Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sundown on May 27, 2017, 05:18:40 AM
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http://amigaonthelake.com/
I'm not happy...
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http://amigaonthelake.com/
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"We have made a decision, concerning both A-EON and AmigaKit. The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form.
We are still here and "may" be carrying more stuff soon. However no more X5000 or A1222 or, frankly anything produced from either company. AOTL Donations is going on a temporary hold so we can refocus now that we are not supporting A-EON or AmigaKit."
DAMN! :eek:
Just speculation but, I think this is what happens when Matt abandons AmigaKit and goes gallivanting around the world with the Prince of Amiga! :lol:
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What would the Amiga be without all the drama?
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http://amigaonthelake.com/
@Jeff
I wish Amiga on the Lake all the best finding worthwhile replacement products. It is reminiscent of C= falling out with their computer shop dealers in North America. The difference here is Amigakit have seemingly diverted ALL their stock of X5000s to third party distributors for the past 6 months and Amiga on the Lake are still not happy!! They should think about the supply problems in the UK and be grateful.
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Way to burn bridges. A bit over the top.
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Way to burn bridges. A bit over the top.
Agreed, having re-read the statement it is really unprofessional to be honest!
The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form.
It sounds like Amigakit have put their foot down regarding the next shipment of boards and the fact other markets need to be supplied first and Amiga on the Lake have just thrown there teddies out of the pram!
Amigakit have in my opinion given the US market exclusive first access to this product and this is how they are rewarded!
I can't speak for the behind the scene dealings but it sounds like ingratitude to me.
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I wish i knew the entire story of what happened here. Its a shame...
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Agreed, having re-read the statement it is really unprofessional to be honest!
Maybe but they have an obligation to be honest with their customer base too.
It sounds like Amigakit have put their foot down regarding the next shipment of boards and the fact other markets need to be supplied first and Amiga on the Lake have just thrown there teddies out of the pram!
Amigakit have in my opinion given the US market exclusive first access to this product and this is how they are rewarded!
I can't speak for the behind the scene dealings but it sounds like ingratitude to me.
There are always too sides to a story but we don't know either side apart from Amiga On The Lake ending sale of A-EON and Amigakit products and issuing a statement to that effect.
All I know is that both companies are passionate about the Amiga but something has gone wrong between the two and that's bad the customer base. I hope this could be resolved but AOTL's statement seems pretty final.
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Agreed, having re-read the statement it is really unprofessional to be honest!
It sounds like Amigakit have put their foot down regarding the next shipment of boards and the fact other markets need to be supplied first and Amiga on the Lake have just thrown there teddies out of the pram!
Amigakit have in my opinion given the US market exclusive first access to this product and this is how they are rewarded!
I can't speak for the behind the scene dealings but it sounds like ingratitude to me.
SO...exactly WHAT do YOU think you know about business or being a professional?
I have no idea what happened, but this guy invested money in this, AND in order to sustain a retail business, you have to make a profit, WHICH involves sales AND have product to sell.
Aeon and AmigaKit have always been run like hobbies, rather than professional businesses.
"We have the product..but we're not selling it yet", "We are selling the product, be not in your region yet....unless you call us, then maybe we'll work out a special deal just for you", "OS4.2 is irrelevant...even IF you WERE promised a copy when available (whenever that small miracle occurs)", "Tabors FPU isn't important (even IF the ENTIRE base of your software is incompatible with it"...
Need I go on?
I have had my own issues with the company when they sold me an Amiga to PS2 mouse adapter that simply does not work. AND they still continue to sell this device.
I'd still like to obtain a P5040 based X5000, but honestly, these guys are about as lousy at marketing as the Stanley brothers were.
So you want to throw around the word "professional"?
Better not use it in the Amiga arena, because everyone there ought to be wearing red clown noses, and not as part of a fund raising event.
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Well put Iggy.
Let's pause for a moment and think about who has the most to lose in dropping the line that built your business. The distributor/mfg, or the reseller. :) I mean come on... painting a picture of sour grapes or hissy-fits and lack of gratitude is silly given this dealer's investment and hard work. I am pretty sure they were probably the biggest gift and shot in the arm that Amigakit has ever seen (maybe going on on a limb but ummm.... call another dealer and ask if they have stock for same-day shipment, I dare you... just a hunch, but a strong hunch)
ehh... I will just shut up. I just hate to see mud slung on a small business trying to make something happen in our crazy ass hobby.
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So MorphOS OS and desktops for sale at AOTL next month? *hides*
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as i said over at amigaworld.net:
well since AOTL's mandate was to support new AmigaNG hardware running AmigaOS and the plain fact that the only other manufacturer of new AmigaNG hardware is A-Cube this decision to bad mouth the main hardware supplier of their mandate is very suspicious indeed...the fact that they insinuate that developer donations are also affected make it even more so (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif) (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
this from their 'Mission' page:
Our Mission
Simply:
We are here to grow the AmigaOS4.1 user base!!
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There are still a whole lot of classic uers in the North America to cater to. Get a few Vampires, ACA's and Indivisions for hardware, then add some software, OS disks maybe even be a NA dealer of Final Office when done for example.
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There are still a whole lot of classic uers in the North America to cater to. Get a few Vampires, ACA's and Indivisions for hardware, then add some software, OS disks maybe even be a NA dealer of Final Office when done for example.
+1 and I they had started supplying some classic stuff on their site as well b ut personally being both a classic and NG user I hope they get their supplier/distribution issues ironed out as it's nice to have an Amiga dealer on this side of the pond again.
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Well put Iggy.
Let's pause for a moment and think about who has the most to lose in dropping the line that built your business. The distributor/mfg, or the reseller. :) I mean come on... painting a picture of sour grapes or hissy-fits and lack of gratitude is silly given this dealer's investment and hard work. I am pretty sure they were probably the biggest gift and shot in the arm that Amigakit has ever seen (maybe going on on a limb but ummm.... call another dealer and ask if they have stock for same-day shipment, I dare you... just a hunch, but a strong hunch)
ehh... I will just shut up. I just hate to see mud slung on a small business trying to make something happen in our crazy ass hobby.
My intent was not to "sling mud" at either AOTL or AmigaKit.
Rather, I felt a bit put out by that comment on "unprofessional" behavior.
I had money stashed in a gift certificate @ AOTL (for a future X5000 purchase) that I've just pulled out to buy an SSD for a MorphOS system.
Not a good situation, but I'm sure there is a reason for our only US Amiga vendor to back away from AmigaKit.
And while we may never know what this is, but I'm already affected by this, and its not a good situation.
I WON'T be paying for shipment of an X5000 across the Atlantic, so we'll have to see how AmigaKit compensates for this (because, while they operate a "US" store, they afair, do not have US warehouse facilities).
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"We have made a decision, concerning both A-EON and AmigaKit. The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form.
Bummer, I was planning to buy an X5000 from them too. This makes me think twice. I've never understood the compulsion to do one's laundry on the internet.
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Bummer, I was planning to buy an X5000 from them too. This makes me think twice. I've never understood the compulsion to do one's laundry on the internet.
@djomre
Yeah, the market is too small for this sort of petulance. Some respect for Trevor and Matthew wouldn't go a miss! Personally I'm glad that Amigakit have been able to start selling complete systems directly to UK customers and if that decision to divert stock away from third party suppliers was a factor in the 'throwing the teddies out of the pram' antics at Amiga on the Lake, then so be it. The market was always bigger in Europe anyway for Amigas.
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@djomre
...The market was always bigger in Europe anyway for Amigas.
now now that's for another thread eh:swords::D
keep in mind that many of us have spent quite a bit extra on shipping over the years for our Amiga gear etc. once Software Hut and here in Canada (Comspec) went under so it's in our interest to have a reputable dealer on this side of the pond
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From AOTL 24 Nov 2016: "I am very proud to tell you all that Amiga On The Lake has so far sold more AmigaOneX5000s than all other resellers in the world combined, so far (to the best of our understanding). This is do in part to the fact that AmigaKit does not have them on there site as of yet. Rest assured that things will change when they do."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71642
Well, I remember this statement form back then (and dug it up) thinking what's "Rest assured that things will change when they do" supposed to mean. I thought the statement was out of place right off the bat as A: the information was not essential to the reader in an introduction, B: seemed to give off a vague threat, and C: why was I, the reader, supposed to be rest assured.
Then this comes outta nowhere (Hmmmm - nowhere?): Do you think AmigaOne X5000 will be available to buy on Amigakit website this summer?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72395
Follett, who is support for AmigaKit, even thought the question was outta place on the forum:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=826125&postcount=8
Mike thought this question had ulterior motives too:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=826151&postcount=21
Then came "Now What?"
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72395
Now, I'm no Barney Fife but, it would seem that AOTL may have had an agreement with AmigaKit to not sell Amiga5000's until, maybe, a certain future date. And if AmigaKit did sell before any agreed future date then......... the AmigaKit/AOTL plug got pulled!
I just can't help think that there are some folks in the Amiga background whom are just not who they portend to be... FPF?
I love a good conspiracy though..... :rolleyes:
And now http://www.amigaworld.net/ is down.....
Weird-o-rama!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHP_7frW4AAAyb2.jpg:small)
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@Iggy (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=6738)
Unprofessional is EXACTLY the term I'd use for the statement from Amiga on the Lake. In particular the sentance:
... we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form.
These sentiments wreaks of personal anger and bitterness rather than some cool level headed words communicating a sound business decision. I'm not saying running an Amiga retail business is easy but don't make this personal!! A simple statement about the "ceasing of all distribution of A-EON and Amigakit products due to an unforeseen conflict of interests" would have been more than sufficient.
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@djomre
Yeah, the market is too small for this sort of petulance. Some respect for Trevor and Matthew wouldn't go a miss! Personally I'm glad that Amigakit have been able to start selling complete systems directly to UK customers and if that decision to divert stock away from third party suppliers was a factor in the 'throwing the teddies out of the pram' antics at Amiga on the Lake, then so be it. The market was always bigger in Europe anyway for Amigas.
Your logic is just another reason to consider NOT following through with my decision to support the X5000.
That is, IF I thought that this was the reason behind this, and I DON'T know.
So, unlike you, I'm not ready to throw anyone under the bus (that is, unless I ever happen to be at a bus stop with B. Hermans, ;-) just kidding there).
Respect for Matt and Trevor?
Sure, why not?
But I like Aaron, and assume he didn't come to this decision lightly.
SO, at this point, I'm not taking sides in the matter.
I did just place an order with AOTL though.
And I would have preferred to order my X5000 from a vendor in the US.
BTW - I got this as part of a return message related to my order "Thanks Jim. We WILL be doing other stuff to help AmigaOS4 and Morph and AROS trust me".
SO...does THAT sound disrespectful?
It sounds like a commitment to the community to me.
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coincidence that amigaworld.net is down now ;):cool:
...the amiga users soap opera show continues in 5, 4, 3, 2........
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They were doing a Server upgrade from an end of life version of Ubuntu.
coincidence that amigaworld.net is down now ;):cool:
...the amiga users soap opera show continues in 5, 4, 3, 2........
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@Iggy (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=6738)
Unprofessional is EXACTLY the term I'd use for the statement from Amiga on the Lake. In particular the sentance:
These sentiments wreaks of personal anger and bitterness rather than some cool level headed words communicating a sound business decision. I'm not saying running an Amiga retail business is easy but don't make this personal!! A simple statement about the "ceasing of all distribution of A-EON and Amigakit products due to an unforeseen conflict of interests" would have been more than sufficient.
Obviously we have a STRONG difference of opinion here.
From my point of view, having been in the electronic retailing business, you don't make a decision like this lightly.
"... we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form"
or
"ceasing of all distribution of A-EON and Amigakit products due to an unforeseen conflict of interests"
Who cares? Obviously there is a reason behind this, AND as this IS a business, NOT personal, I'd have to assume its a good one.
As such, AOTL still retains me as a customer.
Unlike AmigaKit, which has misquoted me on the forum about a complaint before, Aaron has never abused my trust.
They were doing a Server upgrade from an end of life version of Ubuntu.
Right in the middle of my editing of a comment.
Hmm, and Amiga.org and AmigaWorld are run by whom again? :hammer:
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I didn't even heard of "Amiga on the Lake". Till now...
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My intent was not to "sling mud" at either AOTL or AmigaKit.
Rather, I felt a bit put out by that comment on "unprofessional" behavior.
I had money stashed in a gift certificate @ AOTL (for a future X5000 purchase) that I've just pulled out to buy an SSD for a MorphOS system.
Not a good situation, but I'm sure there is a reason for our only US Amiga vendor to back away from AmigaKit.
And while we may never know what this is, but I'm already affected by this, and its not a good situation.
I WON'T be paying for shipment of an X5000 across the Atlantic, so we'll have to see how AmigaKit compensates for this (because, while they operate a "US" store, they afair, do not have US warehouse facilities).
Sorry Iggy I was simply saying that I agreed with your post.. my comments below were directed at those who we stating in some way that AOTL was in the wrong or being unprofessional.
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Unlike AmigaKit, which has misquoted me on the forum about a complaint before, Aaron has never abused my trust.
i have to agree 110%. aaron has been incredible at customer service, and i seriously doubt that this it it a coincidence that this happens once amigakit offers the X5000 system to US, GB, and EU customers. just look at the pricing, and then ask why AOTL might not be able to match it. aaron is a stand-up guy. he wouldn't pull any drama, and i have absolutely no doubt that he got tired of his treatment by amigakit, since they are the only source of A-EON stock to other dealers. i guess that means if i ever want to make another A-EON purchase, it will have to be via amigastore.eu instead.
i'm really sorry for aaron things turned out this way. :(
-- eliyahu
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i have to agree 110%. aaron has been incredible at customer service, and i seriously doubt that this it it a coincidence that this happens once amigakit offers the X5000 system to US, GB, and EU customers. just look at the pricing, and then ask why AOTL might not be able to match it. aaron is a stand-up guy. he wouldn't pull any drama, and i have absolutely no doubt that he got tired of his treatment by amigakit, since they are the only source of A-EON stock to other dealers. i guess that means if i ever want to make another A-EON purchase, it will have to be via amigastore.eu instead.
i'm really sorry for aaron things turned out this way. :(
-- eliyahu
Thanks...this entire situation has left me with a headache (that's not a metaphor, I've got a really bad stress headache).
On "professional", I do NOT know what has happened, BUT you don't undercut your dealers (if you want to retain them), SO...IF that is what has happened....
Well..you all figure it out. I'm sitting here on a Sunday without a hangover STILL feeling like crap, with phrases like "its just a hobby", "the name is cursed", and "I'm relying on a very small group of companies, with an indefinite timetable to deliver the goods" going round my head.
Oh, and eliyahu?
"i'm really sorry for aaron things turned out this way. :("
Again thanks, because it expresses my sentiments as well.
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@Iggy (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=6738)
Unprofessional is EXACTLY the term I'd use for the statement from Amiga on the Lake. In particular the sentance:
These sentiments wreaks of personal anger and bitterness rather than some cool level headed words communicating a sound business decision. I'm not saying running an Amiga retail business is easy but don't make this personal!! A simple statement about the "ceasing of all distribution of A-EON and Amigakit products due to an unforeseen conflict of interests" would have been more than sufficient.
I had the same thought but on this part:
The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies.
What experience? What happened? Why do you not want to reiterate the grounds of your decision? Do you just want us to agree with you because '8 months of experience'? This kind of self-righteous yet 'mysterious' and not wanting to state facts -attitude makes me very wary.
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I had the same thought but on this part:
What experience? What happened? Why do you not want to reiterate the grounds of your decision? Do you just want us to agree with you because '8 months of experience'? This kind of self-righteous yet 'mysterious' and not wanting to state facts -attitude makes me very wary.
Interesting logic, but for business, a bit flawed.
I don't know about the Netherlands, but in the US and Great Britain we don't always have the latitude to air our grievances.
It isn't "mysterious" or an "attitude", its reticence to detail exactly what during the '8 months of experience' put you off.
Personally, I'd call that consideration.
But, I'm sure you'll all harp on this to the point that some of it will come out.
In the meanwhile, we in the US just have to buy from Matt directly (which HAS had its complications), and I for one will still buy what I can from AOTL.
As I've said before, its our problem, not the Europeans.
But hey, after Britex, does a British company not playing well on the world stage surprise any of you?
I'm only hoping OUR government doesn't become that stupid.
After all, it IS a global market.
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gonna be tough to keep your mission statement with only ACube products since last I checked finding a new Sam460 or AOne 500 is pretty hard to come by.
They can do what Amigakit did and be a reseller for the Vampire/ Apollo Team though unless it could emulate PPC on the FPGA their mission statement is still gonna be hard to keep
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I never understood all the self-destructive infighting in the Amiga community, going back decades it seems. You'd think with such tiny market share overall, everyone would kind of be on the same team?
Pipe dream I guess.
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gonna be tough to keep your mission statement with only ACube products since last I checked finding a new Sam460 or AOne 500 is pretty hard to come by.
They can do what Amigakit did and be a reseller for the Vampire/ Apollo Team though unless it could emulate PPC on the FPGA their mission statement is still gonna be hard to keep
Actually, it really sucks not having a US distributor for AmigaKit, Aeon or their product, since product returns now mean transatlantic shipping for US customers.
That being said, Aaron hasn't completely dropped support for X5000 related hardware, I ordered a cpu cooler/fan combo from him yesterday.
And he still has memory and drives in stock.
Its hardware he has to rely on Matt and company for that he's not carrying.
Which tells me that at some point Leaman Computing dropped the ball.
I never understood all the self-destructive infighting in the Amiga community, going back decades it seems. You'd think with such tiny market share overall, everyone would kind of be on the same team?
Pipe dream I guess.
Hmm, same team...
I use legacy hardware and more than one NG OS.
Sled dogs fighting in a whirling ball have more team spirit, because when they're done fighting they're off and running. :hammer:
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All I have to say is for the past year I have been looking for the ACA500 plus for my Amiga 500. Now Amigakit USA had it listed by one method (internet search) but when you went there and tried to find it, it acts like it was never made, yet on Internet search it took me right to Amigakit, finally I gave up and went to Individual Computers where I bought one. Now A-eon is another story, why should I buy a computer for that price when Amiga Forever probably runs faster and better on a gaming computer. Ok so it isn't a real computer, but Amiga Forever has more backing then Aeon, and you don't need a special computer to run stuff on. Put quite plainly I can't afford to buy a 3000 buck computer that runs slower then a modern PC and I am an avid Amiga fan, and even worked for Commodore selling Amiga's because I believed in them, but at least they were affordable.
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All I have to say is for the past year I have been looking for the ACA500 plus for my Amiga 500. Now Amigakit USA had it listed by one method (internet search) but when you went there and tried to find it, it acts like it was never made, yet on Internet search it took me right to Amigakit, finally I gave up and went to Individual Computers where I bought one. Now A-eon is another story, why should I buy a computer for that price when Amiga Forever probably runs faster and better on a gaming computer. Ok so it isn't a real computer, but Amiga Forever has more backing then Aeon, and you don't need a special computer to run stuff on. Put quite plainly I can't afford to buy a 3000 buck computer that runs slower then a modern PC and I am an avid Amiga fan, and even worked for Commodore selling Amiga's because I believed in them, but at least they were affordable.
fair points, but i should point out that, no, despite belief to the contrary, a modern gaming PC with UAE does not run AOS4 faster than a X5000. oh, and it's not even $2,000, let alone $3,000. the A1222 should be much more reasonable, though.
that said -- the vampire is awfully hard to beat these days. if i had a spare amiga, that'd be my choice.
-- eliyahu
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fair points, but i should point out that, no, despite belief to the contrary, a modern gaming PC with UAE does not run AOS4 faster than a X5000. oh, and it's not even $2,000, let alone $3,000. the A1222 should be much more reasonable, though.
that said -- the vampire is awfully hard to beat these days. if i had a spare amiga, that'd be my choice.
-- eliyahu
Well said, if you can get one. The only system I'd have that would work would be an A2000, and I've seen that done with an adapter card to the cpu slot for some reason.
And I don't think the X5000 is that high priced either.
OS4.1 under emulation is more of a "try it and see if you like it" solution.
And once MorphOS 3.10 is released, well...I can't run that via emulation.
So regardless of this thread, I'm still going to eventually have to go to Matt with my hat in my hand.
Besides, I really want to run the NG OS' with a Radeon HD 7770 or an R9 270X, not emulating a legacy RTG card.
And both OS4 and MorphOS should eventually support the same audio and video cards, so a tri-boot system with Linux will be possible.
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Well said, if you can get one. The only system I'd have that would work would be an A2000, and I've seen that done with an adapter card to the cpu slot for some reason.
And I don't think the X5000 is that high priced either.
OS4.1 under emulation is more of a "try it and see if you like it" solution.
And once MorphOS 3.10 is released, well...I can't run that via emulation.
So regardless of this thread, I'm still going to eventually have to go to Matt with my hat in my hand.
Besides, I really want to run the NG OS' with a Radeon HD 7770 or an R9 270X, not emulating a legacy RTG card.
And both OS4 and MorphOS should eventually support the same audio and video cards, so a tri-boot system with Linux will be possible.
I think I get about 30 - 60% of the X5000 in terms of raw CPU performance running AmigaOS 4.1 under emulation on my Ryzen 1800X desktop. Maybe similar to the A1222?
As you mention there are other limitations. No hardware compositing means scrolling, animations etc. are jerky and slow, making web browsing painful and watching videos impossible. Also, only ~500 MB memory can be made available, even when running the emulation on a 64-bit OS. It's by no means the "full" AmigaOS 4 experience. More like a "demo/trial version".
However since I already own a ~$1000, 8-core desktop system with 16 GB of RAM and 8 GB VRAM, I would never spend twice that for half the clockspeed, a quarter of the cores and a 4 years old GPU. The A1222 however looks very interesting to me as a secondary/hobby system, while still using my main PC for more compute heavy tasks and gaming.
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I wish I wasn't going to be gone here in another couple hours and not having Internet with this happening. Let me say this though before I leave. I think I'm one of the most avid and longest continuous Amiga owner and supporters here in the US. I'm definitely in the top 10 being an owner since release of the 1000. I've been both for and against many of the shifts in the scene, I've put countless amounts of my personal time and money into the spread of Amiga awareness. I've helped out those wanting hardware and repairs done often well below what it costs me to do them for just because I love the platform and the community we all are. Matthew and Trevor are both great people and are doing this for all of us, not to screw anyone over. Running a store costs money, trust me I just closed mine after not getting much in terms of sales through it. The problem I see is the price of this machine. The x5000 is way to high, and unfortunately the cost to produce them in the low numbers they are is also high as a result. If a lower entry model isn't introduced this will fail and continue to fail as new high end machines come out instead of more entry models with realistic prices. Look at the smaller machines no longer made, they sold out, look at classic Amiga, the 500 sold millions over the 1000 because it was priced lower, the 1200 sold well above the numbers of the 4000 and so on. You need to get the lower end model out so you can generate sales to fund the way forward! Get real Matt and Trevor. I want an NG Amiga and even I can't afford to spend that kind of money on a machine like that. It's not realistic to make a machine that the OS and software can't even take advantage of.
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@Acill
hey Paul I think you missed the point of this thread.
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I'm with Acill on the whole X5000 price thing but what we are talking about here is a new USA vendor of NG Amiga stuff who has pretty much thrown in the towel in less than a year due to some falling out with A-EON and Amigakit. Having had the pleasure of meeting both Trevor and Matthew at Amiwest I know both to be genuine stand up guys who love the Amiga with a passion. So I find it hard to believe they would be the aggressor in whatever happened here.
I think AOTL may just have been premature since the stock of 'complete' X5000s doesn't seem to be that high based on the original cases being out of stock and the black keyboards in short supply. Perhaps they should have waited until the A1222 came out and the boards available in large numbers before beginning such a venture.
I do wish AOTL continued success though and hope selling other Amiga-related stuff keeps them afloat.
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I think I get about 30 - 60% of the X5000 in terms of raw CPU performance running AmigaOS 4.1 under emulation on my Ryzen 1800X desktop. Maybe similar to the A1222?
As you mention there are other limitations. No hardware compositing means scrolling, animations etc. are jerky and slow, making web browsing painful and watching videos impossible. Also, only ~500 MB memory can be made available, even when running the emulation on a 64-bit OS. It's by no means the "full" AmigaOS 4 experience. More like a "demo/trial version".
However since I already own a ~$1000, 8-core desktop system with 16 GB of RAM and 8 GB VRAM, I would never spend twice that for half the clockspeed, a quarter of the cores and a 4 years old GPU. The A1222 however looks very interesting to me as a secondary/hobby system, while still using my main PC for more compute heavy tasks and gaming.
The only problem with that compromise is you get similar performance to your emulated system, but it is more affordable and you get video support.
I'm just not interested in using a cpu with a crippled fpu.
I'm with Acill on the whole X5000 price thing but what we are talking about here is a new USA vendor of NG Amiga stuff who has pretty much thrown in the towel in less than a year due to some falling out with A-EON and Amigakit. Having had the pleasure of meeting both Trevor and Matthew at Amiwest I know both to be genuine stand up guys who love the Amiga with a passion. So I find it hard to believe they would be the aggressor in whatever happened here.
I think AOTL may just have been premature since the stock of 'complete' X5000s doesn't seem to be that high based on the original cases being out of stock and the black keyboards in short supply. Perhaps they should have waited until the A1222 came out and the boards available in large numbers before beginning such a venture.
I do wish AOTL continued success though and hope selling other Amiga-related stuff keeps them afloat.
Who knows if the limited supply of X5000s was the only (or even the primary) reason?
It hasn't been stated, but whether Trevor or Matt are stand up guys or not, the supply issues, delays, pricing and marketing schemes are completely bizarre.
As I've said before, its our Spinal Tap moment, or "(Our) appeal has become more selective". :hammer:
-
@thread
there's an article on the situation over at amitopia quoting various 'sources' on the situation. as always, without named sources, take this with a grain of salt, but it would certainly line up with the few available facts....
http://amitopia.com/amigaone-x5000-turbulence-in-the-amigaland/
-- eliyahu
-
@thread
"take this with a grain of salt"
-- eliyahu
Indeed.
-
Maybe I've missed the point, but I don't think AOTL is pointing the finger fairly here as well. Sure a new dealer gave up, but my point t of pricing remains true. There's no room to make any money on these new systems. That must change or more of this will continue. That's a fact that can't be overlooked.
-
There's no room to make any money on these new systems.
Hence Tabor, I pushed for a low cost board.
-
Hence Tabor, I pushed for a low cost board.
The approximately 400 pound board with less performance than a Raspberry Pi 3, and a crippled fpu?
I pushed for a low cost board too, but I'm NOT buying that piece of crap.
Not when emulation at similar performance levels cost less than $70.
That's kind of pointless.
I am still interested in a P5040 based X5000, BUT when it becomes available I may have to have it shipped from Great Britain.
That seriously sucks, and for that matter, it increases the chances I'll receive a damaged system (so, I'm more likely to buy the motherboard alone).
-
The real question is :
Do US customers cease to buy the X5000 computers from AOTL to buy them directly from AmigaKit?
If yes then it is a problem, if not why care?
Kamelito
-
The real question is :
Do US customers cease to buy the X5000 computers from AOTL to buy them directly from AmigaKit?
If yes then it is a problem, if not why care?
Kamelito
It WAS a consideration.
Further, I would NOT recommend transatlantic shipment for a complete system (too expensive, and too likely to incur damage)
So, for us, the best bet is motherboard only purchases (and for those that don't want to build a system, another negative).
That being said, while I like Aaron (and will continue to buy what I can from him), I decided not to shoot myself in the foot.
Outside of the T2080 laptop project, this is probably my last PPC system.
You all can have Tabor, I already have G4 performance level hardware.
And I'm hoping by 2020 or so to be using an X64 based system.
-
The approximately 400 pound board with less performance than a Raspberry Pi 3, and a crippled fpu?
I pushed for a low cost board too, but I'm NOT buying that piece of crap.
Not when emulation at similar performance levels cost less than $70.
That's kind of pointless.
I am still interested in a P5040 based X5000, BUT when it becomes available I may have to have it shipped from Great Britain.
That seriously sucks, and for that matter, it increases the chances I'll receive a damaged system (so, I'm more likely to buy the motherboard alone).
_____________________
Iggy, while I share your concern about ordering from overseas & would prefer to be able to order from AOTL, when I ordered my AmigaOne X1000 in Dec. of 2012, it arrived in less than 4 days from Cardiff & in good condititon, so no complaints about AmigaKit's service.
-
_____________________
Iggy, while I share your concern about ordering from overseas & would prefer to be able to order from AOTL, when I ordered my AmigaOne X1000 in Dec. of 2012, it arrived in less than 4 days from Cardiff & in good condititon, so no complaints about AmigaKit's service.
I'm actually not that concerned about AmigaKit in this equation, its the handling by shippers.
I ship overseas regularly, and its brutal on packages.
-
So many distinctions and distractions..
Has This thread has been about profit (theirs or ours) or who do you love?
At first AOTL and it%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;s need to show it%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;s anger when that was threatened???
And as the threads continued to show that love in
%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8220;As the Amiga World Turned%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8221;.
First, for your consideration..
Is and has AmigaKit been a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8220;retail%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8221; store selling various products? Yes.
Has AmigaKit been based in England? Yes.
Has it been a problem for Amigans in the U.S.? Yes.
Has it done a perfect job. No. Not bad but not perfect.
Over all, Matthew was considered a saving grace for most Amigans after ALL the amiga stores closed.
At that time we loved Matthew as the owner of AmigaKit.
But now, AmigaKit is perceived as a distributor (and other things), by selling to other retail stores.
By luck and intent, Matthew is an owner of a store, AmigaKit. He also became a distributor as well as a partner in a manufacturing company A-Eon. Why? He was one of the few willing to risk his money!
But, as these companies all are different legal entities.
With the advent of the Internet, we are offered items to buy from the manufactures, distributors and the retail stores, even individuals.
So%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8230;
AmigaKit gets to sell to us.
A-Eon gets to choose to have AmigaKit distribute.
If you don%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;t like this close arrangement, just buy out Matthew (or Trevor)
One of the reasons we love AOTL was that Aaron (good cust service) but his prices weren%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;t great.
I know I wanted to support him as a new dealer so I bought a video card and other stuff. Another reason, the extra cost of freight might be lower (Iggy/Jim likes the fact he could drive to the store and save freight and return broken things without the hassle of return freight etc.) That%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;s why he loves AOTL, at this time) Might not be the case if AOTL was in CA.
But Consider freight, which we don%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8217;t love, it cost money to get things (people too) somewhere..trucks, trains, planes, fuel, drivers etc. Still have to pay.. even if it says free shipping
Next thing to consider is this business AOTL stating %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8220;in any way, shape or form%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8221; WOW!
I remember the days when the discounters lobbied to change the keystone retail prices here in CA.
The retailers hated it undercutting their prices. Then the law changed, then it was the discounters hating other dealers undercutting their profit. And so forth%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8230;
A-Eon (Trevor) paid what was needed to make brand new custom boards,
AmigaKit (Matthew) has to manage his costs to be able to sell those boards.
AOTL (Aaron) has to manage his business.
Trevor, just Thanks. I love my X5000!!!
-
So many distinctions and distractions..
Has This thread has been about profit (theirs or ours) or who do you love?
At first AOTL and its need to show it;s anger when that was threatened?
And as the threads continued to show that love in
;As the Amiga World Turned
First, for your consideration..
Is and has AmigaKit been a store selling various products? Yes.
Has AmigaKit been based in Wales (okay)? Yes.
Has it been a problem for Amigans in the U.S.? Yes.
Has it done a perfect job. No. Not bad but not perfect.
Over all, Matthew was considered a saving grace for most Amigans after ALL the amiga stores closed.
At that time we loved Matthew as the owner of AmigaKit.
But now, AmigaKit is perceived as a distributor (and other things), by selling to other retail stores.
By luck and intent, Matthew is an owner of a store, AmigaKit. He also became a distributor as well as a partner in a manufacturing company A-Eon. Why? He was one of the few willing to risk his money!
But, as these companies all are different legal entities.
With the advent of the Internet, we are offered items to buy from the manufactures, distributors and the retail stores, even individuals.
So
AmigaKit gets to sell to us.
A-Eon gets to choose to have AmigaKit distribute.
If you dont like this close arrangement, just buy out Matthew (or Trevor)
One of the reasons we love AOTL was that Aaron (good cust service) but his prices werent great.
I know I wanted to support him as a new dealer so I bought a video card and other stuff. Another reason, the extra cost of freight might be lower (Iggy/Jim likes the fact he could drive to the store and save freight and return broken things without the hassle of return freight etc.) Thats why he loves AOTL, at this time) Might not be the case if AOTL was in CA.
But Consider freight, which we dont love, it cost money to get things (people too) somewhere..trucks, trains, planes, fuel, drivers etc. Still have to pay.. even if it says free shipping
Next thing to consider is this business AOTL stating ;in any way, shape or form; WOW!
I remember the days when the discounters lobbied to change the keystone retail prices here in CA.
The retailers hated it undercutting their prices. Then the law changed, then it was the discounters hating other dealers undercutting their profit. And so forth
A-Eon (Trevor) paid what was needed to make brand new custom boards,
AmigaKit (Matthew) has to manage his costs to be able to sell those boards.
AOTL (Aaron) has to manage his business.
Trevor, just Thanks. I love my X5000!!!
-
I would think this is simply a case of a weak pound causing an issue for US customers buying from their US dealer vs the option of buying from Amigakit even after delivery and import charges. Plus AOTL May have different overheads and margin expectations to Amigakit and we know a unified price point across the globe is what clicky hobbyist groups are sensitive to.
-
Has AmigaKit been based in England? Yes.
When was Amigakit based in England?
-
So many distinctions and distractions..
Has This thread has been about profit (theirs or ours) or who do you love?
At first AOTL and its need to show it;s anger when that was threatened?
And as the threads continued to show that love in
;As the Amiga World Turned
First, for your consideration..
Is and has AmigaKit been a store selling various products? Yes.
Has AmigaKit been based in England? Yes.
Has it been a problem for Amigans in the U.S.? Yes.
Has it done a perfect job. No. Not bad but not perfect.
Over all, Matthew was considered a saving grace for most Amigans after ALL the amiga stores closed.
At that time we loved Matthew as the owner of AmigaKit.
But now, AmigaKit is perceived as a distributor (and other things), by selling to other retail stores.
By luck and intent, Matthew is an owner of a store, AmigaKit. He also became a distributor as well as a partner in a manufacturing company A-Eon. Why? He was one of the few willing to risk his money!
But, as these companies all are different legal entities.
With the advent of the Internet, we are offered items to buy from the manufactures, distributors and the retail stores, even individuals.
So
AmigaKit gets to sell to us.
A-Eon gets to choose to have AmigaKit distribute.
If you dont like this close arrangement, just buy out Matthew (or Trevor)
One of the reasons we love AOTL was that Aaron (good cust service) but his prices werent great.
I know I wanted to support him as a new dealer so I bought a video card and other stuff. Another reason, the extra cost of freight might be lower (Iggy/Jim likes the fact he could drive to the store and save freight and return broken things without the hassle of return freight etc.) Thats why he loves AOTL, at this time) Might not be the case if AOTL was in CA.
But Consider freight, which we dont love, it cost money to get things (people too) somewhere..trucks, trains, planes, fuel, drivers etc. Still have to pay.. even if it says free shipping
Next thing to consider is this business AOTL stating ;in any way, shape or form; WOW!
I remember the days when the discounters lobbied to change the keystone retail prices here in CA.
The retailers hated it undercutting their prices. Then the law changed, then it was the discounters hating other dealers undercutting their profit. And so forth
A-Eon (Trevor) paid what was needed to make brand new custom boards,
AmigaKit (Matthew) has to manage his costs to be able to sell those boards.
AOTL (Aaron) has to manage his business.
Trevor, just Thanks. I love my X5000!!!
I can't counter any of that.
Basically, sucks to be Aaron.
And his business has been a boon to me.
BTW - His OWC pricing isn't bad, but you're not going to be able to do anything with AmigaKit prices if you're in direct competition with the distributor (you basically take whatever margin he offers you).
So, maybe that last point explains a possible reason for part of Aaron's dissatisfaction.
Just a possibility, but...
And not one any of us can counter as we don't know what the margins made by dealers amounts to.
BUT, if you're in a business, and that margin sucks, yeah you have a right to be unhappy.
Could Aaron have dropped AmigaKit hardware without complaint or explanation?
Yeah, but if this somewhat forensic analysis is correct, in his place I'm not sure I would either.
So, a limited supply of a product with a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty margin?
Sounds like a good reason to complain.
-
Iggy said"
"Could Aaron have dropped AmigaKit hardware without complaint or explanation?
"Yeah, but if this somewhat forensic analysis is correct, in his place I'm not sure I would either.
So, a limited supply of a product with a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty margin?
Sounds like a good reason to complain."
I said"
If there were lots of options...maybe!
But in business, a one and only one (you do know AEon is the only place to get x5000 and AmigaKit is the source) option is the wrong place to show your emotions.
Going with the cutting nose to spite face...
-
@SACC-guy (& Rob for spotting this)
Can we trust ANY of the other Yes/No "facts" you've given? ;-)
Has AmigaKit been based in England? Yes.
Amigakit.com
[/B] [/FONT]Registered Address:
Leaman Computing Ltd
Asquith House
Unit 1 Dyfrig Road
Cardiff. CF5 5AD. U.K.
= WALES, part of the United Kingdom but definitely NOT England!
Wiki:
Wales is a country in southwest Great Britain known for its rugged coastline, mountainous national parks, distinctive Welsh language and Celtic culture. Cardiff, the capital, is a refined coastal city with a nightlife scene and a medieval castle with ornate Gothic Revival interiors. In the northwest, Snowdonia National Park has lakes, glacial landforms, hiking trails and a railway up to the peak of Snowdon.
Capital (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=wales+capital&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt9SSyU620s_JT04syczP00_OL80rKaq0Sk4syCxJzAEAGGIPCSoAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQ6BMIlAEoADAR): Cardiff (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=Cardiff&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt1QCswyLjcu0ZLKTrfRz8pMTSzLz8_ST80vzSooqrZITCzJLEnMAmq0BSDQAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQmxMIlQEoATAR)
Area (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=wales+area&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt9SSyk620s_JT04syczPgzOsEotSEwHUykpEKAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQ6BMImAEoADAS): 20,761 km²
Population (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=wales+population&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt9TSyk620s_JT04syczP0y8uAdLFJZnJiTnxRanpQCGrgvyC0hywLABykVHWOAAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQ6BMImwEoADAT): 3.063 million (2011)
National anthem (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=wales+national+anthem&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt9RSyU620s_JT04syczP00_OL80rKaq0ygNzE3MUEvNKMlJzAQZhlsUyAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQ6BMIngEoADAU): Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&biw=1320&bih=662&q=Hen+Wlad+Fy+Nhadau&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOPgE-LQz9U3yDJNt1Ti1k_XNzQyzDbOSjHWUslOttLPyU9OLMnMz9NPzi_NKymqtMoDcxNzFBLzSjJScwEmXaQrPwAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil6u214ZjUAhXhLcAKHfJpBmwQmxMInwEoATAU)
Flag:
(http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/dragon.gif)
National Sport: Rugby
(http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/69/590x/Warburton-Wales-562652.jpg)
Famous Coastline seen in Dr Who: Southerndown nr Bridgend, South Wales
(http://oi167.photobucket.com/albums/u147/jmctimelord/Doctor%20Who/series%205/s5filming4.jpg)
-
I'm on the correct side of the pond...give me a break.
the whole UK thing and what the maps call England is your issue (lol)
-
Too right!
Tis better to have erred and lost...
-
I'm on the correct side of the pond...give me a break.
the whole UK thing and what the maps call England is your issue (lol)
@Sacc-Guy
Buy a better map then Yankee boy. I'm not about to assume Sacramento is in Texas just because they shout the loudest am I because I understand that you are the 'United' States just as we are the 'United' Kingdom. Both the words 'United' stand for an amalgam of constituent states or nations that are stronger together but different in their history and in the case of Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England constitute different races of people with different cultures and traditions. It's not just the difference between Texans liking rodeo and Californians liking surfing :-)
-
@Sacc-Guy
Buy a better map then Yankee boy.
Sounds like somebody got their panties in a bunch. How the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! is this relevant to the thread? :p
-
@Sacc-Guy
Buy a better map then Yankee boy. I'm not about to assume Sacramento is in Texas just because they shout the loudest am I because I understand that you are the 'United' States just as we are the 'United' Kingdom. Both the words 'United' stand for an amalgam of constituent states or nations that are stronger together but different in their history and in the case of Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England constitute different races of people with different cultures and traditions. It's not just the difference between Texans liking rodeo and Californians liking surfing :-)
Tell it to the colon-ists. (really big grin)
My maps don't have any of those place names.
aka laughing boy (what is that guy in the red shirt doing?)
BTW, I fixit already
-
Jesus you guys dislike the Welsh that much?
Makes me like them better.
But then, I'm Irish, and I've always felt...well _ the English.
After all, it would only be returning the favor.
Since your plantations did make Ireland a mass exporter of food during the potato famine (in other words, you let us starve, in the name of profit).
BUT, that's wholly off topic.
And if everyone of European decent held long term grudges, well...no one would be talking.
Tell it to the colon-ists. (really big grin)
My maps don't have any of those place names.
aka laughing boy (what is that guy in the red shirt doing?)
BTW, I fixit already
As to who's colon was involved...I've believe it was yours. :hammer:
Twice if I'm not mistaken.
Proud to be from a country that kicked "Great" Britain's ass. :lol:
After all, what's so great about it?
That you were all being buggered by the Roman Empire at one point?
Or that your dumb enough to look back on the concept of "Empire" fondly?
Except for the Magna Carta, Common Law, and a language, your contributions to us have been...limited.
And on THAT low note, I'm off for the night, because even I'm not comfortable being this stupid (really...colon...ists?).
-
@SACC-guy
Maybe your geography / history should be taught through the medium of film studies or "movie" studies as you probably call it :-)
I guess it would go something like this:
"Like that place where the dude holas out, "You can take our land but you'll never take our Freeeedooom!!!" is like called Scotland kinda like that 'Beyond the Wall' land that John Snow heroically rallies against the white walkers. And that emerald isle where that guy who will "Find you and when he finds you he WILL kill you!" comes from, yes it's most excellently Northern Ireland. And the country where the Big Kahuna vampire dude from Twilight lives or the serial killer out of Silence of the Lambs who was also kinda scary as the Westworld architect brainiac or the growling Batman super-dude was born... far out that's right it's Wales!!! Or that super-sized tea munching fairy tale land where everyone talks like Hugh Grant, they all live a red bus away from a red phone box emblazoned mini-New York called London ... that's right England where the Queen lives and where they wrote all the screen plays to base our movies on!! Other than that little wizard dude they wrote about him in the place 'Beyond the Wall'. What about the Land of the Rings or what the freaking hell was it called. No dude that was Australia or New Guinea or something! :-) Like dude I think I've got it ... gnarly man.... bodaciously far out and most righteous my compadres (or similar typical Californian dialogue)....
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/19/d5/0e19d5b3cb8e8e0813ed120b76c4f7aa.jpg)
-
I blame my bad luck for the whole situation as I was about to place an order for a system from AotL in a week. Seems like I always run into issues like this when I'm dealing with Amiga hardware. I definitely want a system that natively runs OS4 so I'll have to check out Amigakit's offerings. I'm dreading the potential shipping delays from across the pond.
-
@Iggy
Except for the Magna Carta, Common Law, and a language, your contributions to us have been...limited.
Add those to the jet engine, the computer, the World Wide Web and the television to name a few. Oh yeah and we also seem to have kept the development of Amiga going as well with the help of the Belgians ;-)
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Add those to the jet engine, the computer, the World Wide Web and the television to name a few.
what? thats all european inventions? at least tv isnt that clear i guess. bell has been expermenting with rotating mirrors and some guys west coast have been smearing cesium on lab flasks to see if they can turn an image of a black stripe around and see some trace of it on the bottom of a receiver.
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Ahh, Nationalism: Teaches you to be proud of sh1t you didn't do and hate people you've never met.
Keeping the stupid occupied since time immemorial.....
-
@nicholas
Focusing on past innovations and good things your forefathers have done for the community and nation should motivate us to keep pushing ahead with new innovations and to make the world a better place. Just as Wilberforce fought in Parliament to abolish slavery so we today face the same uphill battle to get abortion banned in present day Parliament. Where will the next engineering advancement come? Will we invent useful AI, cheap fuel or the ability to unplug ourselves from the internet for more than 10 minutes? :-)
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what? thats all european inventions? at least tv isnt that clear i guess. bell has been expermenting with rotating mirrors and some guys west coast have been smearing cesium on lab flasks to see if they can turn an image of a black stripe around and see some trace of it on the bottom of a receiver.
@Wawron
No, they're all British inventions. In fact the Scottish on their own are prolific inventors. I think it must be partly down to climate as you much less likely to go to a workshop and invent something if the sun is shining and you would rather sit by the pool and keep cool in the shade!
And yes John Logie Baird; a scottish engineer was one of the inventors of the mechanical television. He demonstrating the first working television system on 26 January 1926, and was the inventor of both the first publicly demonstrated colour television system, and the first purely electronic colour television picture tube.
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@nicholas
Focusing on past innovations and good things your forefathers have done for the community and nation should motivate us to keep pushing ahead with new innovations and to make the world a better place. Just as Wilberforce fought in Parliament to abolish slavery so we today face the same uphill battle to get abortion banned in present day Parliament. Where will the next engineering advancement come? Will we invent useful AI, cheap fuel or the ability to unplug ourselves from the internet for more than 10 minutes? :-)
Your forefathers or the forefathers of people that you happen to be born on the same island as?
-
I have been a by-standard on this thread.
But I will know say two quick things.
Concerning the original topic.
1) Friends can be Friends, but Money is money.
People who can normally be friends can become bitter when money is involved.
It is no use conjecturing who was "right" or "wrong" the decision may be completely financially made that have nothing to do with being "nice" or "pleasant", etc.
This is why I not to do business with friends.
The UK vs USA thing.
2) I personally, as an American, value our close relationship as countries and Allies :-). We, Americans, and the British Commonwealth nations (canada-uk-nz-australia) do share in a common past and common culture.
Enough of the touchy feeling stuff
Yes the whole UK-GB-England thing is very confusing to us on this side of the pond. I would guess to say that the average American does not know the difference between the three. Ie if England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland are one country, why do they have separate world cup teams. It would be like the US having 50 different teams.
I remember as a kid wondering why the British union jack looked different during the American Revolutionary War than it does today, (ie missing a half of a red cross).
and where is the Welsh flag in the British union jack?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack
Further confusing the issue was the use of the term Great Britain at the Olympics (ie the British Isles minus Ireland).
-
@nicholas
Have you got any sense of community or belonging or being part of something bigger than just you and your nuclear family. People who live in Britain are all British and can all be proud of British achievements. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.
-
The UK vs USA thing.
2) I personally, as an American, value our close relationship as countries and Allies :-). We, Americans, and the British Commonwealth nations (canada-uk-nz-australia) do share in a common past and common culture.
Enough of the touchy feeling stuff
Yes the whole UK-GB-England thing is very confusing to us on this side of the pond. I would guess to say that the average American does not know the difference between the three. Ie if England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland are one country, why do they have separate world cup teams. It would be like the US having 50 different teams.
I remember as a kid wondering why the British union jack looked different during the American Revolutionary War than it does today, (ie missing a half of a red cross).
and where is the Welsh flag in the British union jack?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack
Further confusing the issue was the use of the term Great Britain at the Olympics (ie the British Isles minus Ireland).
I think the refrences were mis read and the kidding around got out of hand...sorry
-
@nicholas
Have you got any sense of community or belonging or being part of something bigger than just you and your nuclear family. People who live in Britain are all British and can all be proud of British achievements. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.
I'll take that as a no then and assume that you haven't achieved anything to be proud of so feel the need to attach yourself to the individual achievements of others in order to feel better about your own lack of achievements.
I consider myself English not British BTW.
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@Motormouth (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=3898)
Yes the whole UK-GB-England thing is very confusing to us on this side of the pond. I would guess to say that the average American does not know the difference between the three. Ie if England-Wales-Scotland-Northern Ireland are one country, why do they have separate world cup teams. It would be like the US having 50 different teams.
Exactly because we are unique nations with different racial make ups. The Scottish, Welsh and Irish are primarily from Celtic ancestry while the English are Anglo-Saxon. They each speak different languages though English is now the common language. They have different traditions and yet we have a common history going back hundreds of years.
Yes, Wales isn't directly represented on the Union Flag and yes the term Great Britain is used for the Olympics when it is still technically the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
We have seperate teams because we like competing against each other. We feel passionately about our difference as well as our commonality with our Westminster Parliament, armed forces and governance systems. The 50 U.S. states I'd argue are not quite different enough either in their racial make up, traditions or heritage to warrant similar passions or interstate rivalries. I guess it would have been like having four separate unions made up of French, Dutch, English and Spanish settlers all living as separate states in northern America for a hundred years before uniting into a four 'state' United States. Does that make more sense?
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WTF is going on here?
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@nicholas (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=944)
A conflicted Pakistani/Englishman by the look of your logo. Again I'm sad you can't rejoice in the success of the English football team (not that success has come their way in over half a century:-)) or the Olympic team or even the fact that we (the United Kingdom) reclaimed our sovereignty from an unelected quango called the European Commission.
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I read a lot on international boards and everything is very civil and mostly cordial.
Then there is that nasty little undercurrent of tribal and nationalist resentment just waiting to poke it's head out.
I know from what I read here some of the comments were in good fun, but some should know better.
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@LoadWB (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=4168)
We're sick of talking about a rogue US Amiga reseller and are now talking about nationalism/patriotism and the US/UK 'special' relationship! It's far more fun though I should go to bed as I'm on the Welsh/Scottish/N. Irish and English side of the pond :-)
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@LoadWB (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=4168)
We're sick of talking about a rogue US Amiga reseller and are now talking about nationalism/patriotism and the US/UK 'special' relationship! It's far more fun though I should go to bed as I'm on the Welsh/Scottish/N. Irish and English side of the pond :-)
My head is spinning, like a ride on the merry-go-round.
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I'm English but I now live Stateside and the one thing I miss are the Welsh and Irish. Worked in both Wales and to a lesser extent Ireland. Two beautiful countries with great people and not so great weather.
Cymru yw'r gorau!
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WTF is going on here?
The great British tradition of bantering. :)
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@nicholas (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=944)
A conflicted Pakistani/Englishman by the look of your logo. Again I'm sad you can't rejoice in the success of the English football team (not that success has come their way in over half a century:-)) or the Olympic team or even the fact that we (the United Kingdom) reclaimed our sovereignty from an unelected quango called the European Commission.
No idea where you've got Pakistani from but then again to a Little Englander "all Muslims are Pakis" eh? ;)
I'll celebrate when we get rid of our unelected Prime Minister for sure and do a double celebration if/when we get rid of that benefit scrounging family that lord it over us too. ;)
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WTF is going on here?
What's going on here is proof many so-called Amigan's are two plums short of a pie.
TJ
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What's going on here is proof many so-called Amigan's are two plums short of a pie.
TJ
British self-deprecating humour and sarcasm (otherwise known as bantering or "piss taking") is a common shared trait of the four countries that make up this island nation (and most of the former colonies barring the USA tbh).
We take the piss out of each other constantly but Johnny Foreigner doesn't often get it.
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Okay, please stop this now.
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@nicholas (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=944)
A conflicted Pakistani/Englishman by the look of your logo. Again I'm sad you can't rejoice in the success of the English football team (not that success has come their way in over half a century:-)) or the Olympic team or even the fact that we (the United Kingdom) reclaimed our sovereignty from an unelected quango called the European Commission.
To put it nicely. You sir are a un-educated tit
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No idea where you've got Pakistani from but then again to a Little Englander "all Muslims are Pakis" eh? ;)
I'll celebrate when we get rid of our unelected Prime Minister for sure and do a double celebration if/when we get rid of that benefit scrounging family that lord it over us too. ;)
Sorry it's an Iranian flag isn't it? My bad. I suppose the Engli-stan bit threw me off and I thought of Paki-stan. Maybe saying your from Eran (England / Iran) would be more accurate? ;-)
And also we are not voting for a Prime Minister in the General Election (we aren't American as already discussed) we are voting for an MP to represent us in Parliament. I don't think Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn are fit to be our Prime Minister and I question Theresa May's reasons for calling it early. It won't change my voting pattern however as I have a good MP who has done a good job and has also stood up for marriage being between a man and woman in spite of the rabid liberal media trying to outlaw such opinions. If she can stand against peer pressure and stick to some moral convictions she's the MP my area needs irrespective of her party allegiance.
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@JJ
You sir are a un-educated tit
I'll think you'll find that the European Commission are made up of cronies put forward as representatives by Member State leaders i.e. Theresa May. They are not elected by the people and are the very definition of a quango. What part of that is misinformed? If you want to live in a slightly richer but subservient, passive and increasingly undemocratic nanny state then I guess staying in the EU was a great idea.
... or is that you simply can't understand how anyone could disagree with your enlightened opinion that we should just accept EU hand outs (our own money given back to us with stipulations on what it can be spent on) and keep quiet?
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@JJ
I'll think you'll find that the European Commission are made up of cronies put forward as representatives by Member State leaders i.e. Theresa May. They are not elected by the people and are the very definition of a quango. What part of that is misinformed? If you want to live in a slightly richer but subservient, passive and increasingly undemocratic nanny state then I guess staying in the EU was a great idea.
... or is that you simply can't understand how anyone could disagree with your enlightened opinion that we should just accept EU hand outs (our own money given back to us with stipulations on what it can be spent on) and keep quiet?
Whilst I was not just refereeing to EU part , your assertion of the ethnicity of someone else we will ignore for now.
Being in Europe was not just about what we get out of it, that is a very Tory attitude. Us being in Europe was benefit to lots of outer countries. But everybody is too busy caring about imaginary borders on pieces of paper to care about their fellow man
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I'm just not interested in using a cpu with a crippled fpu.
So no Vampire then :roflmao:
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@JJ
I'll think you'll find that the European Commission are made up of cronies put forward as representatives by Member State leaders i.e. Theresa May. They are not elected by the people
I didn't vote in this government so what is the difference ? You do realise that we will be just accepting all of the EU laws as British laws on bulck on when we leave EU, so again what is the difference.
People are obsessed by the notion of governing oursleves, most laws and regulations that have come from the EU have been a positive and not a negative like the Daily mail would have you believe
I for one, am generally conce3erned about how we are about to be F in the a by the tories. They are already eroding our freedoms, and the EU would have stopped a lot of the shister stuff they bring in.
But yeah,
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@Motormouth (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=3898)
The Scottish, Welsh and Irish are primarily from Celtic ancestry while the English are Anglo-Saxon. They each speak different languages though English is now the common language. They have different traditions and yet we have a common history going back hundreds of years.
And the vikings? When are you going to mention the vikings? Why have you not mentioned the vikings? Don't you think it is about time you mention the vikings? What would the British islands and language been without the vikings? You know... the vikings? :laughing:
Yes, Wales isn't directly represented on the Union Flag
Because Wales is as much part of the union as Gibraltar is - the Kingdoms that are united are those of Scotland and England.
Does that make more sense?
You don't make much sense on this issue, no, sorry. Hopefully the UK is soon a thing of the past - good riddance.
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@nicholas (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=944)
A conflicted Pakistani/Englishman by the look of your logo.
??? :roflmao:
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I suppose the Engli-stan bit threw me off and I thought of Paki-stan.
Quiz - what does "stan" mean? :hammer:
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Okay, please stop this now.
Why? Finally a fun thread!
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@JJ
People are obsessed by the notion of governing oursleves,
It's called democracy!! It's served us well up to now and if you don't like the way your country is being governed you can write to or visit your MPs surgery. You can't travel to Brussels and give them what for (unless your Nigel Farage ;-)).
I didn't vote in this government so what is the difference ?
No you didn't you voted for an MP and here's the rub. A dodgy and corrupt Labour/Lib Dem/UKIP/ Green / "insert minority party here" MP is just as bad as a dodgy Tory MP. Why not make sure these public servant that get paid £70,000+ out of the public purse are actually worthy of the position? There's an idea. Maybe make sure they have the correct life experience to serve in this office. Or you could just sit back and trust party politics and end up with a daft 70s throwback like Jeremy Corbyn :-)
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What's funniest from this side of the Pond is that with all of the anti-hurt-my-feelings laws we read about coming from over there (yeah, we have our share of stupidity, too) one gets the idea that ya'll are a bunch of stuck-up tw@ts. So watching this thread unfold has been refreshing.
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Trying to get back on topic, that article linked makes sense. Trevor has been very vocal that they are looking to sell the hardware at what they consider "cost" or very close to it, and hope to make profit through software (AMIstore, etc.). This business model makes it difficult to have a reseller channel - you can't expect a reseller to not expect some kind of margin for something you want them to sell and support. I believe A-Eon expects resellers to tack on profit by selling accessories, assembling complete systems, etc., but I'm not sure what the potential is there.
What I don't understand is how this wasn't clear to begin with. Was AOTL expecting something different? I'd be interested in hearing their side of things.
The reality, though, is if they are committed to the market they need to work within the structure that's in place. Yes, it's pretty crappy that AmigaKit and A-Eon are basically one and the same, but they can't change that.
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What kind of person are you? Getting back on topic, that's nuts.
When a local business goes under here there is never a lack of speculation on why, who's fault, family problems, you name it. I suppose it's seeking drama in mundane matters.
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Sorry it's an Iranian flag isn't it? My bad. I suppose the Engli-stan bit threw me off and I thought of Paki-stan. Maybe saying your from Eran (England / Iran) would be more accurate? ;-)
Yes it's an Iranian flag, but I'm not Iranian nor are my parents. I'm as English as you or anyone else on this island of mongrels. Englistan is just the Farsi word for "Land of the Angles". Play on words. :)
And also we are not voting for a Prime Minister in the General Election (we aren't American as already discussed) we are voting for an MP to represent us in Parliament. I don't think Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn are fit to be our Prime Minister and I question Theresa May's reasons for calling it early. It won't change my voting pattern however as I have a good MP who has done a good job and has also stood up for marriage being between a man and woman in spite of the rabid liberal media trying to outlaw such opinions. If she can stand against peer pressure and stick to some moral convictions she's the MP my area needs irrespective of her party allegiance.
See now, my local mp is a complete arse and I can't stand him however due to our crappy implementation of pseudo-democracy I have to put a cross next to his name for any chance of Mr Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. I don't agree with half of his liberal policies but he's the best of a bad bunch by far.
I already have a pre-written letter i shall be sending to my local MP informing him that I didn't vote FOR him despite crossing the box next to his name come election day lol
@Mods
Can you split this off into a CH thread please? Ta!
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What's funniest from this side of the Pond is that with all of the anti-hurt-my-feelings laws we read about coming from over there (yeah, we have our share of stupidity, too) one gets the idea that ya'll are a bunch of stuck-up tw@ts. So watching this thread unfold has been refreshing.
Haha, you think we are being stuck up? We are behaving extremely low class, quite the opposite lol (Stuck up means the same over there as over here I guess yeah?)
It's very few and far between when a USAian understands us but some of y'all do. ;) @Methusalus, Iggy, where are you dudes?
To all those complaining, do you forget the glory days of this forum under Wayne when pretty much every thread was full of light hearted banter like this? It's only recently this place has gotten so aspie-like.
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I never thought it would be me saying this first but BRING BACK FRANKO! :)
Plenty of nuts for his squirrels here lol
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Trying to get back on topic, that article linked makes sense. Trevor has been very vocal that they are looking to sell the hardware at what they consider "cost" or very close to it, and hope to make profit through software (AMIstore, etc.). This business model makes it difficult to have a reseller channel - you can't expect a reseller to not expect some kind of margin for something you want them to sell and support. I believe A-Eon expects resellers to tack on profit by selling accessories, assembling complete systems, etc., but I'm not sure what the potential is there.
What I don't understand is how this wasn't clear to begin with. Was AOTL expecting something different? I'd be interested in hearing their side of things.
The reality, though, is if they are committed to the market they need to work within the structure that's in place. Yes, it's pretty crappy that AmigaKit and A-Eon are basically one and the same, but they can't change that.
If the article is correct, then I assume it's more than just the pricing of the boards that has caused Aaron to make this decision.
It usually comes out in the wash, so we just have to wait until someone spills the beans. :)
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Whilst I was not just refereeing to EU part , your assertion of the ethnicity of someone else we will ignore for now.
Being in Europe was not just about what we get out of it, that is a very Tory attitude. Us being in Europe was benefit to lots of outer countries. But everybody is too busy caring about imaginary borders on pieces of paper to care about their fellow man
Spot on!
Plus I'm sure Bozzer will be just as ecstaticly happy when Scotland, Wales, and Ulster get their independence from a govt they didn't elect running their affairs from a foreign country (England) that merely gives them back their own money whilst telling them what to spend it on.
The UK is "better together"? Sounds like a load of collectivist pinko rubbish eh? ;)
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@nicholas
The UK is "better together"? Sounds like a load of collectivist pinko rubbish eh? ;)
The UK has proven its worth and the Westminster Parliament is far more robust than the devolved parliaments/assemblies with its dual house structure which considers and amends laws hence meaning there are less bad ones once the legislature is signed in. The Welsh Assembly will attempt to ban the smacking of children senselessly meddling in the affairs of family life! The Scottish Parliament is a complete mess by comparison producing unworkable rubbish like the Named Person Scheme which is being quietly shelved because it directly contradicts patient/doctor confidentiality amongst other valued principles (such as a parent actually being kept in the loop regarding the welbeing of their child).
Plus the union keeps wackos like Nicola Sturgeon in check who otherwise would be an apprentice Angela Merkel. Talk about a bad advert for proportional representation!! All the SNP MSPs are completely in the pocket of Sturgeon because their loyality is to the party (due the party list system) rather than the electorate! A rotten and awful system much like the European Commission. Maybe that's way Sturgeon wants to stay in the corrupt EU?
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Ahh, Nationalism: Teaches you to be proud of sh1t you didn't do and hate people you've never met.
Keeping the stupid occupied since time immemorial.....
Thanks Nik,
I think at least you understand that I was just trying to set a fire under the Brits.
And it IS just banter.
Scots, the Welsh, the Irish...I think we've all traditional enjoyed tweaking the noses of friends in the Empire for some time.
Its far too easy.
AND you ARE right, this whole situation about AOTL (and no doubt other distributors) is bound to come out eventually.
BTW - Those last comments last night were due, in part, because I was in the middle of a bad migraine, right after a late visit to my alma mater.
So, I acknowledge they were unduly harsh.
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The only problem with that compromise is you get similar performance to your emulated system, but it is more affordable and you get video support.
I'm just not interested in using a cpu with a crippled fpu.
We don't know yet how crippled the FPU will be under AmigaOS. It might not be that bad, and many (most) applications don't even use FPU. Besides I have 8x FPU's at 4 GHz in the other box if for some reason I need to do something FPU heavy.
It would be silly to use something like the X5000 under AmigaOS for FPU heavy tasks anyway, where it's single-threaded.
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To all those complaining, do you forget the glory days of this forum under Wayne when pretty much every thread was full of light hearted banter like this? It's only recently this place has gotten so aspie-like.
ahh the days when people actually used this forum and here would be tens if not hindered od active users logged in at a time.
and nearly every thread descended into heated debate.
I miss those days, but never franko
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WALES, part of the United Kingdom but definitely NOT England!
Wales is a country in southwest Great Britain known for its rugged coastline, mountainous national parks, distinctive Welsh language and Celtic culture. Cardiff, the capital, is a refined coastal city with a nightlife scene and a medieval castle with ornate Gothic Revival interiors.
[CUT]
Famous Coastline seen in Dr Who: Southerndown nr Bridgend, South Wales
(http://oi167.photobucket.com/albums/u147/jmctimelord/Doctor%20Who/series%205/s5filming4.jpg)
Rugged coastlines are great!
(http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/matt-smith-best-doctor-who-episodes.jpg)
Butterfly ties are great!
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No idea where you've got Pakistani from but then again to a Little Englander "all Muslims are Pakis" eh? ;)
I'll celebrate when we get rid of our unelected Prime Minister for sure and do a double celebration if/when we get rid of that benefit scrounging family that lord it over us too. ;)
What? Wait you're not? :rofl: There goes my image of each religion having it's cookie cutter followers. >.<
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Amiga In The Lake!
...hubris.
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Amiga In The Lake!
...hubris.
I rather like that one! :roflmao:
Nice to see some humor injected back into this.
BTW - All of you, I miss Frank. But then, I miss Cammy too (who, btw, like me is a friend of Franko's).
What I miss, is tolerance for other directions in all things Amiga.
AND, a good argument (not a stupid one).
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@Sacc-Guy
Both the words 'United' stand for an amalgam of constituent states or nations that are stronger together but different in their history and in the case of Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England constitute different races of people with different cultures and traditions.
And long may we remain a United Kingdom :-)
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Who was the other lunatic who did that cover of only amiga makes it possible and ripped loads of people off and was a dick
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Merlanida (sp)? or was it that milspec guy from Oregon???
Edit: Doommaster aka Doomy! How could I forget. :) I am getting old.
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Who was the other lunatic who did that cover of only amiga makes it possible and ripped loads of people off and was a dick
Doom Master lol
I wonder what retro community he's scamming these days?
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Ahhh doom master lol that's the bellend. And yeah he was always on about military spec lol
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And the vikings? When are you going to mention the vikings? Why have you not mentioned the vikings? Don't you think it is about time you mention the vikings? What would the British islands and language been without the vikings? You know... the vikings? :laughing:
Not to mention the French. 1066 and all that.
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Not to mention the French. 1066 and all that.
... as I found out recently, my surname (Wheeler) is actually Anglicized Norman (Villiers).
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most applications don't even use FPU
Having spent large parts of the weekend getting a couple of Vampired Amiga systems up to speed, I can only say that there is more software around expecting FPU than you would think. There is even software that has specifically "non FPU" builds, that still bugs out with 8000 000B on the Vampire.
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BTW - All of you, I miss Frank. But then, I miss Cammy too (who, btw, like me is a friend of Franko's).
What I miss, is tolerance for other directions in all things Amiga.
AND, a good argument (not a stupid one).
Hear hear. I also miss Franko. I used to communicate with him on Facebook for quite some time, but lately he's been very quiet there as well. Though, every now and then, some of his friends and family tag him on a photo, I think he has just decided to spend his time being a grandfather and family man :)
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Not to mention the French. 1066 and all that.
Ah, but were they really French? ;)
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Ah, but were they really French? ;)
I think you'll find they were Nor(se)mans ...
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I think you'll find they were Nor(se)mans ...
Yes, another word for vikings :) To this day, a person from Norway is called "nordmann/norrman/nordmand/norðmann" in the Scandinavian languages.
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@nicholas
The Welsh Assembly will attempt to ban the smacking of children senselessly meddling in the affairs of family life!
Are you saying that violence within family is currently legal over there?
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Are you saying that violence within family is currently legal over there?
@quenthal
No doubt you're used to liberal parenting techniques where a child running towards a busy road is not smacked but given a lecture about the threats of the motorcar and a warning your little prince/princess won't get an icecream/a visit from Santa/a go on the iPad unless they behave nicely.
If you want to risk your children doing exactly the same next time and running out into a road/car park/busy shopping centre then be my guest but don't tell us how to discipline our much loved children! The nanny state is destroying Europe not smacking!
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@quenthal
No doubt you're used to liberal parenting techniques where a child running towards a busy road is not smacked but given a lecture about the threats of the motorcar and a warning your little prince/princess won't get an icecream/a visit from Santa/a go on the iPad unless they behave nicely.
If you want to risk your children doing exactly the same next time and running out into a road/car park/busy shopping centre then be my guest but don't tell us how to discipline our much loved children! The nanny state is destroying Europe not smacking!
Yes because violence is always the answer. So by your twisted logic, when you do something wrong in work it should be ok for your boss to punch you in the chops ?
The more you speak, the more you reveal yourself to be a very unsavoury character. You need laws like this to stop people like you abusing your children.
Yes explaining to a child why they should not run in the road is much much much much better than hitting your child. Tit
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nanny state how often do you hear this, won't be long before you start trotting out "it's political correctness gone mad" and "Muslims want to be ban xmas"
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@JJ
I see the stereotypical Labour supporting Welshman who wants to ban smacking has tied his colours to the mast ;-)
The problem with your logic is that children aren't logical. You can't simply explain that cars are dangerous and expect that to act accordingly because when young they are very impulsive. One of the main problems with our society are the 'we know our rights', 'the world owes me a living' and 'our child can do no wrong' brigades. They represent a whole generation of people that just believe that they can let their kids do whatever they want with the odd XBox bribe and sage word of advice rather than proper well measured and consistant parenting which includes discipline. You're the tit if you think that a smack is 'never' required even when the child puts him or herself in danger! Either that or you've never had children of your own or are too left wing or liberal to function :-)
Get a career at a University or in Social Work and leave the parenting to those of us with a shred of common sense and less politically correct sensibilities.
And no Muslims are not attempting to ban Christmas as post the Manchester and London attacks they are too busy trying to distance themselves from the unfortunate teachings on Jihad contained within the Hadith (their religious book containing the life teachings of Muhammad). The only debate Muslims are facing currently amongst themselves is whether they are currently living during a time of 'lesser' or 'greater' jihad. If they are in a minority within a country it is normally the case that they seek out positions of influence, build up Muslim enclaves and raise big families until their country wide influence (and population) increases. 'Greater' jihad is suposed to begin once they are in a majority position i.e. Saudi Arabia. I guess some extremists are a bit to keen to persecute the infidels and jump the gun! Maybe you think Paul McCartney's "All You Need is Love" will change their minds? If you sleep better at night thinking good old simple liberal 'British Values' (presumably including banning smacking and silencing Christians) will overcome this highly motivated and purposeful terror than good luck to you in your delusion.
The most conflicting image seen recently in the media was the Burqa wearing woman on the BBC saying that the priority now was increased INTEGRATION!!! This was a woman wearing a Burqa! Who is supposed to integrate to which way of life? I take it that they expect us to conform to their way of doing things even if it takes decades. Liberal Wales you've been warned ;-)
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https://youtu.be/dCk6fSQ21rY
Nuff said.
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@Nicholas
It's not a case of whether British born Muslims are British our not it's whether the Muslim communities take the Hadith's teachings on jihad seriously or not. The whole dodging the issue especially in the media and presumably in the mosques themselves is not going to solve the issue. It's not a race issue it's a doctrine issue.
Going back to JJ's original comment; can a Christian freely celebrate Christmas in Saudi Arabia? Food for thought ;-)
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@Nicholas
It's not a case of whether British born Muslims are British our not it's whether the Muslim communities take the Hadith's teachings on jihad seriously or not. The whole dodging the issue especially in the media and presumably in the mosques themselves is not going to solve the issue. It's not a race issue it's a doctrine issue.
Going back to JJ's original comment; can a Christian freely celebrate Christmas in Saudi Arabia? Food for thought ;-)
No they cannot. So stop %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing funding those %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!s!
First swear word starts with F and the second with C.
It's clear you aren't an educated man, so I'm going to help you.
Start by reading this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Secret-Affairs-Britains-Collusion-Radical/dp/1846687640
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Jesus Christ the thread is still going on.... Lol
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@nicholas
Maybe we've built a self destruct back door in the firmware code of all the Typhoon jets we sell them in case things go south ;-)
It is strange admittedly our trade / defense relationship with them. It's kind of an enemy of your enemy is your friend kind of deal. And it sounds like a proxy war against Iran in Yeman I'm sad to say.
Cor' this is good stuff! I'll have to watch a few episodes of Homeland after this! ;-)
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@nicholas
Maybe we've built a self destruct back door in the firmware code of all the Typhoon jets we sell them in case things go south ;-)
It is strange admittedly our trade / defense relationship with them. It's kind of an enemy of your enemy is your friend kind of deal. And it sounds like a proxy war against Iran in Yeman I'm sad to say.
Cor' this is good stuff! I'll have to watch a few episodes of Homeland after this! ;-)
The first word of the Qur'an to be revealed was "Iqra"; Read.
Read that book. If you don't have the money for it at the moment PM me your address and I'll buy it for you.
PS: It's not a proxy war against Iran in Yemen, it's the genocide of Shi'as that these satanic bastards have been engaging in for the last 300 years with the full funding and support of the British establishment.
The same goes for Syria and Iraq, but in those places they can engage in Christian genocide too so it's a double win for them.
Read the book and then we can discuss this on more equal terms.
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@nicholas
I'll stick to this thanks.
http://www.newsweek.com/struggle-between-sunni-and-shia-muslims-explained-291419
It's likely to be less biased.
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This looks good too:
https://www.channel4.com/news/sunni-shia-islam-muslim-syria-middle-east-key-questions
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@nicholas
I'll stick to this thanks.
http://www.newsweek.com/struggle-between-sunni-and-shia-muslims-explained-291419
It's likely to be less biased.
The book is not about Shi'ism or Sunnism.
It's about Britain.
You can lead a horse to water.....
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This looks good too:
https://www.channel4.com/news/sunni-shia-islam-muslim-syria-middle-east-key-questions
The Saud's and all these terrorist scum bags that go around murdering innocent people are not Sunni, they are Wahabbi.
Don't take my word for it, take the the word of the highest authority in Sunni Islam.
https://eruditeblogger.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/are-wahhabis-sunnis-chechnya-conference-and-saudi-anger/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmcCmjhO8KQ
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmcCmjhO8KQ
That guy is a crackpot and the qualifications he claims to holds are fake. I haven't watched this video but i'm assuming it's more of his sectarian bs?
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Sorry I'm a bit confused. Came onto this thread late. So who are the Sunni's Amigakit or AOTL?
This is allegoric yeah?
And what do Franko and Cammy have to do with it? Apart from being missed more than AOTLs ability to sell x kit.
I might go back to my hiding spot with my phone on silent......shh..
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Sorry I'm a bit confused. Came onto this thread late. So who are the Sunni's Amigakit or AOTL?
This is allegoric yeah?
And what do Franko and Cammy have to do with it? Apart from being missed more than AOTLs ability to sell x kit.
I might go back to my hiding spot with my phone on silent......shh..
The mods were asked a week ago to split this into a CH thread but they either don't care or don't visit the place anymore.
I'm bored now so you won't have to put up with my replies.
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Mods ,what mods :)
Bring back wayne :)
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@JJ
I see the stereotypical Labour supporting Welshman who wants to ban smacking has tied his colours to the mast ;-)
The problem with your logic is that children aren't logical. You can't simply explain that cars are dangerous and expect that to act accordingly because when young they are very impulsive. One of the main problems with our society are the 'we know our rights', 'the world owes me a living' and 'our child can do no wrong' brigades. They represent a whole generation of people that just believe that they can let their kids do whatever they want with the odd XBox bribe and sage word of advice rather than proper well measured and consistant parenting which includes discipline. You're the tit if you think that a smack is 'never' required even when the child puts him or herself in danger! Either that or you've never had children of your own or are too left wing or liberal to function :-)
Get a career at a University or in Social Work and leave the parenting to those of us with a shred of common sense and less politically correct sensibilities.
And no Muslims are not attempting to ban Christmas as post the Manchester and London attacks they are too busy trying to distance themselves from the unfortunate teachings on Jihad contained within the Hadith (their religious book containing the life teachings of Muhammad). The only debate Muslims are facing currently amongst themselves is whether they are currently living during a time of 'lesser' or 'greater' jihad. If they are in a minority within a country it is normally the case that they seek out positions of influence, build up Muslim enclaves and raise big families until their country wide influence (and population) increases. 'Greater' jihad is suposed to begin once they are in a majority position i.e. Saudi Arabia. I guess some extremists are a bit to keen to persecute the infidels and jump the gun! Maybe you think Paul McCartney's "All You Need is Love" will change their minds? If you sleep better at night thinking good old simple liberal 'British Values' (presumably including banning smacking and silencing Christians) will overcome this highly motivated and purposeful terror than good luck to you in your delusion.
The most conflicting image seen recently in the media was the Burqa wearing woman on the BBC saying that the priority now was increased INTEGRATION!!! This was a woman wearing a Burqa! Who is supposed to integrate to which way of life? I take it that they expect us to conform to their way of doing things even if it takes decades. Liberal Wales you've been warned ;-)
No , not a labour supporter in general.
Yeah that's great logic, so when you speed or break the law, I fully support your local copper giving you a beating. Because you are clearly too stupid to understand anything but violence.
If your children do not understand danger its probably because you do not have the intelligence or parenting skills to explain without resorting to violence. It's not your fault, it's probably genetic, or your parents beat you too much it's affected your brain.
You don't need to be a liberal to understand that hurting your child is wrong. We need laws on this otherwise where does smacking become abuse ?
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Think this thread has way run its course.
I would like to comment on some of the things here, however it will just cause more debate.