Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga community support ideas => Topic started by: x56h34 on October 28, 2005, 08:21:37 PM
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A local Amigan/friend of mine and myself are considering designing and producing new replacement power supplies for Amiga 3000 and 4000 desktop version computers. The idea behind this project is to provide direct replacement products of the same form factor of the original PSUs (according to original Commodore dimensions) however with more power than the originals provide...probably somewhere in the area of 300W, or perhaps more. The internals would actually be an ATX power supply that would be small enough to fit inside the original case dimensions.
The complete, final product would look externally exactly the same as the original Commodore power supplies.
Installation of it would require the user to simply swap the new PSU with the old Commodore one (by removing just a few screws). We would also review options on providing a more superior airflow (especially in the case of A4000 PSU) so that hot air could be sucked in from the inside of the case and blown outside more efficiently, compared to the original Commodore PSUs.
Please keep in mind that the status of this project is extreme work in progress. At this time we are basically gathering information on whether or not there would be enough interest in such a product so that we could justify investing into its development. There is no deadline or schedule of any kind yet. :-)
Any comments, suggestions, price range ideas, etc. would be appreciated. :-) Please post them in this thread for everyone to see and discuss, rather than sending PMs. Thanks.
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I would buy one or two from you if:
It can power the cyberstormppc as I already tried 6 atx models and a few at ones with no or partial succes.
I am now back to powering my amiga with an original psu off the desktop which is the only one which does cold boots short after each other.
It also should have decent wiring to the powerplug(thick enough wiring).
The powerplug itself should be of enough quality(maybe some brass contacts?)
There should be a cable with a connector for a fan(cyberstormppc/cyberstorm040etc.) 12V and 5V
The pricerange I would like to see would be around 50 euro each for a quality psu.
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Interested ONLY if the PSU was swicthable between 110/220 volts 50/60 hz
This is to supply those people whom live in PAL countries with 240v/50hz power grids.... like me in Oz :-)
Will the new PSU generate a tick signal like the original commodore PSU's ??
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Could you also built PSU for an Amiga 1200/500/600? This will be great.
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The PSU would definitely be able to power any A3000/A4000 system with an accelerator card in it (CSPPC or not) + tons of more expansions.
It would most likely be universal, 110V/220V 50/60hz switching PSU, rather than locked to a particular region's voltage.
The A3000 version would have to have some sort of built in tick signal circuit. AFAIK, this would not be needed for the A4000 version.
A500/A600/A1200 PSUs of higher wattage are not planned at this time. I think that http://www.montek.com still sell some AT PSU to Amiga (500/600/1200) conversion cables. These would do the trick with very little effort, other than producing a more expensive custom made PSU altogether.
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I read in a previous thread that A3000s and A4000s don't need a more powerful PSU. Are you sure there are cases where this is necessary?
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I would buy one. I honestly feel that my 3000 with CyberstormPPC
is more responsive with a bigger PSU. Keep us informed and good
luck with the project.
C Snyder
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I would buy a few!!
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I've been installing 300w AT psu boards inside the stock A4000 cases for years,works well but is a tight fit. the best thing is you can't tell it from the original psu,since its the same case ;)
its not easy finding AT psu boards to fit,they all need a few minor mods.
Mike
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Absolutely. I'd happily buy one from you. It would be nice if the cables could also be made as slimline as possible (aka rounded single cable design) given the limited space in the A4000D for example.
I just purchased a Cyberstorm MK1 040/40 with 128MB RAM, a Voodoo3 PCI, Mediator, NIC and sound card so obviously if I am willing to dump a wad of cash on my miggy skimping on a new PS shouldn't be an issue. May even buy a spare.
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I'd also be interested in a new A3000D PSU if the price was right... Good luck with the project.
- Ali
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Count me in!
My A4000D must be like a sauna inside since the case is quite warm on the outside so a PSU with better airflow would be great! then I would dare to fit a CS PPC inside :-P
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Suggestion:
It would be cool to have some power management features included, at least being able to switch it off. I guess this would need getting a signal from somewhere...
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Count me in too.
I would like to suggest something: try and get a nice low-noise fan in there. In my miggy, being that it only has one fan, it would be easy to make it the quitest machine in my room.
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mmm...the A3000D sure is noisy, when turned on it sounds more than my Dual Xeon PC which has 5 fans in it :-o
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@AMIGAZ:
Even with the stock psu, you can can often lower temperatures inside the A4000D quite a bit if you remove unused Zorro backplates and clean up amongst the cabling and expansions.
Or you can ofcourse go even further :), check this (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1172=12) link for an example.
/Patrik
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@Patrik
Have one Zorro slot free and the backplane gone there and alo a floppy drive cover is gone on the front so I guess I´ve done what I can, which i had a rounded 50pin SCSI cable which would improve the airflow inside.
Haven´t found a place yet which sells them.
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I´ve done what I can, which i had a rounded 50pin SCSI cable which would improve the airflow inside.
Haven´t found a place yet which sells them.
They are not that difficult to find, at least not here in Holland. This place sells them for instance: clickety click! (http://shop.freezinghardware.nl/index.asp?Pagina=00003&ItemID=1011)
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I would probably buy 1 or 2, I have 2 A3k's (my wife's and
mine).
I was looking for a PSU for an A3k that I was trying to
repair, Centsable Software was the only place I could find
one and it was used and pricey.
New PSU's at a reasonable price would be a WELCOME addition.
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@Tahoe
Just did the clickety click! hehe
Feels like a 1 meter cable will wriggle in the case like a big snake, hehe
Have to find a shorter one, 60cm would be great.
Seems like SCSI is a dying thing here in Sweden, more and more shops have stopped selling SCSI drives and accesories.
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@x56h34,
I think you have a good idea here and it will serve the Amiga community to have these higher wattage, more efficient, better cooling PSU's available. Given what you wrote on how you plan to accomplish this task, why not try to find as many dead or dying A3000 & A4000 PSU's and take them apart to use the housings again. Then offer a discount to those buyers who send in their old PSU's so you will have a constant suppy of original PSU cases to do your conversions.
If reasonably priced, you can count on me to buy a couple of each, I currently have 3 of each A3000D & A4000D, but doubt that I will be keeping more than two of each in my render farm.
Good Luck
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@AMIGAZ:
Dont remove the floppy drive cover, that will stop air from moving inside most part of the computer. The psu will just suck more or less all the air from the closest and less "resistive" source which will be the floppy drive hole and thus the only area that will be cooled is the area between that hole and the psu fan.
/Patrik
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Haven´t removed it, it was gone when I recieved the computer.
Have another A4000 case here which was the 2nd A4000 I bought which motherboard is now in my tower, the cover is gone on that one too.
I would glady buy a cover plate if someone has one for sale :)
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Are you going to fabricate your own chasis for the device, or will you require a core?
I cant immagine there being much profit for yall making powersupplies. You most likely wont sell thousands of them, and if you did you would have to outsource the pcb production and probably the assembly, as you wouldnt have time to solder all thoes diodes and caps and other things.
Even if you did setup shop in your garage and made your own pcb's, what would you do with all thoes gallons and gallons of waste ferric chloride? You have to pay to dispose of it properly.
If i remember correctly i was able to find a chemical supply company who would sell me ferric chloride in 55 gallon capacity for around $250.00 a barrel. Turns out they use lots of it in wastewater treatment plants, look for their chemical suppliers if you want to obtain the stuff.
Another good place to get the stuff is companies who sell to engravers. It can be bought in 5gal capacities for a vastly inflated price. Occasionally on ebay people will sell kilogram packages of powered material.
Ebay is a great place to find stock copper clad board.
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@AMIGAZ:
Which plate is it - the 5.25" or 3.5" one? Btw, you could probably fabricate something quite good looking by taking a cover plate from a pc and epoxying two plastic pieces with holes in them to each side to be able to screw it there in the holes in the front.
/Patrik
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It's the 3.5 inch plate which covers the lower floppy bay.
Guess it will not be a walk in the park fabricating something which has the grooves to match the ones in the case :-o
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koaftder wrote:
Are you going to fabricate your own chasis for the device, or will you require a core?
New chasis would be made according to the same dimensions of the original.
I cant immagine there being much profit for yall making powersupplies. You most likely wont sell thousands of them, and if you did you would have to outsource the pcb production and probably the assembly, as you wouldnt have time to solder all thoes diodes and caps and other things.
We are both aware of that. Realistically looking at things, we'd probably be looking at around 100 sales, if that. I guess if we could break even in the end, it would be worth doing it.
Even if you did setup shop in your garage and made your own pcb's, what would you do with all thoes gallons and gallons of waste ferric chloride? You have to pay to dispose of it properly.
We would buy internals of existing ATX power supplies that could fit into the A3000D or A4000D chasis, and simply rewire them to work with A3000D and A4000D style power connectors, and neatly secure the PCBs inside the chasis so that the entire job looks clean. We would definitely not make our own internals of the PSUs from scratch. That would be too expensive.
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@AMIGAZ:
What about mounting a floppy there as a blank to cover the hole? Or do you have one of those taller A2000-style diskdrives which doesnt allow a normal sized floppy to fit under it?
Btw, even a blank plastic cover without the grooves should look better than a hole.
/Patrik
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I need one of those slim floppy drives, there's one of those mounted now.
Looks like I need to start "operation cover that hole" for better cooling :-)
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x56h34 wrote:
koaftder wrote:
Are you going to fabricate your own chasis for the device, or will you require a core?
New chasis would be made according to the same dimensions of the original.
I cant immagine there being much profit for yall making powersupplies. You most likely wont sell thousands of them, and if you did you would have to outsource the pcb production and probably the assembly, as you wouldnt have time to solder all thoes diodes and caps and other things.
We are both aware of that. Realistically looking at things, we'd probably be looking at around 100 sales, if that. I guess if we could break even in the end, it would be worth doing it.
Even if you did setup shop in your garage and made your own pcb's, what would you do with all thoes gallons and gallons of waste ferric chloride? You have to pay to dispose of it properly.
We would buy internals of existing ATX power supplies that could fit into the A3000D or A4000D chasis, and simply rewire them to work with A3000D and A4000D style power connectors, and neatly secure the PCBs inside the chasis so that the entire job looks clean. We would definitely not make our own internals of the PSUs from scratch. That would be too expensive.
I can't imagine why you didn't like my idea of using existing "REAL" Amiga PSU housings, unless you think finding the cores would be too much trouble and don't think your buyers would supply you with their existing PSU's for a source of cores.
Other than fitting the ATX PSU's into the Amiga PSU housing, fitting the fan properly and switching the MoBo connectors, what PCB are you talking about?
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amigadave wrote:
I can't imagine why you didn't like my idea of using existing "REAL" Amiga PSU housings, unless you think finding the cores would be too much trouble and don't think your buyers would supply you with their existing PSU's for a source of cores.
The original chasis for both A3000 and A4000 could certainly be improved as far as airflow holes are conserned. We figured that a completely new arrangement would be in order, thus the idea of reusing existing original chasis would not provide for a clean solution, as a lot of custom cutting would be required and we are not equipped for that sort of thing. The design of the new chasis would be done by us and the actual manufacturing would be done by a 3rd party contractor. As soon as we design the chasis and find a fitting ATX PCB, we will look for the best option on 3rd party manufacturing. The idea is to have all the parts ready for a simple assembly by the two of us, testing, and finally sale.
Other than fitting the ATX PSU's into the Amiga PSU housing, fitting the fan properly and switching the MoBo connectors, what PCB are you talking about?
I think that A3000 motherboard requires tick signal to be present, and some sort of a solution would have to be provided in order for our idea to work with A3000D system in mind.
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I'd definitely buy one, the 150W PSU isn't just enough to power the internal expansions/devices in my A4000D.
________
Genetically Modified Food (http://gmfoods.info/)
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sorry amigadave but . . .its so difficult to understand?!?
They purchase the core of ATX PSUs and fits it in a case identical to the 3000 and 4000 one . . . wheres the mistery?
EDIT- x56h34 . . chose an Active PFC one if you can :-)
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@x56h34:
If I dont remember wrong, you can jumper the A3000 motherboard to manage without the PSU TICK signal. That would require an addition to the user-instructions, but it should still be rather straightforward.
/Patrik
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@patrik
indeed, the tick signal generator circuit, isn't really necessary for this project.
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I would purchase at least one A3000D PSU. I have an adaptor cable to install an ATX PSU into an A4000D quite nicely.
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Hi Kindred of Babble-on,
As I also live in Canada I would be very interested in one for my 4000D Keep me informed on your progress.