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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: clusteruk on November 12, 2010, 09:18:55 PM

Title: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 12, 2010, 09:18:55 PM
Hi

Check out my new very short video please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKCHZFYj9Kk

Steve
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: nicholas on November 12, 2010, 09:32:12 PM
Very nice indeed! :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: desiv on November 12, 2010, 09:33:38 PM
OK, that's nice...
That's always been one of my personal (i.e. My OWN, not anything based on anything other than my own feelings; not saying anyone else's definition is wrong!!!) requirements for an OS being "Amiga."...  ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 12, 2010, 09:47:55 PM
Interesting, Im not big or very knowledgeable on Aros, but I assume from the video it means that screen dragging has only just been achieved on Aros ?

If so then what else does Aros currently lack at the moment and when is it likely to become a fully functioning OS... :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: runequester on November 12, 2010, 10:14:13 PM
Very nice :)

Does it do different resolutions on each screen ?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: bloodline on November 12, 2010, 10:30:33 PM
Quote from: Franko;591277
Interesting, Im not big or very knowledgeable on Aros, but I assume from the video it means that screen dragging has only just been achieved on Aros ?

If so then what else does Aros currently lack at the moment and when is it likely to become a fully functioning OS... :)
It's already fully functioning, now is just a case of adding the feature that people want... download one of the distributions burn up a CD an play with it :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 12, 2010, 10:39:07 PM
Quote from: runequester;591283
Very nice :)

Does it do different resolutions on each screen ?


I have been asked this question a lot and I removed part of the video that showed this just to introduce the new feature. I will do another next week to show all parts of the functionality with multiple screens diferent resolutions etc.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: runequester on November 12, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: clusteruk;591297
I have been asked this question a lot and I removed part of the video that showed this just to introduce the new feature. I will do another next week to show all parts of the functionality with multiple screens diferent resolutions etc.


awesome :) Can't wait to see it
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 12, 2010, 10:43:35 PM
Quote from: Franko;591277
Interesting, Im not big or very knowledgeable on Aros, but I assume from the video it means that screen dragging has only just been achieved on Aros ?

If so then what else does Aros currently lack at the moment and when is it likely to become a fully functioning OS... :)


Aros has most functionality needed now, when ICAROS 1.2.5 is ready, download it and try it, there is no charge except for the hardware. If you send me a 4gb memory stick I can set it up for you and post back to try on any pc.

Steve
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: save2600 on November 12, 2010, 10:44:23 PM
Proper screen dragging... sweet!  I really should dust off one of these WinTel boxes and play around with Aros one of these days.

Looks like with the help of Icaros, one has the capability to turn their WinTel box into something fun. I really need to look into this stuff more.

Not trying to start a flame war, but wondering what people prefer here:

Aros - Needs Windoze booted first and then Aros program?
Icaros - looks to be a self-booting Aros environment?
MorphOS - This I've played around with, nice faux/enahnced AmigaOS - too bad the Apple conversions done for it lately are dancing around all the models I own  :(
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: TheGoose on November 12, 2010, 10:46:35 PM
AROS is looking pretty damn cool.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: bloodline on November 12, 2010, 10:57:20 PM
Quote from: save2600;591300
Proper screen dragging... sweet!  I really should dust off one of these WinTel boxes and play around with Aros one of these days.

Looks like with the help of Icaros, one has the capability to turn their WinTel box into something fun. I really need to look into this stuff more.

Not trying to start a flame war, but wondering what people prefer here:

Aros - Needs Windoze booted first and then Aros program?


Just want to point out that AROS has never needed Windows to boot (in fact it couldn't until a year ago, be hosted in Windows)... I have only ever used the x86 native (self booting version) for the past 10 years.

Quote

Icaros - looks to be a self-booting Aros environment?


Icaros is a distribution, which comes with Apps and has the preferences set up in a certain way. This is one of the nicest ways to try AROS... but you can download the nightly builds which are more raw (i.e. like AOS 3.1), but work just the same.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: save2600 on November 12, 2010, 11:01:45 PM
Quote from: bloodline;591306
Just want to point out that AROS has never needed Windows to boot (in fact it couldn't until a year ago, be hosted in Windows)... I have only ever used the x86 native (self booting version) for the past 10 years.

Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood what you said previously in response #6  :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: eb15 on November 12, 2010, 11:04:33 PM
Screen dragging was functional under AROS windows hosted version before.
Its nice to see screen dragging has been achieved in AROS nouveau driver for people who want to run AROS native with hardware accelerated graphics.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 12, 2010, 11:08:32 PM
Quote from: clusteruk;591299
Aros has most functionality needed now, when ICAROS 1.2.5 is ready, download it and try it, there is no charge except for the hardware. If you send me a 4gb memory stick I can set it up for you and post back to try on any pc.

Steve


Thanks for the kind offer, but I've never owned a PC (and after much debate recently I'm even more convinced I never will...), I was under the impression that Aros was a bit like Classic OS4.0 (only better) and could be run on Classic Amiga hardware. Looks like I'll have to do a bit more reading up about just what Aros is. :)

Thanks anyway... :)

Franko
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: haywirepc on November 12, 2010, 11:11:01 PM
Steve,
 
Thanks for bringing up more fantastic AROS news. Does this still only work on the windows hosted version, or will it work with aros native?

When will this be included in the icaros distribution?

What absolutely fantastic news... UAE integration will be seamless soon, and now screen dragging, oh and thanks to Steve, the catweasel will work on AROS now, so you can use all your old amiga floppies and games!
 
My thanks to Steve for always supporting aros so much, and also to the developers who keep making things possible.
 
A side note, I don't even know... Does OS4 do screen dragging?
I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 12, 2010, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;591313
A side note, I don't even know... Does OS4 do screen dragging?
I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven


It does but OS4.0 even on a Blizzard060/PPC @ 60/240Mhz is like running an Amiga with only chipram... :(
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: haywirepc on November 12, 2010, 11:32:22 PM
Yes I thought I saw the screen dragging on a friends os4 machine and was severely dissapointed. It was like trying to use compiz on a computer that is 15 years old, it works but its not really usable.
 
+1 for AROS.
 
Oh and on a 3ghz pc, especially with a good graphics card and 4 gigs of ram...AROS pretty much flies, but hey
lets stick with a 3,000$ power pc computer instead of a 200$ surplus pc, sure.  
 
make that +2
 
:)
 
Steven
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: bloodline on November 12, 2010, 11:40:34 PM
Quote from: Franko;591311
Thanks for the kind offer, but I've never owned a PC (and after much debate recently I'm even more convinced I never will...), I was under the impression that Aros was a bit like Classic OS4.0 (only better) and could be run on Classic Amiga hardware. Looks like I'll have to do a bit more reading up about just what Aros is. :)

Thanks anyway... :)

Franko
AROS (currently) builds for the x86 (standard PC), the x86-64 (64bit Modern PCs) and a few PPC systems.

What you are thinking of and I am very excited about is the work Jason and Toni are doing to get it to build for Amiga hardware. And they have got quite far... once they have done it, you will be able replace you old 3.1 OS with AROS on your Amiga :)

-Edit- What do you use to post this? A PPC mac (vague memory of you saying this)?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: vidarh on November 12, 2010, 11:59:48 PM
Quote from: Franko;591311
Thanks for the kind offer, but I've never owned a PC (and after much debate recently I'm even more convinced I never will...), I was under the impression that Aros was a bit like Classic OS4.0 (only better) and could be run on Classic Amiga hardware. Looks like I'll have to do a bit more reading up about just what Aros is. :)


I think I've seen somewhere that you use a Mac for the internet? If it's an Intel based Mac with OS X, you can test AROS on it either in VirtualBox or using the new Darwin "hosted" version (runs AROS as an application under OS X but this version is very new and so likely to not be as polished).

There's also a Classic Amiga version in the works, but it's far from ready (it just got to the point where it runs the boot shell a few days ago, but it's improving *very* rapidly - it's just a few weeks since it was totally non-functional).
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: ognix on November 13, 2010, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: clusteruk;591264
Hi

Check out my new very short video please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKCHZFYj9Kk

Steve


You did a very nice job, Steve!
I mean making this short but "straight to the point" video presentation.


Just one thought from some comments I read...

One thing that we, amigans, generally suffer, is that we are not open minded (anymore).
Not everyone, of course, but most of us (I suffered from this as well).

We are so strongly and unrealistically tied with our beloved classic computer, we can't see and try other possibilities.
This is seen by the hardcore enthusiasts as an eretic behaviour: I understand, but it's not just 1 or 0, with me or against me; it's taking in consideration all facts, situation and possible "answers", and trying to find the best one, the one that fits well.

What you did, Steve, is melt the "angry face" against the x86 platform the hardcore Amiga enthusiast would have generally.  :)

Anyway AROS, for me, fits well!
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: zylesea on November 13, 2010, 12:05:44 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;591313

I think MorphOS does already, dosn't it?
 
Steven


MorphOS itself doesn't offer sd, but there are 3rd party tools that offer sd. I don't use it, since Amiga-m is faster and more convenient IMHO. Also the RMB on the depth gadget offers  a thumbnail view of other open screens and allows simple selection.
The sd aproach with todays hw doesn't feel as smooth and natural as on the old hardware IMHO. Fancy stuff like a rotating cube for switching screens is also a nice gimmick, but not very useful.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 13, 2010, 12:43:25 AM
Quote from: Franko;591318
It does but OS4.0 even on a Blizzard060/PPC @ 60/240Mhz is like running an Amiga with only chipram... :(

Sorry, Franko, but I'm going to have to call BS here. I did use 4.0 for some time without RTG and it was in no way, shape or form, comparable to a "chip ram only" amiga.

For a start, screen dragging on AGA always worked just fine and uses the native chipset to do it in exactly the same way as all previous versions of the OS did, as you can see from these two screen grabs (right down to the number of ISD scanlines)

(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/large/1_old_os4_aga1.jpg)
 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3135)


(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/large/1_old_os4_aga2.jpg)
 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3136)

Above images (click for gallery entry) were taken from the days when I was beta testing and represents a quite early stage OS4. WB was 16-colour PAL Interlaced (externally flickerfixed) and DPaint HAM8 PAL Interlaced. Performance was absolutely fine on both.

Feel free to jump on the "OS4 is shite" bandwagon, but unless you applied precisely the same common sense approach to screen resolution/depth that you do on 3.x, you can't blame OS4 itself for AGA being a let down.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: nicholas on November 13, 2010, 12:45:42 AM
Quote from: Karlos;591338
Sorry, Franko, but I'm going to have to call BS here. I did use 4.0 for some time without RTG and it was in no way, shape or form, comparable to a "chip ram only" amiga.

For a start, screen dragging on AGA always worked just fine and uses the native chipset to do it in exactly the same way as all previous versions of the OS did, as you can see from these two screen grabs (right down to the number of ISD scanlines)

(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/large/1_old_os4_aga1.jpg)
 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3135)


(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/810/large/1_old_os4_aga2.jpg)
 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3136)

Above images were taken from the days when I was beta testing and represents a quite early stage OS4. WB was 16-colour PAL Interlaced (externally flickerfixed) and DPaint HAM8 PAL Interlaced. Performance was absolutely fine on both.

Feel free to jump on the "OS4 is shite" bandwagon, but unless you applied precisely the same common sense approach to screen resolution/depth that you do on 3.x, you can't blame OS4 itself for AGA being a let down.


OS4.0 always ran fine on my BPPC/200Mhz/256RAM with AGA.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Gulliver on November 13, 2010, 12:57:51 AM
@Karlos
It doesnt look so fine as you say, I wouldnt call Franko´s statement BS.
But then I use a gfx card on my miggy.

Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg&feature=related
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 13, 2010, 01:10:59 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;591341
@Karlos
It doesnt look so fine as you say, I wouldnt call Franko´s statement BS.
But then I use a gfx card on my miggy.

Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DHpRYQj1hg&feature=related


No, my point still stands. That video clearly shows AGA struggling to do on PPC what it could not do any better on 68K. So, how about using a sensible number of colours and turning off solid window dragging for starters? If you are using AGA, you have to compromise on these things. After all, how many people are using 256 colour 640x512 or higher AGA screenmodes with solid window dragging/resizing on 3.x on the same hardware?

You can't magically expect OS4 to make your chip ram and blitter "go faster". What's more, the PPC can't read from or write to chip ram any faster than the 68K could.

For me, OS4.0 on AGA using a 16 colour workbench with outline dragging/resizing all worked perfectly well. Next up, replacing the icon set with something designed for a low colour (non RGB) display helps enormously. Even things like using non antialiased fonts makes a difference. This is all just common sense if you are used to 3.x already (you wouldn't try to run things like powericons on AGA and expect it to be quick). These features are intended for use on an RTG display with proper chunky RGB modes, not a planar display on 18 year old hardware.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Gulliver on November 13, 2010, 01:35:19 AM
@Karlos
Well, I see your point now, but to tell you the truth, I was expecting a bit more (not a whole lot more) from OS4 for Classics, thinking it was running on the PPC side of a CyberPPC/BPPC.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Cammy on November 13, 2010, 01:39:06 AM
Thanks for posting this awesome video, Steve! I just watched it on my Aros laptop (running Icaros 1.2.4) with the handy YouTube Monitor that's included.

I'm so glad one of my favourite and often-used features of classic AmigaOS is part of Aros now :) I tell you, it is actually annoying to grab the screen title bar and try dragging it, only for it to be locked in place. On my A1200 I use screen dragging to quickly check on the progress of a program or game that might be running behind Workbench while I still keep an eye on a chat window, or vice-versa, playing a game on a screen in front, but dragged down enough to show a chat window behind. After using Amiga OS as my main operating system for so long, these things come naturally to me (like multi-select menus and right-click cancel on dragging) so I'm very happy I'll be able to do this in Aros soon too! :)

Franko! Your Mac is a PC, but that just means it can run Aros! Aros is made by Amigans, for Amigans! If we want a feature added to it, we add it ourselves. We build and work together and welcome anyone who wants to help. This isn't a closed source OS like AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS, so the people decide its future, not one or two people. Aros was written from scratch to be as close as possible to OS3, but adding fixes and improvements along the way to make it much more modern. It's source-compatible with OS3, so if you have written a program on your Amiga you should be able to recompile it for Aros (well except for 68k Assembly stuff, but that'll run through the built-in JUAE emulation). In the last year or so, development on Aros has accelerated beyond our expectations, it's already fully usable for any software you'd use your classic Amiga for since it can run all the OS3 software as well as its own software. We have a modern web browser which has no problems displaying all those sites with CSS. We have a YouTube Monitor which you can watch YouTube videos through, and MPlayer which is an excellent movie and music player, it has lovely subtitle support which is great for me, and it's so fast flicking between windowed and full-screen mode. There's a lot more software being written for and ported to Aros, and the core of the OS itself is being improved all the time.

Aros is free for everyone to use! It runs on just about any regular PC, laptop or netbook. It runs on the Sam440 so people with those can dual-boot into AmigaOS 4.1.2 and Aros. It's being ported back to 68k Amigas, which wasn't possible before because no one had begun working on the Kickstart replacement yet, but that will be ready soon enough too! We'll be able to flash our own Aros Kickstart EPROMs (or use the built-in 1MB FlashROM in the upcoming ACA030 accelerators from Individual Computers) and run Aros natively on our classic hardware. Since Aros is further evolved than OS3, but should still run OS3 software seamlessly, this will be an incredible upgrade.

At the moment there are three ways to enjoy Aros, either in its pure form without any additional software from the nightly builds, or by using one of the two well-maintained distributions; Icaros Desktop and Broadway. Icaros includes heaps of programs, games and utilities already installed, ready to use as your new desktop OS. Broadway also includes programs and games, but is more media-oriented, and uses the cool new media front end AMC, which is a menu for browsing videos, music, games and more. It would be perfect for a media PC hooked up to an entertainment system, run by remote or wireless control pad.

You can download either of these distributions of Aros as a CD or DVD image which you just burn, stick in a PC and boot up. It can be run from within OSX, Linux or Windows, but it also runs natively, so you just reboot the PC and it should boot from the disc.

I personally can't afford a second hand G4 Mac or a new Sam or X1000, so I can't really try out the other Amiga Operating Systems as much as I want to try them all. But thanks to Aros, I still have the opportunity to run a modern Amiga OS through an old Acer laptop that was given to me, and an OEM netbook which was a Christmas present last year.

All it takes is a few clicks and a blank disc to try it out, and wouldn't you feel more at home using an Amiga OS with full access to the system and the sources than an overly simplified OS designed for consumers?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 13, 2010, 01:44:41 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;591344
@Karlos
Well, I see your point now, but to tell you the truth, I was expecting a bit more (not a whole lot more) from OS4 for Classics, thinking it was running on the PPC side of a CyberPPC/BPPC.


I think it was a common expectation, but the PPC really can't do a lot for AGA. In fact, I seem to recall testing read/write access to Chip RAM in 3.x/WOS and observing it was actually slower (not by much) than the 040 was on the same card. Now, theoretically, there should be a bit more bandwidth for PPC if the 68K is not performing bus accesses, but even so, the Chip RAM access is cripplingly slow for PPC. When you think about how many instructions it could execute in the time it takes to read just 1 longword from a chip ram address, you'll understand.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 13, 2010, 02:11:30 AM
Quote from: Cammy;591345
Franko! Your Mac is a PC, but that just means it can run Aros! Aros is made by Amigans, for Amigans! If we want a feature added to it, we add it ourselves.


I think Franko's Mac is a G4 model rather than an x86 one. I know AROS PPC runs on the Sam, but does it support PPC Mac?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: nicholas on November 13, 2010, 02:18:00 AM
Quote from: Karlos;591349
I think Franko's Mac is a G4 model rather than an x86 one. I know AROS PPC runs on the Sam, but does it support PPC Mac?


Hosted on OSX or Linux only atm.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
@ Bloodline
I use an old iMacG4 PPC 800Hhz with OS X 10.4.11, it's good for browsing the net (except for videos, which are more like slide shows on it).
It would be nice though if Aros does become available as an alternative OS for the classic side of things as I would definitely like to give it a try... :)

@ Cammy
I know my Mac's a PC but from what I believe it's too old, slow & incompatible to run Aros on, as much as I dislike Windows I can't say OS X on a mac is that much better now I've experienced it... :)

@ Karlos
Sorry but with OS4.0 on my main Amiga I'll have to disagree with you big time on this one. Although I've set up a whole 250Gb partition and can easily boot straight into it, on my Amiga it's just way too slow to be usable for me. I only use it on an 640 x 512, 32 Colour screen, you can't really go down to 640 x 256  on it as most of the progs written for it tend to have been written for larger screen sizes than this.

The only thing I use it for these days is to create ISO file's for CD's & DVDs using the excellent AmiDVD, but that only because I still haven't got round to finishing my own ISO creating software yet, I only ever use my own DVD burning software on the 68K side cos it burns faster than AmiDVD does on the OS 4 PPC side (and it also burns faster than my iMac, strangely enough)

I'll need to make a video of it to show you what I mean when I say it's too slow, I've done my best to tweak it but nothing I've done seems to speed it up at all, plus it's a bit flakey with my FastATA MKIII controller not to mention the amount of errors I get trying to run older software on it.

You can call it BS or whatever you like and claim I'm jumping on the OS4.0 is shite bandwagon, but I can only give you my opinions based on my own personal experience.

I run OS 3.5 on a 128 colour screen on the 68k side and it runs rings around my OS4.0 set up but whatever the reason for mines being so slow it doesn't really matter as I can do all I wan't with an Amiga quite happily from the 68K side under OS3.x, reckon we'll have to agree to disagree on this one Karlos... :)

I ain't putting OS4.0 down in fact I've said in a thread elsewhere on here that I'd like to buy OS4.1 Classic when it comes out to see if thats any better. As for Aros I congratulate and applaud all the folk who have and are developing it and wish them well, but I think you'll have gathered by now that I'm a bit of an old dinosaur and stuck in my ways when it comes to computing, it's just simply a matter of my own personal taste and the fact that for the most part I'm perfectly happy with what I can achieve on my Amiga... :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: GobanToba on November 13, 2010, 02:27:48 AM
@Cammy

Wow, great post.  Thanks for taking the time to put all that information up.

I just have to agree with the screen dragging comments.  It's a great feature to have and Amiga was about multitasking.  Having multiple screens is just another way for us to take advantage of that multitasking.

There are lots of companies out there trying to work on a "3D" desktop, most of which are just screens on a cube, you hit a hotkey and the cube rotates to the next screen.  But, really, that's was screen dragging is, a 3D desktop.  You have your desktop and you can move windows in 2D, but more screens adds more dimension.  Don't know if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Cammy on November 13, 2010, 02:39:36 AM
Sorry Franko, for some reason I was under the impression you had an Intel Mac, my mistake!

I had no interest in PCs myself until Aros came along. I'm glad I got one eventually though, especially for the fact that I used it over 30,000 feet in the air the other day on the way to and from Adelaide. I played some games, used some art software and watched a couple of videos through my little A1600 Aros netbook.

Amiga computing in the clouds, in the food court, on a bus, going camping, anywhere I like.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: coldfish on November 13, 2010, 02:42:29 AM
AROS just keeps getting better.  I have a spare laptop that's asking for some Amiga love.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: redrumloa on November 13, 2010, 02:46:31 AM
Quote from: clusteruk;591297
I have been asked this question a lot and I removed part of the video that showed this just to introduce the new feature. I will do another next week to show all parts of the functionality with multiple screens diferent resolutions etc.

/me falls down and hits head on floor
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2010, 02:46:52 AM
@ Cammy
Seems like a pretty neat & cool set up to me, I don't think they'd allow me to lug all my Amiga stuff onto a plane and if they did it would probably cost a fortune for a ticket... :lol:
but I'll never know, cos I'm not allowed to fly (or go deep sea diving) in case my head explodes... :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: HenryCase on November 13, 2010, 02:56:48 AM
Franko, have you tried MorphOS? It's free to try out (only need to pay for a licence if you like it), and it runs on G4 Macs (some of them at least):
http://www.morphos-team.net/downloads.html
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Franko on November 13, 2010, 04:03:33 AM
@ HenryCase

Just checked out the site you gave, doesn't look like it will run on this old iMac according to the GFX cards needed/supported... :(
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: amigadave on November 13, 2010, 05:13:01 AM
Quote from: clusteruk;591297
I have been asked this question a lot and I removed part of the video that showed this just to introduce the new feature. I will do another next week to show all parts of the functionality with multiple screens diferent resolutions etc.


Can you include an HTML5 version for YouTube, or do they do their own conversions automatically for their beta testing of the HTML5 player instead of needing Flash?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: amigadave on November 13, 2010, 05:43:33 AM
Quote from: bloodline;591322
AROS (currently) builds for the x86 (standard PC), the x86-64 (64bit Modern PCs) and a few PPC systems.

What you are thinking of and I am very excited about is the work Jason and Toni are doing to get it to build for Amiga hardware. And they have got quite far... once they have done it, you will be able replace you old 3.1 OS with AROS on your Amiga :)

-Edit- What do you use to post this? A PPC mac (vague memory of you saying this)?



Will the performance of AROS 68k be anything more than a curiosity?  How many of AROS advanced features will be carried over to the 68k version I wonder?

I like MorphOS2.6 on dirt cheap hardware, as it runs quite fast and well, but must admit that the progress on AROS is getting more interesting every week, and unless there is a change in the rate of OS advancement, new software titles being written for, or ported to MorphOS2.x and/or an eventual port of MorphOS2.x to better hardware in a year or two, I have little doubt that AROS will eventually surpass all other Next Gen Amiga experiences.  Might take a year or two to happen, but unless something changes in the MorphOS camp (applies to the AmigaOS4.x camp too IMO), AROSx64 will probably come out on top eventually. (just like I had hoped that Linux would over take Windows some day in the distant future, but that wish seems to be taking much longer than I had hoped, so maybe I will be wrong about AROSx64 too)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: vidarh on November 13, 2010, 06:38:50 AM
Quote from: amigadave;591392
Will the performance of AROS 68k be anything more than a curiosity?  How many of AROS advanced features will be carried over to the 68k version I wonder?


Depends on whether many classic developers care about it once it's working, I guess. Or how many of the other AROS devs that will care about optimizing things. I know there are enhancements to the console handler and device I can do to speed things up on classic very easily, for example. A large part of it will depend on how many people actually show any interest in running AROS on classics (or in UAE) - it's always more motivating to work on these things once people are actually using them :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: mbrantley on November 13, 2010, 10:12:17 AM
This is great, Stephen! I have always considered screen dragging an essential, distinguishing part of the Amiga experience. I look forward to dragging screens on my little iMica.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 13, 2010, 10:29:35 AM
@all

Thanks for these great comments and to Cammy for the great post explaining Aros better than I could have. There is a lot more coming for Aros, seriously, as for Arosx64 I am not that bothered for now because I cannot fill up 1gb of ram let alone more than 3.5gb so it is not an issue. However, it will come along when it is ready.

My biggest excitement will be when Emumiga is complete, this will give us transparent 68k emulation like on OS4 and MorphOS, at the moment only the 68k Clock runs but this is an amazing acheivement because of all the systems it remaps to Aros and emulates the basic 68k calls.

http://Emumiga.com

As they say the future is bright   :-)

@Marko

I love the fact that you are still using classic Amiga's to do most of your day to day computing needs. I do not consider you a dinosaur, I sit here every day looking at my beautiful A3000 wishing I could afford an 060 for her and get the network working and be able to browse on her. But for now I use my scrap heap nvidia Aros pc.

Marko, check out the end of this video, see what my A1000 can do :-P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYacSfo7ExU

Thanks to all.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 13, 2010, 10:29:58 AM
Quote
@ Karlos
Sorry but with OS4.0 on my main Amiga I'll have to disagree with you big time on this one. Although I've set up a whole 250Gb partition and can easily boot straight into it, on my Amiga it's just way too slow to be usable for me. I only use it on an 640 x 512, 32 Colour screen, you can't really go down to 640 x 256 on it as most of the progs written for it tend to have been written for larger screen sizes than this.

At the risk of remaining off topic (sorry Stephen), just using 32 colours isn't enough. The gradients and 32-bit icons are no sinecure for AGA.

As I said, I used it with a basic 640x512x16 (more with overscan) display, turned off solid window sizing/moving, replaced the icons with palette based ones, used only simple fonts (not the anti-aliased ones) and turned down the shading and other visual effects and the display was just as snappy as it was on the 68K/3.x at the same resolution. Beyond that, almost everything else was faster (especially having converted the filesystem from FFS to SFS). My blizzard, like yours, has a 240MHz CPU, so it seems reasonable to assume that whatever it is that's making your installation run like treacle isn't necessarily representative.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: ognix on November 13, 2010, 09:01:48 PM
Quote from: zylesea;591328

MorphOS itself doesn't offer sd, but there are 3rd party tools that offer sd. I don't use it, since Amiga-m is faster and more convenient IMHO. Also the RMB on the depth gadget offers  a thumbnail view of other open screens and allows simple selection.
The sd aproach with todays hw doesn't feel as smooth and natural as on the old hardware IMHO. Fancy stuff like a rotating cube for switching screens is also a nice gimmick, but not very useful.


Hey!  :)
I didn't know MOS (with third party software) had this capability: I mean not just screen dragging but thumbnails for other screens.
In fact, after my previous post, I thought about screen dragging, its usefulness and a proper evolution.
And it came to my mind the option of having thumbnail view of open screens by right-mouse-button clicking on the depth gadget!

I think it's a very cool and useful way to move through screens (together with Amiga-M shortcut): we do not have to copy from other platforms! (Vista, Win7, Linux)

Let's implement it on AROS too!  :D

Hope you'll agree...

P.S. Falling on the ignorant side: in fact I didn't know about it on MOS because I didn't try it, but I don't have proper hardware to run it.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: bloodline on November 14, 2010, 12:37:48 PM
Yet another vid of screen dragging showing 3D graphics... rather fun :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY8mWxwzH5o
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 14, 2010, 01:43:37 PM
Quote from: bloodline;591646
Yet another vid of screen dragging showing 3D graphics... rather fun :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY8mWxwzH5o


Great video that one, beat me too the full version :-)

Screen dragging is amazing and even though not as needed as the early day when it allowed high res tool kit over a Ham screen like brilliance, even now it is very useful and a great demo.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: paolone on November 18, 2010, 04:34:55 PM
Screen dragging might be less useful today than it was 25 years ago, however is one of the unique features Amiga had, so I am really excited for the fact it has finally landed on native AROSland too.

Said so, I wouldn't expect AROS to run better than AmigaOS 3.1 on classic hardware: with some luck it will be not too much slower, but don't forget that 1) AROS won't have the "optimized in assembler" parts, for simple portability reasons, and 2) AROS is much more advanced, in many parts, to the OS that inspired it. More advanced means also new features that will require more porcessor grunt. In a nutshell, I think AROS on classic hardware will be something more than a curiosity, but the real uses for it will come from UAE installations and clones like the Natami or the Minimig, where there is more freedom about confugrations. Don't forget, too, that people using PPC accelerated cards will need to write software to handle them, or at least recompile the whole OS to take advantage of them.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: persia on November 18, 2010, 08:03:35 PM
What use does screen dragging have today (outside of classic Amigas)?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: kolla on November 18, 2010, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: persia;592870
What use does screen dragging have today (outside of classic Amigas)?


What use does it have on classic Amiga systems? There's your answer ;)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 18, 2010, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: kolla;592871
What use does it have on classic Amiga systems? There's your answer ;)


On CRT, I always preferred it to flipping screens as it didn't switch sync if the revealed screen was not in the same resolution as the foremost one.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: takemehomegrandma on November 18, 2010, 09:36:12 PM
Quote from: zylesea;591328
MorphOS itself doesn't offer sd, but there are 3rd party tools that offer sd. I don't use it, since Amiga-m is faster and more convenient IMHO. Also the RMB on the depth gadget offers  a thumbnail view of other open screens and allows simple selection.
The sd aproach with todays hw doesn't feel as smooth and natural as on the old hardware IMHO. Fancy stuff like a rotating cube for switching screens is also a nice gimmick, but not very useful.


Yeah, I never bothered with installing that screen dragging stuff on MorphOS. Frankly, it must be one of the most overly hyped and utterly useless so called "features" of Amiga, ever! Whatever real use it might have had 20 years ago, it's completely gone today. It's a gimmick at best, and quite pointless even for a gimmick. I don't want to piss on the parade here, but surely there must be better stuff to spend development time on than this?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: clusteruk on November 18, 2010, 10:20:00 PM
@takemehomegrandma

Sorry, but could not disagree more. Yes with the screens we have it is not as important now, but it is a great thing to have for general use. With Amiga M and dragging screens this is now a nice improvement.

Some like, some do not, but at least both groups are happy now.

Only improvement I would like now is like Windows7 previews at bottom of screen but I am happy to wait for that, as this will come no doubt.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: persia on November 19, 2010, 12:28:38 AM
So it's just a neat trick with no real use?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: bloodline on November 19, 2010, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: persia;592941
So it's just a neat trick with no real use?
Which sums up all the AmigaOS clones... But we still love them :)
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: kolla on November 19, 2010, 02:02:57 AM
Quote from: persia;592941
So it's just a neat trick with no real use?


Ever used Brilliance or SCALA?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: skurk on November 19, 2010, 10:13:15 AM
I guess screen dragging will be difficult once you have different screen modes?
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Hattig on November 19, 2010, 11:03:45 AM
Quote from: skurk;593004
I guess screen dragging will be difficult once you have different screen modes?


I don't know how Aros is performing Screen dragging, but if it is doing it via OpenGL (each screen is a texture) then different resolution screens could be scaled (with trilinear filtering) to be the correct size behind the front screen.
Title: Re: Aros has a new trick Video, don't miss it :-)
Post by: Karlos on November 19, 2010, 11:46:50 AM
I finally watched the video all the way through and Stephen's closing "this is what made me fall in love with the Amiga in the first place" remark reminds me of the first time I demonstrated it to a friend that at the time had a 386SX :-)