Open Amiga - Defining the Standards

[Kees]

"Open Amiga is an effort to create a standard for the Amiga that developers and users alike can
use in their quest for the perfect Amiga platform. This standard is intended to minimize the
programming effort needed to port between the 3 current Amiga platforms, Amiga OS 4, AROS and MorphOS."

Read more at http://openamiga.tk/ or check out the AO Thread ...

[System]

All contributions are welcome, and any time / talent donated is especially appreciated.  This is OUR project as a COMMUNITY.  The more we all get involved, the better.

[yssing]

I was thinking OpenGL or MESA.

Which one is supported most in AOS ??

[bloodline]

I wish I knew more about MESA, but I was under the impression that is was just a derivative of OpenGL... thus OpenGL would make sense as the API standard.

I will look up MESA as soon as I get some free time.

Side Note: Given that OpenGL is the standard across all platforms and is an integral part of SDL, it will have to be supported wether we like it or not.  :-)


-Edit- Yup, MESA does use the OpenGL API, so by supporting OpenGL we include MESA  (in fact MESA might even become the standard implementation of the API across the platforms as it's free...):-D

Linq
http://www.mesa3d.org/

[Rodney]

Its a good idea, but it must be done properly. I also wonder if it will work, or have the desired effect. For that to happen, it must be implemented right. But i still wonder if the AOS4 and MorphOS teams will want anything to do with it.

As AmigaOS and MorphOS grow, their going to grow appart, and the trouble of mainting system wide libraries that are compliant with this standard is just going to be come a hassel.

Basicly, whats going to happen is, whilst AmigaOS and MorphOS advance and leave their old libraries in favour of new one, their going to just have to keep them around so people can easily port their software. Not going to happen.

Plus, why do we need this when all these OSes can just support POSIX and then, not only make it possible to port between the 3 main AmigaOS but, between those and all other operating system compliant with POSIX.

So while its a good idea, i dont think the community will adopt it, and i think we should put more effort into making all parties aware of the great benefits of POSIX compliance, rather then our own flavour.

Theres already a standard for Operating Systems, lets not creat another one. For me, it too limited. Limited to AmigaOS and clones!! Use POSIX it opens us upto the world and a huge range of software. Eg, if AmigaOS was POSIX compliant, we may not have our browser trouble.

[alx]

At the moment, the combined userbase of AOS, MOS and AROS is small - having a set of guidelines for portablility should mean that we can pool our apps.  Unfortunately I have to agree that the three will diverge - AOS merging with the DE, MOS using the QBox, and AROS doing someting else once perfect AOS compatibility has been achieved.  But hopefully by that point each will have enough users to proceed their own way.  In the meantime, Open Amiga should benifit everyone, and not affect coders badly.

I don't think that we should aim for complete POSIX complience - I don't know much about it, but if everyone coded for POSIX wouldn't we just be better off ditching AOS/MOS/AROS :-?

[bloodline]

POSIX it totslly irelevant for this disscussion, other than Openamiga needs to define a standard for it.

The API's that openamiga covers have nothing to do with what POSIX covers.

POSIX, is about tasks, memory, threads, stdio, etc... kernel stuff...

Openamiga is about gfx, audio, networking, 3D, MEdia layers.. etc...

[bloodline]

Witha ll due repect, I don;t see why even diverging platforms can't still support an openamiga standard?

The Standard will continue to be revised and improved and even somthing as simple as SDL (with it's supported OpenGL 3D system) support suddenly opens up loads of new games!!

Unix should have died yeas ago, but look at all the unixoids out there!!! and they are all pretty much source code compatible... why can't the Amiga have somthing similar?

 :-)

[yssing]

Maybe do some sort of Dev package, where alle those tools are collected.
MOS, AOS and AROS.
Maybe do some sort of proggy, that can help with development, ie. some sort of visual tool for GUI, (could generate C code). Have a look at RapidQ for Windows, this is how things should be done, IMHO.
Just use C instead of basic

Other Libs could be a standard, and easy to use, lib to handle different soundformats, pictureformats and anims.

While we are at it, some basic 3D stuff, that uses OpenGL, but adds some more, and easy to use functions, such as texture blending, different effects, (fire, water etc.)

[redrumloa]

Admittedly I have not been following the thread or any of this at all. Still this is my thoughts.

You all are wasting your time discussing this. Why? AmigaOS standards from this point on will be defined by Hyperion Entertainment and ONLY Hyperion Entertainment. Nothing wrong with that, they are the ones who have their livelyhood tied into it. Likewise MorphOS standards will be defined by Genesi and or the MOS team, just like above nothing wrong with this.

[System]

AmigaOS standards from this point on will be defined by Hyperion Entertainment and ONLY Hyperion Entertainment

.........and OpenAmiga standards from this point on wil be defined by the APPLICATION DEVELOPERS and ONLY the APPLICATION DEVELOPERS.

No apps, no platform. Simple as.

So if we set up this standard, more apps for a three platforms and any other OpenAmiga compliant platforms in the future.

Who's to say an OpenAmiga compliant environment can't be created on Linux/Windows/BeOS years from now.

You get me now?

[bloodline]

The point of this is to consolidate the fact that all Three OS porjects have quite a high degree of compatibility.

It surely makes sense to define the specification for this compatibility and allow developers a minimum spec to allow quick and easy porting of software across the OS's thus increasing the software base, userbase and developer base.

There also been some disscusion as to the possiblity of Binary compatibility on the same CPUs... this has obvious advantages, for everyone.

[System]

.........and OpenAmiga standards from this point on wil be defined by the APPLICATION DEVELOPERS and ONLY the APPLICATION DEVELOPERS

I *hate* playing devil's advocate here, I really do.  One thing you are all forgetting is that Amiga Inc has a long, documented history of zealously threatening people who "encroach" on their trademarks and IP.  

They (Amiga Inc, Hyperion, or Eyetech) will, unless I am mistaken (which is possible) see any attempts to design an Open Amiga architecture as a threat to their existence.  After all, they're not getting paid for it, right?

That being said, I sincerely hope this initiative continues and is wildly successful.   We NEED something community driven to build a basis for real, open, thriving future development.  Amiga.org will gladly donate any resources we can to this project to see it succeed.  

We have seen what closed-development and proprietary dongled systems get us...  Let's get back to heading towards the future.

[System]

Thanks Wayne! :-D

I've been thinking about AInc and the litigation gene that they seem to have, and I think we'll be ok.

We are not using any IP,copyrighted or trademarked stuff.  Just telling people that if they want to have software that is easily ported, they should comply to this minimum spec.

and openamiga is one word, so we aren't using their trade mark Amiga either. ;-)

If they did decide to try and sue us, who would they go after, me? matt? every developer that writes apps that conform to the spec?

The community would not be impressed by them either, and it would be the final nail in their coffin IMNSHO.

Can you imagine it?

A company suing an collection of developers that are actually promoting for FREE said companies product?  Not even AInc are that stupid. Are they?!?!?!? ;-)

[System]

@mdma,

Glad you seem to have thought of everything.  Just be aware that they traditionally consider anything with the word Amiga in it to belong to them.  I see your point about developing an open concept.  Amazingly, this is what Amiga Inc promised and failed to do since 2000.  Before responding to that, realize that it's not a dig against Amiga Inc.

But... in McEwen's FIRST appearance as CEO (circa 2000), one of his first promises was an open architecture so that many manufacturers could write to it.  

What we ended up with is a closed-architecture, proprietary, dongle-driven system by Eyetech and Hyperion.  I am NOT suggesting that that's either a good, or bad thing, but like so many things that Amiga Inc has promised us through the years, I consider this yet another promise unfulfilled.

Not even AInc are that stupid. Are they?!?!?!?

Before I, or any color troll get started off on this tangent, let me stop you right there with a basic "no comment". :-)