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AuthorTopic: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)  (Read 4630 times)

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Offline haywirepc

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2010, 11:11:01 PM »
Steve,
 
Thanks for bringing up more fantastic AROS news. Does this still only work on the windows hosted version, or will it work with aros native?

When will this be included in the icaros distribution?

What absolutely fantastic news... UAE integration will be seamless soon, and now screen dragging, oh and thanks to Steve, the catweasel will work on AROS now, so you can use all your old amiga floppies and games!
 
My thanks to Steve for always supporting aros so much, and also to the developers who keep making things possible.
 
A side note, I don't even know... Does OS4 do screen dragging?
I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven
 

Offline Franko

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2010, 11:15:39 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;591313
A side note, I don't even know... Does OS4 do screen dragging?
I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven


It does but OS4.0 even on a Blizzard060/PPC @ 60/240Mhz is like running an Amiga with only chipram... :(
 

Offline haywirepc

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2010, 11:32:22 PM »
Yes I thought I saw the screen dragging on a friends os4 machine and was severely dissapointed. It was like trying to use compiz on a computer that is 15 years old, it works but its not really usable.
 
+1 for AROS.
 
Oh and on a 3ghz pc, especially with a good graphics card and 4 gigs of ram...AROS pretty much flies, but hey
lets stick with a 3,000$ power pc computer instead of a 200$ surplus pc, sure.  
 
make that +2
 
:)
 
Steven
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2010, 11:40:34 PM »
Quote from: Franko;591311
Thanks for the kind offer, but I've never owned a PC (and after much debate recently I'm even more convinced I never will...), I was under the impression that Aros was a bit like Classic OS4.0 (only better) and could be run on Classic Amiga hardware. Looks like I'll have to do a bit more reading up about just what Aros is. :)

Thanks anyway... :)

Franko
AROS (currently) builds for the x86 (standard PC), the x86-64 (64bit Modern PCs) and a few PPC systems.

What you are thinking of and I am very excited about is the work Jason and Toni are doing to get it to build for Amiga hardware. And they have got quite far... once they have done it, you will be able replace you old 3.1 OS with AROS on your Amiga :)

-Edit- What do you use to post this? A PPC mac (vague memory of you saying this)?

Offline vidarh

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2010, 11:59:48 PM »
Quote from: Franko;591311
Thanks for the kind offer, but I've never owned a PC (and after much debate recently I'm even more convinced I never will...), I was under the impression that Aros was a bit like Classic OS4.0 (only better) and could be run on Classic Amiga hardware. Looks like I'll have to do a bit more reading up about just what Aros is. :)


I think I've seen somewhere that you use a Mac for the internet? If it's an Intel based Mac with OS X, you can test AROS on it either in VirtualBox or using the new Darwin "hosted" version (runs AROS as an application under OS X but this version is very new and so likely to not be as polished).

There's also a Classic Amiga version in the works, but it's far from ready (it just got to the point where it runs the boot shell a few days ago, but it's improving *very* rapidly - it's just a few weeks since it was totally non-functional).
 

Offline ognix

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2010, 12:01:18 AM »
Quote from: clusteruk;591264
Hi

Check out my new very short video please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKCHZFYj9Kk

Steve


You did a very nice job, Steve!
I mean making this short but "straight to the point" video presentation.


Just one thought from some comments I read...

One thing that we, amigans, generally suffer, is that we are not open minded (anymore).
Not everyone, of course, but most of us (I suffered from this as well).

We are so strongly and unrealistically tied with our beloved classic computer, we can't see and try other possibilities.
This is seen by the hardcore enthusiasts as an eretic behaviour: I understand, but it's not just 1 or 0, with me or against me; it's taking in consideration all facts, situation and possible "answers", and trying to find the best one, the one that fits well.

What you did, Steve, is melt the "angry face" against the x86 platform the hardcore Amiga enthusiast would have generally.  :)

Anyway AROS, for me, fits well!
 

Offline zylesea

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2010, 12:05:44 AM »
Quote from: haywirepc;591313

I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven


MorphOS itself doesn't offer sd, but there are 3rd party tools that offer sd. I don't use it, since Amiga-m is faster and more convenient IMHO. Also the RMB on the depth gadget offers  a thumbnail view of other open screens and allows simple selection.
The sd aproach with todays hw doesn't feel as smooth and natural as on the old hardware IMHO. Fancy stuff like a rotating cube for switching screens is also a nice gimmick, but not very useful.

Offline Karlos

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2010, 12:43:25 AM »
Quote from: Franko;591318
It does but OS4.0 even on a Blizzard060/PPC @ 60/240Mhz is like running an Amiga with only chipram... :(

Sorry, Franko, but I'm going to have to call BS here. I did use 4.0 for some time without RTG and it was in no way, shape or form, comparable to a "chip ram only" amiga.

For a start, screen dragging on AGA always worked just fine and uses the native chipset to do it in exactly the same way as all previous versions of the OS did, as you can see from these two screen grabs (right down to the number of ISD scanlines)








Above images (click for gallery entry) were taken from the days when I was beta testing and represents a quite early stage OS4. WB was 16-colour PAL Interlaced (externally flickerfixed) and DPaint HAM8 PAL Interlaced. Performance was absolutely fine on both.

Feel free to jump on the "OS4 is shite" bandwagon, but unless you applied precisely the same common sense approach to screen resolution/depth that you do on 3.x, you can't blame OS4 itself for AGA being a let down.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 12:45:32 AM by Karlos »
int p; // A
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 12:45:42 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;591338
Sorry, Franko, but I'm going to have to call BS here. I did use 4.0 for some time without RTG and it was in no way, shape or form, comparable to a "chip ram only" amiga.

For a start, screen dragging on AGA always worked just fine and uses the native chipset to do it in exactly the same way as all previous versions of the OS did, as you can see from these two screen grabs (right down to the number of ISD scanlines)








Above images were taken from the days when I was beta testing and represents a quite early stage OS4. WB was 16-colour PAL Interlaced (externally flickerfixed) and DPaint HAM8 PAL Interlaced. Performance was absolutely fine on both.

Feel free to jump on the "OS4 is shite" bandwagon, but unless you applied precisely the same common sense approach to screen resolution/depth that you do on 3.x, you can't blame OS4 itself for AGA being a let down.


OS4.0 always ran fine on my BPPC/200Mhz/256RAM with AGA.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 12:57:51 AM »
@Karlos
It doesnt look so fine as you say, I wouldnt call Franko´s statement BS.
But then I use a gfx card on my miggy.

Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg&feature=related
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 01:10:59 AM »
Quote from: Gulliver;591341
@Karlos
It doesnt look so fine as you say, I wouldnt call Franko´s statement BS.
But then I use a gfx card on my miggy.

Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg&feature=related


No, my point still stands. That video clearly shows AGA struggling to do on PPC what it could not do any better on 68K. So, how about using a sensible number of colours and turning off solid window dragging for starters? If you are using AGA, you have to compromise on these things. After all, how many people are using 256 colour 640x512 or higher AGA screenmodes with solid window dragging/resizing on 3.x on the same hardware?

You can't magically expect OS4 to make your chip ram and blitter "go faster". What's more, the PPC can't read from or write to chip ram any faster than the 68K could.

For me, OS4.0 on AGA using a 16 colour workbench with outline dragging/resizing all worked perfectly well. Next up, replacing the icon set with something designed for a low colour (non RGB) display helps enormously. Even things like using non antialiased fonts makes a difference. This is all just common sense if you are used to 3.x already (you wouldn't try to run things like powericons on AGA and expect it to be quick). These features are intended for use on an RTG display with proper chunky RGB modes, not a planar display on 18 year old hardware.
int p; // A
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 01:35:19 AM »
@Karlos
Well, I see your point now, but to tell you the truth, I was expecting a bit more (not a whole lot more) from OS4 for Classics, thinking it was running on the PPC side of a CyberPPC/BPPC.
 

Offline Cammy

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 01:39:06 AM »
Thanks for posting this awesome video, Steve! I just watched it on my Aros laptop (running Icaros 1.2.4) with the handy YouTube Monitor that's included.

I'm so glad one of my favourite and often-used features of classic AmigaOS is part of Aros now :) I tell you, it is actually annoying to grab the screen title bar and try dragging it, only for it to be locked in place. On my A1200 I use screen dragging to quickly check on the progress of a program or game that might be running behind Workbench while I still keep an eye on a chat window, or vice-versa, playing a game on a screen in front, but dragged down enough to show a chat window behind. After using Amiga OS as my main operating system for so long, these things come naturally to me (like multi-select menus and right-click cancel on dragging) so I'm very happy I'll be able to do this in Aros soon too! :)

Franko! Your Mac is a PC, but that just means it can run Aros! Aros is made by Amigans, for Amigans! If we want a feature added to it, we add it ourselves. We build and work together and welcome anyone who wants to help. This isn't a closed source OS like AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS, so the people decide its future, not one or two people. Aros was written from scratch to be as close as possible to OS3, but adding fixes and improvements along the way to make it much more modern. It's source-compatible with OS3, so if you have written a program on your Amiga you should be able to recompile it for Aros (well except for 68k Assembly stuff, but that'll run through the built-in JUAE emulation). In the last year or so, development on Aros has accelerated beyond our expectations, it's already fully usable for any software you'd use your classic Amiga for since it can run all the OS3 software as well as its own software. We have a modern web browser which has no problems displaying all those sites with CSS. We have a YouTube Monitor which you can watch YouTube videos through, and MPlayer which is an excellent movie and music player, it has lovely subtitle support which is great for me, and it's so fast flicking between windowed and full-screen mode. There's a lot more software being written for and ported to Aros, and the core of the OS itself is being improved all the time.

Aros is free for everyone to use! It runs on just about any regular PC, laptop or netbook. It runs on the Sam440 so people with those can dual-boot into AmigaOS 4.1.2 and Aros. It's being ported back to 68k Amigas, which wasn't possible before because no one had begun working on the Kickstart replacement yet, but that will be ready soon enough too! We'll be able to flash our own Aros Kickstart EPROMs (or use the built-in 1MB FlashROM in the upcoming ACA030 accelerators from Individual Computers) and run Aros natively on our classic hardware. Since Aros is further evolved than OS3, but should still run OS3 software seamlessly, this will be an incredible upgrade.

At the moment there are three ways to enjoy Aros, either in its pure form without any additional software from the nightly builds, or by using one of the two well-maintained distributions; Icaros Desktop and Broadway. Icaros includes heaps of programs, games and utilities already installed, ready to use as your new desktop OS. Broadway also includes programs and games, but is more media-oriented, and uses the cool new media front end AMC, which is a menu for browsing videos, music, games and more. It would be perfect for a media PC hooked up to an entertainment system, run by remote or wireless control pad.

You can download either of these distributions of Aros as a CD or DVD image which you just burn, stick in a PC and boot up. It can be run from within OSX, Linux or Windows, but it also runs natively, so you just reboot the PC and it should boot from the disc.

I personally can't afford a second hand G4 Mac or a new Sam or X1000, so I can't really try out the other Amiga Operating Systems as much as I want to try them all. But thanks to Aros, I still have the opportunity to run a modern Amiga OS through an old Acer laptop that was given to me, and an OEM netbook which was a Christmas present last year.

All it takes is a few clicks and a blank disc to try it out, and wouldn't you feel more at home using an Amiga OS with full access to the system and the sources than an overly simplified OS designed for consumers?
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http://www.aros-broadway.de
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 01:44:41 AM »
Quote from: Gulliver;591344
@Karlos
Well, I see your point now, but to tell you the truth, I was expecting a bit more (not a whole lot more) from OS4 for Classics, thinking it was running on the PPC side of a CyberPPC/BPPC.


I think it was a common expectation, but the PPC really can't do a lot for AGA. In fact, I seem to recall testing read/write access to Chip RAM in 3.x/WOS and observing it was actually slower (not by much) than the 040 was on the same card. Now, theoretically, there should be a bit more bandwidth for PPC if the 68K is not performing bus accesses, but even so, the Chip RAM access is cripplingly slow for PPC. When you think about how many instructions it could execute in the time it takes to read just 1 longword from a chip ram address, you'll understand.
int p; // A
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2010, 02:11:30 AM »
Quote from: Cammy;591345
Franko! Your Mac is a PC, but that just means it can run Aros! Aros is made by Amigans, for Amigans! If we want a feature added to it, we add it ourselves.


I think Franko's Mac is a G4 model rather than an x86 one. I know AROS PPC runs on the Sam, but does it support PPC Mac?
int p; // A