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Offline zylesea

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2014, 09:36:54 PM »
Quote from: dandelion;774020
Hi all,

I'm a long time geek, long time minority operating enthusiast, and recent convert to the idea that maybe working in the IT industry might be a good option. I mean, I love computers, I love to learn, I love to keep learning, and the money's good! That's my logic!

I've been dabbling in Python and R - have written some machine learning script stuff via a data science course for some massive datasets. Sort of excited about this, but really like the idea of developing deep mastery of applications/OS programming.

As an Amiga/minority OS geek - would MorphOS/AmigaOS provide a useful platform to hone my development skills? Is C++ still worth learning? Would I spend most of my time mastering the MorphOS API instead of learning industry-relevant Linux/Windows APIs? Or is the API issue small fry compared to understanding how C++ works?

You see, I'm thinking this might provide a nice additional motivation boost to learn to code. On the other hand, the thought of spending lots of time learning the MUI API might be a bit de-motivating, knowing it won't be directly benefiting my CV (probably even something to keep quiet about!)

Any thoughts, advice greatly appreciated!  

ps. In the very short term, I need to get paid. What's the best way to start earning money with a very slender IT-specific CV? (I have a biochem PhD, teaching qualifications - but my relevant IT stuff is at best 6 months old, and most employers are slightly dubious). Software testing? But even here experience is required! Aghh!


Sorry to say and as much as I like to promote MorphOS - but when your goal is to get paid, start straight away on Windows or Apple. C++ in general is not too hard to understand IMHO, but knowing all the API stuff is quite a bit to learn. Plus, the programming tools and internet resources are much richer for Windows and OS X. Also I must say that the only program by Microsoft I was really hooked by was Visual Studio. The project manager just loads some effort off from you, the editor does what it should do, the debugger works as intended and the help and online resources are massive. In brief: While I have trouble to do a proper MorphOS program using C++ I hadn't those issues with Windows.

For a hello world program of course it doesn't matter what OS to use, but from my experience with C++ so far I rather spent more time with API stuff that with the inner logic of the programs. That said I must emphasize that my C++ skills are rather limited and hemce I am not the best &.

Best C++ book I had: John R. Hubbard: Programming with C++
This book covers plain C++ without assuming to know C before and without a lot of "old" things. Learning C++ that way probably helps when switching to Java or C#.

Offline amigadave

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2014, 10:25:19 PM »
Quote from: dandelion;774029
This sounds like a sensible philosophy...especially for me on career shift/life catch-up!

You should stick to your current job field until you have more knowledge and experience in IT, or programming, so you can afford to pay the bills while you are learning how to become a programmer.  Don't make the mistake of trying to switch careers too early and put yourself in a financial bind that makes everything harder to accomplish.

I understand the education system in the UK is very different (and frankly so much better) than here in the USA, but for the most part, having a job that pays well is still important while you are preparing yourself for a career change.

As for which platform to learn first, choose the one that both has a large number of job opportunities, plus seems the most fun and interesting to you.  The last thing you want to do is switch careers to something that is boring and repetitive that you are going to hate doing for years and years, until you retire (or decide to switch careers again, because you hate it).

Good Luck!
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Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2014, 10:29:00 PM »
No one has suggested 68k assembly.
There are two ways you could approach it: A tutorial language where you learn the structure of programs.
Otherway would be a low level language 68k or C (both are similiar) using the Amiga libraries if you are familiar with them.

Learning Java or C is hard and you won't be doing interesting programs for a while.
Java has different versions which are not compatible. I'm pretty sure C++ has stayed the same.
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Offline Thorham

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2014, 11:00:57 PM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;774051
No one has suggested 68k assembly.
There are only two good reasons for learning 68k assembly language:

1) To write programs on a hobby basis.
2) To learn how computers work at the low level.

Until someone has built up some experience with programming, I'd stay away from any kind of assembly language. Learning how computers work at the low level can, of course, be useful, but not as a beginner.

Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;774051
Otherway would be a low level language 68k or C (both are similiar) using the Amiga libraries if you are familiar with them.
Definitely go for C. When still learning how to program, 68k won't help someone. Assembly language is also just about the worst language to start with.
 

Offline dandelionTopic starter

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2014, 11:08:07 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;774034


You can't be a flexible, modern software engineer without mastering programming, and because that'the bads a process that takes several years, I wouldn't worry about what platform you use to learn it. What you should do is try to master programming using languages that allow you to do everything properly, so that you don't get into bad habits and learn nothing useful.


Some very useful comments here. Thank you.  Out of Java, C# and C++, would you say they all help you learn to code without developing the bad habits you refer to?
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2014, 11:37:08 PM »
Quote from: dandelion;774053
Some very useful comments here. Thank you.  Out of Java, C# and C++, would you say they all help you learn to code without developing the bad habits you refer to?


Java indeed has some "safety nets" connected to it. Personally, I think this is a good thing for newbies. I understand that there is a flip side to this coin (but maybe you shouldn't worry to much about "bad habits" before you have had any chance to develop *any* kind of habits at all?). But Java is today used for introduction to programming at many universities, probably for this reason. And, the documentation and newbie information for Java is kind of massive online. Java is a good newbie language! :)

IMHO: Learn the methodology in objective programming, learn to "think the think". This will benefit you whatever language you later will dive further into. Learn how to crawl, then how to walk the walk, before trying to walk at the catwalk. Java is a good stepping stone for this IMHO.

:)
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Offline dandelionTopic starter

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2014, 11:40:36 PM »
Quote from: amigadave;774050
You should stick to your current job field until you have more knowledge and experience in IT, or programming, so you can afford to pay the bills while you are learning how to become a programmer.  Don't make the mistake of trying to switch careers too early and put yourself in a financial bind that makes everything harder to accomplish.

I understand the education system in the UK is very different (and frankly so much better) than here in the USA, but for the most part, having a job that pays well is still important while you are preparing yourself for a career change.


Good Luck!


I definitely agree with this.  Unfortunately it is a bit too late, as I've already made my move and am now newly unemployed. Still, my old job as a teacher made it near impossible to do ANYTHING outside of teachng for the majority of the year...so that would have made it difficult.

So  now I'm looking for work where a) they pay me and train me (e.g. grad schemes). b) allied  roles like support/networking which  will allow  me to get a job more quickly and study coding in my own time c) payi g for a SQL server course  - expensive but lots of jobs. Then doing that whilst learning coding.
D) Getting a job in data science...but my shaky stats knowledge makes me worry here.

Perhaps the grad scheme is the best bet as I can get paid and learn the it industry and coding skills during ghe day, instead of what I can manage in the evenings.

If anyone can think of other options I haven't considered, I'd be very interested to read them!
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Offline Thorham

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2014, 12:46:36 AM »
Quote from: dandelion;774053
Some very useful comments here. Thank you.  Out of Java, C# and C++, would you say they all help you learn to code without developing the bad habits you refer to?

Those seem fine to me. Just steer clear of things like Pascal, and crusty BASIC interpreters. Also, don't even think about assembly language. While assembly language allows you to do things properly, it's not very practical, and isn't used in many jobs.
 

Offline jj

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2014, 12:58:00 AM »
Basically if you can learn OOP then you are all set. As was mentioned java will give you a good start whilst givng a good safety net. Great exception handling plus generics which give you type saftey at the compiler level.  Java is used prety heavily in industry these days,  I see a lot more work and jobs for java developers than c++ these days.   Though .net and by extension c# is pretty strong too
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Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2014, 10:31:23 AM »
Something I've seen coming along nicely, in addition to the ones mentioned, is Node.JS.  That's server-side JavaScript.  If you want to learn JavaScript and some of the OOP frameworks for the client-side in the web browser, then Node.JS should be a comfortable addition as well.  (Before I get any farther, note that it doesn't run on MorphOS yet.)

I'm roughly following the "MEAN stack" development track for web development for my educational path.  (That's MongoDB, Express.JS, Angular.JS, and Node.JS.)  The only thing wrong with this picture of the future is that there are too many people using SQL databases that are stable as rocks and nearly as slow.  I like MongoDB in conjunction with Node.JS because it stores its documents as JSON files (stands for JavaScript Object Notation, a data-only subset of JavaScript) converted to the BSON binary form.  This makes the database so much faster than SQL.  Another thing to consider about MongoDB is that it uses drivers rather than a custom language (SQL stands for Server Query Language) so you can access the features directly from Node.JS or C++ on a supported OS.  One reason I bring this up is that MongoDB, Inc. offers free training online at the MongoDB University website.
 

Offline dandelionTopic starter

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2014, 10:39:32 AM »
Quote from: SamuraiCrow;774081
Something I've seen coming along nicely, in addition to the ones mentioned, is Node.JS.  That's server-side JavaScript.  If you want to learn JavaScript and some of the OOP frameworks for the client-side in the web browser, then Node.JS should be a comfortable addition as well.  (Before I get any farther, note that it doesn't run on MorphOS yet.)

[/URL].


Interestingly, you're the second person to recommend node.js. The first was a French web entrepreneur who had run a very (financially) successful website for the last 10 years, built largely on LAMP and Javascript, but now being reworked with node.js I believe.

Hadn't heard of the MEAN stack or the MongoDB University training - will check that out. Certainly, SQL seems to still be very much in demand - but it's also nice to be ahead of the curve a bit!
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Offline dandelionTopic starter

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 10:40:32 AM »
Quote from: Thorham;774058
Those seem fine to me. Just steer clear of things like Pascal, and crusty BASIC interpreters. Also, don't even think about assembly language. While assembly language allows you to do things properly, it's not very practical, and isn't used in many jobs.


Great. Thanks Thorham :)
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Offline jj

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 10:58:41 AM »
The whole point of sql though is so that you don't have to learn a specific command set for every database you need to read or write to. Sql was written for non programmers. That is why it's So easy to use.

Apart from the apparent loss of speed using then makes writing applications than can run on a host of databases just changing a config file.
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Offline ElPolloDiabl

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Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 02:58:53 PM »
I haven't found one good Java tutorial. C++ has a lot of good tutorials and they are free.
What should he do to find api and/or library references so he can make programs?

This is a beginners language, it is suppose to be a good pre-cursor to Java:

http://www.alice.org/index.php
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 03:16:39 PM by ElPolloDiabl »
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Offline nicholas

Re: Learning coding (for a new career) on MorphOS
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 28, 2014, 05:28:58 PM »
Quote from: samuraicrow;774081
(sql stands for structured query language)


ftfy. :)
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