is above in post.
THERE A GERMAN Electronic Version for your SPARE TIME READING :) http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html (Look at the Appendix, that is where I am stuck "FDISK/ADISK")
I have done all the steps required, and the one step not working is the FDISK that should pick up the FIXED disk (PC DOS). or ADISK (AMIGA OS).

Nothing more can be done beyond that point in the manual.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 10:51:04 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821110
Fine.
The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
;run system/cli
;add32bit-special resetfest
;setcpu cache burst fastrom config 2 trap 2
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence

When I switched on the Amiga with the Bootdisk in a flppy drive, it started to boot the floppy and after a few seconds the HDs spun up and the complete Amiga operating system booted from HD.
I just got a copy of the Bridgeboard DOS diskette very recently.

My current DOS boot disk is very plain (just a command.com)

But the Bridgeboard DOS diskette does have some more files (not many, but all files are shown in screenshot above). They might do something similar to your boot disk setup.

What I haven't tried it creating a "config.sys" file to include running some additional commands possible (like emm.sys). One in particular is a command "bbsetup.com". A statement like "device=bbsetup.com" can be added and see what happens. (This is not mentioned in the BB manual, but possibly the disk that Came with the BB had this in place).

BUT I DID TRY RUNING THE BBSETUP.COM manually, and it loads the Janus drivers[and hangs system].
(Displays the SAME MESSAGE that shows normally before the DOS boot), so my guess this triggers Code thru the BB BIOS (already/somehow. So may not be needed TWICE).
However (what if the BBSETUP is the DOS version of the JANUS library, and the two (DOS/AMIGA) need to JOIN together).
I will try this too very soon.

FROM WHAT I RESEARCHED, there are more manuals/book for the JANUS specific stuff. I don't have that.
 My guess is those books are for developers, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 11:19:41 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821110
Fine.
The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence
Interesting. Darkage mentioned the increase Buffer DISK config in a previous post.
And the fact that (addbuffers) POINTS to hard drives might be very important.

In DOS the command is "BUFFERS", and also goes into config.sys
http://web.csulb.edu/~murdock/buffers.html

And more INTERESTING. There is also a command called "SYSTEM.com" on that BB DOS package.
I didn't list it in my screenshot, since it didn't fit into by 640K floppy (I added other programs like debug)\
It may be the same a your movesys .

This is starting to look like a Proper DOS DISK needs to be configured and booted from!!!  (Not 100% conclusive but possible)

Dandy, you have provided excellent information with you sample startup.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 30, 2017, 11:56:21 PM
ABOUT Points in two Posts above [ Amiga PC DOS Boot DISK ].

Yes, creation of a new DOS boot diskette is worth a try.  It is need for a new install.

However if the DOS side had a booting PC DOS HARD DRIVE then this would not be needed. (I am 99.99% sure, I didn't have a 5.25" Floppy sitting in my Drive to boot my Amiga).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821129
However if the DOS side had a booting PC DOS HARD DRIVE then this would not be needed. (I am 99.99% sure, I didn't have a 5.25" Floppy sitting in my Drive to boot my Amiga).
THERFORE A CREATION OF A (PROPER) BOOTABLE FLOPPY (if things fit) or a (RAM DRIVE - If Things Fit) might ENABLE to AMIGA to boot off the HARD DISK.
 
 That is why the Aread or Awrite might be also needed.
 
 Time to read beyond the FDISK (STALL point) in the BB Manual.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 06:03:23 AM
TODAY'S TRIP to the (SURPLUS STORE) for a ISA Controller-Hard Drive ** AMAZING FIND**

I almost decide to got ahead a purchase the 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter that Pat suggested.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Assembled-Tested-Working-Lo-tech-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-IDE-for-8-Bit-PCs-/282312406702?hash=item41bb2176ae:g:9HYAAOSwL7VWoBxq

Everything might be easier knowing I have something that works.

However for the price and wait I decided to head to a Electronic Surplus store (With hope to find a Old HD Controller with a Drive) .
The store nearby went out of business to it was a bit of a drive, but worth the trip.

Typical Warehouse Building on the outside.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/501/31779177924_b449d8a25e_o.jpg)

Inside the FRONT OF STORE has Lots of Gizmos and Parts.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/391/31779179764_1e69f40f6f_c.jpg)

Store has Rows of Every Electronic Part Needed.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/365/32469306072_8cbe96f528_b.jpg)

Things are organized in many section and I started searching for Computer Parts.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/532/31779178844_137a68f614_b.jpg)

I finally found the section I was looking for.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/447/31779180444_a8c2e401be_o.jpg)

I dug around for a Long while and found nothing. I gave up after cutting my hand digging deep into the pile.

Came across an interesting Ancient Telephone tester.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/522/31810495383_69c1c73e9e_z.jpg)

THEN ON THE WAY OUT, as if it was meant to be, I saw a book sitting there. That I immediately recognized.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/555/32582411186_c562df45e3_c.jpg)

That book is THE BOOK I BASED my University Graducting Project on. The Universal Prom Programmer which CORE was the (MC68705 CPU).

I spend some time flipping through pages which brought back memories of the whole year of designing and building. IT WAS TOTALLY GRATIFYING.

After that, I'm not so much concerned about the Paper on the Hard Drive.

MY QUEST IS OVER !! The Hard Drive and the School Paper.....(which is the whole reason I started this THREAD).




What cool, is I also got the parts for the Replacement Amiga Battery that I cut out . Plus some handy tweezer, ALL for under $20.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/327/32582222406_30dd6eaaa6_o.jpg)

 
 - SO I'll STILL CONTINUE the REBUILD EFFORTS (Workbench, Dos Side, etc)
- NO LONGER SO CONCERNED about FORMATTING THE HARD DRIVE to get that School Paper. (but will hold off till no other option)

Time to finish the Amiga, one way or another.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on January 31, 2017, 10:35:37 AM
Theres some great surplus stores in Nth America..   Not much here in Australia.

I saw this on the train from work today, a different homebrew card -  ISA to IDE  

https://twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/826243842059927553

btw - Lazy Game Reviews on youtube is one of my favourites.

Card Creators website http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/07/06/xt-ide-rev3
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 31, 2017, 01:44:30 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821123


...
I still don't understand what BOIL is. HW/SW, can you explain a bit more?



Boil (http://www.amigafuture.de/album_page.php?pic_id=20927&sid=2f54475b359b1826f88dbe29cc6721f8) stands for Bootable  OMTI  Interface  Loader and is(was) a commercial harddisk driver software for the Amiga dating back to roughly 1988 (Boil v3 is from 1993).

It made an standard OMTI MFM/RLL controller from PC/XT accessible from an Amiga. You had to enter the disk geomety information there (number of cylinders, sectors, heads and so on).

On the "English Amiga Board" I found some hints for Boil usge  (posting #7) (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=9633). For more information I would have to look for a readme file on my Boil3 floppy disk at home this afternoon...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821123


BTW, interesting Website (in your footnote). My wife is from German Family and just visited Germany this summer with one of my children. I'm Polish background, so a visit to Europe to show the 3 kids, would be easy to cover both parent's heritage since countries are side by side.



Yeah, but unfortunately our original website had been hacked (due to outdated CMS version) last summer  and infected with "malicious scripts" - therefore our provider disabled the access to the old content.

So we had to install the latest version of our Content Management System, which is said to be without this security gap. But as the new version was not fully backward compatible, we had to start from the scatch and still have to migrate the old content and to adapt it to the new CMS version manually. Unfortunately I'm just responsible for translating from German and maintaining the English page - so I don't have access to the old stuff on our webspace. My colleage is the only person with access to the webspace itself, while I just have an admin account in the CMS. So I have to wait for him to make the old stuff accessible for me. I had intended to do a lot of this work during my xmas holidays (5 weeks) - but he didn't migrate a single article and so I couldn't do anything. Bummer!

We're in close collaboration with a railway museum nearby (http://www.ig-bw-dieringhausen.de/) our line and they have a historic train hauled by a little, 102-year-old steam locomotive (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Dampflok_Waldbr%C3%B6l_Wiehl.jpg) called 'Waldbröl' (http://www.kleinbahn-bielstein-waldbroel.de/). Our society has a railcar from the 1950s (http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/vt-1-wb-wiehltalbahn-eingestellt-539078.jpg), currently in general inspection.
This joint venture of the 'Dieringhausen Railway Museum' and our 'Society For The Preservation Of The Wiehltalbahn' is called Bergischer Löwe (http://www.loewendampf.de/).

B.T.W. - my father was born nearby Opole (Silesia) - so one part of my roots is also there where today is Poland...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 02:58:16 PM
Quote from: darkage;821153
I saw this on the train from work today, a different homebrew card - ISA to IDE

https://twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/826243842059927553

Cool, but I won't be building one due to a mistake on my behalf.

Yesterday when I was on Ebay considering to buy the "8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter ", I backed off at the Paypal point to go instead to surplus store.

I didn't realize I clicked on BUY IT NOW, and was committed to paying, till this morning.

So as a honest Ebay customer, I just completed the transition and completed the payment.

The 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter is on it's way.

I have to be careful in the future.

HOWEVER the good news is I did more reading, many things:

- I learned about how there are differences between WB1.2 and WB1.3 and how MOUNTLISTS work (WB1.2 was central MOUNT LIST DRIVEN, while WB1.3 has the MOUNTS in DEVS/DOSDrivers)
- I also researched and found out what the STORAGE FLOPPY has for WB 1.3 (HDToolbox) which is more for and AMIGA Side HARD Drive
- These MOUNTLIST entries for AMIGA side take care of HD Characteristic in detail, but the a BRIDGEBOARD connected (PC Drive) the mount is a SIMPLE "Mount JH0:" via JANUS Library

Thus I will go thru all my original WB floppies, but am pretty sure that the FDISK and ADISK on the PC side should have taken care of the C: drive (DOS/ADOS) partitions whichever exist.

In other words, the 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter will be quite handy to figure things out.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 04:59:48 PM
Since I'm stuck with the ISA/IDE adapter, I'm thinking about getting a IDE/SD card like below.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not that expensive, but it will get me all setup on the Amiga PC side.
 
 There are Compact Flash and SD versions.    I have a few old CF cards 4,32,256MB.  For SD I have larger sizes.
 
 Is there an possible PROBLEM using the Larger SD version for the A2000?  (Like with FDISK not like a 1GB SD)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 31, 2017, 05:44:10 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821126


Yes, I have the Full Bridgeboard install Guide (SCANNED PAPER ENGLISH COPY), the link is above in post.



Still have to look for it...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821126


THERE A GERMAN Electronic Version for your SPARE TIME READING :) http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html



Ahh - very interesting. Have you seen this:

Quote


...
Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 standard PC floppy disk drives:

5.25" Drives: 360KB (Comes standard with 360KB drive)
3.5" Drives: 720KB (Uses Amiga external floppies drives on the external floppy connector)
...



No harddrive mentioned...makes me think...if there is an M$-Dos partition on the harddrive at all...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821126


(Look at the Appendix, that is where I am stuck "FDISK/ADISK")



At the "GERMAN Electronic Version" link is no "Appendix" - what do you mean with that?

Quote from: wbrejnia;821126


I have done all the steps required, and the one step not working is the FDISK that should pick up the FIXED disk (PC DOS). or ADISK (AMIGA OS).



Hum - should the PC-XT on the bridgeboard really support no harddrives on the M$-Dos side I`m not surprised that `fdisk` does not work...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821126


Nothing more can be done beyond that point in the manual.



Still have to find this manual and the `Appendix`...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 31, 2017, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821182
Since I'm stuck with the ISA/IDE adapter, I'm thinking about getting a IDE/SD card like below.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Not that expensive, but it will get me all setup on the Amiga PC side.
 
 There are Compact Flash and SD versions.    I have a few old CF cards 4,32,256MB.  For SD I have larger sizes.
 
 Is there an possible PROBLEM using the Larger SD version for the A2000?  (Like with FDISK not like a 1GB SD)

There is a problem with any media drives you connect via ISA - you only have 8 bit ISA, and usually that is bottlenecked by the way the two sides talk to each other.

Max boot partition recommended is what, 2 GB on 1.3? Probably same on 1.2. You can go for 4gb but it's not recommended.

It doesn't really matter if you got spare IDE drives, they'll still be throttled slow. Getting a card reader as well doesn't really get you much. Not with ISA. See how an IDE hard drive does, you won't be impressed.

As for Poles, went to school with a few characters called Durcaz, Prsbilski, Kovacs, Burkovich, etc. One of the Polish diplomats sent their kid there too. That was back when the Iron Curtain was still raised. :)

Quote from: Dandy;821160
Boil (http://www.amigafuture.de/album_page.php?pic_id=20927&sid=2f54475b359b1826f88dbe29cc6721f8) stands for Bootable  OMTI  Interface  Loader and is(was) a commercial harddisk driver software for the Amiga dating back to roughly 1988 (Boil v3 is from 1993).

It made an standard OMTI MFM/RLL controller from PC/XT accessible from  an Amiga. You had to enter the disk geomety information there (number of  cylinders, sectors, heads and so on).

On the "English Amiga Board" I found some hints for Boil usge  (posting #7) (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=9633). For more information I would have to look for a readme file on my Boil3 floppy disk at home this afternoon...

Yes, this makes sense. Idea was you could access generic PC peripherals like hard disk standards. I NEVER reviewed a Bridgeboard that way, I think. I seem to remember always having an Amiga side Zorro connected hard drive partition setup with a DOS filesystem. I Don't seem to remember using a PC hard disk as such, deal was you could go either route, and I rarely had cause to enter a PC magazine office to ask if I could blag one. (Ahem). They probably had, happy to lend, I just didn't need to ask.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on January 31, 2017, 07:00:26 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821186


...
No harddrive mentioned...makes me think...if there is an M$-Dos partition on the harddrive at all...
...



The same at http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/cgi-bin/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=328:
"This card may have been supplied with a 360K 5.25" floppy drive however the card can also use a real external Amiga floppy drive, to read 720K DOS disks."

From the schematics at your "GERMAN Electronic Version" link I`m beginning to understand:
- The Amiga 2000 has Zorro-II slots and ISA-slots (pre-PCI age) on the motherboard (partially in line).
- The card plugs into both a Zorro slot and an ISA slot and so allows you to use real 8bit ISA cards in the ISA slots of your A2000, which are disabled by default and can only be activated and `linked` to the Amiga`s Zorro bus by a "bridgeboard" (hence the name). This allows you to use a MFM ISA controller card with MFM harddrive in your Amiga.
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Therefore I do not believe there is any M$-Dos related stuff on your drive - just Amiga stuff, I`d say...

Sorry for the bad news...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 07:04:39 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821186
Still have to find this manual and the `Appendix`...
These are the two Bridgeboard Guides on the NET (thanks to Darkage in post above)
-
The PDF Scan of the Original Paper Bridgeboard Manuals(One German and One English - with the Appedix and FDISK)
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt (On this site you can also get the BB disks images)


Here is the AmigaOS Manual (where I read about the MOUNTLISTS and where they are placed, and Read at Boot time.)
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories

I am pretty sure PC Side supports Hard disks.

But here is what I was looking at that caught my attention. I think this a MountList on the AMIGA side (ONLY), for a HDD on Amiga Side, that can be accessed from PC Side.

(Example MOUNTLIST)
Quote from: exampleMountlist
/* vi:ts=8
*
* Change LowCyl, HighCyl, Surfaces, BlocksPerTrack and Unit
* to suit your hard drive (run DISKINFO DHx: to see the details
* for a given partition)
*/
PCD: FileSystem = l: pcdisk-handler
Device = scsi.device
Unit = ???
Flags = 0
LowCyl = ??? ; HighCyl = ???
Surfaces = ???
BlocksPerTrack = ???
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 0
BootPri = 0
Stacksize = 4096
Priority = -5
GlobVec = -1
Reserved = 2
Mount = 1
#
/*
* See docs for more info about this entry
*/
IBM: Device = scsi.device
Unit = ???
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 32
Reserved = 0
Interleave = 0
LowCyl = ???; HighCyl = ???
FileSystem = L:MSDOSFileSystem
Stacksize = 4000
Priority = 5
GlobVec = -1
DosType = 0x4D534400
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 1

All that Drive Parameter information could be used by the Amiga-side.
For the PC side, the FDISK/DOS holds that somehow.

( I still have to go thru ALL my Workbench disk and look for /DEV/.. Files and any MOUNTLIST files for clues)
Haven't had time.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821198
The same at http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/cgi-bin/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=328:
"This card may have been supplied with a 360K 5.25" floppy drive however the card can also use a real external Amiga floppy drive, to read 720K DOS disks."

From the schematics at your "GERMAN Electronic Version" link I`m beginning to understand:
- The Amiga 2000 has Zorro-II slots and ISA-slots (pre-PCI age) on the motherboard (partially in line).
- The card plugs into both a Zorro slot and an ISA slot and so allows you to use real 8bit ISA cards in the ISA slots of your A2000, which are disabled by default and can only be activated and `linked` to the Amiga`s Zorro bus by a "bridgeboard" (hence the name). This allows you to use a MFM ISA controller card with MFM harddrive in your Amiga.
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Therefore I do not believe there is any M$-Dos related stuff on your drive - just Amiga stuff, I`d say...

Sorry for the bad news...
You understand this much better than me.
 I think you might be right.  I probably only ran FLOPPIES on PC dos side for school MATLAB programs.  The rest was the Amiga Workbench of HDD.
 
 That is good news since I can stop looking for a DOS solution and focus on the Amiga side.  That means I have a Amiga Workbench with lots of goodies installed.  That is better (more fun stuff, maybe games too :) !!
 
 And when my ISA card arrive, I can build an Amiga with a Hard Drive, even if my MFM Card/Drive is broken.  If not broken, I can sell it.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 31, 2017, 07:30:27 PM
Quote from: Dandy;821198
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Listen, the red parts are not true. Any XT could read and write to any ISA PC hard drive. It was delivered as a floppy only system, but it was upgradable. There may be a DOS partition on that drive, but whether it is BOOTABLE without a floppy, or Janus running correctly with right settings, or maybe both, is the issue. The original IBM PC is a different matter, XT allowed expansion beyond floppy. :)

All XTs could USE hard disks. Bridgeboards permit Amiga applications and operating system to access PC ISA peripherals, true.

There may not be any PC parititions, there may only be Amiga formatted partitions, BUT if Wally was using it as a PC as part of a university course, it's a certainty he used a DOS partiton for the DOS based work he was doing.

I say a CERTAINTY. Whether or not it's readable by the XT or any other system now is a different matter. :) I'm optimistic, I think it's still there.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 07:33:26 PM
Dandy,

You may be right about the XT and no Hard Drive.

And yes the Bridgeboard only has a Floppy Drive Connector.

But when I plug in my WD Controller Card into the ISA Slot, that enabled a Hard drive on the PC side. I have proved I can access my Hard Drive BIOS with the MS DOS "DEBUG"

And below the Bridgeboard specs show this (SHARED between the 2088 and 2286 Bridgeboards)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/726/32633922325_4656caba07_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 31, 2017, 07:42:25 PM
What I think you got it basically the same as the A1000 sidecar, but with ISA abilty tacked on. That let you use either type of hard drive, from either side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Sidecar

The IBM XT WAS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE FIRST 2 YEARS WITHOUT A HARD DRIVE PREFITTED.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer_XT

It's stone age tech, but it does all talk to each other, IF you can set it up right. Sidecar let you have a PC, hard disk, connected to an  Amiga with it's own floppy drive. Check the photograph in first link, understand the drives. The Zorro 2 cards were much nicer, but same basic principles.

So yes, maybe you just did boot to Workench on the hard drive... but on 1.2, you could never autoboot from that or any other hard drive. You would have to start from floppy to boot Amiga, start Janus, Start PC. From then on, you could use floppy or hard drive on either system.

Why would you not have a PC boot partition too? You could work quicker that way, but you would still have to start from Floppy, from the Amiga, to run Janus, boot the XT DOS from it's own parition.

Maybe you never bothered and just used XT environment to boot from floppies all the time... doesn't sound right. To me, anyway.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on January 31, 2017, 07:48:20 PM
Thanks Pat....We are all on the same page.

THE BRIDGEBOARD Supports HD with a Controller Card in ISA SLOT, just like the XT did.

I just got an email that my 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter just got shipped.

Can't wait for it to arrive.

Not much to do till then (except read and go thru my WB disks for clues. Make some fresh copies of everything for the future NEW install).

Will that IDE/CF card work? I'll order one. Cheap for the value it will bring.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 01, 2017, 06:43:49 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821199


These are the two Bridgeboard Guides on the NET (thanks to Darkage in post above)
-
The PDF Scan of the Original Paper Bridgeboard Manuals(One German and One English - with the Appedix and FDISK)
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt (On this site you can also get the BB disks images)


Here is the AmigaOS Manual (where I read about the MOUNTLISTS and where they are placed, and Read at Boot time.)
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories



Thanks for the link! That was what I was looking for...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821199


I am pretty sure PC Side supports Hard disks.



After having had a Brief look at the table of content I have to agree - there's a chapter about fitting a harddisk: "D.   Einbau einer Harddisk   D-1".

So forget my guessing about the A2088XT not being able to use harddisks.
I was just confused because in the docs I had seen so far floppy drives were mentioned, but no harddrives. In a "tech spec" I would have expected the mentioning of the possibility of using harddrives with it...

Now I can start to read the manual in detail...
I'll come back later...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 08:01:15 AM
*******************************************************************************
** THINGS ARE NOT GOING WELL with my FIRST TRIAL (Jlink Virutual Drive : Appendix C (BB Manual). **
*****************************************************************************************

1) I tried the section in the BB manual (To create a VIRTUAL DRIVE) on the AMIGA FILE SYSTEM

I Properly run "ADISK" on the Amiga side.

I properly added DEVICE= JDISK.SYS into the MDOS Boot DISK CONFIG.SYS file.

It does load, since I even did a TYPO (Jbad.sys) and the Boot complains that file doesn't exist.

If I don't include that entry into CONFIG.SYS and run Jlink.exe (I get an error message saying (JDISK.SYS not installed: )

But then running JLINK hang on any switch (ie JLINK e: RAM:vd /C:160). Even tried JLINK by itself which should just list any VIRTUAL DRIVES. (160KB in minimal size, if you use 4 KB it complains)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the RAM drive might not have enough space so I tried a trick to test if communication between PC and AMIGA is happening

1) I used notepad to CREATE a FILE on DF0: call "VM" full of text
2) I ran the command ( JLINK DF0:VM )
3A) According to the manual if the "VM" file exists on df0: then it should prompt you with (a question if you want to continue)
3B) But no PROMPT
3C) And no activity on DRIVE LED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I even tried with MSDOS3.3 and MSDOS6.2 to be safe it's not my DOS version.

This should work since this is Simple Bridgeboard Functionality.

Dandy, If you have a Sidecar then can you try this an see if it works for you?

Pat, anyone, if your A2000 have a bridgeboard, can you try this?

Can this be tested on AmigaForever? (not the same but just to test)

** I even double reboot the systems when re-trying to make sure, and that takes a lot time **

I have no idea why this doesn't work, or what I could do to fix.

Next I'm going to try doing the (AREAD & AWRITE) as per the BB Manual (My hopes are low :( )

And if that doesn't work, my hopes for anything to work DROP :( :( (Till I figure out a root cause)

BURNING IN THE BACK OF MY MIND (is I should put back the Original Kickstart 1.2 ROM to match This Workbench 1.2, and my original HW setup.  MAYBE the BB I have has a BIOS that needs that Kickstart)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 01, 2017, 10:07:07 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821206


I just got an email that my 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter just got shipped.

.

wow you went for it..  I wished I had a old XT to modernise for fun, but I sadly threw them out a long time ago.

wish you luck.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 01, 2017, 10:50:52 AM
One of my former Amiga friends, Giuseppe, has at parents home one working A2000 with Janus 386 board and both he owns a non functioning bridgeboard 486sx, and both cards are with complete disks and manuals in italian.
In that remote age I helped him replacing standard 5,25" Floppy with 3,5" frame model on PC side and he put ISA IDE board into PC side, so he had no any of your problems with HDDisks and floppies, but sure I will ask him for a image of the floppies.

Dunno when he could find some spare time to retrieve all the material back tough, so you must be patient.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 01, 2017, 10:56:28 AM
@Wbrejnia

In your first post, when you originated the thread, you said HD woke up with loud click-click sound...

This make me think one of drive heads has gone.

Hard disk should had woke with noisy gentle whirl sound... Noisy, but sure gentle, not clicky...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;821264
@Wbrejnia

In your first post, when you originated the thread, you said HD woke up with loud click-click sound...

This make me think one of drive heads has gone.

Hard disk should had woke with noisy gentle whirl sound... Noisy, but sure gentle, not clicky...
I may have described the sound SOUND, and behavior wrong. It's not a CLICK, it's more like a Squeak. Loud because I'm comparing to today's Hard Drives.

The drive on power up does make the Gentle Whirl sound, and then the classic "squeak-squeak" sound of the drive head moving and parking.

I know that sound from years ago. Then things would go quiet as drive would spin-Huum quietly. Exactly the same now.

When the system was fully working years ago the "squeak-squeak" would continue as the drive did it's reading and writing. Many squeak-squeaks.
The way to imagine it is every time the HD LED would blink there would be a squeak.
The head moving Sound is very characteristic of that Octagon Drive. (LED BLINK=Squeak) (No blink, no squeak)

Right now everything is the same, except no further drive-reading-squeaks since there is no communication to the drive.

If I figure out how to get that drive recognized, that Squeak-SQueak-Squeak sound will be Music-to-My-Ears.

The DEBUG format would be one way to test out and hear the drive work again, but I'm not formatting the drive till I totally give up.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;821262
One of my former Amiga friends, Giuseppe, has at parents home one working A2000 with Janus 386 board and both he owns a non functioning bridgeboard 486sx, and both cards are with complete disks and manuals in italian.
In that remote age I helped him replacing standard 5,25" Floppy with 3,5" frame model on PC side and he put ISA IDE board into PC side, so he had no any of your problems with HDDisks and floppies, but sure I will ask him for a image of the floppies.

Dunno when he could find some spare time to retrieve all the material back tough, so you must be patient.

Last night I decided to go through and organized my disk.
 
 I found all my Workbench 1.3 disks (All of them including INSTALL, FONTS, EXTRAS, and STORAGE).   On there I found many interesting tools, including HTtools.  I ran the HardDrive tools and it's all stuff for an Amiga Side Hard Drive.
 
 However if you friend has a copy of the DOS disk that came with the BB, that would be interesting to see the directory listing.   Especially the contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT if the exists.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: darkage;821257
wow you went for it.. I wished I had a old XT to modernise for fun, but I sadly threw them out a long time ago.

wish you luck.
Yes I did (BY mistake, hitting [BUY IT NOW] to see shipping cost). Since I'm stuck with the unit, Yesterday I also ordered a IDE-USB flash drive from a local seller in Nearby, in Canada.

If this project doesn't work out, (AMIGA-to-PC Setup). I'll hope to at least get the 8088 PC side working standalone (booting on it own) without floppy, etc.
 
 I'll be PIMPING my Amiga PC :)  (Just like the YouTube Video you posted above)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821275
Last night I decided to go through and organized my disk.

I found all my Workbench 1.3 disks (All of them including INSTALL, FONTS, EXTRAS, and STORAGE). On there I found many interesting tools, including HTtools. I ran the HardDrive tools and it's all stuff for an Amiga Side Hard Drive.

However if you friend has a copy of the DOS disk that came with the BB, that would be interesting to see the directory listing. Especially the contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT if the exists.

So I'm getting concerned. This Old Magenetic media is aging. The 5.25" DOS diskettes' keep failing and I have to reformat them to work.

I am in the process of making duplicate copies of the many important disks I have.

But even then, many of my BLANK disks that I want to format for duplicate copies are aged, and about 1-5 are usable. I have plenty of not needed disks so keep try others, but loosing one disk that I can't find on WEB would be an issue.

To be safe I noticed I have magnetic screwdrivers and other Magentic stuff in my workarea. Have put everything away at a distance. Staying away from Power Supplies and CRT Monitors.

Rather then getting a box of new (3.5") floppies I'm consider a GOTEK USB drive (as suggestest in a post above)
Selling here in Canada (nearby seller) http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Amiga-USB-Floppy-Disk-Emulator-GOTEK-beige-w-8GB-USB-key-/182422877030?hash=item2a79403366:g:e1gAAOSwd2xXP8Oo

Are these easy to setup. It appears this one is Flash burned and ready to use on the A2000 (less work then flashing myself).

Do they just replace my current floppy (ribbon cable to A2000 Motherboard, even though Internal 3.5" has a crip type connector).

I would still have my External A1010 drive for real floppies, so would be a nice flexible working setup.

I assume I could boot ADF games disk and more, plus have access to all ADF copies of Workbench, Install, etc disks. (Considering I don't really have any choice for a Amiga Side Internal HD, without getting a Controller card and SCSI drive)

Would this setup allow me to boot off of External or Gotek and have access to a USB based library of disks? (Better than my Amiga Explorer PC and the slow transfers)


Any comments?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 01, 2017, 08:59:54 PM
@wbrejnia

Please read the complete posting - solution comes near the bottom...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

** THINGS ARE NOT GOING WELL with my FIRST TRIAL (Jlink Virutual Drive : Appendix C (BB Manual). **
************************************************** ***************************************

1) I tried the section in the BB manual (To create a VIRTUAL DRIVE) on the AMIGA FILE SYSTEM

I Properly run "ADISK" on the Amiga side.



Errmmm - you're confusing me.
"ADISK" s not mentioned in the Appendix C of the BB manual - just "JLink".

As far as I can see, "ADISK" is mentioned for first time in "APPENDIX E: INSTALLING AND USING A HARD DISK ON THE PC SIDE" at the bottom off page 71.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

I properly added DEVICE= JDISK.SYS into the MDOS Boot DISK CONFIG.SYS file.
It does load, since I even did a TYPO (Jbad.sys) and the Boot complains that file doesn't exist.

If I don't include that entry into CONFIG.SYS and run Jlink.exe (I get an error message saying (JDISK.SYS
not installed:)



Did you start "PCDisk" before running "Jlink.exe"?
As Appendix C on page 61 of the BB manual says:
"PCDisk must be running in order for the JLink program to work."

To start "PCDisk", you have to insert the "PC System Disk" into a 5.25 inch disk drive and
the "PC Workbench" diskette (apparently this is the one 3.5 inch floppy disk containing the
Bridgeboard "PClnstall" program, delivered with the BB) into the Amiga's 3.5 inch internal disk drive
before running the "JLink" program, according to Appendix C on page 61 of the BB manual. Open the PC
drawer on the Workbench, and double-click on the "PCDisk" icon.

At this point, page 7 of the English manual might be interesting:
2. INSTALLING THE BRIDGEBOARD HARDWARE  (page 7)

MAKE SURE you received the following items in the Bridge board box:
...
· One 3.5 inch floppy disk containing the Bridgeboard "PClnstall" program*
  . * NOTE: In some countries you may receive a "special PC Workbench disk" in place
  . of (or in addition to) the Install disk listed here. In this case you will not need to go through the
  . process of installing the PC software on a copy of your Workbench disk, as described in Chapter 3.    
  . However, you will find Chapter 3 useful if you want to create a personalized "PC Workbench" disk for
  . some special use.
· Three 5.25 inch floppy disks containing MS-DOS System Software, GWBASIC and other special software
  for use with the Bridgeboard
...


Do you have this "special PC Workbench disk"? (important to know)
(The term "PC Workbench disk" is misleading and confuses me each time, as there exists nothing like a
"PC Workbench". In our daily use of the language we normally refer to a "PC" (x86 IBM compatible
computer) when we say "M$-Dos" or "Windows" today, while the term "Workbench" is linked to Amiga
computers.
To be clear, we should either say "PC disk", or "Amiga disk"...)

It will also be important to know which AmigaOS version (Workbench version) is used on the 3.5" floppy
disk from the Bridge board box, as it must correlate with the Kickstart version you're using.

On my system I always made a new boot disk for my HD each time I upgraded to a new Kickstart & Workbench
version. For this I booted the Amiga with the new WB, formatted an empty DD floppy disk as bootable and
copied over all the stuff from the OLD boot disk for my HD.
And I named the disks properly, e.g. "HD bootdisk 3.1" for use with Kickstart & OS (Workbench) version
3.1.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

But then running JLINK hang on any switch (ie JLINK e: RAM:vd /C:160). Even tried JLINK by itself which
should just list any VIRTUAL DRIVES. (160KB in minimal size, if you use 4 KB it complains)



Make sure that you start "PCDisk" before trying to run "Jlink.exe"! (see above)

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

I thought the RAM drive might not have enough space so I tried a trick to test if communication between
PC and AMIGA is happening



I saw the manual also has a chapter about RAM expansion...
But I highly doubt you can find a 128 kB RAM expansion board for ISA slots nowadays...
(keep in mind your A2088XT cannot use more than 640 kB RAM and has 512 kB by standard, IIRC)

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

1) I used notepad to CREATE a FILE on DF0: call "VM" full of text



OK...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

2) I ran the command ( JLINK DF0:VM )



Confusion again.
As you said a few lines up: "But then running JLINK hang on any switch" - did it work this time?
If not, possible reasons could be either that JLINK did not work (possibly "PCDisk" not started before?), or linking the file to a drive letter did not work.

The syntax of this command is as follows:

JLINK n: filename /sw

where
- "n" is the virtual drive to use (letters A and B are reserved for physical floppy drives, C   for physical harddrive. So chose D or beyond),
- "filename" is a standard Amiga path specifying a file (e.g. DH0:s/user-startup), and
- "sw" is one of the following switches:
  /n -all messages suppressed except errors
  /c:n -create that volume on Amiga side. Here, "n" is the size in kilobytes
  /u - unlink that volume
  /r -link read only (all write access will fail)

Note: If you do not specify a switch, "JLINK" will attempt to link to an existing file.
If the file does not exist, the link will be unsuccessful.
If you use /n with /c, existing volumes are deleted without any warnings.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

3A) According to the manual if the "VM" file exists on df0: then it should prompt you with (a question
if you want to continue)



Note: If you do not specify a switch, "JLINK" will attempt to link to an existing file. If the file does
not exist, the link will be unsuccessful.

Ah - I think now I understand what the issue is.
You created the "VM"-file with NotePad. But this is just a text file for the computer - not a "virtual drive"-file!
A real "virtual drive"-file is generated with the "JLINK n: filename /sw"-command!
You used "JLINK DF0:VM" - but it should have been e.g. "JLINK D: VM /c:100", where the "100" specifies the size of the "virtual drive"-file to 100 kB. German manual says that the default value for "n" is 32768 (32 mB). Keep in mind that the floppy disk in df0: has a maximum capacity of 880 kB on the Amiga side - so I doubt that higher values than 720 kB (max. size of PC DD floppy disks) make sense in this experiment...

The Germn manual furthermore says that you MUST close the used virtual file (with
"JLINK D: VM /u") before switching off the computer!

The German manual also comes up with a nice idea:
Creating the virtual file in the Amigas RAM: disk with e.g. "JLINK D: RAM:PC_DRIVE_D /c:1024" (provided your Amiga has enough RAM, e.g. more than 1.5 mB)!

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

3B) But no PROMPT
3C) And no activity on DRIVE LED



In the face of the above explained things I`m not surprised...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

...
Dandy, If you have a Sidecar then can you try this an see if it works for you?
...



Nope.
Don`t have a "siecar" - I just had an 80286 HW add-on that plugged into the CPU socket of the A500.
B.T.W. - as far as I remember, the "Sidecar" originally was an external expansion for the Amiga 1000.

Today I use my towered A4000 with CyberstormPPC accelerator, Mediator PCI busboard with Voodoo4 graphics card, Terratec soundcard and 100 mBit network interface card. It has broadband access and is networked with a WIntel box (core i5 quadcore).
To access the PC from the Amiga I use a registered copy of Darren Eveland`s little program "RDesktop".  
To access the Amiga from the PC, you can either use "Samba", or just "smbfs" (SaMBa File System ) - I use the latter.
Works like a charm - no slow bridgeboard required...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

...
I have no idea why this doesn't work, or what I could do to fix.
...



But I had - see above...
;-)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 01, 2017, 09:01:42 PM
I just stumbled upon this thread...
I only read it briefly, because it's a lot of posts.

As far as I understand you want to read an MFM harddisk connected to a bridgeboard in an Amiga 2000. I also have this setup and an A1000 with A1060 too. Both working! The A2000 with a hardfile (IIRC) and the Sidecar with a Filecard (Controller with MFM HDD).
In the A2000 I even have got an ISA NIC and I can access the internet on the Amiga side using the Etherbridge software.

I have been fiddling a very long time to get the A1000/1060 setup working. And it was just because of the floppy drive AND the HDD were bad. As soon as I got replacements it started working nice. I only had to disable a lot of bad blocks on the replacement drive. I used a software tool to know which blocks. You do not need any drivers.

I also tried one of those ISA/XT/IDE cards you mention. Unfortunately it did not work in the A1060. It worked in a PC.

So, if you still have any questions on how to setup, I maybe helpful. There is also an expert on bridgeboards on the German a1k.org. We could contact him if needed as I understand German.

A video to see the A1000/A1060 booting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PamfEkIbQU


Regards,
Leo
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 01, 2017, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821286


Rather then getting a box of new (3.5") floppies I'm consider a GOTEK USB drive (as suggestest in a post above)


Strongly would recommend.  Its a whole new world with a emulated drive.   Just put ADF images on te usb stick, whack it into the Go Tek.  Boot the Go Tek with the standard ADF and select which slot number for images to occupy.   Then its as easy as selecting a number on the drive for the appropriate floppy image.

No more bad floppies and can have a whole floppy collection on usb.  :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 10:08:17 PM
Dandy,

Thank for your detailed analysis.

My mistake for a few very bad typos. I have to walk to one computer and back, and my typing is always bad.

Based on what you pointed out, I actually did everything correct.

I Ran PCDISK, Janus is in Expansion drawer on Amiga Side, JANUS libraries are loaded by Bridgeboard,, etc (Everything like the Manual says)

It is best that I show two important screenshots. Maybe even a YouTube Video next time.

1) First screenshot is a test I did to show DOS is loading JDISK.SYS

2) 2nd Screenshot shows that JLINK hangs
----> but it should show a prompt that the DF0:VM file is already there. Doesn't matter what kind of file. The prompt logic it to prevent you from overwriting a important file.

Jlink hangs no matter what command or /switch I try.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/458/32501351012_20683170fe_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 10:17:10 PM
Quote from: leofoe;821290
I just stumbled upon this thread...
I only read it briefly, because it's a lot of posts.

As far as I understand you want to read an MFM harddisk connected to a bridgeboard in an Amiga 2000. I also have this setup and an A1000 with A1060 too. Both working! The A2000 with a hardfile (IIRC) and the Sidecar with a Filecard (Controller with MFM HDD).
In the A2000 I even have got an ISA NIC and I can access the internet on the Amiga side using the Etherbridge software.

I have been fiddling a very long time to get the A1000/1060 setup working. And it was just because of the floppy drive AND the HDD were bad. As soon as I got replacements it started working nice. I only had to disable a lot of bad blocks on the replacement drive. I used a software tool to know which blocks. You do not need any drivers.

I also tried one of those ISA/XT/IDE cards you mention. Unfortunately it did not work in the A1060. It worked in a PC.

So, if you still have any questions on how to setup, I maybe helpful. There is also an expert on bridgeboards on the German a1k.org. We could contact him if needed as I understand German.

A video to see the A1000/A1060 booting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PamfEkIbQU


Regards,
Leo

Leo,
Thanks for the video. Wish the video quality was better and more time spent on screen. But nice to see.

As far as your point on the "ISA/XT/IDE", it is for my Bridgeboard PC side.

If you read more above, you will understand that my Hard Drive is on PC side on a Controller in ISA slot. My goal is to see that PAIR from Amiga Side thru Bridgeboard.

I can communicate with Controller using Dos Debug (Controller BIOS Format Program).

Controller appears to be talking to DISK (since if I disconnect disk, BIOS program doesn't continue).

The whole purpose of getting the "IS/XT/IDE" card to replace my Controller/HD and see if I can get things working.

BUT THE BIGGEST MYSTERY for me is "IF CONTROLLER AND DISK are OK", and no DOS driver needed, why does DOS "Fdisk" not pick up C: drive (Formatted or not, corrupt data/sectors or NOT)?

The "IS/XT/IDE" card will solve that mystery.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 01, 2017, 10:46:38 PM
If you have a replacement MFM disk you can find out if the disk itself is the problem.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 01, 2017, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: leofoe;821296
If you have a replacement MFM disk you can find out if the disk itself is the problem.

Getting a new MFM drive working isn't my goal. ( My goal is to possibly read the contents of my MFM disk if the Drive Contents are still good )

I have avoided running the LOW LEVEL FORMAT since I don't know it's characteristics (I have looked and found some info, but don't even know which model ALOK Octagan MFM disk I have I have since not Labelled anywhere).

If I did know characteristics I could LOW LEVEL FORMAT since as this link says it is NOT A "Regular DOS type FORMAT", it would only lay down the tracks and sectors (which I don't know what they are structure wise). Laying down incorrect tracks/sectors would destroy access to contents.
https://kb.iu.edu/d/aaoa

Another solution I found is a MFM reader like shown here https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
But that is way too much work. Not sure it will work for $ spent. Still probably need DRIVE characteristics , and at the end I have nothing of value.

So goal is to figure out and get this A2000 Setup working, with some practice on the (ISA/XT/IDE Adapter)  with an (IDE Drive), or a (IDE Flash Drive), like a replacement MFM Disk.

At the end, I could use the improved AMIGA PC setup and throw out OLD MFM Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 02, 2017, 12:15:35 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821298

I have avoided running the LOW LEVEL FORMAT since I don't know it's characteristics (I have looked and found some info, but don't even know which model ALOK Octagan MFM disk I have I have since not Labelled anywhere).


http://redhill.net.au/d/9.php

I dont think there would be too many RLL/MFM Alok Octagan models.   If its written anyware the number of heads, cylinders, sectors then you would be able to work out the capacity and narrow down the models. ?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: ferrellsl on February 02, 2017, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821298
Getting a new MFM drive working isn't my goal. ( My goal is to possibly read the contents of my MFM disk if the Drive Contents are still good )

I have avoided running the LOW LEVEL FORMAT since I don't know it's characteristics (I have looked and found some info, but don't even know which model ALOK Octagan MFM disk I have I have since not Labelled anywhere).

If I did know characteristics I could LOW LEVEL FORMAT since as this link says it is NOT A "Regular DOS type FORMAT", it would only lay down the tracks and sectors (which I don't know what they are structure wise). Laying down incorrect tracks/sectors would destroy access to contents.
https://kb.iu.edu/d/aaoa

Another solution I found is a MFM reader like shown here https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
But that is way too much work. Not sure it will work for $ spent. Still probably need DRIVE characteristics , and at the end I have nothing of value.

So goal is to figure out and get this A2000 Setup working, with some practice on the (ISA/XT/IDE Adapter)  with an (IDE Drive), or a (IDE Flash Drive), like a replacement MFM Disk.

At the end, I could use the improved AMIGA PC setup and throw out OLD MFM Drive.



You've seriously misunderstood leofoe's post.  He's trying to give you a clue that your current drive may be dead, and if so, you won't be recovering anything from it.  And to determine if it's really dead, he's suggesting that you install a known good MFM drive to rule out problems elsewhere such as your controller card or a software issue.  Basic troubleshooting.....
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;821301
You've seriously misunderstood leofoe's post. He's trying to give you a clue that your current drive may be dead, and if so, you won't be recovering anything from it. And to determine if it's really dead, he's suggesting that you install a known good MFM drive to rule out problems elsewhere such as your controller card or a software issue. Basic troubleshooting.....
I clearly understood LEOFOE'S post.

I am VERY SURE my MFM Controller works.

I have no idea if my MFM drive is good but Controller talks to it and it responds.

Yes, a new (Validated working MFM) drive would be a good way to prove controller is working, and try all the step for a new MFM drive Partion, Format, etc

I may consider that, but what I see on Ebay is too expensive, non proof the MFM Drive is working or any better than mine.
 Another DRIVE type would not give me any information on my Drive Characteristics (Key Unknown) to LOW-LEVEL Reformat this drive (to get to my data).
 
 I am going to try and find the ALOK Octagon Model I have an LOW LEVEL FORMAT IT.   THERE Must be some way to figure out the model.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 01:21:18 AM
Quote from: darkage;821300
http://redhill.net.au/d/9.php

I dont think there would be too many RLL/MFM Alok Octagan models. If its written anyware the number of heads, cylinders, sectors then you would be able to work out the capacity and narrow down the models. ?

Thanks Darkage, any info on KALOK Octacon Drive helps.

This is the best I found. http://www.mfarris.com/hard/Kalok.html (Even has details on one model, would be luck if mine!! ).

KALOK Made only 4 MFM Models (KL320,KL330,KL340,KL360) before they went out of Business, according to all my research.

Question is which is mine and what are the parameters [heads, cylinders, sectors] so I can Safely do a Low Level Format.
 
 (I assume I can't try all 4 parameters and not loose data).

This Photo is extra Large in case someone see's a clue for Model Type. ( Nothing written on sides)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/494/32277391730_0c02d3225a_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: ferrellsl on February 02, 2017, 01:35:00 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821305
so I can Safely do a Low Level Format.
 
 (I assume I can't try all 4 parameters and not loose data).


A low-level format will erase everything on the drive.  Incorrect parameters won't hurt anything.  In most cases using the wrong parameters will just cause the formattting application to fail or throw an error message.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 02:16:45 AM
OH MY GOD!! The HARD DRIVE is Alive!

To get that Last Good Closeup Photo.

I took apart the Amiga, and removed the Hard Drive.

I looked closely at the drive and noticed the only Jumper there. I decided to carefully remove-and-put-back that DS1 jumper to ensure good contact before putting DRIVE back.

Then I decided to do more....

I also gave a wiggle push on those Power Connectors or whatever those connectors are on the drive.

During re-cabling of ribbon cables I wiped the contacts with some proper circuit board contact cleaner.

WHEN I POWERED UP THE AMIGA, my Heart Stopped when I noticed the DRIVE LED ON THE Drive Blinking during boot up (of Workbench Disk, during Janus Library Load).

Nice consistent pulses like something was happening.

I went Booted up the PC SIDE and booted the MS DOS DISK with the CONFIGS.SYS. More LED PULSES.

I tell you my hands were shaking as I typed in "ADISK" at the DOS PROMPT.

This is what I got When I hit

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/476/32616356876_a153920d81_b.jpg)

I just left the computer on after taking (Photo of Screen) above to write this post.

I need to Lie Down a bit, OR Go for a Walk Outside and think about next steps.

I'm still kind of shaky. Haven't peeked into OS on Amiga or PC.
 Things could be good.

This was a Amiga boot with one of my Hacked Workbench disks (One that I hacked over and over last night).

Oh my...

I can't believe this just happened!! (AFTER starting this Journey Over 2 years ago).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 02, 2017, 02:48:34 AM
close looks like you can still read the partition table.   might just need to just mount the drive.

614 cylinders gives a clue.  do you remember the capacity of the drive, therefore narrow down the model number.    

You can use a size calculator to help narrow down capacity -

http://www.csgnetwork.com/mediasizecalc.html

If theres mainly 4 heads through out the product range, then 614 cylinders seems to give capacity of 21mb.    So guessing might be KL-320 ?    something close to that capacity

Heres a nice table of Kolak drives  http://www.yjfy.com/Hardware/harddisk/Kalok.htm
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 05:30:12 AM
Quote from: darkage;821309
close looks like you can still read the partition table. might just need to just mount the drive.

614 cylinders gives a clue. do you remember the capacity of the drive, therefore narrow down the model number.

You can use a size calculator to help narrow down capacity -

http://www.csgnetwork.com/mediasizecalc.html

If theres mainly 4 heads through out the product range, then 614 cylinders seems to give capacity of 21mb. So guessing might be KL-320 ? something close to that capacity

Heres a nice table of Kolak drives http://www.yjfy.com/Hardware/harddisk/Kalok.htm

Darkage, (Thanks for that Calculator, REALLY HANDY)

If you look at the KL330 specs.
http://www.mfarris.com/hard_drives/kalok/kalok_kl330.html

(and the FDISK Partitions from Amiga), 615 Cylinders (cyl 000-614)

It's the only Match. This must be the DL330

Using your calculator and the Specs:
Makes this Drive 33 Gigs

It's luck that it's the DL330 since it's the only one with all the Drive Specs Listed it means (if I wanted to), I could Low Level Format it using DEBUG and Controller BIOS .

HD Specs (Needed by WD Controller BIOS)
-------------------------------------------------
Cylinders:[ 615 ]
Heads: [ 4 ]
Sector/track: [ 26 ]
Precompensation: [ 65535 ]
Landing Zone [ 615 ]
Data transfer rate [0.938 MB/S int ]
Bytes/Sector [ 512 ]
-------------------------------------------------

I'm not formatting anything.

I'm actually not touching/changing anything right now.

Just doing ( x3) backups of everything that got me to this point.

I can't wait to see if I can Mount and boot those partitions, and what's on there, but would go Nuts if I screwed up a file and had to start guessing all over again.

Not jumping in right away, since I'll enjoy this progress for now, and rest my brain.

Next step might be a rat hole again. OR TWO (DOS & AMIGA).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 02, 2017, 05:37:00 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821314

It's the only Match. This must be the DL330

Using your calculator and the Specs:
Makes this Drive 33 Gigs

33 Megs you mean.     I get 32.694272 Megs exactly.  So KL330  (:  makes sense since we were mainly discussing RLL instead of MFM.

Probably a good idea to make a note of the hdd parameters reported by the controller and label it on the drive.   :P

Someone testing a KL330 using Nortons Disk Doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl8et6ppyDU

Congrats your drive is worth $495.. crazy http://www.harddrives-usa.com/KALOK-KL330-Hard-Drive.-90-DAYS-DEFECTIVE-WARRANTY-pr-5164.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 02, 2017, 07:42:35 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821308
OH MY GOD!! The HARD DRIVE is Alive!
I looked closely at the drive and noticed the only Jumper there. I decided to carefully remove-and-put-back that DS1 jumper to ensure good contact before putting DRIVE back.
....
During re-cabling of ribbon cables I wiped the contacts with some proper circuit board contact cleaner.

:laughing: :banana::juggler::drink:Congratulations.
[/COLOR]
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 08:04:33 AM
Quote from: darkage;821315
33 Megs you mean. I get 32.694272 Megs exactly. So KL330 (: makes sense since we were mainly discussing RLL instead of MFM.

Probably a good idea to make a note of the hdd parameters reported by the controller and label it on the drive. :P

Someone testing a KL330 using Nortons Disk Doctor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl8et6ppyDU

Congrats your drive is worth $495.. crazy http://www.harddrives-usa.com/KALOK-KL330-Hard-Drive.-90-DAYS-DEFECTIVE-WARRANTY-pr-5164.html

Yeah I meant to say 33 Megs. Hard to say Megs these days when you talk about Storage.


Funny. I knew a replacement WORKING test KL330 wouldn't be cheap.

I'm off better with the 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter and IDE/Flash Drive. And I am going to need it......(Glad I ordered it earlier).



I got all my backups done, on the youngest floppies I have.

So I got back to the Hard Drive. Decided to run "fdisk" to see what would happen now. Came back with a "Partion Read Error" just like always.
That didn't concern me at the time since at this point since "adisk" worked.

-> Then I ran "adisk" and first time it worked again.
-> Then 2nd time also got a Partion Read error.
-> Tried again but this time got something different.

I'm no expert in this stuff, but I think the Drive has degraded magnetically.
Might be good to get Disk Doctor, etc

However I've come up with a few ideas.
-> First whatever I do should be minimal Intrusive.
The less I use the drive the better chance of have of a recovery run of some sort (or a refresh). Again I'm no expert.

Perhaps "leofoe" or "Ferrellsl" can chime me if they have expertise.

But here are my ideas.

A) I wait for the ISA/IDE adapter Flash Drive arrives, and get some practice. (see if that works, and learn the Adisk, Fdisk steps, menus and messages)

Then I have some choices to see what can be done with the Octagon.

I've summarized my thinking below(I hope folks don't mind that I'm a visual presented, since not the best writer):.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/473/31849087513_0c1e7e38ee_b.jpg)

And here I've summarize the SPECS to have handy.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/770/31849087053_8757f332ef_o.jpg)

I think best to wait for the Adapter and practice...

Anybody have any other ideas?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: darkage;821315
Congrats your drive is worth $495.. crazy http://www.harddrives-usa.com/KALOK-KL330-Hard-Drive.-90-DAYS-DEFECTIVE-WARRANTY-pr-5164.html

I just thought of something.

Even if I don't get the data, but the drive is good and need a fresh reformat.

I can sell the WD controller with it, and then I can afford a GOTEK :) :) :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 02, 2017, 08:23:38 AM
You cannot run an MFM-drive on the ISA/IDE adapter. MFM is not the same as IDE. Even if they have the same connector.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821326
:laughing: :banana::juggler::drink:Congratulations.
[/COLOR]

Pat, Thanks. I deserve a bit of moving forward after all this work.

The Journey isn't over quite yet. Still much more to figure out and keep learning.

No matter what happens, I learned a TON !! and it was Fun (sometimes).

You and Darkage have stuck with me from the beginning.
Dandy you've rolled up your sleves and have given me ideas and motivation.

And I appreciate everyone's help Very much!

Thank you all.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 08:40:46 AM
Quote from: leofoe;821330
You cannot run an MFM-drive on the ISA/IDE adapter. MFM is not the same as IDE. Even if they have the same connector.

Leofole,

I am not going to use the (Octagon MFM drive) which is plugged into the (ISA MFM Western Digital Controller) in the ISA PC slot on the Amiga. That will be taken out carefully and put on a shelf till later.

I also ordered an IDE USB Drive. (On it's way from USA)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

To use with the ISA/IDE adapter that I order beforehand. (On it's way from POLAND)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282312406702?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The ISA/IDE adapter will go into the same SLOT on the PC side of the Amiga as the ISA-WD MFM Drive Controller.

Basically I'm replacing the Octagon MFM drive with a IDE-Flash Drive.

The 8080 Bridgeboard PC will pick up the C: Drive (hopefully, that is what the adapter is suppose to mimic, NO DRIVE NEEDED).

I'll Partition it, format it, mount drives, etc, etc, etc

Once I learn the steps, try THE IDEAS on WD/Otagon.
Pat gave me this idea.

I may need your guidance on those ideas if you have time, and/or the knowledge to give advice.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 02, 2017, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821305


Thanks Darkage, any info on KALOK Octacon Drive helps.
...
This Photo is extra Large in case someone see's a clue for Model Type.
...



Data for KALOK hard drives taken from Maurice Small's Hard Disk Reference Manual (http://www.epanorama.net/sff/Computer/Drives/Hard_Disk_Reference_Manual_MP247.pdf):

Code: [Select]
Make Model No. Drive Type Capacity in mB No. of Cyl. No. of Heads Sect. p. Track

KALOK KL 320 Octagon 20. MFM 21 615 4 17
KALOK KL 330 Octagon 30. MFM 33 615 4 17
KALOK KL 330 Octagon 30. RLL 33 615 4 26
KALOK KL 340. MFM 42 820 6 17
KALOK KL 360. MFM 42 820 6 17
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 02, 2017, 08:57:47 AM
Quote from: leofoe;821330
You cannot run an MFM-drive on the ISA/IDE adapter. MFM is not the same as IDE. Even if they have the same connector.

Idea started as, Wally has lots of IDE and SCSI drives, but no controller to attach to Amiga.

With the IDE / ISA controller, he can practise setting up hard drives on Amiga and Bridgeboard, so can undestand better how the old school Oktagon is setup.

Plus, it gives him a place to store all the data he can access, once he can access it.

Wally, it was an honour to assist you. 99.99% of people do not want to know about the stone age XT systems and how tricky they were. I don't think drive has an Amiga bootblock as such - first parition is DOS, so should be where Bridgeboard can boot up from when Janus is running properly (needs to be cofigured properly). You personaly always started your system with booting from Amiga floppy on 1.2 system, so why need Amiga bootblock on hard disk? ;)

Ribbon cables suck, long term. They wear out, get tatty and damaged, unreliable. I was taught at factory and lab, any sign of damage, replace. Cannot rely on damaged cables. Even a clumsy melt from contact with a soldering iron, I had to make up a fresh cable. Not acceptable to the end user (industrial, transport and military buyers).

Stick with Kickstart 1.2 system for getting your data. Then switch to 1.3, setup proper Amiga hard driveboot, and never worry again about floppy drive startup. (Until Amiga hard drive stops working, all hard drive with moving parts will wear out one day).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 02, 2017, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821308


OH MY GOD!! The HARD DRIVE is Alive!

Oh my...

I can't believe this just happened!! (AFTER starting this Journey Over 2 years ago).



Congrats also from me!
So problem solved - thread closed?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 02, 2017, 10:02:23 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821332


...
I also ordered an IDE USB Drive. (On it's way from USA)
...
To use with the ISA/IDE adapter that I order beforehand. (On it's way from POLAND)
...
The ISA/IDE adapter will go into the same SLOT on the PC side of the Amiga as the ISA-WD MFM Drive Controller.



???
You want to connect an IDE USB drive to an ISA/IDE adapter?
How do you want to plug the USB plug into the IDE connector?
:confused:

I also have an IDE harddrive in an external casing with USB connector - but this is plugged into an USB port - not into an IDE Controller...

Quote from: wbrejnia;821332


...
The 8080 Bridgeboard PC ...
...



Your Bridgeboard is called "A2088XT".
The "A20" in the name tells you that it is for an Amiga 2000 and the "88XT" tells you that the PC/XT on it has an 8088 CPU.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 02, 2017, 11:33:49 AM
This is what I get when trying to boot from the IDE HDD on the ISA/IDE adapter:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 02, 2017, 11:52:36 AM
have you tried djmount again since viewing the partitioning information on the drive ?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 03:25:32 PM
Quote from: darkage;821342
have you tried djmount again since viewing the partitioning information on the drive ?

DJMOUNT should be running as Part of STARTUP-SEQUENCE, I think the HD LED activity I see happens during DJMOUNT executing.
(but I played with that Hack WB disk a lot, so need to confirm)

DJMOUNT runs in the background so I get no messages, and I'm not sure if the MOUNTLISTs are the correct ones.

Since I'm waiting for Parts to Arrive I'll go back to what I was doing originally:

-> build a NEW WB1.2 DISK
-> then run the BRIGEBOARD INSTALL DISK on top of it
-> then copy over the MOUNTLIST from my OLD ORIGINAL.

By the way, thanks for the VIDEO of Guy Running NORTON on a Octagon.

I looked into that FULLY loaded 486 PC that my friend lent me.

It has everything imaginable. All kinds of DOS Utilities.

Including a copy of NORTON
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/671/32514058512_714eec6a7d.jpg)

Since it's a DOS version each of the Tools are separate DOS programs, so I can copy whatever I need to the AMIGA PC. Might work (if enough memory) and might be very useful down the road.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 03:27:58 PM
Does anyone know how to contact Admins on this Forum?
I created that "wbrejnia" ID a long time ago to check out this place.
I want to change my Alias or ID to something more meaningful.
An Alias that I used during my Early C64/Amiga Days.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 05:25:11 PM
Thinking about possible issues with ( [ISA-IDE] [IDE-SD] Adapter Cards, and Memory CARD[Variants/Sizes] )

So the two card should arrive eventually, but I've been reading about that Lo-Tech-CompactFlash-IDE Adapter.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282312406702?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/282312406702?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

The Ebay item description talks about it being Picky with Compact-Flash-Adpaters and even being Picky with the Particular Flash card.

I decided to go with the SecureDigital (SD not CF) adapter
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
for a few reasons.
- I have more SD cards than I do CF cards
- Easier to put SD into PC, but I do have on PC with a CF reader.
- Say's it works with Amiga and PC (so flexible)

What worries me most is the I do have 1MB, 32MB, and 256MB CF cards, but smallest SD card is 1GB.

Will the size of a Memory CARD be an issue for the AMIGA 8080 PC for the FDISK, and Format (hoping Fdisk will allow to partition the SD into useable Chunks)?
Hope I won't be left wondering that things don't work because of the CF-Adapter, or something wrong with my Setup.

Worst case is for $10 I can always get this CF Adapter (or something Similar)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Syba-IDE-to-CF-Adapter-with-Bracket-Connects-to-3-5-IDE-Host-Interface/400815453925?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620091118%26meid%3D99c28153bacf46c3af75a8ff51a10e41%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231881879210

I was thinking PLAN C would be use an IDE HD, but the only two I have are in the 486 and I won't touch those after Finding NORTON on there (plus more tools).

Another option is one of the [IDE-SATA] [IDE-PATA] Adpaters. ($4). I do have plenty of Both drives (but again, is size that the Bridgeboard PC support an issue), plus [it needs another power connector]
https://www.amazon.ca/HDE-Computer-Drive-Interface-Adapter/dp/B00JVUXMRI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1486057124&sr=8-3&keywords=IDE+hard+drive


I'll just wait and try with what I ordered for now.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 02, 2017, 09:38:45 PM
Possible solution if there is a PHYSICAL DISK LIMIT SIZE on ISA-IDE (SD Card) Drive.

Basically I used a SD Formatting tool to re-format 32GB SD card down to 60 MB.

So if there is limit on the AMIGA PC (DOS) FDISK Partition Tool, this should fake things out.

I'll can basically BUILD ANY Size Drive I want, and then further Partition it up.

THIS IS THEORY, It May or may not work. (To be Clear, the ISA-IDE card plugs into the ISA slot on PC Side of Amiga)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/282/32672328875_ae4fb9d571_c.jpg)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 02, 2017, 11:03:09 PM
Already told you - 2GB initial boot partition, 2GB partition size for other partitions.

File system (FFS) and OS is limited to that, until you get to 3.5/3.9.

You can hack the software resources needed on to OS for big partitions in theory, but probably isn't going to work reliably with 1.2/1.3, if at all.

Size of card/drive isn't an issue, the way it is setup is an issue. Rather like the ancient drive you are trying to get the data off. :)

ISA picture you just posted on left is full size IDE. Adaptor on right is Amiga/laptop sized IDE. They are compatible, but you will need adaptor cable, big to small. Also, adaptor on right probably has power pins, it need +5V and ground from somewhere. They are built in to A600/A1200 IDE connectors at one end.

I think SD cards rock compared to CF. For Amigas or whatever. ;) Good choices, I think.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 02, 2017, 11:07:38 PM
If you have any issues with the SD card,   CF card would be less fussy since they behaviour more like a true IDE device than SD.    See how you go.  

A little write up about CF cards as IDE replacements.

http://support.fccps.cz/download/adv/frr/cf.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 02, 2017, 11:39:39 PM
Oh come on. Max transfer rate on ANY 8 bit ISA card is 4MB a second, on a good day with the wind behind it. 1MB second or less is more typical. Worrying about advanced PIO-4+ IDE compatibility with this age of technology is optimistic, to say the least.

The XT will struggle to beat PIO-0 mode speed. This is why we found the idea of "giga byte solid state storage" very Sci-Fi and unfathomable back then, when the IBM PC XT technology was in use. Now you can buy SD cards in a newsagent kiosk sometimes.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 03:04:28 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821397
Already told you - 2GB initial boot partition, 2GB partition size for other partitions.
...
ISA picture you just posted on left is full size IDE. Adaptor on right is Amiga/laptop sized IDE.
...
I think SD cards rock compared to CF. For Amigas or whatever. ;) Good choices, I think.

** FIRST, does this site get problems with something like COOKIES **
** I can log in, but can't post from my normal desk computer **

I tried at another computer and I'm posting right now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat, I try to pay attention to every one of your info points. I missed the one about Physical Disk Size. I understand now that only limits are the Partition sizes.

If get 2GB per partitions, that will embarrass the current 60MB.

Plus I wouldn't want to hack my OS, it could VOID THE WARRANTY on my A2000. :)

Darn about the LAPTOP IDE connector. The Picture is a bit deceiving.

I specifically paid attention to the connectors (to be male-to-male) so that I could just pop on a ribbon cable. In hindsight I wish I got a different Card, the CF cards look Full Size IDE (100%).

I assume these small IDE connectors are meant to plug into a board Female. I can build a female coupler, or I might be able to use my School Wire wrapping tool directly wrap on the male posts. Maybe not due to size. All a headache I didn't except (Thank for pointing this out).

I assume there are no ready small-Full cables, and this conversion project might cost more than a Standard-FullSize CF adapter. Plus the voltage wire (Messy and a Headache!!)
 I read that CF Cards have signals that are Subset of IDE (if I understand correctly),  the converters are minimal Electronics.  

China sells CD-Adapters dirt cheap, but who has time to wait 8+ weeks. That's how long I usually wait for purchases on Aliexpress.

Glad the ISA-IDE adapter is ok, it's much more pricey. (Will look thru my Inventory, maybe I do have IDE HDs, might be easier)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 03:44:32 AM
I switched to Firefox from IE and I can post again :)

Anyway I looked at my spare drives, have at least 5 ATA or PATA labeled drives (various sizes).

I'm fine for a quick start with the ISA-IDE adapter.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 03, 2017, 06:19:36 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821413
China sells CD-Adapters dirt cheap, but who has time to wait 8+ weeks. That's how long I usually wait for purchases on Aliexpress.


If they ship via ePacket, it took me 6 days to get delivered in Australia.   ePacket is a economical delivery method thats uses EMS service infrastructure,  so its normally on the plane 1 to 2 days after purchase and doesnt really add any additional costs.

Old ePacket example for China to US  http://smilecitrus.info/?p=2676
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 06:26:23 AM
I ran NORTON TOOLS on the Amiga PC.  SysInfo and DISK-DOCTOR.

I Answered NO for all the options to Correct.


** THAT ScreenShot Bottom Right IS FROM the One Lucky good run of ADISK **
 
(Right now running ADISK gives no Partition, and offers to create first sector, and boot procedure, and partiontion table)
 

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/672/31866104643_9cf2dc3a19_b.jpg)

Should I run some HARD DISK SCANS to see  DATA?

Or let Norton do the Partition fixes.  (DANGEROUS, but might be needed for PARTITION 1 - DOS)

Norton has a REMOVE CHANGES made Option (but could this be permanent damage).

Whatever advice anyone wants to give.  You will not be held responsible.  The decision is mine.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 06:28:36 AM
Quote from: leofoe;821340
This is what I get when trying to boot from the IDE HDD on the ISA/IDE adapter:

Not too promising for me.  Thanks for showing this.

But if you boot from a DOS FLOPPY BOOT DISK, can you see the C: drive.  (Doesn't boot is one thing, but is the C: drive there)
Can you put Norton Disk Doctor or SYSINFO on the Floppy like I did, and see what shows up?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 07:13:09 AM
Here are my thoughts (only thinking out loud for everyone's input).

1)  I will NOT make any changes to the Hard Disk at all (that could destroy things (ie partition info, data)

2a) I wait for the ISA-IDE card to arrive
2b) I remove the WD controller Card and MFM Drive
2c) I hook up the IDE Hardrive to the ISA-IDE card
2d) AND see what I can do.  Learn how the ADISK, FDISK, Norton behaves

That will help determine next possible steps with the MFM drive

-> What I want to mention is that right now (ADISK) doesn't pick up the partitions (anymore).   Only tried twice today.
-> It did only the one time. (Lucky I got that info on the two partitions)

-> I may try HARD rebooting the system a few times to see if I can get ADISK to pick up the PARTITIONS again.  

-> Based on what I learn from the ISA-IDE setup, I may be able to do more if ADISK picks up the PARTITIONS
-> Like RUN disk doctor for a READ ONLY VIEW (like photo's today)

When ADISK runs and it picks up the partitions, you get that two partition screen with info.

-> When ADISK doesn't pick up partitions, if offers to make one.
-> But as Pat mentioned, that is a NO-NO since Partition 1 is DOS, and letting ADISK make a AMIGA partition, would destroy the DOS parition.
-> If I get the ADISK to pick up partitions, I should exit and run FDISK (it might pick up the DOS Partition (#1) ), not sure what it would pick up for (#2) since not written for Amiga.

ADISK was written with Knowledge of AMIGA Partitions and DOS Partitions, so can identify both properly.  FDISK can't identify both.

-> And when the partitions are pick up, that drive could be in a Lucky State where disk doctor would see the Partition (#1), the DOS partition.

All theories (based on my near zero understanding)

As mentioned at the beginning, I must not be hasty and wait for the ISA-IDE adapter, and hope I learn more.

**** ONE more important fact, in case someone is thinking that the cables are flaky, thus the intermittent Partition pickup
**** My assumption yesterday was wrong.  Cleaning the contacts, and reseeding the HD jumper wasn't the actual Fix
*** Today when looking more closer (and comparing pictures, of recent and 2 years ago), I discover what the fix actually was (yesterday)
*** THE RIBBON CABLES were Marked with proper connection at the MFM drive (marked them two years ago)
*** I marked the ribbon cable near the 2nd connector, after the twist in the Ribbon cable for a 2nd Drive
*** That is where I have been hooking up the MFM Drive (for last 2 years)
*** Last night when I remove the drive for the Photo, I by luck connected to the FIRST Connector, before the TWIST
*** THat is what made the drive start working, and when the LED's started blinking, and When the ADISK picked up the Paritition

That cabling is Proper NOW. (What a big mistake done two years ago when labelling cables, but a thing of the past)

Time to move forward, carefully.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 03, 2017, 09:13:29 AM
I wonder if DOS version of Ranish Partition Manager could be of some help, as it reads many kinds of Hard Disks values.

P.S.

@Admins. I am surfing these pages with Firefox on Android tablet and today is the first time it happens site loses my log status.

I mean I logged in, then site loses my logged in status every page I turn. For example when I am on page 14 when starting loading page 15 I must log in again... I made no any changes to cookies settings, so I wonder what's happening on. I repeat. First time I experienced this.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 03, 2017, 10:54:09 AM
The expert on Bridgeboards: BlindGerMan: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33435
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: leofoe;821438
The expert on Bridgeboards: BlindGerMan: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=33435

Thank you Leofoe.  This is very good information on Bridgeboard.
EXCELLENT INFORMATION. and a Good Contact if I need more.

All German, but Google Can translate, and so can my wife.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 04:52:50 PM
HARD DRIVE (DATA RECOVERY) on (MDOS Partition) * OPTION *

Pat,

I've been thinking, and I believe this was one of your suggestions on next steps...

Sure it would be nice to fix those two Partitions (MS DOS) and (AMIGA DOS).

Even better to be able to Boot off either.

I'll learn more when the ISA-IDE adapter arrives (if that works).

However I'm thinking that I might want to start looking into some kind of DOS DATA recovery tool (Could be in Norton 6.0).

Since I can talk to the WD controller and it can read the RAW MFM disk, could I READ-Scan the drive byte-by-byte.  Possibly just see a list of Files that are there.

I'm going to read up on DOS file structure (boot sectors, etc), but Norton Tools and other-Tools should have more know how then I'll ever figure out my lifetime.

Maybe there is a tool where I can manually put in the Partition info, knowing the tracks and sectors, etc (without updating the Partition Info on the Drive)

If that's possible, then next step would be to transfer those bits/bytes on a 2nd Media (somehow is another question), and possibly reconstruct some files on the (486 Machine, or even my Personal Windows Machine).

I would focus on the FIRST DOS Partition, since that is what DOS tools understand.

I could be lucky and even be able to View my School work paper which I know for certain was written in ASCII test. (Hopefully on the DOS side.  I bet I used a DOS word-processor or text-editior,  not a Amiga one).  I know that paper didn't include any Fancy images (like today's MS Word abilities), since I glued in Paper Photos to complete the Project.

1) The main thought in my head is NOT to WRITE  "a Single BIT" to that hard drive.

2) Instead, READ every "bit/byte" that I can, before trying any Partition Fixes.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 06:51:34 PM
DOS Based HARD DRIVE TOOLS

There is a ton of stuff out there for DOS Disk Tools.

This link has some interesting stuff.
http://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/disk1.htm#repair

Must be careful since non-commercial stuff could be dangerous.

Best to see what Norton can do.

My limitation at this point is I only have limited space on the B: 5.25" Floppy (360K) and not all available.

Maybe that ISA/IDE adapter will allow me to have both the MFM-DRIVE (Conncted to WD-ST Contrller Card) and the IDE Drive(on ISA/IDE Card) on the Amiga PC at the same time.

 (That didn't work in the 486 due to Controller Card Conflict, but I may be able to get the 486 dual connected with the ISA/IDE adapter)
(But I would still need a Floppy Controller to boot on the 486)  
Would need to buy one of these $$$ CRAZY EH?? (Not tested!!) $$$ http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

[[ I should just FORMAT THE MFM Drive, Proove it's good, and Sell the 8-BIT Western Digital Controller Card with the MFM Drive, and BUY A WHOLE NEW FISH TANK :) :) )  Hilarious.

At least the Amiga PC has a Floppy Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 09:10:58 PM
Some possible options for the Hard Drive Data Dump (Needed for the Recovery Tool Program).

Yup, might have to build my own Data Recovery Lab.  :)  

Really hoping OPTION 1 works.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/633/31877859363_a6f9f5d899_c.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 03, 2017, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;821434
I wonder if DOS version of Ranish Partition Manager could be of some help, as it reads many kinds of Hard Disks values.
Raffaele,

I downloaded, read up and tried the Ranish program.  Nice Lite program.

Help file is Super to describe DOS File system in detail
(Everything I needed)

Nice feature to copy MBR when (picked up).

But this boot of the Amiga PC,  didn't pick up Partitions.

(So if Amiga ever boots up with Partition, I'll make a copy of the MBR.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/722/32312027950_2f279b7322_z.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 04, 2017, 12:34:09 AM
The problem with using DOS recovery tools - they are not going to recover data stored on the Amiga partition.

You would be gambling on the data you see being purely in the DOS partition.

Anyway, all looks good from here. I really don't see why you are reaching fos DOS recovery program.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 04, 2017, 12:41:05 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821413
I specifically paid attention to the connectors (to be male-to-male) so that I could just pop on a ribbon cable. In hindsight I wish I got a different Card, the CF cards look Full Size IDE (100%).

I assume these small IDE connectors are meant to plug into a board Female. I can build a female coupler, or I might be able to use my School Wire wrapping tool directly wrap on the male posts. Maybe not due to size. All a headache I didn't except (Thank for pointing this out).

I assume there are no ready small-Full cables, and this conversion project might cost more than a Standard-FullSize CF adapter. Plus the voltage wire (Messy and a Headache!!)

Well, such small/big convertor cables are not common, because they are tricky to build. But I have seen them around, occasionally on ebay, etc.

It's not like the pins are different or swapped around, just in a smaller size. And remember, couple extras on one end for power on the little ones. Usually called IDE 2.5 3.5 convector or adaptor. This is visual example;-

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811993005&cm_re=3.5_ide_to_2.5_ide_adapter-_-11-993-005-_-Product
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 01:35:34 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821485
The problem with using DOS recovery tools - they are not going to recover data stored on the Amiga partition.

You would be gambling on the data you see being purely in the DOS partition.

Anyway, all looks good from here. I really don't see why you are reaching fos DOS recovery program.

We'll I actually don't know what I'm doing, but am trying to learn all the bits aand pieces.

The reason for DOS anything, is the First Partition of the MFM disk is a DOS PARTITION.  

Maybe Adisk is not going forward till it has a first Partition clean (since the Menu for Adisk is for both DOS and AMIGA).

Decades ago I must have created the DOS partition, and the Amiga Partition (formatted and installed stuff)

I will try and fix the First Partition if possible (FIRST)


I am wondering if I can actually do one of these things:

- (A)  READ the Raw Data and see if I can get a feeling of what's on that disk.
- (B) Copy the disk somehow and rebuild on another good disk

- (C) Longshot, but Use a disk editor and reconstruct the MFM disk by writing back some information that has been lost (like the Boot Sector etc).  (REFRESH the information from things I know. DRIVE SPEC and possible Format structure)

This (C) Idea comes from reading that help section of Ranish's PC Manager as quoted below:

The version of DOS at the time, matches the technology and DISK systems that my Amiga PC was built with.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Classical MS-DOS file systems

0x01, "DOS FAT-12"    
0x04, "DOS FAT-16 (under 32M)"    
0x06, "BIGDOS FAT-16 (over 32M)"    

All file systems have the same structure:              
[Boot Sector]        
[First copy of FAT]        
[Second copy of FAT]        
[Root Directory]        
[Cluster 2]        
[Cluster 3]        
[Cluster 4]        
...        
Boot sector, FATs, Root Directory, and clusters have fixed sizes,    which you  can set only when you are formatting the disk.      
   Space for all subdirectories and files is allocated by clusters.    
If cluster size is 8 sectors = 4,096 bytes, when you create file with    size of 1 byte it will get entire 4,096 bytes cluster.      
There is an entry in FAT (File Allocation Table) for each cluster,    which tells if cluster is free, allocated, or damaged. Therefore size    of the FAT determines maximum number of clusters.

FAT-12 file system is limited to 4084 clusters. It is used on the    floppy disks, but you can also use it on a small hard disk partition.            

FAT-16 was used on early hard disks. Original version could have    up to 65,000 clusters on partitions up to 32M.          

BIGDOS FAT-16 which was released with DOS 3.31 doesn't have 32M     limitation and can be as large as 2G. For backward compartibility    all DOS versions later than 3.31 will accept both FAT-12 and FAT-16    file systems in the BIGDOS partition.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a MANUAL DISK Editor in DISK DOCTOR.

And Maybe those things DISK DOCTOR was trying to do is equivalent to a refresh of MBR etc.  

Disk Doctor asked two questions (If disk was readable before, and if disk was bootable before):

- Then first recommendation was (It would fix signature In Partition Table)
- Next was to (Fix Master Partition Program) so Partition Could boot.

-> Isn't that was ADISK was also trying to do (With out a "Do you want to continue Y/N").
   Why would someone write a program to proceed with destruction, and no prompt (just hit any KEY)
   I COULD NOT GET OUT OF ADISK at that point without POWER OFF.

-----> I think the AMIGA PC booted from the C: drive (Partition 1 of MFM Drive)  
-----> ** AFTER JANUS Loaded off Workbench Floppy ** (That happens now, but off the 5.25" Floppy boot disk)
-----> If I fix HD Dos Partition 1, make it bootable, (if not corrupted data) then it might boot with WorkBench From Cold start.

** HOW TO FIX THE AMIGA PARTITION is a totally separate thing , but what if things continue once First Partition is good **

Can't hurt to try (AFTER DOING A RAW SCAN and read contents).

Again, I know nothing much.  Hoping for some luck on something complex, but yet primitive.

Will search on the Web for Manual Disk Editor Restoration.

Setting up the Explorer PC (with an Empty IDE Drive) to fool around with FDISK, The tools I have.  (ie Format a disk, put on some files, DESTROY, Corrupt MBR).  Learn the tools for 1 DOS partition.

I have nothing to loose since I have nothing now.
Any tidbit I get is BONUS.

-Then I low Level Format the Drive.
-Partition it Fresh.
-Format, and start like New.-Scan it for errors, and put the (Controller and Disk, if good) up for Sale on Ebay.


POP in the ISA-IDE Adpater with a IDE Drive, and I'm done!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 02:44:27 AM
JUST TRIED SOMETHING CRAZY and it's working!!

I have 3 keyboards:

- One for Amiga which serves for (AMIGA and AMIGA-PC)
- One for 486 PC
- One for Amiga-Explorer (Windows XP)

Well when typing on the Amiga-PC, using the AMIGA KEYBOARD, I've always went into AMIGA MINDSET.

After writing post above, I was thinking I can't wait for the ISA-IDE adapter to arrive so I can try some things on the AMIGA-PC.

Then it hit me "ADISK" is an Amiga Utility, but IT IS for AMIGA-PC (So DOS).

- I Formatted a Fresh DOS 6.2 (3.5" FLoopy) Bootable
- Copied over all the DOS Bridbgeboard disk files
- Created a CONFIG.SYS with (DEVICE=JDISK.sys)
- Boot the Floppy in my WindowsXP PC

ADISK WORKS!!  (Picked up the DOS Partition on HD)... Full menu including option to make an DOS & AMIGA PARTITION (like like the MFM Drive on the Amiga-PC).

I'm going to replace the IDE drive in the XP machine (with a spare) and start playing with all the tools I got.  (RISK FREE)

NO more (downloading on my Workstation....copying to USB, moving to 486, then copy to 5.25 (low capacity), then to Amiga PC). :) :) :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 04, 2017, 04:08:04 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821496

Then it hit me "ADISK" is an Amiga Utility, but IT IS for AMIGA-PC (So DOS).

- I Formatted a Fresh DOS 6.2 (3.5" FLoopy) Bootable
- Copied over all the DOS Bridbgeboard disk files
- Created a CONFIG.SYS with (DEVICE=JDISK.sys)
- Boot the Floppy in my WindowsXP PC

ADISK WORKS!!  (Picked up the DOS Partition on HD)... Full menu including option to make an DOS & AMIGA PARTITION (like like the MFM Drive on the Amiga-PC).

I'm going to replace the IDE drive in the XP machine (with a spare) and start playing with all the tools I got.  (RISK FREE)

NO more (downloading on my Workstation....copying to USB, moving to 486, then copy to 5.25 (low capacity), then to Amiga PC). :) :) :)

This is the bottom line. You can't do anything on an XT system unless you are prepared to make bootdisks with config.sys set just right. :)

Once you are prepared to do that, everything becomes accessible. Until you do that, expansions are a closed off area... and that is DOS and the XT for you.

Told you enough times, data is probably OK. :) Now get lots of practice, it is very good idea to have experiment setup to learn from. :laugh1:

Hard drive heads MUST be OK, if not they would have destroyed disk info areas already. It's a go, green light, everything OK indicator, on that hard drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 05:00:09 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821499
This is the bottom line. You can't do anything on an XT system unless you are prepared to make bootdisks with config.sys set just right. :)

Once you are prepared to do that, everything becomes accessible. Until you do that, expansions are a closed off area... and that is DOS and the XT for you.

Told you enough times, data is probably OK. :) Now get lots of practice, it is very good idea to have experiment setup to learn from. :laugh1:

Hard drive heads MUST be OK, if not they would have destroyed disk info areas already. It's a go, green light, everything OK indicator, on that hard drive.
Pat, Sorry if I confused you.  Should have done a diagram.  Or been more clear. (There are 3 computers)

What I just did above was not on the 486AT machine (Window3.11) with the ISA slots (and no On board HD Controller).  (That would have been great since I could play with the ISA-WD-MFM controller and talk to the MFM drive)
I CAN'T USE THAT HOST since the HD Controller is multi purpose (HD-FLOPPY), so I can't get a floppy boot when I plug in the WD-MFM-Controller card.  Plus PC freezes after BIOS when I do.

I used the WindowXP machine (which I call the AmigaExplorer-Host) that has an MOtherboard with OnBoard HD IDE controller.
 I have an IDE Drive, and floppy drive. (MB BIOS picked up the IDE-drive [easy-peasy, no config.sys]
What I did it booted the ADISK floppy in there, and ran Adisk.  It's not ideal but it allows me to play with an IDE Drive with two partions(DOS/AMIGA) just like the MFM drive.

I can PRACTICE with the DISK editor, Disk Doctors.  Learn how to scan raw disk data.   Put some data on there, corrupt partition.  Correct/re-write partition, and see if data structure/Filesystem comes back intact.
I can't put DATA/filesystem or see the AMIGA PARTITION on this PC, but will know how DISK DOCTOR, SCANNING works on it.
(But another crazy thought is load AmigaForever on this PC and see if it can mount the AMIGA partition (#2)) (( WILL THAT WORK?? ))

This learning will have me very prepared with a procedure for attempting to read/dump/clone, fix, rebuild the MFM drive in the Amiga PC (8088 Machine) _>> The only host I can use for the MFM/COntroller Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 04, 2017, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821480
Raffaele,

I downloaded, read up and tried the Ranish program.  Nice Lite program.

Help file is Super to describe DOS File system in detail


It seems it reads your Disk geometry correctly, but the fact it does not recognize any partition is a problem.

I remember a version of Ranish caoable of imposing HD to impose manually DOS type when this feature was corrupted, but maybe I was wrong.

Also I do not remember if Verify option in Ranish returns just infos or if it attempts rebuilt corrupted sectors.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;821502
It seems it reads your Disk geometry correctly, but the fact it does not recognize any partition is a problem.

I remember a version of Ranish caoable of imposing HD to impose manually DOS type when this feature was corrupted, but maybe I was wrong.

Also I do not remember if Verify option in Ranish returns just infos or if it attempts rebuilt corrupted sectors.
With new setup I got to fool around a lot with that spare IDE drive.
Very quick compared to booting Amiga then Amiga pc.

Learning a ton about MBR structure.  Really interesting.

Ranish is useful, mostly for that manual, but can be dangerous if you don't use proper /switches.

Disk Doctor is extremely Dangerous in Auto Mode.

I think Manual DISK Editor will be the key to re-write the Partition Entry of the MBR onto the MFM drive. Getting the first DOS Partition fixed is the bridge to the 2nd AMIGA partition.

What I learned from practice which I wanted to know, is a RAW disk doesn't become a C: drive till the Partition table is there, and the Mode is set to ACTIVE.
And even if c: drive is visible after partition is there, only after format can you do a dir C: on it.
Bootstrap code in the MBR is important for the drive to be bootable.

I think I'll figure this out, but need much more practice.  Data is there so long as I don't format I'm ok.  
Finding the right tool to scan byte by byte will get me my TEXT School paper (I think).  
But it would be fun to restore both Partitions and booth both the PC and the Amiga off the MFM drive.

This is complicated bit-and-byte-wise, but actually simple concepts.


I THINK MY BEST CHANCE would be if I manage to read those two Partition table entries (just the bytes), after many read attempts.  Then write them back to refresh the magnetic byte on the Hard drive.  Even partial recovery would be enough since I have some of the missing pieces knowing the Structure of my DISK.

 Raffaele, I'm not expert (YET), but if you have having boot problems, have you set the IDE drive Partition to Active, and installed  Bootstrap code?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: leofoe;821340
This is what I get when trying to boot from the IDE HDD on the ISA/IDE adapter:

Loefoe,

Does FDISK or ADISK pick up the Drive? (doesn't come back with NO FIXED DISKS message (fdisk), or "READ ERROR" (adisk) ).

If it doesn't pick up then you have a problem of some kind.  

If it does, the ISA/IDE is working properly and another thing needs to be solved..
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 04, 2017, 05:43:03 PM
This picture is from a long time ago. I do not use this adapter. In stead I have a filecard with a replacement MFM drive that works OK (see the video).

In the thread on a1k.org that I mentioned, someone has also tried to get the ISA/IDE adapter to work. He seems to have succeeded with very specific alterations/settings.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 05:52:24 PM
HARD DRIVE [MBR Master Boot Record] FDISK, ADISK, FORMAT, LOW-LEVEL-FORMAT

Pat, you mentioned that 99.99% of people are no longer interested in Stone age stuff.

We'll I'm the .01% of people that are very interested.


And what's interesting is that the STONE age stuff is still the foundation when it comes to All storage MEDIA, even modern, CF, USB sticks, SSD's etc.  
It is still used by all modern OS's these days (but expanded/improved).



It's all explained here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record

So for my hard drive the first 512 bytes holds everything I need to get access to my data from an OS.

If I can fix the needed info in the first 512 byte of the Hard Drive it will truly come back to life (fully).  May not mean the data is 100% there (I may get read errors on filesystem), but enough to read it via DOS/AMIGA OS (and tools like DISK DOCTOR utilities)

The first 512 Bytes of ANY HARD DRIVE is what makes a DRIVE GOOD (to BIOS on Mother boards and Operating systems).  
GOOD means recognized by FDISK, ADISK and High Level OS FORMAT or LOWER LEVEL (COMPUTER HW BIOS).

I'm glad I never ran the DEBUG Low Level Format (Via WD Card BIOS) since then I'd be screwed (if it de-allocated the sector conataining my 512 Byte MBR).

What I understand (i think), is that the BIOS LOW LEVEL format scans and marks bad sectors on the disk and marks them unusable, and restructures the good sectors.  Thus a low level format would DE-allocate the area of the MFM disk that my partition information is in. (Losing my current MBR).

If the current MBR is not refreshable then then there is no hope to restore the drive to OS readable (as it was).  But it doesn't mean I can't still get the data off in RAW format.

I have lots of playing and practice to do on my WinXP machine and the IDE Spare drive.

Stay tuned...more to come.

 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 04, 2017, 06:04:19 PM
HARD DRIVE [MBR Master Boot Record] FDISK, ADISK, FORMAT, LOW-LEVEL-FORMAT

Pat, you mentioned that 99.99% of people are no longer interested in Stone age stuff.

We'll I'm the .01% of people that are very interested.


And what's interesting is that the STONE age stuff is still the foundation when it comes to All storage MEDIA, even modern, CF, USB sticks, SSD's etc.  
It is still used by all modern OS's these days (but expanded/improved).



It's all explained here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record
(I believe my HARD Drive has the
Structure of a classical generic MBR), but it doesn't matter which  since all Structures have partition info at address=446

So for my hard drive the first 512 bytes holds everything I need to get access to my data from an OS.

If I can fix the needed info in the first 512 byte of the Hard Drive it will truly come back to life (fully).  May not mean the data is 100% there (I may get read errors on filesystem), but enough to read it via DOS/AMIGA OS (an tools like DISK DOCTOR utilities)

The first 512 Bytes of ANY HARD DRIVE is what make a DRIVE GOOD.  
GOOD means recognized by FDISK, ADISK and High Level OS FORMAT.

I'm glad I never ran the DEBUG Low Level Format (Via WD Card BIOS) since then I'd be screwed.

What I understand (i think), is that the BIOS LOW LEVEL format scans and marks bad sectors on the disk and marks them unusable, and restructures the good sectors.  Thus a low level format would DE-allocate the area of the MFM disk that my partition information is in. (Losing my current MBR).

If the current MBR is not refreshable then then there is no hope to restore the drive to OS readable (as it was).  But it doesn't mean I can't still get the data off in RAW format.


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 05, 2017, 07:20:04 AM
I am half way to the Unknown.

So I've been reading and learning, then I started playing.

In a nutshell, I understand partitions and MBR like never before.

I fooled around on the PLAY-PC with the spare IDE-HD.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I was going to get into the most powerful but dangerous Norton DISKEDIT tools, but I found a interesting Norton tool called Norton DISKTOOL.

DISKTOOL allows you to make a RESCUE (backup copy) of your HardDrive Partition table(MBR), that you can use to load back into the HARD DRIVE if it is every corrupted, or lost.  
(Limitation is that it uses DOS OS to do it, not direct to DISK)

So I created a couple of partitions on the PLAY-PC.

A DOS Partition (using fdisk) and a AMIGA Partition( using adisk).

I formatted the DOS Partition, made it active and There was my C: drive.
I put some files on there that I would recognize.

THEN I RAN Norton DISKTOOL, and made a backup copy of the partition info.

I then DESTROYED the DOS Partition.  No more C: drive.

I ran DISKTOOLS, and ran the Load-back of the Copy, and C: drive came back with all the files I put there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried DISKTOOLS on the AMIGA PC (but it came back with BAD PARTITION INFO).

 So PARTITION information is Corrupt or NOT ALWAYS READABLE.

What I learned is MBR is loaded by DOS at Boot up.

So that is what the LONG BLINK/PULSES on the HardDrive I see at boot.  
I guess Amiga/AmigaPC  try to read MBR, but eventually they give up.  

I got lucky that one time on Boot when MBR got picked up and ADISK saw the partitions.
 (Adisk and Fdisk works through dos, and not directly to the RAW DISK).  Norton DISKEDIT will bypass DOS and go directly to the DISK for the MBR info. (Thus were the power and danger comes into play)

If I did the PARTITION backup  on the Amiga PC when it was good then recovery of the MFM DISK Partitions would be easy.

Actually if I ran DISKTOOL Part. Backup, (that one time the Amiga PC) showed the ADISK info (I could have grabbed a copy of the Partitions), and possibly RE-WRITTEN them back to Refresh the Drive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
So my plan is to reboot a few times and hope I get lucky again, to be able to get the MFM Parition INfo (via DOS).

IF NOT, then I have to move on to using Norton DISKEDIT, and what I'll do is still unknown (need to learn more), but the plan is to undestand enough an then write MANUALLY the MBR.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 05, 2017, 09:37:40 AM
** MISSION ACCOMPLISHED -- THE RAW WAY **

WHAT I DESCRIBE IN A FEW LINES below didn't happen in a few seconds, it took some time, some painful idea (Trial & Errors) , and at one point thinking of giving up.

- So I got into Norton DISK Editor after giving up on picking up the MBR rebooting and a few other things.

I played with DISKEDIT and learn there are different kinds of view (HEX, Parition, Bootblock, File Structure, and PLAIN OLD ASCII)

Pretty cryptic stuff for a rookie like me.

-> NORTON DISK EDIT couldn't access the DRIVE THRU DOS (LOGICIAL DISK)

-> But switching to Physical Disk it could read the CYLINDER, SECTORS, etc

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I entered the First Partition (DOS), and there was no MBR to read
- As I paged thru the Cylinders there were some unreadable sectors (the First Partition Data has errors)

** BASICALLY the FILESYTEM for DOS Parition is corrupt. **

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I looked up the ADISK information (that I got that lucky 1 time)  on the AMIGA Parition which starts as CYLINDER 406  (SO I JUMPED TO THAT CYLINDER)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- The Amiga Partition looked much better

No Errors reading Cylinder, Sectors etc

I didn't learn much about AMIGA FILE System Structure, so I wasn't go to try to even guess on what to look for.

Then I Switch to Norton ASCII view, and paging through saw a Game Title.

I discovered a ASCII Search Feature and first did a search on my name "WALLY".  
It found a snipet line from something that looked like a Letter head with my Phone #

THEN I GOT AN IDEA.
  I searched for the string "68705" which is the Processor I used for my University Paper for the Universal EPROM Programmer.

And there is was..... (MY Thesis Table of Contents )

Found in RAW Ascii Format, using Norton Disk Editor and ASCII Search on the string "68705"

Same string as on my Adapter Module.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/372/31662157203_4db5bd3575_m.jpg)


Cool :)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/554/32596423791_e5478cf508_z.jpg)

Feels nice that all this work has accomplished something.  (The Missing Thesis Paper)

I got some ideas for next steps, but I can take a well deserve break now.

WallyB

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 05, 2017, 10:19:49 PM
[ Hard Drive - DATA RECOVERY LAB Trial * Needs fine tuning * ]

Man, this next step is complicated!!

I thought I understood things to get the data of the MFM-Hard-Drive.

Basically (I did this with my PLAY-PC to not destroy any data):

Simulating what I would do on the Amiga-PC with MFM-Drive if this worked

1) I SETUP the SPARE IDE-DRIVE (and put some files on it)

2a) The plan was to dump sectors off the IDE-DRIVE on to Floppy (using Norton DISKEDIT dump sector feature TO A FILE)
2b) Then COPY the Floppy (sector dump file) to another computer
3c) This would required many DUMPS since the floppy could only hold 720Kb per dump

- I actually worked (but it didn't work as I expected)
- It didn't dump a file named DUMP onto the Floppy (even though a file appeared doing a "dir a:"
- I actually did a Data Dump into the Floppy (into the same sectors as the SOURCE hard drive being copied)
- THUS it actually DESTROYED the Floppy File system (by overwritting the same sectors taken from the Hard Drive)


The MFM DUMP goal is two possibilities:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Just a simple dump that I can use on another better computer to read my School Work
2) Bit more ambitious (but get a dump of the MFM drive) so that I could re-built the AMIGA-PARTION
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I need to play more with Norton, since there are so many tools and within each many options.

I also need to look for other tool for Hard Drive Content Dumps (But they need to be small DOS tools that can read a Physical Drive, not logical drive)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW.  From my scanning, it appears the DOS PARTITION is nearly BLANK (All Zero's).
 It must have been just simple MS DOS Boot Partition (just like the Floppy I'm using now to get the AmigaPC started)
So no need to worry about PARTITION 1. (MS DOS Boot Partition).  ** That I can just install fresh after I get data off Partition 2 **

I bet if I Re-Partition and Format the First Partition to have the AMIGA-PC boot DOS (ie restore the MBR).  
The 2nd AMIGA partition which looks good from SCANNING, may actually POP into existence.

(But too early to try that, since I worry a Format of the FIRST PARTITION, may format into the 2nd Partition if the START and END points of the first partition are incorrect)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking for other DOS based data recovery tools to make this easier.

I mean once I have a copy of the MFM disk (bytes in HEX/ACSII) That is good enough for me to start more risky things.


If anyone knows of some Simple (DOS) HARD DRIVE (RAW Physical-Dump) Tools please pass on.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 05, 2017, 10:45:15 PM
ACTIVE@ Disk Image for DOS looks promising. (but probably won't work for the AmigaDOS image)

http://disk-image.net/document_dos.htm

But it's good enough to get the RAW Surface image of the MFM drive.

Then I'll need a similar program for the AMIGA (any out there?)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 06, 2017, 12:14:34 AM
Disk imaging software

I think this one looks promising - http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr_downloads.html

I get the feeling some might be more focussed for Diskette imaging.   The link above I think it does fixed disks.  

You wont be able to  save the image to the same partition/disk your imaging from.      See if you can get another hdd running side by side to save the image too.

Discussion about imaging software - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36239-Disk-imaging-software-for-DOS
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 06, 2017, 12:32:17 AM
Quote from: darkage;821608
Disk imaging software

See if you can get another hdd running side by side to save the image too.

Darkage, Thanks for everything in above post.  I always go back on these posts to look for gold nuggets.
(Brutman's look interesting since it tried multiple-re-read on bad data)

But you are thinking the same things I am (why do all these floppy copy stuff).  
If I can get a 2nd Hard disk on the AMIGA PC, that changes everything (SIDE-BY-SIDE HD's :) ).

The KEY is that Low-Tech-ISA-IDE adapter.  It just entered US customs and is on the way.  
That will hopefully allow me (to use my IDE drive) in the AMIGA PC-ISA slot.
 
(** I have no way to put the MFM-Controller into anywhere else  **)
 But I just found this, there is a way [disable IDE in bios] (but again I have no Floppy to boot from) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-10200.html


The big question is, can a PC XT have two HARD DRIVE CONTROLLERS?

It didn't allow me to do that in the 486AT, but maybe that is because the HD Controller in there is a 16Bit, and the WD-MFM-HD controller is 8 bit.

Keeping my fingers crossed on the ISA-IDE adapter.

If someone can answer (If two HD controllers can go into an XT) then I should stop the sloppy-floppy work, and wait for the ISA-IDE Adapter.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 06, 2017, 12:51:37 AM
Quote from: darkage;821608
Discussion about imaging software - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36239-Disk-imaging-software-for-DOS
:) :) Hillarious :) :)

The guy had an MFM Drive like me, and there are folks that were offering to get the data off it ($free) , and send him a CD with a copy of the DATA (if he let them keep the MFM Drive).

Looks like MFM drives are hard to find and valuable (even back in 2013).  Thus why you found the $MFM$ drive for a hefty price.

I'm holding on to mine :)  For now.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF I HAVEN't Posted this before YOU GO TO CLICK on this EBay Sale
This would solve my 486-AT 2x (HD Controller Conflict Problem) by putting in an 8-BIT-ISA-Floppy-Controller in to (BOOT DOS floppy)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

Just a few pennies.  10,229,989 pennies that is :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 06, 2017, 01:00:50 AM
Im pretty sure the marketing spill for the ISA XT CF card you got, mentions that it can co-exist with MFM/RLL controller cards.    It has a large selection of different addresses for this purpose.

Edit - Ive still have a full height 5.25" MFM drive in my parents garage.   Sounds like a jet taking off.   THink it has a bad sector towards the end of the drive, since on my a500 it would corrupt at the exact same % full.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 06, 2017, 01:19:26 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821613

IF I HAVEN't Posted this before YOU GO TO CLICK on this EBay Sale
This would solve my 486-AT 2x (HD Controller Conflict Problem) by putting in an 8-BIT-ISA-Floppy-Controller in to (BOOT DOS floppy)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

Just a few pennies.  10,229,989 pennies that is :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


It could be worse https://www.wired.com/2012/08/the-ridiculously-overpriced-vintage-tech-of-ebay/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 06, 2017, 01:35:30 AM
Quote from: darkage;821614
Im pretty sure the marketing spill for the ISA XT CF card you got, mentions that it can co-exist with MFM/RLL controller cards.    It has a large selection of different addresses for this purpose.
Thanks for pointing that out.  I remember reading it in my Super-Rookie stage and didn't have a clue what that meant.  Now I do.

I have to thank Pat to suggesting the ISA-IDE-Adapter, it might prove more useful than originally planned.

I you suggested the Gotek drive.  Well I found one here locally for a good price and it should arrive any day. Beige to match the A2000 Case.  Flashed and ready for the Amiga.

It will be fun to SUPER PIMP this amiga.

The Thread/YouTube would have a interesting subject:

[Classic Amiga2000 - w Amiga Monitor - Mouse - Keyboard] [8088 Bridge board XT-PC - 512k, Math Co-Processor, BB - 5.25" Floppy] [8bit RS232 Serial Card ]  [ Lo-Tech 8bit ISA-IDE-Adpater <-> 60GB IDE Drive ] [WD1002-27x-8Bit-HD-Controler <-> 32 MB - MFM Octagon 320 Hard Drive] [Amiga 1010 3.5" External-Floppy] and a  [GOTEK Floppy Emulator]

did I miss anything?

Might be a good subject for a Ebay Auction....(but better to sell the MFM-drive/Controller separately)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 06, 2017, 11:10:19 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821616
I have to thank Pat to suggesting the ISA-IDE-Adapter, it might prove more useful than originally planned.

I've ordered one myself, you are not the only guy with data to be mined out of magnetic storage archives. :)

Quote from: wbrejnia;821616
I you suggested the Gotek drive.  Well I found one here locally for a good price and it should arrive any day. Beige to match the A2000 Case.  Flashed and ready for the Amiga.

Sometimes they need a little extra attention to make them "TRUE" Amiga floppy drives. More specifically, the RESET pin needs connecting or some stuff just won't load.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 06, 2017, 04:07:26 PM
MFM Partition Information Restored [Using correct sequence of steps & some Luck]

This is hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

(* I am NO EXPERT on filesystems/disks by any means *)

I experimented
on a 2nd spare system (creating Dos and Amiga Partitions, destroying them, and restoring successfully),
then hacked multiple times
as below on the MFM disk (corrupted with read errors) once I had confidence I could get an Partial Disk Image copy of the HD Data.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically my Eye's got Blurry and my Brain got cloudy trying to figure out everything about MBR's, Filesystems and many tools like Norton, etc..

I knew my MFM Hard drive had two partitions (DOS & AMIGA) from that Lucky 1 time it picked up (via ADISK).  
So I also had the Start/End sectors and Size of each Parition.
 I also had the Physical Characteristics of my Hard drive.

I kind of understand DOS Filesystem, but was concerned that AMIGAdos was different, so this helped http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p6

AmigaDOS HardDIsk filesystem is A RIGID DISK BLOCK File system like FAT-16 is to DOS.  (Amiga Floppies are different)

What Appears to be theory (since I never found it), is that the ASCII characters "RDSK" (capital)are in the first 4 bytes of the Partition.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I did to restore the MFM drives patrition tables entries could have been possibly done with Norton or other tools, but I got tired
and took a chance....going past that "ADISK" screen that I feared...
(I always rebooted the Amiga PC "Not hitting any key to proceed.
[which is what you should always do to prevent a MBR overwrite on the HD]


** THIS BELOW is not a recommendation to anyone trying to restore a partition and get their Filesystem back.
This just happen to work for me since my Filesystem is corrupted and only chance of getting data is from a Physical Disk Image SCAN Copy **
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/330/32746352865_71ea1a2542_b.jpg)

The above steps worked (partitions were in place).  Reboot put things back to a corrupted disk thus not a readable MBR.

Thus.., I  learned my Filesystem is corrupt (but data there) since DOS still would not load the MBR and Partitions (fdisk would not pick up partition, adisk would be a hit and miss).  Norton DiskEditor could see data.

I did that risky step since I knew I could SCAN the Physical Disk to get contents, and from Practice I learned that Changing Partition tables doesn't destroy data, or their structure

(ie You can change Partitions (Manually), loose File sytem, change Partitions back, and filesystem comes back), basically what Norton DISKTOOL Rescue disk does.

SO my next step,
is copy off the DISK IMAGE (see What I can recover [files, or raw ASCII text] using a FASTER BETTER COMPUTER)

And then LOW LEVEL FORMAT THE MFM DRIVE (see what happens, ie Bad Sectors, Re-Parition, Format and Install DOS / Workbench).

If 2nd Partition Image (AmigaDos) Copy is good, I will attempt to copy back on MFM Drive after Low Level Format (Another option is another drive, if the MFM drive continue to get errors (after low level Format) DUE to age).
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 07, 2017, 11:11:34 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821525
Raffaele, I'm not expert (YET), but if you have having boot problems, have you set the IDE drive Partition to Active, and installed  Bootstrap code?

If I remember well I used Ranish because I wanted to install Linux as second OS on my Pentium 266 MHz and I resized partitions giving any a different identifier.

Some went wrong with Windows partition but I managed to solve it.

Now it had been passed more than 20 years. I do not remember if I rebuild FAT table or I need to enter the cylinders/sectors/head where it started phisically the Windows partition that hard disk electronic assumed it should start at another position.
I used mainly Ranish and another tool I forgot the name. But I did it... All with my bare knowledge of MBR and Fat problems with the risk of loosing all my data. ;-)

If I remember well elder versions of Ranish had more features for imposing DOSType hex in the start sectors of the HDD and for tricking DOS where partition had to start. It was potentially very dangerous for non-expert users, but very useful.

I wonder what could happen if you put your MFM HD Controller on a Linux Machine and starting play with it with modern tools like GPartEd and KDE Partition Tool, or using a Linux Rescue CD from a Windows Machine... Sure they could give you the hint if patition is out of its cyl, secs original bounduaries.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 07, 2017, 08:42:51 PM
Found the Official Corporate "Active @ Disk Image" Site with Freeware version 7.0.4.

http://www.disk-image.com/download.htm

I grabbed a copy before Software like this becomes hard to come by.

I'm actually in the process downloading/installing all kinds of tools (in the Play-PC Hard Drive)

"File Recovery Image Scanner"
"A Hex/ASCII Viewer/Editor"
"Image Maker"
"Norton Disk Doctor Suite"
"Ranish Partition Manager"
"GPart DOS Version"
"...etc"


I thinking if making this Amiga/ PC a really nice Data Recovery LAB. (Just for fun).

I'm building up the IDE Hard Disk with a DOS6.2 Partition, that I'll be able to Pop Into the Amiga/PC with the ISA/IDE adapter and Amiga PC should just boot up ready with everything in place.

Much faster than doing the installs thru the 8088 Bridge board PC.

My Doomsday clock is ticking on making the AmigaPC boot off a Hard Drive (setup).
The 5.25" disks are starting to fail.  A few won't even re-format anymore.
Currently without a 5.25" DOS boot disk the Amiga PC can't boot.

I bet my decades old 3.5" Amiga PC disk are the same.
Some of the games I have are not available for download (C) .
Plus some of the Classic Floppy Based ADF games, can't run of OS/HD (maybe there is a way).
Thus the justification for the Gotek Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 08, 2017, 12:50:30 AM
Yes, if you had access to SATA, IDE, SCSI, and MFM/RLL controllers, BB Amiga would indeed be a very handy tool for accessing data on any old hard drives. With a Mac emulator added and a Mac floppy drive too if you wanted a "complete" solution.

The tricky part is assembling the software suite needed for such a purpose, but I think you've got most of that already by now. :)

If you do go that route, I daresay you will have an easy to use backup of the software suite, for completely resetting the system in between archive jobs. ;) It will save you an awful lot of work in the future.

For the moment, getting the data off of YOUR floppies and hard disk is the priority. After that, you can sit back and consider your next move.

Quote from: wbrejnia;821729
I bet my decades old 3.5" Amiga PC disk are the same.

They should be in better condition than the 5.25 High Density disks. First, the magnetic layer on them is twice as thick. Second, they have a dust cover built in to keep out dust and smoke particles. Even a partial read of a disk is useful, somebody else might have an incomplete ADF, and between the two incomplete sets, a complete set of data can be reborn.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Plaz on February 08, 2017, 01:39:50 AM
Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 08, 2017, 02:13:47 AM
Quote from: Plaz;821744
Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

Yes, I have heard very good things about Spinrite. DOS utility for extracting data from damaged drives. Was very useful a few years back at my local Hackspace, when an old PC drive that controlled a CNC lathe failed. I had completely forgotten about it!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 03:50:59 AM
Quote from: Plaz;821744
Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz
Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 03:59:08 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821742

For the moment, getting the data off of YOUR floppies and hard disk is the priority. After that, you can sit back and consider your next move.
Yes, I made backups of all important stuff.  Onto Hard drive, and USB.
Even started copying good DOS stuff off the 486 my friend lent me (he want's it back at the end)

Also made duplicates of every important (ADF) Floppy. Some labelled "DO NOT USE" and put away.  Like Original Amiga Install disks, WB1.2, etc

But this just arrived today from the Local Seller.  THE GOTEK :)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/423/32622247092_241623ebf1_b.jpg)

Ad was all ready to pop into Amiga.  Came with 4 screws, and a jumper.

The USB stick was included and has one ADF file on it.

I never thought about the GOTEK much.  Thought it was a READ ONLY device to play games (and you write to USB via another download computer).  

But now I'm thinking, maybe you can write to it too, and it write to USB.
That could be useful for now.  
Till I get the IDE drive in (Keeping fingers crossed the BB works, since Awrite,Aread didnt work)
And I wonder if the "Awrite,Aread" is block till a Hard Drive appears on the BB PC Side.
I read that "AUTOBOOT" is automatiically disabled on Bridgbeboard, if a Hard Drive is detected on Amiga Side.

NO MANUAL, but I guess I'll find plenty out there.
Not putting in till I know what exactly to do (Don't want to connect the power or cable wrong and blow it up, or A2000 Floppy connector)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 04:09:21 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821742
Yes, if you had access to SATA, IDE, SCSI, and MFM/RLL controllers, BB Amiga would indeed be a very handy tool for accessing data on any old hard drives. With a Mac emulator added and a Mac floppy drive too if you wanted a "complete" solution.
Pat, I'm not planning of starting some kind of Data Recovery business.
Just for fun and this project.

But going thru my boxes of disk I did find some good stuff.
Two sets of ORIGINAL 3.5" Windows 3.11 Install disks.  I'm officially licensed now. :)
I used it to install W311 on one partition of the Play PC.  Foundation is DOS 6.2.

Everything works for Win3.11 but the PS2 mouse, that same mouse works on same computer when I run Win95 (so drivers, or motherboard compatibility/BIOS issue).  Pulled off a mouse driver from that 486, it didn't work.  

Not important.

 I got to do the MFM DISK IMAGE BACKUP and am waiting for the ISA/IDE Adapter, so I can dump (one FULL COMPLETE IMAGE) onto IDE drive, instead of split up onto multiple floppies.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 04:24:47 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821750
Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.
Found a site with lots of DOS DISK UTILITIES.

http://ibm-pc.org/utilities/hdd/hdd.htm

 (Spinrite has gone windows,many gens ago,  and no longer has any old legacy DOS stuff,  I'd even pay for a DOS version if it saved me time doing manually)

I'm getting a bit sensitive for virus, tojans, etc  (Dont' want all my efforts ruined with one download, and have to start again from copies)

So I have a 2nd IDE drive, that is a clone of my PlayPC.  I install things on that Clone first.
Yeah, I have to Swap Ribbon cable and reboot, but better than losing or corrupting work.

If I have time, I'm thinking of looking into a Dual Boot Loader.  Never played with stuff like this before.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 04:46:27 AM
[ Productivity issue with PLAY PC [DOS, Windows3.1, and XP]

I'm chugging along with the Multi-Purpose Play PC setup.  It does the job.

But I'm doing all these download/transfer via Floppy since it's DOS and Win3.1.

I wish I could at least have USB like when I boot the PLAY PC with WinXP.

I work like this
[DESKTOP[PC] for Download onto USB]
[Read USB in Play PC(XP), Copy to Floppy]
[Reboot PLAY PC-1(DOS), and copy Floppy to Hard Drive, install, Try SW for no Virus/trojan/fake]
[Reboot PLAY PC-2(DOS), and install final tool for future use]
[Sometimes another Transfer to 5.25" Floppy, to bring to Amiga PC]

I guess there are no tools to get the USB port working on that PC when it's DOS or Win3.1 (might not be supported).

Was thinking of a FTP server on PLAY PC (in DOS) so I could network transfer from my desktop. But again DOS drivers for the Ethernet Port on the Motherboard.  And FTP server....

May not be worth the effort.  Most DOS tools fit into a floppy or two.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 04:59:45 AM
:) FUNNY :) on GOOGLE Searches Recently :)

This Thread has covers so unique/not common these days topics that some of my recent searches on google like "MFM drive" or other stuff, google brings up this thread near the top.

All good clean stuff happening here :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 08, 2017, 05:07:34 AM
** LAST DOS TOOL I need FOUND ( HEX ASCII Editor - HexIt ) **

http://mklasson.com/hexit.php
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 09, 2017, 03:03:49 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821755
(Spinrite has gone windows,many gens ago,  and no longer has any old legacy DOS stuff,  I'd even pay for a DOS version if it saved me time doing manually)
.

I think I have v5.0 of spinrite and its on a boot USB.   The frontend loader runs in windows where you can prepare boot media, but it boots with a dos replacement.  maybe pc dos. or something.  

Im not sure if MFM drives are supported anymore.  

Best to direct message author on twitter - https://twitter.com/sggrc
He still runs his weekly podcast - Security Now.    
He's pretty old school so you may be able to offer pointers for PC side of things.

Spinrite isnt like a tradiational data recovery tool, its more of a brute force rewrite/correction tool.   If you have bitrot, spinrite will rewrite the data so its has a stronger magnetic signature on the disk.   it might be able to fix obvious partition table issues perhaps.    If there is mechnical issues, then spinrite could make issues worse.

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 09, 2017, 03:40:56 AM
DISK Tools [ Trials - Summary ]

So I've had the most tedious computer experience of my life.

I'm mean I love building computers, and trying software, but not this way.

I downloaded and tried every DOS tool I could find that appeared remotely useful.

Obviously the big names like Spinrite, Disk Image, Ranish & Norton Disk Doctor were first trials, but I tried a few others too.

The painful and time consuming part was the downloading, media transfers, testing on one computer, another ,etc

At the end it had to be a DOS tool that would work on my Bridgeboard 8088 DOS machine, and also usable to experiment on the 486 and other PC's I had.

I ran into many issues.  Memory limitations, Motherboard BIO issues, DiskCache, DoubleSpace,  even graphics limitation on the 8088 PC and the other computer I was using.  

I may have more options when the ISA/ESA adapter arrives, but I highly doubt I'll get that working in the 486AT host without a Floppy Controller.

I am planning for the worst case scenario that the RLL Drive will only be usable in my Amiga/Bridgeboard/8088 PC with a 720K 3.5" flopppy.  
Having a working ISA/ESA adapater with IDE drive will just lessens the number of steps and speed things up.

The end result is I'll have a complete image of my Hard Drive (whatever is readable), and then I can do many things, like Low Level Format the RLL Drive, etc, etc


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm no expert, but I learned a lot.  If you are reading this to attept these steps, use this information at your own risk, and practice first on another computer and disk
.

SO NORTON (disk edit) is the only tool that will work on the Amiga 8088 PC.
And it can do it all, including the next phase which will be a possible restoration back on the re-formatted RLL drive.

Here is how.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/271/32413223220_8ee566dcf0_b.jpg)

(A)  Even though the Logic disk is not readable, you selection  the PHYSICAL did OBJECT OPTION in Diskedit to view the Hard Disk.

(B) With the Object Navigator, you can jump to any location on the Hard disk.  Important locations are the MBR's of the Partitions, if there is more than one.  

(C) To prepare a limited dump (depending on what media size you have) you can select a starting point and # of sectors to dump

(D) You can write the DUMP/WRITE to a "FILE" on any media you have access to

** CAUTION ***

DO NOT select, Clusters, or Sectors, or Physical Sectors
 since that would actually write to you media in those locations,
and that will corrupt your media destination (ie Hard Drive, Floppy, USB, etc)

** WARNING**


(E) ** SELECT "To a File..."  only **

(F) If you are chunking your dumps, name the file in some logical naming convention so you know what each dump is (for later merging and reconstruction)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for in may case where I have a HARD disk with two partition, First DOS and 2nd AMIGA, I've played and come up with something that helps for both the dump spiltting and the restoration.

In my case, I no longer have a readable MBR or any partition info (readable) by any tool that I used.  Perhaps better tools once I transfer my dump to a better computer will help me more.

But I have that lucky one time capture of ADISK. Adisk shows me very closely where my two partitions start/end.



The Norton Disk Edit tool has different views.  ASCII will allows you too see text stored on the Physical disk, just like I found that work processor school paper I was looking for.

** THERE IS A SEARCH for TEXT Feature that Scan the drive, so using search for key word that you now might be on there, save time going Sector, by Sector to find goodies **

You can also go into PARTITION view, which if you are in the correct location, breaks up the complex PARTITION INFO bits (not bytes) into readable Format.  

In WRITE MODE of DISKTOOL, you can change/adjust/correct those partition values. Which I plan to use eventually for a reconstruct attempt.

Notice the ADISK matches the DISK EDitor Partition view of SECTOR 0 of my PLAY PC.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2645/32670265931_582ee403a0_b.jpg)


So once I have my IMAGE, my ISA/IDE adapter, a copy of image on another computer to try other tools.  I'll play more.

But one attempt if possible after RE-FORMAT is I'll dump back the image, and use the know partition information, and MANUALLY write it back to attempt a disk recovery.

Not so much the First DOS partition which is badly corrupted, but the 2nd Amiga partition with appear to be totally readable from beginning to end.

The DOS partition I'll just make smaller, and install DOS after formatting the parition.
Smaller to have wiggle room for the Amiga Partition afterwards.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now one special mention as I tried all those tools one was Spinrite.

Too bad I can't use it on my Amiga PC, since it's quite powerful with intelligent analysis, missing bit reconstruction, and probably much more than I know.  

I couldn't get it working with all the setups I had (the DOS version).  {many reasons}

BUT...with each DOS version the is a SPININFO program that is the includes all the documentation.  Lots of explanation of different drive types, how the work, how spinrite analyzes and fixes things.

But for me the BEST FIND with SPINRITE 3 is the complete catalog and specs of every Hard Drive Manufactured at the time.

AND A COMPLETE list of KALOK drives :)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/772/31950409154_7ea9311de5_c.jpg)


I have played with all above, in a limited way.  I still have to do the big complete transfer.
Then I'm safe.

A whole 32 MB worth. :)

Can't imagine trying to do this with my 500 GB Hard Drive. (on X number of 720K floppies) :(

SO Next Step is I wait for the ISA/IDE Adapter.  Tracking show's it getting closer.




Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 09, 2017, 06:52:20 AM
Quote from: darkage;821816
I think I have v5.0 of spinrite and its on a boot USB.   The frontend loader runs in windows where you can prepare boot media, but it boots with a dos replacement.  maybe pc dos. or something.  

Im not sure if MFM drives are supported anymore.  

Best to direct message author on twitter - https://twitter.com/sggrc
He still runs his weekly podcast - Security Now.    
He's pretty old school so you may be able to offer pointers for PC side of things.

Spinrite isnt like a tradiational data recovery tool, its more of a brute force rewrite/correction tool.   If you have bitrot, spinrite will rewrite the data so its has a stronger magnetic signature on the disk.   it might be able to fix obvious partition table issues perhaps.    If there is mechnical issues, then spinrite could make issues worse.

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!
I may reach out to Steve Gibson in some way.   Wonder if this RETRO/PC/HDD challenge I'm facing would tweak his interest his past, and the foundation of his company.  In that Info section of Version 3 it does say if there is a drive that Spinrite can't handle to contact the company  since they are interested.  Obviously this wouldn't be any advancement but just for nostalgia.

I actually think the Spinrite technology is ideal for my drive.  It's in good readable condition but maybe just lost an area of Magnetization.
 During my tool play one command line that was provided came with a HEAD PARK utility.  And since my bad sectors are all in the very low range (while rest of disk is ok), the head not parked could have cause the corruption.  Thus my thinking is a LOW level format would deallocate the few sectors and the rest of the drive would be fine (especially the Upper cylinders where the AmigaDOS partition is.  Maybe spinrite would have a way to directly deallocate the bad area, while keeping the rest (better than using the dumb Western Digital Low Level BIOS).

I did try the V3 of Spinrite that creates a FreeDOS boot disk.  To big for Amiga PC, but didn't work on the DOS/Win31 PC.

6.0 Spinrite version with USB won't work since the Amiga PC and even the 486 with the ISA slot don't have USB.  But I did try getting my WIN31/DOS pc (non ISA) working with USB for file transfers, and got really close.

This shows a DOS dual Driver trick to get USB on DOS.  
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046069/yes-usb-drivers-dos
It works up the point of USB recognized (label), and even assigns a E: drive to it, but then things don't work.  Could be my HW.

I just think I should wait till the ISA/IDE adapter comes.  As you mention I can change the address to not conflict.  If I can get the WD RLL controler in with a ISA/IDE-IDE drive, then I may be able to run Spinrite on the 486.

I won't need a USB or even a floppy.  I install DOS or a low gen version of windows on the Hard drive using any of my computers, and pop it in to the 486, DOS boot ready.  The work on the RLL drive, side by side.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 09, 2017, 07:14:08 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821821
I may reach out to Steve Gibson in some way. ...

I just think I should wait till the ISA/IDE adapter comes.  As you mention I can change the address to not conflict.  If I can get the WD RLL controler in with a ISA/IDE-IDE drive, then I may be able to run Spinrite on the 486.

I won't need a USB or even a floppy.  I install DOS or a low gen version of windows on the Hard drive using any of my computers, and pop it in to the 486, DOS boot ready.  The work on the RLL drive, side by side.

Sounds a good plan to me. :) It's been 20 years, waiting a few more days isn't going to make that much difference.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 09, 2017, 11:49:13 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821824
Sounds a good plan to me. :) It's been 20 years, waiting a few more days isn't going to make that much difference.
Pat, actually it's 35 years. Still no ISA/IDE in mail.

I know you recommended the ISA/IDE Adapter, and you ordered one too.
Do you actually have your working in a A2000 with bridgeboard (with a Flash card, IDE drive or both)?

I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?) and if I get AWRITE working, copy across from the Amiga PC to the AmigaOS, the copy to the Gotek Floppy which USB (I guess then I have to extract the Data from the ADF file on my Windows Workstation).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 09, 2017, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: darkage;821816
Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!

Quick question on the Gotek, since it came with no manual just that USB stick and an ADF file.  Maybe the manual is in the ADF (no idea yet).

I also dug around and found this recommended softward for managing Gotek images on PC.
http://www.ipcas.com/products/usb-floppy-emulator-fdd-to-udd.html

When I read that page, it say the Gotek for PC's support the FAT12 format a few 3.5", 5.25" format sizes.  
None of the specs say the 880K amiga file size.  

Does it just not mention the 880K since most people buy for PC, or was it customized for Amiga, and won't work on a PC.
I assume the person who sold it to me on Amazon did something like this  https://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/
So this Gotek won't work on a PC without reversing the Transformation to Amiga.

I am learning as much as possible to understand an not damage anything.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 10, 2017, 12:01:37 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821869
I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?).

Create blank .ADF within Winuae and then transfer over to USB if you need a blank virtual disk to copy stuff too or use  disk copying software with.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=62232

Yes the STM microcontroller onboard the Gotek is reflashed to handle Amiga format disks.     Its actually really simple to reflash, just needs a TTL to USB convertor.  I did mine took 10mins to do, using the website you listed.

You could buy one off aliexpress.com very cheap if you need a unmoddified one for your PC.  They are $18.50 USD
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 10, 2017, 12:32:14 AM
286 bridgeboard here if you need to upgrade :P

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?89538-Amiga-Parts-amp-Pieces-for-sale
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 10, 2017, 12:43:50 AM
Quote from: darkage;821874
286 bridgeboard here if you need to upgrade :P

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?89538-Amiga-Parts-amp-Pieces-for-sale
As if I need to spend more on this Clunker.  Fun Clunker but more Clunky on the PC side.
I could use a replacement keyboard but sold.

BTW. I took your advice and contacted Spinrite Sales email.  They replied that they handed over my email to Support.  I asked if I could get a copy of V1.0, since that version was Old DOS, and designed to fix RLL/MFM drives.  
Waiting for a 2nd reply.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 10, 2017, 01:40:40 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821875
BTW. I took your advice and contacted Spinrite Sales email.  They replied that they handed over my email to Support.

The GRC sales email is monitored by Steves assistant.   Normally get faster replies if DM (direct message) via Twitter.   see how you go.   He still have a old school NNTP server which you can access.  Some people still monitor it.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 10, 2017, 03:50:49 AM
Quote from: darkage;821878
The GRC sales email is monitored by Steves assistant.   Normally get faster replies if DM (direct message) via Twitter.   see how you go.   He still have a old school NNTP server which you can access.  Some people still monitor it.
Funny, even though I'm an I person, I've never gotten into twitter at all, so don't much about it.  I assume DM is like PM on this forum.
Thanks, I'll look into that option.  But I don't want to bother Steve.  Let's see what support comes back with.   I told them I'd even buy a copy of V1.0 if it works on my setup.  Why not pay, if I can restore that RLL drive, we all know it's worth a few pennies.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 10, 2017, 03:57:09 AM
SIMPLE idea to get as many files off "Image Dump" as possible. (UNDELETE)

I was thinking about a past experience when that Ransomware got all my Storage Sever Photo's.
  I got everything back from my backups, but was only missing stuff that I CUT-AND-PASTED off my SD cards for the vacation.

I used some simple UNDELETE program (ton's available) and I ran the program on all my semi-empty SD cards.  I got many photo's back that I thought I didn't have anymore.  
It filled the short gap that wasn't on my backup system.  Not everything since the SD cards had some new photos written to them, but enough.

So once I have the image copy, running an simple UNDELTE program will give me a peek at what on the Image.

There must be some Amiga Program that was writen to do the same.
 I read that Amiga file structure was designed well, to handle file corruption and undelete quite well.

** THE REASON for this Quick Peek effort is What if the Amiga Partition only has workbench and replaceable programs, plus a few files, and DOS just has DOS boot **
** We are talking a 32MB disk for two OS's (how much can there really be on there??)
** Why waste all this time on razor sharp DOUBLE-OS Filesystem recovery. If nothing much there, go for LL format the hard drive, re-partition, and re-install                          **
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 10, 2017, 07:04:32 AM
Found an interesting SW repository (WinWorld).

Has every imaginable program from the Stone age.
Doesn't look like a piracy site at first glance.  Even has a message describing the Policy on Copyright material.
I always test on my Play PC to make sure it's nothing is virus loaded.

Found a section with DOS did recovery, etc program, that should fit on my floppy for the Amiga PC.

https://winworldpc.com/library/search?q=norton

Plus there are many DOS application, retro stuff that I can load on my Turtle 8088 PC once I have a working hard drive.  Assuming it freeware/abandonware and no longer copyright.

EVEN a VERSION of WINDOWS 1.0 that was made to run on an 8088, 320KB Ram, 720KB Disk Drive,  on DOS 3.x !!!
 Got to try that on the Amiga Bridgeboard.

 https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-10/101
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 10, 2017, 10:31:56 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;821869
Pat, actually it's 35 years. Still no ISA/IDE in mail.

I know you recommended the ISA/IDE Adapter, and you ordered one too.
Do you actually have your working in a A2000 with bridgeboard (with a Flash card, IDE drive or both)?

I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?) and if I get AWRITE working, copy across from the Amiga PC to the AmigaOS, the copy to the Gotek Floppy which USB (I guess then I have to extract the Data from the ADF file on my Windows Workstation).

The short answer is no, I didn't order an ISA/ISE convertor - I ordered an IDE/SD card convertor. For A1200/A500 (once A500 it has an IDE port on a TerrileFire accelerator, hopefully).

You have a few options for what you store the data on, but the reason for the convertor is - you posted pictures of lots of IDE drives and wanted to know how to update the RLL hard drive...

... using a drive like that for storing the recovered data was best bang per buck for you. That's why I suggested.

Crossed wires on my post "I've got one too" I think. :confused:

Yes, using Gotek is yet another way of storing recovered data, and that is what you need before biting the bullet and getting down to recovering the data - a solid way of storing the recovered data that you know is going to work.

Best place to browse Amiga utilities like undelete is aminet. It goes back a long way in time;-

http://aminet.net
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 11, 2017, 02:35:57 AM
Unexpected Surprise is going to make weekend Fun.

I was watching Tracking and it still shows en-route.

But a trip to the mailbox found this....

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/611/32676226822_d232a5d362_o.jpg)

I actually thought I would setup the Gotek to try the Split Data Dumps, since my expectation it would arrive sometime next week.

This is way better!!!  (Keeping Fingers crossed it works).

I'll admit, I'm a bit scared and worried.  Things haven't gone well lately with my luck.  Last luck was the ribbon cable fix, and the Project Paper find.

I will be taking my time, and triple checking things every step of the way.

Really glad I bought the assembled and tested version, not the kit.

THIS IS A BIG HOPE!!  And possibly a Game Changer!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 11, 2017, 10:29:08 PM
PREPARING THE IDE Drive for ISA/IDE Adapter

So I pick out my Smallest IDE drive (60B) Segate DiamondMax 9.
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/181371en?language=en_US

Quickly learned a few things.

- DOS 6.2 doesn't recognize this drive since was formatted NTFS for WinXP
- Notice the 60GB drive is only showing 32GB raw (Fix with the Capacity Limiting Jumper change, [back to 60 GB) )

Now to prepare the drive for the Amiga PC I did some reading on DOS 6.2.
The FAT filesystem will be limited to 2GB per Partition, 4 Partions Max, for 8GB if only using  DOS 6.2

But my plan is to go with the 4th Partition to be Amiga OS, so can use muc more than 2GB (ie the rest of the DISK)

To prepare for the image insert (DOS/AMIGA), I thought it would be ideal to have the drive CLEAN (no data).  

So I found "Disk Wipe" utility to fill drive with "ZEROS".
http://www.diskwipe.org/
DiskWipe also allowed me to make the Final Conversion from FAT32, to FAT so that my WinXP pc would recognize it properly.

Summary of the steps done below:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2758/32692229392_95e640c731_b.jpg)

I found it fascinating.  Kind of a trip back in time to see old Filesystems (FAT12) that were designed back then, not compatible with future filesystems (FAT32,NTFS,etc) developed afterwards.

NEXT STEPS it Partition things up (2GB,2GB,AMIGA), install DOS and pop the drive on the ISA/ADAPTER, and into the Amiga Bridgeboard ISA Slot.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 05:48:38 AM
Quick update (HD All Ready, next ISA/IDE Adapter)

1) Maxtor HardDisk partitioned and formatted
2) (C: 2GB) Partition [ DOS 6.2 installed ] (* Active *)
3) (D: 2GB) Partition [ Amiga PC Bridgeboard Utilies copy ]

A) The Drive Booted nicely to DOS6.2 on PLAY PC
c) Drive D: Partition Visible with files.
B) Put back the CAPACITY LIMIT (jumper) on the Hard Drive to bring down to 32GB (in case problems with 8088 Bridbgeboard PC - BIOS)

Time to crack open the ISA/IDE Adapter box and learn install steps.

I found a brand new IDE Ribbon Cable in one of my old motherboard boxes.

NEXT STEPS:

- Remove the ISA-8bit-WD-Controller / RLL Hard Drive from Amiga
- Install the ISA-IDE-Adapter and the Seagate Maxtor IDE HardDrive.

Yup.  I am bit scared on next steps..
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 07:34:00 AM
ISA/IDE ADAPTER - (IDE HD) NOT WORKING!!

First Time I inserted the ISA/IDE Adapater with IDE Drive, LAUNCH PC, an Message "Cannot Make SIDECAR Signals" came up.  I also noted the 5.25" floppy drive LED didn't come on as usual.

So I switched the jumpers (J1/J2) on the ISA/IDE Adapter from [C800h] to [D800h] and the next PC boot everything went fine.   Booted from 5.25" DOS Floppy.

But no C: Drive.


FDISK says "No Fixed Disk".


ADISK say's "Fixed Disk Read/Write Error"


Too bad.  But I'm not giving up yet
.  It could be HARD drive Jumpers (MASTER/SLAVE).  (Capacity Limit Jumper).

Possibly Ribbon cable, since I never tested this one. (I had to change the original cable since it was one of the 80 wire kind, and the was a blocked pin on it).

Darn, could have used some first-time-works luck.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 07:49:02 AM
hhhmmmmm.

Even that cable I used, is a 80 pin not 40 (But it doesn't have a pin block like the others).

I just read up that the 80 pin cables have grounding pairs (for higher speed) and are not true IDE cables.  Hope I didn't fry the ISA/IDE card.  Probably not.

I don't have a proper 40 Pin IDE cable, but I think that 486 should have one.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 08:07:53 AM
ISA/IDE Adapater Still not working!

I found a proper 40 Pin IDE cable used for CD ROM (tested that it works with IDE drive on PLAY-PC)

But still no disk's recognized on AMIGA-PC.

TIME TO TRY ISA/IDE Adapater in 486 (if it works then may mean not compatible with AMIGA-PC)  (if it doesn't who knows.  Hard drive jumper?  Not a good adapter (but tested by seller).

Must try 486 and see what happens.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 09:00:21 AM
No luck, I tried everything..  (ISA/IDE Adapter doesn't work in AmigaPC or 486) (With ATA/IDE Drive and a True IDE DRIVE)

Doesn't work in 486.  What I mean is BIOS doesn't pick up the Hard drive.

Then I pulled out the True ISA Hard Drive out of 486 and put into AmigaPC with ISA/IDE controller card.  (NOTHING).

Wish I could prove the ISA/IDE Adapter works somewhere (what if it's bad).

I don't know what to do next.    But I will contact seller of ISA/IDE adapter, or the LO-tech Developer.

If nothing works, than back to PLAN A-  Slow Chunk Dump onto Floppies and LL-Format RLL-Hard Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 09:11:38 AM
Could this be the reason (why it doesn't work the 8088 Amiga PC)

The BIOS version on the ISA/IDE Adapater.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_8-bit_IDE_AdapterROM BIOS & BIOS Flashing


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 09:26:30 AM
[DIAGNOSTIC IDEA]

The only Ideal I have is one of the PC Norton Tools I tried shows the DOS OS system details and I believe interrupts.

If I put in the Western Digital Controller (which I know works on the AmigaPC) and see if the Tool picks it up.

Then I put in the ISA/IDE adapter and see if it is picked up.

No hard-drive needed for this comparison.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 12, 2017, 12:11:59 PM
Why don't you try making a new floppy disk installing FREEDOS on it? It is fully MS-DOS compatible but it sports real multitasking (not cooperative like MS-DOS), better text based command shell, supports 32bit design, and lots of advanced features including reading disks with advanced geometry.

[EDIT]

Question: I wonder inspecting Tools like Snoopdos from Amiga side what say about Bridgeboard card?

Also I will try moving files from an Amiga formatted disk in Amiga side to a PC formatted disk on PC floppy reader and vice-versa in order to check if they copy and move smooth from an environment to another (68000<->8088) or they arrive in someway corrupted in size and contents...
It could be a good test to check if Bridgeboard is fully functioning in trasferring data...
This is important to check indirectly if Jdisk a.k.a. JanusDisk command parameters starting from Amiga side pass directly to PCSide...
I know it is really empirical but it worths a try...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 12, 2017, 12:56:39 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822000
[DIAGNOSTIC IDEA]

The only Ideal I have is one of the PC Norton Tools I tried shows the DOS OS system details and I believe interrupts.

If I put in the Western Digital Controller (which I know works on the AmigaPC) and see if the Tool picks it up.

Then I put in the ISA/IDE adapter and see if it is picked up.

No hard-drive needed for this comparison.

As I said previously if I was in your shoes I had had inserted MFM controller on a modern PC with ISA bus cards  and had had run any Linux partitioning software like GPartED capable to detect multiple kinds of partition types and to check if they exceed their sectors bounduaries...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822001
Why don't you try making a new floppy disk installing FREEDOS on it? It is fully MS-DOS compatible but it sports real multitasking (not cooperative like MS-DOS), better text based command shell, supports 32bit design, and lots of advanced features including reading disks with advanced geometry.

[EDIT]

Question: I wonder inspecting Tools like Snoopdos from Amiga side what say about Bridgeboard card?

Also I will try moving files from an Amiga formatted disk in Amiga side to a PC formatted disk on PC floppy reader and vice-versa in order to check if they copy and move smooth from an environment to another (68000<->8088) or they arrive in someway corrupted in size and contents...
It could be a good test to check if Bridgeboard is fully functioning in trasferring data...
This is important to check indirectly if Jdisk a.k.a. JanusDisk command parameters starting from Amiga side pass directly to PCSide...
I know it is really empirical but it worths a try...
Are you saying YOU will try and do a Awrite/Aread?

Or I should?
I tried  before and it didn't work from PC Floppy to Amiga Floppy.  Or Amiga Floppy to PC Floppy. (I will try again)
SHOULD THAT WORK?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 07:07:51 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822003
As I said previously if I was in your shoes I had had inserted MFM controller on a modern PC with ISA bus cards  and had had run any Linux partitioning software like GPartED capable to detect multiple kinds of partition types and to check if they exceed their sectors bounduaries...
I did try putting in the WD MFM controller into my 486 with ISA slots. (Earlier)
It hangs the machine.
Even the ISA/IDE adpater hung it, till I changed the jumper.
I have to play with BIOS options.
But it's the conflict with two Hard Drive Controllers.
That PC doesn't have a Floppy Controller on Motherboard, so very limited.

I just need to do my RLL Drive copy the hard way.  Using Floppies.
Then LL format the Octacon RLL drive with COntroller BIOS.
If I get the drive to work, I'll have DOS on HD, Amiga OS on HD.
Things will get easier than living in Flopppy world.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 08:04:04 PM
SPLITTING THIS EFFORT in to [3 Projects+]

This is getting too complicated for this single thread.

Splitting this into 3 Projects (with 2 new threads)

1) This [PROJECT 1] The RLL Drive recovery
** Efforts will continue in this Thread *

2) [PROJECT 2] The Lo-tech ISA/IDE Adapter in AMIGA 2000
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=822026#post822026
** I contacted "Lo-tech" vendor for support **

3) [PROJECT 3] The Lo-tech ISA/IDE Adapter in 486 PC
** coming soon **
** I contacted "Lo-tech" vendor for support **

 4) [PROJECT 4] Possibly try the WD-MFM Controller/RLL Drive on the 486
*** Future *


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 08:38:21 PM
[SETUP SANITY TESTING]  PLAY-PC and two DRIVES ((** TEST IDE drive not working with ISA/IDE Adapter,  IDE Drive not working in XP PC) same cable.

I need to set some working baselines since too many unknown bits and pieces.

- So I put back the (TEST) IDE Drive back into the PLAY XP PC.
- I booted from floppy
- Drive is recognized just like before.

- Then I put in the TRUE IDE Drive from the 486 on the same IDE-CABLE
- Booted from same floppy
- DRIVE IS NOT recognized by (Motherboard BIO or by FDISK )

So there is something special/different about drives. Possibly the (TEST) IDE Drive.

I need to get this working before expecting the ISA/IDE adapter to work.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 09:09:20 PM
[SANITY TEST 2]  TEST IDE Drive NOW WORKING in 486

I setup the 486 with just the (original HDD/FD) Controller.

I cabled the 3.5" and 5.25" Floppy to the controller

1 Hooked up the TEST-IDE-Hard drive.

It took some fumbling with BIO (AutoRecognize HD) but I got it working.

Setups are picky.

Now I will try putting in the ISA/IDE controller into the 486 after getting a 2nd-TEST-HARD DRIVE Setup.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 09:57:28 PM
:) :)  GOT Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter WORKING (NO 486 Hang) and Recognized in 486 PC :) :)

It was tricky, but I basically tested all Drives separtely on the 486 HD Contrlloer

Making sure the cables were all correct (orientation and working)

But biggest advance was going into BIOS and (removing the Drives that were not there) and SAVING to BIOS

Then the 486 Booted, and you can see the LO-Tech Adapter IDE Bios Pick up.  

486 Boots from Floppy.

I didn't hook up any drives to Lo-Tech Adapter, since taking this one step at a time.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2706/32485735660_4c5514c5ea_z.jpg)


I learned that I have to take this in very small piece part steps.
Things are sensitive and dependant.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 10:09:10 PM
[ ANOTHER CLUE:   on TEST IDE/DRIVE   Format ]

While I have the TEST IDE/HD hooked up to the 486 Controller, I ran NOTON DOS on it.

Right away it picked up a problem.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3863/32024121664_00511cf9c5_o.jpg)

Don't exactly know what this mean, but I'm assuming my Formatting of the Drive using an more Modern XP computer created a DRIVE not support back in Legacy/Stone Age Days.

I need to parition and Format this drive the OLD way using OLD DOS etc.

Then I can possibly expect it to work on OLD DOS, OLD BIOS, and OLDER 8088 Bridgbeboard PC.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 12, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
NO matter what IDE-HARD disk I put on the ISA/IDE adapter, the ISA/IDE BIOS won't pick it up.

Hoping that Flash Card-Adapter when it arrives will get picked up (I ordered a local Large to Small IDE cable) should arrive very soon.

I think if I get over this hurdle, the ISA/IDE adapter will work in the AMIGA Bridgboard PC.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 12, 2017, 11:52:25 PM
What do you have hooked up to the lo-tech card ?

If its hdd, please note -

Hard Disk Device is Not Detected

Only hard disks supporting ATA-2 command set can be used.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_FAQ

Older IDE hard drives have more chance of working then later model IDEs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA#EIDE_and_ATA-2

If not already I would test with a CF card attached.


It might be more productive if you can provide less posts that are rich in straight to the point information.   I find it hard to follow this mega thread with what you have done and not, etc.   You could probably create a book from the thread :P

Also I would make an account at the following forum, http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?3-Technical-Support

they might be able to help with PC/XT side of things ?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 13, 2017, 01:02:28 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822021
Are you saying YOU will try and do a Awrite/Aread?

Or I should?
I tried  before and it didn't work from PC Floppy to Amiga Floppy.  Or Amiga Floppy to PC Floppy. (I will try again)
SHOULD THAT WORK?


Yes. it should transfer files flawlessly!

Try some gif images, simple text documents and maybe an AmigaDOS command like DIR or EDIT, verifying if it works again when copied back into Amiga side.

Text Document Files obviously must be with CR+LF (CarriageReturn + LineFeed) to be read by Text readrs on PC Side.

I do not remember name of DOS command to use to complish this task... But yes! it should be ARead and AWrite commands.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 13, 2017, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822036
[ ANOTHER CLUE:   on TEST IDE/DRIVE   Format ]

While I have the TEST IDE/HD hooked up to the 486 Controller, I ran NOTON DOS on it.

Right away it picked up a problem.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3863/32024121664_00511cf9c5_o.jpg)

Don't exactly know what this mean, but I'm assuming my Formatting of the Drive using an more Modern XP computer created a DRIVE not support back in Legacy/Stone Age Days.

I need to parition and Format this drive the OLD way using OLD DOS etc.

Then I can possibly expect it to work on OLD DOS, OLD BIOS, and OLDER 8088 Bridgbeboard PC.


Yes it is a just a simple formatting issue originated by modern parameters settings.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 13, 2017, 02:45:47 PM
Quote from: darkage;822039
What do you have hooked up to the lo-tech card ?

If its hdd, please note -

Hard Disk Device is Not Detected

Only hard disks supporting ATA-2 command set can be used.

https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_ISA_CompactFlash_Adapter_FAQ

Older IDE hard drives have more chance of working then later model IDEs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA#EIDE_and_ATA-2

If not already I would test with a CF card attached.


It might be more productive if you can provide less posts that are rich in straight to the point information.   I find it hard to follow this mega thread with what you have done and not, etc.   You could probably create a book from the thread :P

Also I would make an account at the following forum, http://www.vcfed.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?3-Technical-Support

they might be able to help with PC/XT side of things ?

Yes, I am going to start making my Future posts more simple
.

The details were good at the beginning when things were going well.
Some of the history of information is quite useful to me.
But my posts have certainly spiralled out of hand.

I did check the Ebay Listing where I bought the Adapter.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Assembled-Tested-Working-Lo-tech-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-IDE-for-8-Bit-PCs-/282312406702?hash=item41bb2176ae:g:9HYAAOSwL7VWoBxq

It does say clearly it specifically made for Flash Cards.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 13, 2017, 03:04:45 PM
Quick update.

I spent a lot of time hoping to not have to do the Chunk Dump of the RLL drive manually, by trying a ton of software.

 Basically nothings works on this 8088.

Testdisk was my last hope. But it wanted a 386 CPU, and didn't work.
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step

So got myself setup with Norton Disk Edit and bunch of floppies.
It allows me to dump 1000 Sectors at a time (512 bytes per sector), which fit nicely into a 760K formatted 3.5" disk (writing to my External drive off the Bridbgeboard PC).

At the beginning (first 7 sectors) where the Hard Drive is corrupt, I learned when a Sector read failure occurs i(DiskEdit Tool) fills the missing locations with "00" which is perfect. (Everything is spaced properly in the image file)

It's working well, since the "Write-Image-to-Disk File" Tracks the last Sector I dump and next file dump starts off at next sector (1000 Sectors at a time).

Painfully slow, but working.  I've done 10 dumps, 60 more to go.
Even slower since after ever few dumps, my old floppies die, so I picked out some of the best I have.

Once done, I'll concatenate all the Mini Image dumps into One or two Image files (2 images: for both PC & Amiga Partitions), or (1 image: for the whole ALOK disk).

With these images on a Modern PC, I'll have many tools to try and extract the files.  I can try many time without risk to original copy.

Either way, since I can't get the WD-RLL Controller to work in my 486 (which limits my tools to the 8088), I'll do the Low Level Format of the RLL drive, and see what happens (Hoping a reallocation of good/bad sectors restores the drive. I will be a few sectors short).

If I manage to re-format the drive clean, then I'll have choices.

1) Build up a new setup (DOS and Amiga)
2) Do above but try to dump the Backed up Images back.
3) Somethings else

Stay tuned.  I am running mini dumps, every time I pass by the computer.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 13, 2017, 06:11:13 PM
LUCKY BREAK ( 2nd IDE Drive in 486 PC Picked up by ISA/IDE Adapter)  ** Low-Tech Adapter Working with an Hard Drive. **

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3761/32502385970_bf8a341ef2.jpg)

I got tired waiting for these Mini Image Dumps, so I thought I'd try the 2nd IDE Drive in that OLD 486.  It's only 250MB so thought maybe older IDE-2.

I hooked it up to IDE/ISA Adapter and it picked it up.

Now I got to try in the AMIGA Bridgeboard PC.

If it works, so will FLASH CARD  (( And I can do a Full Image Dump!! ))

If it doesn't, then  :( Again.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 13, 2017, 07:32:11 PM
I can't seem to get Two-In-A-Row lucky breaks.

The Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter on first try DOES NOT work in the Amiga.

I tried (adisk) (fdisk) even (Norton DiskEdit - Physical Disk)

NO FIXED DRIVE FOUND!  (Weird, why wouldn't it work)

If I don't resolve this, then CF won't work, and thus back to FLOPPY Disk Image dump.

...and I am left with One Last and only HOPE (Low Level Format of the RLL Drive).

(The only last ditch effort I have is switch the Address Jumper on the Lo-Tech Adapter, but last time the Bridgeboard complained about Signals)

Darn!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 13, 2017, 07:45:21 PM
NOPE, ISA/ESA Adapter BIO ROM Jumper setting change doesn't do anything.

This is getting to be too painful and time consuming, possible another disappointment on the horizon.

I have no more strength left do do 40 more Floppy disk Image Transfers.

Going to think about it a bit and I'll just LL-Format the RLL drive.
With my luck it won't work.

We'll see, my luck has flipped flopped during this whole thing.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 12:14:20 AM
I did some more testing but no luck.  Tried to un-partition the Drive in case it needed to be partitioned on the AmigaPC.

As I prepared for a WD BIO Low-Level Format, an email came in from Steve Pierce of Lo-tech.

He asked for details which I sent so I'm waiting for his reply.

Holding of on format, and re-started Chunk Image Backups each time I have a moment to flip-flop disks.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 04:44:41 AM
Quote from: darkage;822039
It might be more productive if you can provide less posts that are rich in straight to the point information.   I find it hard to follow this mega thread with what you have done and not, etc.  
You could probably create a book from the thread
:P

I couldn't resist :) ....( if any of you don't like this bad attempt at humor, just PM me, the image can be removed)

Wasting time waiting and flipping floppies.  4 or 5 more to go.
Then I try the Low Level Format..

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2148/32851693006_557a227aea.jpg)


I am stopping at the end of the First DOS partition for the IMAGE DUMP.

Too painfully slow when I had my mind on a single dump.

What if it doesn't work.  This way I'll be half disappointment or half happy.
I go the thesis, I have one image to attempt the hack recovery.

And maybe I can move forward on something more interesting like the Gotek or a working RLL Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 07:32:07 AM
ALL DOS Image Dumps Done!!   Forget the Amiga Partition.

When I was reading up for the Format I came across the Jumper Setting of the WD Controller.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2184/32769358641_914a87c4eb.jpg)
http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT

Playing with these might enable me to put the Controller into the 486 without it hanging due to Other Controller Conflict.  
(Wish I payed attention to this last time I read the manual...Should be in the Dummy Book)


Plus I don't really know what to put into these (two) the LL-Format parameters (rrr ppp).
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/664/32078493323_127765966f.jpg)

Must read up before I destroy the Drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 14, 2017, 10:08:44 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822099
I couldn't resist :) ....( if any of you don't like this bad attempt at humor, just PM me, the image can be removed)

Wasting time waiting and flipping floppies.  4 or 5 more to go.


haha should really create an ebook and sell on Amazon :P  

lots of forgotten knowledge there.  

only 4 / 5 floppies, ha I use to go to a monthly computer meet, with my a500 and I would always have 100 to 200 blank floppies on hand.   would normally be 7pm until 1am at the meet.   didnt have a 2nd floppy drive, so lots of disk swapping.    

those were the days.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 14, 2017, 03:34:00 PM
YAY! I am on the Dummy Book! ^_^
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 14, 2017, 03:49:10 PM
I found this DOS Tool from SEAGATE called SEATOOLS. It performs various types of checking disk surface tests, including "acoustic" one! WOW!

It is capable to mark bad sectors, so then you can perform simply a Format on it.

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/201271en

BTW!

Are you perfectly sure sectors are bad? I still believe that something mangled Table of Partitions making disk believe partition started outside its bounduaries.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 14, 2017, 03:59:51 PM
Infos on Old Hard Disk Formatting:

http://ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/misc/drivetyp.txt


(This is very interesting as refers to internal controller CMOS that have various types HDDS definition it it and maybe CUSTOM Option also defining the one that users mounted. If you alter that value, you are unable to read partitions as if you entered valid but alien geometry parameters.
I remember I encountered such a problem once on a PC by a Peecee friend.)

What is inside a MBR:

http://www.cgsecurity.org/STDMBR.htm

Other infos:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-39928.html


The Hard Drive Bible:

https://archive.org/stream/CSC_Hard_Drive_Bible_Edition_8_1996/CSC_Hard_Drive_Bible_Edition_8_1996_djvu.txt


Two great utilities: Disk technician and SpinRite!
Spinrite seems to be still active developed, or at least it was sometimes ago!


Disk Technician infos (check where to download it)

https://winworldpc.com/product/disk-technician-gold


SpinRite! I read of it. It is great software or so it seems!

https://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm


And in the end, if any other system fails:

http://www.hirensbootcd.org/200-ways-to-revive-a-hard-drive/1/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 06:08:12 PM
Raffaele,

One of those links was very useful. (This piece of info)

MFM (ST412 interface)  Finally, the MFM drives and their associated drive types are next.  If the internal drive type table lists the exact geometry, great. If  not, then check to see if a "Custom" or "User Definable" CMOS option  is available.  Also, some AT 16-bit MFM controllers provide an  onboard BIOS which will allow the unique geometry of the drive to be  dynamically configured (our Seagate ST21M/22M MFM controllers have  this VALUABLE feature).  Otherwise, a drive type match that is close  but not exceeding either the cylinder or head values is the only  choice left.  An exact match in the head count is definitely  preferred when getting a "close" match.

My WD controller HAS THAT DYNAMIC Option, but I don't really know what it means.  Can't hurt to try it.

I found this one guy formatting his ST-506 Drive which is the same ST type, but different Geometry.  He used this

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I modified the entry for drive #7 (unused) to match the ST-506 as follows:
9900 (153 cylinders)
04 (4 heads)
8000 (reduced write current starts at cyl 128)
8000 (WPC starts at cyl 128)

0B (ECC burst)
00 (step rate = 3 ms)
FF (drive-ready timeout)
FF (format timeout)
FF (general timeout)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)
00 (always 00)

I also had to modify an unused byte (near the end) to take the 8 bit checksum to 00.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think think my best guess is for my KL330 Otagan RLL Drive:

ccc = Total number of cylinder [ 615 ]
h = number of heads [ 4 ]
rrr = starting reduce write current cylinder [ 128 ]
ppp = write precomp cylinder [ 128 ]
ee = max correctable burst length, default=11bits [11 ]
o = step rate, range(0-7, default=5)  [3 ]

My case ANSWER TO BIO Dynamic Format Question:

615 4 128 128 11 3 (CR)


But the manual says the Controller BIO may include standard Drive Types.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In    order to continue, you will need to know the parameters    of your          drive.  For your convenience, we have prepared a list of common hard       disk drives and their parameters.     By returning to the previous        menu, you may access the drive list.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I think whatever I do won't damage drive.  I can try again till I get formatting write.  That's what people have done, when they know nothing about their HD.

Rafaelle, yes the Hard drive Sector 0-6 is unreadable where MBR is.
That is the problem.  If I try 10 times, I get a partial read.
When I write back, it works a bit but not stable enough to load Filesystem and activate a C: drive.

Low Level Format will fix that.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 06:13:09 PM
I AM NOT GOING TO MOVE (RLL Drive and controller to 486).  

What if I damage it, then I have nothing left for my AMIGA and AMIGA PC, since it appears that ISA/IDE Adapter won't work.

BTW. I have a great joke to play on my friend who lent me the 486.
I'll remove his two IDE drives.  Put in the ISA/Adapter with Flash card on ribbon cable.  Flash Card hidden.
I'll tell him I sold the two OLD drives on Ebay $500 each and he can have back the Empty Case with Motherboard.
But It will boot up, with all OS installed, faster than ever.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 06:29:50 PM
I AM READY TO FORMAT THE RLL DRIVE SAFELY
with best guess BIOS options

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3779/32087270853_0e620af9b4.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 09:12:39 PM
FIRE EXTINGUISHER NOT NEEDED

Low Level FORMAT WORKED :)

I have a C: drive

Partitioned, and now fomatted with DOS installed:)
(Haven't tested C: drive boot yet) (Haven't created Amiga Partition with Adisk command yet)

DYNAMIC LL-Format method worked [No errors], but Drive was having Spotty Read Access doing FDISK.
 I did NON Dynamic.  And it worked better.

I NOTICE on FDISK (My DRIVE IS 1 CYLINDER LESS than before) so LL-Format De-allocated the 1-st Bad CYLINDER


For future reference this Thread gives all the details on RLL & MFM Drives and WD-Controller Parameters for LL-Format:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-9484.html
What I also read in above is how HARD DRIVES store bad areas somewhere on the On-Board Controller.  Either in a special hidden area on disk, or in Eprom.
Thus the missing Cylinder!!

Right now I'm running some DOS DISK ANALYSIS tools that I couldn't use since I never had a C: drive.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 14, 2017, 09:36:25 PM
C: Drive Scans done.  (READ/WRITE) tests come back 100% clean.

Rebooted Amiga-PC without Floppy, but still wants Floppy for boot ??

Time to RE-READ the AMIGA Bridgeboard Manual and do all the setup steps.

:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
:)  I have to admit, I am in very good Spirits at this point..  :)
:)  Even though I spent a few dollars on some extra parts.:)
:)  No big deal, I can sell them as a Retro kit of some sort..:)
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)

Onward!!

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 01:51:47 AM
COULD THIS WORK? (If so, then Super!)

If I can jumper the WD controller to work side by side with the ISA/IDE-CF-Adapter, then I could possibly have a D: drive that is Compact Flash Driven.

This would make SW install's a breeze since I could Write to C-Flash and pop in whatever I need into the D: drive.

So the ISA/IDE adapter doesn't have to work as a recognized C: drive.
I'm hoping the Bridgeboard recognizes the ISA/IDE Adapter (AFTER getting the C: Drive into Bridgeboard BIOS/DOS)

I've contacted Steve Pierce from Lo-Tech, and my Adapter Seller from Ebay if this is possible.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 15, 2017, 01:55:08 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822156
C: Drive Scans done.  (READ/WRITE) tests come back 100% clean.

Rebooted Amiga-PC without Floppy, but still wants Floppy for boot ??

Time to RE-READ the AMIGA Bridgeboard Manual and do all the setup steps.



Amiga Kickstart 1.2 can't boot from Hard Disks... Only Kickstart 1.3 and above machines can. If I remember well you said your A2000 is 1.2.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 02:29:46 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822175
Amiga Kickstart 1.2 can't boot from Hard Disks... Only Kickstart 1.3 and above machines can. If I remember well you said your A2000 is 1.2.
This is not to boot the AMIGA, off a Hard Drive on the Amiga Side.
(Plus I used to have Kickstart 1.2, I upgrade to Kickstart version 40.63 O.S. 3.1)

This is to boot the 8088 PC off it's C: Drive (MSDOS).

The Amiga will eventually Boot of the PC D: or E: drive, when I get the Amiga Setup thru the Bridgeboard (using DJmount etc)..
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 03:23:10 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822138
Infos on Old Hard Disk Formatting:

http://ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/misc/drivetyp.txt


(This is very interesting as refers to internal controller CMOS that have various types HDDS definition it it and maybe CUSTOM Option also defining the one that users mounted. If you alter that value, you are unable to read partitions as if you entered valid but alien geometry parameters.
I remember I encountered such a problem once on a PC by a Peecee friend.)

http://www.hirensbootcd.org/200-ways-to-revive-a-hard-drive/1/

-> The Seagate tool looks handy.  Will add that to my toolbox.
-> The 2nd like has some funny, and some good tips.  I used some of the good ones.

BTW.   I wrote many posts ago, that I read that a Low Level Format would only refresh the tracks on the disk and not wipe out the contents.
 NOT TRUE AT ALL (at least for the WD BIOS LL Formatter).  
I just checked the Drive after the LL Format, and even the Amiga Paritition which I didn't FORMAT Logically, is nothing but "00 00 00 00 00 00 00"
So NOT DOING that LL-Format go me my school paper back.

ALSO: Now that Drive is formatted and working. I reviewed the first Sector Using DiskEdit. That is where the MBR is.  Before I formatted the First Sector was unreadable (most of the time) and DISKedit would just show Zeros (=Not Readable).  So my problem the whole time was MBR was corrupt.
But I got a copy of the DOS Partition (minus the MBR), so if I wanted to, I could write back all the sectors, and see what the DOS drive looked like. (Not worth the effort).

LASTLY ** IMPORTANT* :  Never run "ADISK" on a corrupt disk where MBR is not readable.  That message that says it will write a boot record after hitting any key, and there is no way to stop it, unless you power off.  Writes a new MBR for a Partition covering the WHOLE DISK. It just happened once to me after LL-Format but I had a empty drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 15, 2017, 04:07:56 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822179


BTW.   I wrote many posts ago, that I read that a Low Level Format would only refresh the tracks on the disk and not wipe out the contents.
 NOT TRUE AT ALL (at least for the WD BIOS LL Formatter).  
I just checked the Drive after the LL Format, and even the Amiga Paritition which I didn't FORMAT Logically, is nothing but "00 00 00 00 00 00 00"
So NOT DOING that LL-Format go me my school paper back.


I've must of missed that post.   Low Level format zeros the drive AND changes its geometry to what is specified which is normally the factory default settings.    Regular format just zeros the drive.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 07:27:43 AM
I'M STUCK!!!

I wish I had access to a (FULLY WORKING) 2nd AMIGA 2000 with 8088 Bridgeboard and a Hard Drive on the PC Side.
TO COMPARE how things should work, and what the boot sequence looks like. (and what HW(rom)/SW versions are running for each piece)

I am totally guessing how things should work, making all kinds of theories in my head as to why this or that doesn't work. (Crazy theories listed below)

( saw that one video but guy was  moving camera around too much)
(Going to look for anyone showing how a  8088 Bridgeboard setup works)  ** Must be 8088 Bridgeboard, since 286 things are a bit different with HD support.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically I tried to follow the steps in the Bridgeboard and I got to the point where I FORMAT the AMIGA PARTION[on the RLL drive] from the AMIGA-OS.

The command is "FORMAT DRIVE JH0: NAME "AmigaOS"
It comes back with an error message:

format failed -
cannot find handler
** WHAT DOES THAT MEAN **

Prior to running this command I do run "DJmount ffs" or even tried "DJmount" (what bothers me is this command produces no message).

I understand that JH0: (is a harddisk) is a device like FD0: (is a floppy disk)

I checked that:
[Janus.library] is in the (df0:Expansion) folder
[JDdisk.device] is in the (df0:devs) folder

Basically everything is in place for the Communication across the bridgeboard.
Things are working in General Independantly, except for the Special (CROSS BRIDGEBOARD FEATURES)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have these clues as to what could be wrong
(since NOT working properly):

- The RLL Hardisk C: partition doesn't boot (DOS).   It should.
-----> The disk is good (100%).  Partitioned Active. Formatted with the /S switch.
- The Awrite / Aread commands on PC side (to copy from/to Amiga Side) don't work (last time I tested)
- I noticed that the DJMOUNT command on my newest disk, and the OLD OLD working DISK is different file size. (both work, newer one takes longer to run)

*** Mystery CLUE **.  I checked out the TWO original Working Workbench disks.  They are fine except for few read errors.
  ***  But as soon as I put them into the Drive after Amiga Cold Boot the system Crashes, Software error
*** Is that incopatibility with KICKSTART 3.1 ROM?  Older workbench?
  *** I want to clone those original disks somehow.  Make a new BOOTABLE and copy everything off the original disks (different DJMOUNT, etc, etc)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-IS THE BRIDGEBOARD FAULTLY? (Why no error messages)?
-IS my Bridgeboard Workbench disk wrong? (why no error message)?

-IS that Kickstart ROM I upgraded the problem?
---->(Should I put back the KS1.2 like the Amiga used to be ?)  
*** IS THE autoBoot feature in Kickstart 3.1 a problem for Bridgeboards?  
*** Did Amiga Developer take something out since who would use a 8088 for Hard Drive access.


---->(Should I go back to Workbench 1.2 like the Amiga Used to be?)

---->(I'm using DOS6.2 on PC side, Maybe go DOS 3.1.   Manual talks just DOS, and windows 1/2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really don't know what to do next to complete a flexible Dual Booting Hard Disk Driven system (which would be Nice!! and worth loading SW on)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could give up and just go ahead with the GOTEK install which would leave me with a pretty good setup.


A) Workbench used to Boot from slow unreliable Floppies
-----> Replaced by GOTEK

B) PC Boot used to boot from Floppy and that's all I had
-----> Now I have a hard drive, so floppy is just needed to Boot "Command.com",
-----> the C:config.sys, and C:autoexec.bat and everything else could be on C: drive (I tried it, it works)
-----> Kind of sucks,that I have a working DOS Bootable 5.25" disk in the drive.  ((*MUST BE FIXED*), Maybe Compact Flash when it comes.


Any ideas?
(contact that German Bridgeboard expert?)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 08:16:51 AM
I just got an IDEA (that won't work because I tested part of this before)

Let's reverse things!! (To solve the 5.25" boot disk requirement)

- In the bridgeboard manual (if you have an Amiga hard disk, but no PC hard disk), you can boot the PC from a Virtual DISK files on the AMIGA HD.

In a normal situation the VIRTUAL FILE would be a WHOLE PC C: Drive parition.  But a 3.5" 880K Workbench Floppy doesn't have room.

a) I create a small file on my WORKBENCH DISK (could be a file on DF0: or even a file on my external DF2:)

BB-Manual says file can be anywhere.  DISK, RAMDRIVE, so long as the file is permanent, and Read/Writeable.

b) inside that FILE is JUST enough to have a C: drive partition (bootable with A)
c) I re  LL-FORMAT the RLL drive as a D: drive with DOS files (but not bootable)

Here is how things would work: (if my bridgeboard and setup is ok)

A) I put in the WORKBENCH DISK
B) AMIGA BOOTS UP with the VIRTUAL C: Drive File on it.
C) PC Boots C: drive from that VIRTUAL DRIVE
d) But after command.com load (D: drive is used for everything else)

This would eliminate the 5.25" Bootable Floppy drive in the AMIGA PC.

*** BUT THIS WON't Work, because something is wrong with BRIDGEBOARD (AMIGA-PC and PC-AMIGA) Communication.
*** SOMETHING TO DO WITH JANUS



I am putting this Link I got above since it talks about JANUS versions, and tools to setup the CROSDOS.
(Plus a mention what files have to be where for Janus to work)
(and mention of some new Janus Setup Tool)
http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herold/computing/amiga/bridgeboard_faq.htm
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 15, 2017, 08:23:52 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822176


This is not to boot the AMIGA, off a Hard Drive on the Amiga Side.
(Plus I used to have Kickstart 1.2, I upgrade to Kickstart version 40.63 O.S. 3.1)

This is to boot the 8088 PC off it's C: Drive (MSDOS).

The Amiga will eventually Boot of the PC D: or E: drive, when I get the Amiga Setup thru the Bridgeboard (using DJmount etc)..



You see me still confused.
You don't have to boot the Amiga side BEFORE the PC side?

That would be entirely untypical.

All PC add-ons I have had in my Amigas required to boot the Amiga side first and then to start the PC from there. This is equally valid for hardware add-ons and for software PC emulators like "PCtask" or "PCx".

This could either mean to fully boot the Amiga side from an Amiga formatted harddrive and then to launch the PC side by starting the "PC lauching soft" from Workbench, or to do a "minimal Amiga boot" by inserting the "PC boot disk" into an Amiga floppy drive.

Depending on the setup on the "PC boot"-floppy disk, you would possibly not even notice that the Amiga side did a "minimal boot" first, as it only loads the things that are required on the Amiga side to initialise the PC side and to move the system over to it. Only then the PC can boot from his C: drive.

This way one could get the impression that the Amiga was not booted at all, but just the PC.

Either way - the Amiga has to boot first - even if the first "signs of life" on the screen are from the PC.

When you switch it on, your Amiga is completely dumb - it doesn't know anything (aside from the things in the Kickstart ROM).

It also doesn't know that it has a PC bridgeboard fitted (unless this info is stored in a "special" Kickstart ROM - but such is nowhere mentioned as requirement for operating the bridgeboard). To "notice" the bridgeboard the Amiga must get Infos about it in the first place - and this requires at least a "minimal boot" of the Amiga side.

Then the Amiga can load all required info regarding the bridgeboard and move the control over to it without making any output on the monitor.
Once the control has been moved over to the bridgheboard, the PC side starts looking for a bootable, PC formatted volume with the OS on it - be it a "PC" floppy disk ( A: ) or a "PC" boot partition ( C: ) on your harddrive.

Technically this is the only way I'm aware of.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 08:49:23 AM
Hi Dandy,

Welcome back, it's been a while.

I am going to start from Scratch on my WOrkbench Disk for my bridgeboard.  (NOW THAT ALL HW is working)

All the Software JAnus etc is old stuff I played with two years ago.
Back then I didn't have a good working PC HARD DIsk so I hacked and hacked to try an get it working.
Maybe I'm NOW USING mixed versions of SW to make that disk FINALLY work.  So I need to take a step back on my Software.
(That is why things are not working Across the Bridgeboard.  Why Awrite and Aread don't work.  Why format JH0: across the bridgeboard doesn't work)

I think this may be the final missing piece.


Here are all the DISKS in one place.
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt
I am gong to get them ALL, and start a fresh Workbench DIsk Build
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: psxphill on February 15, 2017, 09:36:56 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822190
C) PC Boots C: drive from that VIRTUAL DRIVE
d) But after command.com load (D: drive is used for everything else)

The manual says that autoboot from a virtual drive is disabled if you have a real harddrive in the bridge board.

Why can't you boot the PC from the PC hard drive?

I'm not sure using the PC hard drive as an Amiga partition is a good idea, the speed will be terrible.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
Quote from: psxphill;822198
The manual says that autoboot from a virtual drive is disabled if you have a real harddrive in the bridge board.

Why can't you boot the PC from the PC hard drive?

I'm not sure using the PC hard drive as an Amiga partition is a good idea, the speed will be terrible.
The PC Hard drive does work.  C: drive fully visible.  Formatted, Active [I can run programs from it] and ready to boot, but it doesn't (I believe the Auotboot has nothing to do with PC hard drive, that is booting from an Amiga Hard drive).

Why the PC won't boot is the mystery I wish to solve.   Shouldn't have anything to do with JANUS (but I could be wrong).

This has nothing to do with Speed for the Amiga Side (but having 21 MB) for a workbench would be nice.  Better than a Floppy.  If I install Gotek that will make things better, but has it's limitations.

Part of the whole purpose it to get the Amiga / Amiga PC fully working for the novelty, and overcoming the Challenge.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 02:42:42 PM
LoTech ISA/IDE-CF Adapter update (Possible solution)

I got an reply for James Pearce of LoTech.

I asked him if I could put in the ISA/IDE Compact Flash adapter, into the AMIGA PC Side (in parallel) with my Western Digital Controller for the RLL drive.

-> This would give me a  D: drive on the AmigaPC.
-> The WD/RLL drive would remains a C: drive (which is working except for auto-boot part)

For a better storage solution (using Flash Card as a way of getting Software In/Out of the PC)

It would eliminate all the Floppy disk transfers, and give me a Ton of flexible storage.
[FONT="]
Quote from James:
Yes it should work.[/FONT][FONT="]set the WD controller to be just itself. Likely it uses C800 for its ROM.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The ISA USB adapter will use D800 for the ROM and needs IO Port 300h free. That should be all that is needed.[/FONT]
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
Dandy,

If you have a copy of SYSINFO, can you run it an see if there is some process running on AMiga Side related to Bridgeboard, like JANUS or DJMOUNT.

This is my Amiga (when I click on DRIVE, I only see floppies DF0: DF2: )

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5686/32797323121_2ca8d15196.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 15, 2017, 08:26:59 PM
[HOW TO (Solve/Determine/Isolate) why C: drive Doesn't Boot in AMIGA PC]

The same way I solve the ISA/IDE Adapter ISA HD drive pickup.

I'll put the WD-RLL Controller and Drive into the 486.
It should boot C: drive from there with Partition and Boot DOS installed.

Just like the ISA/IDE Adpater does in there with the IDE-2 Hard Drive.

A) If IT BOOTS, the it the AMIGA PC
B) if it DOES NOT BOOT then it the RLL Drive

Might be something to do with ISA Addressing.  (Those jumpers on the WD controller Card)
Hey, I'm just guessing, since I have no hard facts to go on.
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part I
Post by: Dandy on February 16, 2017, 09:49:58 AM
Part I:

Hey wbrejnia,

It looks like you're still fishing in muddy waters. I'll try to answer your questions and clear some things up:

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #432 wbrejnia
Low Level FORMAT WORKED - I have a C: drive - Partitioned, and now fomatted with DOS installed
...
 #433 wbrejnia
C: Drive Scans done. (READ/WRITE) tests come back 100% clean. - Rebooted Amiga-PC without Floppy, but still wants Floppy for boot ??



What now - what did you reboot?
The 68k Amiga or the 8088 PC bridgeboard?

- In case you meant you "rebooted the Amiga without floppy", there must be a Amiga-formatted, bootable harddisk with AmigaOS installed on it - otherwise it could not have booted.
- In case you meant you "rebooted the PC without floppy", you should have just a black screen with the "C:\"-prompt and a flashing cursor next to it. How is it indicated that it still wants the floppy disk for booting?

Or did you mean you just TRIED to reboot?

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #434 wbrejnia
COULD THIS WORK? (If so, then Super!)
If I can jumper the WD controller to work side by side with the ISA/IDE-CF-Adapter, then I could possibly have a D: drive that is Compact Flash Driven.
This would make SW install's a breeze since I could Write to C-Flash and pop in whatever I need into the D: drive.
So the ISA/IDE adapter doesn't have to work as a recognized C: drive.
I'm hoping the Bridgeboard recognizes the ISA/IDE Adapter (AFTER getting the C: Drive into Bridgeboard BIOS/DOS)



I cannot answer this - I have no experience with using CF cards on 8088 PCs.

Quote

Original by Raffaele:

 #435 Raffaele
Amiga Kickstart 1.2 can't boot from Hard Disks... Only Kickstart 1.3 and above machines can.



With KS 1.2 you need a "HD-Boot" floppy disk. This must contain the necessary Amiga files to mount the harddrive and to move the system/control over to it (e.g. with the command "movesys dh0:").
What this "HD-Boot" floppy disk does is a "minimum boot", so to say.
The "full boot" into Workbench is then done from the harddrive.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #437 wbrejnia
BTW. I wrote many posts ago, that I read that a Low Level Format would only refresh the tracks on the disk and not wipe out the contents.
NOT TRUE AT ALL (at least for the WD BIOS LL Formatter).
I just checked the Drive after the LL Format, and even the Amiga Paritition which I didn't FORMAT Logically, is nothing but "00 00 00 00 00 00 00"



AFAIK, a "low level format" always deletes all data and all partitions on a physical harddrive ("physical" means the entire drive hardware - not just one or more partitions on it).
You cannot "low level" your physical Kalok MFM/RLL drive and hope a possibly existing Amiga-partition (a "logical" drive) on it remains untouched.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #439 wbrejnia
Basically I tried to follow the steps in the Bridgeboard and I got to the point where I FORMAT the AMIGA PARTION [on the RLL drive] from the AMIGA-OS.



Ah - your drive is no longer formatted in MFM format?
How many mB more does it have now as RLL formatted drive?

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #439 wbrejnia
The command is "FORMAT DRIVE JH0: NAME "AmigaOS"
It comes back with an error message:
format failed -
cannot find handler
** WHAT DOES THAT MEAN **



As far as I understood from your postings you just "low levelled" your MFM/RLL drive as one bootable partition with "fdisk", formatted it with M$-Dos 6.2 and installed M$-Dos 6.2, right?

In this case the drive is formatted with the FAT PC-filesystem.

If you now want to have an Amiga-partition on it, the Amiga-partition has to be formatted with an Amiga-filesystem like FFS (FastFileSystem), SFS (SmartFileSystem), PFS3 (ProfessionalFileSystem, commercial).
The file system is stored in the "L"-directory of your boot disk and needs to be written to your harddrive when formatting it with HD Toolbox. Thomas Rapp has a good instruction on his homepage: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/bighdd/index.html

B.T.W. - Thomas is our expert when it comes to harddrive problems.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

I have these clues as to what could be wrong (since NOT working properly):
- The RLL Hardisk C: partition doesn't boot (DOS). It should.



Errrmmmm - didn't you say a bit further up that you booted from it?
Ah - I see - in that statement you did not make clear what you were talking about - the PC-side or the Amiga-side...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

-----> The disk is good (100%). Partitioned Active. Formatted with the /S switch.



Fine.
And the subsequent installation of M$-Dos was successful?

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

- The Awrite / Aread commands on PC side (to copy from/to Amiga Side) don't work (last time I tested)


Code: [Select]

- Did you open &quot;PCDisk&quot; on the Workbench before using the Awrite / Aread commands on PC side?

  As the English manual says (page 64) :rtfm: :
   &quot;[i]Note: You must open PCDisk first before using ARead or A Write, or an
    error message will appear on the screen. If this happens, return to the
    Workbench window and double-click on the PCDisk icon. A window
    does not appear when PCDisk is opened, but the icon changes color.)[/i]&quot;

- Did you use the correct format of the &quot;ARead&quot;-command /the options?

  As given in the English manual (page 64):
   &quot;[i]Aread Amiga-filespec PC-filespec [/b] [/nc] [/cr][/i]&quot;
   Did you use the correct notations for &quot;Amiga-filespec&quot; and &quot;PC-filespec&quot; (see manual)?

- Did you get an error message upon the &quot;ARead&quot;-failure? What did it say?

  As the English manual says (page 66):
   &quot;[i]If ARead fails for any reason, an error code will be returned at the DOS
    error level. You can use the error return in . BAT files to detect and
    handle any error that might occur.[/i]&quot;

- Did you use the correct format of the &quot;ARead&quot;-command /the options?

  As given in the English manual (page 67):
   &quot;[i]AWrite PC-filespec Amiga-filespec [/b] [/nc] [/cr] for single file transfers
    or
    A Write PC-wild-card Amiga-Directory-Spec [/b] [/nc] [/cr] for multiple file transfers[/i]&quot;
    Did you use the correct notations for &quot;PC-filespec&quot; and &quot;Amiga-filespec&quot; (see manual)?

- Did you get an error message upon the &quot;ARead&quot;-failure? What did it say?
  As the English manual says (page 66):
   &quot;[i]If A Write fails for any reason an error code will be returned at the DOS
    error level. You can use the error return in . BAT files to detect and
    handle any error that might occur.[/i]&quot;

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

- I noticed that the DJMOUNT command on my newest disk, and the OLD OLD working DISK is different file size. (both work, newer one takes longer to run)



If I have several versions of a file, I tend to use the latest one.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** Mystery CLUE **. I checked out the TWO original Working Workbench disks. They are fine except for few read errors.



This is alarming.
It could very well be that one or more of these "few read errors" are responsible for non-working things.
I would definitely try to fix those errors with "DiskSalv4" from http://aminet.net/search?query=disksalv.

Also download the archive "DiskSalv4Guide.lha" (manual) from there.

"DiskSalv" tries to read the bad disk despite it's errors and to write the salvaged stuff to a new, empty disk.

After that you should check in how far your already existing "working copies" (created from the damaged "TWO original Working Workbench disks") are affected by the read errors and - if necessary - re-create them.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** But as soon as I put them into the Drive after Amiga Cold Boot the system Crashes, Software error



Apparently due to those read errors.
There could be other reasons for that as well, but salve your bad disks first and try again with the new ones without read errors.


NOTE:
When I wanted to submit my answer, the system told me:

"The text that you have entered is too long (15580 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long."

So, this is the end of Part I - to be continued in Part II...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: Dandy on February 16, 2017, 09:52:14 AM
Part II:

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** Is that incopatibility with KICKSTART 3.1 ROM? Older workbench?



Hummm - I would definitely only use Kickstart and Workbench with the same version number...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** I want to clone those original disks somehow. Make a new BOOTABLE and copy everything off the original disks (different DJMOUNT, etc, etc)



XCopy (http://aminet.net/search?query=xcopy) is good for such tasks...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

-IS THE BRIDGEBOARD FAULTLY? (Why no error messages)?



That's a possibility, but at this point I don't think so...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

-IS my Bridgeboard Workbench disk wrong? (why no error message)?



Does it also have read errors?
If so, --> DiskSalv is your friend...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

-IS that Kickstart ROM I upgraded the problem?
---->(Should I put back the KS1.2 like the Amiga used to be ?)



As I said above, I would definitely only use Kickstart and Workbench with the same version number...
So, to avoid any incompatibilities, make sure WB and KS are the same version.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** IS THE autoBoot feature in Kickstart 3.1 a problem for Bridgeboards?



You will have to try if KS 1.2 makes a difference...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

*** Did Amiga Developer take something out since who would use a 8088 for Hard Drive access.



To find out, you would have to read & compare the change logs of both...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

---->(Should I go back to Workbench 1.2 like the Amiga Used to be?)



I would definitely try at first to get it all working properly with v1.2 and later try it with v3.1 ...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

---->(I'm using DOS6.2 on PC side, Maybe go DOS 3.1. Manual talks just DOS, and windows 1/2



Have you tried to find out on the web which M$-Dos version is best suited for  8088 "stoneage" cpus?
What's "windows 1/2"?
The oldest Windows-version I know is "Windows for 286" - I don't even know if there was a version that runs on 8088 cpus (predecessors of the 286 cpus)...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

I really don't know what to do next to complete a flexible Dual Booting Hard Disk Driven system (which would be Nice!! and worth loading SW on)



Well, I can understand that making this old stuff work again is a nice challenge.

But I cannot decide for you if it's worth the hassle.
Keep in mind that in 2017, a 8088 cpu is of very limited use.
It might turn out that it is really hard nowadays to find software to run on it.
I have thrown out my Vortex 286 harware add-on because of that already a long time ago.
I even doubt that a 386 or even a 486 bridgeboard is of much use in 2017.

If you're after a "flexible Dual Booting system", the best I can do is to suggest to make your Amiga network capable and network it with an cheap up-to-date WIntel box using "RDesktop" and "smbf".
Today, most of the classic Amiga hardware (including all existing PC bridges) is so far behind that running actual Win versions on it is either impossible or at least incredibly slow.

Furthermore, if you want to make your Miggy a "Hard Disk Driven system", there are much better solutions available at relative low prices (faster, higher capacity, higher flexibility, more reliable, sparepart supply etc.). I'd say it's worth considering a modern solution rather than using a 30 year old MFM/RLL solution, where no-one can predict WHEN the drive will start to fail. It WILL fail, the question is WHEN...

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

I could give up and just go ahead with the GOTEK install which would leave me with a pretty good setup.
A) Workbench used to Boot from slow unreliable Floppies
-----> Replaced by GOTEK
B) PC Boot used to boot from Floppy and that's all I had
-----> Now I have a hard drive, so floppy is just needed to Boot "Command.com",
-----> the C:config.sys, and C:autoexec.bat and everything else could be on C: drive (I tried it, it works)
-----> Kind of sucks,that I have a working DOS Bootable 5.25" disk in the drive. ((*MUST BE FIXED*), Maybe Compact Flash when it comes.
Any ideas? (contact that German Bridgeboard expert?)



As I just said - I cannot decide for you if it's worth all the hassle. All I can say that there are better solutions available today.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

 #440 wbrejnia
I just got an IDEA (that won't work because I tested part of this before)
Let's reverse things!! (To solve the 5.25" boot disk requirement)
- In the bridgeboard manual (if you have an Amiga hard disk, but no PC hard disk), you can boot the PC from a Virtual DISK files on the AMIGA HD.
In a normal situation the VIRTUAL FILE would be a WHOLE PC C: Drive parition. But a 3.5" 880K Workbench Floppy doesn't have room.



No.
You just said "if you have an Amiga hard disk". If you have an Amiga hard disk and it is a modern one with several gB in size, you're NOT restricted to 880 kB for your VIRTUAL C:-FILE.
And best of all:
You can have several partitions on such drives and some of them can be PC formatted - no problem at all.

Quote

Original by wbrejnia:

a) I create a small file on my WORKBENCH DISK (could be a file on DF0: or even a file on my external DF2
BB-Manual says file can be anywhere. DISK, RAMDRIVE, so long as the file is permanent, and Read/Writeable.
b) inside that FILE is JUST enough to have a C: drive partition (bootable with A)
c) I re LL-FORMAT the RLL drive as a D: drive with DOS files (but not bootable)
Here is how things would work: (if my bridgeboard and setup is ok)
A) I put in the WORKBENCH DISK
B) AMIGA BOOTS UP with the VIRTUAL C: Drive File on it.
C) PC Boots C: drive from that VIRTUAL DRIVE
d) But after command.com load (D: drive is used for everything else)
This would eliminate the 5.25" Bootable Floppy drive in the AMIGA PC.
*** BUT THIS WON't Work, because something is wrong with BRIDGEBOARD (AMIGA-PC and PC-AMIGA) Communication.
*** SOMETHING TO DO WITH JANUS
I am putting this Link I got above since it talks about JANUS versions, and tools to setup the CROSDOS.
(Plus a mention what files have to be where for Janus to work)
(and mention of some new Janus Setup Tool)
http://members.quicknet.nl/rhm.herol...eboard_faq.htm



Forget a) to d).
My suspect still is that you somehow misunderstood the underlying working concept of PC bridgeboards and therefore make mistakes.

I still think you have to have a booting Amiga harddrive first and then to install the bridgeboard soft on that. This allows you to start the bridgeboard from Workbench, when you need to, just by double-clicking the related icon. Normally this is not very complicated.

Once the bridgeboard started, the PC-side boots automatically - either from a "VIRTUAL C:-FILE" on the Amiga partition, or from an "PC formatted partition".

And then you can switch forth and back between the Amiga and the PC and work on both sides simultanously (nah - rather alternating).

Phew - what a lengthy answer...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 16, 2017, 10:09:47 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822237


Dandy,

If you have a copy of SYSINFO, can you run it an see if there is some process running on AMiga Side related to Bridgeboard, like JANUS or DJMOUNT.
...



I'm afraid I have to disappoint you here.
My old A500 is partly taken apart and stored in the cupboard since 1999.
"Partly taken apart" means I have thrown out my Vortex ATOnce 286 classic decades ago, replaced the 68000 cpu with an Viper 520+hd and so on...

Haven't looked at it since 1999 - not sure if it still works at all...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 16, 2017, 11:42:16 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822195


Hi Dandy,

Welcome back, it's been a while.



Thanks!

Quote from: wbrejnia;822195


I am going to start from Scratch on my WOrkbench Disk for my bridgeboard.  (NOW THAT ALL HW is working)



That might be a good idea...

Quote from: wbrejnia;822195


All the Software JAnus etc is old stuff I played with two years ago.
...



:laughing::roflmao:
Initially I overlooked the "J" in "JAnus" and was just starting to think "What the f..."...
:rofl::biglaugh:

Quote from: wbrejnia;822195


I think this may be the final missing piece.


Here are all the DISKS in one place.
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt
I am gong to get them ALL, and start a fresh Workbench DIsk Build



Good idea.
Make sure all disks you have to use for this are good. (DiskSalv)

Also make sure you're using the same version of Kickstart and Workbench.
Furthermore, all the floppy disks you have to use in the process should be formatted and created with the same version of Kickstart and Workbench you are working with. This way I avoided running into version probs back in the days.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on February 16, 2017, 12:04:30 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822239


[HOW TO (Solve/Determine/Isolate) why C: drive Doesn't Boot in AMIGA PC]



Hummm - when you prepared the drive with "fdisk" - did you chose the "primary DOS partition" (PRI DOS) for your boot partition (most likely c: )?
And it also seems to be better to boot the PC not from harddrive for this, but from a bootdisk, which was created with the same DOS version.

Quote from: wbrejnia;822239


...
Hey, I'm just guessing, since I have no hard facts to go on.
 


Try to get all necessary "hard facts" on the web - "Google is your friend!"...
;)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part I
Post by: Raffaele on February 16, 2017, 02:48:25 PM
Quote from: Dandy;822265
Part I:

With KS 1.2 you need a "HD-Boot" floppy disk. This must contain the necessary Amiga files to mount the harddrive and to move the system/control over to it (e.g. with the command "movesys dh0:").
What this "HD-Boot" floppy disk does is a "minimum boot", so to say.
The "full boot" into Workbench is then done from the harddrive.

Of course it does. I omitted the HD Floppy Boot part you added at is seems me obvious. At least i remember how worked Kickstart 1.2.

Also if I remember well Movesys command was good utility from Fish Disks, either you must do all Assigns by adding it on S:Startup-Sequence (and Startup-Sequence only as User-Startup did not exist in 1.2).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part I
Post by: Raffaele on February 16, 2017, 03:33:06 PM
@ Wbrejnia

Now we have some scenarios:

Scenario A

1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk

2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots

3) PC boots from PC Floppy A. or B:


Scenario B:

1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk

2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots

3) PC boots from C: partition on Hard Disk mounted on ISA Controller

Does it or Are there any issues?


Scenario C:

1) Boot Amiga from Floppy, Initialize Bridgeboard, Initialize Amiga HD DH0:

2) Floppy movs all System to Amiga Hard Disk (running but no booting)

2) On Amiga Hard Disk or other Amiga Partition RAM:, Df0:, etc., you can put Virtual C. File and make PC boot from it.

It should be made visible to PC with an option of JDisk (if I remember well)


Scenario D

1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk

2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots

3) PC boots from C: partition on Hard Disk mounted on ISA Controller

4) JDisks make Amiga aware it exists virtual partitions files JF0: JF1: Etcetera upto 7 on PC Hard Disk partition C:


Scenario E

1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk

2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots

3) PC boots from C: partition on Hard Disk mounted on ISA Controller

4) JDisks make Amiga aware it exists virtual partitions files JH0: JH1: Etcetera upto 7 on PC Hard Disk partition C:

5) Amiga can transfer system from Floppy to JH0: as Dandy says, just as like any other Amiga real Hard Disk DH0: but it requires some time to boot and make all virtual partitions JF-X: visible back to Amiga side

6) Amiga will use JH0: As any normal real Hard Disk for the entire time of the session (remember it requires partitioning and formatting).


Scenario F

1) Boot from Gotek Floppy Drive Emulator

2) Gotek ADF 1 virtual Amiga Floppy boots the Amiga computer, initializes Bridgeboard with PC Disk and activate ISA Slots so then PC Hard Disk becames visible

Unfortunately Booting from Gotek does not makes the CF Card visible as an Amiga Hard Disk. It mounts upto 999 Floppy drive images ADF visible to Amiga as if were 999 separate floppies each of one visible at a single time...
So you csan only boot from ADF 1 and then mount and make visible files present on another ADF like when Amiga prompts INSERT DISK Name_XXX.

So then...

3) You can put Virtual C: partition on a file on ADF 2 or above numbering SLOT on your Gotek virtual drive, but you have to do lots of assigns and joking with inserting/removing virtual floppy ADF and made right instructions to JDisk command.


If you want to use your Amiga-PC in a different way, please explain better what you want to do.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: Raffaele on February 16, 2017, 03:55:37 PM
Quote from: Dandy;822266
Part II:



Quote
Original by wbrejnia:

*** IS THE autoBoot feature in Kickstart 3.1 a problem for Bridgeboards?
You will have to try if KS 1.2 makes a difference...

I would definitely try at first to get it all working properly with v1.2 and later try it with v3.1 ...



WARNING!


Bridgeboard Software works well with Kickstart and Workbnch 1.2, 1.3, and if I remember well, it works also with Kickstart 2.0.4.

It has some issues with 2.1 and does not work at all with Amiga Kickstart and AmigaOS 3.0 and 3.1 (could generate lots of Guru Meditations at any moment)

I don't know why Commodore abandoned Bridgeboard users at their own destiny.
Any other firm like ATARI or Apple had had acted seriously for their users supporting bridgebard software for at least 10 years.

Unfortunately advancement of Amiga, transforming original OS from Disk labeled "Workbench" to proper AmigaOS made Commodore assuming Bridgeboard are no longer useful and deprecate them, not developing any software updates valid running with 3.0 and 3.1.

What a Pity.

I remember my bridgeboard Amiga buddy Giuseppe was forced to bought a Multikickstart card with 3 roms space, putting Kickstart 1.3, 2.0.4 and 3.0 kickstart versions on his A2000.

When he wanted using Bridgeboard he booted from 1.3 or 2.0.4.

When he wanted modern Amiga system he booted from 3.0 kick rom.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 16, 2017, 09:45:15 PM
WOW!!  All the feedback and ideas.

Dandy, you will be on next Cover of Bridgeboard for Dummies Book Version 1.2.

You guys are amazing.
I have so much to think about, but my next step after being busy last 2 days is.

1) GET OLD KICKSTART 1.2 ROM back into Motherboard.

What kept me busy is.....

- I took apart the whole system, and rebooted things to see error messages
- Like what happens when no bridge board (Janus.library Error)
- Like when no 5.25" disk on Amiga PC (won't boot, from external 3.5")
- I left HD Controller in but didn't hook up Hard disks.
- etc etc (many combination tried to see things broken on purpose)

What I learned is EVERYTHING is working when I put everything back.
*** NO ERROR MESSAGE *** Means Good.

Now I started having some very particular issue with the Hard Drive.
** THIS IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL MY PROBLEMS **

Sometimes the MBR (Master Boot Record of Hard Drive) doesn't get picked up.
->IT IS NOT THE RLL HARD DRIVE (itself)
->IT IS NOT THE Western Digital RLL Controller

->Basically it is intermittent.   The MBR is on the DISK but it doesn't alway get picked up by DOS.
-> DOS loads the MBR into memory ONCE and never goes for it again (based on my reading)
-----> That is why disk will continue to work, even if you wipe out, destroy the MBR.  It is in DOS memory.  JUST DON'T Reboot.
-----> That is why you have to reboot after FDISK Partition Change.  Same for ADISK.

So before when I thought I had a Hard drive problem, I wrote back to MBR and messed it up.  Maybe two years ago and certainly early a few weeks ago.

SO I HAVE EXTENSIVELY TESTED THE HARD DRIVE

First I did a low level format with optimal parameters.
Not a single back sector!!
I learned this because at end of LL Format there is a list of errors and you can format again. List was empty.  RLL drive is ZERO ERROR FREE!!

Norton Disk Utilities (PASSED 100%)
The Norton Tests are very VERY thorough.   Some test (like Calibrate) are very aggressive and make the head go back from First to Last Cylinder very quickly to test response. BOY that make the table shake, but drive passed with high rating.
It checked many many things.  Memory, speed, interleave, Controller Response, etc ,etc ,etc
ALL tests passed 100%.

Next I ran Spinrite
Many similar tests,  even recommended drive is safe for low level format and gave me recommendation to change Interleaving from 4 to 5 to get 560% throughput improvement.  Same recommendation as Norton did.
I even ran the 5 pattern read write test that would run for 6 hours on 32 MB of disk (After 1 hours I stopped it).
Disk and Controller came back PERFECT all tests 100% pass!!
Not a single bit of error anywhere for a 25 year old disk
(but used so little.  I probably used it over last two weeks than 20 years).


So it's not the controller, not the Hard drive.
Could it be the cable?  What else to have a MBR intermittently not pick up.
The MBR is in the first sectors of the drive where it was LL-Formatted and extensively tested.

The behavior of the AMIGA PC IS this.
a) Drive light flashes long and slow many times after hard boot and initialization of PC.  
b) Then it give up on C: drive boot and goes to Floppy
c) If MBR is picked up.  The computer is PERFECT
d) If MBR is not picked up, NO MBR means no Partitions, no C: drive nothing
e) I even did a FISK /MBR to write a MBR back.  That works.
g) I made a Norton DiskTOOL rescue disk. I saved MBR, BIOS, and Partitions to a floppy.  So anytime I can load everything back (so don't have to partition, format, install software all over again)

I think this intermittent MBR is also the reason why the ISA/IDE Adapter doesn't work properly.
I think this intermittent behavior is a conflict of some kind.   Again the Wrong Kickstart?  Maybe.
I think why AWRITE and Aread don't work is related
I think why FORMAR JH0: doesn't work is related.
Dandy's many points above make sense.  

I was thinking borrow ribbon cables from 486.  But these cable work fine during hours of DISK Analysis.

WHAT COULD AN INTERMITTENT MBR load be caused by?



IS IT THAT KICKSTART CHIP I bought (EBAY) two years ago just for FUN to Try WORKBENCH 3.1 (that is when I first tried to fix the A2000)
I put it in after I gave up on Hard Drive (two years ago, but now I know my cables were reversed!!)

IS THIS MY PROBLEM (O.S 3.1 Version 40.63)?  
What kickstart is this?  (I just googled "Kickstart version 40.64 O.S 3.1 and nothing comes up  "V40" is Kickstart 3.0 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kickstart_(Amiga)

Released FOR AMIGA 1200, 4000T (NOT FOR A2000)
I just read that they needed to support SCCI and IDE in the rom so the moved out "workbench.library" from 512K ROM and it has to been on OS Hard drive.
 but Amigakit.com sell them for A2000 http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=157

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/657/32449298832_6c791880e2_o.jpg)
Could explain why some of older disk INSTANTLY CRASH COMPUTER AND go into GURU error.  INSTANTLY as soon as disk goes into drive.

I am putting back original KICKSTART 1.2!!!  TODAY (and since all taken out, I'll put in that Replacement battery I bought)

Then I do more things.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: wbrejnia on February 16, 2017, 10:55:17 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822285
WARNING!


Bridgeboard Software works well with Kickstart and Workbnch 1.2, 1.3, and if I remember well, it works also with Kickstart 2.0.4.

It has some issues with 2.1 and does not work at all with Amiga Kickstart and AmigaOS 3.0 and 3.1 (could generate lots of Guru Meditations at any moment)

I remember my bridgeboard Amiga buddy Giuseppe was forced to bought a Multikickstart card with 3 roms space, putting Kickstart 1.3, 2.0.4 and 3.0 kickstart versions on his A2000.

When he wanted using Bridgeboard he booted from 1.3 or 2.0.4.

I just read this..... THIS IS MY PROBLEM!!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part I
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 12:49:27 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822284
Now we have some scenarios:
Scenario A/Scenario B:/Scenario C:/Scenario D
Scenario E (wins)
1) Boot Amiga from floppy and run PCDISk
2) it initializes Bridgeboard ad activate ISA Slots
3) PC boots from C: partition on Hard Disk mounted on ISA Controller
4) JDisks make Amiga aware it exists virtual partitions files JH0: JH1: Etcetera upto 7 on PC Hard Disk partition C:
5) Amiga can transfer system from Floppy to JH0: as Dandy says, just as like any other Amiga real Hard Disk DH0: but it requires some time to boot and make all virtual partitions JF-X: visible back to Amiga side
6) Amiga will use JH0: As any normal real Hard Disk for the entire time of the session (remember it requires partitioning and formatting).


Scenario E is what would make me happy for many reasons.  Overcoming challenge is #1 priority.

But right now I want things to work, so I have choices for Final setup.

I haven't installed Gotek yet since too busy playing with RLL HD, ISA-IDE.

What I want is a Hard Drive on the Amiga 8088 PC side to Boot DOS from ISA-IDE /IDE-Drive (I want to sell the RLL&Controller).  Run Windows 2.0 (Real old Retro Feel) and maybe some MS DOS whatever (a classic DOS game or two).

BUT NO 5.25" Floppy needed for DOS PC boot.  Maybe even Amiga Explorer running from my ISA Serial Card to Amiga Serial Port (Null Modem) to demonstrate ADF extract/Import and Serial communication.

Then on Amiga Side, Gotek is good enough for Booting games.
For Amiga Workbench it could be Gotek but access to Amiga PC Hard drive would be a nice (BUS-to-BUS BRIDGING WORKS) demonstration.

All above just working to show a Demo of Old Technology, but still used basic concepts/principles of serial/parallel communication, bit, bytes, handshaking, interfacing, etc.

I might donate A2000 to my sons High School they have a computer/robotics lab and learn basic concepts in Grade 10 which he is in.

Kind of like when they do Photography course they start with taking Film Photography and developing their own Paper B&W photos.

I could always come by a visit the A2000, seeing the kids amused by the A2000 and taking 20-Mpix Photos of it.
(Each photo on their Pocket phones a big as my Whole Hard RLL Hard Drive which holds 2 Operating systems and some SW proven useful years ago).
The Amiga 8088 screen PC resolution equivalent their photo thumbnail on their phone.
As they laugh at A2000, push the Gotek selector and run a Copy of Galaga or Galaxian with the Epyx Joystick (That will stop them laughing and appreciate Gaming History).

If RLL drive doesn't sell then donate it too,  Remove HD Top Metal Coverbox and put a Plexiglass shield replacement on it to see it Disks Spin an Heads move, just like the robots they build in class.

BUT FIRST I Have to swap the Kickstart ROMs while I pray.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 03:14:53 AM
Starting take apart A2000 for ROM chip swap, and Battery Install.

Here is one of RLL Drive Analysis Reports.  All the other passed just as well.

[ Norton Calibrate ] One test scared me, since so aggressive with the Head Motion Rapid swings!!

                             Norton Utilities, 6.01
                   

                            *************************
                            *  Report for Drive C:  *
                            *************************

                               LOGICAL DISK INFORMATION

                     -----------------------------------------
                        Media Descriptor:  F8
                         Large Partition:  No
                                FAT Type:  16-bit
                           Total Sectors:  63,336
                          Total Clusters:  15,794
                        Bytes Per Sector:  512
                     Sectors Per Cluster:  4
                       Bytes Per Cluster:  2,048
                          Number of FATs:  2 (PCdos) (AmigaDOS)
                     First Sector of FAT:  1
               Number of Sectors Per FAT:  62
                First Sector of Root Dir:  125
           Number of Sectors in Root Dir:  32
           Maximum Root Dir File Entries:  512
               First Sector of Data Area:  157


                            PHYSICAL DISK INFORMATION
                     -----------------------------------------
                            Drive Number:  80
                                   Heads:  4
                               Cylinders:  609
                       Sectors Per Track:  26
                           Starting Head:  0
                       Starting Cylinder:  5
                         Starting Sector:  1
                             Ending Head:  3
                         Ending Cylinder:  613
                           Ending Sector:  26

                                RELIABILITY TESTS
                     -----------------------------------------
                      System Memory Test:  Passed
                       Controller Memory: Passed
                  Controller Reliability:  Passed
                            Disk Mapping:  Passed
                    Allocation Integrity: Passed
                     Diagnostic Cylinder:  Passed
                        High Speed Timer:  Passed
                               CMOS Test:  Passed

                                   SEEK TESTS
                     -----------------------------------------
                      BIOS Seek Overhead:     5.44 ms
                          Track-to-Track:    13.90 ms
                             Full Stroke:    92.51 ms
                            Average Seek:    51.91 ms

                               ENCODING TECHNOLOGY
                     -----------------------------------------
                              Drive RPMs:   3,612
                            Sector Angle:   13.45ø
                         Controller Type:      XT
                           Encoding Type:     RLL

                                 INTERLEAVE TEST
                     -----------------------------------------
                          Interleave        Revolutions
                         ------------      -------------
                              1:1               26  
                              2:1               27  
                              3:1               28  
                              4:1               28  
                              5:1                5  (Optimal, and Tool Auto Adjusted the Hard Drive)  
                              6:1                6  
                              7:1                7  
                              8:1                8  

                            Current Interleave is 4:1
                            Optimal Interleave is 5:1

SURFACE TEST STATUS
                     -----------------------------------------
                                  Test Summary
                             ----------------------
                   Pattern Testing Level:  Standard Testing (40 patterns)
                          New Interleave:  5:1
Correctable Sectors:  0
                   Uncorrectable Sectors:  0

                      No Errors encountered in Surface Test

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 05:17:22 AM
Dandy,
I have comments and answers to all your detailed points.
I will hold off for now till I get that original KS1.2 ROM back in.
I'm hoping my answers will change.
I took screenshots of every test and procedure like Lo format.
EVen short movies of the boot behavior of HD.
So I will be able to clearly compare things.
One more day for downgrade I don't want to rush battery replacement install.

Wally
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: leofoe on February 17, 2017, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822285
WARNING!It has some issues with 2.1 and does not work at all with Amiga Kickstart and AmigaOS 3.0 and 3.1 (could generate lots of Guru Meditations at any moment)


My A2000 with Kickstart 3.1 rom and Workbench 3.9 works fine with it's Bridgeboard.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: leofoe;822323
My A2000 with Kickstart 3.1 rom and Workbench 3.9 works fine with it's Bridgeboard.
Maybe matching kickstart to workbench is the key.

I am running 3.1 kickstart and 1.3 workbench.

And does you setup work with access to HD on ISA slot side.
Does Aread and Awrite work from one side to other?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 03:04:32 PM
Before I start the A2000 take apart I am going to try the copy of workbench 3.1

When i tried it only once two years ago I didn't set up things for Bridgeboard like including JANUS.library in the EXPANSION folder.

I just wanted to see the new Kickstart RoM working. I already gave up on the hardrive.

I am not even sure

Could it be possible that the removed libraries from ROM are on wORkbench 3.1 to make things work?

We'll see.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 03:53:11 PM
I booted WB 3.1, and put in BB install disk.
A simply drag and Drop of JANUS.library wasn't possible since no space on WB3.1 disk.
Too complicated and I'm asking for Trouble.
Getting WB 3.1 working with Bridgeboard will be later.

Best just to take apart A2000 and put in Kickstart 1.2 ROM (Much safer from a OS perspective, [compatibility]).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 17, 2017, 06:43:14 PM
[ KICKSTART 1.2 ROM Installed ] [ Coin Battery Next ]

The original Kickstart ROM has been put back.

Now I'm working on Battery Replacement.

I want it to look tidy, and I have a few Color Choices for mini Breadboard.
I got a bunch of multi-colored mini breadboard from Aliexpress a while ago for 50 cents each.
I knew they would come in handy.


I did a too good job removing that Battery Cleanly.
Wish I left some metal exposed.  Hoping I can Solder/Push the solid wires thru.

I don't want to remove the whole Circuit board to get underneath.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/632/32831484691_e7b624bbcf_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 17, 2017, 08:01:06 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822331
I booted WB 3.1, and put in BB install disk.
A simply drag and Drop of JANUS.library wasn't possible since no space on WB3.1 disk.


There are special Bridgeboard install disks with everything needed on them.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: leofoe on February 17, 2017, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822325
And does you setup work with access to HD on ISA slot side.
Does Aread and Awrite work from one side to other?
I use a hard file on the A2000.
On the Sidecar the harddisk is split in an Amiga and DOS partition.
I have never used Aread and Awrite, so not sure if that works.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 01:58:01 AM
Quote from: leofoe;822344
I use a hard file on the A2000.
On the Sidecar the harddisk is split in an Amiga and DOS partition.
I have never used Aread and Awrite, so not sure if that works.
So you have a Hard Drive on the A2000 Side?  What Kind?  How?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 02:00:33 AM
Amiga 2000 Replacement Battery Holder installed.

That Minus Side I cut too clean when removing battery.  Solder didn't grip.
Lucky it was Ground, so  I just tapped into another GND spot on MB.

Picked the Green Breadboard.  Little bit of Hot Glue and it's done.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3694/32837612641_d9251bb86a_c.jpg)

Next is:

-
Put A2000 back together
- Test the Battery Holder Connections (Voltage Check)
- Cross my fingers/toes and boot up BB Workbench and hope for some Good Luck (with original Kickstart ROM)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 18, 2017, 02:11:00 AM
FYI - You can get ready made coin battery replacements with ready pcb.  Using a tiny breadboard I would consider a temporarily install.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1093
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 02:21:36 AM
I saw that Battery unit on AmigaKit.   Almost ordered it before finding coin holder at surplus store.

Nice, but goes on Motherboard and hard to get to battery (after Drive Cage goes back).
My coin battery holder would also fit perfectly on the motherboard. All I would have to do is solder in the tiny diode on the backside. (Diode is only thing on PCB)
But to solder either I would have to take out the motherboard to solder from the backside (didn't want to risk doing the MB takeout)

The breadboard is solidly in place (easy access for replacing battery 11 years from now :) ).  Plus can take out battery if I want to.
(Coin batteries can also leak, damaging the mother board.  This is safer)

 I glue gunned all the components, wires on the Breadboard. (after taking that picture).  Nothing is going to move.  Can peel off soft glue if I want to.

This is just power, not high speed data connection. (Actually there isn't any high speed data in this A2000 much anywhere! )
So will be quite fine for permanent setup. (Total cost $5 with battery)

I'm actually thinking of doing something similar for the Kickstart ROM Chip, which also hard to get to.
I know AmigaKit sells a nice switcher that will flip Chips using [CTRL]-[AMIGA]-[AMIGA] keys.


But a simple dummy chip (found it in my parts box)-> wired to ribbon cable extender to a 2nd easy access socket/breadboard will keep me happy.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2133/32921180646_9c698c203b_o.jpg)
But that's a possible, later project, if I really need/want dual kickstart ROMs.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 18, 2017, 02:22:10 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822339
[ KICKSTART 1.2 ROM Installed ]

One neat hack, is that you can use a 1MB Eprom and burn 3 Kick start images to a single chip,  and install a 3 way switch or jumper to select between the starting addresses for each kickstart.  

http://bax.comlab.uni-rostock.de/en/hardware/amiga500/kickstart-eprom/

Ive tried it with my programmer and it works fine.  (:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 05:40:03 AM
Quote from: darkage;822359
One neat hack, is that you can use a 1MB Eprom and burn 3 Kick start images to a single chip,  and install a 3 way switch or jumper to select between the starting addresses for each kickstart.  

http://bax.comlab.uni-rostock.de/en/hardware/amiga500/kickstart-eprom/

Ive tried it with my programmer and it works fine.  (:
Now that is COOL!!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 05:58:03 AM
Booted with KICKSTART 1.2 (Original ROM) (** A ton of clues **)

So with the KICKSTART 1.2 ROM in place things are certainly different.

- FIRST, those Workbench disk that I thought were Totally corrupt and were crashing (ARE NOT CRASHING!!!) they Load!!

- I have to rebuild some new Workbench 1.2 Disks and Load up Bridgeboard Software.

BUT THIS what I get when I try to start with that original Working DISK Labelled  "AMIGA/PC"

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2051/32922998186_d378631886.jpg)

** JANUS Handler Not Loaded !! Interesting **


- So looks like the true error message I was missing on the other Kickstart ROM.

Does this mean the Bridgeboard is BAD?  Probably not.  It's SW or something else.

- And what's interesting if I click on the PC WINDOW (8088 PC boots DOS6.2 up from the 5.25" Floppy)
** BUT the BRIDGEBOARD PC, is still having that C: Drive MBR pick up problem **

Does this mean I just need some disk fix up (who know what I did to it 2 years ago)
What I mean disk fix up.  It start Workbench built from Scratch Clean.

*** AT WHAT's really interesting, is the Bridgeboard install Manual SPECIFICALLY SAID I need to set 8088 PC memory to E000 for my 8088 bridgeboard (( A MUST, highlighted in the manual ))**  
*** When I had other Kickstart ROM, It kept defaulting to D000, and I couldn't change it VIA PC-Preferences, because PC-Preferences would CRASH attempt change to E000
**** I just tried the change NOW, and it worked Perfectly, It's set to E000 as it should be.  Maybe next boot might be good.


Lot's of work ahead of me.
At least I have the original Setup that used to work.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 06:20:09 AM
** WOW !!! ***  Many of my 3.5" Floppy GAMES I thought the were AGE-CORRUMPTED are now working :)

When I was going thru my box of Original GAME disks, many of them were not working (INSTANTLY CRASHED the Amiga)

I was considering Formatting them to use as empty disks!!
(since I thought they were bad)
Glad I left them alone.  They are working with the KICKSTART 1.2 (I recently read that some games won't work on higher kickstart ROM).  I have a bunch.

Super Cool, my Game Collection has just doubled.

Will be able to load up that GOTEK with some (Rare Games) if some of they are not available for Download.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 09:25:25 AM
ANOTHER MYSTERY SOLVED (RLL Drive) Losing MBR (proven)

I put the AMIGA Workbench RESTORE aside. To much to do.

But since I noticed the same LONG  PULSING LED behavior on the RLL drive (using Kickstart 1.2), it got me thinking to test that drive more.

So I got the RLL drive recognized in the 486 using the 8 Bit Western Digital RLL Controller (and I still have a Floppy off the 16 Bit Hard drive Controller)

(The trick was exactly the same as the ISA-IDE Adapter)
----> DISABLE in BIOS all the Hard drive, Leave Floppy Drive active.

And to my surprise the drive acts just as weird as in the 8088 PC.

->
Same LONG  PULSING LED behavior at boot trying to pick up MBR.
-> I format it using DEBUG (Using LL BIOS Format on WD Controller)
-> After LL-Format.(Partition, Format)..Looks perfect.  Ran Ranish Partition Manager, DOS SCAN DISK. PERFECT 100%
-> Reboot computer a few times and MBR disappears.  C: drive gone.
-> ALSO after a good format (The Drive won't boot as a C: Drive, even if visible), exactly the same as on the Amiga 8088 Bridgeboard PC.
 
I have no idea why this is happening.
If the drive was defective, Low Level Format would pick it up.
If the drive was defective, all those INTENSE SCANS using multiple tools would have picked up something.

It's purely the MASTER BOOT RECORD, and BootSector of drive (which is on Sector 0)

SO BASICALLY the Summary is:

Bridge board is Fine, or at least the part about not booting from the RLL drive.  It tries just like the 486 but can't for a good reason.

The RLL drive is acting weird!! (on both computers).  It works perfect when MBR is Picked up.  Or when MBR is in DOS memory.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 18, 2017, 09:34:24 AM
"Pure bit not set" errors are due to the fact many DOS commands were made reentrant in 2.04 and sequent versions of AmigaOS and can be made resident in memory.
As long as 1.2 does not support attributing "p"ure bit flag to the commands, thus it feels a bit astray, but nothing that could harm your system or Bridgeboard.

JanusHandler not running error IMHO is simply due to the fact system must load other libraries first, and initialize JanusHandler only in the end. PCDisk should be as one of the last commands to be run by the system.

Try put it in the end of Startup or put some delays as void cycles in the Startup in order to give your system  enough time to let all libraries and Handlers being loaded.

It could be also possible that some resident commands performed operations that are needed by Bridgeboard.
Make explicit calls to these commands before PCDisk is executed by Startup (you must be sure for example all Assigns were performed by real command existing phisically in "C" directory and not by "resident" command ones).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 18, 2017, 09:56:31 AM
I am starting wondering if your 8088 BIOS that it is so antiquated is afflicted by Year2000 bug so it sometimes causes conflicts when loading filesystem, or MBR.

I still own a 486DX2 clocked at 66MHZ and I never experienced problems of BIOS as it is enough modern it stores infos with correct MMDDYYYY format system, but I encountered problems with ancient computers storing date in MMDDYY format.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 18, 2017, 10:05:57 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822370
** WOW !!! ***  Many of my 3.5" Floppy GAMES I thought the were AGE-CORRUMPTED are now working :)

When I was going thru my box of Original GAME disks, many of them were not working (INSTANTLY CRASHED the Amiga)

I was considering Formatting them to use as empty disks!!
(since I thought they were bad)
Glad I left them alone.  They are working with the KICKSTART 1.2 (I recently read that some games won't work on higher kickstart ROM).  I have a bunch.

Super Cool, my Game Collection has just doubled.

Will be able to load up that GOTEK with some (Rare Games) if some of they are not available for Download.

I suppose that trackdisk.device (and DiskHandler resource?) has (have?) been changed and heavy patched during AmigaOS evolution.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 18, 2017, 12:29:59 PM
FYI - Someone is building & selling your XT CF ISA card on another Amiga forum.  Probably a good place to ask questions about it if you need to in the future.

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?81846-Fully-assembled-XT-IDE-CF-adapter!-Taking-orders!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: utri007 on February 18, 2017, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: leofoe;822323
My A2000 with Kickstart 3.1 rom and Workbench 3.9 works fine with it's Bridgeboard.


This is not helpfull. :( You must have at least 68020 cpu. How have you setupped your bridgeboard software?

I have :

1. A2000 with 68030, ks 3.1 and Commodore 8088 bridgeboard (lattest bios)

Works, but time to time it just disappears. Couldn't setup up hard disk partition for it. File hard disk works just fine.

2. A500 with 68000, GVP Impact series II scsi with SCSI2SD,  ks 3.1 and KCS Power PC board v2.

SetupHD program doesn't found any partitions, tried with 64mb, 512mb and 2gb sd cards.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 18, 2017, 03:41:14 PM
Wasnt Kickstart 2.04 the highest available at the time for a A2000 back in the day ?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 05:53:39 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822373
I am starting wondering if your 8088 BIOS that it is so antiquated is afflicted by Year2000 bug so it sometimes causes conflicts when loading filesystem, or MBR.

I still own a 486DX2 clocked at 66MHZ and I never experienced problems of BIOS as it is enough modern it stores infos with correct MMDDYYYY format system, but I encountered problems with ancient computers storing date in MMDDYY format.

Can't be Y2K anything.
I haven't put the Coin battery into Amiga Yet, it's running 199x time.
And same problem with 486.

I'm going to try this (C: drive RLL) (D: drive ISA-IDE-Adapter IDE Maxtor Drive) in the AMIGA.

Basically, I block the C: drive channel using the RLL Drive, to make the ISA-IDE adapter work as a D: drive.  

(this works on the 486 as shown below)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2607/32159064973_d477f07997.jpg)


If that works in AMIGA.  Then I have a HARD drive in my Amiga 8088 PC.  
GOOD enough if stable.

Stilll need a 5.25" Floppy to boot (my biggest drawback).

Can the GOTEK be a 5.25" Floppy with correct Firmware and jumpers?

If I can get that working with a D: Hard drive, I'm set (Gotek A: drive on 8088 (D: drive Has two partitions, DOS, Amiga)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 06:47:54 PM
TIME TO install the GOTEK (in Amiga)

To make my life easier to get all Fresh copies of Workbench, BB, etc

I'm going to Install the GOTEK. (to be my DF0: DF2:, and I'll be able to use my A1010 External drive as DF3:) Correct?

Did I get this right from my reading? (The GOTEK will read .dms files)

All the stuff on Amiga.resource.cx is downloadable in (.dms) format.

Instead of downloading and converting to .ADF, can I just put the .dms file on the USB stick?

My Window98 PC has all kinds of Software I downloaded couple years ago.
-Amiga Explorer
-ADFOpus
-ADFread

I forgot how to use this stuff.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 18, 2017, 07:11:00 PM
WOW, the GOTEK setup was Easy (less than 10 minutes of effort from Start to finish).

-Just ribbon cabled it to where Floppy was
-Put int USB with ADF Selector (Selector booted and worked.  No files)
-Copied a few ADF files on to USB
-Booted again to Selector
-Picked an ADF file (Save and Restart)
-Amiga Booted (Gotek LED showed "001")
-Game booted.

Wish everything else was this easy.

Now how to get the (DMS files over) is next.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 19, 2017, 02:49:11 AM
No updates on testing yet.  
Really busy setting up everything for a clean start, having all the tools I need to stop the fumbling.

Put aside the RLL Drive and ISA-IDE-Adapter (Separate future effort & my go into DOS/DISK forums to solve this on 486)
Also will wait for IDE-USB Adpater to arrive to see if that works on 8088 Amiga PC/486. (mini-Converter-cable arrived)

Just working with the Bridgeboard and 5.25" Floppy.
 
At this point got myself setup with (Clean/Reliable Floppies) AND:

1) Win95-PC with Internet (for downloading)
2) Amiga Explorer on Win95-PC

3) ADFopus FileManager on Win95-PC
3a) re-Learned how Explore and convert/view/extract (.dms) to (.adf)
3b) Learned how to make EMPTY (.adf) Images.
3b) Learned how to Copy Amiga Floppies to (.adf) file on PC.

4) Downloaded and prepared Clean:
4a) AmigaJanus Disk
4b) PC-Install Disk
4c) Bridgeboard DOS programs/utiltites
4d) Workbench 1.2
4e) Workbench 1.3
4f) Workbench 3.1 (Complete Set of disks)
4f) Workbench tools (Notepad, More, DiskSalv, SysInfo, etc)

5) Understood Benefits/Usage/Features of GOTEK (and drawbacks)
5a) Got some stuff loaded on Gotek USB for mix of tools (AExplorer, WB1.2, WB1.3, SysInfo, DiskCopy, etc)

6) Experimented with WinUae
6a) Extracted my Amiga2000 Kickstart 1.2 ROM

7) Looked into HxC Gotek for DOS Floppy Emulation (5.25" 640k, etc) for 8088 Bridgeboard.

Ready to start the clean from scratch build and testing.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: Raffaele on February 19, 2017, 10:49:30 AM
Quote from: utri007;822383
This is not helpfull. :( You must have at least 68020 cpu. How have you setupped your bridgeboard software?

I have :

1. A2000 with 68030, ks 3.1 and Commodore 8088 bridgeboard (lattest bios)

Works, but time to time it just disappears. Couldn't setup up hard disk partition for it. File hard disk works just fine.


Have you tried disabling 68030 at boot menu and run Bridgeboard software only with 68000 standard CPU?

Quote from: wbrejnia;822408
No updates on testing yet.  
Really busy setting up everything for a clean start, having all the tools I need to stop the fumbling.

At this point got myself setup with (Clean/Reliable Floppies) AND:

1) Win95-PC with Internet (for downloading)


I hope Win95 is being protected behind reliable Firewall and modern Antivirus still supporting that ancient version OS! O_O
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: wbrejnia on February 19, 2017, 11:06:03 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822422
Have you tried disabling 68030 at boot menu and run Bridgeboard software only with 68000 standard CPU?
I hope Win95 is being protected behind reliable Firewall and modern Antivirus still supporting that ancient version OS! O_O
Not sure what you mean 68030 vs 68000.  How do I that.

Yes I have a firewall, actually two Firewalls, but why would I worry about that OLD OS.  I'm trying to get DOS6.2 working :) !  But I guess it is safer with no network.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 19, 2017, 12:07:47 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words!  I proved my Bridgeboard is good.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/576/32834010842_832b935fb2_z.jpg)

The E-book will be on sale next week :)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2893/32834010392_07e63f6f53.jpg)

Time for some Well Deserved Rest, till the IDE-Flash-Card- Adapter arrives.

WallyB
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 19, 2017, 12:56:30 PM
think your missing some machines from your picture..

just need a a500, a600, a1000, a1200, a3000, a4000  :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: Raffaele on February 19, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822423
Not sure what you mean 68030 vs 68000.  How do I that.

Yes I have a firewall, actually two Firewalls, but why would I worry about that OLD OS.  I'm trying to get DOS6.2 working :) !  But I guess it is safer with no network.

You said your A2000 is equipped with 68030 and Kickstart 3.1.

Try if Bridgeboard hangs up at loading PC MBR when running on 68030.

Kickstart 3.1 Boot Menu has feature to disable mounted Cards 8and also 68030)

So you could test if Bridgeboard works better with standard 68000 present on your machine.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: darkage on February 20, 2017, 12:42:00 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822442
You said your A2000 is equipped with 68030 and Kickstart 3.1.

Try if Bridgeboard hangs up at loading PC MBR when running on 68030.



Looking at the first page of this thread, sysinfo says 68k and picture inside case I dont see a accelerator..    OP was talking not too long ago about the topic of accelerators but I dont think he has one..  just a standard 68k.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: Raffaele on February 20, 2017, 01:30:48 PM
Quote from: darkage;822456
Looking at the first page of this thread, sysinfo says 68k and picture inside case I dont see a accelerator..    OP was talking not too long ago about the topic of accelerators but I dont think he has one..  just a standard 68k.


Whoops! I answered to utri007 and Wbrejnia at the same time, believing also Utri has problems. Wbrejnia answrered me and I assumed he was Utri, so I answered him trying disabling 68030... ^_^
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 20, 2017, 06:56:07 PM
QUICK UPDATE:

- I played with Low Level Formatting (Dynamic Parameters) on RLL Hard drive based on some reading, and it appears the RLL Drive is stable (MBR is picking up on Every boot so far :) )
- Still doesn't boot C: drive (could be other underlying reasons)  Autoboot??
- I don't trust things quite enough to start loading up software.

- I also played with the (Amiga df2: )HARD file setup that I have working to boot the BB-8088-PC
- Found out that plugging in Western Digital Controller doesn't change things. (still boots)
- BUT as soon as RLL drive is plugged into Controller (Active or NO-Active Partition) the AutoBoot disables on the Amiga (thus Hard File Booting stops working)

- I played with Aread/Awrite & Jlink (not working) but I am using old downloaded versions (Downloaded most current version and will try)

- I have a chance to see if the Bridgeboard PC will boot via the Lo-Tech ISA/IDE-Compact-Flasg-Adapter.
- The IDE to SD Card arrived today
   ---> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
- The IDE connector converter (Large-to-Small) arrived today
   ---> https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA66K2043381&cm_re=StarTech_BRACKET25_Adapter_Kit_to_Mount_2.5%22_HDD_in_3.5%22_Drive_Bay-_-11-993-005-_-Product
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 20, 2017, 11:36:49 PM
First Try will be 486 for ISA/SD-Card (Combo)

I have everything I need to try it out.
I was impressed that the seller included the Ribbon Cable (not shown in the Ebay Ad)

- Have to figure out 486 BIOS (Custom, or NO BIOS)
- Have to figure out how to Image, or will pure FDISK work?

We'll see. (This is a little bit of Mix-matched Technology).  Proper Compact Flash Adapter on the way.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/711/32867235462_bbd23655ea_c.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 12:13:58 AM
Darkage,

MANY thanks for E-Packet Idea.

I ordered a fish tank thing Dec 2016.
It never came (7 weeks waiting)  Two weeks ago I contacted Seller. They gave me refund (Package Lost)
I asked for replacement but this time E-Packet.
They agreed (Free Shipping).
It shipped Last Thursday, and Arrived TODAY (5 days from China-to-Canada)!!! INCREDIBLE!!

Many thanks!!! :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: EugeneNine on February 21, 2017, 12:18:31 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822423
I'm trying to get DOS6.2 working :) !  But I guess it is safer with no network.

There is a network add on and tcp/ip stack for dos.  IIRC it was part of the NTserver resource kit.
I had it working way back in the 90's
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 21, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822517
Darkage,

MANY thanks for E-Packet Idea.

I ordered a fish tank thing Dec 2016.
It never came (7 weeks waiting)  Two weeks ago I contacted Seller. They gave me refund (Package Lost)
I asked for replacement but this time E-Packet.
They agreed (Free Shipping).
It shipped Last Thursday, and Arrived TODAY (5 days from China-to-Canada)!!! INCREDIBLE!!

Many thanks!!! :)


 NP, I couldnt believe it myself when I read up about it.      Now its my preferred delivery method from china.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard) - Part II
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 02:16:55 AM
Quote from: EugeneNine;822518
There is a network add on and tcp/ip stack for dos.  IIRC it was part of the NTserver resource kit.
I had it working way back in the 90's
As if I need more challenges (for Bridgeboard 8088 PC).  Thanks for the information anyway.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 02:18:38 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822517
Darkage,

MANY thanks for E-Packet Idea.

I ordered a fish tank thing Dec 2016.
It never came (7 weeks waiting)  Two weeks ago I contacted Seller. They gave me refund (Package Lost)
I asked for replacement but this time E-Packet.
They agreed (Free Shipping).
It shipped Last Thursday, and Arrived TODAY (5 days from China-to-Canada)!!! INCREDIBLE!!

Many thanks!!! :)
Never mind that point.
I contacted seller to thank him, but when I opened box, the quantity was wrong.  Turns out this is Old Nov 3rd, 2016 Order (Finally came) :)
New E-packet replacement is still on the way. :(
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 21, 2017, 02:59:22 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822523
Never mind that point.
I contacted seller to thank him, but when I opened box, the quantity was wrong.  Turns out this is Old Nov 3rd, 2016 Order (Finally came) :)
New E-packet replacement is still on the way. :(


ha!  d'oh!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 03:12:01 AM
Tests coming up.......

I don't want to just go ahead an pop things into the Amiga and hope things works.  Since if the don't I'll be left wondering.

So a few tests in 486 should help set the baseline and make sure I got connections properly done.

If this mix of ISA-IDE-Compact-Flash-SDcard doesn't work, my only hope will be the True IDE-CompactFlash-Adapter, which should arrive this week.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2903/32180449444_f56f22eab7.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 07:34:41 AM
[486] [BIOS-Enabled] :  [IDE] -> [IDE-SDcard-Adapter -> 8GB-SD] Working like a charm (486 Screaming Fast for Disk IO)

- I couldn't risk Frying anything, so I checked the cabling pinouts (twice)
- Checked that the StarTech 2.5" to 3.5" Power connections were proper

- First Boot to BIOS picked up the 8 GB SD card :)
- But after BIOS exit. The system Hung, Power reboots failed. :(

Finally figured out the boot sequence was (C: B:) in BIOS, so was trying to boot C: Linux [Since SD card was re-used from RaspBerry PI)
Flipped BIOS to boot (A: Floppy) first that FIXED.

Some issues with Partitioning.  Couldn't modify or remove partition.

Then I did a "fdisk /mbr", that put a MBR with a Partition Cover Whole 8GB SD Card.  (Still not modifiable)

Then I noticed in FDISK the Option to REMOVE NON-DOS Partition.
-Remove the 8 GB Partition.
-Created new Partition 32 MB (ACTIVE) with DOS 6.2 [Max possible was 500MB or so]
-Formatted /s  ( ***** LIGHTNING SPEED, never seen a DOS format so fast **** )))
-Rebooted with NO Floppy in Drive.

It booted to DOS6.2.


RAN a few Dos Disk Tools on the SDcard(C: Drive).
Couldn't help laughing out loud seeing them scream on the 486, compared to IDE, or RLL drives (that I watched before).

** Moving on, to Replacing 486 BIOS, with  Lo-Tech-Adapter  on the same 486 **


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 21, 2017, 08:12:19 AM
Things went well with the 486 Adapter testings.
 Everything working perfectly.


Need just one more lucky break, testing in the Amiga.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2479/32183862094_9d930cfea5_b.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 22, 2017, 02:09:15 AM
NO LUCK.  Lo-Tech IDE adapter didn't work in Amiga 8088.

I contacted Lo-Tech support, they gave me another ROM to try.
The ROM is for TANDY laptop with a tweak to get around a problem with Initialization.  Learning how to Flash it on to adapter.

This has nothing to do with the IDE-adapter.  It's working in 486.
This is to do with the ISA side on 8088 (possibly).  INITIALIZATION.

The whole issue is about OPTION ROMs, which this card needs to have 8088 BIOS initialize.  If the 8088 Bridgboard PC BIOS doesn't search for OPTION ROMs, then (another Patch to ROM) may be needed.

However I can't see the 8088 PC not searching for OPTION ROMs since it does support the Western Digital Controller, and other cards that were supported on the 8 bit ISA bus side.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 22, 2017, 02:16:30 PM
Starting to move forwards toward finishing project.

The XTE ISA Patch never worked, hoping for another that will work

What's interesting, is the Hard Drive is working perfect (Other than auto booting).   After many reboots, it mount on the 8088 6.2 Dos each time.  
That RLL parameter (Precomposition 128), low level format may have done the job to wake up old Magenetic Material.

So I trust the RLL drive to start installing the final DOS applications, and will install Windows 1.2 for fun.

Need some help on a couple of annoying items.

1) Is there some Video parameter config somewhere.  When I use different workbench disks, the Workbench border moves around, a bit off the Amiga Monitor screen.  The mechanical controls on the monitor help for left and right, but not up down.

2)  This one is annoying.  I know about the keyboard file maps, peeks at them.   But when I go into PC 8088 Emulation.   My "\" doesn't work.  It works on the amiga side.    Hard to copy files on the DOS side without that working.   Is there a good tool to fix this?

3) What is really weird, but not the end of the world, is I've downloaded all current libraries and SW.

Alink, Aread, Atime, etc Doesn't work (I run Adisk, and Jdisk.sys)

When I run Alink now it produce the multi Line message, and hangs.  Before it just hung.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 22, 2017, 05:35:36 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822571

Need some help on a couple of annoying items.

1) Is there some Video parameter config somewhere.  When I use different workbench disks, the Workbench border moves around, a bit off the Amiga Monitor screen.  The mechanical controls on the monitor help for left and right, but not up down.


Not sure if supported on WB 1.2, but on Amiga Prefs there should be an Overscan tool, to tweak display position and area. Its exasperating problem dealing with pre WB2.0 Amigas booting off different floppies from different people - because monitors all setup individually.

Much easier when you are just booting from one WB system partition on  HD.

Quote from: wbrejnia;822571

2)  This one is annoying.  I know about the keyboard file maps, peeks at them.   But when I go into PC 8088 Emulation.   My "\" doesn't work.  It works on the amiga side.    Hard to copy files on the DOS side without that working.   Is there a good tool to fix this?

Amiga keyboards come in two basic styles - the American style with big Return and Left Shift keys, and the International style with extra keys to the right of Left Shift and to the left of the Return key. These are hardware mapped to key positions 2B and 30.

However, Bridgeboard keyboard driver probably assumes American keymap, so key should be remapped to a different place, as American Bridgeboard users would not have had the "/" key in the same place.

Check around, you might have to hack a keymap file, but more likely if you select USA keymap, the key will be mapped to a different key and will become available.

Quote from: wbrejnia;822571
3) What is really weird, but not the end of the world, is I've downloaded all current libraries and SW.

Alink, Aread, Atime, etc Doesn't work (I run Adisk, and Jdisk.sys)

When I run Alink now it produce the multi Line message, and hangs.  Before it just hung.

No idea on that front. I assumed you would be happy enough to just dump the data from the RLL drive on an IDE hard drive. Which it looks to me like you can do, by using the 486...

... on the other hand, if you do get the SD card booting on the Bridgeboard with all Amigaside access too, would be a sweet system.

Perhaps you need to put DOS 3 on the SD card rather than 6.2? Strikes me that a lot of issues could be avoided if that can be accomplished.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 22, 2017, 05:52:21 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;822574
Amiga keyboards come in two basic styles - the American style with big Return and Left Shift keys, and the International style with extra keys to the right of Left Shift and to the left of the Return key. These are hardware mapped to key positions 2B and 30.

However, Bridgeboard keyboard driver probably assumes American keymap, so key should be remapped to a different place, as American Bridgeboard users would not have had the "/" key in the same place.

Check around, you might have to hack a keymap file, but more likely if you select USA keymap, the key will be mapped to a different key and will become available.

Yes, I was going to try to hack they keyboard map file.  It appears to be documented within.  If I want to try International how/where do I switch it.
Quote from: Pat the Cat;822574
No idea on that front. I assumed you would be happy enough to just dump  the data from the RLL drive on an IDE hard drive. Which it looks to me  like you can do, by using the 486...

... on the other hand, if you do get the SD card booting on the  Bridgeboard with all Amigaside access too, would be a sweet system.

Perhaps you need to put DOS 3 on the SD card rather than 6.2? Strikes me  that a lot of issues could be avoided if that can be accomplished.
Interesting that you should mention this.  In the back of my mind, and in the past I have always been thinking two things.
 Switch back C: drive to DOS3.1, and thus switch back to a LOWER FAT version of MBR. The BIOS on the AMIGA-BB could be confused with DOS6.2 MBR/FAT.
I bet that BIOS was written, while DOS6.1 wasn't around. (But it didn't boot in the 486, but I never tried since I got RLL drive stable [must try again])
Will try DOS3.1 anyway, and if it works Amazing.  
And as you say, if I get that Adapter to work (not given up yet), it will be icing on the cake (Mission accomplished)

BTW. Pat, nice to hear from you again.  Was thinking you took a Vacation of something.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 22, 2017, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822575
Yes, I was going to try to hack they keyboard map file.  It appears to be documented within.  If I want to try International how/where do I switch it.

IIRC keymaps are kept on Extras disk on 1.2.

Amiga cannot tell what sort of keyboard is plugged in, User has to select from Preferences. Usually list is kept in devs/keymaps folder I think... Been a long time since I set one on a 1.2 Amiga.

So USA keyboard and keymap is "generic". Should work all Amigas.

In theory should also work on all applications. Obvously this last point not always true, as programmers often use the 2 extra keys in their software, not realizing some Amigas don't have them).

I've been having a lot of internet issues, very slow connection, horrible OS Linux issue I think. Was like 200 times slower than normal.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 22, 2017, 08:03:53 PM
Pat,

Just to be clear. Keyboard is fine on amiga side. using CMd or notepad.
All key are correct, like "\"

Problem is I don't get blackslash in DOS prompt on 8088 pc.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on February 22, 2017, 08:23:03 PM
It will be on different key somewhere. Maybe with Shift too. American keyboards have \ character on | key top right of keyboard. International usually puts it bottom left of the keyboard next to left shift.

It is not like you could not use International keyboards with Bridgeboards, just that such keyboards were designed to add extra keys. Things like Kroner, French Franc, Deutschark symbols. Also accents in French, umlauts in German.

You might need to set USA keyboard to find the / character on a working key - all keyboards work with that, but setting a different keymap if you have a USA keyboard means some characters are unavailable.

Truth to tell, I nearly always found sticking with a USA keymap to be most compatible.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 12:13:53 AM
(Retro Computing Device) What is it?  What's inside? (Challenge)

I drove down to my Parents place today, and while there decided to look around the Garage Attic. With hope to find my ROM Burner Project. (Hey, to flash a ROM to upgrade my Bridgeboard).

I never found it, but this thing caught my attention.

I never really noticed it before, but it's been there for a VERY long time. (Or maybe my dad just pick it up at a garage sale ages ago).  Maybe I did. I have no idea.
My Dad used to use it to prop up his wood trailer.
It caught my attention today   since I've spent more time this last month around Retro, and storage media than ever in my life.

So I have a challenge. Can you guess what this is? (I don't yet).  What is inside?
Maybe an RLL drive, or some spare ribbon cables which I need :)


The sticker on the bottom does have model #, and name that I don't recognize.
I'll take it into my shop and crack it open (literally) to find out what it is.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/308/32678954570_bfe5f065d6_c.jpg)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 12:16:30 AM
So the Challenge question is.

What is it?  How old/ What year/Decade?

What's inside?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 01:59:51 AM
LOOK WHAT WAS (Inside the Ancient Device ) !

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2778/32906170112_c139e7d8a1_z.jpg)

Kidding :)  That was inside my mailbox.

Maybe it will work better than the SD adapter.  Hoping!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 03:55:18 AM
Steve Gibson from Spinrite just contacted me.

He offered  to help in the RLL drive quest.

He provided me a copy of Spinrite 3.1 which he says is Ideal for my purpose.

I really want to test that RLL drive, and now that I have it working on both the 8088 and the 486, this test will be ideal.  I'd hate to spend time setting it up (with no "\" on keyboard to copy which is tricky), and they have MBR disappear and all work gone.

Stay tuned.  I'll post the testing results.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 05:46:12 AM
The Lo-Tech ISA/IDE is more than an Adapter (It's a 28 pin ROM Burner) * Shadow ROM in PC BIOS must be disabled *

I just learned this after trying to change the ROM Image (for a patch) on my LoTech Adapter.

The Version of the Adapter I have is:
https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Lo-tech_8-bit_IDE_Adapter_rev.3

Is a Universal unit, that has a Built in Flash Burner.  I think all of them do this.

That's 28 pin rom is Silicone Storage Technology ROM that can be burned over and over again.
http://www.jotrin.com/product/parts/39F010A_70_4C_WH

So you can burn any image into the CHIP, even if you have a computer board with a 28pin ROM.  The basic concept could be expanded to more pins. Using the ISA bus on your PC and the Flash Software which will run in DOS + the image you want to burn.

I first struggled and it didn't work for me. Then Lo-tech support asked me to check I didn't have ROM shadowing turn on at the Adress I was burning to. C800h.  

Sure enough my 486 was set for Shadow ROM=Intro-486

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3835/32249303243_a58c938675_o.jpg)

As soon as I disabled it, it flashed in a split second.

Interesting to know you can build a ROM burner for a few bucks.
And chips are dirt cheap too.

Not that you need this technology any more for daily use.
But in the Retro world,  I wish I could upgrade my Bridgeboard BIOS
Wonder how many pins that chip is?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 05:59:20 AM
THIS MIGHT be KEY to getting Janus Working (ARead, Write, etc) Properly on Bridgeboard PC.

I stumbled upon this email some guy wrote back in 1993.
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/amiinfo/reviews/A2386SXBridgeb.txt

He explains what Janus files need to go into PC DOS side and where!!
Something the Manuals doesn't explain. "Manual just refer to DOS manual"
Also things the Auto install doesn't do.

I noticed I had these files from my Bridgeboard SW download, but didn't copy them over.

Some of them are certainly for the 286/386 bridgeboard, but it's hard to tell which ones are needed beyond Jdisk.sys (maybe no more for 8088).

Plus as discussed above, some older versions of these files, like "fdisk provided" don't like DOS 6.2 and if you get other copies, don't like DOS3.

Another puzzle to solve, since all my solutions so far force me to have a 5.25" floppy to boot, and still have a C: Hard drive.

I don't like that, since 5.25 disk are not reliable.

The Hard file solution I got working, will only work if Hard Drive controller is removed.

I need to have the 8088 boot without a 5.25" floppy.
"Jlink is the only way" without a bootable "C:" Hard Drive.

(One or the other must work for me)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 23, 2017, 06:47:47 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822594
(Retro Computing Device) What is it?  What's inside? (Challenge)


Looks like something from the 90's.. reminds me of something that either SGi, Sun or Digital would bring out.....  at first I wanted to say SGI but no funky colours, logo or unique shapes.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 09:33:36 AM
WOW!  A paper (typed and hand drawn diagrams) copy of Amiga Training Manual (Course)
(Including many details on architecture of A2000 Components, Signals, Bridgeboards, Bridgeboard Install steps)


https://computerarchive.org/files/comp/hardware/amiga/Amiga_Training_Course.pdf
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 23, 2017, 10:09:00 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822571
Starting to move forwards toward finishing project.

The XTE ISA Patch never worked, hoping for another that will work

What's interesting, is the Hard Drive is working perfect (Other than auto booting).   After many reboots, it mount on the 8088 6.2 Dos each time.  
That RLL parameter (Precomposition 128), low level format may have done the job to wake up old Magenetic Material.

So I trust the RLL drive to start installing the final DOS applications, and will install Windows 1.2 for fun.

Need some help on a couple of annoying items.

2)  This one is annoying.  I know about the keyboard file maps, peeks at them.   But when I go into PC 8088 Emulation.   My "\" doesn't work.  It works on the amiga side.    Hard to copy files on the DOS side without that working.   Is there a good tool to fix this?


To obtain national keyboards in MS-DOS you must have two commands on your floppy and add one line to config file called Config.sys and one line to Autoexec.bat (that is the corrispective to S:Startup-Sequence in Amiga).

Commands are Country.sys and Keyb.com. They should be present on DOS floppy that makes PC startup.

First parameter is country, followed with codifing of kind of alphabet.
Latin alphabet is the most common and its codenumber is 850.

Here are codes for nations. USA is obviously 001. For my country Italy country code is 039.

To add correct parameters for my keyboard I should add these parameters to file Config.sys with a text editor.

COUNTRY=039,850,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS

And I should add this command to file Autoexec.bat:

KEYB IT

Here follows the list of main country codes.

http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/AppuntiLinux/a2860.htm#almlanchor17140

Here is the list of keyboard two digit codes:

http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/AppuntiLinux/a2860.htm#almlanchor17159

If you want to know more about Config.sys and Autoexec.bat read this document. It is in italian, but it may be Google translated and you can find useful infomations about MS-DOS commands and parameters at startup.

http://wwwcdf.pd.infn.it/AppuntiLinux/a2860.htm

Now that you are aware of it, you can found similar info pages in English or your native language.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 23, 2017, 10:24:13 AM
In the document that I suggested you to read, I found some informations on command DRIVEPARM (drive parameters) that I never recall I ever used in DOS times, as I just barely dealt with Config.sys except to edit keyboard parameters and RAM memory EMS parameters, move all memory in the space out 640KBs and obtain 704KB for DOS instead than usual 640KB. It may be useful for you to make hard drive (sectors, cylinders) being correctly initilized by MS-DOS.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 23, 2017, 10:45:26 AM
USEFUL HINT

In MS-DOS just as like in Windows, if you are typing, despite of the keyboard you are using, you may add any character of the standard ASCII sequence by simply pressing and holding ALT on the keyboard followed by numeric keyboard insertion from 0 to 255.

ALT+126 obtains for example tilde character "~".
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822612
USEFUL HINT

In MS-DOS just as like in Windows, if you are typing, despite of the keyboard you are using, you may add any character of the standard ASCII sequence by simply pressing and holding ALT on the keyboard followed by numeric keyboard insertion from 0 to 255.

ALT+126 obtains for example tilde character "~".
Raffaele,

Everything in above 3 posts is Super!  

- Going to setup  DOS keyboard properly (top priority, since missing '\' is insane when trying to do file manipulation)

- Now I know what to do with those Extra files provided with the Bridgeboard DOS installs disks.  (Some may not apply to 8088 , but that DRIVEPARM looks interesting I saw it in my 486 machine setup)

AND your KEYBOARD (ALT+xxx) trick is Amazing.
(I actually need that for general use)

Here is a very good A-Z DOS setup guide.   (too much for my 8088, but covers everything)
http://legroom.net/howto/msdos
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 03:09:50 PM
Anyone have any info on Bridgeboard BIOS Rom Upgrades?

The Lo-Tech Flash ROM chip matches the ROM chip on the Bridgeboard.
If I can get a  copy of the Upgrade ROM image, I can have it installed for testing purposes

- (Proof that it will it work to fix IDE/Flash-Drives).
- Possibly fix the C: drive boot issue too.

If BB BIOS Upgrade works, that would be a big improvement.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: leofoe on February 23, 2017, 05:24:58 PM
I think this thread may have useful information for you.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395 (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 23, 2017, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: leofoe;822623
I think this thread may have useful information for you.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395
This thread is amazing.  :) :) :)  Links within are even better.
There is a link to technical manual with all the RAW keycodes, especially for my missing "\"

I'll need days to read this stuff.
Title: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 03:57:17 AM
All Test results.  For ISA Storage Solutions for 8088 Bridgeboard PC.

All I wanted was a 8088 PC that would boot without the 5.25" Floppy.

The hard file solution works for a C: drive, but having to use a 3.5" Amiga Side Floppy isn't acceptable, since for it to work, I have to remove the WD controller and RLL Drive.
I did think of stripping down a Workbench disk with small C: HardFile, and putting it into Gotek for  boot.  But what value is a few byte for a C: drive.

I've left this with Lo-tech support, begging James Pearce for some debugging tools, or patch ROM on adapter to get it working.

Here is the summary of results, after Syba Compact Flash Adapter also failed to work on Lo-tech ISA/IDE Adapter.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/605/32955273971_23c3c4d832.jpg)

Considering the money I spend and the time wasted I would have been better off overpaying for a Amiga Side Hard drive solution.
Then I could use the Hard File Solution for a C: drive, and sell the WD/RLL drive.

If I can get the Jdisk/Jlink solution working and a Amiga side Link C: File, that would allow me to have the RLL drive as a D: Drive
That would be acceptable
and my next real big effort.  I did try dos 3.3 to see if RLL would boot.  No luck

Now I need a break.  Taking family away for a weekend getaway, and will be nice to get away from the Amiga and my RETRO LAB.


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 04:56:35 AM
Here is a picture of the Bottom of that Mystery box.

I think this is what is is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_Technologies

Interesting.  The Wiki talks about McDonald Douglas the Air Craft company that built DC10 airplanes.
My dad worked in Tool and Die for 40 years at Mc Donald Douglas Canada (wing Division, Tool and Die)
Maybe he got it from some scrap area for a Trailer stool. :)
There might be a 8088 and few spare roms in there, and the 5.25" Drive, may be better than my 360K in the Amiga :(


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/654/32926598502_f7b532bbdd_z.jpg)

Have a nice weekend.

Wally
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 24, 2017, 06:02:10 AM
Now that looks like a real machine!  haha I would restore and play around with hardware like that.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5619&stc=1&d=1487916201
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 07:22:28 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822619
Anyone have any info on Bridgeboard BIOS Rom Upgrades?

The Lo-Tech Flash ROM chip matches the ROM chip on the Bridgeboard.
If I can get a  copy of the Upgrade ROM image, I can have it installed for testing purposes

- (Proof that it will it work to fix IDE/Flash-Drives).
- Possibly fix the C: drive boot issue too.

If BB BIOS Upgrade works, that would be a big improvement.

I will not touch Bridgeboard Bios as I think it is heavily patched to functioning with the dual environment.

However in the PDF file (Amiga Training Course) that was suggested some comments above, it is stated that it is a Phoenix Bios.

https://computerarchive.org/files/co...ing_Course.pdf

There is no info stating it is a standard BIOS, so be careful.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
USEFUL HINT

In MSDOS when you want to copy files from a disk to another and you have only one disk mechanic you can use command COPY with this parameters

Copy A: A:

And you will be prompted to insert origin and destination disk when necessary.

Copy A:\command.com A:

Copies file command.com from origin disk to destination disk that requires be put in mechanic at request prompt.

On some advanced bios roms I found also this trick:

Copy A: B: even if you have only A: Mechanic

It worked the same as Copy A: A:

but it is very rare to found such useful trick implemented.

Also invoking disk B: at prompt let you use a second disk as there were two drive mechanics.

B:

Changes work directory to disk B:

You will be prompted to insert another disk.

I remember it worked for me on a couple PCs I used at University and in an office.

On the vaste majority of bios roms it caused an error.


[EDIT]

Take care of the fact I made suggestions using my memory recalls and integrating it with documents I found online. Some of my suggestion may be prove being false in the end, as my memory can be faulty.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 02:06:16 PM
I am just online reading Bridgeboard Manual from site http://www.traumstation.ch that was linked some comments above.

At Chapter 4 pag 19 (and forward) manual stated how to make a PC Hard Drive recognized by Bridgeboard.

You must enter Bridgeboard Setup Utility with ConTRoL+ALT+ESCape three fingers keys sequence, and it has to be run at full PC screen (that can be invoked with Right Amiga + F)

You must move to Hard Disk 0/Hard Disk 1 invoice.

It will open a Table of Hard Disks recognized by the Janus, and you must  navigate with PageUP/PageDown keys to choose the correct drive geometry or the one that match closest your drive geometry.

Entry 40 for Hard Disk 0 and Entry 42 for Hard Disk 1 will allow you to insert manually the parameters.


Entry 41 for Hard Disk 0 and Entry 43 for Hard Disk 1 will read parameters right straight from Hard Disks electronics.


I think that this is the trick to make both your RLL disk and CF Card being recognized by Bridgeboard at the same time

Both RLL Drive and CF Card are mastered by their controller cards, so you must invoke latter two paramters 41 and 43 in the Bridgeboard Table of Hard Disks from Setup Utilility Screen.

Hewre is the link to manual:

http://www.traumstation.ch/hardware/Commodore/Amiga/A2286-A2386%20Bridgeboard/BridgeBoard%20Manual.pdf



[EDIT]


Also I find an important parameter from Bridgeboard Utility Screen called BIOS SHADOW.

You may find instructions at Chapter 5 page 38 of the manual.

When enabled it loads PC BIOS in Upper Memory to make it act with more speed. Check if it is enabled/disabled.

It may be the cause your Janus BIOS sometimes is not loaded in memory.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 03:10:02 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822594
(Retro Computing Device) What is it?  What's inside? (Challenge)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/308/32678954570_bfe5f065d6_c.jpg)

[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Quote from: darkage;822602
Looks like something from the 90's.. reminds me of something that either SGi, Sun or Digital would bring out.....  at first I wanted to say SGI but no funky colours, logo or unique shapes.

Yes it has 1990's design and it is modular on the front just as like japanese engineers preferred design for electronics. It recalls me of Sharp X68000 but it is not Sharp X68000.

Maybe it is some graphic station for Television Titling, and GFXs like Truevision Targa, or maybe it is some mainframe for engineering CAD in automobile or aereonautics industry just as you suspected.

Can you made some close photos of the rear to check if there were engraved names of the connector ports?

Have you tried to post these photos on a Retrocomputing forum? You may have better chance of find what it is.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822672
Yes it has 1990's design and it is modular on the front just as like japanese engineers preferred design for electronics. It recalls me of Sharp X68000 but it is not Sharp X68000.

Maybe it is some graphic station for Television Titling, and GFXs like Truevision Targa, or maybe it is some mainframe for engineering CAD in automobile or aereonautics industry just as you suspected.

Can you made some close photos of the rear to check if there were engraved names of the connector ports?

Have you tried to post these photos on a Retrocomputing forum? You may have better chance of find what it is.

Here you go.
I might post a photo of this on Vintage Computer Forum http://www.vcfed.org (http://www.vcfed.org)
That is where I'm starting a thread for the ISA/IDE adapter troubleshooting.

The Vintage computer forum is having a big conference in March.
Maybe this computer thing is special and I can be guest speaker :)

Here is the photo. :( :( I better put it in the garage :( :(
To take photo I had to clear off a big spider.
My wife is terrified of any spider.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3936/32708877330_98bd0665e9_z.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822671
I am just online reading Bridgeboard Manual from site http://www.traumstation.ch that was linked some comments above.

At Chapter 4 pag 19 (and forward) manual stated how to make a PC Hard Drive recognized by Bridgeboard.

You must enter Bridgeboard Setup Utility with ConTRoL+ALT+ESCape three fingers keys sequence, and it has to be run at full PC screen (that can be invoked with Right Amiga + F)
...
[/url]



[EDIT]


Also I find an important parameter from Bridgeboard Utility Screen called BIOS SHADOW.

You may find instructions at Chapter 5 page 38 of the manual.

When enabled it loads PC BIOS in Upper Memory to make it act with more speed. Check if it is enabled/disabled.

It may be the cause your Janus BIOS sometimes is not loaded in memory.
Raffaelle,

Oh, I wish what you say worked.  That would be perfect.
I tried the CTRL-ALT-ESC many time before.
IT DOESN'T do anything.
Maybe part of my Keyboard map problem.  But I think not since CTRL works, ESC works and ALT works.

I think that is for higher Bridgeboards 386/486 that were made with newer BIOS.  That is why I keep thinking upgrading my Rev 3.5 Bios.

I HAVE A 8086 Bridgeboard, not the 386/486.


** IF SOMEONE HAS A 8088 Bridgeboard and they try CTRL-ALT-ESC at BIOS Boot **


But I think the boot loader in BIOS is pointing to my C: drive.

It must be the Boot block on the C: drive
It's won't boot (last time I tried in 486)

Plus it does try based on LED behavior to Boot from my RLL drive.

I disconnected the 5.25" floppy and look what happens

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2781/32963897561_6e45b2904d_z.jpg)

-The drive is (FORMATED /S)
-The drive is Parition (ACTIVE)
-The drive is a perfect C: drive, zero Errors.  Good file system.

What could BIOS want more for C: drive boot.  OLD Fat Boot Block?

That ADISK program does install a BOOT Block or something when it can't read Boot block.  Maybe I should Pull cable from RLL during ADISK.  Then put it back for the ADISK boot Block.

Maybe I should put RLL drive into 486, and play till I get it to boot (DOS version whatever)

Maybe install a mini Boot Loader on the Boot Sector of the Hard Drive???


Any more idea's
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 04:51:10 PM
[[[ IGNORE THIS POST ]]] I formatted the 5.25" floppy wrong format size, and it wasn't readable by Amiga PC 640K drive


I just replicated the behavior above.

- I booted my 486 off a original DOS 3.3 floppy
- I formatted a 5.25" floppy with "format"   (DOS 3.3 version)
- I did a "sys.com b:" of the 5.25" floppy

I put the 5.25" floppy in to the Amiga Bridgeboard PC (8086)

- I tried to boot the Amiga PC (with the Phoenix BIOS)
- Same message "Boot disk Failure.  Type any Key to retry"

AmigaPC (Pheonix BIOS) won't boot off the 5.25" floppy.  But the 486 will off the 3.5" DOS 3.3 original Disk. It booted with a DOS 6.2 Floppy.

THE AMIGA Pheonix BIOS wants something special.
Something in the MBR bootblock

I will play with Ramish Partition Manager to fix the B: disk, then do the same to the RLL drive.

Somehow clone the MBR from the Original DOS 3.3 Floppy.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 05:31:29 PM
[BIG CLUE from Ramish Parition Manager]


Look at this.
I ran an IDE controller check using Ramish.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2476/32965228601_a0c18229e5_z.jpg)

Maybe Ramish doesn't get things right.

But this shows there is no Primary or Secondary Controller or drive attached.
Yet the command is being run on PARTITION D: of the RLL Drive.

I'll have to put in the ISA/IDE Adapter, and see what Ramish picks up with same command.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 05:59:25 PM
Hang on.

"Part -i" is an IDE check.
The WD controller and RLL drive is NOT IDE.  It's ST-506

But the ISA/IDE Adapter is IDE.

So using "part -i" with the Adapter in 486 and 8086 will be a good comparison test.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 07:05:58 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822674
Raffaelle,

Oh, I wish what you say worked.  That would be perfect.
I tried the CTRL-ALT-ESC many time before.
IT DOESN'T do anything.
Maybe part of my Keyboard map problem.  But I think not since CTRL works, ESC works and ALT works.

I think that is for higher Bridgeboards 386/486 that were made with newer BIOS.  That is why I keep thinking upgrading my Rev 3.5 Bios.

I HAVE A 8086 Bridgeboard, not the 386/486.


** IF SOMEONE HAS A 8088 Bridgeboard and they try CTRL-ALT-ESC at BIOS Boot **


I went to AmigaResource.cx and I checked for Manual PDF file. Manual is common to Bridgeboard 8088 and 80286, and yes!

As you said, from some hints (Chapter 5 page 45, it is stated that 286 "has special Setup Utility".

Unfortunately so it seems that the Setup Utility is available starting from 286 Bridgeboard.

Quote
Any more idea's

From the same manual it seems that 8088 card should recognize automatically any hard drive controller xt card inserted into bus slot, so I dunno what is the problem.

I starting supposing that you must do installation with original DOS 3.3 disks provided with Janus XT Board and forget for a certain time the idea of using DOS 6.22.

Once you have setup BB and HD properly then you may think to made all updates to software.

A2088/A2286 Manual is available here:

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Appendix E (page 71) describes how to instal phisical Hard Drive to PC SIDE.

Somewhere in the manual I also read that installing real PC Hard Disk voids Autoboot from Autoboot PSEUDO Boot Drive into Amiga side. That could be another hint why you failed boot from autoboot virtual disk in your past tests.

It is stated in Appendis B page 58.

As long as it says to use FDISK command provided with Bridgeboard disks I think that this could be a clue to use 3.3 MSDOS Original Disks, and it stated clearly to set the partition as Active.

Maybe something changed from DOS 3.3 to 6.22 in FDisk command that may add some different sequences strings/hex-characters magic numbers in MBR to make an active partition.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822684
I went to AmigaResource.cx and I checked for Manual PDF file. Manual is common to Bridgeboard 8088 and 80286, and yes!
....

If AUTOboot get's diasabled on PC side (when Hard disk is installed) then I've FINISHED (PC side).
 It will never work the way I want it to on the DOS Side without a 5.25" floppy.
(I thought AutoBoot was only for Hard File across to Amiga)
(Why would they disable booting PC C: drive, and keep having to have a floppy, when you install a Hard Drive on ISA Bus).  
I THINK AutoBoot is only For 8088PC booting form AMIGA Hard file. (99% sure)

( I can see special behavior from testing.  If I setup Hard file in Workbench on DF2: and put in WD controller Boots from DF2: Hard file)
( If I used same workbench, but put in Hard Drive, it ignores Hard File)
( If I remove everything related to hard File, and remove df2:HardFile.  the Aboot.ctrl file left.  It complains big time it want's Hard file back,
If Put back HD Controller (same), but if I put back HD Controller(and cable up Hard Drive).  Autoboot HARDFILE errors go away, (df2L file missing), doesn't care because AutoBoot from AMIGA is no longer required.)
 
AUtoBoot does not disable the 8088 PC from booting (I hope)  I see it trying to boot.
After all (Boot from (A:  floppy boot is a PC AutoBoot.  Correct??) (C: drive is just another drive);  STANDARD BIOS/DOS/Bootblock technology

 (Janus talks to C: drive before A: drive lights up.  Then it comes back on C: drive a 2nd time).    
** that is different from normal PC **
** Normal PC doesn't try C: drive if A: is there **
** But this Hard drive check is JANUS checking to see if there is an AMIGA Parition there.  For DJmount to use, for Amiga to Boot from PC DISK Parition *

I am going to continue my efforts.  
The version of Dos 3.3 I have  (fdisk and even format is totally different.  Maybe MBR it creates is different for the OLD BIOS and needs to match)
[
What is interesting is Above DOS 3.3 you can run "fdisk /mbr" to create MBR on first Disk.  In DOS 3.3 that is not there.  Must be done only by "fdisk" interactive primary DOS parition Creation. ** FIRST TIME ONLY **  ]

I will do a video of the Boot and LED Pulses. and Post on YouTube.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what is left is to get PC Drive exposed to Amiga Side.
That is not working.  After Running Janus, I try to do a "Format DRIVE JH0: NAME Cdisk ffs", and it says "No handler"

Why are all these bit and pieces are not working?  Puzzles me.
Today I looked at my original Workbench disk that use to work.
The size of JANUS.library is much smaller.  Must have been an old version (but worked).  The disk is so corrupt I can't do much except look thru filesystem.

I am not starting any more big efforts, till after the weekend.
Must stay organized and do things from start to finish in one attempt.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 08:43:09 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822686
So what is left is to get PC Drive exposed to Amiga Side.
That is not working.  After Running Janus, I try to do a "Format DRIVE JH0: NAME Cdisk ffs", and it says "No handler"

Because you must have reserved enough Free Space on Hard Disk when formatting PC Hard Disk. If PC Hard Disk is of 40 MB, you must format PC Side with FDisk with a maximum of 307 Cylinders to obtain 20 Meg on PC side and then use first ADISK to create Amiga Partition.

Once You made a real Amiga Partition with ADisk, you must pass to the Amiga Side and you must invoke into a CLI window the DJMOUNT command, and only at this point you can format drive with command Format Drive JH0:

Again it is stated in Appendix E (page 71 and sseg.) from  the 2088/2286 Manual.

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Quote
Why are all these bit and pieces are not working?  Puzzles me.
Today I looked at my original Workbench disk that use to work.
The size of JANUS.library is much smaller.  Must have been an old version (but worked).  The disk is so corrupt I can't do much except look thru filesystem.

I am not starting any more big efforts, till after the weekend.
Must stay organized and do things from start to finish in one attempt.

You have links to many original DMS files on AmigaResource.cx. You can copy these DMS, create new disks and extract the libraries and Handlers from it.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 08:56:10 PM
On EAB-Abime site, at page 15 of discussion of Toni Wilen with people trying to make functioning XT-IDE Hard Disk (Virtual or not) with Bridgeboard Emluation on WinUAE.

They talk about XT-IDE Universal custom boot Rom to make hard disks being visible on  Bridgeboards...

Could it be that it will works on a solid hardware bridgeboard too?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=15
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 09:03:38 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822689
Because you must have reserved enough Free Space on Hard Disk when formatting PC Hard Disk. If PC Hard Disk is of 40 MB, you must format PC Side with FDisk with a maximum of 307 Cylinders to obtain 20 Meg on PC side and then use first ADISK to create Amiga Partition.

Once You made a real Amiga Partition with ADisk, you must pass to the Amiga Side and you must invoke into a CLI window the DJMOUNT command, and only at this point you can format drive with command Format Drive JH0:
My RLL Hard disk is 32Mb.
Original setup was DOS(11Mb) Amiga(21).
** INteresting that is was over 20 like you say **

Now my setup is DOS(20) Amiga(12).
Maybe that is the problem.

WHY DID they make JANUS so "Quiet".
No errors, no logs, when things are not right.
"The Handler message" says not much, or why.
I guess ROM space was precious back then.  Same for Floppy space.
Time have changed.

Ok I will increase Amiga Parittion to (21Mb) like before.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 09:06:09 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822691
On EAB-Abime site, at page 15 of discussion of Toni Wilen with people trying to make functioning XT-IDE Hard Disk (Virtual or not) with Bridgeboard Emluation on WinUAE.

They talk about XT-IDE Universal custom boot Rom to make hard disks being visible on  Bridgeboards...

Could it be that it will works on a solid hardware bridgeboard too?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=15

I need a customer ROM for my setup.
Will check that Forum out.  Exactly what I was looking for.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822692
My RLL Hard disk is 32Mb.
Original setup was DOS(11Mb) Amiga(21).
** INteresting that is was over 20 like you say **

Now my setup is DOS(20) Amiga(12).
Maybe that is the problem.

WHY DID they make JANUS so "Quiet".
No errors, no logs, when things are not right.
"The Handler message" says not much, or why.
I guess ROM space was precious back then.  Same for Floppy space.
Time have changed.

Ok I will increase Amiga Parittion to (21Mb) like before.

Do not forget launch DJMount from Amiga side and check also if there is a JH0 Mountlist entry in your DF0: DEVS/Mountlist directory, or perhaps JDisk Device also in Devs:

Here you can find info on mountlist files:

http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories

You may clone another mountlist, rename it, and add the correct parameters to it.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 09:23:33 PM
Yes, I will run DJMOUNT.
My "Startup sequence has print statements to say what is running and what not (ie DJmount, pcdisk).

Now that I know everything needed, all those OLD many tries (i may have missed something).

*** ONE INTERESTING behavior I noticed and mentioned before **
*** It's what actually DESTROYED my MBR when drive was not clean **
If you cannot read MBR, or after a LL Format when MBR is wiped
If you run ADISK before FDISK, it "Instantly says: No MBR and creates a MBR and 1 parition across whole disk. (No Choice to stop it, except power off)

I have Ranish "part -s".  And I can save a copy of MBR.  Delete all partitions.
Run ADISK.  Then try the FORMAT from Amiga side.

If it still doesn't fix things.  I can use Ramish " part -l: " and bring back old Paritions with my files I copied in,  back :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822696
Yes, I will run DJMOUNT.
My "Startup sequence has print statements to say what is running and what not (ie DJmount, pcdisk).

OK!

Quote
If you run ADISK before FDISK, it "Instantly says: No MBR and creates a MBR and 1 parition across whole disk.

Well starting creating just a working Amiga Partition could be a first milestone too...

Quote
[/B]If it still doesn't fix things.  I can use Ramish " part -l: " and bring back old Paritions with my files I copied in,  back :)

I wonder what will happen if you copy a working MBR from another PC Formatted Hard disk with same characteristics... UHM!

Is there somewhere an online collection of MBRs?

And how to replace/create a good Partition Table with correct DOSTYPE identifiers into the MBR?


[EDIT]


BTW what is maximum Hard Drive size recognized by IBM XT 8088 and DOS 6.22?


[EDIT2]


Here it is a link to a discussion of PC Users encountering and resolving problems replacing 40MB old Conner Hard Disk with Compact Flash on a 286 PC:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-47012.html

I hope it could be of some help.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 09:49:03 PM
Well going up to the root I find this is a really golden mine useful Forum:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/f-16.html

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php

:D


[EDIT]

Another useful discussion:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-246.html
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 09:57:33 PM
I tried the IDEA of making Amiga Parition on C: drive 32 mb   (>20mb).

Nope it didn't change anything. Same as before.

I do notice that if  you type "assign" command, before running DJmount, there is no "JH0", but after "DJmount" there is a "JH0"

But why is JH0 handler not good for the Format. (it is assigned, and  is in SYS:devs/JDisk.device)

What is "Handler"?  Is there some file that need to define the handler for DISK (SECTORS, HEAD, etc)  "A MOUNT LIST ENTRY for JH0:" i have none
Just like what is needed for a AMIGA Hard disk. (but nothing in the manual says PC disk needs a mount list).  

I tried to create a MOUNTLIST for JH0: but not described.  Plus the MOUNT list mounts the devices.  And my screenshot show JH0: assigned & mounted after DJmount
The only thing that is close is a mwm.device which is a CROSSDOS mount. (which I don't use)

Or does Janus get that thru the Bridgeboard to the Controller on PC side....(I think so, thus the JH0: showing in assign command)
the Handler is auto loaded, but not available (in my case. Something missing). [I remember looking at my MOUNT list on Original working FLoppy.  Noting inside except examples.  And PC mountlists go into DOSDrivers Drawer.

(That Ramish tool is nice.  I loaded back MBR after destroying all 3 partitions.  All is back. :) :) :) )


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2649/32969070681_db8634ede2_o.jpg)

Thanks for the other reading material for Hotel room at night.
I am almost finished with Amiga and starting mini vacation with family.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 24, 2017, 10:04:17 PM
If you are using Kickstart 1.2 maybe it refuses recognizing FFS (FastFileSystem) Partition. Try just DJMount and Format without FFS parameter.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 24, 2017, 10:38:30 PM
I did some more reading.

the DOSdrivers is a new concept in AmigaOS.

No needed in workbench 1.2

I would have to move to WB1.3, and to do that put back Kickstart1.3

Maybe later..... (I was working with WB/Kickstart 1.3 a while ago)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 25, 2017, 05:09:05 AM
LET'S TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT (IF C: Drive Won't Boot MS DOS)

I've been thinking.  When I was reading MBR stuff and bootblocks, the BIOS just load things in chains.

It doesn't have to be DOS, it doesn't have to be Linux.
Just something that is compiled for the processor.

All the Boot code needs is access to the Standard Out Character Screen and possibly keyboard.

If the BIOS truly is trying to boot from Bootblock then unless the Commodore/Phoenix BIOS had something special for DOS, it should boot anything.  Even the manual say's that partitions can be another OS other than DOS.

So let's try this (My favourite Program) RANISH!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQGWriEx2ik

I'll try that when I get back Sunday.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 25, 2017, 05:40:16 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822713
So let's try this (My favourite Program) RANISH!!

Oh my... I created another Ranish Addicted! :D
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 25, 2017, 01:37:57 PM
Useful informations:

Old Bios chips and Hard Drive sizes barriers are explained in detail here:

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/resolving_drive_barriers.htm


Volume Boot Record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_boot_record


What is Partition Alignment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_alignment


And its Majesty MBR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 12:20:42 AM
I'm BACK.  With a TESTING PLAN.

So I spend last couple of days away from the Amiga.  Was a nice break.

( I did catch up reading some of your posts. Thank you for providing.  I like the one that described that JANUS loads before ISA/Adapters and how they are read into memory order)

I did daydream about next steps (Especially during the countdown on this attraction :) :( https://www.greatwolf.com/niagara/waterpark-attractions/swim-splash-slide/wolf-tail

and have formulated a good plan.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A) The Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter problem on the Bridgeboard has been submitted to another FORUM.   Added to thread  on The Vintage Computer Forum, and James the developer of the Lo-Tech Adapter is there with me.  Hoping to get support from the Universal BIOS X-IDE guru's.  This appears to be a Adapter Initialization problem.

Here is the POST on Vintage Computer Forum:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?17986-XTIDE-Universal-BIOS/page35

The only thing I'll be doing is some comparison test (BB/486) using RANISH (part -i) command.  It shows IDE drives and memory Location/Interrupt.

But this will be for other forum post.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B) Tackle the Boot C: Drive problem.

For the C: Drive (WD Controller/RLL HD) boot issue. I am moving things to the 486.

0)  If I remember correctly the RLL Drive Combo, never booted in the 486, so it must be something in common. (Something with the Boot Image or Drive itself)

1a ) Plan is to look into the Boot Image (Using Disk Edit, down to the actual Boot Block)
1b ) I will also look into the Image of the bootable C: drive (using the HARD File on DF2:floppy via Amiga ABoot.init Boot method THAT WORKS).  
  ** Is there anything different about the Partition, Bootblock, etc **

2a) I will try and FIRST get the RANISH boot selector program working on the 486 (WITH THE MAXTOR IDE Drive [MOtherboard BIOS driven] & [NO BIOS using Lotech)
** This worked both was using Standard DOS 6.2

2b) If I can get RANISH boot working on 486/Maxtor, then I'll try the same using RLL Drive

I believe above should either confirm things won't Ever Work (a dead end), or maybe with luck get some things working.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If none of the above works, all I will be left with is to test further trying to get Jdisk/Jlink/Aread/Awrite working.


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 04:32:33 AM
[PLAN B]  - RLL Image Dump recovery onto [A Working Hard Disk- Seagate Maxtor IDE drive]

(Very Tricky but possible)

I forgot about this option I have.

I have a "Fragment Image" copy of the original RLL C: Drive Partition.
The files I dumped onto 640K floppies and saved to USB stick.

-I have a copy of all the sectors of the [Original RLL Drive - Bridgeboard Hard Disk]  (PARtITION 1, DOS).
-Only the first couple of sectors were missing (filled with 00h, since Disk Editor couldn't read).  The area that contained the MBR.
-If I'm lucky the dump contains everything starting at the file system.  The directories, and the files within.

From what I understand sectors are sequential, regardless of Cylinders, and heads.

- So I can bring back the sectors dump, into the IDE Seagate drive, even though MBR is blank. (I don't want to play with the fixed RLL drive. YET)
- Then (bit tricky), I guess the starting point of the Partition, and copy in a MBR from new (working RLL drive) (modify it if needed).

I'm not expecting perfection (a full working bootable partition), but enough to see what that original C: Drive (RLL) had on it.  DOS 3.1?  DOS 5.x? etc.  
Was there a config.sys, autoexect.bat [was it designed to be bootable?].  What there a ((( jdisk.com entry in config.sys)))?

It will give me some clues as to if the original RLL drive was originally bootable C: drive?  Or was it a D: drive with an HARD FILE as C:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 27, 2017, 07:42:08 AM
In my opinion you have to start again from the fundamentals...


1) Put out ALL cards out A2000 and clean connectors and cards with electric cleaning spray...

Use a lens glass and check if ALL pins of Bridgeboard are safe and no missing and do not present scratches that could interrupt connection from card side, and check also there is no sign of rust in the Amiga connector slots or on the circuits nearby...

Then re-seat all cards gently, but firmly.

(If you have a tester/meter maybe it could be interesting to check if capacitors of A2000 and Bridgeboard are still all functioning... A better test will be using oscilloscope and check them with it)

2) Download DMS files of Bridgeboard Installation floppy disks from amigaresource site and using winuae on a PC machine (or using Amiga itself) install them, extracting all Amiga and PC commands and Let's start make a control if versions you are using on your Amiga floppies do present same version, size and checksum...

Maybe you are using corrupted commands...


3)  IDE controllers are very picky on devices that are connected to it. You must set right jumpers on the hard disk to make it visible as primary master to boot. Sometimes ATA/IDE HardDisks wont boot if device has been seeting with jumpers "SLAVE" and then connected to IDE 0 that pretends finding a "Master" somewhere...

Do the CF card reader connected to IDE Adapter presents jumper settings and has been set as "slave"?

Maybe this makes it visible on 486 as if just PC considers CF a slave device.


4) In the end... Do CF card you used presents HUGE partitions that result being NOT visible by XT 8088?

I suppose you have to format CF card with all partition of maximum size consented by XT electronics and with sectors, cylinders, blocks of a size visible by MS-DOS 6.22.

BTW what is maximum size for a partition being visible with XT Computers? 128 Megabytes? 256? 512? 1024? 2046?
On the other side how big is your CF Drive? 4 GIGA? 8 GIGA? 16? That's a big difference of disk-space availability.

You must reformat your CF Drive stricly according parameters visible by XT CPU and MS-DOS limits.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822777
In my opinion you have to start again from the fundamentals...
.....
I agree with you. (This is a good approach for overall AMIGA/PC ->bridgeboard  <- JANUS -> )
Maybe I have a bad connection on Amiga Motherboard, or bridge board in Slot.
Yes, I could have bad AMIGA bridgeboard files.
Lot's of work, and YES I will do (very soon).

But I just finished joining together the images.
Norton Diskedit (Is amazing.).  I can see my whole OLD C: drive file system (From the IMAGE copy).
 All files intact (I can even see the DOS OS boot file)

I will explain soon. (I am tying PLAN B, just to understand the past setup better.)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 27, 2017, 10:46:45 AM
I still believe Amiga Bridgeboard performs hokydoky mumbo-jumbo dirty tricks to made visible ISA slots by Amiga and by PC-XT at the same time.

You said your XT-IDE card presents same Interrupts on Bridgeboard and on 486, but 486 interrupt I suspect it is free, while on the Bridgeboard may create conflicts.

Here is a discussion on Vintage Site where they talk right how change interrupts on XT-IDE card by changing jumpers setting.


http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-19591.html


For a matter of good chance, in the same discussion they talk about Mater/Slave/Cables configuration, and again they talk also about configuring multiple 2GB partitions (on old IDE 8,4GB Drive) to make it all visible to DOS without the need of enhancing bios with external drivers or reflashing its chip.
In the end again by chance, discussion deals also with not booting CF cards.
Most versatile and usable seems to be Hitachi 6GB Microdrive capable to be set as Master or Slave.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 02:31:11 PM
Raffaele (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=3991),

You have my full attention now!!!!

Maybe the card does need cleaning.  Maybe ALL needs cleaning!!
I first thought cleaning cables fixed my problem.
Then I thought it was cabling (Flip) that fixed my C: drive.
But afterwards, I found out ribbon cabling needed FLIP BACK.
So RIBBON cable to RLL drive is like always but now working.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Plus I like the X-IDE link you found above.

Everything they talk about makes sense to me.

I also played with Jumpers (IO addresss and Base Addresss)
** Both work proper on 486, and on 8086, except 8086 won't initialize **

(I haven't played with x-ide config things.  That is only after you have a C: drive, to speed up I/O)

(Interesting they mention no Support for IRQ (yet), and my WD controller picked up on IRQ3 on 8086, Will check on 486 when I test)

I really like the Explanation of various versions of DOS and limitations.

The problems they had.  But that was at the beginning of X-IDE.
I think many problems were overcome.
But if my Bridgeboard connector is dirty, that could explain why ISA/IDE adapter not doing INIT.

------------------------------------------------------------------
I still want to test why WD controller/RLL does not boot in 486.
Maybe WD Controller card IS THE REAL ONE NEEDING CLEANING!!

****************************************
**
I got a view on the orignial C: RLL Image.
** IT was 100% a bootable drive.
** It has C:\autoexec.bat and C:\config.sys
** I still have to work to see contents of both******.
****************************************

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOU made a point earlier about corrupt Amiga (eg Janus Files, Jdisk, Awrite.)
I am not using old disks.
Everything is brand new downloads (New made bridgeboard Workbench)
My worry was compatibility and library versions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 05:50:20 PM
Raffaele,

I looked over the BB and Amiga Motherboard slot connectors.
VERY CLOSELY with HIGH Powered LIGHT.

Everything is perfect.
All contacts are gold plated (Shiny) on BB and slots.
All connectors are fully spring extended.

I don't want to mess up things with Contact cleaner.
Not yet.

Must look at my other test plans first. (like get RLL drive working in 486.  BOOTABLE and see what Interrupts show up, with ISA/IDE adapter)

I just cloned the IMAGE of old RLL drive (with missing MBR) onto Seagate IDE Drive (which works also with ISA/IDE X-IDE adapter in 486).
Will examine and without risk can try to restore MBR.

The maybe put Adapter with Seagate into 8086.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 08:30:39 PM
[End of PLAN B - RLL drive Image Restore] Got enough evidence

So I tried many things to bring back the RLL Drive Image (without MBR), onto the SPARE Maxtor IDE Drive.

I tried Disk Edit, Ghost Editor, Recovery tools.  Really close in many ways, but assembling bit-and-pieces to work impossible.

Just too complicated for my limited knowledge.

But I did get enough evidence to know how that RLL C: drive used to work.

FROM BELOW: (Diskedit of Image) you can see the following:

- C drive was bootable (Since it contains DOS, autoexec.bat, and config.sys)
- From size of command.com (it just a little over DOS 3.3, but way under 6.2)
- There was no "jdisk.com or jlink.com" that I could easily see. Which is what I expected.

** I COULD NOT OPEN ANY FILES for viewing, since the POINTERS were off, how I loaded the image
** Best I could get is moving thru directories and see what files were around

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3907/33113771686_e2b331e46b_z.jpg)

So next, I will take out WD-COntroller and RLL drive (move into 486).  

- IT MUST BOOT in 486, to boot in 8086. (maybe jumper, or DOS, or Format, etc)


- TIME to Try Ranish (boot image) (on Seagate MAXTOR IDE drive, then on RLL Drive)

Yes, I will clean contacts, since taking things apart.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 27, 2017, 10:05:27 PM
486 [RANISH Boot Manager] With MAXTOR IDE Drive (DOS 3.3)

This is was EASY AS PIE!!
BUT it probably won't work on RLL drive, or in Amiga.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2871/33029463501_62650ea6fc_c.jpg)

1) PARTITION  [1] C: [ 40 Mb] (Created FRESH by FDISK, (DOS 3.3), ACTIVE, Formatted with DOS 3.3, System installed)
2) PARTITION [2] D:  [40 Mb]  (Created by ADISK)
3) Tested to be working (without RANISH Boot manager)
4) RANISH BOOT MANAGER INSTALL (Tested, working)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 28, 2017, 12:07:37 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822798
BUT it probably won't work on RLL drive, or in Amiga.



If I intended well your situation at this point nou have virtual C: PC drive on Amiga side, resident into Amiga Floppy that boots, and your RLL Drive with no live partitions. Am I right?.

What does it happen if:

1) You re-create MBR of RLL Drive with command Format /MBR... Does it work?


Quote

So I tried many things to bring back the RLL Drive Image (without MBR), onto the SPARE Maxtor IDE Drive.

I tried Disk Edit, Ghost Editor, Recovery tools. Really close in many ways, but assembling bit-and-pieces to work impossible.

Just too complicated for my limited knowledge.

But I did get enough evidence to know how that RLL C: drive used to work.

FROM BELOW: (Diskedit of Image) you can see the following:

- C drive was bootable (Since it contains DOS, autoexec.bat, and config.sys)
- From size of command.com (it just a little over DOS 3.3, but way under 6.2)
- There was no "jdisk.com or jlink.com" that I could easily see. Which is what I expected.

** I COULD NOT OPEN ANY FILES for viewing, since the POINTERS were off, how I loaded the image
** Best I could get is moving thru directories and see what files were around

****************************************
** I got a view on the orignial C: RLL Image.
** IT was 100% a bootable drive.
** It has C:\autoexec.bat and C:\config.sys
** I still have to work to see contents of both******.
****************************************


2) What happens if you create again a new MBR on your RLL drive and then ...


2A) you copy the first two sectors of this brand new MBR into a file, on a Floppy, and then pasting its contents back on its 2 starting sectors on your Disk image?

Once you made this trick, you have a live Disk image functiong and ready to be put again on RLL Drive?


2B) What about you build again first missing 2 sectors editing it by hand?

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/boot_sector.htm

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/DOS50FDB.htm

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html


Standard MBR Structure from MS-DOS 3.3 to Win95

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/STDMBR.htm


Some Useful Tools:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/tool/FreeTools.html

Read here:

Quote
    For TECHs, programmers and Advanced Hackers:

    PhysTechSoft Disk Editor This is a true Physical or Logical hard drive Editor. (Similar to Symantec's NORTON Disk Editor; except it won't display/guide you through Directory info. But it is designed for ANY x86 Operating System! Use it to examine NTFS, OS/2, even UNIX, etc. partitions; very small, run it from a floppy: comes with its own loader so it can boot itself without any OS on the floppy. It will run under DOS/Win95/98/maybe NT, but not under Windows 2000/XP, because they don't allow direct disk access. You can still use it to make changes to a drive that has those OSs on it though.)

    PowerQuest's Partition (and Boot Record) Info Now runs under any Windows OS !!!
    If you're a tech at heart or an Assembly programmer, then read my page on The MBR in Detail here.

A Sourceforge program that writes various kinds of MBRs:

http://ms-sys.sourceforge.net/

Undocumented MS-DOS features, Secrets and Hidden Commands

http://www.mdgx.com/secrets.htm

(This site has extensive list of Partition, Recovery, Format and Rescue Tools available for any Wintel/Linux System)

Most interesting tools that caught my attention is MBRWizard.

You can find infos about it here:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/BootToolsRefs.htm#MBRWiz

And here:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html

And on its main site:

http://www.mbrwizard.com/fixmbr.php


BIOS SPECIAL

How to dump BIOS from memory (when you find that Bridgeboard loaded it correctly)

And then save it to a binary file that could be read by an hexadecimal editor!

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/bios/index.html



And in the end, regarding what we said about Xt-IDE CF cards:

Quote
Plus I like the X-IDE link you found above.

Everything they talk about makes sense to me.


I also played with Jumpers (IO addresss and Base Addresss)
** Both work proper on 486, and on 8086, except 8086 won't initialize **

But does CF card works now? Is it being seen by 486 just as like 8088?

Do you formatted CF Card with correct 2GB partition parameters before putting it into 8088 and trying booting from it?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 02:57:18 AM
Raffaelle, (Thank you)

Wow!!  So much information.
I feel like I'm drinking from FIRE HOSE and :juggler:

- I don't care about rebuilding old DOS RLL drive image.  I have enough information, and new Build on REAL IDE Drive should work.
-----> I will later maybe try to fix image with MBR
-----> I was hoping to find simple (Undelete, file extractor), like I have for getting files from SD card. (I use RECUVA).  But it want IMAGE on Physical media, not FILE.  So I would have to copy into Physical media (like Drive, or SD card), but my DRIVE is IDE and Windows machine has no IDE.  Maybe RECUVA will work on my Windows XP machine. (lot of work to move around)

-> I am testing now many configs (486 vs 80860
-> Geting Ranish IRQ from all setups to compare.

-> I am going to build NEW WB, new BB installall (WB 1.2)

THen go back to Kickstart 3.1 and try BB install on WB 1.3, OS3.1, Cross DOS.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 02:59:17 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822800
But does CF card works now? Is it being seen by 486 just as like 8088?

Do you formatted CF Card with correct 2GB partition parameters before putting it into 8088 and trying booting from it?

LAST TIME (DOS 6.2, messy Parititions)
Compact Flash only works on 486. and
SD Card only works on 486. and
IDE HD only works on 486 and  ** THIS SHOULD WORK ((in Amiga)) with 25 Mb Partition, same as RLL **

NOTHING works on 8086 except WD+RLL.  NOTHING else in AMiga PC !!  (NO C: ) (  no D: ) (no C:-rll + D: )

Trying all above AGAIN (Clean Partition and RANISH booter)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 03:05:18 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822800

2A) you copy the first two sectors of this brand new MBR into a file, on a Floppy, and then pasting its contents back on its 2 starting sectors on your Disk image?

Once you made this trick, you have a live Disk image functiong and ready to be put again on RLL Drive?

NOT EASY.  I am not expert.  Confusing with DiskEDIT.
Tricky with Diferrent DOS, DIfferent FAT,  Offset to Root Directory, to Data, to File Clusters.  (DISK edit take me to wrong places for files)
I am not sure if my DUMP is correct.  Looks good.  Sequential, but first few sectors confusing since missing.
Maybe other tools you provided will help.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 04:26:16 AM
** BEST CRASH EVER *** THINGS ARE WORKING (Not sure what/how)

This is very interesting.  I am VERY EXCITED!!!!  (I didn't expect this, when I double check on PC ICON.  I expected boot from A: floppy)

-->>(PC crashed , or is HUNG)
-->>(AMIGA side is Operational)


I put the newly prepare Seagate Maxtor Drive into the Lo-Tech-ISA/IDE adapter, into the Amiga.

** YES I CLEAN THE Bridgeboard Contact with Conductor Cleaner **

THIS IS VERY PROMISING!!

-
It shows INITIALIZATION of Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter (NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE)
-
It shows a BOOT Attempt off C: Drive (Ranish)

- **** LOOK!!! Janus HANDLER showed up !!!!!!
- NEVER happened before
- Needed for everything (Format across to Amiga Partition)
- I thinks ERROR reading boot sector is I didn't format AMIGA Paritition yet.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2815/33161640285_754c37f1c0_z.jpg)

- Since handler showed up.  I am going to try FORMAT on Amiga Side to JH0:
- Going to run SYSINFO (before I power off)

- Now I will take out (JUST drive) (move to 486) and remove RANISH
- Not touching HW (Lo-Tech)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 04:39:35 AM
- AMiga Boot was Vanilla (only JANUS.library, in Expansion Folder), NO [DJmount, no PC DISK, no Fdisk on PC side)

I just ran DJMOUNT (new Message), never seen before.


(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/701/32346699983_7a761bf665_o.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 04:49:53 AM
I HAVE NOT POWERED OFF YET. (Try to gather information on this setup)

--> I RAN PC-DISK (Amiga Side)
------> Then CTRL-ALT-DEL to reboot PC.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2834/32779230460_e55ca6cd6c.jpg)

This time it does not boot from HARD DISK-ISA/IDE-Adapter, and it trying to boot from HARD FILE. (I just picked any Workbench, this was old tester for Hard file)

** MAYBE becuase I left Floppy inside DRIVE **  Trying PC-CTRL-ALT-DEL  reboot, without Floppy  (NO AMIGA REBOOT YET)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 04:57:31 AM
I Took FLOPPY OUT.  Want's AUTOBOOT MORE.  
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3947/33120659186_dbd97f77b5_o.jpg)
It might have been PC-disk Execution.

** I HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE  **

*** MARKING THIS WORKBENCH and FLOPPY combination (Safekeeping [[No Touch)]  ) ***

Rebooting AMIGA to see if this happens again (LO-Tech/Ranish BOoot from Seagate).  ** I HOPE SO***
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 05:08:52 AM
OH!! OH!!

Clicking on PC window to find out was longest wait ever.

CTRL-AMIGA-AMIGA (reboot)  DID NOT ACTIVATE Lo-tech-ISA-IDE reboot

Trying, Power OFF REBOOT!! (keeping fingers crosssed).

 I did not change anything.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 05:17:01 AM
NO.  POWER OFF, POWER ON, did not do the job to Boot from C: drive.

I KNOW SOMETHING I DID (just before the IDE BOOT worked)

There was a Aboot.ctrl file when I first powered on. (after installing Lo-tech and IDE drive)

I removed it, then I did a (reboot), not sure if (CTRL-ALT-DEL) or (CRTRL-AMIGA-AMIGA)

I think CONTROl-ALT-DEL

Maybe the Aboot.ctrl File somehow enabled AutoBooting on AMIGA (then removing it, forced reboot to PC IDE since no HARD FILE POINTER)

I am going to try an replicate.



Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 07:30:53 AM
Here you go.

:banana: Working!!   :banana:

-> C: Drive (32 Mb Partition) Auto boot on Amiga 8086 Bridgeboard
-> MS Dos 6.2 (fdisk/adisk created)
-> Lo-Tech-ISA-IDE-CF Adapter
-> Secure Digital IDE-SDcard Adapter

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2811/33163588175_9d403b8209_c.jpg)

I actually can't say exactly what is making this work.

I think it's a double trick technique.

1a) I leave the Aboot.CTRL file in SYS:PC/System  (EMPTY File, or 1 space)
1b) It has to be there, or else problems

2a)  For Lo-Tech and SD Adapter, it appears let PC boot once (it doesn't pick up Lo-Tech Adapter)
2b) CTRL-ALT-DEL PC and 2nd time it does. (not 100% but appears that way)

More testing to do....To Confirm things.

Once I have stable replication, I'll try a new WorkBench Build.
Also need to try DJmount and Format,  (I already disk FDISK Partition #2)

:cool:  :cool: Cool Eh!!   :cool:  :cool:

So much work/persistence, and everyone's help has paid off.

Time for a Dummy Chapter soon.....:) :) :) !!
Few more chapters to go.  Dummy Book not quite yet Finished.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on February 28, 2017, 10:21:54 AM
Holly Cow!!  Our new resident Bridgeboard / Lo-Tech-ISA-IDE-CF expert!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on February 28, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: darkage;822820
Holly Cow!!  Our new resident Bridgeboard / Lo-Tech-ISA-IDE-CF expert!


That's the moment for a toast then! ^_^ :D

Cheers! :cheers:
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
Thanks Everyone.

I couldn't have done it without you all.   Seriously!

I've been using Liquid Chalk Marker on all my test disks.
This is the one that worked last night.  It the same one that worked when RLL Drive woke up.
LUCKY DISK!!

The Bridgeboard disk is my original.  Not readable at all.

I put together this Frame for my office that will proudly hang on my wall and a memory of this Challenge, overcome.

A memory of last few weeks of endurance, persistence and meeting some nice Helpful Folks on the Forum.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2809/33013462652_d49c558c36.jpg)

Journey is not quite over, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Onward...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on February 28, 2017, 06:57:00 PM
NEXT STEPS

I can now relax a bit and take things slower.
I made 3 copies of working Workbench disk and stored one safely.

Good that I posted some photo's on Flicker, since my SD card from Camera just died from over use (taking in and out of camera/computer) 20 times a day for weeks.

I do have some good evidence.  I know how things work.

I posted the success with Lotech on Vintage computer Forum
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?17986-XTIDE-Universal-BIOS/page35

I am still not 100% sure if my theories are correct, but I think they are.

I actually know how I stumbled on this fix (last night).
My workbench PC folder is a mess.  The icons are on top of each other.
When I wanted to click on PC window, I click on PC-RESET icon instead.(I remember clearly doing that).  
So when I opened PC window, the XT booted twice before I opened it.
(IF I didn't do that I would never know it could work.  SUPER LUCKY)
That PC-Reset is like CTRL-ALT-DEL, but works better.

Now if I do PC-RESET after first opening PC-Window.
 ISA/IDE adapter works EVERY TIME.
 It appears to work like this:
---> Aboot.CTRL enabled autobooting
--->  and PC-RESET (initialized Adapter, since first boot doesn't).  
--------- > MAGIC Solution!!!  <---------------

Plan for next steps is:


- Rebuild a new Workbench from Scratch and make it work like I think it will work (Aboot.CTRL, PC-Reset)
- During testing last night, Janus woke up.  I think it was part of Aboot, or RESET. Not sure (will test to see if Adisk,Aread,Awrite works)
- Will test DJMOUNT and FORMAT of JH0:

- WHen I have a few working solutions, I will test with kickstart 3.1
- Depending if Bootable Amiga Drive (Janus works) build a AMIGA OS on hard drive (SD card)

- I may try to rebuild RLL Drive in 486, make it bootable, with the Tools Raffelle provided (by Firehose :) )
- Whatever the result, I'll probably sell the WD/RLL combo with proof 100% working SPINRITE, Norton tested.

Then on move to final assembly of Amiga 2000


- GOTEK (Retro Multi-Pack) will have multiple Floppies Nicely organized

-----------> NORMAL WORKBENCHES
--->  Workbench 1.2
--->  Workbench 1.3
--->  Possibly Workbench 3.1
---> etc... (open to suggestions)

--------->  Special Workbenches
----> Workbench with Working (HARD FILE BOOT, off DF0: [stripped workbench] )
----> Will try Classic Workbench  for fun http://classicwb.abime.net/
---> etc... (open to suggestions)

---------> Workbench with Bridgeboard PC AutoBoot
-------> Lotech ISA/IDE -->SD Adapter (C: D: Drive), Maybe Ranish booter
---> DOS 3.1 Vanilla
---> DOS 6.2 Vanilla
---> DOS Tools (Norton DD, Spinrite, RANISH!!! etc,etc)
---> DOS / Windows 1.0/2.0
---> etc... (open to suggestions)

-------->
 AMIGA Tools Disks
---> Copy ADF (Xcopy, etc)
---> SysInfo
---> Amiga Explorer
Client
---> etc... (open to suggestions)

-------->  AMIGA GAME Floppies
---> Copy all my 3.5" floppy games (about 50).  Maybe multiple USB sticks.


Plenty of work to do.  This will take weeks, since I need to get back to my fish tanks.

Will I sell this Amiga after all this work and journey.  Not sure.
But if I do, it will be a very nice package.    Fully documented and tested.
Won't be cheap sale with everything included.  
(Sale will be to buy that nice Fish Tank light I've always wanted)
 
At the end, I have a special POST that I will end this thread with.
YOUTUBE video of something really REALLY cool (that I did during testing).  SECRET Surprise.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 01, 2017, 04:55:58 AM
Even though I have a nice to do list above, I feel too worn down to tackle much more.  

I need to step away for a while, and enjoy the progress.  I know things can work (my HW/SW is fine)
 
I am worried I might find new problems and have to spend too much time figuring things out.

I will only do TWO more things before I tidy up the disaster I created in my office,
and take care of my fish tank, which are a mess/unstable. (after weeks of neglect)

With New Workbench disk - Clean Bridgeboard Install (WB1.2)

- Prove "if AutoBoot is needed" to start LoTech, or just PC restart
- Test if Bridgeboard / LoTech / AutoBoot works with Kickstart 3.1

When I started this Amiga rebuild, it was a 1-2 weekend plan, not 6 weeks.

The AMIGA/bridgeboard thing just grew and grew and took over my life.

I call it the AMIGA INVASION.

You can see my office Before(top) and Now (below).

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/677/32799298900_1b91807cc3_z.jpg)

I'll be back .. ... ...

Wally
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 01, 2017, 07:07:34 AM
UPDATE on Follow-up Testing

- I put in Kickstart 3.1 ROM and my Last-Working WB1.2 disk with Lo-Tech ISA/IDE -> IDE/SD-Card Boot for Bridgeboard PC.  (WORKS Just the same)

- But when I tried a previous Workbench 1.3 without ABoot.init file (doesn't work, works only with B: Floppy)
- I quickly just created the ABoot.init file (manually)
(doesn't work)

Summary:

There is something special about that WB disk I created to make the Lo-Tech Adapter to work (Init) and for BB PC to boot (C: Drive).

I'll find out what.

Stay tuned.... More to come....

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 01, 2017, 06:47:01 PM
Useful Hints:


Trick to boot with MakeAB with files upto 250MB (MakeAB limit is 32MB)... Just use CrossDOS to create them.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-60625.html


Info about the only ROM Replacement made available by Commodore to Bridgeboard 2088 (and code of the kind of of ROM Chip that must be used into EEPROMS)

http://www.amiga-stuff.com/hardware/a2088.html


I found a document where I read 2.40 (or 3.40?) Bios version Bridgeboard A2088 had some issues in initializing  cards so Commodore released new Bios version 3.66.1 that corrected these bugs.

And here there is an interesting link:

http://www.cbmfreaks.com/?p=63



EAB-ABIME thread at page 31 where they talk about Bridgeboard emulated on WinUAE. They also discussed of various issues of DJMount on a real Bridgeboard 2088 XT.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=31


I read also of a "notorious file" which contains all versions of ROMS of expansion cards of Amiga, including Bridgeboards:

File is called: expansion_boot_roms.zip



A word to other readers


Problems people on Amiga.org encountered with their XTIDE Board first versions 2 years ago. I wonder if they are still hanging around Amiga.org so they can read about your progress:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-69387.html


How to Hack A2386 Boards to 486, and use SIMMS upto 16 MB of RAM.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-34421.html


Using PC Ethernet card on Bridgeboard from Amiga side:

http://www.cbmfreaks.com/?p=63
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 02, 2017, 01:56:24 AM
Raffaelle,

You are a regular SUPER GOOGLE engine MASTERMIND!!

Thanks.  This thread is becoming an Encyclopedia of knowlege.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 02, 2017, 02:00:41 AM
I was thinking of Selling this Amiga.

I am getting Emotionally Attached (after all this discovery and hard work), and can't imagine doing that.

I don't even think I will sell the RLL drive/WD controller, it's special.

Still thinking of doing the Donation to High School (if they want it).  
At least I can visit, and load up more Raffaelle information on the SD card LIBRARY BANK.

I can find another way of making money for my Fish Tank dreams.

After I copy all the floppies onto GOTEK, and some USB drives.

I can sell the floppies like this. (To make $$) :) :) :) :): )
https://www.amazon.ca/PHT-Silicone-Blanked-Inches-coasters/dp/B00R87RPX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488419604&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5%22+floppy+disk+labels (https://www.amazon.ca/PHT-Silicone-Blanked-Inches-coasters/dp/B00R87RPX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488419604&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5%22+floppy+disk+labels)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 02, 2017, 07:30:36 AM
Wondering what the Computer Box thing is that I found in my Dad's Garage.

I posted a picture on the Vintage Computer forum and someone replied.

Appears I have the NGEN computer  Graphics Modules, Hard Drive Modules, and Floppy module

(not quite the same, but very similar as shown in Link Below)
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/2964/Convergent-Technologies-AWS-NGEN-Workstation/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 02, 2017, 08:28:22 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822901
Wondering what the Computer Box thing is that I found in my Dad's Garage.

I posted a picture on the Vintage Computer forum and someone replied.

Appears I have the NGEN computer  Graphics Modules, Hard Drive Modules, and Floppy module

(not quite the same, but very similar as shown in Link Below)
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/2964/Convergent-Technologies-AWS-NGEN-Workstation/


How bad it is consumed by rust.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 02, 2017, 10:53:38 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822890
I was thinking of Selling this Amiga.

I am getting Emotionally Attached (after all this discovery and hard work), and can't imagine doing that.

I don't even think I will sell the RLL drive/WD controller, it's special.

Still thinking of doing the Donation to High School (if they want it).  
At least I can visit, and load up more Raffaelle information on the SD card LIBRARY BANK.

I can find another way of making money for my Fish Tank dreams.

After I copy all the floppies onto GOTEK, and some USB drives.

I can sell the floppies like this. (To make $$) :) :) :) :): )
https://www.amazon.ca/PHT-Silicone-Blanked-Inches-coasters/dp/B00R87RPX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488419604&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5%22+floppy+disk+labels (https://www.amazon.ca/PHT-Silicone-Blanked-Inches-coasters/dp/B00R87RPX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488419604&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5%22+floppy+disk+labels)

There is also the formula not donating the Computer but leave it in concession for free use...

(When you want it for yourself, you can get it back)

But if someone want donating or concessing something interesting nowadays, I will leave in concession to the School an A4000 a least with 68060 Expansion, VGA Card, 32 MB of memory and a Ethernet card, else they could not going to internet.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 02:56:09 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822902
How bad it is consumed by rust.

Pretty bad rust on back and bottom, but plastic parts are ok.

100% is it broken, but as artifact is it ok.

It will be fun to look inside, but it may fall apart.
Funny, the table I put it on had spider web built around it after a few days, so there was a spider inside.
I put in garage for now.

This museum take old computer donations. http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
I can email them to see if they want it, before I break apart.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 02:57:38 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822906
There is also the formula not donating the Computer but leave it in concession for free use...

(When you want it for yourself, you can get it back)

But if someone want donating or concessing something interesting nowadays, I will leave in concession to the School an A4000 a least with 68060 Expansion, VGA Card, 32 MB of memory and a Ethernet card, else they could not going to internet.
Good idea. I will talk to teacher at next parent teacher interview.
Maybe I can be a guest speaker and show old DOS, WIndows, and how slow computers used to be.
Lending computer to kids won't be much use to them. They need instruction, or demo.
Bring for a few hours, or few days, and take back home.
I bet teacher would like to see Windows 1.0.  I want to see it running on 8086 myself.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 03:34:38 AM
One more purchase for my A2000.

Local seller 10 minutes drive from my house.
Free pickup.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/272539818475?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/272539818475?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

He is selling all keycaps from a broken A2000 keboard.  Just what I needed.

If you look at the picture of my A2000 at the top of this thread, it has been missing the LEFT-SHIFT-KEY.  

Pain to type on.  Looks bad.
This is small price for big improvement.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 03, 2017, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822929
One more purchase for my A2000.

Local seller 10 minutes drive from my house.
Free pickup.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/272539818475?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/272539818475?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

He is selling all keycaps from a broken A2000 keboard.  Just what I needed.

If you look at the picture of my A2000 at the top of this thread, it has been missing the LEFT-SHIFT-KEY.  

Pain to type on.  Looks bad.
This is small price for big improvement.


Discontinued Wireless Keyboard + Wireless Mouse PS+2USB Logitech Desktop Navigator were perfect for Amiga as it sports PS2 connectors too and double WINDOWS keys (Not just one on the left as modern keyboards ones) that could be used as RightAmiga LeftAmiga.

In the years I bought 3 sets of them (last is used from Ebay) for using it on my Amigas and have some replaces.

If you find some good offers on Ebay, purchase it! It worths its price.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 02:33:23 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;822943
Discontinued Wireless Keyboard + Wireless Mouse PS+2USB Logitech Desktop Navigator were perfect for Amiga as it sports PS2 connectors too and double WINDOWS keys (Not just one on the left as modern keyboards ones) that could be used as RightAmiga LeftAmiga.

In the years I bought 3 sets of them (last is used from Ebay) for using it on my Amigas and have some replaces.

If you find some good offers on Ebay, purchase it! It worths its price.
Do you mean something like this?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EXTERNAL-KEYBOARD-INTERFACE-for-AMIGA-2000-3000-/172166297482?hash=item2815e9378a:g:lsoAAOSw7KJXDhmx
Bit pricey.  (I already have a keyboard, just need to make it work properly)

Plus I still haven't figured out my Keyboard mapping on the PC side (I love that ALT+ASCI-Code trick.  I played with some settings KEYB, USA etc. That made things worse.

I am going to look for a DOS keyboard code DUMP program something like this
http://delphiforfun.org/programs/utilities/KeyCodes.htm

If I can just click on the keys.  Find keycodes and then customize the keyboard map properly that would be easiest.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: EugeneNine on March 03, 2017, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822890
I was thinking of Selling this Amiga.

I am getting Emotionally Attached (after all this discovery and hard work), and can't imagine doing that.

I don't even think I will sell the RLL drive/WD controller, it's special.

Still thinking of doing the Donation to High School (if they want it).  
At least I can visit, and load up more Raffaelle information on the SD card LIBRARY BANK.

I can find another way of making money for my Fish Tank dreams.

After I copy all the floppies onto GOTEK, and some USB drives.

I can sell the floppies like this. (To make $$) :) :) :) :): )
https://www.amazon.ca/PHT-Silicone-Blanked-Inches-coasters/dp/B00R87RPX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488419604&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5%22+floppy+disk+labels


I'd be surprised if a school would take it in a donation.  I noticed a while back they are getting picky, they don't want anything old that their it staff won't be able to support.

Around here its pretty much just chromebooks.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
NEXT PROJECT [ GOTEK SETUP ]

I am going to tackle the GOTEK setup next.

I need to get back to my fish tank project.... (Some of my Corals are dying since I have done zero chemistry maintenance over last month)
....... so reverse engineering the working Workbench/Bridgboard/ISA-IDE-Adapter is a big undertaking (and could be complex)

I want to tackle something a bit easier, which will get me organized.

** IF I LEND this computer to Son's High School, or do demo.....it needs to be simple to run **


1) I wish to understand the GOTEK and how it works (is managed)
---> It works just out of the box with the Unit I purchased
----> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/182422877030?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/182422877030?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
------> I have it setup as DF1 (I change the jumped on the A2000 Motherboard) and used the twist ribbon cable
-----------> It works really good:
------------->> (I can boot from DF0: floppy)
------------->> (I can boot from DF1: Gotek), if I don't put a 3.5" Floppy in DF0:
------------->> (I can hook up external A1010 Floppy Drive as DF2: for reading and writing, and great for copying)

------------->> I am using the USB stick with a single Amiga ADF loader
---------------------> Loader boots Amiga with WB and a menu system (MENU DISPLAY ON AMIGA)
---------------------> I can copy in ADF file IMAGES onto USB stick
---------------------> Loaded allows me to put/assign the file Images into 0-100 Slots
-------------------------------> Then I can either switch to the slot during WB running. (And new Floppy shows up on Workbench Screen in DF1: )
-------------------------------> Or I can boot directly from the Slot (ie A workbench in that Slot)

So What I'm trying to figure out is a few things.

----> Amiga Loader is nice:
---------> But is there a way to load ADF files into SLOT via my Windows PC? (I think so, with the Windows Image manager)
---------> All the software is on HXC Website
-------------->> http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/
---------> This is the Image Loader Manual
--------------> http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/HxC_Floppy_Emulator_Software_User_Manual_ENG.pdf
--------------> Going to play with it to figure it out.

So I think I'll be able to set things up using both the Amiga ADF loaded and this HxC image Manager.

The images then go into GOTEK into Slots 01-100

Selectable by Amiga Loader or the (Simple 3 digit LCD display) on GOTEK, and you can use up/down buttons on Gotek.
----> To Manage content, you have to have a paper-list with what is in each slot
----> Or you name the files and use the AMIGA loader.
---------> That be difficult when Amiga WB is running to move to proper disk (so paper list is needed)

I am thinking of doing something like this (An IC2 LCD Module DISPLAY for Gotek)
----------> It will allow me to view the SLOTs (on LCD display) to pick the right image without looking at paper list.
http://www.retrovia.ie/showthread.php/15916-Amiga-600-Floppy-Emulator-Mod-(with-LCD)-*Updated
----> I have a few of these modules for my Audino/Raspberry PI
----------> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00SMM6C64/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
----> What I have to figure out is wiring via IC2, and if the Gotek HxC image support LCD display

SMALL project. :)  (I think this needs to go into Separate Thread, or Find a Thread with step by step setup details)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 04:48:58 PM
Quote from: EugeneNine;822945
I'd be surprised if a school would take it in a donation.  I noticed a while back they are getting picky, they don't want anything old that their it staff won't be able to support.

Around here its pretty much just chromebooks.
I know what you mean.
My wife thinks the Amiga is a Fire Hazzard (I do power it off, and have a fire extinguisher near by).  She also thinks the Amiga Monitor is a Radiation hazzard (She could be correct) :(

But the school has a photography course, and they do real old Film and paper development.  I had a darkroom setup, and donated it, since they only had one, and now they have two.

But Darkroom enlargers are simple and don't catch on fire and easy to support.

** SO MAYBE just a demo for my Son's friends in our house basement is about as good as I get **
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: EugeneNine on March 03, 2017, 09:28:34 PM
Just because the Amiga is old doesn't make it a fire hazard.  Samsung an Apple phones are more of a fire hazard :P
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 03, 2017, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: EugeneNine;822956
Just because the Amiga is old doesn't make it a fire hazard.  Samsung an Apple phones are more of a fire hazard :P

Hah :)

Now I know what this Smiley really is    :flame:

It's a Guy Texting on his Not-So-Old Samsung Phone :laugh1:

BTW...

I found the the wiring for the Gotek LCD Display (really simple)
http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1782&p=15294#p15294

ALL HOOKED UP....
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/767/32388798524_a1cb2ff4eb_z.jpg)

I just need to figure out the right HxC Firmware/SW Image to install on the Gotek.
The Gotek already came with the HxC base firmware, for USB flash updates.  No need for Serial Cable hook up.

Yup, I'm procrastinating from starting my Fish Tank  Ardiuno Doser Project, which will be a lot of careful/painful programming.  No fumbling like re-building the Amiga.

Has to be tested 100% perfect, since too many (ml) of chemicals will kill hundreds of $ of Live Corals.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 02:46:10 AM
PROBLEM with using GOTEK (Cortex VS HxC firmware)

I am having problems using the USB firmware update for the GOTEK.

I think the issue is the fact that the GOTEK that I purchase has the CORTEX firmware flashed on to it.

--> From what I have researched, I think I need to FLASH the GOTEK with HxC firmware first.
--> This means I need to hook up a serial cable to a PC and FLASH it with HxC firmware that I need to purchase for 10Euros from HxC to be properly licensed.

After I FLASH the GOTEK with HxC firmware I then will be able to use the HxC bootloader (FLASHED into GOTEK) for the USB method of doing firmware updates.

However when looking on how CORTEX work vs how HxC works for Floppy images, I'm not sure if I want to go with HxC (quite yet).

The reason for not changing GOTEK firmware to HxC is:

--> CORTEX firmware (reads and writes) *.ADF floppy images files directly from the USB drive.

--> HxC firmware (reads and writes) *.hfe Floppy image files
---------> *.hfe images can be created by converting *.ADF images using a provided (HxCFloppyEmulator windows program) that I THINK coverts ADF files to .hfe files

ADVANTAGE with CORTEX (on GOTEK):
-----> I would rather work with *.ADF files as the Cortex works.
-----> The advantage to using *.ADF files is that is skips the step of having to use AmigaExplorer to convert RAW disk images into *.ADF dos files.
-----> The other advantage is these *.ADF files work nicely in WinUae
-----> I am not sure if there is a method of converting *.hfe file to *.ADF

ADVANTAGE with HxC (on GOTEK):

------> The only drawback I have is the HxC firmware Supports the IC2 LCD display (which I like)

IS MY UNDERSTANDING ABOVE CORRECT?

What confuses me is that this document show that HxC support many images, so maybe my understanding above is Totally incorrect.
http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/

If HxC supports *.ADF file directly off the USB drive, then what is the whole purpose of the *.hfe file format?
I must be missing something.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 04, 2017, 03:21:10 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822944
Do you mean something like this?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EXTERNAL-KEYBOARD-INTERFACE-for-AMIGA-2000-3000-/172166297482?hash=item2815e9378a:g:lsoAAOSw7KJXDhmx
Bit pricey.  (I already have a keyboard, just need to make it work properly)

Plus I still haven't figured out my Keyboard mapping on the PC side (I love that ALT+ASCI-Code trick.  I played with some settings KEYB, USA etc. That made things worse.

I am going to look for a DOS keyboard code DUMP program something like this
http://delphiforfun.org/programs/utilities/KeyCodes.htm

If I can just click on the keys.  Find keycodes and then customize the keyboard map properly that would be easiest.


I mean THIS one...

http://www.5x86.ru/pic/big/1045943.jpg

(System in photo is cyrillic/russian keyboard)

Product info

http://support.logitech.com/en_ch/product/cordless-freedom-navigator

Radio 2.4GHz receiver has both Keyboard + Mouse PS2 connectors (green, violet). If you put the USB dongle (supplied with the system) on keyboard PS2 connector, it transforms itself into USB system.

I paid 17 euro for full functioning used system on Ebay.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 04, 2017, 03:28:07 AM
Quote from: EugeneNine;822956
Just because the Amiga is old doesn't make it a fire hazard.  Samsung an Apple phones are more of a fire hazard :P

Also Amiga have REAL on/off mechanical switch. My MorphOS MacMini is more dangerous as it features only electronic on/off switch.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 03:31:44 AM
Raffaelle,

I like that AMIGA version with the double-AMIGA keys.

I actually have old Wireless version like that (not amiga).
But it is PS2 connector.
I still would need converter to go into (amiga Keyboard port, and Amiga Mouse Port)
Correct?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 03:33:52 AM
ANOTHER CHECK on Hxc and GOTEK.

Maybe I'm wrong on my assumption in POST above.

It say this is HxC web site information.

-------------------
- "Autoboot" mode -
-------------------

In this mode, the AUTOBOOT.HFE software is used to select the images to load
directly on the computer.
This software is actually available on Amiga, Atari ST and CPC computers.

No LCD and/or extra push button is required to use this mode, but the LCD may help you
to see which disk is actually mounted.


The config and the software file to copy to the root of the flash media for this mode :

http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard_HxC_Floppy_Emulator_Manager.zip


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- File images supported                                                   -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Direct support :

- *.ADF (Read / Write)

- *.ST  (Read)
- *.IMG (Read)
- *.HFE (Read / Write)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 04:04:36 AM
Quote from: Raffaele;822964
I mean THIS one...

http://www.5x86.ru/pic/big/1045943.jpg

(System in photo is cyrillic/russian keyboard)

Product info

http://support.logitech.com/en_ch/product/cordless-freedom-navigator

Radio 2.4GHz receiver has both Keyboard + Mouse PS2 connectors (green, violet). If you put the USB dongle (supplied with the system) on keyboard PS2 connector, it transforms itself into USB system.

I paid 17 euro for full functioning used system on Ebay.

Raffaelle, you are HERO again !!!

I went into my Basement Junk Box.


I have this.  (Not sure if still working, and still looking for 2nd Keyboard)

Will this work on Amiga?

How about mouse?  But my mouse is good.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2808/32853830600_6dcf2e72bc_b.jpg)

(see my wife is wrong for asking me to throw old computer stuff out :) )

It always comes in Handy!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 04:11:24 AM
Raffaelle,

NO, it doesn't work.

The CONVERTER goes into Amiga, and Keybaord goes into PS2.

I tried regular wired PS2 Keyboard, and it doesn't work.
Garbage keystrokes.

Is there a trick? Different Converter?
 
 After trying adapter, I did a search and it says you cannot USE PS2 keyboard on Amiga.  You need special converted.
 OOOPS!!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 04:17:26 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822962
PROBLEM with using GOTEK (Cortex VS HxC firmware)

I am having problems using the USB firmware update for the GOTEK.

I think the issue is the fact that the GOTEK that I purchase has the CORTEX firmware flashed on to it.

--> From what I have researched, I think I need to FLASH the GOTEK with HxC firmware first.
--> This means I need to hook up a serial cable to a PC and FLASH it with HxC firmware that I need to purchase for 10Euros from HxC to be properly licensed.

After I FLASH the GOTEK with HxC firmware I then will be able to use the HxC bootloader (FLASHED into GOTEK) for the USB method of doing firmware updates.

However when looking on how CORTEX work vs how HxC works for Floppy images, I'm not sure if I want to go with HxC (quite yet).

The reason for not changing GOTEK firmware to HxC is:

--> CORTEX firmware (reads and writes) *.ADF floppy images files directly from the USB drive.

--> HxC firmware (reads and writes) *.hfe Floppy image files
---------> *.hfe images can be created by converting *.ADF images using a provided (HxCFloppyEmulator windows program) that I THINK coverts ADF files to .hfe files

ADVANTAGE with CORTEX (on GOTEK):
-----> I would rather work with *.ADF files as the Cortex works.
-----> The advantage to using *.ADF files is that is skips the step of having to use AmigaExplorer to convert RAW disk images into *.ADF dos files.
-----> The other advantage is these *.ADF files work nicely in WinUae
-----> I am not sure if there is a method of converting *.hfe file to *.ADF

ADVANTAGE with HxC (on GOTEK):

------> The only drawback I have is the HxC firmware Supports the IC2 LCD display (which I like)

IS MY UNDERSTANDING ABOVE CORRECT?

What confuses me is that this document show that HxC support many images, so maybe my understanding above is Totally incorrect.
http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/

If HxC supports *.ADF file directly off the USB drive, then what is the whole purpose of the *.hfe file format?
I must be missing something.

I am bumping this to bottom, so somebody reads.
 I need confirmation.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 04:59:15 AM
Hmm. Maybe HxC on GOTEK will work.

Appears to support ADF (read/write) directly.
And even more like (.dms, .amiga dos)

So may be worth the $10Euros

http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard_HxC_Floppy_Emulator_Manager.zip

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- File images supported -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Direct support :
- *.ADF (Read / Write)
- *.ST (Read)
- *.IMG (Read)
- *.HFE (Read / Write)
The HFE files can be generated from a large kind of files images with this software :
http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/HxCFloppyEmulator_soft_beta.zip

Indirect image support (With the HFE support) :
KRYOFLUXSTREAM : KryoFlux Stream Loader (*.raw)
AMIGA_DMS : AMIGA DMS Loader (*.dms)
AMIGA_ADZ : AMIGA ADZ Loader (*.adz)
AMIGA_EXTADF : AMIGA EXTENDED ADF Loader (*.adf)
AMIGA_OLDEXTADF : AMIGA OLD EXTENDED ADF Loader (*.adf)
ZXSPECTRUM_FDI : ZX SPECTRUM FDI Loader (*.fdi)
AMIGA_ADF : AMIGA ADF Loader (*.adf)
ACORN_ADF : ACORN ADF Loader (*.adf)
AMSTRADCPC_DSK : Amstrad CPC DSK Loader (*.dsk)
ATARIST_DIM : ATARI ST DIM Loader (*.dim)
ATARIST_STX : Atari ST STX/Pasti Loader (*.stx)
ATARIST_STT : ATARI ST STT Loader (*.stt)
COPYQM : COPYQM IMG Loader (*.dsk)
TELEDISK_TD0 : TELEDISK TD0 Loader (*.td0)
ATARIST_MSA : ATARI ST MSA Loader (*.msa)
ATARIST_STW : STW Loader (*.stw)
RAW_IMZ : IBM PC IMZ Loader (*.imz)
HXCMFM_IMG : HXC MFM IMG Loader (*.mfm)
ORIC_DSK : ORIC DSK Loader (*.dsk)
ATARIST_ST : ATARI ST ST Loader (*.st)
ROLAND_W30 : Roland W30 file Loader (*.w30)
SPS_IPF : SPS IPF Loader (*.ipf)
TI994A_V9T9 : TI99 4A V9T9 Loader (*.v9t9)
AMIGA_FS : AMIGA FS Loader (*.amigados)
PROPHET2000 : PROPHET 2000 Loader (*.img)
RAW_IMG : IBM PC IMG Loader (*.img)
FLP_IMG : FLP PC Magazine image Loader (*.flp)
MSX_DSK : MSX DSK Loader (*.dsk)
FAT12FLOPPY : FAT12/MS DOS Loader (*.fat)
HXC_HFE : SD Card HxCFE HFE file Loader (*.hfe)
VTR_IMG : VTR IMG Loader (*.vtr)
IMD_IMG : ImageDisk IMD file Loader (*.imd)
HXC_AFI : HxC AFI file loader (*.afi)
C64_D81 : C64 D81 Loader (*.d81)
ZXSPECTRUM_TRD : Zx Spectrum TRD Loader (*.trd)
ZXSPECTRUM_SCL : ZX SPECTRUM SCL Loader (*.scl)
THOMSONTO8D_SAP : THOMSON TO8D SAP Loader (*.sap)
TRS80_JV1 : TRS80 JV1 Loader (*.jv1)
TRS80_JV3 : TRS80 JV3 Loader (*.jv3)
TRS80_JVC : TRS80 JVC Loader (*.jvc)
SVD : SVD Loader (*.svd)
NEC_D88 : NEC D88 Loader (*.d88)
X68000_HDM : X68000 HDM file Loader (*.hdm)
RAW_LOADER : RAW Sector loader (*.img)
SNES_SMC : Super famicom SMC Loader (*.smc)
VEGAS6809 : VEGAS6809 image Loader (*.veg)
TRS80_DMK : TRS80 DMK Loader (*.dmk)
TI994A_PC99 : TI99 4A PC99 Loader (*.pc99)
APRIDISK : APRIDISK Loader (*.dsk)
ENSONIQ_EDE : ENSONIQ EDE Loader (*.ede)
FAT12FLOPPY : FAT12/MS DOS Loader (*.fat)
ENSONIQ_GKH : ENSONIQ GKH Loader (*.gkh)
THOMSON_FD : THOMSON FD Loader (*.fd)
CASIO_FZF : Casio FZF file Loader (*.fzf)
DRAGON3264_VDK : DRAGON32 & 64 VDK Loader (*.vdk)
OBERHEIM_DPX : Oberheim DPX Loader (*.dpx)
ENSONIQ_EDM : Ensoniq mirage EDM Loader (*.edm)
EMAX_EM : EMAX EM1 & EM2 Loader (*.em1)
SAMCOUPE_MGT : SAM COUPE MGT Loader (*.mgt)
SAMCOUPE_SAD : SAM COUPE SAD Loader (*.sad)
EMULATORII : E-mu Emulator II / SP1200 dsk Loader (*.emuiifd)
EMULATORII_EMUII : E-mu Emulator II *.eii Loader (*.eii)
EMULATORI : E-mu Emulator I dsk Loader (*.emufd)
CAMPUTERSLYNX : CAMPUTERSLYNX Loader (*.ldf)
BBC_ADL : BBC ADL floppy image loader (*.adl)
BBC_SSD_DSD : BBC SSD & DSD floppy image loader (*.dsd)
FEI : FEI Loader (*.fei)
SYSTEM_24 : System 24 loader (*.s24)
SCP_FLUX_STREAM : SCP Stream Loader (*.scp)
APPLE2_NIB : Apple II NIB Loader (*.nib)
APPLE2_DO : Apple II DO Loader (*.do)
SPECCYDOS_SDD : Speccy DOS SDD File Loader (*.sdd)
ARBURG : ARBURG RAW Loader (*.arburgfd)
GENERIC_XML : Generic XML file Loader (*.xml)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 09:40:46 AM
GOTEK is will be Flashed with HxC Bootloader & HxC image installed (I hope)

So after investigation I decided on going with the HxC image (vs the Cortex) on the Gotek, since it would be worth the small effort & cost.  

Two reasons:  

-> Extensive File support for Amiga ( And also usable for the Bridgeboard PC, 360k, 720K 5.25" floppy emulation)
-> Having that 2 Line IC2 LCD for flipping thru floppies will be nice

It took me a while to figure things out.

-> I downloaded the HxC Serial Bridge Software.
-> Purchased a HxC license [10Euro] (which get's you activation for the Bridge to work, via an Email and a Password for he bridge that links to the image server via Internet)

 ----> I hooked up my Windows XP PC Serial port to the Gotek serial input pin.  
----> Jumpered the Gotek into Burn mode.
----> IPowered up Gotek via Amiga.  

I didn't work at first based on the UART/USB devices that most folks use.
But when I grounded the Gotec to the XP, everything started working.

--> Serial Bridge is downloading the Bootloader, and at 115200 baud transmission the Image is going to take a while.  

I figure there will be a validation at the end as well.  So won't wait anymore.

I hope to see tomorrow if things work.

Here are the details (that I had to piece together to make it work)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3954/32425663133_44a93626a7_c.jpg)

It was a bit painful to learn since the material, YouTube vids, etc were not very clear. (At least the ones I found)/

Hoping this will make it easier for the next person.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 04, 2017, 01:08:16 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;822970
After trying adapter, I did a search and it says you cannot USE PS2 keyboard on Amiga.  You need special converted.
 OOOPS!!

heres the adapter required -

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=228

or you can DIY.  (simple small Atmel Mircocontroller project)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhAM-nbyoLM
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 06:06:08 PM
Quote from: darkage;822978
heres the adapter required -

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=228

or you can DIY.  (simple small Atmel Mircocontroller project)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhAM-nbyoLM


Darkage, you are the best!! :)
My fish hate you. :(
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 06:46:15 PM
Gotek HxC Bootloader is still downloading
BYTECOUNT=490561531

Brings back memories of dialing up the Bulletin boards for game downloads
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 07:06:41 PM
Gotek HxC Disk Toggle Button Idea

I'm thinking if the HxC firmware work and I get that LCD display working.  I need to built the unit into the A2000 Case somehow.

And since the Disk toggle buttons might be hidden, I can wire up some eternal buttons beside the LCD.

I got these a while ago for son's school projects.

They are Classic Arcade Game Style.  Will go well with the Retro Theme.

A bit tacky for the A2000 case, but I can install on the side of Case.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2854/32434057763_296c908bf4.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 09:32:06 PM
I think something is wrong with my Serial Bridge Setup for HxC update.

It's taking too long.  I don't want to stop the download, in case this is normal.

I've never seen a working attempt, but the fact that there is no Tx (Transmit Serial) looks suspicious to me.

Could be my wire setup.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3786/32436229283_a292177a46.jpg)

Time to check out some Goolge / YouTube resources.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 04, 2017, 11:56:31 PM
GOTEK HXC firmware download/update (not working)

HERE IS WHAT is happening.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Hooked up Gotek to Serial Port DB9 (pin-2,pin-3,pin-5)  on a Window XP PC.
[Tx-Rx] [Rx-Tx] [gnd-gnd] (Pc-Gotex)

I ran Serial Bridge.  
--> Checked PC com setting:
-------->  Bits per second [115200]
-------->  Data Bits [8]
-------->  Parity [None]
-------->  Stop Bits [1]
-------->  Flow Control [none]

Logged in via Connect. All good.

Software Bridge:
Status [Link Up!]
Com Port [Com1]
Status [Serial interface set to Com1]

It do a reset on Gotek (jumperJ3(boot0)<-> ( Vcc 3v3) permanent , then briefly (RST->ground)  )

I get a Single byte Tx[1], and it starts downloading Tx[counting up]. Which looks good!!

This goes on forever Tx[615229779] and counting  Rx[1] stays at 1

Been running for 6 hours.   Is this normal. Should there be a Rx-Count?

What could be wrong, or what do I need to do.  Wait more?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 05, 2017, 05:10:48 AM
NOTHING comes easy for me. :(

I think I figured out my problem with FLASHING the Gotek via HxC bootloader.

The Port on the PC is Serial Indeed, but it's RS232 which means Voltages around 12v or possibly higher (to handle those long Serial cables mean for Modems)

These Gotek's want TTL voltage 3.3V, or preferably 5V.

I thought I could get away without getting $2 a USB to UART.  But appears not.
I need one of these https://www.amazon.ca/6Pin-CP2102-Module-Converter-Replace/dp/B01HXLREIE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488691870&sr=8-3&keywords=usb%2Fuart+ttl (https://www.amazon.ca/6Pin-CP2102-Module-Converter-Replace/dp/B01HXLREIE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488691870&sr=8-3&keywords=usb%2Fuart+ttl)

There is a trick where you can use a Audiuno for a UART by jumpering RESET to Ground, and then the Ardiuno Tx,Rx pins become pure TTL serial.
But the problem is Aurdiuno shows up as COM 11, while Serial programmer only picks up standard Com3,4.

So I'm hoping that the local Electronic store that sells Audino will have a USB/Uart tomorrow.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 05, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
I belong on the front Cover of the Next Dummy book.   And not as a Smart Dummy, but an Idiot.

I should have known RS232 voltages are not TTL Serial.
This is what I should have used if hooking up GOTEK TTL Serial pints to PC Serial RS232 Port.

A RS232 Converter.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/449

Or built my own like this

http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/simpleSIO/ssio.htm


However, as I was looking for the part for Above DIY project, I found a brand new MAX232 Chip in my spare part box.
Left over part from the EEPROM Burner Thesis project.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAX232 (https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX3222-MAX3241.pdf)


I have to be more careful and not blow up my A2000 Motherboard
or Keyboard input, or this Retro upgrade project will be over.
--> I tested the Keyboard after hooking up the PS2 Keyboard to Amiga (** all works, nothing Damaged **)
--> I tested the RS232 Port on the Amiga, by hooking of the PC and Amiga Explorer (** all works, nothing Damaged **)
--> I tested the Gotek (** all works, nothing Damaged **)

Hoping I didn't blow the Input on the Gotek Serial Interface.
It works, but may not be upgrade able anymore.  No big deal.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 05, 2017, 04:03:47 PM
Vampire II Amiga Accelerator

I stumbled up this.  Pretty cool.

It could be the finishing touch for the Amiga side.

They had a demo at the last meeting of our local Amiga Users Group.  Too bad I missed it.

The Vampire board was designed for an Amiga 500, but appears to also work in a A2000.

Not cheap, but could be considered since it have so much to offer, HD, Video, Memory.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 05, 2017, 11:27:47 PM
**************************************************************
* DO NOT USE SETUP SHOWN in ABOVE POST (Picture of PC-serial-> GOTEK) *
**************************************************************

Setup is ** IMPROPER ** You SHOULD NOT connect RS232-Serial Port to Gotek (Wrong Voltage on RS232)
******************************************************************************************************
Will be posting a modification to include a proper Serial Device / Voltage converter (5Volt),
******************************************************************************************************

You can Connect to Gotek-Programming Tx/Rx PIN with Setups like below:

(USB serial Device), without RS232 Serial PC Port
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PL2303HX-to-USB-TTL-USB-to-Serial-Port-Arduino-WW88016364-US-/391418983928?hash=item5b2263b5f8:g:RaUAAOSwwpdW-qht

(Work with PC Serial to Convert RS232 to 5Volt)
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/449  


(DIY), using a MAX220A or similar Chip if you have one handy
https://datasheets.maximintegrated.com/en/ds/MAX220-MAX249.pdf

******************************************************************************************************
Sorry, for my mistake.  I shouldn't post methods till they are proven working.  (I tried to remove post but no longer can)
Sorry again.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 06, 2017, 01:19:44 AM
Yes, I think I will have to get some FDTI cables to programme most devices with these days.

That is one part of hardware tech that has changed a lot. Devices are faster now but not nearly so tough at taking high voltages.

Amiga keyboards seem incredibly reliable, only the rubber membranes give out after decades. Also the steel can rust in them. Apart from that, you certainly get your money's worth.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 06, 2017, 03:35:43 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823003
Vampire II Amiga Accelerator

I stumbled up this.  Pretty cool.

It could be the finishing touch for the Amiga side.

They had a demo at the last meeting of our local Amiga Users Group.  Too bad I missed it.

The Vampire board was designed for an Amiga 500, but appears to also work in a A2000.

Not cheap, but could be considered since it have so much to offer, HD, Video, Memory.


I think the waiting list is about 1.5 years roughly.   You dont know until your name comes up.  

I think this DIY accelerator is more fun.  

https://github.com/terriblefire

He's already done a 020 board and is just completing a 030 board.. next would be a 040 board.  

You can order the PCBs as he completes the projects for $10 to $20 bucks, only issue  you need to assemble/program yourself.

His youtube channel is on that project homepage, he runs alot of live video sessions about the design of his accelerators.  fun I know!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 06, 2017, 03:37:29 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;823012
Yes, I think I will have to get some FDTI cables to programme most devices with these days.



careful of FDTI chips, theres fakes and at one stage FDTI where bricking fake chips.

http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/ftdi-drivers-break-fake-chips-again/

https://zeptobars.com/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 03:43:33 AM
GOTEK (HxC) Is ALIVE with BONUS LCD too!!

So I fumbled the first time but I got it right this time.
I didn't have much confidence so I was surprised it WORKED ON FIRST TRY.

I place and order for FTDI cable on Amazon, but hasn't shipped so I'll cancel.

I did it this way, and showing all steps for next person.
I wish I knew all this before.

HERE IS THE WIRING SETUP (It was a little be of fun doing this with my spare parts)

Setup is just like before ....  
......but the MAX220 Chip goes in between PC and Gotek  to convert the RS232 Voltage to TTL and Vise Versa Back.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3666/33236400956_79d4b70f2f_c.jpg)

AND HERE is what the Process for the HxC Gotek Upgrade (from Cortex) looks like

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/658/33236399986_92bc682df9_c.jpg)

THE LCD worked right way, when i hooked it up.

This will be a nice setup for what I plan to do.
A multi Booting A2000, multiple workbenchs, and a wack of disks to chooose from.
THE LCD makes picking disk much better than paper sheet.


I was only inquiring about this Vampire card.
I actually want this Amiga to be Like it Was.  

True RETRO.

Running on an CRT Monitor with Same Look and Feel.
Gotek makes the Floppy flipping and reliability better.

---> I don't need a hard drive on the Amiga Side (I actually don't want one OS, since I want to be able to flip thru WB1.1, WB1.2, WB1.3, AmigaOS, etc)
----------> I will make or get a Kickstart Switcher.

---> I want the Bridge board 8086 running PC Apps like they use to. (YES Multiple boots just like the Gotek, but with Ranish or Flip in Different SD Cards into the ISA/IDE Adapter0

Showing how programmers back then squeezed every bit and CPU cycle out of the little they had.
We are spoiled these days, with Tons of Storage, and CPU power. (I'm sure code is not as efficient as it had to be back then).

This Amiga Should stay as is was, with a few "Convenience Improvements"

If I were to bring in a Vampired Amiga into my Son's school, and show how fast it runs compared to the Original
They would say, what Crap that software is, etc ,etc.  You know what I mean.

ONWARD, the GOTEK is DONE!!

TIME TO START some Seriously Assembly.  I have all the pieces I need.

Finally

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 04:16:20 AM
THE AMIGA 2000 (is Retro), with BridgeBoard (Double Retro)

I want to share a story about this weekend and a visitor...

Sure the Vampire Frenzy is on, and it has it's purpose on place.
I admire the developer for his brilliance, and a person who worked so hard and still working to make Vampire happen. (I read his stories)

However the A2000 is a special beast that sometimes is appreciated for something else, other than Modern Computing.

My brother in Law dropped by this weekend.
I usually give him a tour of my fish tanks and projects on the go.
He glances but wander away after a short period, since not that interested.

But this time, I showed him my Amiga Restore project.
He never saw an Amiga, but had many PC's from early generation.
When I booted the Bridgeboard PC from a 5.25" floppy his eyes lit up (He wanted to hold a 5.25" floppy).
As I explained was I was doing, he wanted to see more.
He was WOWed by the 8086 PC running inside and AMiga Window.
He was impressed with the ISA/IDE adapter, and booting from IDE.
Wanted to see more with a boot from SD card, then Flash.
He was amazed.
Then I ran Noton Disk Doctor and he was like "WOW" that brings back memories (with that original look and feel).

He stayed with great interest, and the longest ever,  He wanted to see more.
That is what an Amiga 2000 is about (these days)

Then he walked over to my Son's 2017 Gaming Machine NEWLY built over Christmas break (with the latest greatest Everything).
That was a different kind of WOW!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is what I mean.
(My personal Experience WinUae)

- Last Night with the Gotek on Hold I loaded up WinUae on my POWER-PC Workstation.
- Downloaded (Kickstart ROM & One Workbench disk>.adf) off my Amiga using Windows Explorer.
- For the first time ever, I got WinUae up and running.
----------> Sure is was cool
----------> Sure it was fast
----------> But that was it.  I wanted to go back to the True Amiga (the screen, The feel of the mouse and keyboard, etc)

Yes, now that I have WinUae, it will be a great tool for getting my Gotek and Workbench all organized, with everything in one place, and network/toold/ USB transfer,etc

But it will always be back (with Images to the [Gotek for the Amiga], and [SD card for the 8086]....... to built the Ultimate Retro Machine
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 04:54:29 AM
...Double post deleted.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 05:04:10 AM
..
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 08:28:21 AM
Gotek HxC Upgrade Completed (Installed in Amiga / Dual Image Managers)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/749/32438131274_90056e821f_c.jpg)

-
Haven't tested HxC for (Read/Write, ADF, other formats), but I trust it will work from the Documentation I saw.
- You do lose the 7-Segment, 3 Digit Counter on the Gotek Front Panel when you hook up LCD (but I'll find a purpose for it...Someday)

With the HxC Gotek done, I have all the bits and pieces for the Final Amiga Build.

But... Fish Tank Auto-Doser is next on To-Do List.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 06, 2017, 05:48:45 PM
Actually my Build List is not complete.

With the Kickstart 3.1 ROM, I can't boot many of my old floppies (some of the best games).
They work on Kickstart 1.2 ROM.

So I'm need a ROM switcher, to complete the multi- functional A2000.


Also another side project possible.
 
The 7 Segement LED on the Gotek is not functional since the HxC code doesn't support multiple Display via IC2. (It picks up one or the other), which is fine.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A future Project to Make some Cool use with the Gotek LED Display via Ic2 and an Audino Nano
--> Have a spare Ardiuno Nano (that talks IC2, and will fit easily into A2000)
----------> https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardNano
--> Here is the code to discover the IC2 Address of the LED Driver. (Can't find data sheet for it, but this will work)
----------> http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/76617/determining-i2c-address-without-datasheet
--> Here is how to drive the LED display with the Audino SDA/SDL lines
----------> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-serial-7-segment-display/example-3-i2c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the Nano inputs, can pick up anything from the A2000 and provide some kind of output on the LED display.  (Power on Counter, Hard drive inditcator, Button Pushes, etc)


I'll find anything to work on to avoid going back to the complex Fish Tank Doser project. :( :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 07, 2017, 05:47:44 AM
HxC on Gotek (Part 2) The HxC-FileMangerSoftware

So I've been learning and testing the new HxC Gotek Setup.

There is another piece you may need above and beyond the FileSelector (
Which is shown two posts above)

The HxC package has a Windows/MAC software tool that you can manage your Disk Images.

Although the Latest version of HxC Gotek Firmware supporst ADF files directly (Read/Write), you can also store the Image Files in the HxC Native format which is HFE.

I haven't played with HFE format yet, since using ADF is a snap.  I just copied a Workbench disk from a Floppy, and then placing it into the Boot Spot on the HxC USB stick, it booted pefectly.

The HFE file format allow you to go beyond ADF for the Amiga, in the various other Amiga File system formats.

The File Manger allow you to:
----> convert ADF and other format to HFE
----> convert HFE to ADF, ot DOS, etc
----> and much more (like batch mode...) as shown in the Screen shot.

HXC is Awesome, and much better than Cortex for just $10 Euros.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3675/32915966010_19de9fde41_z.jpg)


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 07, 2017, 11:22:02 PM
Good job documenting.   How much did the HxC firmware cost ?  Ive never really looked into it, Ive only used the free Cortex one.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 07, 2017, 11:49:36 PM
Hxc firmware for Gotek costs 10 Euro.
That includes everything.

But to complete the upgrade if you want you need a drill.
Since if you open the gotek there is a red LED in there.
It is all soldered in place. Ready to program.

If you drill a tiny hole left of the green LED you can push out the RED led and HxC firmware enables it to blinks for some unknown purpose.
Looks cooler then just one green LED for Cortek Firmware blinks.

I love LED's and I am very close to enabling the 3 digit, Seven segment red counter LED on the Gotek front.
Once enabled, I'm handing over it to the animation department (My Son).
Coming soon.....Gotek Pimping Extreme :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 08, 2017, 05:22:32 AM
BACK TO JANUS Puzzle (and a Amiga Hard Drive PARTITION on ISA/IDE-CF or RRL-HD [PC 8086] )

The Gotek is figure out, and LED toys can wait.

--> I need to work on the Whole Amiga Booting off the PC Bridgeboard Disk, and why Jlink, Aread, Awrite was not working.
--> And MOST IMPORTANTLY why I could NOT Format and Mount the Amiga Partition off the RLL Drive.

AND I FOUND A CLUE,
which I stumbled up during  GOOGLE SEARCH.

There were TWO versions of JANUS.  I found a section in a SCSI Hard Drive Installation Guide.

*** THE Step for JANUS version 1 and Janus V2 are VERY DIFFERENT **

I think I've been mixing up the two versions.  I didn't even know there were two.

So looking thru all my Bridgeboard disk, I confirmed that I was using both somehow, somewhere.  Possibly mixed, and using Steps from V2 on V1 Software.

Doesn't explain all the issues, but gives me motivation to focus on working within a version.

Here is PROOF  (Two Floppies I've been using), and the Hard Drive manual stating different steps.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3733/33189082581_7d0239f3d1.jpg)

At least I feel a bit less crazy, knowing there may be a reason for my Past Struggles.

Next steps
are to TRY BOTH and SEE DIFFERENCES.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 08, 2017, 05:52:53 AM
What I'm going to do (Janus V2)....

---> I did run the Janus V2 Install before using the "Auto-Install" BLACK-ICON shown in above Photo (Right side)
---------> But I Partially/Improperly? ran it since I didn't know the ANSWERS to the various PROMPTED Steps
----------------> This time I going to run the Manual Method (Described in the Hard Drive Install Guide)
----------------> This time to create a DOS partition on a "Fake-Amiga-Hard-Drive DF2:Floppy", just like I did for the HARD-FILE last time (That worked for me Before)

Then if that works (I will flip things around, and create an Amiga Partition on the PC Hard drive)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 08, 2017, 06:40:32 AM
QUESTION: ( Is there a way to find out what Version SW Is (ON AMIGA)?

When I run DJMOUNT, or have JANUS.Libraray in Expansion Folder (HOw do I figure out what version it is).

Just running the command provides no clues.

-> At least in MS DOS when I mismatch DOS and Jdisk.sys, it complains (Wrong DOS version).

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 08, 2017, 09:45:00 AM
The Gotek (Hxc) is Sweet!!

After reading that HD Install Manual I learned a lot (Including a missing step for the Jlink DOS disk setup [Not in the Bridgeboard Manual]

Also found out there is a Janus Install Program on the Install DISK.

Here is how easy it is was to Download the (DMS) INSTALL DISK off of Amiga.Resouce.cx web site and POP into the Amiga.   (1 minute)

Not sure how easy it is with WinUae, but this beats Amiga Explorer Hands down.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/609/33319756365_19d3481349_b.jpg)

The LCD display will be Very Hand once the USB stick is loaded up.
 
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3872/33164653402_310de6a9a2_c.jpg)

Cool Eh? :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 08, 2017, 10:31:06 AM
Sounds like you are getting there slowly.

I seem to recall a small flurry of complaints re Janus updates when they happened. A lot of existing BB users were very upset when the "latest version" broke their existing setup and they had to revert to the older version, copy all their data, and reinstall.

Nice work on the Gotek. Seems a bit hit and miss setting the thing up, but persistence gets you a working floppy emulator eventually...
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Dandy on March 08, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823071


QUESTION: Is there a way to find out what Version SW Is(ON AMIGA)?

When I run DJMOUNT, or have JANUS.Libraray in Expansion Folder (HOw do I figure out what version it is).

Just running the command provides no clues.
...



AmigaOS Manual: AmigaDOS Command Reference: Version (http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Command_Reference#VERSION)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 08, 2017, 02:57:21 PM
Thanks Dandy.

I actually was thinking about you last night when reading the details of the Hard Drive Manual( Bridgeboard section)..

I think your comment earlier was correct.
You might be 100% correct in your statement that "you can't Autoboot PC Bridgeboard side".

I am still testing, but I think I stumbled on a Modern Technology solution with the ISA/IDE Adapter (MS DOS boot).  
It would have not been possible in 1990 (no Lotech Adapter).

So the Miracle solution I stumbled upon is thanks to Pat for suggesting to me getting a Lotech ISA/IDE Adapter.

I think my DOS Boots off the SD card only works because the Lotech Adapter doesn't work on power up.  
It tricks the Amiga to think no Hard drive at power up, so leaves Autoboot enabled.  
Then a 8086 reset (thru Icon, or CTRL-ALT-Delete), activates the Lotech-HardDrive, then reboots PC via AutoBoot[enabled].. ( with emtpy Aboot.cnfg file).

If the lotech adapter initialized on power up my 8086, I would have to rebooted PC with a Floppy.

What this means is I'll never be able to boot 8086-BB-PC off the Western Digital/RLL Drive (because it picks up on power up)
---> I was thinking a trick solution (Have a mechanical power ON/OFF-switch to RLL drive.  So during power up, no RLL drive.  Then turn on RLL drive after power up to enable Autoboot)

Not a problem, SD card is way better.

I will find out soon with more testing.  
If JANUS doesn't pick up the hard drive Amiga Parition on Power up (Lotech), so I'll never be able to create a working Amiga Partition off the 8086 Hard drive.  I can't CTRL-ALT-DELETE to re-initialize JANUS.library load (but there may be trick, a script to run DJmount later, but I think Janus.library load is key...We'll see)

IS THERE ARE WAY to LOAD "Expansion folder" (Janus.library driver) after Workbench starts up?  I think dynamic is not possible.

I think my choice will be One or the other, never both (Amiga & PC Hard drives together, on ONE-HARD-DRIVE).  

Unless I find a another trick. [like the power switch I mentioned above]
Which bring me to an IDEA.  I am installing the Aurdiuno controller for the Gotek Display.
With a Relay I could automatically delay the power up of RLL drive, or SD card adapter.  (FUture project)

Yes, a Hard drive in Zorro II slot and Hard drive in ISA slot would work to solve both. (Maybe).
--> But I don't have an Amiga Hard drive.
--> TOO BAD THERE IS NO LO-Tech-[ZorroII/IDE] Adapter. (That would be Awesome).  I guess the Vampire-II is that, plus more.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 09, 2017, 07:18:55 AM
I need a decent FileManager for Amiga

I don't expect modern MS windows Quality, but for me to do my testing and build some Custom Workbench disks (From bits an peices of other disks)
Some kind of  need a GUI FileManager for Amiga.

-> Something to look at 2/3 Floppies side by side and be able to copy (multiple files) from one to another.
-> Create directories (nice to have)
-> Delete files
-> Maybe see file sizes ( Really nice to have)
-> Doesn't have to be mouse drive, could be even cursor driven.

This will help a lot.

QUICK UPDATE:

--> I tried that GVP HD Sofware disk (Bridgeboard install tool).  
------>** Nothing New **
------> It doesn't do much except copy of the basic Janus/and PCwindow Files (From the standard PCinstall disk)
-------> There was only one extra step at the end that offer to create a HardFile on the HardDrive.

--> I tried the Version Command (but in WB 1.2 it just shows Workbench/Kickstart Versions
--> I assume the Version name FILE syntax is for Amiga OS (may try WinUae with AmigaOS to peek Versions at my ADF copy of floppies [bit a transfer work]

--> Finally got back to my Fish Tank (TO DO) List
-------> Things were getting bad with all the Amiga Distractions
-------> Did some long overdue maintenance the Main Kitchen Tank.  All clean and tidy now.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3741/32522422243_bc242c1814_n.jpg)


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 09, 2017, 04:49:18 PM
** [1 BIG breakthrough ] , [ 2 Important Discoveries ] , and a  [ Confirmation of Suspicion ] **

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JANUS:

Some really good progress with Running the Newest Bridgeboard Janus Install disk.

- Basically I found a root cause to many of my problems of the past.
- It's clearly seen in past screen shots, but nobody noticed, and my lack of knowing/seeing a properly working  system was the problem.
----> The Janus Handler wasn't matched with the Janus Library
---------
> I know JANUS.library is one file, but where is the Handler File

Now that Both are matched (Jlink works), but (DJMOUNT doesn't ** YET**)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3814/32960774930_578b970597_z.jpg)

While  jumping around to compare various Janus BB disk, I discovered that  there is more than one PC-Window program.   The newest version works the  worst for me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUTO BOOT (DOS PC - Rll Drive vs ISA/IDE):
--> I put back the WD-RLL drive into Amiga.  
--> I put in the Last Working Workbench Disk. The one that worked with Lo-Tech SD card AUTO BOOT  (Ctrl-Alt-Del).
--------->  RLL (Boot ready) Hard Drive won't boot for C:  
------- >>>>> THIS CONFIRMS "Dandy's" Statement.  PC Drive cannot AutoBoot Boot DOS from (Normal) Hard Disk
------- >>>>> THIS CONFIRMS The LoTech ISA BIOS (Init) Delay is a Failure that Make PC AutoBoot after CTRL-ALT-DEL and EMPTY(Aboot.ctrl) file (Good Abnormal)

What this means:

---> I can never install the WD-Controller/RLL drive if I want to boot BB-PC without a 5.25" floppy. (Don't need it with ISA/IDE anymore)
====>  I either sell it, or do A Post (HD Power up) after systems are stable (if that works..No Idea yet)

---> If I don't get the [Amiga-DJMOUNT] <-> [ BB-PC] <-> [ ISA/IDE-SD ] working,  I won't have a Bootable Amiga from HARD DISK (Even from Kickstart 1.3/AmigaOS3.1)
--------> My ULTIMATE GOAL won't be achieved to build a FLOPPY less [Amiga/BB-PC] (Except for Gotek Solution, but very limited on Storage SPACE)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Next Step:


With all libraries good.  Time to do (One-More-Time) all the Steps of the Bridgeboard Installation Guide for an AmigaOS Boot off PC-Hard-Disk (Fdisk,Adisk,Format)
.....

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 09, 2017, 07:36:07 PM
L directory for Amiga handler files and file systems. Of boot disk.

It  looks from the "matched library and handler" screen shot that you tried  to Jlink the C drive but the Janus setting didn't match the hard disk  partition contents.

Perhaps they can be incompatible between  different versions of Janus... Not sure how compatible they are between  different versions of DOS either.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 09, 2017, 08:14:30 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;823128
L directory for Amiga handler files and file systems. Of boot disk.
Thanks, I will look.

Quote from: Pat the Cat;823128
It  looks from the "matched library and handler" screen shot that you tried  to Jlink the C drive but the Janus setting didn't match the hard disk  partition contents.
I am pretty sure you are correct.  That is the first thing that came to my mind.
There could be a good reason.   After giving up on THIS RLL drive (as a Amiga Boot Drive).  

I created for experimenting:

[Primary-Partition #1, DOS-Active ( C: ) ]
[Primary-Partition #2, DOS-Extended,DOS-Logical ( D: ]
[Primary-Partition #3, Amiga, Not-Active]

The bridge board manual says only Create [#1] [#3] above as [#1][#2]

That could be the issues as Janus (Janus.Library & DJmount) look for the Amiga Partition is some set way.

So I need to re-partition the RLL HD with (fdisk,adisk) Fresh, and Try Again.

Quote from: Pat the Cat;823128
Perhaps they can be incompatible between  different versions of Janus... Not sure how compatible they are between  different versions of DOS either.

Yup, that's the whole headache, mix matching the various versions.

Too bad my original BB-2088 3.25" Floppy is DEAD, and I don't have the 5.25" BB-DOS Floppy that came with my Bridge board.

I was hoping the "VERSION" command would help, but it doesn't for WB1.2
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 10, 2017, 12:34:20 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823105
I need a decent FileManager for Amiga

I don't expect modern MS windows Quality, but for me to do my testing and build some Custom Workbench disks (From bits an peices of other disks)
Some kind of  need a GUI FileManager for Amiga.

Directory Opus (aka Dopus)   Alternatives would be Disk Master or File Master.

Edit - a modern version is available on PC.  https://www.gpsoft.com.au/   I recently purchased a copy from the Humble Bundle for 10 bucks or something like that.   https://www.humblebundle.com

(https://thebucketdiary.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/directoryopus4-18-29.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 10, 2017, 05:33:18 AM
:cool::cool: Slick Darkage :cool: Really Slick  :cool::cool:

Exactly what I need to continue my Sherlock Homes work.

Watson, will be impressed with this next Post!

Thanks

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 10, 2017, 06:29:01 AM
***********************************
** MAY BE Biggest Breakthrough So Far!! **
***********************************

I was going to RE-PARTITION and FORMAT the RLL Hard Drive in the Amiga BB PC Side.

--> To do only two partitions, hoping DJMOUNT would pick up the 2nd Amiga Partition.

But S!#T , I spent so much time on the 486 copying stuff into it Partion D: (right in the Middle, just below the AMIGA Partition....So no way to preserve).

So I was going for first attempt, SUBSTITUTE the Lo-TECH-SD Combo.
But I was SURE that wouldn't Inititiatize on COLD START (since I tested a few times).   So pointless.

But I installed the Lo-Tech Adapter, and thought WTF, let's give a Boot and see what happens.  

TA-DAH!!!

I did not expect this. (REMEMBER, the Left Side shows Lo-Tech Booting ** BUT (NEVER EVER) from COLD BOOT, it took a 2nd CTRL-ALT-DEL boot to Trigger Lotech **)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3900/33225611051_2c99299651_b.jpg)

What is shows is more than you initially think.
I'm still trying to digest this info what I may do next.

--> First to make this happen I have to change the jumper on Lo-Tech Adress to D800h.  
-------> The Default of C800 is the same as the Western Digital Controller.
-------> So both Controller would Conflict. (This was my grief originally on the 486).  I LEARNED.

What happened is by having the Western Digtial Controller and the Lo-Tech Adapter in the ISA Slots, the BB-PC did an Initialization of the Lo-Tech Adapter.

--> But the best part is that I didn't have to CTRL-ALT-DELETE to trigger the Init, like before.
--> THE INIT HAPPENED ON COLD BOOT!!

This could be a possible Game Changer, since if we have an Init on COLD BOOT.  Then JANUS might pick up one of the Physical DISKS.

And if it does, then if I get DJMOUNT Working, then I'll have a DOUBLE BOOTING AMIGA (NO FLOPPIES NEEDED)


--> It still didn't boot C: drive, but it Can't since C: is on the 2nd Physical Disk.
---> This was a still a boot off a 5.25" Floppy
--> DOS assigns C: to the First Physical Disk.

----> There could be few ways to achieve my goal.
----------> Jumper the RLL to DISK 2, If Possible via W-Digital C-Board
----------> Some other way.  I'm still trying to digest this.


HERE ARE THE FDISK AND A DISKS OUTPUTS

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3955/32970529220_c39a915ac0_b.jpg)

With this setup I got a Ton of Space.  Way to much for the PC MS DOS side.

--> I never thought I could keep the RLL Drive.
-------> Now I can.  Kind of nice to keep it in the Amiga RETRO Time Capsule

BUT THIS MAKES "Solving the DJMOUNT" and "Format of the PC Partition from the AMIGA" a MUST!

----> "FLOPPY DISK FREE" AMIGA/PC/AMIGA (Gotek, and Hard Drive(s) )

ONWARD.  Carefully!

-> But think about this.  If this Proves there is an INIT on the ISA BUS
-> It means there must be an attempt to boot the RLL Drive
---------> I see it happening with the LED blinking during Cold Start.
---> Why doesn't that RLL C: Drive BOOT?  
---------> Maybe it's the FORMAT?  MBR?  BOOTBLOCK?
---------------> TIME TO CALL 1-800-RANISH!! (before I re-partition)
---------------> And compare the FIRST Potention C: Drive Partitions
-----------------------> Lotech-SDcard (which Boots)
-----------------------> WD-RLL (which does not Boot)

Love Ranish!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 10, 2017, 06:59:26 AM
WHY DO I Spend So much Time Doing these Posts with DETAILED IMAGES?

Let me explain....

It's my way of thinking things through.  Digesting the info, and putting together the bits an pieces.

I would have never have gotten this far without creating my diagrams.
When I spend the time to organize the SLIDES ...It sticks in my head.
Better than on Scrap pieces of paper cluttering my desk.

I teach my kids that best way to study is to write something at least once.  Better than reading or thinking.  (I read that somewhere in a Article...never wrote it down. .....  Now I did. ).

Yeah, when I finish this Journey, I'll summarize the FULL WORKING SETUP.
Nice and compact.

But I need this.

And I think it helps give clear Information to all of you on the Forum to bump-assist me along they way.

THANK you ALL !

BTW.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--> I got an thought after writing above Post.  
--------> Since the Lo-tech can handle TWO drives.
--------> I can just ribbon cable on the IDE-COMPACT FLASH ADAPTER
--------> Just make it a SLAVE
---------------> Why not.  I paid for it.  Sitting on desk collecting Dust.

A 8086 XT PC

----->  Running MS DOS 6.2
-----> 16 GB  + 512Mb + 33Mb  of Disk Space  
-------------> Across 3 Physical drives  
(SD card) + (CF) + (RLL Hard Disk)  
----------------------> , 8x Partitions
------------------------------->  and possibly a 1x BOOTING Amiga Partition.  (I hope!)
---> And access to A GOTEK!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Retro Meets the Future-Present......Cool) :cool:


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: darkage on March 10, 2017, 11:55:06 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823162
WHY DO I Spend So much Time Doing these Posts with DETAILED IMAGES?





Im still waiting for that book of yours :P
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 10, 2017, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: darkage;823167
Im still waiting for that book of yours :P
The way things are going, THE BOOK is going to be a while.

I'm thinking of releasing THE (YouTube) MOVIE I keep mentioning.

Is anyone interested?  

Really Cool.  Even my son was amazed and hung around when I was shooting it.  

(Hint.  SpinRite/RLL Unboxed.)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 10, 2017, 10:09:58 PM
Encyclopedia of JUMPERS (Really Handy)

I have been fooling around with various Jumpers on my HD Controller and Hardrives to get things working (multiple disks).

Found this Resource that has almost every piece of StoneAge HW ever made, and the jumper Settings.

http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 11, 2017, 02:51:10 AM
I can't figure this out and May Give up Soon (one more try)

I tried to re-partition the RLL Hard Drive, and as soon as I did a "fdisk /mbr" it when back to the usual (problem behavior...ADISK doesn't pick up partition.  
I was hoping this would work for getting JAnus/DJmount picking up the PC-DOS side HD partition.

All bad like weeks ago.
 At least this time I know how to restore to working.
 ---> LL-Format and  a Clean FDISK and new MBR, then ADISK right away.

This is something to do this FAT versions, and MBR.
When I run Ranish against the booting SD Card Drive, it is Fat-16.
The RLL drive is FAT-12 even thought I used same MSDOS6.2 on both.

My last two attempts will be:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ RLL and Lotek DRIVES in 486 ]
To take out the RRL-Drive, and Lo-tech-SD and put into 486.  
Things behaved the same way last time.  (But BIOS is totally different).
I keep blaming JANUS or BB-BIOS for the problem (it may not be either).

--> If I get things to work on 486, and move over to Amiga.  
--------> That will tell me something.
--> If it doesn't work on 486, then fine. (End of story).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Try GOTEK on Bridgeboard PC as 5.25" Floppy ]
I am thinking of moving the GOTEK over to the Amiga PC
-------> (5.25" disk drive has a different Crimp connector, Try the regular Floppy cable from one of my PC's )
THe HxC support 5.25" disk formats.  Not sure if 320K which is all BB handles.
-> Boot from A: drive.  (Gotek)
-> Make RLL C: Drive
---> And user this new DOS thing I learned from the GVP User manual
---> set comspec=c:\command.com
-----------> This transfers the DOS interpreter from the A: drive to C: drive

Then see if AMIGA OS picks up the C: drive (Amiga Partition) via DJmount
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That will end of this never ending, mind boggling, pain in the ass issue.

-> If nothing works, ... I won't have a Amiga Hard Drive.  
-> Gotek AMIGA Booting will have to do.

This is is not fun anymore :(

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 11, 2017, 03:34:03 AM
GOTEK ( 5.25" 360K Floppy Image)

Nothing comes easy for me.

Gotek comes with a pile of ready BLANK floppy images.

Even PC DOS 3.5" 1.44Mb,  etc

But no 5.25 360K which I need for Amiga BB PC.

So I need to find the Paramater for a 5.25" 360K, and then just PUSH "Create a Empty Floppy"

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3750/33241453141_a33966a283_z.jpg)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: SACC-guy on March 11, 2017, 03:54:03 AM
For me this thread has been a fun, memory filled read!

But, why didn't you just read the manual/user guide?  janus pages 47- 51?

In it it tells you step by step how to setup a system disk for the amiga
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 11, 2017, 04:56:17 AM
Quote from: SACC-guy;823190
For me this thread has been a fun, memory filled read!

But, why didn't you just read the manual/user guide?  janus pages 47- 51?

In it it tells you step by step how to setup a system disk for the amiga

Glad you enjoyed the painful Journey thru Retro Times.
There were some good moments, and hoping for One More.

However which manual are you referring to page 47-51.
If you have the magic step you would be my hero.

I have read every Manual I could find, English, German.
The best steps are in this manual http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Pages 58-74

I've done these steps (4 Methods) many times.

The only one that works for me is the HARD FILE (AutoBoot) off an AMIGA Filesystem. Page 58.  I use that for the way it was designed, and also for a trick to get my C: drive (SD Card) to Boot.

The other methods like in Appendix E:  Don't work.  They should, but they don't work  for me.  

There are many reasons why things haven't worked.
I've fix most of my issues and am close...

But not quite there.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 11, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
I GIVE UP on Janus (For DJmount and AmigaHD off PC-HD)  ** Time to move on **

I gave it one more attempt.

I did everything from Scratch.

I learned that the ExpansionFolder(Janus.library) is what shows up on the PC Boot Window after During BIOS start.

The Janus Library Version and Janus Handler Version are from the Amiga Library that is loaded during Amiga Boot.

Nothing worked cleanly.

I did notice the Divide Overflow that show up (in PC window after running DJmount on Amiga Side), but not on my OLD hacked Workbench disks.

The DHmount HANGS, but even during a HANG  "JH0: Device" show up in the "assign command".

When JH0: shows up it allow the "FORMAT DRIVE JH0: "disk-name" command to start, but hangs.

I did go back to one old HACKed workbench disk, and for some reasons it loads all the way.  Format doesn't work.

There is some underlying reason for things not working as they should.
It like when I trying to get the RLL drive to work (it was a flipped cable, and not matter what I did, it wouldn't work, till I got cables right)

I even am suspicious that I should remove the Math Co-Processor on the Bridge Board.  Could that be the Divide by Zero Error.

I don't know.

Here are my Install Testing results:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3760/32540310884_ea4aca4ee4_c.jpg)


Time to move on and build the Amiga with many good pieces I have.
--> But no HD on Amiga Side :(
--> The Gotek will be a workaround, but not that great since Booting WB disk will constantly be asked for. (2nd Floppy will be fine, but not Ideal)

Next step
will be to see if Gotek HxC will work as 5.25" Floppy replacement for BB PC
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: SACC-guy on March 11, 2017, 09:27:56 PM
I was going to copy the pages in my manual (which is different then yours)
But if you are done (I understand)

My suggestion is get a hard drive controller for the amiga (scsi or ide) but...
Best is a 030/040 (o6o are too hard to find) card with memory and scsi specs!
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 11, 2017, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: SACC-guy;823209
I was going to copy the pages in my manual (which is different then yours)
But if you are done (I understand)

My suggestion is get a hard drive controller for the amiga (scsi or ide) but...
Best is a 030/040 (o6o are too hard to find) card with memory and scsi specs!

Well if your manual has something different that might give me a clue, PLEASE POST (so I can spend more countless hours on this Pain in the A__ :) )

Yes, I think I'll start look at a hard drive controller/HD combo.
IDE would be the best since I could use the spare IDE/Compact Flash card. (I haven't see any on sale recently)

I looked here for a list of possible solutions http://amiga.resource.cx/expansion.html

What exactly is a 30/40/60?.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 12, 2017, 02:18:53 AM
STRESS Relief for (ME) and the Gotek/AmigaFloppy Drive (Ribbon Cable Too Short)

I've been struggling with the Original Amiga Floppy Cable.

Just too Short for both the A-Floppy and the Gotek.
Gotek won't even reach the Front of the Chassis.

I already bent the Connector pin on the A-Drive once getting Connector on.  

I took a trip to the Local Electronic Supplier.  They had nothing for Ribbon cables.  All modern cables.

Then the store guy pointed out a clearance bin, and I found just want I needed.  
I've never see these kind of cables before.  PULL TAB is great!!
There was only One.  Too bad they didn't have these for the rest of the Amiga Cables.

$4 on Clearance

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2852/33231574482_bf71fe73ce_c.jpg)

I put this cable on the Amiga MB, and splice in with the Gold Header pins ($1)

This will give me less stress, and same for the Gotek/Floppy-Drive.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 12, 2017, 02:37:07 AM
Hear about the Book Coming out "Commodore: The Amiga Years" (June 2017)

As I was looking for resources with my issues, I stumbled up on this book that is coming out in.

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Amiga-Years-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0994031025/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489285854&sr=8-1&keywords=commodore+amiga+book

The previous Book "Commodore: A Company on Edge" came out in 2010.
Paper copy cost $176, but Ebook just $23

https://www.amazon.ca/Commodore-Company-Edge-Brian-Bagnall/dp/0973864966/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=96NSM90CVNR60YJ01HEP

I've re-kindle my interest in Amiga History, since I'm building a piece it.

I might get the E-book for stress relief reading during this Project. (The cable isn't going to be enough :) )
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 12, 2017, 05:49:38 PM
Kickstart ROM Switcher (Need one to continue Build)

I have many loose ends to finish up my build but I want to try Workbench 1.3, AmigaOS.

Still want Kickstart 1.2 ROM for Game Floppy Boots on Gotek, and just to be able to load WB1.2 for Retro sake.

I don't want to keep manually changing ROMs which requires taking out Power Supply, and I'm going to break something eventually.

Amigakit doesn't appear to have the Classic ROM Switcher available anymore
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=947

The newer Flash ROM Switcher is pricey but also not available yet
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1280

So I placed my name on a waiting list for this Switcher on AmiBay.
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?60790-A500-A2000-Automatic-Kickstart-Switcher-New-project!/page55
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: SACC-guy on March 12, 2017, 09:29:11 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823211
Well if your manual has something different that might give me a clue, PLEASE POST (so I can spend more countless hours on this Pain in the A__ :) )

Yes, I think I'll start look at a hard drive controller/HD combo.
IDE would be the best since I could use the spare IDE/Compact Flash card. (I haven't see any on sale recently)

I looked here for a list of possible solutions http://amiga.resource.cx/expansion.html

What exactly is a 30/40/60?.
Okay, will copy the pages...

The Amiga has a 68000 cpu...
The Amiga 2000 also has a co-proccesor slot for "speedup", cards with the cpu 68020 or 68030 or the cpu 68040, leading up to the 68060.
Other features were memory and scsi controllers (a handful of ide add on too)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 13, 2017, 03:22:38 AM
Quote from: SACC-guy;823248
Okay, will copy the pages...

The Amiga has a 68000 cpu...
The Amiga 2000 also has a co-proccesor slot for "speedup", cards with the cpu 68020 or 68030 or the cpu 68040, leading up to the 68060.
Other features were memory and scsi controllers (a handful of ide add on too)

Thanks.  Looking Forward to any tidbit clues that might be the manual.

And as Far as Accelerator Cards.  I was never exposed to the technology.  I assume the Vampire2 is the 68060 you are referring to.  
I don't need acceleration at this point, just need a hard drive.
 But the Vampire give you both.

I got an IDEA. (Might not work, but worth Trying)

Since I have no idea why my Bridgeboard install steps can't get past the DJMOUNT and the FORMAT, why not skip that Step outside the of A2000.

--> I can't move the RLL drive into my Window 10 PC
--> I can't run WinUae on my 486 (Can I ?)

--> BUT I can move the HARD DRIVE IMAGE on the SD Card into my Windows 10 Machine, and access it via WinUAE
----------> Run the Workbench Format command on that Paritition
----------> Then move back into AMIGA all Formatted, with a OS

As shown below to be clear:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3714/33409756735_9bb9500c39_c.jpg)


I've never used WinUAE, except couple days ago to take a Copy of my Kickstart and WB 1.2 and load it.  

Shouldn't be to hard to mount the SD cards as a Hard DISK drive.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 13, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
:) FIGURE IT OUT ALL  :) (PC-BOOT/Amiga HD) issues. (Janus Versions have subtle variations)

** I wouldn't have had any of these issues if I had an Amiga Hard Drive, but I don't  (YET) **

*** THIS IS MIND BOGGLING. **
* I don't expect anyone to understand this, by  reading this post. You need to see the testing **

So I thought I was going crazy over last long while, and didn't know what I was doing.
I thought I may have HW issues, etc.

Hardly the truth.  
Everything in previous posts makes 100% sense to me now.
EVERYTHING IS WORKING as DESIGNED!!

This is what made me understand it all.

When trying to create a lo-Tech SD card Parition to Take to WinUAE, I didn't put in the WD-Controller/RLL drive.

This message came up, which I've seen before (INSERT Volume "WORK")

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/582/33382570336_ed3fe4a46b.jpg)

-> I investigated the Janus Install created WB disk to find that it has an "ABoot.ctrl" file.
-> In that ABoot file is a hard file entry to WORK:PDDrives/DriveC
--------> ** Disk was created from a Fresh/Untoched Factory Workbench 1.2 Disk **
--------> ** Workbench Disk was modified by Janus 2 Install Disk **
--------> ** I DID NOT CREATE THIS FILE, Janus 2 Install DID **

-
> This is very similar to my WOrking Lo-Tech Workbench (Janus 1)
------> Janus-1 Workbench disk boots the Lotech (C: drive).  
------> Janus 2 does not Boot (just picks up the Lotech C: drive).

So what I've discovered is the various versions of Janus changed over time.

-> THE BRILLIANT AMIGA Engineers evolved JANUS over time as Computers/Peripherals Became available.
-> And left me to solve this undocumented technical Version-Mix MAZE.

Each version of Janus does things slightly differently.

ALL THESE PIECES are way to complicated to explain.

But in  nutshell.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> Janus 1 will Boot my Lotech C: drive
(but needs WD/RLL drive present)
-----> Will NOT WORK from COL
D AMIGA BOOT (needs CTRL-ALT-DEL BB-PC)
----->  Lotech/SD (must be at C800),  WD/RRL (CANNOT BE INSTALLED)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> Janus 2 will NOT boot my Lotech C: drive (but will recognize Lotech)
 
-----> Will WORK from COLD AMIGA BOOT  
-----> WD/RLL (must be at C8000), Lotech/SD (must be at D800)
-----> Boot has to be from A: DRIVE (Floppy DOS boot disk)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And to further complicate things.


----> The WD/RLL drive will simply not Boot DOS (Even on 486)
---------> It will recognize C: drive (in Janus 1, and Janus 2)
-------------> So something is wrong with MBR, etc (???)

My thoughts beyond this:

---> This is Certainly Janus Version differences (even within Janus 1)
-------> My original Workbench Disk has a Janus (filesize) smaller than All the Janus Libraries I have downloaded.
------------> So yet another (really early version of Janus) that worked.
------------> Problem is (I can see the Janus.library file but disk is corrupted to get full file)

---> It could even be that I need a BridgeBoard BIOS upgrade to work with newer versions of JANUS

SUMMARY:

Each Version of JANUS probes the "ISA Bus Via Bridgeboard"  the PHSYICAL Drives differently (who know how that is then done for Amiga Partitions within.).

I have some idea's how to solve this (For things to work they way I want).  Getting a HD for Amiga is one.
Stay tuned.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 13, 2017, 10:36:00 PM
"Off the cuff" thought...

... If you can get the DriveC file from the disk you started the Amiga with back in your university days working with an old version of BB software...

... That should allow you to DJMount properly and get the BB started up from the old hard disk?
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 13, 2017, 10:49:48 PM
Might be a repost, but apparently somebody did a set of PC utils to help BB PCs access the Amiga side...

https://www.uni-due.de/~be0001/atutilities/

Probably not much use to you, will keep hunting for very old BB software.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 13, 2017, 10:51:20 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;823319
"Off the cuff" thought...

... If you can get the DriveC file from the disk you started the Amiga with back in your university days working with an old version of BB software...

... That should allow you to DJMount properly and get the BB started up from the old hard disk?

Pat, I am thinking like you are....

-> I can't get C: drive back (100%).  When I did image DUMP, it already had MBR missing.  I got everything past 2nd sector.

-> I am going to flip thru every OLD Floppy Workbench I have to find maybe 2nd Copy of that Really OLD JANUS.libary.

Right now I have the WD/RLL drive in the 486, and hacking at it to Patition, Format, and get it DOS Booting. (no luck yet).
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 13, 2017, 11:12:44 PM
I have a site for you - I have no idea if any of these installs will  work, but there is quite a selection to try.... even original Sidercar  install. Also 1.2 for A2000. SOMETHING should work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020635/http://amigadisks.co.cc

All ADFs, good job you have a Gotek. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 14, 2017, 04:48:06 AM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;823322
I have a site for you - I have no idea if any of these installs will  work, but there is quite a selection to try.... even original Sidercar  install. Also 1.2 for A2000. SOMETHING should work.

https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020635/http://amigadisks.co.cc

All ADFs, good job you have a Gotek. :)

Pat, you got me excited when I saw these links BELOW.

A2088T Install-Disk V1.02. (327KB). File: _a2088.adf (https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020635/http://rare/_a2088.adf)
A2088T Install-Disk V1.02. (327KB). File: _a2088t.adf (https://web.archive.org/web/20101118020635/http://rare/_a2088t.adf)

THEY LOOK like (TITLE WISE) like my ORIGINAL "BridgeBoard 2088" Floppy which is totally Dead.

But I guess you never clicked on them for Download like I did.
THE LINKS point to the "Wayback Machine" and they are all dead links.

Would have been interesting to see the ADF's.

Thanks for trying.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 14, 2017, 12:41:02 PM
Blast. Sorry for that, am using a crawly slow net access...

... actual files should still be on there, they've been moved somewhere else.

Will find correct links and post, but very slow job and will need a faster connection to do the job properly.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: paul1981 on March 14, 2017, 01:09:41 PM
http://grandis.nu:81/eabsearch/search.php?_search_=1&search=a2088&category_id=&exclude=&limit= (http://grandis.nu:81/eabsearch/search.php?_search_=1&search=a2088&category_id=&exclude=&limit=)

The server seems down at the moment but it should be back on soon. I see install disks here. I think they moved the server or something recently.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 14, 2017, 03:29:08 PM
"The Zone" has had a problem for... some time now. Thanks anyway Paul, did find it useful...

Hand searching, I did find this - link is live, works for me.

ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Disk/2088-2286%20install%20disk(1988).adf (http://ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Disk/2088-2286%20install%20disk(1988).adf)

Other files that might be of interest, if not directly useful...

http://ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Disk/Driver/_a2088t.dms

http://ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Disk/Driver/_janus-setup.dms

http://ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Archive/Driver/-sidecar.lha

http://ftp://ftp:amiga@grandis.nu/Commodore_Amiga/App/Archive/Driver/JANUS-DOCUMENTS.lha

EDIT: Some of Pauls links work now, try them.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 14, 2017, 03:50:33 PM
User Athlas on Amigapage.it seems he had problems with Janus.Library.

He found some infos online that Janus.Library has serious problems on systems with more than 7,5 Megabyte of RAM installed.

When he disinstall his GVP expansion memory modules the Janus 2088 loads with no problems.

I wonder if this is also another of the common problems that affect Wbrejnia hardware configuration.

http://www.amigapage.it/index.php?op=v&pl=forum&id=F122014-2-35&page=0
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 14, 2017, 04:35:05 PM
Thanks Everyone, going to look into all above.

BUT I have an UPDATE.

My RLL Drive might be one reason.  MIGHT BE THE REASON !!
Can't say for sure.

I could not get the RLL drive to AutoBoot in my 486. (so could explain Why things are buggy in Amiga PC)

-> I did LL-Formats (various drive parameters), repartitions, Format, even tried Ranish Boot Loader  (10-12 times, many hours spent)
----> The partitions slice up perfectly.
----> I can install DOS, format /s, read write, Norton, Spirite with 100% success.
----> But it won't Boot as C: drive in 486 (just like in Amiga PC).
----> IT ALL KIND OF POINTS TO THE MBR
-----------> AND more specifically to the Boot Sector

-> What is interesting is depending on Low Level format (Dynamic Parameters), [Works or  Unstable (mbr dissappears) ]
-> Everything has been guesses on parameters (specifically precompensation)
-----> Then I found in that JUMPER Enclyclopedia the parameters for KL330 HD for "Precompesation"  which (SPEFICIALLY) says

Precompensation  ---------------  
For the KL320/330,
precompensation is required on every track from  cylinder 300 to 615.
The optimum amount of precompensation is 12  nonoseconds for both early and late bits.

 -----> http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/h/txt/1911.txt

I have been guessing precompesation=[1, and 128, and Non-Dyanmic Defaults].

Going to try one more LL-Format before I give up.

PLAN B: ($10)

---> I found a $10 (local seller)[FONT="] Seagate ST-11R[/FONT] Controller that has jumpers to Address D8000,
which  means I can make the RLL drive a D: drive and Lo-tech become C: Drive

PLAN C: (>$10)

--->  END THIS MISSERY (with 3-in-1 Solution)
--->  For extra Memory and a Hard Disk on Amiga, AND a BOOTABLE (8088 PC)
--->  Get something like one of these as Raffle recommends above
---> http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/impact2000hc8  (This is the User Manual and Install disks I was playing with)


I have to end this HOLD UP Struggle.  It's not fun anymore, and affecting my health (mental, sleep, etc).

The next part of this build will be fun, and productive.
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Pat the Cat on March 14, 2017, 08:10:41 PM
Fair enough. You've got plenty of other projects to get sorted.

If it's not fun anymore, stop and take a nice big holiday. You've already covered miles and miles of effort.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 16, 2017, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: Pat the Cat;823393
Fair enough. You've got plenty of other projects to get sorted.

If it's not fun anymore, stop and take a nice big holiday. You've already covered miles and miles of effort.
Yes, I took a break away from the Pain In the Ass RLL Drive.

But I did touch the Gotek and the LED Display which was disabled after adding the 2-Line LCD display.

GOTEK Floppy Drive Emulator MOD
(3 Digit / 7 Segment LED Display)

--> Reverse Engineered the TM1651 Driver Chip (Serial Signalling, Data Structure, Commands)
-----> http://aitendo3.sakura.ne.jp/aitendo_data/product_img/ic/LED-driver/TM1651_%20V1.2/TM1651_V1.1_EN.pdf (http://aitendo3.sakura.ne.jp/aitendo_data/product_img/ic/LED-driver/TM1651_%20V1.2/TM1651_V1.1_EN.pdf)
-----> Simple 2 Wire (Data[I/O],ClocK)  driven from Any Aurduino Module

The goal for the final build will be to use the Aurdino MicroController to Display Centrally  the I/O Status  of the Hard Drives (including the Lotek SD Card Access) .

I can also piggy back sense the Gotek Control Buttons, to indicate the SLOT #'s just like originally working.

I now have full control of the display and created this simple animation.

NOTICE THE RLL drive is spinning Backwards :)

YOU TUBE VIDEO [Gotek LED Display Animation] (Hard to show Animation in Screen Shot)
https://youtu.be/qtPzclKb7rU

It wasn't easy since no documentation, started in Chinese, found a sample for similar Battery LCD module, and then once I had one segment working, the rest was just mapping.
 LCD also has 8 Brightness levels I can control.

Piece of cake compared to the RLL drive. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 17, 2017, 03:46:10 AM
The MYSTERY of the RLL Drive will be Solved (or Ended) (Got a Seagate ST11R Rll Drive Controller)

I did park the RLL drive issue, but not for long.

I stumbled upon a Local Seller that sells Retro Computing Parts.

He had a Seagate ST11R HD Controller Card for sale (VIA make an offer on Ebay)
http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/c/S-T/20196.htm

I offered $20 including Shipping and got it.

It's worth a last ditch effort for a try/validation.

Jumper Matchable (615-Cyl,5-heads,26-Sectors) to the DK330 RLL Drive, BUT ISA-Bus Address changeble to D8000, so I'll be able to make my RLL drive a "D:" drive.

If it works, then Lo-tech ISA/IDE-SD will become a "C:" drive and Should boot and Possibly DJMOUNT.

I'll have an answer to the Mystery, or simply give up and move on FOR GOOD!!

....And while I wait for the Card to arrive, this arrived....

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/733/32671186333_7db6b026a1_o.jpg)

"The Future was Here" is a book that suits my Build as I futurize this A2000.

Looks like a interesting nostalgic read.  Perfect for a break..

(I also got a replacement Left Shift KEY-CAP, which has been annoying not to have!)



 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 18, 2017, 06:43:35 AM
YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW (EVERYDAY)  Arrgggh! Explained

Look at this picture.  DO YOU SEE ANYTHING WRONG?

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3895/32660546364_b6be77210f.jpg)

Put aside the mess and the danger that something metallic could fall into the Amiga Motherboard (and fry my circuits).

I've been extra careful after one screw fell in.

Sure the monitor could fall over, but it's leaning backwards against the wall.

But there is something else that has been driving me crazy.

I've had discs go corrupt over the last while.
At first I thought it was the OLD 5.25" floppies.  JUST OLD.

But recently after the Gotek MOD work I lost a couple of 3.5" disks.

HERE IS THE REASON WHY!!!!!

Look at the picture again.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3863/32660546184_c7356bbca8.jpg)

The lamp has a transformer in it.  At the base.
Emitting electromagnetic waves!!!

It's been frying (Degaussing) my disks  when I used the Lamp too Close to them.

Even fried the last two disks INSIDE the DRIVE when I put that lamp on top.
I figure it out when I made a new disk and put it back under the lamp.  Poof!! Erased again.

You learn something new everyday. :(.  
We'll at least I know, and I have a handy DISK ERASER if I need one :)

Thank God I never put it on top of my Hard to Replace GAME collection Floppy Box.
(Which reminds me,  I better make ADF copies of my Important Stuff)


Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 19, 2017, 03:17:45 PM
Computer Museum needs Amigans:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72143
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 20, 2017, 11:22:14 PM
Quote from: Raffaele;823604
Computer Museum needs Amigans:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72143

Thanks Raffaele,

I did contact them since they are old computer collectors for their museum displays.
This is about the old Convergent, NGEN box I found in my dad's garage.
I am added to their database for next commitee review.
They may be interested.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 21, 2017, 04:01:55 AM
INTERESTING Article from 1988 INFOWORLD (Useful to me for new Segate Hard Drive Controller)

So according to Tracking the new Seagate RLL controller will arrive in tomorrow.  It should allow me to end the mystery of the BB DOS boot.

But when I was digging around on the Convergent NGEN computer, I was looking through old Newspaper clippings and came across this.

With Proper Reference since Copyright INFOWORLD

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false (https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2837/33522774326_c86b15e2c4_b.jpg)

What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: Raffaele on March 21, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823660
INTERESTING Article from 1988 INFOWORLD (Useful to me for new Segate Hard Drive Controller)

So according to Tracking the new Seagate RLL controller will arrive in tomorrow.  It should allow me to end the mystery of the BB DOS boot.

But when I was digging around on the Convergent NGEN computer, I was looking through old Newspaper clippings and came across this.

With Proper Reference since Copyright INFOWORLD

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false (https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2837/33522774326_c86b15e2c4_b.jpg)

What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

Yes. Many of first hard disk controllers were pratically coupled in factory with only their bundled device model and only barely seldom you could change with another model or bigger storage models.

It was known fact in the early age of home computers in the end of the Eighties. Companies and power users did buy expensive SCSI drives, and SCSI really gave high chances of replacing hard drives mechanics without many hassle issues...
SOHO enterprises and common users were stuck with RLL and ST506 interfaces that were considered as "cheap" or at least reasonably cheap in those times, and presented many issues when you had need of changing drive mechanics. Incoming of IDE standard was a bless for PC users and opened the route to install hard disks in any computer.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: psxphill on March 21, 2017, 01:02:08 PM
Quote from: wbrejnia;823660
What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

Yeah you definitely should low level format when you change the controller. Depending on the two controllers involved, the new controller may refuse to read/write the disk or it might appear to work but give you random read/write errors in the future.

If there is a bad block list printed on the drive then you should enter it if you are asked.

The jury is out whether Steve Gibson is crazy or a snake oil salesman.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 21, 2017, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: psxphill;823674
Yeah you definitely should low level format when you change the controller. Depending on the two controllers involved, the new controller may refuse to read/write the disk or it might appear to work but give you random read/write errors in the future.

If there is a bad block list printed on the drive then you should enter it if you are asked.

The jury is out whether Steve Gibson is crazy or a snake oil salesman.

We'll the Seagate ST-11R Controller Card just arrived.  Look in great shape for the pennies I paid.  

I still I will test in the 486 Machine.  Don't want to blow the Amiga up since to me it's priceless at this point. (I'm actually putting a power monitor on the Amiga to watch how much I push the Power supply)
- Will do LL format.  After setting the Jumpers to match the RLL (Cylinders,head,sectors)
- With luck new Controller Type (Seagate) may fix my MBR/Bootblock problem (mystery).

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2845/32761527983_0a8d9af6ea.jpg)

Steve Gibson treated me very nice.  He provided a free copy of Spinrite V3 and it worked nicely to prove my RLL drive is defect free (Nicely stressed), just like the outside of the unit shows.
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 21, 2017, 10:33:47 PM
Seagate ST-11R (ROCKS!!)  Hard to believe but 486 Boots from RLL Drive

I started off to a rocky start.  The 486 would crash in POST BIOS.

I switched jumps, and still crash.

I thought the card was bad.
I almost gave up.  Felt quite depressed for wasting more money on another DEAD END.


But then I remember when I tried to Flash the ISA/IDE Adapter, I played with BIO setting to turn off SHADOW ram at D800.  So I did that and one other BIOS change that I can't remember.

The next boot attempt BIOS picked up the Seagate Controller at the BIOS POST.

I then hooked up the RLL HardDrive with Ribbon Cables.

Next boot the Seagate BIOS picked he drive up right away, and went AUTOMATICALLY into a SETUP menu (BIOS driven).

--> The setup menu is way nicer than the Western Digital (Color Menus, Intuitive Setup)

The Seagate card was designed for Segate HD models so a Limited  List of drive were available (Just like Raffaele said above).  A quick lookup on the Jumper WEbsite found a drive matching my ALoak DL300. (I picked it).

--> The drive LL-formatted perfectly
--> The drive FDISK nicely
--> The drive "Format c: /s" perfectly

Next reboot, Floppy out.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3776/33577825455_dc363e5c0d.jpg)

YES that is a C: drive Boot off RLL-DRIVE!!!  (Amazing!! I couldn't get that to happen with WesternDigital Controller)

What is interesting about the Segate controller is the way it treats the RLL drive.  I hear sounds I haven't heard before (Drive heads tweeking, whistling).

Amazing.

NEXT is to POP this setup into the AMIGA. (And keep fingers DOUBLE CROSSED for a bit more GOOD LUCK)

---> Will the Bridgeboard PC boot C: Drive?
---> Will the Amiga (FORMAT JH0: /  JANUS) pick up the 2nd Paritition (Adisk)?

Have to go out but will be back later to find out.
 
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 22, 2017, 12:49:02 AM
Best ($10) I spent so far!!!

Here is what the Seagate Onboard BIOS Low Level Formatting Tool looks like.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2872/33450280641_c992d245dd_c.jpg)


And here is the best part.  

Too EARLY to Cheer Full Success...
....since this is only on the 486, not Amiga Yet.

But I threw in the Lotech ISA/IDE Adapater and Everything works together with a C: Drive DOS Boot.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2897/32765099513_334c5f14ea_c.jpg)

I needed to confirm everything in 486, to prevent any Head scratching if it doesn't on AMIGA/BB PC.

-> It won't be a total disappointment if it doesn't work (C: Bootable from SD Card/Lotech).
-> I'd be happy just that have a C: Drive off (RLL-drive) and then Transfer DOS to D: (sdcard)

I CAN CLEARLY HEAR THE (Seagate Controller Working Hard at Cylinder 0 to get MBR).  
---> Seems it may be something mechanical or multiple-retries needed to get it MBR/Bootblock.  
---> WD controller gave up too easy. (
I kept mentioning talking about how the LED would PULSE like it was trying)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 22, 2017, 04:50:58 AM
THE BIG TEST (Seagate HD Controller Card in the AMIGA)

It would take me less than 10 minutes to safely move over the Segate Controller with RLL drive and Lotech into Amiga for a test.

But I am

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2899/32767770843_eef436fffc_q.jpg)

Yes, I am Afraid to find out that things won't work like in the 486 PC since there are many differences.

--> Maybe nothing will work with Bridgeboard BIOS.
--> Maybe C: drive won't Boot
--> Maybe I'll still need to do the CTRL-ALT-DEL hack workaround.
--> Maybe there will be ISA Address conflicts
--> Maybe PC side will work, but Amiga will still have issues with Janus
--> Some other unforeseen problem like (MBR starts acting up again, etc)

OR MAYBE, just MAYBE everything will work perfectly.

I don't want to know right now if it's bad news.
I rather enjoy this ($10) moment of success rather then get into another big rat hole of debugging.

So I'll work on my Fish Tank Aurdino Doser project which I got code finished over weekend for Pump Calibration Algorithm.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3710/33198845680_0a4cb1d8b1_z.jpg)

All that's left is to code in the dosing scheduler logic.

Then I'll pop in the Lo-Tech and Seagate-RLL drive for Big Test that could end my parts and pieces hunt, so I can really start the put-together Build of the A2000.

Then start the Software installs.

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 22, 2017, 05:17:19 AM
Even chickens need to sleep without tossing and turning (wondering).

I did it with my EYES CLOSED.

Felt like the Longest boot ever!


(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3794/32768159133_1879ebcd99_z.jpg)

Pure Seagate Controller Card POWER!! (no Floppy disk in A: drive)  

No Lotech or CTRL-ALT-DEL needed and it will probably work too. :)
Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 22, 2017, 06:23:32 AM
I just HAD to KNOW (yes... DJmount / Format JH0: WORKED!!)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3840/33426292772_1635662a8e.jpg)

So I ran DJMOUNT and it worked EXACTLY like the Bridgeboard Install Instructions.

->  I was able to run "Format DRIVE JH0: name "amigarll"
-> After Completion the ICON for JH0: appeared and I have an Amiga Hard Drive off the PC Rll-Drive

BUT
the Lotech didn't pick up like it did in the 486.
----> I'll need to play around with Jumpers (ISA Addressing) or whatever.

But I've basically proven that my Amiga and Bridgeboard is 100% good.

-> Amiga Bridgeboard with Bootable RLL C: Drive
-> RLL Drive with AMIGA Paritition (ADISK)
-> DJMOUNt and Format to create a Amiga Drive off PC Drive
-> Lo-tech ISA/IDE adapter will work on Bridgeboard (proven to work, in some special Config-Combo setup)


Now I need to put the bit and pieces together for a complete working build.

....Onward :)

Title: Re: **Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)
Post by: wbrejnia on March 22, 2017, 08:05:06 AM
I DID IT !!  

(All things working  [
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