Pictures of the C-One reconfigurable computer

[blakespot]

Floid wrote:
Whuh-oh, I actually took you seriously.  These are micro-ATX-sized, right?  This old THG review has some options... I guess you don't want to go down to something low-profile, because who knows what form-factor the eventual addon cards will assume?

These are ATX form factor boards.  It is "one slot longer" than a mini-ATX board, so some mini-ATX cases will work.  (Maybe not if you need to add that serial daughterboard that sticks off the side.)  A standard ATX case is the safest bet.  A micro-ATX case would almost certainly not work.

As for form-factor of expansion cards...I think since the expansion slot is a PCI slot, PCI form factor will be observed there.  The slot next to the PCI slot is a C64 cartridge port on the mobo.



blakespot

[keropi]

hey, what is this little red card on the board??? :-?  u can upgrade the cpu? and what about those SID sockets?  :-?  :-?
u can turn this on a c64???

Now I get what this is.... I was confused with Amiga ONE... too expensive for 8bit...

[Floid]

blakespot wrote:

These are ATX form factor boards.  It is "one slot longer" than a mini-ATX board, so some mini-ATX cases will work.  (Maybe not if you need to add that serial daughterboard that sticks off the side.)  A standard ATX case is the safest bet.  A micro-ATX case would almost certainly not work.

Agh, just stumbled back to this thread, and I've been mistaken on form factors this whole time.

So, to quote from this page,
Intel has also specified a "Mini ATX" motherboard size, which is slightly smaller than the full-sized ATX specification. These boards use the same ATX form factor power supplies and cases. The main difference is that full ATX motherboards have a maximum size of 12"x9.6", and Mini ATX boards have maximum dimensions of 11.2"x8.2".

Whereas microATX defines as part of its standard, maximum motherboard dimensions of 9.6"x9.6".  And Mini-ITX manages to be tinier than the even-smaller FlexATX, etc.

Sorry about that!

As for form-factor of expansion cards...I think since the expansion slot is a PCI slot, PCI form factor will be observed there.  The slot next to the PCI slot is a C64 cartridge port on the mobo.

Full-height PCI, though, not the 3" or so "low-profile" standard required by most pizza boxes or slim 1U-type things... which was the point I was trying to make.

(Now, if anyone needs a really *cheap* case, I can say I was just looking for something without a blowhole, and got a KG-201 off these guys for $15 and free shipping...  Perfectly servicable, but not exactly small, either.  Just hit me that the stamp on the side panel could be painted into a fairly accurate Commodore chickenhead, or I would've kept my mouth shut. :-))

[dslcc]

Really cool looking board. I love alternate geeky platforms like this. May just have to order one too. Wonder if it will run Geos?
 :-)

[Waccoon]

Ah! cool! if i didnt just spend a ton of cash on an Amiga and a cell phone, I'd get one..

I hate to rain on the parade, but if you used an emulator, you could just use it on your newly-acquired Amiga and cell phone (or laptop, etc.)

Even strictly for nostalgia or novelty value, this seems pretty expensive and inflexible.  Emulators can do a hell of a lot more than any hardware if they're done well, and there's plenty of "micro" platforms to choose from, so ATX is hardly a reasonable form factor.

[bloodline]

Waccoon wrote:

Ah! cool! if i didnt just spend a ton of cash on an Amiga and a cell phone, I'd get one..

I hate to rain on the parade, but if you used an emulator, you could just use it on your newly-acquired Amiga and cell phone (or laptop, etc.)

Even strictly for nostalgia or novelty value, this seems pretty expensive and inflexible.  Emulators can do a hell of a lot more than any hardware if they're done well, and there's plenty of "micro" platforms to choose from, so ATX is hardly a reasonable form factor.

But people here like hardware solutions...

[Waccoon]

I just think it's odd that the holy grail of computing is turning hardware into software, but Amigans and other retro fans are the complete opposite.  Let me tell you, I'm much, much happier playing my old Sega Genesis / Megadrive games on an emulator where I can pause, slow down and speed up, hack into memory and the CPU registers, and do save states, instead of plugging my Genesis into the TV.

Why invest money in a platform that is no better than the original and will never achieve critical mass?  Novelty is a strange beast.  Not like Amigans would know anything about that, of course.

[fishy_fiz]

@Blakespot

Very cool in my op. Ive been waiting for these machines for quite a while. Just curious though, can you use software that requires supercpu/ide/ram link card, etc.  Metal Dust and Wings are 2 of my most wanted pieces of software for any format. No emulators support the hardware add-ons so only way to use this software (and a few other bits and pieces) is with an upgraded C64, or hopefully C-1.  The ability to have multiple machines in hardware selectable by some sort of boot menu is very cool too  :-)  Also curious as to how many machine cores you can have "installed" at once ??  I assume it depends on the size of the cores ??  Anyway, cool stuff, have fun ya lucky bugger, and thanks in advance if you answer my questions  :-)

[SyrTran]

@Matt_H

Anyone know of any reeeeeeeeally small ATX cases to put this in?

Silverstone has two HTPC cases that fit full ATX boards.  The LaScala LC-02 and LC-04  They are both about 12" deep and around 16" wide.  The LC-04 is about 1/2" taller to accomodate a full-size CD/DVD drive instead of the LC-02's slim optical slot.  They both come in silver or black.

There are several US retail outlets.  I bought my LC-02 for my A1 at NewEgg.

These are about the smallest ATX cases I've found.

[adolescent]

Waccoon wrote:
Why invest money in a platform that is no better than the original and will never achieve critical mass?  Novelty is a strange beast.  Not like Amigans would know anything about that, of course.

Have you seen the specs of the C-One?  It's not just a C64 clone.  It has plenty of new features (DMA, more color modes, etc.) to make C64 programmers happy.  Plus, it can be configured for other cores just by adding a CPU card, and loading the emulation core.

As for why do it in hardware versus just runing an emulator on a PC.  NOTHING BEATS THE REAL THING. You might be able to play your Megadrive games at ~98% accuracy and have features like save states and pause but then again you've been able to do that in hardware since 93 and with 100% accuracy.  (Not to mention the entry price of a suitable computer which is more than the original price of the system and games as is...)

[Tomas]

Waccoon wrote:
I just think it's odd that the holy grail of computing is turning hardware into software, but Amigans and other retro fans are the complete opposite.  Let me tell you, I'm much, much happier playing my old Sega Genesis / Megadrive games on an emulator where I can pause, slow down and speed up, hack into memory and the CPU registers, and do save states, instead of plugging my Genesis into the TV.

None of the software emulators are 100% accurate... I guess such boxes are aimed for those people who care about gfx looking exactly same, sound being the same and so on..

This is the reason for me keeping my old a500, cause a pc just cannot emulate it accurate enough.. Like for example good old scroll games, they just dont run as smooth on a pc as on the real thing with custom chipset.

[patrik]

@Tomas:

Yeah, there are quite a lot of graphical synchronization issues in most emulators, making for example scrolling as you mention embarrasing to watch.


/Patrik

[Waccoon]

NOTHING BEATS THE REAL THING

Well, the real thing is the C64 itself.  There has to be quite a bit of emulation going on in the C-One in those programmable logic chips (emulation in hardware is still emulation).

Besides, turning those portable game joysticks into full-blown C64's is cool.  Buying a huge ATX board and putting it in a full-sized PC case is rather silly to me.

None of the software emulators are 100% accurate.

That's because of the reverse engineering and lack of documentation, not the emulator itself.  I fail to see how building a new hardware platform based on an old platform differs from emulating an old platform in software.

It's worth noting that the Playstation2 actually has an original, hardware-based Playstation core built into it, and it still has compatibility issues with some PSX games.  I still have a lot more fun running my PSX games on ePSXe in 32-bit color, super high resolutions, with antialiasing, and a keyboard, rather than use the crappy, original core built into my PS2.

Like for example good old scroll games, they just dont run as smooth on a pc as on the real thing with custom chipset.

Do you have VSync on?  WinUAE runs perfectly smooth on my computer -- far better than any modern PC game, where they always turn VSync off to get better benchmarks.

It's also arguable that the host OS is causing the timing hickups.  With a real OS in place, instead of Windows, I doubt there would be so many problems.

[Hyperspeed]

Personally I think the real thing is always going to outway the
advantage of manipulating the ROM on a PC so you can put in a few
expletitives or get extras credits!

:-D :-D :-D

Nothing beats the original machines design, it's quietness compared to
a whirring PC, the original controller which has undergone years of
ergonomics testing, the original peripherals (fishing controllers,
marracas, headsets, dancemats, trigger buttons, tactile analogue
thumbsticks, lightguns, visual memory cards), instant loading solid
state ROMs, the native video capability (any standard TV, plasma etc.
out of the box).

Also, when you code for hardware you don't expect it to be one day
emulated. A lot of the best games never did get emulated properly
because they used the hardware to it's absolute limits - that is why
you can emulate a Master System really well but not so easy to do so
with the C64.

AmiMasterGear is miles faster than Magic64/Frodo.

I think future generations will get much better emulation but they'll
still miss out on things like the feel of the original control device.
Personally I'd rather play Goldeneye on N64 with the rumbling gun
shaped 3-prong controller than a keyboard/mouse combo. With Perfect
Dark for example you can use both controller in single-player mode
which makes for a very interesting gaming experience.

It's the difference between going to the arcade and playing
Afterburner in an R360 or going home and putting it on the living room
telly.

Totally different experience. I believe there's a huge market for
miniaturised hardware!

:-)

[Coder]

@blakespot

Is this the final release of the board or still beta?

Coder

[blakespot]

You have not rained on the parade.

Emulators cannot emulate a machine in a clock for clock, perfectly synchronized manner.  Even if all hardware is perfectly emulated in software, there is latency inherent in the host system.  One of the wins of the C-One is a perfect clock-for-clock replica of the target system.  I don't say emulation here as it is not emulation - it "is" the target system, in hardware.

There are still bugs to iron out, but this is where it will end up.  



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