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Author Topic: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?  (Read 17700 times)

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Offline AntiriadTopic starter

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Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« on: January 21, 2005, 12:49:43 AM »
I was just wondering why the AmigaOS 4.0 won't be released for x86 Platforms which make more than %90 of PCs around the world? Why do you think linux is gaining on the Windows OS?

I do not think OS 4.0 will survive for too long!!!!

Just my thoughts....
 

Offline rayt

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2005, 01:13:35 AM »
you may use the search function of the forums to search for 10000 similar threads where a lot of reasons for this are explained.. I don't want to discuss this here or start a flamewar, but 1st you can't compare OS4 with linux, and 2nd hyperion make os4 and they know their capabilities very well and they will have their reasons for not going x86.. this has been discussed to death now both on amiga.org and on other sites.. if you want amiga on x86, install winuae and os3.9, this will give you a very fast amigaOS plus more compatibility than os4 plus you can use every windoze app out there..
 

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2005, 01:33:15 AM »
Quote

rayt wrote:
you may use the search function of the forums to search for 10000 similar threads where a lot of reasons for this are explained.. I don't want to discuss this here or start a flamewar, but 1st you can't compare OS4 with linux, and 2nd hyperion make os4 and they know their capabilities very well and they will have their reasons for not going x86.. this has been discussed to death now both on amiga.org and on other sites.. if you want amiga on x86, install winuae and os3.9, this will give you a very fast amigaOS plus more compatibility than os4 plus you can use every windoze app out there..


Rogue/Entilzha said recently that the only other CPU that they would even consider porting to would be the Athlon64 line of processors.  I think that would be highly unlikely though.

OS4 on AMD64 would be cool though, as i've read that these CPU's have three modes.

1. 32bit legacy mode, where it pretends to be an AthlonXP.
2. 64bit mode with 32bit legacy support. This is the mode Windows XP and Linux distro's operate under, to provide support for legacy 32bit programs on a 64bit OS.
3. 64bit only mode. When the CPU is in this mode, there is no support whatsoever for running 32bit code.

It is the 3rd mode that I think OS4 would be fantastic on, as it has no need to support 32bit apps like linux and windows will have to.  It could use the CPU to it's full potential and really be something to be proud of. :-)

Sadly it's never gonna happen, but it's nice to dream eh? :-(
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2005, 02:42:43 AM »
Cause then there would be absolutely no exsisting software, and it would take much longer time to both port software and the OS to the x86 platform.

You should take a look at Aros, since it is pretty much a os 3.x clone and is even open source aswell.
 

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2005, 03:47:35 AM »
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Cause then there would be absolutely no exsisting software, and it would take much longer time to both port software and the OS to the x86 platform.

You should take a look at Aros, since it is pretty much a os 3.x clone and is even open source aswell.


And it's just got TCP/IP too! :-D

Once UAE integration is completed, there will be no rational explanation for buying outdated, overpriced, underpowered non-standard hardware anymore. :-P
 

Offline BigBenAussie

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2005, 05:03:02 AM »
God!! Everyone who mentions this gets beaten to death. I wish people would lighten up because ts a legitimate question. If it wasn't people wouldn't be bringing it up all the time....especially as a possibly cheaper solution. The last time a beating occurred Hyperion members said they considered it, but could not do it because of the immense amount of chipsets that would need to be supported. I agree. The next point you could make is pick one x86 motherboard and just support that as a formal Amiga motherboard, then somebody throws somes vegetables at you and tells you, like how would you go pick one? How could you make the deal and on what criteria? I would have thought with the plethora of x86 hardware vendors it would have been easier than inventing a brand new PPC solution, but for some reason I am obviously wrong. Fine....What do I know? Then say you do get an established x86 mobo vendor, the next problem is that they change chipsets so often to keep up with the competition. So there would be a moving target for OS4. So having technology on the A1 that is way behind the times is actually allowing OS4 to get finished sooner as they have all the time in the Amigaworld to get it done...without the technology on the boards changing. Go figure....
What people have to realise, is that if someone gives you a decent answer then its something that can be passed on before the thread goes 4 or 5 pages and too many people get pissed off.
I really think there should be a page on A.org or AW that has an OS4 FAQ or commonly asked questions section. Because the next question asked is going to be, "why no port to Mac". Which I think would be a very short term solution at best. Actually, I'd be happy to write one because I've practically asked every apparently stupid question there is.
(Scurries away ducking the tomatoes thrown)

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2005, 06:09:10 AM »
I do think it would make sense to choose certain chipsets, gfx and such to support if they go x86, and then maybe add some support for newer ones as time progresses..

I do think that it would still take a great amount of extra work and time to get it done, especially at getting 3th party software ported.
 

Offline lempkee

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 07:34:02 AM »
Antiriad:

yeah what a wise comment there :-) , just look how it went for BEos / Warp and all thoose other OS's that just had to go x86 and get wiped off the face of the earth.

sure they have a certain user amount still, sure they have alot of problems getting support for all their devices so naturally they just run XP or whatever to fullfill all their needs.


by saying it simple: there is no way to support x86 unless u support ALL the motherboards and geuss what...wont ever  happen and if people thought the A1 bugs was annoying then you should check the x86 pc arena.
Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline nicomen

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2005, 07:49:48 AM »
> Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?

Because...

(or, read all the previous discussions from years and years back, just my thoughts..)
UtilityBase.com - Your Guide To Amiga Development
#amigadev @ irc.utilitybase.com
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2005, 08:01:27 AM »
Quote
Tomas:  ...it would take much longer time to both port software and the OS to the x86 platform.

How so?  The CPU is only a small part of the equasion.

OS4 does have a HAL, you know.  Did Hyperion spend years working on a HAL for OS4 just so it could run on Mia chipsets?

Quote
Tomas:  I do think it would make sense to choose certain chipsets, gfx and such to support if they go x86, and then maybe add some support for newer ones as time progresses.

Exactly.  But, people don't want to believe this is possible because their prejudice runs too deep.  People still think the will is more important than the way.

Choose one chipset to support at a time.  Make a partnership with a single PC manufacturer, as almost ANY one of them will have more manufacturing exerience than a company like Mia.  Put on some decent firmware to rid us of the 20-year old BIOS that must be programmed in assembler.

Flexibility of "open" PC hardware without worrying about Windows.  Problem solved.

Quote
Lempkee:  there is no way to support x86 unless u support ALL the motherboards

I am so sick of hearing that.  Just about every "alternative" OS in the world runs on x86 -- and others.  A good OS architecture doesn't care what hardware you use!

Quote
Lempkee:  if people thought the A1 bugs was annoying then you should check the x86 pc arena.

Yeah, but it's easier to find and resolve bugs since the hardware is more thouroughly tested and documentation is easier to obtain.

Have you even written software for x86 chipsets before?
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2005, 02:13:00 PM »
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Cause then there would be absolutely no exsisting software, and it would take much longer time to both port software and the OS to the x86 platform.

You should take a look at Aros, since it is pretty much a os 3.x clone and is even open source aswell.


Everyone seems to dodge the issue here -- OS4 just wouldn't be as interesting on PC hardware.  Face it -- most of what AmigaOS can do has been done on those systems, and this leads to "BeOS syndrome;" Nth to market, some compelling features, but not enough to differentiate...

PowerPC gives you the small advantages that help make it an Amiga.  Lower power, the endianness is right, code is marginally more portable, you can point to the d*mn thing and say that, even if it's overpriced, "This is an Amiga."  There's a lot of value in that if you can manage to make money off it.  Then, when you do take advantages of the differences in hardware (Altivec, extra registers, reduced latencies in places that go over my head ;)), you have something concrete to point to that can't immediately be reproduced by the competition (well, except for Apple, but these days, they probably already had it anyway)... and you can hope for any other miracles that just might put you light-years ahead of the competition again, as much of a snowball's-chance that may be.

Hey, Amithlon and OS XL should exist (barring legal issues, of course).  The same thing for the PPC OS should exist, if people want it -- this isn't the Apple scene, there should, in theory, be a way to get this stuff done without throwing lawsuits everywhere.  Heck, I'll say it: even MorphOS should exist, in whatever incarnations it took (all that, and it comes down to #$%#ing MUI?) -- though the initial EULA concerns and so forth were to be an expected cost-of-doing-business with that.  OS5 on x86 should exist, if anyone's still banging away on ISA abstraction -- that'd be light-years ahead, though it seems it'll take that long for Fleecy to get the rest of the design docs beamed into his head from Cygnus A.  :-D

...But OS4?  On x86?  Hey, it's called Windows 98, and I hear it runs Amiga emulators pretty snappily, too.  Where's the fun in that?  Demos, hardware banging?  There's already V2...  

On the other hand, if you pick a different pony, there's at least that slim, slim chance you'll find an advantage of the sort that can't be co-opted in the competition's next point release... and if you're throwing money down the hole chasing something ridiculous (A new AmigaOS?  Are you out of your mind?), might as well do it in a way where there's possibly, maybe, just hopefully the slightest possibility you can win.

If you didn't read Slashdot today, there is a snowball's chance.  (Hmm, now what scene could be more familiar with coding for bizarre hybrid architectures?)
 

Offline toRus

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2005, 02:29:35 PM »
> Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?


Mac mini automatically renders any argument invalid.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2005, 02:45:29 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:
Antiriad:

yeah what a wise comment there :-) , just look how it went for BEos / Warp and all thoose other OS's that just had to go x86 and get wiped off the face of the earth.

sure they have a certain user amount still, sure they have alot of problems getting support for all their devices so naturally they just run XP or whatever to fullfill all their needs.


by saying it simple: there is no way to support x86 unless u support ALL the motherboards and geuss what...wont ever  happen and if people thought the A1 bugs was annoying then you should check the x86 pc arena.


Lempkee... I appreciate you are not a technical person, but please stop spreading FUD... How come AROS can support all these chipsets?

And bugs in PC chipset get sorted out within months, the high volumes means pretty much all problems are gone by the second revision of the Chipset... in the PPC market the first revision is all that the manufactures can afford...

Offline leirbag28

Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2005, 03:53:36 PM »

You know!  I was just thinking about this just yesterday!

and I never thought I would say this but:

Amiga OS4 would have been better off (especially for us AMigans) on a x86 platform.........not for the purpose of beating Windows.............but simply so more of us Amigans can afford to have OS4 because most of us already have PC's!!!!!!!

Then OS4 would have sold 10 times more.........BUT you want to know the REAL problem????

The problem REALLY is...........that the AmigaONE is NOT a REAL Amiga!.....if they were gonna go with the new route to creat a new machine..It should have been Amiga like (new custom chips and all) otherwise it would have beem better off ported to x86.............thats too late now.

Whats a REAL Amiga?  If it REQUIRES a PCI card to work......it aint an Amiga!
If it REQUIRES a GFX card..it aint an Amiga

What is a REAL Amiga then?  its a super high Powered Game Console disguised in a Computer case...thats the simplest way to describe it........and why so?  because a Console says this:

* No Drivers Required

* No gfx card Required (although it can have an option for it)

* No Sound Card Required (can have an option for it)

* No Joystick adaptors Required

* Can boot right from CDrom drive
has at least 2 joyports as standard.

* Everything is Autoconfig

* Doesnt need any upgrades just to get certain programs working (but can have an option for it)

and more logical stuff like this.......3rd party stuuf being as a requirement causes Crashes and OS incompatibility.in the end making the OS look like crap!  the same that happens to Windows and Macs and now even Amigas!

Yes....I used the Word Console because it gets the message across......and After All...the ORIGINAL A1000 was a CONSOLE! inside a Computer case..and look how great it was!!!

What are the only Computers in the World that don't crash?

Playstation 2
Playstation 1
Game Cube
N64
SNES
Genesis
XBOX

Get the picture?....imagine having a computer this stable?  we did!  it was called the A1000 and A500

tsk tsk tsk.............we cant afford to make such mistakes.........definitely not!




CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Why not AmigaOS4 for x86 Platforms?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2005, 04:04:49 PM »
Quote

What are the only Computers in the World that don't crash?

Playstation 2
Playstation 1
Game Cube
N64
SNES
Genesis
XBOX



I've seen both a Playstation 1 and an XBOX crash :-)