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Author Topic: What killed off the Amiga?  (Read 8023 times)

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Offline Thellenbow

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2003, 11:09:59 PM »
Bad management? most likely
Piracy? I doubt it. However, there is one thing that no one has mentioned: proprietary hardware. Look, if you could have a machine that did everything the Amiga did and used open market components, then I think the Amiga would be hot right now! That was the hope of the AmigaOne. You can't have cheap hardware unless there is a lot of competition, which means anyone and their brother can make it. That's why pc's are dirt cheap today. What do you think would happen if everyone on this site could build a computer to run Amiga OS without having to pay AI for the privilage to make it and using off the shelf parts? M$ makes their money selling an OS and they don't care whose computer you put it one. It's the manufacturer's job to make the OS work on their computer. I thought this is what AI was going to do. I was fooled again. :-?
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Offline Corrie

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2003, 11:34:56 PM »
In the early 90's I ran my own business. My main market was the Amiga and its peripherals, however I still sold and dealt with pc products.

The first day of registering my business and opening up to the public, I had full pc dealership. Everything from motherboards, ram, hds, monitors, etc.

Commodore on the other hand, refused to give me support due to the fact that I was a 'small' store and not a major chain. Therefore I couldn't buy and stock 1200's and 4000's.

Next problem, to get dealership with a distributor for Amiga peripherals such as products from GVP, I had to argue my case with the distributor that I was a serious dealer, as they didn't like giving their products to the little stores.

Once again because I wasn't from a huge department store they wanted up front $$$ in orders etc. It took me 3 months of negotiation to have the opportunity to stock any Amiga products.

Meanwhile I have numerous PC companies throwing their full product support at me, and here I was trying to promote the Amiga, without any support from the idiots who were holding the future of it in their hands.

The big department stores at the time that sold the Amiga, had no idea what it was or how to use it. I witnessed numerous times, people going into these stores asking about the Amiga and the salesman would steer the customer away towards a pc. No wonder they never sold much.

Now this is what I would like you all to consider. If Commodore and the other Amiga distributors had got off their all mightly god-like podium and actually given their full product support to those of us who ran smaller stores and had die hard Amiga staff working for us, maybe we could have actually got out their and put a few more 1000 Amigas in peoples homes.

Once again, it is a rude awakening to just how f#$$ed the people behind it all  were at the time. No wonder the pc holds the market, from the early 90's the pc companies were doing the right thing - THEY WERE GETTING THEIR PRODUCT OUT EVERY WAY POSSIBLE!
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Offline Abou27

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2003, 11:39:35 PM »
What killed the Amiga? Poor management and marketing.  It was dreadful.  Everything was rushed.  The CD32 was a good machine but was put in a ####ty box - very cheap, very tacky - and was seen as Commodore trying to cash in on video game market by cheaply converting an existing product (critics were forever failing to realise that the CD32 was a very capable machine at the time).  However, this was partly due to poor software support (maybe as a result of the Amiga's perceived piracy problem).   Also, having established the links between CD32's  and A1200s, serious users became wary of a game machine, failing to realise its power.  Thus, the few business users who had remained faithful to the Amiga, became disillusioned and quickly joined their friends on the PC bandwagon lest they got left behind.  What I have just said is probably all crap.  Suffice it to say, Commodore management was always sufficiently crap to ensure that no money was ever available to finance projects that would have resulted in guaranteed investment from loyal Amiga users throughout the world.  I believe that the best example of crap Amiga/Commodore management was the A1200 CDROM debacle.  Who didin't think that the CD32 would lead to a CD drive for the A1200 within months?  We all know how long it took and frankly it was crap when it did.  (Good old Archos managed to produce one for the PCMCIA slot despite this being impossible according to Commodore).  Sorry for rant but all very annoying.  

Computers for Dummies Dictionary for Computers; definition for Amiga: "the most technologically advanced, inexpensive home computer available - naturally , it flopped"

That about sums it up. Unfortunately.
 

Offline Tekoneiric

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2003, 11:59:35 PM »
It was basically poor management. I think they treated Commodore as more of a tax write off than a real company. Had they pumped money into advertising and R&D, it would have still been on top.

One thing that always bugged me about Commodore and Apple is that they would waste money on new case designs. Had Commodore designed a standard Amiga case and kept it basically the same from model to model, the money saved could have been sunk into R&D for the chipset designs, motherboard and software.

I also think they should have transitioned themselves from a computer manufacturer to a software company that also set standard reference designs which they license out to motherboard manufacturers.

Andrea
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2003, 01:08:40 AM »
Surely the parent company, Commodore, going bust was the killer?

Admittedly the Amiga would have fared a lot better had Commodore marketed it better, but any platform is pretty much doomed when the company goes bust.

Of course there is the question as to what killed off Commodore, but I'm not sure that it's clear that it was because of Amiga related things. The Amiga may have started to fall behind in 1993, but I've heard arguments pointing out that the Amiga was still selling well back then, and it was more due to problems with their PC product lines.

If piracy had any effect, it was that PC/Mac had CD-ROM (which at the time was pretty much unpiratable), where as the Amiga was still on floppies. But as others have pointed out, piracy can actually help sales of hardware, and there's been plenty of piracy on other successful platforms in more recent times.
 

Offline Yogi27

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2003, 01:27:01 AM »
It was definately Commodore.  The Amiga was a 32 bit machine almost a decade before the competition.  If Commodore had decent management, there wouldn't be windows.  After all these years, I am so happy to be freed from Commodore.  Now if we could just get rid of Amiga Inc. and put Alan Redhouse in charge or Ben Herman..maybe then something might happen.. :) Just my opinion.  And I agree with an earlier reply, paula is amazing being so old.  Some of my friends that have PCs can't believe the sound quality is that good made with a chip from 1985.  I might add, that alot of my PC friends are impressed with the AmigaOS (And the computer still works after 10 years!).  They really love the, just turn it off, and turn it back on thing.  Now that the AmigaOne is here, they are thinking about switching, but they need to see OS4.0 on it.  They are not really worried about the clock speed, because they see what AmigaOS can do on a 50mhz Cpu.  They are intrested to see the response time on a newer CPU.



Yogi27
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2003, 06:30:38 AM »
Quote

CU_AMiGA wrote:
So, what was it that sadly killed off the Amiga? Personally i think it was largely to do with piracy, but also a mix of Commodore's poor management and the way they produced machine's that haven't been updated? What does anyone else think?!


Had nothing to do with Piracy. Piracy did no harm to the Amiga, just to it's software developers. Amiga died long before the software developers abandoned the scene.

Amiga continued to sell, even as Commodore died. The Amiga wasn't the problem, the problem was the Amiga was tied to a symbiotic host, that died, dragging the Amiga with it.

this space for rent
 

Offline IonDeluxe

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2003, 06:32:00 AM »
Thats is completely. C= went bust, this caused the demise of Amiga.They lost huge amount of money in thier PC sector, this caused C= to go bust. They lost huge amounts of money in the PC sector because of poor management.They should never, in my opinion, even entered the PC market and focussed on Amiga's completely.

The CD32 was extremely popular, that fact of the matter is they were already too far gone fo the CD32 to pull them out of the hole. It would have if they could have produced enough.

All the Amiga sectors were running at a good to great profit...until of course Commodore went under.

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I\\\'d post something satirical, but I\\\'m afraid it might get used as genuine evidence in the Thendic Amiga trial!
 

Offline aardvark

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2003, 09:50:22 AM »
Yup. management and marketing.  Management never really understood the Amiga, they bought it out from under Jack Tramiel and Atari, who were || this close to buying Amiga from the start-up company that Jay Miner helped start.  Maybe Tramiel would have run it into the ground , too, but Management never understood the jewel that they had in their own engineering department and in Commodore MOS their chip making facility.  Apple used MOS chips in their Apple IIs Jack had a better understanding of marketing than Gould and Ali, but he was always more concerned about making it cheaper rather than better.  I've heard it said that if Commodore was to market sushi that they would advertise it as Cold, Dead, Raw Fish.  
I bought a 2000 just after they came out and I quickly bought a second disk drive for it as swapping floppies was a pain.  After a couple of years one of my kids stuffed paper in one of the drives, bending the heads and rendering it unrepairable at an affordable price.  But I thought well, high density drives were out for PCs so surely Commodore will bring them out for Amigas as well and then I'll buy one of those and install it instead.  Never happened.  Oh sure eventually they were available for 3000s and 4000s, but they could have sold a sheepfull of them to existing owners.  Processor upgrades for existing models could have been produced and sold like hotcakes if the price s were reasonable enough.  Could an AGA card been possible for the 2000 or 500s?  Maybe models like the 600 (should have had an 030 processor in it) should have been more expandable.  They never seemed to value the customers that would have been the easiest sell.  People who already had an Amiga.
They could have sold optical mice, joysticks, all kinds of upgrades, but the jewel was the Amiga OS and they could have sold that... to clone Amiga manufacturers.  When memory cost a fortune, Amigas didn't need much.  I only had one meg of memory for years and it wasn't until I installed a hard drive that suddenly I had apps that wouldn't run because of insufficient memory.  Just having the drive there soaked up a critical amount of memory.  My hard drive card had room for 8 more megs of memory though, and it was if I had died and gone to heaven with all that extra memory.
Commodore liked to use oddball proprietary standards like the 23 pin connectors that you could never buy anywhere else. Or GVP and its non standard simms.
Commodore spent a fortune setting up a division to target the educational market and then shut it down a couple of months later.  Sun wanted to rebadge A3000UX unix machines and sell them under its own name.  Didn't happen.  The CDTV was purposely kept out of the computer sales channel and marketed to stores to sell in their stereo departments, but with so little training, that salespeople barely knew how to change CDs or that it in fact was a computer and could have a keyboard.  The jerk they hired from IBM (responsible for the PC jr. no less) virtually shut down engineering development.  And of course the money they spent on PC clones, not only Commodore, but Escom, too.   :-x
 

Offline aardvark

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2003, 10:07:19 AM »
At one point Bill Gates wasn't all that interested in operating systems, he was more interested in applications, because that's where he thought the money was.  (Probably right, but they seem to make money on OSs, too  :-D ) For an interesting read about that, look here.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.11/es_apple_pr.html

(Couldn't seem to paste that one in as a URL fo some reason  :-? )
Seems to me that Apple made a lot of the same mistakes Commodore did, but at least they advertised and kept up with engineering.
The last thing that did in Commodore was that they were too fragmented.  Britain, Germany, and to a lesser extent Canada were doing all right, but the marketing division in the States were complete idiots.  Commodore was founded as a business machines company.. typewriters, adding machines, calculators.  If they kept Amigas only in the head office, maybe they would have realized some of the deficiencies in software and corrected it . Either by funding ports of Microsoft products, or keeping WordPerfect on board, getting Novell to support it and even Lotus or IBM.
But at one time Gould and Ali were numbers one and two respectively as the most highly paid CEOs in the computer world.  More than Bill Gates or the Chairmen of IBM, Compaq, Hewlit Packard, Novell or Sun.  There were lots of times when half their salaries spent  in the right place could have made all the difference.  My considerably more than 2 cents worth.  ;-)
 

Offline cockney_dave

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2003, 10:21:36 AM »
The Amiga's dead?

Piracy burst the Amiga bubble.
 

Offline vortexau

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2003, 07:16:13 PM »
Many have already told it quite well!

If you have never read it before, take the time to read An employee's reflection on how CBM killed the Amiga - written some time back by Ed Graner who was shamefully underpaid by CBM:
Quote
Unfortunately, many of the ones with Amiga skill and experience are also the ones who are willing to take the low pay, the lack of benefits and the constant lies from CBM. They are willing to only because they love the Amiga.They want to see it succeed. And conversely, Commodore has seen people like me put in 40-50 hour weeks and only turn in 30. They've seen the RPD put up with the lies and the discomfort of the position and their response is not one of gratitude, but one of contempt. And if one quits, then they know the Amiga is good enough to draw another enthusiast into the grinder to take that vacancy.

For those of us still working for Commodore, pity is in order. To those of you who are considering working for Commodore I have some advice: Just say NO to CBM.

 
 
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Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2003, 12:46:07 AM »
Not too dissimilar to how McDonald's operates.
 

Offline artman

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2003, 01:33:36 AM »
Killed off the Amiga?  Damn, mine seems to be full of life yet, fact is, I'm using it right now to access Amiga.org.  Every time she boots up, I jump up and down hollerin' "It's alive!  It's alive!", er' just kiddin'
 

Offline Minuous

Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2003, 01:36:57 AM »
Wing Commander and Ultima 6 both came out for the Amiga. And Ultima 6 is a classic, I don't see how it is inferior to the IBM version. Wing Commander came out too although I have not played that.

And Wolfenstein was and is crap, so I doubt it had much to do with it.
 

Offline Epyx

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Re: What killed off the Amiga?
« Reply #44 from previous page: October 19, 2003, 04:53:02 AM »
Ultima 6 did come out for the Amiga but here is the rub....

IBM

256 Colour
Fast..did I mention fast?

Amiga

32 Colour
Slow...as in molasses slow on a 68000 amiga

A shameful port that did not take any advantage of superior blitting on the amiga...it basically ported the CPU intense blitting routines of the IBM version. Which brings us to the other game Wing Commander...

It is also pitiful if compared to the IBM version...slow slow slow slow and again could have been soo much better.

Wolfenstein is crap by todays standards but at the time thousands upon thousands of Amiga gamers saw the drop dead gorgeous 3D (albeit pseudo 3d) 256 colour gameplay and sold their amigas. It can not be underestimated how this game (two years before doom) changed the gaming industry.