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Author Topic: The need for "Modern PCs"  (Read 5950 times)

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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« on: November 20, 2012, 04:53:14 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;715798
In your daily life, what things do you do, that you could do with the aid of a so called "modern PC", that you do with something else?

A legacy system, NG system, your cell phone etc.

I'm curious.

Because there seems to be some kind hubris being lloated around by others that they have a set of specifications for what your devices must have, be or do to have utility in your real life.

This is important to me, because since the '70s I've been devoted to the idea of personal computing, but just like musical styles have broadened and mixed so too have the ways or electronic devices can enrich our live.

So personal computers seem less...relevant (arrgghh!).

Heck, I know people that live without computers. And with a smartphone, that's a real option.

Give me some thoughtful feedback, not the flames I've been getting lately.

Jim


Well, lately my smartphone has become the repository for checking email, writing some google docs, lots of web surfing, calendar management, music playing, hulu/netflix/youtube watching, some casual gaming.

My modern PC I use mainly for coding, and any projects/websurfing/emailing that is better facilitated with a keyboard.
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 05:35:46 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715884
What's sad about it is that in the glory days of personal computing, instead of computers dropping capability to fit with lowest-common-denominator use patterns, as tablets do, you had people who would ordinarily have been "light users" branching out into new areas that they might otherwise never have tried, because hey, the capability was there. Now everybody just settles for mediocre...

In general, that feature probably limited access.  Most people just want computer functionality without any computer-y issues (think your hatred of configuring linux) these days.  Press button - get Facebook, or Charlie the Unicorn.  But that sort of mediocre approach has opened the floodgates to people who would have never touched a computing device otherwise.  The tablet is truly the "computer for the masses".
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 08:43:20 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715888
That's a load of crap. People didn't "just want" those things, because they didn't even exist until a few years ago. They wanted to avoid technical nitty-gritty, sure, but the Mac let them do that - but now Apple's the one leading the push towards the new "bovine content consumption" paradigm. Back in the day, even ordinary users were exploring the creative potential of the PC - then somewhere along the way some people started telling them that what they really wanted was to do nothing but consume content on company-controlled services and use company-controlled communications channels to conduct exchanges that the existing uncontrolled channels were entirely sufficient for. And, for some reason, they decided that those people must know what they were talking about and they'd better start accustoming themselves to this new model and give up everything they were learning how to do...

Time was that the personal computer was supposed be the thing that freed the minds of the ordinary people - now it's becoming the thing that cages them in.


Your optimism for the creative potential of humanity is refreshing, but I think a little too overarching.  Look at television, or radio, or video games, or even books.  Mass market and profit = lowest common denominator.  The people who want to create still can, and joe six-pack can twitter about his huge BM.  There's room in there for everyone in their hierarchy.
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 10:10:23 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715908
See, frankly, I just don't accept this classist bullcrap. A lot of people in the tech world like to think of themselves as some sort of higher order apart from the Masses, as if the ability to think and work in a creative capacity is a difference in kind between themselves and the "Joe Sixpack" cattle. It's not. It's a fundamental human capacity, and the only reason it's languishing in a lot of the masses is because it hasn't been given any encouragement to grow, thanks to an increasingly consumption-oriented economy that only needs creators as a source for content (and they replace creative individuals with formula processes at every opportunity, because formula processes are much more predictable and they've been steadily training the masses not to know the difference, anyway.)

The idea that "Joe Sixpack" is fundamentally lacking in a capacity that the creative elite possess, and therefore he can't make use of complex creative facilities, shouldn't be encouraged to try or given the tools to do so because his simple peasant brain wouldn't understand them, and wouldn't be happy doing any of that anyway, is false. Completely false. It is a lie; it started as a lie that creative people told themselves to make themselves feel special, and it's a lie that's been increasingly propagated by companies and organizations that like to use it as a rationalization for stifling the nascent creative urges of the masses to make them into good little consumers.

Is it harder and riskier to make good movies than crap movies? Well, train moviegoers to not expect good movies, and that's not a problem anymore! Want to cripple a computer into a glorified content-consumption device? Just tell people that that's all they ever wanted anyway, over and over, until they start believing it! And all the tech journalists and all the futurist writers will gladly help you spread this lie, because it feeds their ego.

But you know what? Repetition can make a lie seem true; it can never make it true. People still have the capability to be more than passive consumers, even if it's never been given any nurture; they still have creative urges, even if they're deeply sublimated. All the mantra repetition of "ordinary users don't want or need this" in the world will not change that. The question isn't whether these people can be more than the lowest common denominator; the question is whether anybody will come along and help them wake up from dead-eyed consumer slumber.


I think people would say the market decides these things.  Take the classist line out, and what you get is that sales of tablets and smartphones are spiking while desktops are flatlining or declining somewhat.  Its not just opinion its fact.

What it sounds like you are saying is that there is some sort of conspiracy to dumb down the creative people with modern software and tablets.  I disagree.  I think it comes down to simple marketing and focus groups and what is actually selling on the ground.  If I didn't like graphically intense games and didn't code for a living, a smartphone is all I really need for modern internet usage.  This doesn't discount or render invalid my ability to enjoy amigas or the linux command line.  Heck, with my droid I can even write apps using this:

http://androidandme.com/2012/03/applications/mit-launches-android-app-inventor-to-all-with-a-google-account/

Its awesome, and visual, and accessible.  In fact, I believe the bar for accessibility to be creative is far lower than it ever has been.  I love hand coding python with vim and running my progs from the command line, but I also love having IDEs that makes sharing and collaboration so easy, as well as on the fly compiling and error checking.

My Galaxy S3 is damn near a tricorder!  Portables are freaking awesome!

Last edit, and it sucks but is true:  Some people are honestly stupid.  Some people are smart.  It is what it is.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 10:14:21 PM by TheBilgeRat »
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 11:03:27 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715921
Saying that "the market decides this stuff" is like saying that plate tectonics decides when and where there will be earthquakes. It's true, in a strictly observational sense, but it says nothing whatsoever about whether or not that's a good thing. And anyway, it's overlooking the fact that market forces are not the only factor in what sells. If the industry hadn't spent the last couple years in a mad push for tablets, and spent billions on marketing to tell people that tablets are the New Hotness that they really really need to have, tablets wouldn't be selling like they are. It's not just some passive reaction; the industry wants this to happen. Tablets are cheap to make but sell for a bundle, are inherently disposable because they can't be upgraded, and the app-store model brings in a steady post-purchase revenue stream; of course the industry likes that. Of course they're going to push for it.


I think your desire to see this discrepancy colors your analysis of it.  There is no "Them".  If there was no inherent value in a 300 dollar tablet or smartphone, there are a gazillion alternatives, to include NOT BUYING ONE.  You vote with your dollar/yuan/euro.  No one puts a gun to your head to buy.

Quote

The more I observe people, the less I buy that - at least not in the sense that you're meaning here. Plenty of people are mentally lazy and/or have not had their faculties nurtured (*cough*crapeducationsystem*cough*) and of course any given person doesn't necessarily have the same aptitude for X as the next guy might, but I've never met a person who was inherently stupid, and certainly not someone who was inherently geared towards being the kind of brainless Facebook cattle that tablet advocates seem to think average users are. Hell, I know mentally handicapped people (and we're talking serious developmental handicaps, not Rain Man socially-awkward savantism) who show more spark and creative inclination than you're ascribing to the healthy, un-handicapped common man.

"Some people are just naturally better than other people" is a nice thing for people to tell themselves when they want to feel special. It's a philosophy that lets technologists and futurists feel Very Benevolent when they push for platforms that will let the poor witless Normals have a taste of what it's like to be Enlightened without taxing their poor little brains. But it's something that I just don't see borne out in real life.


The sense I am meaning is exactly what I said.  Some people are stupid and slow and retarded and unable of abstract thought.  Some people aren't.  Not everyone is Picasso or even have the capacity to be if only we could reach them somehow, and to suggest otherwise is sweet, but untrue.  It isn't philosophy, its straight up biology, medicine, and genetics.  Spend some time in the Army and your youthful naivete concerning the goodness of all will be permanently fixed.  I have met plenty of people who were inherently stupid.  At some stage of your life you will as well.  I have met people who are mental giants.  Equality is a cute philosophy.  The mistake is equating being in the middle or tail end of the bell curve with societal worth.  I am not suggesting that, but that your argument is actually the one bordering on elitist by suggesting that the tablet apps are for morons, where I see the explosion of those devices as well thought out design and not some illuminati conspiracy.
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 11:26:13 PM »
Quote from: JimS;715926
I have to agree... back in the 80's and for some of us, the 70's, owning a home computer was an end in itself. The ability to do something useful was unimportant or an excuse to justify it to the significant other. ;-)

As for the original question.... if you discount things that have microprocessors in them... cars,microwaves,tvs... well just about anything electronic now... the only things I use outside of the desktop are an MP3 player and Kobo ebook. But I still need the desktop to manage those. My TV is also in my desktop pc, so i guess that makes my VCR on it as well.


Oh, man!  I totally forgot about my kindle.  That thing is awesome.
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 03:39:57 AM »
Quote from: minator;716146
The implication of this thread is you can't do creative or even useful work on a Tablet or phone.

This is complete nonsense.

Not only can you use a phone for art I know people who have published books and got prestigious awards for exclusively using an iPhone.

Ever seen the audio apps available on the iPad?  There's some seriously impressive synths available Wavegenerator, iMS20, Animoog and more.

There's even a big multi-channel recording app - a DAW on a iPad.
Granted the first iPads or Android tablets weren't very powerful but the latest ones are now at G5 performance level.  Next year they'll be even faster.

Games are also getting good.  They surprisingly close to console level even on current phones.

The need for any type of desktop is rapidly dying out.  Computers have long since becomes fast enough for the vast majority of needs.

There will always be a need for faster machines but they're uses are limited. I have a high end laptop because I do high megapixel imaging, video and record music.  That said maxing out the machine is actually quite difficult, most of these apps are bound by the speed of the disc drive (even the fast SSD it has isn't fast enough).

Note I say it's a laptop - I haven't used a desktop as a main machine at home for 10 years now.

PC sales have recently fallen.  Tablets and phones are selling like hot cakes and are already hitting the PC market, unlike the PC market they are growing rapidly.   A new release of Windows is always a big earner for PC vendors, not this time though, Windows 8 doesn't seem to have much of an impact.


There is a bit of irony about discussing this on an Amiga site though.  Amiga's were never about raw CPU speed, they were about the clever use of hardware to do the heavy lifting - exactly what phones and tablets do.

In any case OS4 or MorphOS have never run on high-end hardware. If speed was important everyone would have switched to AROS years ago.


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