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Author Topic: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?  (Read 7161 times)

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Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« on: October 27, 2011, 07:12:57 AM »
I have two very curious questions to ask. Is it seriously impossible, literally, impossible for an Amiga 500 to have high speed internet connection even if the person upgrade the CPU from 7 Mhz to 50 Mhz? Can the person still have high speed internet connection like that of the Amiga 1200 and 4000 series?

Also, if a person have 50 Mhz CPU is it also impossible to be able to watch movies on the Amiga 500? Is it really far fetched to watch movies on Amiga 500? Because a simple mp3 player I have, it is tiny screen and it is not even a computer, or anything, it is a very inferior hardware spec for mp3, allows you to view images and play movies with sound by converting the movie from avi to mv or some format? So why can't Amiga 500 with 50 Mhz be able to play movies when Commodore 64 can play movies on 20 Mhz CPU running WINGS computer?
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 07:44:36 AM »
You can put as fast an accelerator as you can find in an A500, if you like, and you can get Ethernet addons as well. What you're going to run up against is the fact that the system bus is only 3.58MHz. You're not going to get the CPU to access memory any faster than that unless it's RAM directly on the accelerator; that's why accelerator RAM and later CPUs with more cache make such a big difference. And you're not going to access the Ethernet adapter any faster, either, or the video.

That's not to say you can't do those things on the Amiga; video for certain is doable, if limited, and I believe there are at least 10/100 Ethernet cards (though you might need a Zorro II expansion box.) Certainly with a nicer accelerator and onboard RAM you can get MP3 playback. But ultimately you have to remember that the A500 is good at what it was designed for, flexible enough to do a number of things it wasn't designed for pretty well, but still none too far removed from the original 1985 Amiga 1000.
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Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 07:52:25 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;665301
You can put as fast an accelerator as you can find in an A500, if you like, and you can get Ethernet addons as well. What you're going to run up against is the fact that the system bus is only 3.58MHz. You're not going to get the CPU to access memory any faster than that unless it's RAM directly on the accelerator; that's why accelerator RAM and later CPUs with more cache make such a big difference. And you're not going to access the Ethernet adapter any faster, either, or the video.

That's not to say you can't do those things on the Amiga; video for certain is doable, if limited, and I believe there are at least 10/100 Ethernet cards (though you might need a Zorro II expansion box.) Certainly with a nicer accelerator and onboard RAM you can get MP3 playback. But ultimately you have to remember that the A500 is good at what it was designed for, flexible enough to do a number of things it wasn't designed for pretty well, but still none too far removed from the original 1985 Amiga 1000.

Hmmmmmmmm.......maybe it is not worth it after all. I am thinking you need a gvp turbo a500-hd+ expansion with build in Ethernet support, ability to see more than 8 MB of RAM, like say 64 of RAM, have build in to the expansion CPU 50 Mhz CPU, as well as hard drive, hmmmmm....maybe it comes back...we need a better Amiga classic system upgrade all together, something new classic Amiga that meets the demand of the new generation, watching movies, play mp3, browse the internet. Ok, I suppose...I will use my Amiga 500 for what it is good for...games. :)

It is just every time I see the interface of the kicstart 1.3...I ache with it's orange color cursor and blue screen, to browse the internet on workbench 1.3 and watch movies on the workbench screen of it....as well as chat online and play mp3 :D But I will leave that fetish to the dreams.
 

Offline TCMSLP

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 09:07:10 AM »
Its much easier (and cheaper) to do these things on an Amiga 1200.  If you really wanted this experience on an A500 (without spending a fortune) I'd suggest some extra ram and a HD, then use the serial port to run PPP to another PC (Linux/Win?) - this would give you TCP/IP networking without the expense.   Browsing the web still won't be fun, or pretty though.

I use iBrowse on my A1200 (50Mhz 68030, 2 Meg Chip, 16Mb Fast, IDE HD, some weird multiscan resolution) and it's perfectly usable.  Not the quickest and not all sites work due to lack of Java / CSS - but, it's an enjoyable experience.

However, if you like classic style hardware but want more power, check out NatAmi (http://www.natami.net/).  

Finally, welcome to Amiga.org - great to have you onboard!

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Offline Khephren

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 12:30:29 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;665302
Hmmmmmmmm.......maybe it is not worth it after all. I am thinking you need a gvp turbo a500-hd+ expansion with build in Ethernet support, ability to see more than 8 MB of RAM, like say 64 of RAM, have build in to the expansion CPU 50 Mhz CPU, as well as hard drive, hmmmmm....maybe it comes back...we need a better Amiga classic system upgrade all together, something new classic Amiga that meets the demand of the new generation, watching movies, play mp3, browse the internet. Ok, I suppose...I will use my Amiga 500 for what it is good for...games. :)

It is just every time I see the interface of the kicstart 1.3...I ache with it's orange color cursor and blue screen, to browse the internet on workbench 1.3 and watch movies on the workbench screen of it....as well as chat online and play mp3 :D But I will leave that fetish to the dreams.


I'm sure you could watch HAM6 CDXL video on a stock A500, but you'd still need a CD-ROM, or a hard drive to store the  CDXL files.
The CDTV ran CDXL, and that is basically an A500 with a single speed CDROM.

CDXL specs: 160x100, 12fps, mono audio, 4096 colours. (single speed drive)
                  256x128 12fps, mono audio, 4096 colours    (double speed drive).

Really, the big box Amiga's are easier to expand, as is the A1200. But it's certainly possible on the A500.
 

Offline Borut

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 01:05:34 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;665299
I have two very curious questions to ask. Is it seriously impossible, literally, impossible for an Amiga 500 to have high speed internet connection even if the person upgrade the CPU from 7 Mhz to 50 Mhz? Can the person still have high speed internet connection like that of the Amiga 1200 and 4000 series?

Also, if a person have 50 Mhz CPU is it also impossible to be able to watch movies on the Amiga 500? Is it really far fetched to watch movies on Amiga 500? Because a simple mp3 player I have, it is tiny screen and it is not even a computer, or anything, it is a very inferior hardware spec for mp3, allows you to view images and play movies with sound by converting the movie from avi to mv or some format? So why can't Amiga 500 with 50 Mhz be able to play movies when Commodore 64 can play movies on 20 Mhz CPU running WINGS computer?


Not a big problem for movies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgdJAj3jty0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

Offline Cammy

Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2011, 04:23:31 PM »
My friend and I calculated a good size to use for CDXL movies a few years ago. It works best with movies that are around 2.35:1 aspect ratio, like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and other very widescreen films. The CDXL video itself is 320x64, and the CDXL player uses the Copper to double the height of the video to 320x128, so it fits the full width of the screen (without overscan anyway). This format runs on a 2x CD drive like the CD32, we made a couple of video clips in both HAM8 and 256 colours (256 colour CDXL can have a different palette per frame with 24bit depth so can sometimes give nicer and clearer results than the 4,096 colour locked palette of HAM6. Of course on an A500 you could not view a 256 colour CDXL, so the 4,096 colour format is fine. You can fit around 40-45 minutes of CDXL video in this size on a CD, so if you converted a few 1.5hour movies you could fit them on 2 CDs, just like Video CDs which usually came on 2 discs.

Of course if you were reading the files from a hard drive you could make them higher resolution because the Amiga can read the images faster, but then the files end up being much larger too. You could also get some cartoons and convert them to CDXL in 16 or 32 colours, which would keep the frame file size smaller and let you use a larger size.

Unfortunately there's no easy to use software to convert video files to CDXL, and it's a long process involving several steps and programs to extract the frames, sort and delete unneeded frames, calculate framerates and audio playback rate, batch processing the frames, resizing and remapping them, recombining them into an animation then merging the audio... it takes a while, and because of the effort involved it seems no one has really converted and uploaded CDXL movies for people to download and watch.

But using the CDXL format, the A500 is totally capable of playing movies if you have enough storage space to keep the videos.

Also, you can convert MP3s to 8SVX/IFF or WAV format and use a player on the Amiga to play them back. Some players have playlists and tapedeck style controls like WinAmp and other popular players, so it can sort of look and feel like you're listening to a collection of MP3s on your Amiga. The sound quality won't be as good as a modern PC, since the Amiga only has 8bit audio but if the music is resampled right when it's converted it can still sound pretty good on the Amiga.

I think you should look up the upcoming ACA520 accelerator. It will probably have a 28Mhz 68EC020 CPU, 8MB FastRAM, IDE and a CF slot, Clockport and maybe Ethernet too, so it would make an A500 internet capable, or at least expand it enough to run a decent Workbench system and give you the storage options to keep a collection of uncompressed videos and music.
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Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2011, 07:10:19 PM »
Quote from: Cammy;665348
My friend and I calculated a good size to use for CDXL movies a few years ago. It works best with movies that are around 2.35:1 aspect ratio, like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and other very widescreen films. The CDXL video itself is 320x64, and the CDXL player uses the Copper to double the height of the video to 320x128, so it fits the full width of the screen (without overscan anyway). This format runs on a 2x CD drive like the CD32, we made a couple of video clips in both HAM8 and 256 colours (256 colour CDXL can have a different palette per frame with 24bit depth so can sometimes give nicer and clearer results than the 4,096 colour locked palette of HAM6. Of course on an A500 you could not view a 256 colour CDXL, so the 4,096 colour format is fine. You can fit around 40-45 minutes of CDXL video in this size on a CD, so if you converted a few 1.5hour movies you could fit them on 2 CDs, just like Video CDs which usually came on 2 discs.

Of course if you were reading the files from a hard drive you could make them higher resolution because the Amiga can read the images faster, but then the files end up being much larger too. You could also get some cartoons and convert them to CDXL in 16 or 32 colours, which would keep the frame file size smaller and let you use a larger size.

Unfortunately there's no easy to use software to convert video files to CDXL, and it's a long process involving several steps and programs to extract the frames, sort and delete unneeded frames, calculate framerates and audio playback rate, batch processing the frames, resizing and remapping them, recombining them into an animation then merging the audio... it takes a while, and because of the effort involved it seems no one has really converted and uploaded CDXL movies for people to download and watch.

But using the CDXL format, the A500 is totally capable of playing movies if you have enough storage space to keep the videos.

Also, you can convert MP3s to 8SVX/IFF or WAV format and use a player on the Amiga to play them back. Some players have playlists and tapedeck style controls like WinAmp and other popular players, so it can sort of look and feel like you're listening to a collection of MP3s on your Amiga. The sound quality won't be as good as a modern PC, since the Amiga only has 8bit audio but if the music is resampled right when it's converted it can still sound pretty good on the Amiga.

I think you should look up the upcoming ACA520 accelerator. It will probably have a 28Mhz 68EC020 CPU, 8MB FastRAM, IDE and a CF slot, Clockport and maybe Ethernet too, so it would make an A500 internet capable, or at least expand it enough to run a decent Workbench system and give you the storage options to keep a collection of uncompressed videos and music.

Is it possible then I can have links, software and articles tutorial to teach me how to convert movies to CDXL for the Amiga?? I want to port one tv show called Duckman and I am willing to go through all the agitations and trails to do it and time to do it. Please if someone can give me a good article, links, software and a simple tutorial to do this...I want to do WHAT EVER IT TAKES to convert a single movie, or at least a movie for Amiga 500 and if it works..I am willing to convert any move by request from users and take the time to convert it to the classic Amiga. I am serious. I want to watch a movie on my Amiga 500!! And if I can watch movies on my Amiga 500, play MP3 on my Amiga 500 and EVEN browse the internet on my Amiga 500 THAN I AM SET!!! I do not need any other Amiga hardware...I have gotten what I wanted for so long, to turn my Amiga 500 into modern use, browse internet, watch movies, play mp3, read articles on it, do word processing and play games and have the feel I am using a Commodore in steroid, i.e, Amiga.

But concerning that software do not worry about it, I am going to save money and develop a software for Window and hire people to work with me (as long as I know the complete steps to do this) so that the software purpose is to convert any movie to CDXL with a single mouse click. I want to make the software so useful and user friendly, all you have to do is enter the parameters of what you need, click convert and whatever it takes the computer does all the work and convert it into a complete full functioning CDXL for the Amiga then distribute this software for the public (the software will be for free, but donation is appreciate it)...in hopes that people will take this and CONVERT A LOT OF MOVIES to run on Amiga 500/+.

As for CD, I have A500-HD+ with scsi port on the back, I can order an external SCSI dvd player even and have movies on it, not a big deal, I just want to watch movies on my Amiga 500 on my Commodore 1084s monitor :D.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 07:14:23 PM by AmigaClassicRule »
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 08:03:07 PM »
Yes please, links to CDXL encoder for use with CDTV/500/1000/2000 Cammy.

(I haven't finished coding my OCS movie player, nobody can help me with coding interleaved sound reading, will be better than anything before)

You can surf the net with 8mb 16 colour PC 386 with Netscape so just need to keep to sites suitable for that 1994 PC setup.....no streaming flash video/anim etc :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 08:09:56 PM by Digiman »
 

Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 08:10:13 PM »
Plllllleasse Cammy!!! I realllly want to watch a movie on my Amiga 500...please please please...Cammy help us, please!!! I am willing to pay whatever money from my pocket to make the software do it all for us, BUT I NEED YOU Cammy to help us get the necessary steps to be done manually and correctly that works so we can take these steps and convert them into automatic program that does them for us...please Cammy help us!
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 08:18:53 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;665377
Plllllleasse Cammy!!! I realllly want to watch a movie on my Amiga 500...please please please...Cammy help us, please!!! I am willing to pay whatever money from my pocket to make the software do it all for us, BUT I NEED YOU Cammy to help us get the necessary steps to be done manually and correctly that works so we can take these steps and convert them into automatic program that does them for us...please Cammy help us!

To be clear, my movie player is not CDXL compatible, it s uncompressed HAM/EHB frames + sound DMA'd into chipmem from 4200rpm IDE 2.5" HDD. :)
 

Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 08:25:29 PM »
Well it is good that there is another movie player :D I want to get CDXL first working and get my first Duckman show converted and watchable on Amiga 500...when I managed it and got an automotive software that does the conversion in Windows for us...then I want to know about your movie player :) I want to go ahead and download any movie on the internet, convert it and run it on the Amiga 500.....OOOOH THE IMAGE IS SO SWEET!! I have just turned my Amiga 500 into a DVD player...WOOHOO....oh God!!! CAAMMYY!!
 

Offline Khephren

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 08:28:25 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;665380
To be clear, my movie player is not CDXL compatible, it s uncompressed HAM/EHB frames + sound DMA'd into chipmem from 4200rpm IDE 2.5" HDD. :)


How big are those files going to be without compression? one HDD per film? ;P
 

Offline bbond007

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 08:57:34 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;665299
Also, if a person have 50 Mhz CPU is it also impossible to be able to watch movies on the Amiga 500?

If your CPU is a 50MHZ (060 not 030) then you will just have enough power to play watchable MPEG1 movies with RiVA in HAM6 mode.

http://aminet.net/package/gfx/show/RiVA

the demo version only plays greyscale. The registered version will do HAM6 and HAM8(AGA) color as well as RTG.

I just registered it for $15 and now I can watch Big Bang Theory on my Amiga 1200 :)

It is fairly trivial to convert stuff to MPEG1 now that the converters support CUDA.

There is also HAMP which has amazing results on machines with even a basic 68000, however the video files are huge and the conversion process is involved, so I have never seen more than a "clip", let alone a movie or movies :)

this is HAMP running on a minimig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWLtSWXtD8
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:12:36 PM by bbond007 »
 

Offline joekster

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Re: Internet and movie on Amiga 500?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 09:03:37 PM »
I'm sort of able to do this. I have an a500 with an 030 and scsi/compactflash. Using dctv I can "watch" videos... with a zorro-2 adapter, you could use a regular ethernet card. I think all of the cards are 10mbs, so I'm not sure what you consider high-speed. But zorro-2 does have enough bandwidth to utilize 10mbs ethernet...